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airbazar
Topic Author
Posts: 10221
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:51 pm

Some of these have been flown in the past.

LIS - KKC (Nouakchott) - No frequencies mentioned.
LIS - FLR 5x weekly (Florence)
OPO-BCN 2x daily (Barcelona)
OPO-LCY 1x daily (London City)
OPO-MXP? 2x daily (Milan)
OPO-PDL 1x daily (Ponta Delgada)
News in portuguese:
http://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/ta ... os-em-2018
https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas/ta ... vas-rotas/
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:53 pm

Nouakchott is very, very interesting. For Europe, we'll now have Paris, Istanbul, and Lisbon from various European airlines. Not bad.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:24 pm

airbazar wrote:
OPO-LCY 1x daily (London City)



I wonder if that means LIS launch from LCY has been doing well?
 
santos
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Great additions!
Those Embraers are paying off with the opening of new markets such as LCY & FLR.

I wonder what else they will announce for Winter 2018 with the arrival of the first A339neo and some more A320/A321LRneo
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Good news for OPO and great to see TAP expanding further in West Africa too!
Surprising not to see any long-haul routes announced, though...
Has this something to do with the Crew-agreement revision not being finalized?
 
simoFLR
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:24 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:36 pm

airbazar wrote:
Some of these have been flown in the past.

LIS - KKC (Nouakchott) - No frequencies mentioned.
LIS - FLR 5x weekly (Florence)
OPO-BCN 2x daily (Barcelona)
OPO-LCY 1x daily (London City)
OPO-MXP? 2x daily (Milan)
OPO-PDL 1x daily (Ponta Delgada)
News in portuguese:
http://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/ta ... os-em-2018
https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas/ta ... vas-rotas/



LIS-FLR 10x weekly
 
airbazar
Topic Author
Posts: 10221
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:33 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
airbazar wrote:
OPO-LCY 1x daily (London City)

I wonder if that means LIS launch from LCY has been doing well?

Might have more to do with lack of slots at LHR and LGW.

aviationlover7 wrote:
Surprising not to see any long-haul routes announced, though...
Has this something to do with the Crew-agreement revision not being finalized?

Might have something to do with the uncertainty around the delivery date for the new A330neo and A321LR's.
I heard that an agreement has been reached to allow TP to lease an aircraft from HiFly to boost capacity in the Summer. I still expect to hear about new long haul routes and some rumors pointed to SFO and YUL.
 
dredgy
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Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Seriously, Lisbon to Nouakchott? (Which is NKC, not KKC). Best news of my life. Just last month I had to do LIS to LPA on TAP, overnight in the Canaries and then use Binter LPA-NKC. Usually it involves an expensive flight from Paris.
This makes TAP a strong player in West Africa and makes LIS a much more competitive transfer point than the horror that is CDG.

Fun fact, if anyone is ever in Nouakchott - since they shut down the old airport in 2016 (which was in the middle of the city) - the runway is in use as a public road and its great fun to zip down a runway surrounded by donkey carts and the like.
 
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yochai
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:37 pm

I wonder if TP will ever try TLV. LY,IZ and 6H all fly TLV-LIS/OPO during summer, they could also get plenty of connections to North and South America
 
Luisvalero
Posts: 207
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:56 pm

Wow, TAP is seriously becoming a big player in West Africa with late additions (Abidjan, Lomé and now Nouakchott). I'm sure this will affect AF in some way, as these are key African destinations for this company. Wondering why Tap dropped Bamako a couple of years ago.. I can see them adding Conakry, Cotonou & Douala too
 
LXwing
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
airbazar wrote:
OPO-LCY 1x daily (London City)

I wonder if that means LIS launch from LCY has been doing well?

Might have more to do with lack of slots at LHR and LGW.


Actually OPO-LCY is 6 weekly ex saturday.
LIS-LCY is said to be a big hit so that should indeed be the main reason. TAP apparently has no capacity problem for LON from OPO, after all they are currently using E190 on that route... True, LCY will add a third daily frequency.
 
