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williamenglish
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YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:44 pm

Am I the only one who thinks DUB-YHZ seasonal twice weekly for EI with an A32X.... I'm not sure if their current fleet is ETOPS certified, but rest assured their 321LRs will be. I think this would be a perfect option, there is lots of O/D traffic in the summer.

Also, although FI already serves KEF-YHZ on a 752 seasonally, the route does very well and I'd like to see WW test the waters and throw an A321 on the same route. I think its just a matter of time before this is announced.

I could also see AC offering 7M8 service YHZ-FRA within the next few years, maybe switch YHZ-LHR to the 7M8 also, but would prefer to see it go to the 788.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:49 pm

Considering that YHZ doesn't even have service to many of the largest cities in its own continent (and even its own home county), it's incredibly fortunate to have the amount of European/international service that it already does.

I get that the Maritimes have funny travel patterns, but I still wouldn't look for much intercon expansion from a N.American destination that doesn't even have year-round service to YVR, or any service at all to the likes of LAX, SFO, ORD, ATL, etc.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
RJNUT
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm

did ASL France operate the YHZ-DUB-ORY this past summer? as I recall it did two years ago once per week for about 5 weeks
 
TWA902fly
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:15 pm

When it comes down to it, Halifax is a small city, with a small metro area. One of the biggest reasons it has service to Europe is it's proximity to Europe compared to other metros in North America. As a matter of fact, Halifax's metro area population is #13 in Canada. And that's behind places like London, ON, Ktchener, Hamilton, etc. (source: Statistics Canada). For comparison with the US, this is the same size as places like Myrtle Beach, Lansing, and Reno. So - I agree with other people, Halifax is lucky to have the service that it does have.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
ghYHZ
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:53 pm

Perhaps Air Canada’s inflight magazine….enRoute had already let the cat out of the bag before it’s announced….but the route map shows a line between YHZ and FRA…so I’m guessing a new ‘737MAX route for summer ’18.

Condor already flies FRA/MUC to YHZ

ASL Airlines served YHZ-DUB-CDG in summer 2107…but I don’t see it loaded yet for 2018
 
Speedalive
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:58 pm

I doubt YHZ will see much more transatlantic expansion other than maybe YHZ-FRA with the 7M8 along with a down-gauge on the LHR route. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though!
LAX772LR wrote:
Considering that YHZ doesn't even have service to many of the largest cities in its own continent (and even its own home county), it's incredibly fortunate to have the amount of European/international service that it already does.

I get that the Maritimes have funny travel patterns, but I still wouldn't look for much intercon expansion from a N.American destination that doesn't even have year-round service to YVR, or any service at all to the likes of LAX, SFO, ORD, ATL, etc.

I don't think there will be service to YVR from YHZ in the near future. It wouldn't make sense operationally. They have numerous flights to YYZ and YUL with several connection opportunities and they even have seasonal Rouge service to YYC. I think that's sufficient enough. I could see some expansion with the introduction of the Cseries though.
 
stratocruiser
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:06 pm

williamenglish wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks DUB-YHZ seasonal twice weekly for EI with an A32X.... I'm not sure if their current fleet is ETOPS certified, but rest assured their 321LRs will be. I think this would be a perfect option, there is lots of O/D traffic in the summer.


I wondered a few years ago if EI would consider Halifax if they ever expanded their 757 fleet, although at 2,500nm it might have even been within range of their existing A320s, some of which, at least, are ETOPS certified. I would certainly agree that it should be a good option for the 321LRs and I would think that in addition to O/D traffic there should also be potential for significant transit traffic from the UK regions and Europe. Halifax may be a small city but St Johns is even smaller and it has successfully supported a daily 737-700 summer schedule to Dublin for the past few seasons. If a small Newfoundland city can do it then the Nova Scotia/ New Brunswick area should also have the potential to generate significant tourist traffic.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:10 pm

THe only way that I can think that one could expand the connections between Halifax and Europe is if Halifax becomes a mini-hub for the Maritime provinces, eastern Quebec and northeastern US, (primarily Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire). If you could fly to Europe via Halifax seamlessly from the various communities within this area, it may work...
 
ghYHZ
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:12 pm

stratocruiser wrote:
St Johns is even smaller and it has successfully supported a daily 737-700 summer schedule to Dublin for the past few seasons....


Plus daily in summer to Gatwick on Westjet along with the year ‘round Air Canada service to Heathrow.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:43 pm

[url][/url]
ghYHZ wrote:
stratocruiser wrote:
St Johns is even smaller and it has successfully supported a daily 737-700 summer schedule to Dublin for the past few seasons....


Plus daily in summer to Gatwick on Westjet along with the year ‘round Air Canada service to Heathrow.


The DUB and LGW routes also start in YYZ and YOW so that helps....
 
gunnerman
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:54 pm

ghYHZ wrote:
Perhaps Air Canada’s inflight magazine….enRoute had already let the cat out of the bag before it’s announced….but the route map shows a line between YHZ and FRA…so I’m guessing a new ‘737MAX route for summer ’18.

