Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ADrum23
Topic Author
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:29 am

What are the chances Hawaiian Airlines ever expands to serve cities in the eastern portion of the country (for purposes here, this includes any city east of the Rocky Mountains)? They would likely need longer haul aircraft (A330, 787, etc) if they did, do they have plans to purchase more aircraft beyond the A330 order?
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:31 am

If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).
 
kabq737
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:36 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
YVRing
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:42 am

What about service to Canada? I think the airline name alone might overcome some (but likely not enough) Canadians defaulting to AC/WS, etc...
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:46 am

YVRing wrote:
What about service to Canada? I think the airline name alone might overcome some (but likely not enough) Canadians defaulting to AC/WS, etc...

I mean.. Hawaiian may jump in with the CYVR service but I doubt that.
 
77H
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:50 am

I could certainly see HNL-BOS come to fruition. 42,758 visitors traveled to Hawaii from the BOS MSA through October. That shakes out to roughly 141 visitors a day. Additionally, HA would have a monopoly on the route and feed from their partner B6. It should also be noted, that while an average of 141 visitors a day does not fill a HA 332 by half, nonstops tend to spur additional demand and with feed from B6, the route may be viable. Lastly, with the Caribbean still very much rebounding from the hurricanes this fall, East Coast sun seekers will likely be looking for other destinations to visit.

I could also see MSP being on the radar. There have been over 55,000 visitors from the MSP area through October, or roughly 181 passengers a day. DL currently flies the route, but only seasonally. However, unlike BOS, HA would not have the luxury of feed from a partner and would be more reliant on O&D. A HNL-MSP add by HA would most likely see DLrespond by matching service frequency having the benefit of numerous capable aircraft types to better match demand.

For now, I don't see HA targeting any hub cities with existing service as they would again be more reliant on O&D, have minimal brand recognition relative to the incumbent hubbed carrier and an almost non-existent frequent flier base, again relative to the incumbent carrier.

From what we've seem from HA so far, I expect them to claw away at the combined AS/VX's market share in the West and continue their international expansion where possible.

77H
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7419
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:06 am

When I worked for Menzies in IAH, there was talk over what account manager would handle the HA account which signals at least to me that there was serious talk of HA coming here.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Password
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:08 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).


Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.
 
User avatar
Jamake1
Posts: 1010
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:13 am

When Hawaiian combines with JetBlue, you’ll see an expanded east coast presence.
Come fly the sun.
 
Balloonchaser
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:22 am

Password wrote:
And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

Thats not a stupid question and actually Norwegian Argentina has some of these routes on its radar. I think HAL would maybe be successful but maybe not.. :|
 
77H
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:29 am

TWA772LR wrote:
When I worked for Menzies in IAH, there was talk over what account manager would handle the HA account which signals at least to me that there was serious talk of HA coming here.


"The HA Account" to a Ground Handling Company could mean anything from full blown service to HA's Football Charter Flights.
IAH is UA's second largest hub. It already has a nonstop to HNL and there are numerous 1-stop options to all the other islands. I can't imagine IAH of all places being anywhere near the top of HA's route planning totem pole.

As posted above, I think that HA will continue to try and grab market share AS gained after AQ's demise and didn't have an aircraft type to compete. This expansion, as we've already seen announcements for will center in the West Coast to the Neighbor Islands. HA also has WN to consider so getting a stronger foothold between the West Coast and all of Hawaii is important.

There are only a handful of cities large enough to support WB service to Hawaii and most of them already have entrenched carriers operating them replete with brand recognition, frequent flier bases and more comprehensive networks to feed their nonstop's above O&D feed. I believe HA would be most successful where there is limited competition and feed from a partner.

77H
 
usairways85
Posts: 4184
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:48 am

BOS is not exactly in the top 5 cities I think of as a connection point when I want to get to Hawaii. Pretty much back tracking on every route making it a 12-15 hour journey to Hawaii
 
globalflyer
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:59 am

I am surprised that HA has not started DEN nor SLC... I know they are UA and DL strong holds... but...
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:11 am

HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4384
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:15 am

I'm not sure there's that much expansion to be done on the east coast. Flights to Florida and the Caribbean are much cheaper, much shorter, and the destinations themselves are far cheaper. Not to mention that Hawaii just isn't as popular of a destination as it is on the west coast. Even flights to Europe are shorter and often cheaper. I think HA service to the east coast will probably be limited to their existing JFK route. UA runs from EWR and I guess seasonally from IAD, but US struggled and ultimately failed from CLT, and I'm not sure they'd fare any better post merger. I also don't think it helps that Hawaiian has very little brand recognition on the east coast. I can't think of any east coast cities outside of New York where they could run a viable nonstop route.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5755
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:45 am

I've heard that IAD has been on HA's radar, whether that is true currently, I'd have no way of knowing.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
berari
Posts: 920
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:58 am

lavalampluva wrote:
HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.


HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:32 am

berari wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.


HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

DL doesn’t do their A330 C-checks in ATL. ;)
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3688
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:59 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
Password wrote:
And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.

Thats not a stupid question and actually Norwegian Argentina has some of these routes on its radar. I think HAL would maybe be successful but maybe not.. :|


If they consider LATAM, what about either MEX or PTY and a codeshare with AM or 4O at MEX or CM at PTY?
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:06 am

kabq737 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.


You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.
 
Xtremespeed01
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:10 am

With the addition of the A321 aircraft into HA fleet, this would free some of the widebody A330-200 to be added to more destinations. There has been more talks for more East Coast destinations, but there has been also more international flights that were talked about also.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2593
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:17 am

PER? I highly doubt it, Perth has multiple flights a day to DPS almost a shuttle service, very minimal market to HNL which is far more expensive and more tiring to travel too. What traffic their would be to the US mainland would be tough to win from the loyal QF, VA FF base, not to mention NZ,CX, and to some cities on the east coast - EY,EK!! Be a waste of HA aircraft.

To me seasonal winter destination make sense - BOS, DEN. MIA? Why when many holiday options so close.
 
waoz1
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:30 am

Hawaiian did mention Perth a few hears back once they had the right aircraft for the job.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3639
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:36 pm

Password wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).


Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.


Yes they can do PER-HNL-LAX or PER-HNL-JFK and sell tickets between HNL-LAX or HNL-JFK after all both HNL & JFK are in the US!. What they could not do is PER-DRW-HNL and sell tickets for local PER-DRW passengers. Always hated when I lived in Hawaii hearing the comment "I'm flying back to the US tomorrow" Here is a hint, your already IN THE US!
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3639
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:54 pm

Password wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).


Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.


You would loos the bet as per the current US-China Bilateral there are no additional rights to add any more 1st tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong) So no they won't add those anytime soon. Unless Delta or UA would be nice enough to give them one of their flights. Which would be as likely as me winning the Mrs. America contest in drag. However they have been hinting that they will expand in the south pacific.

As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3222
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:01 pm

smi0006 wrote:
To me seasonal winter destination make sense - BOS, DEN. MIA? Why when many holiday options so close.


BOS may make a better spring/summer seasonal destination.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3639
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:09 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
berari wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
HA has their A330 c-checks done at MSP. It makes sense to rotate them through.


HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

DL doesn’t do their A330 C-checks in ATL. ;)


I would assume as NWQ was the A330 operator that Delta took over that all C checks would be done by MSP where the ops were already at. It would cost quite a bit of money if they moved it to ATL. They still are maintaining ops in MSP so they don't have to pay off debt to MSP that required a min number of operations over a set number of years. Same reason they stayed at DTW and shut down most of CVG. The new terminal came with min annual ops for a set number of years or a big fine would be paid out. CVG did not have that issue.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:27 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Password wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).


Would HA be able to us HNL as a connecting point for Perth - US Mainland travelers? That would be a great route under those circumstances. I dont see any new cities that HA could reasonably serve on the mainland. Maybe SLC, or DEN could work. Tuscon and Fresno have populations of around 1 million. A non-stop to Fresno could take away some connecting traffic from their competitors. I think they'll just stick to adding more existing cities - outer island routes.

I also think they're more concerned with untapped international routes. Maybe low frequency to Tonga, Guam, or even fiji with an A321? Kona - secondary Japan (Osaka?). You know theyd start OGG-Japan in a heartbeat if they made the runway long enough. Id bet good money that Hong Kong and Shanghai will be routes soon enough, and I think Melbourne has to be on their radar as well.

And for my most ridiculous suggestion... What about South America? Could they offer a non-stop to a large city over there? Santiago? Lima? Rio? A lot of surfer traffic from S. America, especially Brazil. They could offer connections to Asia and could save South American travelers who connect in North America a lot of money since they could theoretically do a 1-stop route to Asia quicker (and most likely cheaper) than anyone else thanks to geography.