Kadish
Posts: 373
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:29 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
Wow, TAP is seriously becoming a big player in West Africa with late additions (Abidjan, Lomé and now Nouakchott). I'm sure this will affect AF in some way, as these are key African destinations for this company. Wondering why Tap dropped Bamako a couple of years ago.. I can see them adding Conakry, Cotonou & Douala too


I wonder why IB doesn’t want to be a big player in Africa. Better location than CDG so smaller planes, more extensive network than TAP....I’ve always thought that IB could make profits there.
 
Breathe
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Slightly OT, but if TAP were to consider another UK destination, what destinations would be top of the wish-list?
 
Luisvalero
Posts: 207
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:59 pm

Kadish wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
Wow, TAP is seriously becoming a big player in West Africa with late additions (Abidjan, Lomé and now Nouakchott). I'm sure this will affect AF in some way, as these are key African destinations for this company. Wondering why Tap dropped Bamako a couple of years ago.. I can see them adding Conakry, Cotonou & Douala too


I wonder why IB doesn’t want to be a big player in Africa. Better location than CDG so smaller planes, more extensive network than TAP....I’ve always thought that IB could make profits there.


I think I can answer your question. I'm from Madrid and I've visited both Paris and Lisbon. Paris obviously has the demand there, and Lisbon is the one trying to catch and steal those passengers in the Africa-France market. Also LIS has a huge African community from Portuguese colonies and West Africa. On the other side MAD doesn't have that big African community and has almost 0 demand to markets such as Abidjan, Accra, Lome etc... IB stated no long ago that wanted to launch new markets in Africa, but from my point of view IB is more cautious than TAP, and it's main focus is America launching Managua and SFO next year.. TAP on the other side risks more in new markets. An Example of this model is not just found in Africa, In Europe TAP flies to destinations such as OSL, WAW, HEL, LUX while IB is not there....
 
LXwing
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:19 pm

Breathe wrote:
Slightly OT, but if TAP were to consider another UK destination, what destinations would be top of the wish-list?


EDI, and maybe BHX since the demise of Monarch.
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 57
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:50 pm

In another article I read 5x week for NKC.

FLR is also talked to be 9 or 10x week.

Enviado do meu ASUS_Z00AD através de Tapatalk
 
Alphazone
Posts: 220
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:03 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
I'm from Madrid (...) MAD doesn't have that big African community


I think that if you go to Plaza Mayor, you see that this is not true...

There are some African markets served from MAD, I once purchased IB ALG-MAD-DKR <$50 mistake fare.
N664US The Spirit of Beijing
N670US World Plane - 50 Years Bridging the Pacific / The Alliance Spirit
N671US City of Detroit
N673US City of Tokyo
N674US City of Shanghai
N675NW Spirit of the Northwest People
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:24 pm

Kadish wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
Wow, TAP is seriously becoming a big player in West Africa with late additions (Abidjan, Lomé and now Nouakchott). I'm sure this will affect AF in some way, as these are key African destinations for this company. Wondering why Tap dropped Bamako a couple of years ago.. I can see them adding Conakry, Cotonou & Douala too


I wonder why IB doesn’t want to be a big player in Africa. Better location than CDG so smaller planes, more extensive network than TAP....I’ve always thought that IB could make profits there.


IB would have to rely a lot more on connecting traffic. Portugal and France both colonised a lot of Africa, Spain did not. Nouadhibou and Layounne are two cities that have some residual connections to Spain and both are served from the canaries.

Lisbon is superior geographically too, so would be hard for IB - that said, I’d welcome the competition. Getting to secondary cities - and even primary cities - can be both expensive and inconvenient.

I would also like TAP to have an Asian route so that they could compete on the Kangaroo route as inbound Portuguese tourism booms and also connect Chinese businessmen to their excellent South American and growing West African network.
 
airbazar
Topic Author
Posts: 10221
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:42 pm

I do believe that the majority of the passengers are connections to France/Belgium/UK as well as U.S. and China to a less extent, but there's O&D to Portugal too. Fishing and Energy are 2 of the main sectors where Portuguese firms are expanding in West Africa. The A320NEO should enable TP to vastly expand to every major city North and West of the Congo if they wish to do so. Malabo, Bangui, Douala, Libreville are all reachable from LIS with an A320/321NEO.
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:29 am

Nouakchott I had to google. Who flies there? UN peace keepers?
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:03 am

VCEflyboy wrote:
Nouakchott I had to google. Who flies there? UN peace keepers?


