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readytotaxi
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The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:35 pm

Just shows what you can do with third world corruption. :shakehead:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-afri ... -countries

But three years after it opened it is operating at only 4% of its capacity.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:54 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Just shows what you can do with third world corruption. :shakehead:

I think you are being a bit harsh;
A satellite view from last month shows the apron packed with seven assorted GA types, two biz-jets, and six (out of 8) MiG-21
Plus one, two, three, four...five cars in the public car park.
And the control tower looks epic. :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SR380
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:03 pm

I think you're a bit harsh indeed. The airport has been built hoping it would boost tourism in the region and benefit the people. There has been airport project all over the world that were projected to be vast and ended-up empty. Look at Mirabel Airport Masterplan in Canada. It never got to be as big as planned as no one could have predicted that cross Atlantic stop over would not be necessary no more. Look at Ciudad Real, same story...
 
airbazar
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:14 pm

ONLY $200m for a brand new airport? Are you kidding me? I'll take 5 please.
Yes there is a lot of corruption in Africa and other places, but this is not where I would hang my hat on for that issue. Plus Nacala has phenomenal beaches and huge tourism potential, with nearby Island of Mozambique being a UNESCO World Heritage Site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Mozambique)
 
oldannyboy
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:25 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Just shows what you can do with third world corruption. :shakehead:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-afri ... -countries

But three years after it opened it is operating at only 4% of its capacity.


Well, it's not a problem of just "third world" countries...the world is full of 'extravagant' airport projects, some of which may take decades to finally take-off, and some of which never actually get to fulfill their intended role....
Slow news day @ the BBC me thinks....
 
chiki
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:41 pm

This airport is a big mess, it is very unnecessary. You have
-Pemba POL 200km to the north, has daily flights to JNB with SA Airlink and LAM, Flight to DAR and NAIrobi
-Nampula - NPL 200km to the west has daily flights to JNB with SA Ailink and LAM Fliths to Dar and NAIROBI with LAM and KQ
Heard rumors that they want to get all international flights to there and then onward POL and NPL
The Moz economony is too small to cater for this, there are only 3 widebody flights into Maputo ie TAP, QR and TK and i doubt there is justification for the very long runway.
lets see how it goes when the the oil and gas starts maybe helps with logistics, but there is a thriving port
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:17 pm

If you're looking for airports that were a waste of money I'd like to add Mid-America in Belleville, IL to that list please.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:52 pm

airbazar wrote:
ONLY $200m for a brand new airport? Are you kidding me? I'll take 5 please.

Quite. It's remarkable that they're getting it that cheap for a complete airport. :dollarsign:


chiki wrote:
This airport is a big mess, it is very unnecessary.

I'm a bit envious that others get a nice, new airport that they don't want while we have to scream and beg the government just to add a critically needed terminal and upgrade deteriorated airport systems and facilities. :frown:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:56 pm

At least it's open and operating, unlike Berlin.
 
ScottB
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:41 pm

SR380 wrote:
I think you're a bit harsh indeed. The airport has been built hoping it would boost tourism in the region and benefit the people. There has been airport project all over the world that were projected to be vast and ended-up empty. Look at Mirabel Airport Masterplan in Canada. It never got to be as big as planned as no one could have predicted that cross Atlantic stop over would not be necessary no more. Look at Ciudad Real, same story...


I don't think that's harsh at all when one considers that $200 million is over 1% of Mozambique's GDP. The cost of Ciudad Real was under 0.1% of Spain's GDP (although I won't argue about the role of corruption in getting the Spanish banks to back that white elephant). The failure of Mirabel can be put to a number of factors, none of which would include the lack of appreciable demand in the Montreal area; rather, technological improvements, Canadian legal changes, the Quebecois independence movement, and, most importantly, the decision to not limit or close YUL all contributed to the YMX debacle.

airbazar wrote:
Plus Nacala has phenomenal beaches and huge tourism potential, with nearby Island of Mozambique being a UNESCO World Heritage Site


The Island of Mozambique isn't all that close and one literally drives past another airport on the way there. But more importantly, the airport they built is total overkill given the tourism infrastructure which exists or is likely to exist around Nacala in the short to medium term. It would have been far more cost-effective to build a less grandiose airport terminal (or even go with temporary structures) and put the money into resort hotel rooms and/or operating guarantees for carriers to operate flights from Europe to Nacala.
Last edited by ScottB on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:44 pm

Devilfish wrote:
airbazar wrote:
ONLY $200m for a brand new airport? Are you kidding me? I'll take 5 please.

Quite. It's remarkable that they're getting it that cheap for a complete airport. :dollarsign:
chiki wrote:
This airport is a big mess, it is very unnecessary.

I'm a bit envious that others get a nice, new airport that they don't want while we have to scream and beg the government just to add a critically needed terminal and upgrade deteriorated airport systems and facilities. :frown:

It's funny that you use the words "just to add a new terminal & upgrade deteriorated airport systems & facilities"
Guess what they have actually done in Mozambique..... a clue - it isn't a "brand new airport".

Who was it said "facts are precious things"?
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
BENAir01
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:00 pm

Devilfish wrote:
I'm a bit envious that others get a nice, new airport that they don't want while we have to scream and beg the government just to add a critically needed terminal and upgrade deteriorated airport systems and facilities. :frown:

May I ask what airport is your local one that you are begging for? I am genuinely interested.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
txjim
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:10 pm

N/M
 
aviationjunky
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 pm

From what the video showed, the airport looks nice. But it seems like they were looking for a reason to spend $200 million, so they built an airport that knew no one was going to use, especially with 2 perfectly good airports just 200km in either direction.
LAS is Life
 
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Devilfish
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:12 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
It's funny that you use the words "just to add a new terminal & upgrade deteriorated airport systems & facilities"

I was referring to and describing the airport situation in my country.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Guess what they have actually done in Mozambique..... a clue - it isn't a "brand new airport".

Nothing in the news report indicated it wasn't.


BENAir01 wrote:
May I ask what airport is your local one that you are begging for? I am genuinely interested.

MNL and CRK.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
airbazar
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:21 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
From what the video showed, the airport looks nice. But it seems like they were looking for a reason to spend $200 million, so they built an airport that knew no one was going to use, especially with 2 perfectly good airports just 200km in either direction.

Have you been to Mozambique? 200Km is a half day's travel by car.
 
travelhound
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:42 pm

chiki wrote:
This airport is a big mess, it is very unnecessary. You have
-Pemba POL 200km to the north, has daily flights to JNB with SA Airlink and LAM, Flight to DAR and NAIrobi
-Nampula - NPL 200km to the west has daily flights to JNB with SA Ailink and LAM Fliths to Dar and NAIROBI with LAM and KQ
Heard rumors that they want to get all international flights to there and then onward POL and NPL
The Moz economony is too small to cater for this, there are only 3 widebody flights into Maputo ie TAP, QR and TK and i doubt there is justification for the very long runway.
lets see how it goes when the the oil and gas starts maybe helps with logistics, but there is a thriving port


Yes, but who has ultimate control with those types of arrangements.

There is a very strong consensus that airports (and roads, ports and rail infrastructure for that matter) contribute to the economic prosperity for a region. As such, it is not unreasonable to suggest the airport was built for the benefit of the Mozambique communities it would serve.

I worked on airport projects all over the world. From where I sit the $200 million price tag for such a valuable asset should be, if not now well worth the investment into the future.

If we consider four landing slots at LHR would be worth a similar amount of money, there shouldn’t be too many questions about the cost pf this investment.
 
chiki
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:01 pm

airbazar wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:
From what the video showed, the airport looks nice. But it seems like they were looking for a reason to spend $200 million, so they built an airport that knew no one was going to use, especially with 2 perfectly good airports just 200km in either direction.

Have you been to Mozambique? 200Km is a half day's travel by car.

There are many operators like Solenta with props to take you to Nacala from NPL or POL. POL is quite vibrant with the oil and gas there are caravans and even an ATR42 based at the airport. The 200km by road to NPL is a very good modern road, 2.5hrs tops and POL will be 400km by road which is modern on 300km of the 400km so its 5hrs drive.
POL was recen6tly upgraded, i think part of the money could have been well spent upgrading NPL.
There have been recent scandals like EMATUM, US$1.5 billion used to buy fishing boats not approved by parliament
US$800,00 bride by Embrarer for the purchase of 3xE190 (remember C9 -EMC crashed)
so this will probably go on the list
 
chiki
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:03 pm

travelhound wrote:
chiki wrote:
This airport is a big mess, it is very unnecessary. You have
-Pemba POL 200km to the north, has daily flights to JNB with SA Airlink and LAM, Flight to DAR and NAIrobi
-Nampula - NPL 200km to the west has daily flights to JNB with SA Ailink and LAM Fliths to Dar and NAIROBI with LAM and KQ
Heard rumors that they want to get all international flights to there and then onward POL and NPL
The Moz economony is too small to cater for this, there are only 3 widebody flights into Maputo ie TAP, QR and TK and i doubt there is justification for the very long runway.
lets see how it goes when the the oil and gas starts maybe helps with logistics, but there is a thriving port


Yes, but who has ultimate control with those types of arrangements.

There is a very strong consensus that airports (and roads, ports and rail infrastructure for that matter) contribute to the economic prosperity for a region. As such, it is not unreasonable to suggest the airport was built for the benefit of the Mozambique communities it would serve.

I worked on airport projects all over the world. From where I sit the $200 million price tag for such a valuable asset should be, if not now well worth the investment into the future.

If we consider four landing slots at LHR would be worth a similar amount of money, there shouldn’t be too many questions about the cost pf this investment.

In Africa US$150 million could have been better spent somewhere else
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:23 pm

Nacala is just not an airport. It’s also a deep level sea port that was meant (I don’t know as of today) to serve the whole region through a road and rail connection. So building an airport was part of a bigger plan! It may have been misguided, but, it was part of a bigger plan!
 
ScottB
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm

travelhound wrote:
If we consider four landing slots at LHR would be worth a similar amount of money, there shouldn’t be too many questions about the cost pf this investment.


There is simply no rational equivalence between $200 million spent by an impoverished nation on an unneeded airport and LHR slots which for-profit companies purchase because their managers believe they can make an acceptable economic return from the use of those slots. Just building an airport doesn't make the tourists flood in -- the real need is for tourism infrastructure like resorts and activities which would also employ far more local residents than an empty airport.

Apparently the airfield already existed because the facility had been an airbase. A few million dollars spent on temporary buildings and the rest of the money invested in resorts and marketing in Europe/South Africa would have been a far better use of the funds.
 
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:33 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
At least it's open and operating, unlike Berlin.


Haha.

And at a fraction of the cost.
19:SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI BNA
 
nomadd22
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:42 pm

I was at a brand new international airport in Pisco last year with a total of 7 passengers for one Cessna there. It was brand new and I'm not sure how much business it has now.
Anon
 
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andrefranca
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:32 pm

I SWEAAAARRRR the first thing that came to my mind was: "probably built by a brazilian company implicated in scandal...." and BINGO... guys these tricks here are as old as time, we call them "superfaturamento" it means over-budgeting so everyone involved "wins"....
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:57 pm

airbazar wrote:
Have you been to Mozambique? 200Km is a half day's travel by car.


Thank you for including that bit of reality. Members that hail from the US often do quick math..... 200km / 120kmph (70mph).... and arrive at under 2 hours as the answer... It's just not that simple in allot of places. Quite often there are security checkpoints, construction, road failures, sections that pass through slow high populated areas, etc....
learning never stops.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:26 am

I dont think it was wrong to build new infrastructure that will provide economic benefits in the future. Infra takes years to develop and Mozambique now has a key part of infrastructure that will help when the next economic up-cycle begins.

They are having a stroke of bad luck with the downturn. That doesnt mean this was a bad investment or "corruption".
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
airbazar
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:58 am

ScottB wrote:
[
There is simply no rational equivalence between $200 million spent by an impoverished nation on an unneeded airport and LHR slots which for-profit companies purchase because their managers believe they can make an acceptable economic return from the use of those slots. Just building an airport doesn't make the tourists flood in -- the real need is for tourism infrastructure like resorts and activities which would also employ far more local residents than an empty airport..

And that is exactly what is happening but an airport was needed to bring those tourists. Yes $200m may be a bit much but it's Africa. Everything costs a lot more there :)
https://www.corallodgemozambique.com/
http://ossimbabeachlodge.com/
https://www.nuarro.com/
The airport is currently handling 20,000 annual passengers. Not a lot but it's 20,000 more than a few years ago.
 
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LIJet
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:57 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Just shows what you can do with third world corruption. :shakehead:

I think you are being a bit harsh;
A satellite view from last month shows the apron packed with seven assorted GA types, two biz-jets, and six (out of 8) MiG-21
Plus one, two, three, four...five cars in the public car park.
And the control tower looks epic. :lol:


The runways don't even have skid marks on them. The place looks brand new. :eyepopping:
 
aerogt3
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:57 am

SR380 wrote:
I think you're a bit harsh indeed. The airport has been built hoping it would boost tourism in the region and benefit the people.


You don't throw around 200M (which in a country like Mozambique is a LOT of money) on simple hopes. If the airport came in as being underused by 20% or whatever, you could claim margin of error in estimating passenger figures. But totally empty? Someone knew it wouldn't have the pax, but built it anyways. Just like Cuidad Real.
 
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keesje
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:28 am

There are many African countries with poor civil rights, few natural resources and extremist killing any development in the craddle. Mozambique apparently isn't one off them. Despite its past of colonialism and terrible civil wars.

