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Channex757
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:32 pm

All this sounds to me like an abundance of caution, which is vital in aviation. By doing an engine swap in JNB the faulty motor is also preserved and can be torn down, diagnosed and then rebuilt to go back into the service pool.

A three engined ferry flight always has an element of uncertainty, especially one with all the extra issues of flying from a hot and high airport in the southern summer. Johannesburg is also hardly a backwater landing strip so if an engine swap is needed then it's one of the better African locations to be able to ship all BA/RR's engine swap team and their kit.

Airlines do not take chances with their prize assets and large numbers of valuable passengers. Nor should they ever. Some kind of lashed-together local repair may have been possible but it's better to go the long way round and preserve the faulty engine for a full teardown. That's good asset management.
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:13 pm

Fully acknowledge reason for long turnaround in JNB is commercially dictated as with all the other A380 destination on BA network. Apologies for poor wording. When 747 introduced on this route it was difficult in terms of a/c utilisation but fortunately offset by exceptionally high yields greatly assisted by BASAA Pool Agreements that historically kept capacity very tight.

Also observation about “asset” protection is valid given the variables involved. My only surprise is the length of time to get new engine in position and still this evening no sign of return to LHR. Obviously getting hold of the AN124 was problably the critical element as prior to positioning to STN it was in deepest Africa possibily on a military support operation for the French. Aircraft capable of accommodating the bulk of these engines are in short supply and fortunately rarely required ......these engines are remarkable in their overall reliability

Anyway hopefully normal operations for G-XLEA within a couple of days!
 
concordeforever
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:04 am

grjplanes wrote:
AirBoat wrote:
was on SA317 JNB-CT on 16 dec:
Saturday morning 16 dec there was a 787 parked next to the service hangar at cape town int airport. could not see the airline.
The BA A380 was parked at the service hangars opposite the domestic departures side of JNB airport


That would have been the DeerJet 787 that brought a group from HKG earlier the week, apparently on an excursion to Antarctica (with a different aircraft though)


I was in Cape Town last week and saw the Deer Jet 787 parked up on Friday. There was a Volga-Dnepr IL76 parked near the cargo ramp with a picture of a penguin on the side, so maybe they were taking that down to the Antarctic?
 
Planesmart
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:29 am

Channex757 wrote:
All this sounds to me like an abundance of caution, which is vital in aviation. By doing an engine swap in JNB the faulty motor is also preserved and can be torn down, diagnosed and then rebuilt to go back into the service pool.

A three engined ferry flight always has an element of uncertainty, especially one with all the extra issues of flying from a hot and high airport in the southern summer. Johannesburg is also hardly a backwater landing strip so if an engine swap is needed then it's one of the better African locations to be able to ship all BA/RR's engine swap team and their kit.

Airlines do not take chances with their prize assets and large numbers of valuable passengers. Nor should they ever. Some kind of lashed-together local repair may have been possible but it's better to go the long way round and preserve the faulty engine for a full teardown. That's good asset management.

You are correct.

A three engined ferry flight requires lots of boxes to be ticked, some of which will be difficult, and/or expensive, and if hull or engines are leased or have outstanding security interests, even more complex.

Just look at the processes for the DL low level farewell for the 747, and that's with 4 engines operating, and DL owned!
 
JAAlbert
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 am

readytotaxi wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
An-124 bring out spare motor from U.K.

Will BA send along MX team or use locals?


What is the cost to charter the An-124 and send BA's MX team to JNB to fix this bird? The flight alone must be several hundred thousand dollars. If you charter the An-124 for a one-way flight, are you also charged to fly the plane empty back to its base?
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:42 am

JAAlbert wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
An-124 bring out spare motor from U.K.

Will BA send along MX team or use locals?


What is the cost to charter the An-124 and send BA's MX team to JNB to fix this bird? The flight alone must be several hundred thousand dollars. If you charter the An-124 for a one-way flight, are you also charged to fly the plane empty back to its base?


The Antonov will bring back the broken engine.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:10 am

ScottB wrote:
BOAC1966 wrote:
strangely the JNB flights have the most by far with long turnaround time at outstation.


That's really not surprising at all; the red-eye in both the southbound and northbound directions is the most desirable service commercially (particularly because it is more likely to sell pricey business & first class seats). One sees the same service pattern in flights between North America and deep South America where aircraft sit all day long on the ramp at airports like GIG, GRU, and EZE.

Pellegrine wrote:
What I don't understand is why some people think the continent of Africa is a black hole from SA to Europe. You can hop, skip, and jump the whole way if need be, whether B747 or A380.


No, the continent of Africa isn't a black hole, but the number of airports in between with adequate facilities and appropriately-trained maintenance technicians is relatively small. You don't want to get the aircraft stuck somewhere where the difficulty of replacing an engine rises to the level of being at Goose Bay.