I visited for the first time as a tourist this month, and there were plenty of others. I also visit very regularly for work - I’m in software engineering (working with a bank in Mauritania), but lots of Chinese and EU companies are investing in fisheries (Mauritania has the richest fisheries in the world) and resources - in Mauritania particularly Iron Ore though lots of potential for gold and I think some oil exploration. On top of that, there’s lots of Mauritanians living in Paris and the Canaries, and fishermen come up from Dakar. And Islamic country so people do Hajj Pilgrimages, plus some people make pilgrimages to the holy city of Chinguetty in Mauritania itself.

I don’t think there’s a significant U.N. peacekeeping effort there - the country is largely peaceful with most issues being near the northern borders with Algeria, Mali and Western Sahara where there are no border demarcations so Al Qaedan operatives do flow across the border, but there’s no active conflict per se and most of it’s just deser . In developed regions of the country, it’s perfectly safe and the local military has it very much under control. I have met human rights workers a few times, though can’t recall if they were U.N. or NGO.

EDIT. There has never been a peacekeeping operation in Mauritania, Mauritania does CONTRIBUTE a significant amount of troops to the UN though, so maybe they account for a bit.

On my last flight LPA to NKC there were 7 Australians (not including myself), two British and 2 Irish guys. Most of them were headed to Zouérat and Nouadhibou for Iron Ore work.
 
Kadish
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:23 am

dredgy wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
Wow, TAP is seriously becoming a big player in West Africa with late additions (Abidjan, Lomé and now Nouakchott). I'm sure this will affect AF in some way, as these are key African destinations for this company. Wondering why Tap dropped Bamako a couple of years ago.. I can see them adding Conakry, Cotonou & Douala too


I wonder why IB doesn’t want to be a big player in Africa. Better location than CDG so smaller planes, more extensive network than TAP....I’ve always thought that IB could make profits there.


IB would have to rely a lot more on connecting traffic. Portugal and France both colonised a lot of Africa, Spain did not. Nouadhibou and Layounne are two cities that have some residual connections to Spain and both are served from the canaries.

Lisbon is superior geographically too, so would be hard for IB - that said, I’d welcome the competition. Getting to secondary cities - and even primary cities - can be both expensive and inconvenient.

I would also like TAP to have an Asian route so that they could compete on the Kangaroo route as inbound Portuguese tourism booms and also connect Chinese businessmen to their excellent South American and growing West African network.




I don’t think Lis is superior geographically. Almost anywhere is shorter from Mad to Europe n the same happens with Africa.
 
Kadish
Posts: 373
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:32 am

Luisvalero wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
Wow, TAP is seriously becoming a big player in West Africa with late additions (Abidjan, Lomé and now Nouakchott). I'm sure this will affect AF in some way, as these are key African destinations for this company. Wondering why Tap dropped Bamako a couple of years ago.. I can see them adding Conakry, Cotonou & Douala too


I wonder why IB doesn’t want to be a big player in Africa. Better location than CDG so smaller planes, more extensive network than TAP....I’ve always thought that IB could make profits there.


I think I can answer your question. I'm from Madrid and I've visited both Paris and Lisbon. Paris obviously has the demand there, and Lisbon is the one trying to catch and steal those passengers in the Africa-France market. Also LIS has a huge African community from Portuguese colonies and West Africa. On the other side MAD doesn't have that big African community and has almost 0 demand to markets such as Abidjan, Accra, Lome etc... IB stated no long ago that wanted to launch new markets in Africa, but from my point of view IB is more cautious than TAP, and it's main focus is America launching Managua and SFO next year.. TAP on the other side risks more in new markets. An Example of this model is not just found in Africa, In Europe TAP flies to destinations such as OSL, WAW, HEL, LUX while IB is not there....


Indeed IB is more cautious.
Mad has a huge population of people from Maroc, Argelia,Senegal....about the routes that you ate mentioning is irrelevant because for example HEL is served by a OW partner but above all because the cities served from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb are more numerous than the ones served from LIS, and in those countries is where most connecting traffic takes place.

With the newer 320/321 almost every corner in Africa could be served.
 
