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ODwyerPW
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:48 pm

Wow. Looking forward to news of future 737 and 145 family replacements!
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:54 am

Embraer with government approval signed “master transaction agreement” for sale of 80 percent stake commercial division to Boeing.

Only pending item in process is a final shareholder vote scheduled for Feb 26th.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 84096.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-embr ... SKCN1PI32U
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LAXintl
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:05 pm

At special shareholder meeting, 96.8 per cent of all votes cast were in favour of the transaction. Shareholders approved the proposal that will establish a joint venture made up of the commercial aircraft and services operations of Embraer. Boeing will hold an 80 per cent ownership stake in the new company, and Embraer will hold the remaining 20 per cent.
The transaction values Embraer’s commercial aircraft operations at $5.26 billion, and contemplates a value of $4.2 billion for Boeing’s 80 per cent ownership stake in the joint venture.


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 02311.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:10 pm

LAXintl wrote:
At special shareholder meeting, 96.8 per cent of all votes cast were in favour of the transaction. Shareholders approved the proposal that will establish a joint venture made up of the commercial aircraft and services operations of Embraer. Boeing will hold an 80 per cent ownership stake in the new company, and Embraer will hold the remaining 20 per cent.
The transaction values Embraer’s commercial aircraft operations at $5.26 billion, and contemplates a value of $4.2 billion for Boeing’s 80 per cent ownership stake in the joint venture.


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 02311.html


Good news!
I didn't read the whole thread but will Boeing re brand the planes in similar fashion what Airbus did?
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:49 am

Hold your breath: it´s just one more step ...

Now will come the approval of regulatory agencies in both Brazil and the United States;

(and another attempt by the unions to bar the agreement)

Then the government approval or veto to the final agreement;

(and another attempt by the unions to bar the agreement)

And finally (and if nobody from the Brazilian congress and the unions try to bar the agreement again), finally it will be signed ...
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:42 pm

I must confess that there is no surprise in this nomination for the position of CEO of JV Boeing / Embraer (temporarily called "NewCo") ...

John Slattery has been a great Embraer enthusiast since 2011 when he was hired as senior vice president responsible for sales financing and asset management.
He was named president and CEO of Embraer Commercial Aviation and executive vice president of Embraer SA in 2016.

Embraer's current CEO, Paulo César de Souza e Silva, will step down from the manufacturer on April 22 and will be replaced by an executive recruited externally.

Source: https://atwonline.com/manufacturers/sla ... t-ventures

Slattery, Allen to lead Boeing-Embraer joint ventures

Excerpt:

"Embraer’s John Slattery will be the first CEO of the Boeing-Embraer commercial aircraft joint venture (JV) the manufacturers expect to launch by the end of the year, reporting to Boeing’s Marc Allen , who will take a new position in charge of Boeing’s JVs with Embraer, the companies announced March 20.

Slattery is currently CEO and president of the Embraer Commercial Aviation division and EVP of corporate Embraer."
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:46 pm

I wonder if Embraer can step in and develop 150-200 seats clean sheet and leave boeing "mom" to focus on the 797.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:54 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
I wonder if Embraer can step in and develop 150-200 seats clean sheet and leave boeing "mom" to focus on the 797.


That is the plan ... :old: :old: :old: :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:
 
mxaxai
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:57 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
I wonder if Embraer can step in and develop 150-200 seats clean sheet and leave boeing "mom" to focus on the 797.

Not by themselves. The required production rate will need Boeings expertise from the 737. The required use of mass produced CFRP and advanced aluminium alloys will require Boeings expertise from the 787 and 777X. Moving the NSA completely to Embraer would overwhelm them like the CSeries did for Bombardier.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:21 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Moving the NSA completely to Embraer would overwhelm them like the CSeries did for Bombardier.


I think Embraer can handle it. Bombardier was overwhelmed due to a lack of money and poor management. Two problems that a Boeing owned Embraer will not have. It's not like Embraer has any new projects to work on at the moment. The E2, KC390 etc. are all pretty much finished.
 
many321
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:37 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Moving the NSA completely to Embraer would overwhelm them like the CSeries did for Bombardier.