If you're hopscotching back to Europe you don't need billion-dollar airports and highly trained technicians on ground that you can't carry on the flight with you or in a support aircraft. You could go JNB-UTH-LAD/FIH-LOS/ACC-ALG-STN.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:12 pm

Understand from google search that an engine change can take the better part of 2.5 days! Is this correct? On that basis probably not returning until Thursday at best. Given Christmas peak it will be interesting to see if it operates an “extra” northbound if cabin crew logistics permit.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:33 pm

AirBoat wrote:
thanks for that ( apologies for off topic)
have not been on board for a while. how do I upload an image.
I have a nice foto of the a380 at jnb, but can not figure out how to attach it.


If you have a web-hosting service where you can upload to, or Flickr or the like, upload it there then provide the URL for the Image in tags like this: img /img Just use the square brackets "[ ]" around the letters: img and /img . Does this make sense?

It will appear in your post. You can "preview" to make sure it appears before you press "submit"

Moe
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CZ DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:35 pm

Still in JNB ...must be impacting flights to either SFO or LAX .... all her sisters hard at work tonight!
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:57 am

BOAC1966 wrote:
Understand from google search that an engine change can take the better part of 2.5 days! Is this correct? On that basis probably not returning until Thursday at best. Given Christmas peak it will be interesting to see if it operates an “extra” northbound if cabin crew logistics permit.

There may be a test hop required before the aircraft can carry paying passengers from JNB. I know in the past when an engine change was made at the airline I worked with a test hop was not always required. An engine run on the ground with the necessary adjustments and a max power test were usually adequate and recording the results of the engine run. However, the aircraft were not required to fly from a hot and thin air environment on an approximately 8000 flight over a thinly sparsed route with limited alternative airfields that can accommodate an A380 if an engine would fail. I think the aircraft would need to be ferried back to LHR just to prove it's airworthiness. Yes, it would be able to continue its flight with an engine out but have A380s done this in the past with passengers on it.
I also know British Airways has don e this in the past with a 747 but needed to land at an alternate airport due to low fuel levels in the aircraft. The only A380 that flew any amount of time with an engine failure was a Qantas aircraft that returned to Singapore in a nearly unflyable condition. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:00 am

NWAROOSTER wrote:
BOAC1966 wrote:
Understand from google search that an engine change can take the better part of 2.5 days! Is this correct? On that basis probably not returning until Thursday at best. Given Christmas peak it will be interesting to see if it operates an “extra” northbound if cabin crew logistics permit.

There may be a test hop required before the aircraft can carry paying passengers from JNB. I know in the past when an engine change was made at the airline I worked with a test hop was not always required. An engine run on the ground with the necessary adjustments and a max power test were usually adequate and recording the results of the engine run. However, the aircraft were not required to fly from a hot and thin air environment on an approximately 8000 flight over a thinly sparsed route with limited alternative airfields that can accommodate an A380 if an engine would fail. I think the aircraft would need to be ferried back to LHR just to prove it's airworthiness. Yes, it would be able to continue its flight with an engine out but have A380s done this in the past with passengers on it.
I also know British Airways has don e this in the past with a 747 but needed to land at an alternate airport due to low fuel levels in the aircraft. The only A380 that flew any amount of time with an engine failure was a Qantas aircraft that returned to Singapore in a nearly unflyable condition. :old:


Don’t forget about the AF A380 that recently flew 2 hours on a blown engine.
 
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neomax
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:22 am

NWAROOSTER wrote:
The only A380 that flew any amount of time with an engine failure was a Qantas aircraft that returned to Singapore in a nearly unflyable condition. :old:


The QF A380 had severed critical hydraulics and I'm pretty sure this one doesn't, otherwise it would definitely have made the news.
 
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CARST
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:58 am

ScottB wrote:
No, the continent of Africa isn't a black hole, but the number of airports in between with adequate facilities and appropriately-trained maintenance technicians is relatively small. You don't want to get the aircraft stuck somewhere where the difficulty of replacing an engine rises to the level of being at Goose Bay.


http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JNB-LHR%0D ... S=bm&DU=mi

You could stop in Casablanca (+7%), Addis (+10%) or Doha (+25%) for example. Indicated is always the mileage added for making the detour to that intermediate airport. Just wanting to point out that there are options available. Doha being the best I guess, despite adding the 25% to the flight time, A380 ready, trained mechanics, nearly in the middle of the route between JNB and LHR.
 
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Balerit
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:20 am

You only need a test flight if you remove 50% or more of the engines.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
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Richard28
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 am

neomax wrote:
NWAROOSTER wrote:
The only A380 that flew any amount of time with an engine failure was a Qantas aircraft that returned to Singapore in a nearly unflyable condition. :old:


The QF A380 had severed critical hydraulics and I'm pretty sure this one doesn't, otherwise it would definitely have made the news.