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angelopga
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Munich

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Naples
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Miami
New York (JFK)

Gb
London LHR

TP operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Berlin
Cologne
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Hamburg
Munich
Stutgart

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Miami
New York (JFK)
New York (EWR)

Gb
London LHR
London LGW
London LCY
Manchester
 
Kadish
Posts: 373
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:14 pm

angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Munich

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Naples
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Miami
New York (JFK)

Gb
London LHR

TP operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Berlin
Cologne
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Hamburg
Munich
Stutgart

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Miami
New York (JFK)
New York (EWR)

Gb
London LHR
London LGW
London LCY
Manchester



You missed quite a few routes Berlin, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Naples, Manchester, Birmingham, Edimburg, Gatwick, Rennes....my point is
 
airbazar
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:25 pm

angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

Iberia serves more secondary cities with Air Nostrum and Iberia Express but I agree that the difference is not all that significant. Both airlines cover all the major European cities, either directly or thru code-shares.
At the end of the day, Africa was never a strong market for Iberia just like Latin America was never a strong market for TAP. They will venture out into those markets where they see potential but never risk too much, as it happened to TAP in BOG and PTY.
TAP now has the added benefit that the Chinese invested heavily in Portugal over the last decade and those same Chinese firms are also investing in Africa. That has created the unexpected benefit of a China-Portugal-Africa business triangle.
 
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angelopga
Posts: 74
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:45 pm

Kadish wrote:
angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Munich

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Naples
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Miami
New York (JFK)

Gb
London LHR

TP operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Berlin
Cologne
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Hamburg
Munich
Stutgart

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Miami
New York (JFK)
New York (EWR)

Gb
London LHR
London LGW
London LCY
Manchester



You missed quite a few routes Berlin, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Naples, Manchester, Birmingham, Edimburg, Gatwick, Rennes....my point is



Berlin - Operated By Iberia Express
Stuttgart - Operated By Iberia Express
Hamburg - Missed this one as IB operated
Naples - Mentioned in my comments
Manchester - Operated By Iberia Express
Birmingham - Operated By Iberia Express
Edimburg - Don't see any flight operated by IB or Iberia Express
Gatwick - Operated By Iberia Express
Rennes - Operated By Iberia Express
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:18 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
Nouakchott I had to google. Who flies there? UN peace keepers?

There isn't a UN peacekeeping mission in Mauritania so...I would say no. Why would you assume that?
 
Kadish
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:50 pm

angelopga wrote:
Kadish wrote:
angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Munich

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Naples
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Chicago
Los Angeles
Miami
New York (JFK)

Gb
London LHR

TP operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Germany
Berlin
Cologne
Düsseldorf
Frankfurt
Hamburg
Munich
Stutgart

Italy
Bologna
Milan
Rome
Venice

USA
Boston
Miami
New York (JFK)
New York (EWR)

Gb
London LHR
London LGW
London LCY
Manchester



You missed quite a few routes Berlin, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Naples, Manchester, Birmingham, Edimburg, Gatwick, Rennes....my point is



Berlin - Operated By Iberia Express
Stuttgart - Operated By Iberia Express
Hamburg - Missed this one as IB operated
Naples - Mentioned in my comments
Manchester - Operated By Iberia Express
Birmingham - Operated By Iberia Express
Edimburg - Don't see any flight operated by IB or Iberia Express
Gatwick - Operated By Iberia Express
Rennes - Operated By Iberia Express



IB or Iberia Express makes no difference. Same thing, lower salaries....nothing else.
But my comment was not against TAP which I consider a great one but the fact that in general IB has a wider network not only in Europe but also in America and in Asia, geographically speaking I see Mad better than Lis, economically speaking Spain and Madrid are richer than Portugal and Lisbon( don’t mean any offence), Mad airport has a lot of room for more expansion.....so a lot of facts that if Tap could make it work why not IB?
 
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TS-IOR
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:52 pm

NKC will certainly capture some traffic used to fly to Europe via Tunisair and RAM.
 
Cunard
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:04 am

Alphazone wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
Kadish wrote:


I think that if you go to Plaza Mayor, you see that this is not true...

There are some African markets served from MAD, I once purchased IB ALG-MAD-DKR <$50 mistake fare.


