Flanker7
Posts: 334
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:27 am

Amsterdam wrote:
This is a prohibition.
It is not talked over with the KLM pilots.

This is purely done to make a low-cost carrier of KLM is the future, like Transavia. This is one of the things to get the pilots used to going that route.

With the greatly increase of violence on board and at airports, making pilots look more like everyone else is a stupid idea.

After 98 years this one-sided prohibition is a disgrace.


Removing the cap from the uniform is the route to low-cost?? I fail to see how these two connect. As for violence on board or airport the cap is not the holygrail, a lot a people these days have no respect for authority regardless what you wear. Authority is what you command and I've seen a lot of people in full uniform with cap getting blown away by some aggressive person.
Flying blue only if possible
 
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vhtje
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:04 pm

eidvm wrote:
Add to that a very easy way to identify crew in the event of an evacuation, and adds an air of authority in survival situations. A short sighted move getting rid of the pilot hats.


Are you a fan of John Finnemore's Cabin Pressure, by any chance?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lmcxj

Your post is almost a direct quote from Episode 6, Series 1 of the programme! Note: I am not accusing you of plagiarism or anything like that. If you do not know the programme, it is highly recommended. Very, very funny.

Back on topic: I think I prefer the crew to wear hats. It makes crew stand out, e.g. in the terminal. Otherwise they will just look like any business person in a suit.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:36 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Image

Damn, who's that on the right? ........they should put him in their promotional material! :-D


Wow, yeah, indeed...those biceps scream porn..!
 
MartijnNL
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:29 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
This is purely done to make a low-cost carrier of KLM is the future, like Transavia. This is one of the things to get the pilots used to going that route.

Not true. As I wrote earlier in this thread:

"KLM management wants pilots to interact more with passengers. It is thought that this improves the total travel experience for their customers. Normally the crew just walks past the waiting passengers at the gate without speaking to them. By removing the cap pilots are more easily to approach. Thereby giving them a chance to make KLM stand out compared to other airlines. And persuading passengers to book KLM again for future travels. (...)"

Amsterdam wrote:
With the greatly increase of violence on board and at airports, making pilots look more like everyone else is a stupid idea.

The uniform stays. It's just the cap that is removed. And when do you see pilots in the cabin? Usually they lock themselves up in the cockpit the entire flight.

Amsterdam wrote:
After 98 years this one-sided prohibition is a disgrace.

This is just common sense.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:19 pm

Good decision, caps are a fashion thing of the past. As the world changes, time to move on.

chiki wrote:
As a frequent flier i think thats unacceptable, we need our pilots with their caps, its just give the passengers a degree of confirdence
1. Do you want your president to address the nation in tee-shirts and jeans, or your lawyer to come to court in t-shirt and jeans


That's not relevant because the pilots will not go to work in jeans. The uniform stays, just the cap will disappear.

On a side note: sometimes the Prime Minister of the Netherlands goes to work in jeans.

scbriml wrote:
I was going to say "Who cares?" but clearly some do, which I find pretty odd. Passengers used to wear suits and fur coats as well, but it's not the 1940s any more.


:checkmark:
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BREECH
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:27 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Normally the crew just walks past the waiting passengers at the gate without speaking to them. By removing the cap pilots are more easily to approach.

Why? (uncomprehensible rant commences) The LAST thing I want from a pilot is to "interact" with me. Yes, I want them to speak up in turbulence and tell me that they noticed it and are doing something to stop it, and I won't mind a greeting from the captain. But other than that, I want them to FULLY concentrate on the upcoming flight and not be distracted by hugging babies. I want to see them being focused. I want them to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator, not Kindergarten Cop. Actually, I don't care which as long as they look like Arny. I also wouldn't mind T-shirts saying "I don't even know how to spell Velheusen van Zanten". (rant over)

I remember when KLM served dinner on china plates with SILVERware. That would make me book more flights with them. Taking the hats off and yapping with passengers really doesn't make any difference to me. I KNOW it's false. I also know that pilots have VERY tough jobs and burdening them with marketing BS would make it unnecessarily tougher. What's next, a belly dance midflight? (NOW it's REALLY over)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:31 pm

76er wrote:
And that double breasted uniform, did anyone forget to tell DL that the '90 are, well, the '90..