I think Embraer can handle it. Bombardier was overwhelmed due to a lack of money and poor management. Two problems that a Boeing owned Embraer will not have. It's not like Embraer has any new projects to work on at the moment. The E2, KC390 etc. are all pretty much finished.


I agree. Seeing how 737MAX unraveling before our eyes, it would be better for Embraer under close supervision from Boeing to start building the NSA as soon as possible since I highly doubt a software patch is going to fix the issues the MAX has.
 
CX747
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:04 pm

737Max unravelling? Sorry but let's stop the mob mentality. The program is not unraveling and more than likely, in 60-90 days all the Max's will be airborne again. Crashes are always hard, as people lost their lives. That loss is permanent and far out reaches any fanboy statements or beliefs.


An updated format for the MCAS is in inbound and the program will be just fine. There is nothing structurally wrong with the aircraft. All arrows point to additional sensors providing information and a potential change of the checklist to follow.

I am excited to see what the JV turns out first.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Thu May 23, 2019 7:59 pm

Now we have an official name for the JV: BOEING BRASIL COMMERCIAL

Source: (in portuguese ... please use Google Translate to help):

https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mercado/2 ... ivil.shtml
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Thu May 23, 2019 8:04 pm

Some excerpts translated from original source cited above:

"There is still doubt among executives of the new company about the impact of the acquisition on the market and, especially, the fear of hurting Brazilian political sensitivities.
Hence Brazil with "s", although followed by "commercial" in English."


"The Boeing Co. will not be able to use the name Embraer, so as not to be confused with the remaining Brazilian company that will take care of defense and security products, as well as the executive aviation area."

In engineering, the biggest challenge is the reality that both Boeing and old Embraer will be subcontracted to each other.
This has never happened to the two companies, and the team working on corporate disintegration provides a catalog of up to 19,000 items that one will provide to the other.
 
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Thu May 23, 2019 8:52 pm

Image
 
720B
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Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 10:17 am

As per Sam Chui's website, Boeing Brasil – Commercial. is the new name of the partnership between Boeing and Embraer



https://samchui.com/2019/05/24/boeing-b ... OfEPBZKhEZ


As part of the agreement, Boeing agreed to pay $4.2 billion to buy 80% of Embraer’s operation making passenger jets with fewer than 150 seats. Embraer will retain a 20% stake and the headquarters of this joint-venture will continue in São José dos Campos.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 10:23 am

The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.
 
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keesje
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 10:25 am

Interesting Boeing Brasil. Congratualtion everyone, let's hope this becomes a long & productive cooperation !
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 10:32 am

speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?
Thanks and best Regards
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PPVRA
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 1:23 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?


Even more predatory, considering what they “paid” for the CS.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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BlueSky1976
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Fri May 24, 2019 1:35 pm

R.I.P. Embraer...
Fortunately, the name will live on their bizjets and military aircraft.
Tarriffs are taxes. Taxation is theft. You are not entitled to anything.
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par13del
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Fri May 24, 2019 1:36 pm

keesje wrote:
I wonder if the Boeing take-over will go the same way, or there will be a more old school Wallstreet "business like approach": reduce costs in Brasil only,

So all the talk about quality issues at Boeing and the MAX grounding being the result of letting staff go in the USA was just talk and not factual?
I don't think you can have it both ways.
If you disagree with the tie up that's fine, there are a lot of factual reasons that can be sited to plead your case, jobs cuts in Brasil only because they are not doing so in the USA is not one of them.
 
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Fri May 24, 2019 1:53 pm

par13del wrote:
keesje wrote:
I wonder if the Boeing take-over will go the same way, or there will be a more old school Wallstreet "business like approach": reduce costs in Brasil only,

So all the talk about quality issues at Boeing and the MAX grounding being the result of letting staff go in the USA was just talk and not factual?
I don't think you can have it both ways.


? Not sure I understand. MAX is a fully US based project. Merging the to companies instead of absorbing old school, might create new inspiration, insights and benefits.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 2:06 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?