You would loos the bet as per the current US-China Bilateral there are no additional rights to add any more 1st tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong) So no they won't add those anytime soon. Unless Delta or UA would be nice enough to give them one of their flights. Which would be as likely as me winning the Mrs. America contest in drag. However they have been hinting that they will expand in the south pacific.

As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.


HKG aviation regulation has absolutely nothing to do with the US-China bilateral. It has its own governing authority.

As for the second part, what's stopping somebody buying such ticket anyway? I don't see it being any different than something like GRU-JFK-HND.

On the other hand, though, people have to realized that, for example, HNL-GRU is 7040nmi long. This is longer than something like SFO-BKK or SFO-SGN.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5409
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm

DTW-HNL is a big hole in their network. Problem with the east coast is those people would rather vacation in Florida and the Caribbean because it's closer and cheaper so there isn't a lot of market for Hawaii to the east coast.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winGl3t
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:33 pm

[quote="rbavfan"
As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.[/quote]

Why they cannot? Wouldn't it be similar to DL/AA/UA offer on routes like GIG-ATL-ICN, GRU-DFW-NRT, EZE-JFK-HKG, or SCL-LAX-PEK?
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:39 pm

Why MIA? Anyone around Miami is already an hour flight from multiple tropical destinations. Why go all the way to Hawaii?
 
dcaviation
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:04 pm

winGl3t wrote:
[quote="rbavfan"
As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.


Why they cannot? Wouldn't it be similar to DL/AA/UA offer on routes like GIG-ATL-ICN, GRU-DFW-NRT, EZE-JFK-HKG, or SCL-LAX-PEK?[/quote]

Of course they can. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's the same as I bought ticket on Air China IAD-PEK-BKK or on ANA IAD-NRT-BKK.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:40 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Why MIA? Anyone around Miami is already an hour flight from multiple tropical destinations. Why go all the way to Hawaii?


Because we all know MIA should get a non-stop flight to every single airports in the world at 10x/day frequency on A380. :duck:

Seriously, MIA doesn't even get flights to PVR or SJD, what makes one think there are demand to go even further west? Not to mention, they already have tropical destination in their backyard, then if they want to escape, Caribbean has much nicer beaches than Hawaii anyway.
 
kabq737
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:25 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
If you want my opinion.. I see KDEN, KORD, KATL, KBOS, KABQ, KMIA and KMSP being the only possibilities of even possible future service. In the future I also see Hawaiian Adding a Perth-Honolulu flight aswell as a PANC (Seasonal).

I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.


You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

While I agree that you don’t have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel and ABQ along with much of NM is on the less fortunate side of things (you get what I mean) economically. I say that as someone who has lived here my whole life and if very involved in the city. Not trying to be insulting but I still stand by my statement.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Hawaii is an expensive destination once you arrive there. Vacationers have budgets and they realize that to make it all work, the air fare has to be cheap since all the other dollars are getting vacuumed up with hotels, meals, tours, and so on.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:53 pm

Hopeful would be my wish for HA to initiate HLL-DEN in the near future. I think a couple of times a week to start would certainly make a go of it. United, after years of seasonal Hawaii service, has just recently announced daily service to the islands. Their fares are high which would give HA some traction for their flights.

Frontier 14
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:56 pm

I think it'd be interesting to see Hawaiian expand into middle America with the 321's offering one stop service to markets which might not be considered for non-stop. I think places like AUS, STL and MCI would be good candidates for this kind of service and maybe some other secondary markets which could go for Saturday only service if HA has the flexibility in their scheduling to make it work. Obviously the could market the stateside service as another option from those markets to the west coast. I think it'd be interesting to know the economics HA would need to make this kind of model work.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:28 pm

kabq737 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
I don’t see us getting any Hawaiian service here in ABQ. The population here is not very wealthy and it’s a short hop to California in order to connect to a Hawaiian flight. I won’t say never but I’d say it’s extremely unlikely.


You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

While I agree that you don’t have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel and ABQ along with much of NM is on the less fortunate side of things (you get what I mean) economically. I say that as someone who has lived here my whole life and if very involved in the city. Not trying to be insulting but I still stand by my statement.