Condor already flies FRA/MUC to YHZ

ASL Airlines served YHZ-DUB-CDG in summer 2107…but I don’t see it loaded yet for 2018

DE flies FRA-YHZ in the summer, it will be three times a week from 2 June 2018 to 27 September 2018.

There are no ASL flights loaded for next summer.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:25 am

Speedalive wrote:
I don't think there will be service to YVR from YHZ in the near future. It wouldn't make sense operationally.

They already have YVR seasonal service, and there hasn't been any indication that it won't return next season.....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
bmacleod
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:32 pm

Speedalive wrote:
I doubt YHZ will see much more transatlantic expansion other than maybe YHZ-FRA with the 7M8 along with a down-gauge on the LHR route. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though!

I don't think there will be service to YVR from YHZ in the near future. It wouldn't make sense operationally. They have numerous flights to YYZ and YUL with several connection opportunities and they even have seasonal Rouge service to YYC. I think that's sufficient enough. I could see some expansion with the introduction of the Cseries though.


7M8s don't have the cargo space for YHZ-LHR's cargo market. 788s are much more likely even if AC needs to lease more of them - until then the 767s are staying put on YHZ-LHR.

AC used to have a one stop YHZ-YVR flight back 15 years ago on a 767 (YHZ-YYZ-YVR) - why it was discontinued is a mystery.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
ghYHZ
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:34 pm

There's been transatlantic service from YHZ since 1960. Beginning with a a TCA Super Constellation....than DC-8 > DC-8 Stretch > L-1011 and B-767 since the early '90s.

CP Air had B-747s and DC-10s to Amsterdam
KLM also had B-747s and DC-10s to Amsterdam (Martinair took over this route with B-767s)
 
Dominion301
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:07 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Speedalive wrote:
I doubt YHZ will see much more transatlantic expansion other than maybe YHZ-FRA with the 7M8 along with a down-gauge on the LHR route. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though!

I don't think there will be service to YVR from YHZ in the near future. It wouldn't make sense operationally. They have numerous flights to YYZ and YUL with several connection opportunities and they even have seasonal Rouge service to YYC. I think that's sufficient enough. I could see some expansion with the introduction of the Cseries though.


7M8s don't have the cargo space for YHZ-LHR's cargo market. 788s are much more likely even if AC needs to lease more of them - until then the 767s are staying put on YHZ-LHR.

AC used to have a one stop YHZ-YVR flight back 15 years ago on a 767 (YHZ-YYZ-YVR) - why it was discontinued is a mystery.


AC are planning on keeping at least 5 763s in the mainline fleet for years to come. So long as they do, YHZ-LHR and YOW-LHR/FRA will remain as 763s. No city the size of YHZ in North America has such an incredible amount of transatlantic service as Halifax does. Trust me as someone from YOW (with a population 3 times the size of YHZ), I'm incredibly jealous of their transatlantic offering. The 737 MAX/321 LR will finally afford YOW the opportunities the 319/73G have afforded YHZ and YYT to Europe.
 
lakeeffect
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:31 pm

I wouldn’t consider Halifax to be overserved to Europe based on its population. If population was a limiting factor for Europe service, all those tiny Caribbean islands with populations a fraction of the size of Nova Scotia would have no service to Europe at all. Nova Scotia has considerable tourist appeal in the summer and its flights to Europe reflect that.
 
Speedalive
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:29 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Speedalive wrote:
I don't think there will be service to YVR from YHZ in the near future. It wouldn't make sense operationally.

They already have YVR seasonal service, and there hasn't been any indication that it won't return next season.....

I had to check that one. I didn't realize Westjet did it now.. interesting. In my head I was thinking more about AC and I still stand by what I said relative to AC.
Last edited by Speedalive on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 am

Metro Halifax has just under a half-million today but when I was a kid in the 70's it had about 250K in the metro and there was still AC nonstop DC-8 service to LHR, which we did often. In the winter the AC service stopped at Gander and Prestwick, hence long history of service to Europe. Travel patterns are odd in the Maritimes, people tend to go to the UK often, there are deep cultural and historic ties plus it's very common to hop over to the UK, flight is shorter than to the west coast and the 4hr time difference is equal to that of Vancouver.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:42 am

Speedalive wrote:
interesting. In my head I was thinking more about AC and I still stand by what I said relative to AC.

Sure, though I've no idea what the point of such a statement actually is, considering that the airport isn't at the mercy of AC or anything.

Especially seeing as more than 90% of the growth in that airport since 2005 has come from WS and other airlines.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
CRJ900
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:17 am

Could YHZ be a new KEF, with AC/Rouge/WestJet/AirTransat flying B7M8/9/10 and A321 Europe-YHZ-North America? Perhaps with offering stop-over in Halifax for a night or two.

I visited Halifax in 2008 and thought it was a very nice city, I assume it has developed even more since then. We then took the overnight train The Ocean from Halifax to Montreal - loved it.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Speedalive
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:37 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Sure, though I've no idea what the point of such a statement actually is, considering that the airport isn't at the mercy of AC or anything.