And you want them to wear those "slim fit" jackets? I like double-breasted suits. They make a man look like a man, not some flimsy boi-toy who just got out of Dolce and Gabbana's bed.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
cpd
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:04 am

KLDC10 wrote:
Although I'm a big fan of KLM, I'm very disappointed to read about this decision. I don't want pilots to look "modern and accessible", I want them to look authoritative and respectable.


How they look to me is of less importance than their abilities to operate an aircraft in a safe and professional manner. Looking the part means nothing if you've not got the abilities to back it up.

BREECH wrote:
And you want them to wear those "slim fit" jackets? I like double-breasted suits.


You should really wear what fits properly. That means having some options, normal fit, slim fit and a "generous" fit for those that need it. Anything more than slim fit for me won't fit properly - looks very unprofessional.

Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten clearly looked the part, and look what happened there. Just fly the plane, and fly it well.
Last edited by cpd on Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
glfblz59
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:07 am

A CAPT., is a CAPT, and, shall always be a CAPT. Sully Sullenberger didn't have his hat, while making sure everyone exited
the airplane on the Hudson. But, I do think a CAPT. should wear that part of the uniform, always.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:18 am

Donning my "snowflake hat" for a minute, I would argue that a pilot's hat symbolizes patriarchal authority over women. Though women have worn pilots hats for years, they still look as though they have decided to do drag when they wear them as the design of the pilot's hat has traditionally been a symbol of masculine authority. The hat seems to be a relic of WWII and is featured in a number of military movies where it is worn by many officers in charge, including those of the SS and the Red Army. It is therefore hard not to associate the hat with men and particularly men in charge. I would say that if we want more equality for the sexes that we should get rid of the hats so every pilot can wear a uniform that would work for any gender. I also think flight attendants should have a pants/flats option in flight as skirts and heels now look quite old-fashioned, but that's a different topic.
 
BREECH
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:53 pm

cpd wrote:
Just fly the plane, and fly it well.

Exactly! Here's a new slogan for the KLM pilots union: "No distraction by interaction". Geen afleiding door intera... it doesn't work in Dutch, does it?
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
flyguy89
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:18 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Donning my "snowflake hat" for a minute, I would argue that a pilot's hat symbolizes patriarchal authority over women. Though women have worn pilots hats for years, they still look as though they have decided to do drag when they wear them as the design of the pilot's hat has traditionally been a symbol of masculine authority.

*Also dons snowflake hat* :D I think you're projecting your own gender-normative biases here, that just because the hat has traditionally been worn by men that it somehow looks out-of-place (or as drag) for women.
 
petertenthije
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 pm

BREECH wrote:
it doesn't work in Dutch, does it?

Wordt niet afgeleid, door HR beleid.
Geen afleiding door verleiding ;)
Attamottamotta!
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:26 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
Donning my "snowflake hat" for a minute, I would argue that a pilot's hat symbolizes patriarchal authority over women. Though women have worn pilots hats for years, they still look as though they have decided to do drag when they wear them as the design of the pilot's hat has traditionally been a symbol of masculine authority.

*Also dons snowflake hat* :D I think you're projecting your own gender-normative biases here, that just because the hat has traditionally been worn by men that it somehow looks out-of-place (or as drag) for women.


You could say the same thing about men wearing dresses, yet most men never wear them. Women also rarely wear ties unless they want to appear more masculine. Some clothing will always be associated with a given gender, even if people of any gender are free to wear it.
 
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RetroRoo
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:39 pm

To me it's a privilege to wear the cap, it signifies that you've worked incredibly hard to qualify to do the job. It's not like airlines make pilots wear it whilst flying. Just like the epaulettes it's a symbol of achievement and seniority, and as a passenger it's a comforting thing to see a professional uniform on a qualified pilot.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:34 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
This is purely done to make a low-cost carrier of KLM is the future, like Transavia. This is one of the things to get the pilots used to going that route.

Not true. As I wrote earlier in this thread:

"KLM management wants pilots to interact more with passengers. It is thought that this improves the total travel experience for their customers. Normally the crew just walks past the waiting passengers at the gate without speaking to them. By removing the cap pilots are more easily to approach. Thereby giving them a chance to make KLM stand out compared to other airlines. And persuading passengers to book KLM again for future travels.