-> Mozambique been one off the most successful countries of Africa over the last ten years. Not with help from "do what we ask" West, but the more practical capital rich Chinese. Mainly during the 2007-2014 global financial crisis.

Image

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/moz/
https://macauhub.com.mo/2017/03/17/chinese-investment-in-mozambique-is-close-to-us6-billion/
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
leghorn
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:41 am

airbazar wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:
From what the video showed, the airport looks nice. But it seems like they were looking for a reason to spend $200 million, so they built an airport that knew no one was going to use, especially with 2 perfectly good airports just 200km in either direction.

Have you been to Mozambique? 200Km is a half day's travel by car.

Congratulations, in contradicting him you identified some infrastructure that would have been more beneficial to the economy than an airport.
 
720B
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:28 pm

The airport was not brand new. It used to be a military airport; so runways and apron were already there. Money was probably spent on passenger terminal (work originally budgeted at US $ 80 million). Final tally more than doubled original price and now is not even used



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacala_Airport
 
airbazar
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:52 pm

720B wrote:
The airport was not brand new. It used to be a military airport; so runways and apron were already there. Money was probably spent on passenger terminal (work originally budgeted at US $ 80 million). Final tally more than doubled original price and now is not even used
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacala_Airport


Mozambique doesn't really have a "usable" or active air force so the chances that even the runway was in a usable state for commercial service are very slim. The fact that a satellite image shows a brand new runway, apron and taxiways is evidence enough that this is for all intents and purposes a brand new airport.
And it is used. Twice weekly to Maputo on LAM:
https://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSt ... 2017-12-11
And who knows how many private jets given the cost of some of the resorts around.
Was it overpriced? Yes. Was there corruption involved? More than likely. Is it oversized? Sure. Is it a "luxurious ghost" like the BBC report claims? Well, it has regular airline service, it does not have a parallel taxiway, and the terminal doesn't even have contact gates or passenger buses. It looks like a pretty bare bones airport to me. So i'm not sure what their definition of "luxurious ghost" airport is.
And I've also read that the airport's final cost was $144 million, not $200.
http://www.airport-world.com/news/gener ... ident.html
 
art
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:09 pm

Corruption reigns in many parts of the world. IIRC the football stadium built in Wembley cost £!00's million more than anticipated after consultants were hired in by the English football governing body. I wonder where the $120 million extra for the Nacalas airport went?

From the BBC article:

Nacalas International Airport has also been caught up in a corruption scandal involving Brazilian contractor Odebrecht.

The company was responsible for the airport's construction, and admitted to having paid bribes to high level officials.
 
drdisque
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:26 pm

Firstly, the long runway is because it used to be an Air Force Base. Secondly, Mozambique is trying to become a beach destination for South Africans (and hopefully down the road, people from further away). It has already developed Inhanbame to do this. If the beaches around Nacala are any good, it stands a chance too. Remember how long some of the Mexican resorts took to develop. They've been trying to develop Huatulco for about 10 years now and it's just showing up on peoples' radar as a destination and Mexico has a lot of experience developing undeveloped coastline into resort areas.
 
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OA940
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:22 pm

Yeah and St. Louis is doing better...
A350/CSeries = bae
 
qf772
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:08 am

Australia could use some of that corruption to get Badgerys Creek up and running
Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines
 
alyusuph
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:04 am

BawliBooch wrote:
I dont think it was wrong to build new infrastructure that will provide economic benefits in the future. Infra takes years to develop and Mozambique now has a key part of infrastructure that will help when the next economic up-cycle begins.

They are having a stroke of bad luck with the downturn. That doesnt mean this was a bad investment or "corruption".


Absolutely! If $200 is expensive for Mozambique, then tell us what is the price of just one very modern fighter jet? It is time Africa starts to take its own development advice and invest in long term infrastructure and other development projects. And what is the price of one modern fighter jet, or the cost of launching one long range missile? At least Mozambique chose to invest in an airport for the future at just $200 million and not in fighter jets or missiles.
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
ETinCaribe
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:36 am

$200M could be high or low, the important metric is to look at the direct and indirect returns on the investment. I agree with many posters, corruption is a global problem and it should be fought. Yes, Mozambique needs airports but it should not come at the expense of the public funds being squandered on corruption. Hopefully, all involved will be held to account.

<Cheap shot> The Chinese would have done it for half the price, including kickbacks :) </Cheap shot>
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: The $200m "Ghost" airport in Mozambique.

Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:37 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Just shows what you can do with third world corruption. :shakehead:


[cough]berlin[cough]

readytotaxi wrote:
But three years after it opened it is operating at only 4% of its capacity.


At least it opened... ;)

Edit: note to self, open comment box in a separate window and skim rest of thread before replying...
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