Sorry, my comment wasn't meant to be offensive. I'm just not sure how many cities east of the Rockies are going see see HA move in, especially where there is an incumbent carrier already with service. My guess is as more 321's come online and the 763's are gone, HA may try to move west and south, adding a couple of new Asian cities and upping some frequencies in the South Pacific. As a BNA resident who commutes to Dallas to work, I've spoken to a lot of pax over the years, and Hawaii is a desirable destination, but there are beach destinations much closer and usually within driving range.
 
kabq737
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:34 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:

You don't have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii. The issue is there's probably not enough traffic from any of the OP's listed cities. Several already have a nonstop, and each of those have no competition. Hawaii is getting a lot of new services, mostly from the west coast. They'll be over-served at the rate things are going.

While I agree that you don’t have to be wealthy to go to Hawaii I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel and ABQ along with much of NM is on the less fortunate side of things (you get what I mean) economically. I say that as someone who has lived here my whole life and if very involved in the city. Not trying to be insulting but I still stand by my statement.


Sorry, my comment wasn't meant to be offensive. I'm just not sure how many cities east of the Rockies are going see see HA move in, especially where there is an incumbent carrier already with service. My guess is as more 321's come online and the 763's are gone, HA may try to move west and south, adding a couple of new Asian cities and upping some frequencies in the South Pacific. As a BNA resident who commutes to Dallas to work, I've spoken to a lot of pax over the years, and Hawaii is a desirable destination, but there are beach destinations much closer and usually within driving range.

Oh no offense taken! You never came off like that at all I was more just stating that we both have valid points for believing that ABQ wont get Hawaii service. Sorry if I sounded too harsh.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4912
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:39 pm

BOS seems possible as b6 seems to feed alot of people at JFK.

SLC is east of most of their cities, I see that as a possibility. Delta flies to two cities in Hawaii but they also command a high premium for the non-stops. It's almost always a ton cheaper to do a stop in LAX even on Delta.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:55 pm

I also still stand by my statement as Hawaii is still an expensive place to travel


It is and it isn't. A lot depends upon time of year, high or low season, etc. If you time it right and really shop around, it can be a real bargain. If you're not able to, then yes, it can be quite pricy. That's the boat I've been in my last few trips there; I can only get time off from work during high season, so I wind up paying a lot.

Back on track to new routes, are there any mid-tier midwest routes that might work? Cleveland or St. Louis? Maybe San Antonio? Just tossing out cities that may already have service to HNL, but perhaps not direct to OGG or LIH, for example.
 
obelau24
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:08 pm

While I think conjecture threads are useless unless route planning is lurking on here to see where to drum up business, I honestly don’t see much market to the east coast. JFK is the largest market and had B6 feed and HA only does 5x a week in low season. They could probably do a few weekly flights seasonally to BOS and IAD (or even BWI) but I doubt it’s worth the long term investment.

I could definitely see ORD, DFW and IAH in the future. ORD used to have twice daily AA and UA and CO ran twice daily to IAH so there was some sort of market. Inland there’s not much: ATL is a fortress hub and everywhere else doesn’t have the mass to make it work.

I don’t think even DEN would work, but if the A321 can make it to SLC that would be a sure fire thing: tons of islanders from Hawai‘i in Utah plus connections to PPG, PPT, SYD, BNE and AKL for South Pacific Islanders and LDS travel. Not to mention giving Utah folks another option to escape the cold. Canada is sealed by AC and WS; local traffic to Canada, while slowly growing, won’t drum up business in the islands and Canadians are loyal to their national carriers.

If HA does want to make a push into the mainland, they will need to increase marketing and also invest more in IT. Their website is pretty but not particularly functional and their mobile app uses their desktop interface making it all but unusable. Why does that matter? Because when I fly DL, AS, VX or AA, I can do everything from booking to seat changes on my phone. I flew HA just the other day to KOA and it took me 10 minutes to check in on the app. All of that is part of the experience and the impression. They should make it easy as possible to sell you a ticket and get you onboard, not direct you to their Main website to click through a dozen links.

The other thing that gets my goat is when they advertise free meals in economy. Morning flights you get a biscuit; late night flights get no service; and LAS redeyes you’re lucky to see an FA. My cousin who’s a HA platinum flew economy comfort OGG-OAK-HNL last week and said the food in both directions was inedible. And he’s not a picky eater. If your moniker is free meals then give me a damn meal on all flights and make it worth it. They are investing in their meals so hopefully that will improve this new year.

I’m very critical of HA because I really want them to succeed and because they have so much potential, but like all things in the islands, they often tend to settle with being “good enough.”
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3466
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
DTW-HNL is a big hole in their network.
For DL not HA.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2492
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:24 pm

I think Austin/San Antonio would be a good candidate for HA service - large metro areas to draw from and a relatively wealthy population that likes to travel.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:51 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
I think Austin/San Antonio would be a good candidate for HA service - large metro areas to draw from and a relatively wealthy population that likes to travel.


Austin, maybe. San Antonio, nope - for the same reason they won't be getting the TATL traffic AUS is getting.
 
HALFA
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:53 am

Our CEO said as recently as last week that HA is not looking at expanding to fortress hubs of the Big 3 so that pretty much rules out ORD, DEN, IAH, EWR, ATL, DFW, MSP, SLC and DTW. He has also stated repeatedly over the years that there are several cities on the East Coast that are on HA's radar. As mentioned in a previous reply, most expansion in the next few years will focus on West Coast US to neighbor island destinations (OGG, LIH, KOA) on the A321. However, don't be too surprised to see a few new long haul routes announced also. I have no inside information but if I were to place a bet, I would say BWI, PHL, YYZ and BOS would be likely candidates.
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8785
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:07 am

rbavfan wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
berari wrote:

HA also gets its in flight products from Coca Cola. Maybe it should rotate through ATL since it's Coke's headquarters.

DL doesn’t do their A330 C-checks in ATL. ;)


I would assume as NWQ was the A330 operator that Delta took over that all C checks would be done by MSP where the ops were already at. It would cost quite a bit of money if they moved it to ATL. They still are maintaining ops in MSP so they don't have to pay off debt to MSP that required a min number of operations over a set number of years.


Delta prepaid NW's 1992 bonds to the Metropolitan Airports Commission long ago, and employment/service guarantees are gone.

Northwest got state help when it ran into trouble in the early 1990s. In exchange for government-backed loans it made promises that included keeping its headquarters here. That agreement has been renegotiated, most recently after Delta bought Northwest in 2008 and closed the headquarters in Eagan.

The loan was due to be repaid by 2016. Patrick Hogan, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said the agency expects Delta will now pay off the loan around the beginning of 2012.


http://finance-commerce.com/2011/06/del ... sota-debt/
 
NichCage
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:12 am

I think that HA is an interesting airline. They have mostly an wide body fleet (with A321's coming in the fleet) along with 717's for short haul Hawaii flights. There network to mainland US is limited to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, SJC for example, and JFK is the only east coast route for the airline. Airlines like DL, UA, and AA can serve routes like DFW, ORD, SLC, DEN, etc that HA don't need to serve. HA is fine the way they are now and other airlines can serve other markets better.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3639
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:14 am

winGl3t wrote:
[quote="rbavfan"
As for offering connections from South American countries to Asia. They cannot. Non of the South American countries would allow them to sell a ticket such as GIG-HNL-HND where the passenger is flying just to HND from GIG. They also can't sell it that way if they are staying a few days in HNL. However if they buy a ticket GIG-HNL and after staying a week or to decide to fly Hawaiian to HND. on a separate ticket they can do so. But expect to have to buy 2 separate tickets to get back tho GIG as well.


Why they cannot? Wouldn't it be similar to DL/AA/UA offer on routes like GIG-ATL-ICN, GRU-DFW-NRT, EZE-JFK-HKG, or SCL-LAX-PEK?[/quote]

You can buy 2 separate tickets, but the airline cannot sell you a ticket from one country to another country through a US hub. There wis a difference between a customer buying 2 tickets & the airline promoting them to do it. I would think the airline would want to keep flying to that country. There are Aviation laws If they did that openly Brazil would cut their route authority to that country.

JV's are a little different as they are selling a ticket from for instance LON-ATL-MEX city would be allowed if they have a JV in place with AeroMexico. If they did not Mexico would not be happy.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1835
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: Will Hawaiian Airlines ever expand to include more destinations in the eastern US?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:21 am

NichCage wrote:
I think that HA is an interesting airline. They have mostly an wide body fleet (with A321's coming in the fleet) along with 717's for short haul Hawaii flights. There network to mainland US is limited to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, SJC for example, and JFK is the only east coast route for the airline. Airlines like DL, UA, and AA can serve routes like DFW, ORD, SLC, DEN, etc that HA don't need to serve. HA is fine the way they are now and other airlines can serve other markets better.


Don't forget LAS....a big market from Hawaii. The 321s are a good indication of short term plans...fragment Hawaii service on thinner routes.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos