What are the chances Hawaiian Airlines ever expands to serve cities in the eastern portion of the country (for purposes here, this includes any city east of the Rocky Mountains)? They would likely need longer haul aircraft (A330, 787, etc) if they did, do they have plans to purchase more aircraft beyond the A330 order?

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.

What about service to Canada? I think the airline name alone might overcome some (but likely not enough) Canadians defaulting to AC/WS, etc...

YVRing wrote:

What about service to Canada? I think the airline name alone might overcome some (but likely not enough) Canadians defaulting to AC/WS, etc...

I mean.. Hawaiian may jump in with the CYVR service but I doubt that.

I could certainly see HNL-BOS come to fruition. 42,758 visitors traveled to Hawaii from the BOS MSA through October. That shakes out to roughly 141 visitors a day. Additionally, HA would have a monopoly on the route and feed from their partner B6. It should also be noted, that while an average of 141 visitors a day does not fill a HA 332 by half, nonstops tend to spur additional demand and with feed from B6, the route may be viable. Lastly, with the Caribbean still very much rebounding from the hurricanes this fall, East Coast sun seekers will likely be looking for other destinations to visit.

I could also see MSP being on the radar. There have been over 55,000 visitors from the MSP area through October, or roughly 181 passengers a day. DL currently flies the route, but only seasonally. However, unlike BOS, HA would not have the luxury of feed from a partner and would be more reliant on O&D. A HNL-MSP add by HA would most likely see DLrespond by matching service frequency having the benefit of numerous capable aircraft types to better match demand.

For now, I don't see HA targeting any hub cities with existing service as they would again be more reliant on O&D, have minimal brand recognition relative to the incumbent hubbed carrier and an almost non-existent frequent flier base, again relative to the incumbent carrier.

From what we've seem from HA so far, I expect them to claw away at the combined AS/VX's market share in the West and continue their international expansion where possible.

77H

When I worked for Menzies in IAH, there was talk over what account manager would handle the HA account which signals at least to me that there was serious talk of HA coming here.

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

When Hawaiian combines with JetBlue, you’ll see an expanded east coast presence.

Password wrote:

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

Thats not a stupid question and actually Norwegian Argentina has some of these routes on its radar. I think HAL would maybe be successful but maybe not..

TWA772LR wrote:

When I worked for Menzies in IAH, there was talk over what account manager would handle the HA account which signals at least to me that there was serious talk of HA coming here.

"The HA Account" to a Ground Handling Company could mean anything from full blown service to HA's Football Charter Flights.
IAH is UA's second largest hub. It already has a nonstop to HNL and there are numerous 1-stop options to all the other islands. I can't imagine IAH of all places being anywhere near the top of HA's route planning totem pole.

As posted above, I think that HA will continue to try and grab market share AS gained after AQ's demise and didn't have an aircraft type to compete. This expansion, as we've already seen announcements for will center in the West Coast to the Neighbor Islands. HA also has WN to consider so getting a stronger foothold between the West Coast and all of Hawaii is important.

There are only a handful of cities large enough to support WB service to Hawaii and most of them already have entrenched carriers operating them replete with brand recognition, frequent flier bases and more comprehensive networks to feed their nonstop's above O&D feed. I believe HA would be most successful where there is limited competition and feed from a partner.

77H

BOS is not exactly in the top 5 cities I think of as a connection point when I want to get to Hawaii. Pretty much back tracking on every route making it a 12-15 hour journey to Hawaii

I am surprised that HA has not started DEN nor SLC... I know they are UA and DL strong holds... but...

HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.

I'm not sure there's that much expansion to be done on the east coast. Flights to Florida and the Caribbean are much cheaper, much shorter, and the destinations themselves are far cheaper. Not to mention that Hawaii just isn't as popular of a destination as it is on the west coast. Even flights to Europe are shorter and often cheaper. I think HA service to the east coast will probably be limited to their existing JFK route. UA runs from EWR and I guess seasonally from IAD, but US struggled and ultimately failed from CLT, and I'm not sure they'd fare any better post merger. I also don't think it helps that Hawaiian has very little brand recognition on the east coast. I can't think of any east coast cities outside of New York where they could run a viable nonstop route.

I've heard that IAD has been on HA's radar, whether that is true currently, I'd have no way of knowing.

lavalampluva wrote:

HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.

HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

berari wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.

HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

DL doesn’t do their A330 C-checks in ATL.

Balloonchaser wrote:

Password wrote:

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

Thats not a stupid question and actually Norwegian Argentina has some of these routes on its radar. I think HAL would maybe be successful but maybe not..