The CS program sale was preceded by earlier Boeing predatory pricings (like offering 737-700s at $23M to UA) specifically tailored to destroy the CSeries program and bankrupt BBD - as openly admitted. (Boeing feared an eventual "CASM killer" CS500??). Worst, Boeing later followed up with this hypocrite dumping complaint.

So instead of innovating with a totally new 737 replacement, Boeing figured it was cheaper to just murder the competition that had the guts to bring innovation in the market.

But hey, beside above Boeing's rapacious behavior (you see, I did not use the word predatory :smile: ), I agree that both Airbus and Boeing use rather aggressive "marketing" tactics...

The next OEM that will attempt to crack this duopoly will require MASSIVE government aids (or possesses massive amount of money to burn). Currently only China can get away with such massive government aid (and technology "borrowing") with impunity - but still, they're not there yet.
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Fri May 24, 2019 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Fri May 24, 2019 2:17 pm

Can’t wait to fly on a BBC-195 next month :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do they not think about how it sounds before they implement these things?
 
Bricktop
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 2:27 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?


The CS program sale was preceded by earlier Boeing predatory pricings (like offering 737-700s at $23M to UA) specifically tailored to destroy the CSeries program and bankrupt BBD - as openly admitted. (Boeing feared an eventual "CASM killer" CS500??). Worst, Boeing later followed up with this hypocrite dumping complaint.

So instead of innovating with a totally new 737 replacement, Boeing figured it was cheaper to just murder the competition that had the guts to bring innovation in the market.

But hey, beside above Boeing's rapacious behavior (you see, I did not use the word predatory :smile: ), I agree that both Airbus and Boeing use rather aggressive "marketing" tactics...

The next OEM that will attempt to crack this duopoly will require MASSIVE government aids (or possesses massive amount of money to burn). Currently only China can get away with such massive government aid (and technology "borrowing") with impunity - but still, they're not there yet.

Come on now. The BCS program was circling the drain in spite of whatever Boeing was doing. Sure, Boeing tried to put their boot on BBD's neck, but that backfired didn't it? Airbus had the most to lose with the BCS5, because at the time it would be attacking their cash cow A320, and they did a very very smart thing in scooping up half the program. (Boeing had a nice WB business, and the A350 was still somewhat in its infancy). I am still not sure of exactly how committed Airbus is to the scaling up production of the A220. Both OEMs acquisitions I think are defensive towards their own duopoly lines. Grab a little engineering talent, look under the skirts of the BCS and the E2, and then file them away.
 
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Fri May 24, 2019 2:29 pm

Armodeen wrote:
Can’t wait to fly on a BBC-195 next month :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do they not think about how it sounds before they implement these things?

Not British Broadcasting Corporation? :duck:
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 2:35 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


You sound like Apple vs android, ford vs chevy, mac vs pc zealot.
Instead of pushing for safer environment you want a monopoly. :boggled: :boggled:
Were you same during the CS series takeover?

This is good news and I bet the new BBC venture will give us a great bird in the future.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 2:54 pm

Bricktop wrote:
The BCS program was circling the drain in spite of whatever Boeing was doing. Sure, Boeing tried to put their boot on BBD's neck, but that backfired didn't it?...

I totally agree that BBD did not have the massive financial capacity required to undertake such a project. It also spent (wasted) too much capital on a useless program (Lear 85), while also simultaneously developing a totally new Global (7500). Definitely bad risk management here. (The only positive was keeping busy its engineers in a somewhat efficient sequence).

But BBD could not have predicted the CSeries would face such tremendous predatory behavior from the duopoly. FWIW, Embraer did face any of that with its 190/195E2s - maybe Embraer was already sleeping with Boeing?.

==> But anyways you look at it, from the moment the duopoly considered the CSeries as a treat, the CSeries was doomed. Again, any OEM that will attempt to crack this duopoly will require MASSIVE government aids.
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Fri May 24, 2019 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 3:02 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
==> But anyways you look at it, from the moment the duopoly considered the CSeries as a treat, the CSeries was doomed. Again, any OEM that will attempt to crack this duopoly will require MASSIVE government aids.