There is no point to be found so don’t try looking. Half way through my original post my focus shifted to AC cause I can’t keep myself on topic to save my life and in doing so my post didn’t make sense and wasn’t factual. So I’m simply saying that my original post applies to AC, otherwise it’s incorrect...
 
CHI2DFW
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:34 am

Let’s see YVR, ORD, DTW, etc. before going after Europe.
 
Tenbru73
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:19 am

I don't think you'll see much more exotic euro destinations to Halifax except maybe Amsterdam???
If anything it'll be more frequency to the big hub destinations they already have. Maybe AC will add a FRA with 737max someday (the Condor flights are always full better than LHR loads).

I work for customs and see the type of traveler flying to/from Halifax.
-The FRA and KEF flights are 50 percent German travelers because they own a lot of property in NS and maritimes.
-The GLA flight is 80percent people connecting to Ontario and out West.
-Atlantic Canada (especially NS and NFLD) has a large population of folks working offshore oil fields (around Scotland, Netherlands and Africa) plus the military/Navy folks. Their work pays the full fares on AC LHR.
Oh and lots of lobster filling the hold on LHR.
-ASL had better loads this year than the last but still didn't look like a money maker.
-The WestJet Boston is always full and folks connecting the WORLD thru Boston. I could see a second flight being added.
-AC Boston is straight up people only going to BOS for business or shopping.
-PHL was a very popular flight (when we had it). It had great loads and certainly could support twice a day. A lot of military and government officials were on it.
 
bmacleod
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:59 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
AC are planning on keeping at least 5 763s in the mainline fleet for years to come. So long as they do, YHZ-LHR and YOW-LHR/FRA will remain as 763s. No city the size of YHZ in North America has such an incredible amount of transatlantic service as Halifax does. Trust me as someone from YOW (with a population 3 times the size of YHZ), I'm incredibly jealous of their transatlantic offering. The 737 MAX/321 LR will finally afford YOW the opportunities the 319/73G have afforded YHZ and YYT to Europe.


With population at just over a million not to mention capital of Canada I still can't understand why YOW doesn't have any European carriers - is it a lack of marketing/planning efforts?

Halifax YHZ has less than half Ottawa's population and it has 2 European carriers - Condor and ASL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Stanfield_International_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations

Are there any plans to attract European carriers to YOW?

YOW is only capital of G7 nations not to have any European carriers - doesn't that seem strange?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
gunnerman
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:17 pm

AC has a daily flight to LHR using 763s and WS will commence daily summer flights to LGW on 5 May 2018 until 20 October 2018 using 73Ws. The market isn't big enough for another carrier.
 
Dominion301
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:04 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
AC are planning on keeping at least 5 763s in the mainline fleet for years to come. So long as they do, YHZ-LHR and YOW-LHR/FRA will remain as 763s. No city the size of YHZ in North America has such an incredible amount of transatlantic service as Halifax does. Trust me as someone from YOW (with a population 3 times the size of YHZ), I'm incredibly jealous of their transatlantic offering. The 737 MAX/321 LR will finally afford YOW the opportunities the 319/73G have afforded YHZ and YYT to Europe.


With population at just over a million not to mention capital of Canada I still can't understand why YOW doesn't have any European carriers - is it a lack of marketing/planning efforts?

Halifax YHZ has less than half Ottawa's population and it has 2 European carriers - Condor and ASL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Stanfield_International_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations

Are there any plans to attract European carriers to YOW?

YOW is only capital of G7 nations not to have any European carriers - doesn't that seem strange?


Well ASL is on 73Gs, which is impossible to reach Europe on from YOW. YOW has had several European airlines in the past, namely TCX, KL and Jes Air A310s to SOF via JFK (anyone remember them?). I fully expect either FI or WOW will be here eventually.

Does the YOW Airport Authority's air service development "underperform" to say the least? You bet!

gunnerman wrote:
AC has a daily flight to LHR using 763s and WS will commence daily summer flights to LGW on 5 May 2018 until 20 October 2018 using 73Ws. The market isn't big enough for another carrier.


The market is plenty big enough for another carrier. HOWEVER, until now there hasn't been any suitable aircraft types available to match supply and demand. We've seen what the 73G/319 has done for Atlantic Canada. The MAX and 321LR make YOW reachable on a 150-170 seat narrowbody.

gunnerman wrote:
AC has a daily flight to LHR using 763s and WS will commence daily summer flights to LGW on 5 May 2018 until 20 October 2018 using 73Ws. The market isn't big enough for another carrier.


Yeah but that's a 1-stop thru YYT. We'll see if WS will MAX YOW-LGW nonstop in the next couple of years.
 
3ingreen
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Don't forget that YHZ also has Icelandair 3xwk from May to Oct .......YOW is much like YQB in that it is too close to major airports and so the airlines and consumers for that matter focus on mostly the majors to do their flying .....
 
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shamrock604
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Re: YHZ Possible new Europe routes

Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:52 pm

EI did in fact give serious consideration to Halifax with the A320 as recently as 2 years ago.. but I guess they’ve decided to wait for the more capable A321neo.

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