If they consider LATAM, what about either MEX or PTY and a codeshare with AM or 4O at MEX or CM at PTY?

kabq737 wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.

You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

With the addition of the A321 aircraft into HA fleet, this would free some of the widebody A330-200 to be added to more destinations. There has been more talks for more East Coast destinations, but there has been also more international flights that were talked about also.

PER? I highly doubt it, Perth has multiple flights a day to DPS almost a shuttle service, very minimal market to HNL which is far more expensive and more tiring to travel too. What traffic their would be to the US mainland would be tough to win from the loyal QF, VA FF base, not to mention NZ,CX, and to some cities on the east coast - EY,EK!! Be a waste of HA aircraft.

To me seasonal winter destination make sense - BOS, DEN. MIA? Why when many holiday options so close.

Hawaiian did mention Perth a few hears back once they had the right aircraft for the job.

Password wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

Yes they can do PER-HNL-LAX or PER-HNL-JFK and sell tickets between HNL-LAX or HNL-JFK after all both HNL & JFK are in the US!. What they could not do is PER-DRW-HNL and sell tickets for local PER-DRW passengers. Always hated when I lived in Hawaii hearing the comment "I'm flying back to the US tomorrow" Here is a hint, your already IN THE US!

Password wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

You would loos the bet as per the current US-China Bilateral there are no additional rights to add any more 1st tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong) So no they won't add those anytime soon. Unless Delta or UA would be nice enough to give them one of their flights. Which would be as likely as me winning the Mrs. America contest in drag. However they have been hinting that they will expand in the south pacific.

As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.

smi0006 wrote:

To me seasonal winter destination make sense - BOS, DEN. MIA? Why when many holiday options so close.

BOS may make a better spring/summer seasonal destination.

lavalampluva wrote:

berari wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.

HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

DL doesn’t do their A330 C-checks in ATL.

I would assume as NWQ was the A330 operator that Delta took over that all C checks would be done by MSP where the ops were already at. It would cost quite a bit of money if they moved it to ATL. They still are maintaining ops in MSP so they don't have to pay off debt to MSP that required a min number of operations over a set number of years. Same reason they stayed at DTW and shut down most of CVG. The new terminal came with min annual ops for a set number of years or a big fine would be paid out. CVG did not have that issue.

rbavfan wrote:

Password wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

You would loos the bet as per the current US-China Bilateral there are no additional rights to add any more 1st tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong) So no they won't add those anytime soon. Unless Delta or UA would be nice enough to give them one of their flights. Which would be as likely as me winning the Mrs. America contest in drag. However they have been hinting that they will expand in the south pacific.

As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.

HKG aviation regulation has absolutely nothing to do with the US-China bilateral. It has its own governing authority.

As for the second part, what's stopping somebody buying such ticket anyway? I don't see it being any different than something like GRU-JFK-HND.

On the other hand, though, people have to realized that, for example, HNL-GRU is 7040nmi long. This is longer than something like SFO-BKK or SFO-SGN.

DTW-HNL is a big hole in their network. Problem with the east coast is those people would rather vacation in Florida and the Caribbean because it's closer and cheaper so there isn't a lot of market for Hawaii to the east coast.

[quote="rbavfan"
As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.[/quote]

Why they cannot? Wouldn't it be similar to DL/AA/UA offer on routes like GIG-ATL-ICN, GRU-DFW-NRT, EZE-JFK-HKG, or SCL-LAX-PEK?

Why MIA? Anyone around Miami is already an hour flight from multiple tropical destinations. Why go all the way to Hawaii?

winGl3t wrote:

[quote="rbavfan"
As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.

Why they cannot? Wouldn't it be similar to DL/AA/UA offer on routes like GIG-ATL-ICN, GRU-DFW-NRT, EZE-JFK-HKG, or SCL-LAX-PEK?[/quote]

Of course they can. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's the same as I bought ticket on Air China IAD-PEK-BKK or on ANA IAD-NRT-BKK.

smokeybandit wrote:

Why MIA? Anyone around Miami is already an hour flight from multiple tropical destinations. Why go all the way to Hawaii?

Because we all know MIA should get a non-stop flight to every single airports in the world at 10x/day frequency on A380.

Seriously, MIA doesn't even get flights to PVR or SJD, what makes one think there are demand to go even further west? Not to mention, they already have tropical destination in their backyard, then if they want to escape, Caribbean has much nicer beaches than Hawaii anyway.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

kabq737 wrote:

Balloonchaser wrote:

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.

You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

While I agree that you don’t have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel and ABQ along with much of NM is on the less fortunate side of things (you get what I mean) economically. I say that as someone who has lived here my whole life and if very involved in the city. Not trying to be insulting but I still stand by my statement.