No disagreement on that point. A WTO complaint filed by both Airbus and Boeing would also be likely if they ever became a threat to the comfortable duopoly. I am pretty sure that the OEMs like the duopoly situation way more than their respective fanboys do. ;)
 
ELBOB
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 3:16 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Instead of pushing for safer environment you want a monopoly. :boggled: :boggled:
Were you same during the CS series takeover?


Quoi?

He is complaining that competition has been *reduced*. How is that favouring a monopoly?

The Airbus take-over of Bombardier reduced competition. So does this; Boeing has tidily eliminated the threat from Embraer and for a miniscule amount of cash.

It's hard to believe that 25 years ago there were five players in the commercial jet market, plus the possibility of Russian competition emerging. Now the only hope is that China can build-out its support network before Airbus and Boeing squeeze them into a box, too.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Fri May 24, 2019 3:33 pm

The Legacy is ERJ135 based.

I wonder if the JointVenture (sorry BBC is hard to get my mind around... too similar to Bombardier) gets access to the 135-140-145 products? (well if they want to)
learning never stops.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 3:37 pm

ELBOB wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
Instead of pushing for safer environment you want a monopoly. :boggled: :boggled:
Were you same during the CS series takeover?


Quoi?

He is complaining that competition has been *reduced*. How is that favouring a monopoly?

The Airbus take-over of Bombardier reduced competition. So does this; Boeing has tidily eliminated the threat from Embraer and for a miniscule amount of cash.

It's hard to believe that 25 years ago there were five players in the commercial jet market, plus the possibility of Russian competition emerging. Now the only hope is that China can build-out its support network before Airbus and Boeing squeeze them into a box, too.


There was never a real threat from Embraer. When you look at boeing progression of sales of you will see it's the -8 and up not under that makes the cash.
Now you have Boeing that can focus on that segment and BBC on the lower one.
Not to mention now Embraer has access to info that weren't previously accessible. I'm almost certain it will benefit them greatly in the end.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 3:43 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
But BBD could not have predicted the CSeries would face such tremendous predatory behavior from the duopoly.


Huh?

You think Airbus and Boeing wouldn’t come out swinging to protect their cash cows? Is it really that hard to predict this?

Embraer specifically designed the Ejets to remain below the 737/320 fight. At best, the E195-E2, a single model of an entire family, nibbles at Airbus and Boeing. And that’s a bit of a stretch, already.

The CS is a full on attack on the 737-700 and A319.

Bombardier’s management are complete idiots for thinking they had a chance picking a fight, all by themselves, with companies multiple times their strength.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
GmvAfcs
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 4:25 pm

PPVRA wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Bombardier’s management are complete idiots for thinking they had a chance picking a fight, all by themselves, with companies multiple times their strength.


This quote summarizes all the mess we are. The CSeries development made the duopoly even stronger. If BBD had just made an aircraft to counter-react the E-Jets category, probably everything would be as it was 15 years ago. Maybe if BBD and Embraer had left the passions from the early ERJ145 and CRJ200 fights, they could have merged in a single company with much more chances competing against the duopoly.
 
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Fri May 24, 2019 4:45 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?


The CS program sale was preceded by earlier Boeing predatory pricings (like offering 737-700s at $23M to UA) specifically tailored to destroy the CSeries program and bankrupt BBD - as openly admitted. (Boeing feared an eventual "CASM killer" CS500??). Worst, Boeing later followed up with this hypocrite dumping complaint.

So instead of innovating with a totally new 737 replacement, Boeing figured it was cheaper to just murder the competition that had the guts to bring innovation in the market.

But hey, beside above Boeing's rapacious behavior (you see, I did not use the word predatory :smile: ), I agree that both Airbus and Boeing use rather aggressive "marketing" tactics...

The next OEM that will attempt to crack this duopoly will require MASSIVE government aids (or possesses massive amount of money to burn). Currently only China can get away with such massive government aid (and technology "borrowing") with impunity - but still, they're not there yet.

The issue is, Boeing could still make a profit off their prior generation mass produced product.

Economy of scales really matter. Airbus and Boeing have it. Each delivers an aircraft at about 69% of the cost of an equivalent aircraft made at 100 per year. That is the benefit of economies if scale.

So Boeing made a rational choice. Airbus did the same thing to Douglas back when economics of scale was less adventageous, but there was still an advantage.

There is a reason Airbus naturally brings an advantage to the A220. Their rivit buying is in staggering batch sizing. Same with seals, windows, wire, connectors, and lavatories. I know Airbus already squeezed down Zodiac pricing amount many vendors. In return, they have committed to a production ramp.

It isn't just a duopoly, there are reasons Airbus and Boeing are so competitive. Aerospace isn't a large enough market for three.

Now we will see the same with the E2. I fully expect quite a few vendors to shift. However, this JV needs volume of E2 production. That means sales

Lightsaber
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing Partnership confirmed

Fri May 24, 2019 9:59 pm

par13del wrote:
I wonder if the Boeing take-over will go the same way, or there will be a more old school Wallstreet "business like approach": reduce costs in Brasil only,
So all the talk about quality issues at Boeing and the MAX grounding being the result of letting staff go in the USA was just talk and not factual?
I don't think you can have it both ways.
If you disagree with the tie up that's fine, there are a lot of factual reasons that can be sited to plead your case, jobs cuts in Brasil only because they are not doing so in the USA is not one of them.


I'm not sure I understand your point of view.
As an insider, maybe I can point this out:

About one hundred people work in Brazil and the USA in the so-called "carve-out" or unravel the commercial aviation of the current Embraer's body.
The separation of the commercial aviation sector follows, but not without difficulties.
The biggest challenge so far is in the area of information technology, which was highly integrated with Embraer - and which has secured much of its reputation as a fast-paced company in processes. Here, where information is sensitive as far as projects in the military area are concerned, there is one of the greatest obstacles to integration.
In engineering, the main obstacle is the fact that both Boeing and old Embraer will be subcontracted to each other in new projects probably within a neutral unit and in system that one remunerating the other the costs and vice versa.
The team that works in the disintegration also foresees a catalog of up to 19 thousand items that one will provide to the other.
The new company is expected to employ about 10,000 of Embraer's current 18,500 employees (16,500 of them in Brazil).
Another fact unknown to many is that the old Embraer that will not be part of the JV will be able to develop on its own jets up to 50 seats or turboprops without limit of seats.
Still within the commercial area that will be outside the JV, we can not forget the EMBRAER-X urban mobility project, which is being developed together with UBER and whose first prototype is expected to fly in 2020.

While it may seem to some that EMBRAER will disappear, we still have a lot of projects and a challenging future ahead ...
 
speedbird52
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Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Sat May 25, 2019 1:17 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?

A result of Bombardier shoved into a corner by Boeing
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 1:21 am

Late stage Capitalism appears to be among us, companies collapsing on themselves if not broken up is not far away. Did not read all 15 pages but this is bad news for the competitive environment, especially with Boeing's ineptness leading, therefor it is bad news period.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
WN732
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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 6:31 am

Armodeen wrote:
Can’t wait to fly on a BBC-195 next month :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do they not think about how it sounds before they implement these things?


LOL just wait for headlines like this "BBC-175 lands short of landing strip. Passengers escape through back door!"
 
speedbird52
Posts: 763
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Sat May 25, 2019 6:55 am

PixelPilot wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


You sound like Apple vs android, ford vs chevy, mac vs pc zealot.
Instead of pushing for safer environment you want a monopoly. :boggled: :boggled:
Were you same during the CS series takeover?

This is good news and I bet the new BBC venture will give us a great bird in the future.

I was worse with the CS Series takeover. Which, by the way, was totally because of Boeing. I want a diverse market. YOU want a duopoly. As of today, if you want a commercial airplane, you are stuck with two choices. This isn''t about innovation. This is about kicking competition out of the market. With Embraer and Bombardier out of the picture, Boeing and Airbus are free to offer whatever crap they want to the market. This is something that will be having long term effects far beyond the C-Series and Ejets lifetime.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 763
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 6:58 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Late stage Capitalism appears to be among us, companies collapsing on themselves if not broken up is not far away. Did not read all 15 pages but this is bad news for the competitive environment, especially with Boeing's ineptness leading, therefor it is bad news period.

Remember when Boeing gutted what was left of Dehaviland Canada? My criticism of Boeing doesn't come from a fanatic devotion to Airbus. I PREFER Boeing airplanes to Airbus when it comes to the aviation enthusiast perspective. I am angry at Boeing as a CITIZEN. Boeing have taken not one, but TWO competitors out of the landscape within a year. I won't be surprised if soon they are trying to get Airbus out of the US market if the next administration is anything like the current one.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 7:25 am

Any news on a name change for the E jets?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8229
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Sat May 25, 2019 11:35 am

speedbird52 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
The fact that this is legal shows what a "free" economy really is. Boeing is probably the most predatory company in the Business. Frankly at this point no matter how much I love their heritage or aircraft I want them to fail as a corporation.


Ok and Airbuses take over of the CS program was what exactly?

A result of Bombardier shoved into a corner by Boeing


No, Bombardier was already looking for help prior to that. They approached both Airbus and Boeing about helping out with the CS. Airbus even said they offered the CS “for a song”.

https://business.financialpost.com/tran ... for-a-song
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3194
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Boeing has held takeover talks with Embraer: WSJ

Sat May 25, 2019 12:11 pm

william wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
Looks like tacit admission that they got it extremely wrong in not taking on the CSeries.


What many forget Boeing passed on the CS deal that was offered to Airbus. The Embraer product as it stands sells pretty good on its on and doesn't need "marketing help" (because the world airlines are clueless that BBD has this CS product). I do agree this is a defensive move, to allow Boieng to compete on in the lower segments. What Embraer gets out of this I do no know.


The world airlines all know the CS series exist. One of the less though out comments I've seen on Airliners forums. People running airlines and buying the planes all know what is out there in their markets.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9425
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 1:05 pm

For those complaining about Boeing taking over the company, do you seriously think Airbus, with the C Series/A220 now, was just going to play nice with Embraer and the E2 (which, I remind you, is essentially Embraer’s only remaining commercial product other than the E175)?

Embraer gets survival out of this. There is no way they could match the A220 now that it has Airbus’s sales team and leverage behind it. So the options are Boeing takes over, and hopefully jobs remain in Brazil and Brazil can get some action on future Boeing projects...or wait for Airbus to crush Embraer by stealing all their major sales leaving them with scraps.

Airbus is just as predatory/defensive over their market as Boeing is.
 
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STT757
Posts: 13861
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 1:18 pm

Hopefully Boeing will bring sales, I’m hoping for a UA order. If they order 88 190s/195s for
Mainline they can add an additional 70 175s for Express.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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alberchico
Posts: 3184
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 1:53 pm

So if Embraer wanted to launch a new commercial program, like a turboprop that's long been rumored, they would need Boeing's approval right ?
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
LegoAir
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:57 pm

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 2:47 pm

Good news for Embraer and Boeing. Boeing sales office will boost E2 sales meanwhile Embraer engineering team will help to solve all Boeing technical issues. The E2 development has proven that today Embraer has a superb product development team, and this expertise will be very useful for Boeing next commercial aircraft. Failures on the project management, like it happened with the 787 (lots of delays and billions over budget) will not be supported anymore.
 
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Polot
Posts: 9425
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Sat May 25, 2019 2:52 pm

alberchico wrote:
So if Embraer wanted to launch a new commercial program, like a turboprop that's long been rumored, they would need Boeing's approval righti ?

The actual company Embraer is exiting the commercial market to focus on military and executive aviation, this new joint venture is taking over the commercial products. Obviously Boeing will be taking over all decisions on future Boeing Brasil products and I doubt Embraer is going to suddenly re-enter commercial with a new independent product when they just sold off their old ones.

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