This is not true at all.
They have no research to back this up. They have not done it.
They can’t back this up with facts and research that states that customers want this measure.
I have heard most “customers” say the opposite actually.

That whole text doesn’t make sense.
They say “it is thought”. By who? By some manager behind his desk? They have no research.
Then they say they want to stand out, but they also claim that they follow a trend. So they don’t want to stand out, if they are following a trend. That’s literally what they say in the dutch publication of it. That’s a pure contradiction.
And what trend anyway? The easyjet ryanair trend?

It’s pure nonsense. Guessing that customers will book again because the captain was not wearing a hat. It’s laughable.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:37 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
This is a prohibition.
It is not talked over with the KLM pilots.

This is purely done to make a low-cost carrier of KLM is the future, like Transavia. This is one of the things to get the pilots used to going that route.

With the greatly increase of violence on board and at airports, making pilots look more like everyone else is a stupid idea.

After 98 years this one-sided prohibition is a disgrace.


Removing the cap from the uniform is the route to low-cost?? I fail to see how these two connect. As for violence on board or airport the cap is not the holygrail, a lot a people these days have no respect for authority regardless what you wear. Authority is what you command and I've seen a lot of people in full uniform with cap getting blown away by some aggressive person.


Who said anything about it being a holygrail?
You make that up yourself.
There are people who start violence against heavily armed commando’s... so what’s your point?

Even if it helps 10% of times or even 1% of time it’s great.


The KLM pilot uniform is without the hat basically the steward uniform with golden stripes.
And on the low-cost thing. Just look in Europe what airline pilot uniforms have hats and which dont.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:15 pm

BREECH wrote:
cpd wrote:
Just fly the plane, and fly it well.

Exactly! Here's a new slogan for the KLM pilots union: "No distraction by interaction". Geen afleiding door intera... it doesn't work in Dutch, does it?


What are you talking about?
Who are you to suggest slogans for whomever?
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 386
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:22 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Donning my "snowflake hat" for a minute, I would argue that a pilot's hat symbolizes patriarchal authority over women. Though women have worn pilots hats for years, they still look as though they have decided to do drag when they wear them as the design of the pilot's hat has traditionally been a symbol of masculine authority. The hat seems to be a relic of WWII and is featured in a number of military movies where it is worn by many officers in charge, including those of the SS and the Red Army. It is therefore hard not to associate the hat with men and particularly men in charge. I would say that if we want more equality for the sexes that we should get rid of the hats so every pilot can wear a uniform that would work for any gender.


Wow I have never read so much nonsense on airliners that even comes close to this right here

That’s even besides the fact that at KLM female pilots wear the same hat as the men and also have an option of another type of hat

Pure nonsense comment for multiple reasons
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 740
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
"KLM management wants pilots to interact more with passengers. It is thought that this improves the total travel experience for their customers. Normally the crew just walks past the waiting passengers at the gate without speaking to them. By removing the cap pilots are more easily to approach. Thereby giving them a chance to make KLM stand out compared to other airlines. And persuading passengers to book KLM again for future travels.


Amsterdam wrote:
This is not true at all.

Why is this so hard for you to believe? It is true that KLM management wants pilots to interact more with passengers. Ryanne van der Eijk, senior vice president customer experience, talked about it in the April 2017 issue of Zakenreis Magazine.

Amsterdam' wrote:
They have no research to back this up. They have not done it. They can’t back this up with facts and research that states that customers want this measure.

KLM wants to be a more customer orientated company. In the past most decisions were based on rentability, operations and safety. Now they want to focus more on improving the total travel experience of their customers. It has nothing to do with research.

Amsterdam wrote:
That whole text doesn’t make sense.
They say “it is thought”. By who? By some manager behind his desk? They have no research.

By who? By KLM management of course. They think that more interacting with passengers helps to improve the total travel experience.

It is my personal opinion that removing the cap makes the flight crew more easily to approach.

Amsterdam wrote:
It’s pure nonsense. Guessing that customers will book again because the captain was not wearing a hat. It’s laughable.