Indeed, this was simply an oil leak, not an uncontained engine failure!
 
Lofty
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:27 am

The last I heard she will be spending Christmas in JNB. A couple of A380s were due to be parked up over Christmas and it is cheaper and easier to leave her in JNB rather than accommodating her at LHR.
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:48 pm

She is alive on FR at present 1445 GMT so could be on her way back?
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:23 pm

Richard28 wrote:
neomax wrote:
NWAROOSTER wrote:
The only A380 that flew any amount of time with an engine failure was a Qantas aircraft that returned to Singapore in a nearly unflyable condition. :old:


The QF A380 had severed critical hydraulics and I'm pretty sure this one doesn't, otherwise it would definitely have made the news.


Indeed, this was simply an oil leak, not an uncontained engine failure!

An oil leak was what originally the root cause that resulted in the Qantas engine, power plant failure. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
sandyb123
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:37 pm

BOAC1966 wrote:
She is alive on FR at present 1445 GMT so could be on her way back?


Not moved. Must be (ground) powered up as part of the work they are doing on her?

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
ScottB
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:39 pm

CARST wrote:
You could stop in Casablanca (+7%), Addis (+10%) or Doha (+25%) for example. Indicated is always the mileage added for making the detour to that intermediate airport. Just wanting to point out that there are options available. Doha being the best I guess, despite adding the 25% to the flight time, A380 ready, trained mechanics, nearly in the middle of the route between JNB and LHR.


But there's still 3300+ nm between JNB & DOH, and if one of the three remaining engines goes, you really don't want to be forced to change two engines at an airfield in East Africa with limited facilities. That, of course, can also happen to carriers operating twin-engine aircraft (and they have no choice in the matter) but that has already been factored into the cost-benefit analysis associated with the routes/fleet.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:55 pm

BOAC1966 wrote:
Still in JNB ...must be impacting flights to either SFO or LAX .... all her sisters hard at work tonight!

Looking at SFO, LAX and MIA on basource, it doesn't seem to be having too much of an effect, so there must be a reasonable amount of slack in the schedule. Note, SFO drops to x3 weekly during the winter in any case. Presumably, the mx schedule has been adjusted.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:22 pm

Lofty wrote:
The last I heard she will be spending Christmas in JNB. A couple of A380s were due to be parked up over Christmas and it is cheaper and easier to leave her in JNB rather than accommodating her at LHR.


This is what i'm hearing too.No space either at LHR for her.
 
Lofty
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:38 pm

What is a baby A380 called? as their is no room at the Inn this Christmas!
 
boeing767300
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:41 pm

R-24 shows the aircraft scheduled to operate BA054 on the 23 December at 21:50 local time.
 
m007j
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:43 pm

Lofty wrote:
What is a baby A380 called? as their is no room at the Inn this Christmas!


A318
 
BOAC1966
Topic Author
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:08 pm

There has been, according to BA Source, several BA281/280 (LAX) flights cancelled. Not sure if this is due to absence of this aircraft or soft demand.
 
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Balerit
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:20 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if they're checking/boroscoping the other engines as well to be on the safe side.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
RB211trent
Posts: 79
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:41 pm

Balerit wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if they're checking/boroscoping the other engines as well to be on the safe side.


No they are not.
 
BOAC1966
Topic Author
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:08 pm

Yes position her back on 23rd then park up in JNB a southbound to run north later in festive break with load consolidation on a southbound frequency if possible! Sweat the assets!
 
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TedToToe
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:50 pm

She's powered up and showing on FR24 right now - 18:45 GMT: heading home this evening.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4138
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:53 pm

TedToToe wrote:
BOAC1966 wrote:
Still in JNB ...must be impacting flights to either SFO or LAX .... all her sisters hard at work tonight!

Looking at SFO, LAX and MIA on basource, it doesn't seem to be having too much of an effect, so there must be a reasonable amount of slack in the schedule. Note, SFO drops to x3 weekly during the winter in any case. Presumably, the mx schedule has been adjusted.

SFO doesn’t drop to 3 weekly in winter
 
gunnerman
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:02 pm

BA is at best double-daily to SFO year-round. Right now, it's double-daily except for Mondays and Fridays when it's only daily.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:20 pm

skipness1E wrote:
TedToToe wrote:
BOAC1966 wrote:
Still in JNB ...must be impacting flights to either SFO or LAX .... all her sisters hard at work tonight!

Looking at SFO, LAX and MIA on basource, it doesn't seem to be having too much of an effect, so there must be a reasonable amount of slack in the schedule. Note, SFO drops to x3 weekly during the winter in any case. Presumably, the mx schedule has been adjusted.