Hawaii is an expensive destination once you arrive there. Vacationers have budgets and they realize that to make it all work, the air fare has to be cheap since all the other dollars are getting vacuumed up with hotels, meals, tours, and so on.

Hopeful would be my wish for HA to initiate HLL-DEN in the near future. I think a couple of times a week to start would certainly make a go of it. United, after years of seasonal Hawaii service, has just recently announced daily service to the islands. Their fares are high which would give HA some traction for their flights.

Frontier 14

I think it'd be interesting to see Hawaiian expand into middle America with the 321's offering one stop service to markets which might not be considered for non-stop. I think places like AUS, STL and MCI would be good candidates for this kind of service and maybe some other secondary markets which could go for Saturday only service if HA has the flexibility in their scheduling to make it work. Obviously the could market the stateside service as another option from those markets to the west coast. I think it'd be interesting to know the economics HA would need to make this kind of model work.

kabq737 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

kabq737 wrote:

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.

You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

While I agree that you don’t have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel and ABQ along with much of NM is on the less fortunate side of things (you get what I mean) economically. I say that as someone who has lived here my whole life and if very involved in the city. Not trying to be insulting but I still stand by my statement.

Sorry, my comment wasn't meant to be offensive. I'm just not sure how many cities east of the Rockies are going see see HA move in, especially where there is an incumbent carrier already with service. My guess is as more 321's come online and the 763's are gone, HA may try to move west and south, adding a couple of new Asian cities and upping some frequencies in the South Pacific. As a BNA resident who commutes to Dallas to work, I've spoken to a lot of pax over the years, and Hawaii is a desirable destination, but there are beach destinations much closer and usually within driving range.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

kabq737 wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

While I agree that you don’t have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel and ABQ along with much of NM is on the less fortunate side of things (you get what I mean) economically. I say that as someone who has lived here my whole life and if very involved in the city. Not trying to be insulting but I still stand by my statement.

Sorry, my comment wasn't meant to be offensive. I'm just not sure how many cities east of the Rockies are going see see HA move in, especially where there is an incumbent carrier already with service. My guess is as more 321's come online and the 763's are gone, HA may try to move west and south, adding a couple of new Asian cities and upping some frequencies in the South Pacific. As a BNA resident who commutes to Dallas to work, I've spoken to a lot of pax over the years, and Hawaii is a desirable destination, but there are beach destinations much closer and usually within driving range.

Oh no offense taken! You never came off like that at all I was more just stating that we both have valid points for believing that ABQ wont get Hawaii service. Sorry if I sounded too harsh.

BOS seems possible as b6 seems to feed alot of people at JFK.

SLC is east of most of their cities, I see that as a possibility. Delta flies to two cities in Hawaii but they also command a high premium for the non-stops. It's almost always a ton cheaper to do a stop in LAX even on Delta.

I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel

It is and it isn't. A lot depends upon time of year, high or low season, etc. If you time it right and really shop around, it can be a real bargain. If you're not able to, then yes, it can be quite pricy. That's the boat I've been in my last few trips there; I can only get time off from work during high season, so I wind up paying a lot.

Back on track to new routes, are there any mid-tier midwest routes that might work? Cleveland or St. Louis? Maybe San Antonio? Just tossing out cities that may already have service to HNL, but perhaps not direct to OGG or LIH, for example.

While I think conjecture threads are useless unless route planning is lurking on here to see where to drum up business, I honestly don’t see much market to the east coast. JFK is the largest market and had B6 feed and HA only does 5x a week in low season. They could probably do a few weekly flights seasonally to BOS and IAD (or even BWI) but I doubt it’s worth the long term investment.

I could definitely see ORD, DFW and IAH in the future. ORD used to have twice daily AA and UA and CO ran twice daily to IAH so there was some sort of market. Inland there’s not much: ATL is a fortress hub and everywhere else doesn’t have the mass to make it work.

I don’t think even DEN would work, but if the A321 can make it to SLC that would be a sure fire thing: tons of islanders from Hawai‘i in Utah plus connections to PPG, PPT, SYD, BNE and AKL for South Pacific Islanders and LDS travel. Not to mention giving Utah folks another option to escape the cold. Canada is sealed by AC and WS; local traffic to Canada, while slowly growing, won’t drum up business in the islands and Canadians are loyal to their national carriers.