That would indeed be laughable. But KLM is not guessing. As Ryanne van der Eijk said in the Zakenreis article: "Het gaat nu wel eens zo: voor een lange vlucht zitten 300 passagiers bij de gate te wachten. Daar komt 'de cockpit' aanlopen. Wat doet die? Straal langs die 300 mensen lopen om bij de balie nog even met KLM-collega's te praten. Hoe ingewikkeld is het om even verbinding te maken met hen, even met twee mensen een praatje te maken."
 
cpd
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:30 am

Amsterdam wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
Donning my "snowflake hat" for a minute, I would argue that a pilot's hat symbolizes patriarchal authority over women. Though women have worn pilots hats for years, they still look as though they have decided to do drag when they wear them as the design of the pilot's hat has traditionally been a symbol of masculine authority. The hat seems to be a relic of WWII and is featured in a number of military movies where it is worn by many officers in charge, including those of the SS and the Red Army. It is therefore hard not to associate the hat with men and particularly men in charge. I would say that if we want more equality for the sexes that we should get rid of the hats so every pilot can wear a uniform that would work for any gender.


Wow I have never read so much nonsense on airliners that even comes close to this right here

That’s even besides the fact that at KLM female pilots wear the same hat as the men and also have an option of another type of hat

Pure nonsense comment for multiple reasons


Never mind the fact that some women are chief pilots, or manage particular divisions of airlines. Or they are in control of the whole airline, thinking of Margaret Jackson AC who was Chairman of Qantas for a long time, also ran ANZ bank and was a partner in KPMG. A pilots hat is fairly meaningless in the face of that.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:58 am

MartijnNL wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
"KLM management wants pilots to interact more with passengers. It is thought that this improves the total travel experience for their customers. Normally the crew just walks past the waiting passengers at the gate without speaking to them. By removing the cap pilots are more easily to approach. Thereby giving them a chance to make KLM stand out compared to other airlines. And persuading passengers to book KLM again for future travels.


Amsterdam wrote:
This is not true at all.

Why is this so hard for you to believe? It is true that KLM management wants pilots to interact more with passengers. Ryanne van der Eijk, senior vice president customer experience, talked about it in the April 2017 issue of Zakenreis Magazine.

Amsterdam' wrote:
They have no research to back this up. They have not done it. They can’t back this up with facts and research that states that customers want this measure.

KLM wants to be a more customer orientated company. In the past most decisions were based on rentability, operations and safety. Now they want to focus more on improving the total travel experience of their customers. It has nothing to do with research.

Amsterdam wrote:
That whole text doesn’t make sense.
They say “it is thought”. By who? By some manager behind his desk? They have no research.

By who? By KLM management of course. They think that more interacting with passengers helps to improve the total travel experience.

It is my personal opinion that removing the cap makes the flight crew more easily to approach.

Amsterdam wrote:
It’s pure nonsense. Guessing that customers will book again because the captain was not wearing a hat. It’s laughable.

That would indeed be laughable. But KLM is not guessing. As Ryanne van der Eijk said in the Zakenreis article: "Het gaat nu wel eens zo: voor een lange vlucht zitten 300 passagiers bij de gate te wachten. Daar komt 'de cockpit' aanlopen. Wat doet die? Straal langs die 300 mensen lopen om bij de balie nog even met KLM-collega's te praten. Hoe ingewikkeld is het om even verbinding te maken met hen, even met twee mensen een praatje te maken."



I guess you can read Dutch, so you should understand that the English text and the Dutch state different things.

The English text reasons from the perspective of the customers, that they maybe dare to approach the pilots faster when they don’t wear a hat.

The Dutch text doesn’t even talk about a hat and critiques the KLM pilots for not making contact with the passengers more often before a flight.
She literally says: How difficult is it to make a little chat with two passengers at the gate?

What? She doesn’t know what she is talking about. Most of the times the pilots do 3 or 4 flights a day and are in a constant rush to get to their next aircraft.

Wide-body crews have more time before a flight and if they want to talk to passengers they can decide to do that. This has completely nothing to do with a hat.
Lufthansa, BA and Air France and Delta etc pilots can also do that with their hats.
It’s really a ridiculous “argument”

Further, it’s all filled with we think, they think, my opinion is etc.
There is no statistical evidence anywhere for what they think.

Plus, KLM pilots do make contact and show themselves especially in the case of delays etc. That Ryanne van something, shouldn’t talk so condescending about the pilots. KLM is not kept in the sky by someone who is sitting behind a desk thinking about uniform hats.

