mattnrsa
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:16 am

Antarius wrote:
The delays. ORD is awful for weather and other delays.

That is the old ORD. With the new runways, the number of ATC delays into ORD are a small fraction of what they were 10 years ago.
 
ual763
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:00 am

Antarius wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Bingo. The right frequency is one that makes money.

As a non ORD based AA EXP, I avoid it like the plague. Horrible airport to connect in. I could see ORD continuing to be right sized for o&d.. and connections routed to less trainwrecky hubs


What makes is so bad for you? Honestly just curious. I have connected there tons and find it no worse than any other megahub. I'm referring to other 300+ flight a day ops where multiple terminals are involved. I feel like they all have their pain points. I'm thinking of DFW, [email protected], PHL, ATL, DTW, MSP, CLT, IAH, EWR...there's not glorious connecting options there.

As for [email protected], I'd love to see them build up their int'l offering more but if profitability isn't there, then it's not an option. As more 787's come online, maybe some options exist given the aircraft economics. What has really hurt int'l service is the Alliances/JVs. There was a great interview of Bob Crandall at Northwestern where he explained how AA went from #1 to Paris to falling behind. This wasn't just an alliance issue but plays a part. Basically, we've come down to limited ability to serve a competing alliance hub competitively. DL has some success driven by the purchase of the PA routes. Otherwise, a lot of entrenchment.


The delays. ORD is awful for weather and other delays.(and yes EWR is awful as well)

I'd take connecting in DFW or DTW or ATL any day.


Honestly, I think you just have been unlucky when going through O'hare. I've only ever been stuck overnight once at ORD. It was due to a major snow storm. But ORD, is so experienced in clearing snow, that it was up and running the next morning. ATL & DFW would have been a lot worse in snow events. But honestly, DFW gets more weather events than ORD, primarily in the Spring and Summertime.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
Sancho99504
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:56 am

IrishAyes wrote:
Swadian wrote:
I could see AA bring back ORD-ANC, ORD-MEX, ORD-FRA, and possibly ORD-HNL. Maybe start ORD-HND (given constraints) and ORD-AMS, then make ORD-CDG and ORD-BCN year-round?

Also upgauge some of the more major domestic routes (BOS, LGA, SFO, SEA) from 738 to A321?


ORD-ANC may be doable with a MAX during the summer period, especially with the AA/AS relationship going the way it is. US-MEX is now dominated by DL/AM and has a ton of LCC growth, so I don't see AA returning on ORD-MEX anytime soon.

ORD-HND would come on JL, if anything, before AA.

AMS and CDG are not even daily year-round on UA. And BCN is highly seasonal. There is no need for those to come online in the winter months, if at all.

You do know that AS operates the 737-800 on the route, right? I believe they even use the 900ER occasionally as well as the 73G. AA could operate it today with A319, A320, A321, 738, 752....
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
flyfresno
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:01 pm

Tan Flyr wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
All they need to do is add a flight or two to FAT and all their ORD problems will be solved...


Agreed!!! LOL..as most have said..there are a few opportunities..but they need to be profitable or a good chance of becoming profitable.

I think FAT is one of those..and there are a few other "dots on the map" that make some sense. Otherwise, the best thing to do is upgauge equipment where you can and makes sense, work darn hard on on time performance, bags, etc.

I think the whole "customer service/ experience" area is one that can stand some attention..in almost all aspects. Making the "needed" connection at ORD or other mega hub as painless and pleasant as possible can go a long way.


While UA has more flights out of FAT than AA and will be the only nonstop to ORD, AA still beats UA on total capacity. I think they will watch this route closely and we could see them do it within a couple years (likely on an A319 4-5 Days per week, possibly with a corresponding capacity reduction to DFW).
 
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United787
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:25 pm

uberflieger wrote:
Curious, does anybody know when the 5 new gates will be finished?

:airplane:


If I remember correctly, 1st or 2nd QTR 2018. The answer is somewhere in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1374447&hilit=chicago&start=100
 
jbs2886
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:57 pm

This link posted in another thread is apropos...

Looks like ORD is the fastest growing for AA this year.

http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/20/usb3-hu ... 2-86738773
 
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United787
Posts: 2841
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:46 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
This link posted in another thread is apropos...

Looks like ORD is the fastest growing for AA this year.

http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/20/usb3-hu ... 2-86738773


That is a good sign when compared to AA's other hubs but most of those hubs had a decrease in capacity or barely any increase. UA on the other hand also had growth at ORD, 55% higher than AA.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:50 pm

Antarius wrote:

The delays. ORD is awful for weather and other delays.(and yes EWR is awful as well)



This was true 10 years ago (and is still true at EWR). Now with the RWY re-alignment, ORD runs very well (far more arrival/departure capacity than before the re-align).

I still run into people who complain about chronic ATC delays at ATL, then come to find out they haven't flown through there in 15 years (before the 5th RWY an the TWY realignments). I suppose we'll need a 15-20 year learning curve for ORD too...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Antarius
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:44 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The delays. ORD is awful for weather and other delays.(and yes EWR is awful as well)



This was true 10 years ago (and is still true at EWR). Now with the RWY re-alignment, ORD runs very well (far more arrival/departure capacity than before the re-align).

I still run into people who complain about chronic ATC delays at ATL, then come to find out they haven't flown through there in 15 years (before the 5th RWY an the TWY realignments). I suppose we'll need a 15-20 year learning curve for ORD too...


Better doesn't make it good necessarily. ORD still trails DFW, IAH. CLT, ATL, DTW etc. in the Bureau of Transportation Stats for 2017 for on time departures.

I'd pick ORD over JFK/LGA/EWR and LAX and SFO.. but otherwise, much rather fly thru another hub.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 801
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:33 pm

wenders825 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Isnt AA down to LHR only from ORD??

They have some bigger problems than gate contracts

CDG, FCO, BCN, VCE, DUB, MAN are seasonal europe routes. NRT, PEK, PVG are year round asia routes. i think their presence is just fine. IB serves MAD out of the AA terminal and AY does HEL as well. i’d say OW’s presence in ORD is solid. (this also adds on CX and RJ, though those aren’t JV partners with AA like IB and AY)

expect AA to add ORD-ATH seasonal. i’d be most impressed to see them add ICN or EZE and beat UA to the punch, since they fly neither route


Is EI still planning on joining the JV?
 
glfblz59
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:59 pm

Well, as an AA retiree of almost 30 years, AA did have a branded service ORD-LGA-ORD. It was called the "Jet Express", and we had to wear powder blue sports coats, that had a silver & orange medallions on the chest pocket(AA colors at the time)when working these hourly flights. M-F 0700 - 2100. And, this was back in the days of handwritten tickets and only F & Y. No cancel or change fees. So many "important?"(in their own mind)made reservations on 2, 3 or 4 flights, depending on how long a meeting may go. Our 727-200's were 24F & 99Y. Mid-day flights usually went out "light". But, anything in the early hours and the late afternoon were no a lot of fun to work. But, that does beat the 747 we had from ORD-DTW, again all handwritten tickets, departing ORD at 1900. Seats" 66F - 344Y. I usually had to request at least 5/6 other agents to help write tickets and start boarding 30 mins B4 departure. OMG! How the years go "bye-bye".
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:40 pm

jmc1975 wrote:

...and add or re-instate
ORD-MHT (1x CR7)
ORD-ISP (2x E75)


Yes! ORD-ISP used to be a huge hit back until it ended around 15 years ago. 2x E175 could definitely work.

I like your thinking for ORD-MHT. MHT has been struggling lately and all the av enthusiasts there are desperate for any new service.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:44 pm

commavia wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
What makes ORD more special than DFW MIA DCA or CLT? The only other mainline destinations That are non-hubs are BOS and PBI.


What differentiates ORD among AA's various higher-frequency routes out of LGA, makes it a plausible candidate for "Shuttle" branding, are:

* Level of frequency (only other comparable AA routes of LGA are the existing "Shuttle" routes of BOS and DCA)
* Level of premium/business traffic
* Level of competition, and AA's historical and current strength on the route

jfklganyc wrote:
Because of the regional operation and the high frequency, People think of LaGuardia as a big operation for American… It’s scope is quite small. JFK Is moving in that direction as well


No, respectfully, I think many of us think of LGA as a "big operation" for AA because it is, in fact, a "big operation" for AA. AA has >160 peak day departures to 40+ destinations, comprising many of NYC's largest and most important business O&D markets. And AA's is the airport's second largest carrier with >25% market share. And for all the continuous doom and gloom, AA still has ~300 peak day departures out of NYC to 60+ nonstop markets in the U.S. and globally.


List the mainline destinations my friend

you’re going to come up with surprisingly little and they all have high frequency “shuttle “service.

The question was asked why Chicago is not a shuttle route. The truth is AA Has very limited mainline service out of LaGuardia to anything beyond hubs. All of their mainline service is high frequency super concentrated with the exception of a seasonal Palm Beach flight.

It is hard to justify shuttle Branding on one of those hubs Given that the service-levels are all similar in importance.

Now where does the regional operation fit into that equation my fellow a.netter?
 
evank516
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:27 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Bringing the conversation back into reality - I made an off handed comment a few months ago for "the hell of it" suggesting AA look at branding LGA-ORD as shuttle services, with the dedicated features and all that. Kind of expected it to be taken as "meh, whatever," but I saw a few others jump in and make comments in some other threads that such an idea was coming in the future.

Anything more?


The American mainline scope at LaGuardia is very limited. It could almost all be classified as “shuttle” with high frequency service to hubs and not much else. What makes ORD more special than DFW MIA DCA or CLT? The only other mainline destinations That are non-hubs are BOS and PBI.

Because of the regional operation and the high frequency, People think of LaGuardia as a big operation for American… It’s scope is quite small. JFK Is moving in that direction as well


MCI, STL, FLL, LAS, SEA, PDX, IAH, ATL, RNO, SFO. All have mainline flights from ORD. Oh, and so does JFK. I'm sure there's more, but there's a ton of mainline destinations from ORD on AA.

In terms of LaGuardia, yes you're correct.
 
commavia
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:52 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
List the mainline destinations my friend

you’re going to come up with surprisingly little and they all have high frequency “shuttle “service.

The question was asked why Chicago is not a shuttle route. The truth is AA Has very limited mainline service out of LaGuardia to anything beyond hubs. All of their mainline service is high frequency super concentrated with the exception of a seasonal Palm Beach flight.

It is hard to justify shuttle Branding on one of those hubs Given that the service-levels are all similar in importance.

Now where does the regional operation fit into that equation my fellow a.netter?


I’m honestly not clear on the point of the above, let alone it’s relevance to this conversation.

With respect to ORD-LGA and “Shuttle” branding, I was simply responding to the question - perhaps rhetorical? - about what could potentially qualify that route for that marketing. As said - I think, if anything, the business mix, frequency and competitive dynamics are all plausible reasons. And, again, lest we forget, AA itself has hinted publicly that “Shuttle” branding would be coming to ORD - and its hard to see where from except LGA.

More broadly, I’ll just say again that for all the constant repetition of negativity about AA at LGA and in NYC, AA still has ~300 daily departures out of the metro to >60 domestic and international destinations, with a strong offering in terms of frequency and product/service in many of the biggest markets. The distinction between mainline and regional matters little to me since it increasingly matters little to airline network planners and, frankly, customers - especially as dual-class RJs become more prevalent (for AA at LGA, and for airlines everywhere in general).
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:57 pm

Im talking about mainline branding from LGA.

The size of their operation is irrelevant, nor did I comment on AAs presence in NYC.

If you are making ORD “shuttle” you can make most of the mainline LGA operation “shuttle.” I would argue that DFW and MIA are actually more important “shuttle”routes for AA at LGA
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
If you are making ORD “shuttle” you can make most of the mainline LGA operation “shuttle.” I would argue that DFW and MIA are actually more important “shuttle”routes for AA at LGA


Well okay, if you define the prerequisites for a “Shuttle” as merely high frequency. As said - repeatedly - I don’t.

I do not believe that having high frequency, in and of itself, constitutes a sufficient business case for “Shuttle” branding. I believe that Delta’s experience on the west coast illustrates this dynamic.

There are other elements to it, including business mix and competition. Thus why it seems plausible to me that’s AA could consider expanding the “Shuttle” branding to ORD (as Delta has long done) but not other similarly-high-frequency markets like DFW, CLT and MIA.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:02 pm

CLT-NYC is banking center to banking center, no?

DFW-NYC is business center to business center and they dont have another hub carrier with high frequency service to contend with.

I would argue that both are more profitable and more important from LGA than ORD for AA. Both could use “shuttle.”

The long story short is, shuttle is long gone. There is nothing special about it. The days of a walk up, guaranteed flight with open seating ended a while ago. It is just a branding gimmick that flopped for DL when they expanded it beyond the traditional NE corridor. For AA, they have hourly service to hubs and BOS from LGA. They compete with UA and DL and their hourly service. UA has a hub on both ends. DL has a hub on the NY end. AA has 6 PHL flights a day coming to JFK for Euro connections and a solid #2 position in every way behind UA at ORD. Branding it “shuttle” may make them feel better...but doesnt fix their overall weakness in ORD or NYC.
 
Swadian
Posts: 538
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:49 pm

United787 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
This link posted in another thread is apropos...

Looks like ORD is the fastest growing for AA this year.

http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/20/usb3-hu ... 2-86738773


That is a good sign when compared to AA's other hubs but most of those hubs had a decrease in capacity or barely any increase. UA on the other hand also had growth at ORD, 55% higher than AA.


When AA is still consolidating after its merger (and is still working on FOI), one cannot expect growth to be comparable to UA.

Some more A321s at ORD could beef it up in key markets and turn it around from going the way of JFK. If AA has a hard time on ORD-Europe, beef up Asia/Alaska/Hawaii?
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
jbs2886
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:34 pm

Swadian wrote:
United787 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
This link posted in another thread is apropos...

Looks like ORD is the fastest growing for AA this year.

http://www.anna.aero/2017/12/20/usb3-hu ... 2-86738773


That is a good sign when compared to AA's other hubs but most of those hubs had a decrease in capacity or barely any increase. UA on the other hand also had growth at ORD, 55% higher than AA.


When AA is still consolidating after its merger (and is still working on FOI), one cannot expect growth to be comparable to UA.

Some more A321s at ORD could beef it up in key markets and turn it around from going the way of JFK. If AA has a hard time on ORD-Europe, beef up Asia/Alaska/Hawaii?


As long as they aren’t old US Airways A321s, those are significantly inferior!

AA doesn’t have Alaska or Hawaii from ORD. Alaska is possible with 737s; Hawaii requires a widebody. Unfortunately other than maybe HKG or ICN, I can’t see anything in Asia, those yields are under as much of not more pressure than Europe.
 
ILS28ORD
Posts: 166
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:31 am

Looking at flightaware AA shows one daily ORD-LHR on a 772 again. Is this long term or just during the holidays? It's been all 788 at ORD for a while now.
 
BlueLine
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:42 am

ILS28ORD wrote:
Looking at flightaware AA shows one daily ORD-LHR on a 772 again. Is this long term or just during the holidays? It's been all 788 at ORD for a while now.


AA86 (ORD-LHR) is being operated by a 772 for the winter season. This equipment type has been on this route for the past few weeks. This is currently the only 777 route out of ORD for AA.

Although a week or so ago, there was a 77W substitution to LHR.
 
commavia
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:08 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
AA doesn’t have Alaska or Hawaii from ORD. Alaska is possible with 737s; Hawaii requires a widebody.


I’d hardly say either is “needed” per se, but it would be nice to see AA return to ORD-ANC, even just with a weekend 737 in peak summer. As for ORD-HNL, there, too, it would be great to see a return to a route AA flew for decades but I’m unsure of the aircraft type given that neither the 767 nor 772 are regularly scheduled into ORD anymore. That said, if AA could get the plane routed into ORD, or even turn it over HNL if the operational risk wasn’t to high of a morning cancellation at ORD, it isn’t at all hard to envision AA returning to ORD-HNL during peak summer/winter periods. Just sad the traditional flight numbers have been repurposed! Haha

jbs2886 wrote:
Unfortunately other than maybe HKG or ICN, I can’t see anything in Asia, those yields are under as much of not more pressure than Europe.


Agreed. I don’t think AA needs to add much if anything on ORD-Asia. With nonstops to NRT, PGG and PEK plus HKG codeshares with Cathay Pacific, AA had Asia sufficiently covered.
 
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chepos
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:31 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
Looking at flightaware AA shows one daily ORD-LHR on a 772 again. Is this long term or just during the holidays? It's been all 788 at ORD for a while now.


It’s been operating with a 777 since November. In the summer when FCO operates it is usually a 772 as well.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
TWA1985
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:24 am

Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:36 pm

chepos wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
Looking at flightaware AA shows one daily ORD-LHR on a 772 again. Is this long term or just during the holidays? It's been all 788 at ORD for a while now.


It’s been operating with a 777 since November. In the summer when FCO operates it is usually a 772 as well.


It looks like ORD-FCO will also be using the 788 this coming summer.
Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
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kngkyle
Moderator
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:19 pm

Each of the last 6 months have seen new international passenger records at ORD, so other carriers are filling in the AA void plus more.
 
ILS28ORD
Posts: 166
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:20 pm

commavia wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
AA doesn’t have Alaska or Hawaii from ORD. Alaska is possible with 737s; Hawaii requires a widebody.


I’d hardly say either is “needed” per se, but it would be nice to see AA return to ORD-ANC, even just with a weekend 737 in peak summer. As for ORD-HNL, there, too, it would be great to see a return to a route AA flew for decades but I’m unsure of the aircraft type given that neither the 767 nor 772 are regularly scheduled into ORD anymore. That said, if AA could get the plane routed into ORD, or even turn it over HNL if the operational risk wasn’t to high of a morning cancellation at ORD, it isn’t at all hard to envision AA returning to ORD-HNL during peak summer/winter periods. Just sad the traditional flight numbers have been repurposed! Haha

jbs2886 wrote:
Unfortunately other than maybe HKG or ICN, I can’t see anything in Asia, those yields are under as much of not more pressure than Europe.


Agreed. I don’t think AA needs to add much if anything on ORD-Asia. With nonstops to NRT, PGG and PEK plus HKG codeshares with Cathay Pacific, AA had Asia sufficiently covered.


AA still operates the 772, 763, and 788 domestically between ORD and DFW/LAX/MIA I don't think it would be all that hard to fly one in from one of those other hubs and use it to fly ORD-HNL. This used to be daily, year round. OGG used to be flown non stop from ORD as well.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:09 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
commavia wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
AA doesn’t have Alaska or Hawaii from ORD. Alaska is possible with 737s; Hawaii requires a widebody.


I’d hardly say either is “needed” per se, but it would be nice to see AA return to ORD-ANC, even just with a weekend 737 in peak summer. As for ORD-HNL, there, too, it would be great to see a return to a route AA flew for decades but I’m unsure of the aircraft type given that neither the 767 nor 772 are regularly scheduled into ORD anymore. That said, if AA could get the plane routed into ORD, or even turn it over HNL if the operational risk wasn’t to high of a morning cancellation at ORD, it isn’t at all hard to envision AA returning to ORD-HNL during peak summer/winter periods. Just sad the traditional flight numbers have been repurposed! Haha

jbs2886 wrote:
Unfortunately other than maybe HKG or ICN, I can’t see anything in Asia, those yields are under as much of not more pressure than Europe.


Agreed. I don’t think AA needs to add much if anything on ORD-Asia. With nonstops to NRT, PGG and PEK plus HKG codeshares with Cathay Pacific, AA had Asia sufficiently covered.


AA still operates the 772, 763, and 788 domestically between ORD and DFW/LAX/MIA I don't think it would be all that hard to fly one in from one of those other hubs and use it to fly ORD-HNL. This used to be daily, year round. OGG used to be flown non stop from ORD as well.


What happened to ORD-HNL on AA? I'm surprised that route is not flown at least on a seasonal basis.
 
CHI2DFW
Topic Author
Posts: 223
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Re: What AA needs to do at ORD

Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:58 am

Get the gate lease resolved, expand / build the new gates, and as Billy Madison would say, “ you get off your ass and add more f-/:;() flights!”

Or they’ll go to DTW!

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