SFO doesn’t drop to 3 weekly in winter

I was referring to the frequency on the A380. BA287 is x3 weekly on the A380 this winter, other rotations with the 744 and 77E.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26may17/
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:07 am

you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:59 am

And the AN124 heads back to Kiev ....from FR routing towards Northern Europe then going northeast. I wonder where the old engine is?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:42 pm

What, they did not bring it back???
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
BOAC1966
Topic Author
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:51 am

This story had a silver lining! The inbound flight to JNB arriving on 23rd G-XLEL went tech and fortunately her older sister EA available as “spare” in JNB. This allowed many a Happy Christmas!
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:32 pm

AN124 positioned Kiev to Stansted on 24th assume with failed engine.spent 25th in STN then home today.
 
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Balerit
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:09 pm

BOAC1966 wrote:
This story had a silver lining! The inbound flight to JNB arriving on 23rd G-XLEL went tech and fortunately her older sister EA available as “spare” in JNB. This allowed many a Happy Christmas!


Looks like it's still stuck in JNB.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
BOAC1966
Topic Author
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:20 pm

According to FR returned to London on 23rd arrived 24th LHR. However. from what I can see since back yet to fly but all her suster ships operational over last few days! More MX?
 
BOAC1966
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:23 pm

EL returned 27-28th
 
Fabo
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:25 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Fabo wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:

It would not need to be nonstop to the UK. Could always refuel along the way.


Is there even any suitable airport enroute before you reach Europe? I'm not sure, not unless you make a detour to the Gulf.


What I don't understand is why some people think the continent of Africa is a black hole from SA to Europe. You can hop, skip, and jump the whole way if need be, whether B747 or A380.


I don't think the continent of Africa is a black hole, and if it was something smaller than an A380, I can see it jumping through LAD, NBO, ADD, CAI... whatever.

But the only airport I found in subsaharan Africa that had any A380 service besides JNB was Abidjan in Cote d Ivoire, at which point you might as well go to the Gulf.
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
grjplanes
Posts: 147
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:56 pm

Did BA keep up this rotation of A380s at JNB up until yesterday, by having one parked all the time.

Last night (8 Jan) there were 3 JNB-LHR BA A380 flights...according to FR24 operated by G-XLEE, G-XLEJ and G-XLEI...with the latter operating the extra service as BA1154 departing JNB 23:00

Ironically it would then probably have been BA's busiest day out of South Africa ever, since 4 flights operated out of CPT as well...with a 3rd 744 flight scheduled to LHR as seasonal extra....while Sunday's LGW 772 was delayed to Monday
 
xdlx
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:00 pm

So for the A380 fan base....the big quad is truly an amazing airplane. How did they miss the chance to certify for either a 3 engine ferry, or a pod to carry a spare engine for transport?
 
beerockxs
Posts: 11
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:04 pm

xdlx wrote:
How did they miss the chance to certify for either a 3 engine ferry, or a pod to carry a spare engine for transport?


Who is "they"? Since AF considered a three engine ferry and procedures for it are specified (https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/stat ... 1278566400), the aircraft certainly is certified for it, even if AF after all didn't perform a three-engined ferry flight.
 
xdlx
Posts: 874
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:52 pm

beerockxs wrote:
xdlx wrote:
How did they miss the chance to certify for either a 3 engine ferry, or a pod to carry a spare engine for transport?


Who is "they"? Since AF considered a three engine ferry and procedures for it are specified (https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/stat ... 1278566400), the aircraft certainly is certified for it, even if AF after all didn't perform a three-engined ferry flight.


Can you name any other instance where a 3 eng Ferry has been accomplished in the type?
 
beerockxs
Posts: 11
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:24 pm

xdlx wrote:
beerockxs wrote:
xdlx wrote:
How did they miss the chance to certify for either a 3 engine ferry, or a pod to carry a spare engine for transport?


Who is "they"? Since AF considered a three engine ferry and procedures for it are specified (https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth/stat ... 1278566400), the aircraft certainly is certified for it, even if AF after all didn't perform a three-engined ferry flight.


Can you name any other instance where a 3 eng Ferry has been accomplished in the type?
No, but what does that have to do with whether or not the plane is certified for it?

Gesendet von meinem MotoG3 mit Tapatalk
 
xdlx
Posts: 874
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Re: BA 380 stuck in JNB

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:34 am

Considering the A380 configuration, ( no reverse trust on outboards ) it is likely the 3engine ferry is limited. IF INOP engine is #2 or #3; it may not be dispatch ready with only one RT operating..... Just saying! The 3 engine ferry requires not only a procedure, but a crew proficient in the procedure. If by now we have not ever heard of one ferry of this kind done on the type, I suspect is not!

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