Yeah but the majority of those Africans that you see in Plaza Major are generally migrants from Senegal (or so they tend to say) selling beads and bracelets!

I was in Lisbon a few years ago and I had a great conversation with a few guys from Senegal who were really trying to sell me something but as soon as I told them that I had been to Senegal and we immediately got chatting there country and about football and they were so cool, so cool in fact that when we had moved on elsewhere we bumped into another group of west Africans and when one tried to approach us with his goods another one shouted out 'no he's our friend' he knows (who ever I was chatting to previously) and left us alone.

That's worked a few times with me :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Bhoy
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Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:44 am

angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Strictly speaking, you can add Mulhouse to that list in France as an IB mainline destination ex-MAD (although it's marketed as Basel, but the Airport is on French territory).
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5828
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:15 pm

I think part of the success of TAP is that they are extremely aggressive price-wise.

My gut feeling (and experience) is that from Spain they usually heavy discount fares to Europe (I am talking about MAD-LIS-Europe for 60 or 70 euros one-way very often with a short layover and not bought much in advance). TAP flies to everywhere in Spain, so for some minor airports it provides a reasonable (and cheaper) alternative to connecting with IB in Madrid. Even from places like MAD, TP offers more frequencies to some destinations like LUX or NTE that what you can find non-stop (and at much higher fares). For the US, it is not uncommon either to find 400 EUR round. You see also always many Africans flying Europe-LIS (even for places like Germany where there are not many of them). Clearly, TAP prices themselves as the cheapest option so they get all this traffic.

In way, TP's business model reminds me of Turkish. Their success is due partially to very aggressive fares and aggressive geographic expansion (e.g. TAP flies to DUS/CGN, to three airports in London, etc)
 
airbazar
Topic Author
Posts: 10221
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:31 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
In way, TP's business model reminds me of Turkish. Their success is due partially to very aggressive fares and aggressive geographic expansion (e.g. TAP flies to DUS/CGN, to three airports in London, etc)

The reason for that is because both TP and TK have some of the lowest operating costs of all European legacy carriers.
This article is a few years old but I don't expect it to be significantly different with respect to TP and TK.
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... -it-147262
 
Kikko19
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:34 pm

airbazar wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
In way, TP's business model reminds me of Turkish. Their success is due partially to very aggressive fares and aggressive geographic expansion (e.g. TAP flies to DUS/CGN, to three airports in London, etc)

The reason for that is because both TP and TK have some of the lowest operating costs of all European legacy carriers.
This article is a few years old but I don't expect it to be significantly different with respect to TP and TK.
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... -it-147262

I would also see analogy with Ay due to geography. The big problem, experienced a week ago, it's Lis airport. One runway with bad weather just it is not enough.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:45 pm

Bhoy wrote:
angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Strictly speaking, you can add Mulhouse to that list in France as an IB mainline destination ex-MAD (although it's marketed as Basel, but the Airport is on French territory).


I was going to add Mulhouse as it's listed as part of Iberia's route network as does Geneva but although the airport is in French territory the airport is marketed as Geneva so I omitted Mulhouse.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:27 am

Cunard wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
angelopga wrote:
Routes from MAD to France, Germany,Italy,USA or Gb served by all airlines or only by IB? Are you sure that the difference is that big?

If i did not miss any destination this is how it looks IB vs TP for those markets you mentioned:

IB operated, excluding code-shares

France
Bordeaux
Lyon
Marseille
Nantes
Nice
Paris
Toulouse

Strictly speaking, you can add Mulhouse to that list in France as an IB mainline destination ex-MAD (although it's marketed as Basel, but the Airport is on French territory).


I was going to add Mulhouse as it's listed as part of Iberia's route network as does Geneva but although the airport is in French territory the airport is marketed as Geneva so I omitted Mulhouse.


I think Geneva is a little different. The Geneva Airport was originally built in both France and Switzerland. Flights going to France from Geneva leave from the "French" side while most of the others (like Iberia) fly out of the "Swiss" side. Since Schengen went into effect, the only reason to keep the distinction is because Switzerland isn't in the EU customs union.
 
xorrygva
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:52 pm

I quickly clarify this point which is slightly off topic. Geneva airport has originally been built on the Swiss side only. Following the decision to expand the site and the runnway, French and Swiss did a small territory swap so the airport can remain entirely in Switzerland. In exchange, France got its direct access road which it still has. Hope it clarifies :-)
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:27 pm

xorrygva wrote:
I quickly clarify this point which is slightly off topic. Geneva airport has originally been built on the Swiss side only. Following the decision to expand the site and the runnway, French and Swiss did a small territory swap so the airport can remain entirely in Switzerland. In exchange, France got its direct access road which it still has. Hope it clarifies :-)


Many thanks for clarifying that piece of information it's appreciated :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:56 pm

Is TP bringing in more Embraers or a320 for the new services? I read also that there will be more frequencies to Brazil and Canada. Is the new 339?
 
airbazar
Topic Author
Posts: 10221
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:22 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
Is TP bringing in more Embraers or a320 for the new services? I read also that there will be more frequencies to Brazil and Canada. Is the new 339?

TP is getting a number of NEO's this year, both A320's and A339's.
First A320NEO is scheduled to arrive in February.
 
a350lover
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:28 pm

What's the current situation of this airline? Is it still highly State-owned?
They are showing bits of "wealth" (like this fleet's renovations), and I was just wondering how good/bad are their numbers...
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:48 pm

a350lover wrote:
What's the current situation of this airline? Is it still highly State-owned?
They are showing bits of "wealth" (like this fleet's renovations), and I was just wondering how good/bad are their numbers...


Still highly state-owned (~50%). Returned to a small profit in 2016, and that is expected to grow for 2017, though they are also investing heavily (which is wise).The new cabins on the A320 are indeed a delight and the business class lounge in Lisbon is excellent. I hope the renovate/remove their E190s soon enough, those TAPExpress flights are so far removed from the mainline short haul fleet it’s not funny.
 
a350lover
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:12 pm

dredgy wrote:

Still highly state-owned (~50%).


Thanks @dredgy
Is there any attempt by the state to sell all/part of it?
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:28 pm

a350lover wrote:
dredgy wrote:

Still highly state-owned (~50%).


Thanks @dredgy
Is there any attempt by the state to sell all/part of it?


I think the opposite. There was a plan to privatise and it got underway- private consortium bought 61%, then a new government came in almost immediately and put a halt to privatization and returned majority control to the state. All of this happened in like the last 2 or 3 years from memory.
 
airbazar
Topic Author
Posts: 10221
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:49 pm

a350lover wrote:
dredgy wrote:

Still highly state-owned (~50%).


Thanks @dredgy
Is there any attempt by the state to sell all/part of it?

https://www.ft.com/content/c408293c-cda ... f7778e7377
So far the government has stayed out of any interference.
The biggest thing coming up in 2018 is a possible revision of the labor agreement with the flight attendants union. The current rules are unrealistic and uncompetitive as you'd expect in an airline that was government run for decades but the union doesn't want it. So that will be a very interesting thing to watch. The existing agreement is leading to ridiculous episodes like the one reported here:
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... e-service/
 
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Jayafe
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:13 pm

dredgy wrote:
...I hope the renovate/remove their E190s soon enough, those TAPExpress flights are so far removed from the mainline short haul fleet it’s not funny.


Compared to the ATR72 ones? (curiosity)
 
Kikko19
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:27 pm

Jayafe wrote:
dredgy wrote:
...I hope the renovate/remove their E190s soon enough, those TAPExpress flights are so far removed from the mainline short haul fleet it’s not funny.


Compared to the ATR72 ones? (curiosity)

What is wrong with the the e190? I love them you seat either in the aisle or window, and are less cramped than crj's with more baggage possibilities. Maybe they are costly to operate? The only problem for TP is Lis apt, they should build a new airport with 2 runways (I see one, i guess military base when I land, could they build it there? Of course it is not downtown...
 
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Jayafe
Posts: 1227
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:27 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
...The only problem for TP is Lis apt, they should build a new airport with 2 runways (I see one, i guess military base when I land, could they build it there? Of course it is not downtown...


They're working exactly on that:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017- ... 749881.htm
 
Kikko19
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP announces new routes for 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:12 pm

That's wonderful! Hopefully the Chinese will be changed. So in few years it can be done. Unlike BER....

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