If HA does want to make a push into the mainland, they will need to increase marketing and also invest more in IT. Their website is pretty but not particularly functional and their mobile app uses their desktop interface making it all but unusable. Why does that matter? Because when I fly DL, AS, VX or AA, I can do everything from booking to seat changes on my phone. I flew HA just the other day to KOA and it took me 10 minutes to check in on the app. All of that is part of the experience and the impression. They should make it easy as possible to sell you a ticket and get you onboard, not direct you to their Main website to click through a dozen links.

The other thing that gets my goat is when they advertise free meals in economy. Morning flights you get a biscuit; late night flights get no service; and LAS redeyes you’re lucky to see an FA. My cousin who’s a HA platinum flew economy comfort OGG-OAK-HNL last week and said the food in both directions was inedible. And he’s not a picky eater. If your moniker is free meals then give me a damn meal on all flights and make it worth it. They are investing in their meals so hopefully that will improve this new year.

I’m very critical of HA because I really want them to succeed and because they have so much potential, but like all things in the islands, they often tend to settle with being “good enough.”

klm617 wrote:

DTW-HNL is a big hole in their network.

For DL not HA.

I think Austin/San Antonio would be a good candidate for HA service - large metro areas to draw from and a relatively wealthy population that likes to travel.

dfwjim1 wrote:

I think Austin/San Antonio would be a good candidate for HA service - large metro areas to draw from and a relatively wealthy population that likes to travel.

Austin, maybe. San Antonio, nope - for the same reason they won't be getting the TATL traffic AUS is getting.

Our CEO said as recently as last week that HA is not looking at expanding to fortress hubs of the Big 3 so that pretty much rules out ORD, DEN, IAH, EWR, ATL, DFW, MSP, SLC and DTW. He has also stated repeatedly over the years that there are several cities on the East Coast that are on HA's radar. As mentioned in a previous reply, most expansion in the next few years will focus on West Coast US to neighbor island destinations (OGG, LIH, KOA) on the A321. However, don't be too surprised to see a few new long haul routes announced also. I have no inside information but if I were to place a bet, I would say BWI, PHL, YYZ and BOS would be likely candidates.

rbavfan wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

berari wrote:

HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

DL doesn’t do their A330 C-checks in ATL.

I would assume as NWQ was the A330 operator that Delta took over that all C checks would be done by MSP where the ops were already at. It would cost quite a bit of money if they moved it to ATL. They still are maintaining ops in MSP so they don't have to pay off debt to MSP that required a min number of operations over a set number of years.

Delta prepaid NW's 1992 bonds to the Metropolitan Airports Commission long ago, and employment/service guarantees are gone.

Northwest got state help when it ran into trouble in the early 1990s. In exchange for government-backed loans it made promises that included keeping its headquarters here. That agreement has been renegotiated, most recently after Delta bought Northwest in 2008 and closed the headquarters in Eagan.

The loan was due to be repaid by 2016. Patrick Hogan, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said the agency expects Delta will now pay off the loan around the beginning of 2012.

http://finance-commerce.com/2011/06/del ... sota-debt/

I think that HA is an interesting airline. They have mostly an wide body fleet (with A321's coming in the fleet) along with 717's for short haul Hawaii flights. There network to mainland US is limited to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, SJC for example, and JFK is the only east coast route for the airline. Airlines like DL, UA, and AA can serve routes like DFW, ORD, SLC, DEN, etc that HA don't need to serve. HA is fine the way they are now and other airlines can serve other markets better.

winGl3t wrote:

[quote="rbavfan"
As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.

Why they cannot? Wouldn't it be similar to DL/AA/UA offer on routes like GIG-ATL-ICN, GRU-DFW-NRT, EZE-JFK-HKG, or SCL-LAX-PEK?[/quote]

You can buy 2 separate tickets, but the airline cannot sell you a ticket from one country to another country through a US hub. There wis a difference between a customer buying 2 tickets & the airline promoting them to do it. I would think the airline would want to keep flying to that country. There are Aviation laws If they did that openly Brazil would cut their route authority to that country.

JV's are a little different as they are selling a ticket from for instance LON-ATL-MEX city would be allowed if they have a JV in place with AeroMexico. If they did not Mexico would not be happy.

NichCage wrote:

I think that HA is an interesting airline. They have mostly an wide body fleet (with A321's coming in the fleet) along with 717's for short haul Hawaii flights. There network to mainland US is limited to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, SJC for example, and JFK is the only east coast route for the airline. Airlines like DL, UA, and AA can serve routes like DFW, ORD, SLC, DEN, etc that HA don't need to serve. HA is fine the way they are now and other airlines can serve other markets better.

Don't forget LAS....a big market from Hawaii. The 321s are a good indication of short term plans...fragment Hawaii service on thinner routes.