And like i said before, on one hand they want to stand out, and at the same time they say they are following a trend. Those two things can’t be at the same time.
 
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ThrottleHold
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:59 am

Turbofanfan wrote:

Cost cutting? Isn't an airliner's public image infinitely more valuable to them than the cost of a few hats can ever be? Aren't hats complete peanut crumbs on an airliner's budget anyway?

Welcome to the world of the airline bean counters!
All that matters to them is wringing out every last cent.

Those who know the cost of everything, yet the value of nothing.
 
BREECH
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:01 pm

petertenthije wrote:
BREECH wrote:
it doesn't work in Dutch, does it?

Wordt niet afgeleid, door HR beleid.
Geen afleiding door verleiding ;)

Looks like my Dutch needs improvement... or rather a start. :-)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
Posts: 615
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:04 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
What are you talking about?
Who are you to suggest slogans for whomever?

I am talking about a slogan for KLM and I am the United Nations Supreme Chief of Slogans for KLM.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
masseybrown
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:14 pm

airtran737 wrote:
It seems the way of the world. I am glad that at my company we have the option to still wear them if we choose to do so. I personally always wear mine, but many are adamantly against it.


If the wearer is bald, it's not an option; in winter and summer, it's a necessity. The airlines should keep the option available.
 
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scbriml
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:45 pm

BREECH wrote:
I remember when KLM served dinner on china plates with SILVERware. That would make me book more flights with them. Taking the hats off and yapping with passengers really doesn't make any difference to me. I KNOW it's false. I also know that pilots have VERY tough jobs and burdening them with marketing BS would make it unnecessarily tougher. What's next, a belly dance midflight? (NOW it's REALLY over)


BREECH wrote:
And you want them to wear those "slim fit" jackets? I like double-breasted suits. They make a man look like a man, not some flimsy boi-toy who just got out of Dolce and Gabbana's bed.


You are in great danger of sounding like a grumpy old git who lives in the past. :wink2:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
BREECH
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:31 pm

scbriml wrote:
You are in great danger of sounding like a grumpy old git who lives in the past. :wink2:

A compliment from you is a rare feat that I will treasure. I hardly qualify for old but I do take Smith&Wesson over Dolce&Gabbana. Happy days! :bomb:
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:17 am

Amsterdam wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
Donning my "snowflake hat" for a minute, I would argue that a pilot's hat symbolizes patriarchal authority over women. Though women have worn pilots hats for years, they still look as though they have decided to do drag when they wear them as the design of the pilot's hat has traditionally been a symbol of masculine authority. The hat seems to be a relic of WWII and is featured in a number of military movies where it is worn by many officers in charge, including those of the SS and the Red Army. It is therefore hard not to associate the hat with men and particularly men in charge. I would say that if we want more equality for the sexes that we should get rid of the hats so every pilot can wear a uniform that would work for any gender.


Wow I have never read so much nonsense on airliners that even comes close to this right here

That’s even besides the fact that at KLM female pilots wear the same hat as the men and also have an option of another type of hat

Pure nonsense comment for multiple reasons


I actually find it quite dumb that they have to wear the same hat as the men. The uniforms should be gender neutral as much as possible so everyone looks good in them. The women simply look awkward.
 
johns624
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:41 pm

Many pilots have to buy their own uniforms.
 
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PHBVF
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:45 pm

BREECH wrote:
I remember when KLM served dinner on china plates with SILVERware. That would make me book more flights with them. Taking the hats off and yapping with passengers really doesn't make any difference to me. I KNOW it's false. I also know that pilots have VERY tough jobs and burdening them with marketing BS would make it unnecessarily tougher. What's next, a belly dance midflight? (NOW it's REALLY over)


Actually in business class meals are served on plates and silverware
Licensed 777/787 driver
 
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Iemand91
Posts: 564
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:32 pm

A KLM 737 captain has started a petition to keep the hats: https://petities.nl/petitions/de-pet-mo ... ?locale=en
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
ukair
Posts: 269
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Re: KLM pilots will take their caps off

Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:41 am

a peaked cap is very useful to keep the sun out of your eyes especially on approach etc I would have thought sounds like a stupid decision

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Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos