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Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:15 pm
by lightsaber
Polot wrote:
alberchico wrote:
So if Embraer wanted to launch a new commercial program, like a turboprop that's long been rumored, they would need Boeing's approval righti ?

The actual company Embraer is exiting the commercial market to focus on military and executive aviation, this new joint venture is taking over the commercial products. Obviously Boeing will be taking over all decisions on future Boeing Brasil products and I doubt Embraer is going to suddenly re-enter commercial with a new independent product when they just sold off their old ones.

Embraer retained the right for any size turboprop. They will focus on military and commercial, but can develop new products as the market develops.

Lightsaber

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:09 am
by EMBSPBR
lightsaber wrote:
Polot wrote:
alberchico wrote:
So if Embraer wanted to launch a new commercial program, like a turboprop that's long been rumored, they would need Boeing's approval righti ?

The actual company Embraer is exiting the commercial market to focus on military and executive aviation, this new joint venture is taking over the commercial products. Obviously Boeing will be taking over all decisions on future Boeing Brasil products and I doubt Embraer is going to suddenly re-enter commercial with a new independent product when they just sold off their old ones.

Embraer retained the right for any size turboprop. They will focus on military and commercial, but can develop new products as the market develops.

Lightsaber


Just to remind that the 20% share of the old Embraer in the JV can be applied by the company in any project.
For jets the agreement is that Embraer that stays can develop new products up to 50 seats.
For turboprops there is no limit in size or number of seats.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 2:57 am
by PlanesNTrains
LegoAir wrote:
Good news for Embraer and Boeing. Boeing sales office will boost E2 sales meanwhile Embraer engineering team will help to solve all Boeing technical issues. The E2 development has proven that today Embraer has a superb product development team, and this expertise will be very useful for Boeing next commercial aircraft. Failures on the project management, like it happened with the 787 (lots of delays and billions over budget) will not be supported anymore.


1. It remains to be seen if Boeing will have a measurable impact on E2 sales.

2. How is Embraer going to solve “all Boeing technical issues”?

3. You cannot predict the future based on Embraer’s past. This is a new ballgame.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:58 pm
by EMBSPBR
LegoAir wrote:
Good news for Embraer and Boeing. Boeing sales office will boost E2 sales meanwhile Embraer engineering team will help to solve all Boeing technical issues. The E2 development has proven that today Embraer has a superb product development team, and this expertise will be very useful for Boeing next commercial aircraft. Failures on the project management, like it happened with the 787 (lots of delays and billions over budget) will not be supported anymore.


A boost in E2 sales is a matter of time. With integration, we will have access to a chain of suppliers with lower costs and financing to customers at better rates and conditions.

As for the new products, Boeing has come to Embraer for a young and dynamic engineering and design team, outside the "heavy and old" structure of Seattle.

The president and CEO of the JV will be the current Embraer's Commercial Division president and CEO, Mr. John Slattery, who will report to Chicago.

Thus, as previously disclosed in the organization chart of the new company, Mr. Mauro Kern Jr., who has been in Embraer for more than 30 years and 10 years as vice president of engineering, will continue in the same position in the JV.

Under its tutelage, Embraer delivered in the last 10 years 15 new planes, both commercial and executive.

Faced with these choices in key positions, the consulting firm Bain & Company, experts in the aeronautical sector, states that "this way the companies of JV demonstrate a message of continuity in the commercial aviation business developed by Embraer, without abrupt rupture of the gear in its operations.
Definitely, the JV will not be a Boeing-only satellite to produce sub-parts. It will deliver a finished product ..."

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:16 pm
by EMBSPBR
PlanesNTrains wrote:
How is Embraer going to solve “all Boeing technical issues”?


We will not solve Boeing's problems.
We will show them what our work is like ...

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:59 pm
by LegoAir
EMBSPBR wrote:
LegoAir wrote:
Good news for Embraer and Boeing. Boeing sales office will boost E2 sales meanwhile Embraer engineering team will help to solve all Boeing technical issues. The E2 development has proven that today Embraer has a superb product development team, and this expertise will be very useful for Boeing next commercial aircraft. Failures on the project management, like it happened with the 787 (lots of delays and billions over budget) will not be supported anymore.


A boost in E2 sales is a matter of time. With integration, we will have access to a chain of suppliers with lower costs and financing to customers at better rates and conditions.

As for the new products, Boeing has come to Embraer for a young and dynamic engineering and design team, outside the "heavy and old" structure of Seattle.

The president and CEO of the JV will be the current Embraer's Commercial Division president and CEO, Mr. John Slattery, who will report to Chicago.

Thus, as previously disclosed in the organization chart of the new company, Mr. Mauro Kern Jr., who has been in Embraer for more than 30 years and 10 years as vice president of engineering, will continue in the same position in the JV.

Under its tutelage, Embraer delivered in the last 10 years 15 new planes, both commercial and executive.

Faced with these choices in key positions, the consulting firm Bain & Company, experts in the aeronautical sector, states that "this way the companies of JV demonstrate a message of continuity in the commercial aviation business developed by Embraer, without abrupt rupture of the gear in its operations.
Definitely, the JV will not be a Boeing-only satellite to produce sub-parts. It will deliver a finished product ..."


Why JV? Boeings junior varsity team???

It makes sense to keep Mr Mauro Kern Jr as engineering vice president in the new company. Is he the chief engineer? If not, I guess that Embraer chief engineer and his team will also join Boeing Brazil Commercial.

During the last years Mr John Slattery and his team failed in his mission: the E2 backlog is ridiculous and in the last 12 months less than 10 E2 were delivered. What will be his role in the "JV"? Maybe a marionette controlled by someone in Chicago ...

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:47 pm
by EMBSPBR
LegoAir wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
LegoAir wrote:
Good news for Embraer and Boeing. Boeing sales office will boost E2 sales meanwhile Embraer engineering team will help to solve all Boeing technical issues. The E2 development has proven that today Embraer has a superb product development team, and this expertise will be very useful for Boeing next commercial aircraft. Failures on the project management, like it happened with the 787 (lots of delays and billions over budget) will not be supported anymore.


A boost in E2 sales is a matter of time. With integration, we will have access to a chain of suppliers with lower costs and financing to customers at better rates and conditions.

As for the new products, Boeing has come to Embraer for a young and dynamic engineering and design team, outside the "heavy and old" structure of Seattle.

The president and CEO of the JV will be the current Embraer's Commercial Division president and CEO, Mr. John Slattery, who will report to Chicago.

Thus, as previously disclosed in the organization chart of the new company, Mr. Mauro Kern Jr., who has been in Embraer for more than 30 years and 10 years as vice president of engineering, will continue in the same position in the JV.

Under its tutelage, Embraer delivered in the last 10 years 15 new planes, both commercial and executive.

Faced with these choices in key positions, the consulting firm Bain & Company, experts in the aeronautical sector, states that "this way the companies of JV demonstrate a message of continuity in the commercial aviation business developed by Embraer, without abrupt rupture of the gear in its operations.
Definitely, the JV will not be a Boeing-only satellite to produce sub-parts. It will deliver a finished product ..."


Why JV? Boeings junior varsity team???

It makes sense to keep Mr Mauro Kern Jr as engineering vice president in the new company. Is he the chief engineer? If not, I guess that Embraer chief engineer and his team will also join Boeing Brazil Commercial.

During the last years Mr John Slattery and his team failed in his mission: the E2 backlog is ridiculous and in the last 12 months less than 10 E2 were delivered. What will be his role in the "JV"? Maybe a marionette controlled by someone in Chicago ...


Boeing does not need to invest $ 5.4 billion to have a marionette of its own to control from Chicago.

His vision is from outsiders and has not yet figured out what Boeing came to get here.

And our "junior varsity team" is the best we have in engineering within the company ...

Re: Boeing Brasil – Commercial is the new name of Embraer

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:19 am
by grbauc
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
The BCS program was circling the drain in spite of whatever Boeing was doing. Sure, Boeing tried to put their boot on BBD's neck, but that backfired didn't it?...

I totally agree that BBD did not have the massive financial capacity required to undertake such a project. It also spent (wasted) too much capital on a useless program (Lear 85), while also simultaneously developing a totally new Global (7500). Definitely bad risk management here. (The only positive was keeping busy its engineers in a somewhat efficient sequence).

But BBD could not have predicted the CSeries would face such tremendous predatory behavior from the duopoly. FWIW, Embraer did face any of that with its 190/195E2s - maybe Embraer was already sleeping with Boeing?.

==> But anyways you look at it, from the moment the duopoly considered the CSeries as a treat, the CSeries was doomed. Again, any OEM that will attempt to crack this duopoly will require MASSIVE government aids.



Ah business is ruthless in the real world and if they didn’t think they had a possible chance of waking the slumbering bear then shame on them.
I don’t believe that’s the case. Only in a fantasy world do good guys wear white and bad guys wear black. The real world is full of shades of grey.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:15 pm
by Gulfstream500
Sooo.... Boeing takes over the Embraer commercial division, and the business jet division stays separate.

If Boeing rebrands it, will it be called the B-jets? The B170-195?

Looks like (yet another) opportunity for airlines to acquire smaller airplanes and still be “all Boeing”

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:50 pm
by EMBSPBR
Gulfstream500 wrote:
If Boeing rebrands it, will it be called the B-jets? The B170-195?


They will be "E-Jets by Boeing Brasil Commercial" ...

Boeing already said the "E-Jets" brand is strong in the market and don´t see why change it.
Time will tell ...

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 3:52 pm
by SEU
Have to admit, I dont like it.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:02 pm
by ODwyerPW
EMBSPBR wrote:
Just to remind that the 20% share of the old Embraer in the JV can be applied by the company in any project.
For jets the agreement is that Embraer that stays can develop new products up to 50 seats.
For turboprops there is no limit in size or number of seats.


So Boeing didn't get any Phenom, Praetor, Legacy, EMB-120, ERJ135-ERJ-145 stuff. The original Embraer keeps all of that and the potential to re-launch. Really just 7 planes... 4 E Jets = Embraer 170 - Embraer 195 and 3 E2 Jets = Embraer E2 175 - E2 195. I guess for the Lineage, BBC will just produce white tails and then sell/deliver them to Embraer Business Jets for completion and delivery to customer?

How much did Embraer receive in cash to sell part of itself off to this Joint Venture?

For instance, I remember when Volvo sold the automotive portion... and became just a large truck company, it took the money and invested in it's entire line up of Semis and Buses and became a market leader.

How much money did Embraer receive and what will it do with it?

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 4:14 pm
by EMBSPBR
ODwyerPW wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
How much money did Embraer receive and what will it do with it?


Total US$ 5.4 bi:
20% for Embraer in JV = US$ 700 mi
Cash to Embraer: US$ 4.7 bi

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:36 pm
by PlanesNTrains
Edit

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:39 pm
by ODwyerPW
EMBSPBR wrote:
Cash to Embraer: US$ 4.7 bi


that's a good amount of money to launch any new jet/prop program below 50 seats.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:39 pm
by N328KF
ODwyerPW wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Cash to Embraer: US$ 4.7 bi


that's a good amount of money to launch any new jet/prop program below 50 seats.


Or (at least in part), an extraordinary dividend to shareholders.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:03 pm
by EMBSPBR
Gulfstream500 wrote:
If Boeing rebrands it, will it be called the B-jets? The B170-195?


Source: https://aviationweek.com/commercial-avi ... chief-says

"Re-Brand E-Jets? Not So Fast, Embraer Commercial Chief Says"

Excerpts:

"Last week’s announcement that the Embraer name would disappear from the commercial business also has raised the question of whether a re-naming of the company’s E-Jets could follow."

"But Slattery, responding to a question from Aviation Daily, says it is not that simple. He notes that the E-Jets have been in operation much longer than the A220, with more than 1,500 aircraft flown by 75 customers in 50 countries. “The E-Jet has brand equity for the current operators,” he says."

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:05 pm
by EMBSPBR
ODwyerPW wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Cash to Embraer: US$ 4.7 bi


that's a good amount of money to launch any new jet/prop program below 50 seats.


Source: https://aviationweek.com/commercial-avi ... chief-says

Excerpts:

"John Slattery also downplayed speculation that Embraer is close to launching development of a so-called E3 turboprop, an idea the company has been closely studying for several years and which he appears to see much merit in. “We are nowhere near to launching a new aircraft program,” he stresses.

It remains to be seen whether Boeing would agree to sign-on to enter a turboprop market where demand has been weak in recent years. Slattery says Embraer is continuing to study the market and concepts for the aircraft, “particularly around the powerplant technology [where] hybrid becomes increasingly executable.”

“It’s something I continue to keep on my radar,” he says. “We’re continuing to do the same amount of work we’ve done for the last couple of years.”

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:51 pm
by ODwyerPW
EMBSPBR wrote:
"John Slattery also downplayed speculation that Embraer is close to launching development of a so-called E3 turboprop, an idea the company has been closely studying for several years and which he appears to see much merit in. “We are nowhere near to launching a new aircraft program,” he stresses.


meh, just means they aren't tipping their hat to ATR... :D

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:12 am
by PlanesNTrains
EMBSPBR wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
If Boeing rebrands it, will it be called the B-jets? The B170-195?


They will be "E-Jets by Boeing Brasil Commercial" ...

Boeing already said the "E-Jets" brand is strong in the market and don´t see why change it.
Time will tell ...


http://m.atwonline.com/aircraft-engines ... d2c5fb0107



“A decision on whether to rename Embraer’s E-Jets is still up in the air following the announcement that the company’s commercial aircraft business will be rebranded as Boeing Brazil-Commercial. Embraer Commercial Aviation president and CEO John Slattery says the decision to rename his unit after Boeing closes on a $4.2-billion deal to acquire an 80% stake was made after careful deliberation and was not a top-down mandate from the US air framer.”

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:23 pm
by EMBSPBR
PlanesNTrains wrote:
http://m.atwonline.com/aircraft-engines ... d2c5fb0107

“A decision on whether to rename Embraer’s E-Jets is still up in the air following the announcement that the company’s commercial aircraft business will be rebranded as Boeing Brazil-Commercial. Embraer Commercial Aviation president and CEO John Slattery says the decision to rename his unit after Boeing closes on a $4.2-billion deal to acquire an 80% stake was made after careful deliberation and was not a top-down mandate from the US air framer.”


From your same source:

"But Slattery, responding to a question from Aviation Daily, says it is not that simple. He notes that the E-Jets have been in operation much longer than the A220, with more than 1,500 aircraft flown by 75 customers in 50 countries. “The E-Jet has brand equity for the current operators,” he says."

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:33 pm
by PlanesNTrains
EMBSPBR wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
http://m.atwonline.com/aircraft-engines ... d2c5fb0107

“A decision on whether to rename Embraer’s E-Jets is still up in the air following the announcement that the company’s commercial aircraft business will be rebranded as Boeing Brazil-Commercial. Embraer Commercial Aviation president and CEO John Slattery says the decision to rename his unit after Boeing closes on a $4.2-billion deal to acquire an 80% stake was made after careful deliberation and was not a top-down mandate from the US air framer.”


From your same source:

"But Slattery, responding to a question from Aviation Daily, says it is not that simple. He notes that the E-Jets have been in operation much longer than the A220, with more than 1,500 aircraft flown by 75 customers in 50 countries. “The E-Jet has brand equity for the current operators,” he says."


You suggested that they aren’t changing the branding of the Ejets. I just shared a quote that it’s undecided. What’s your point? Honestly, it’s like dealing with a PR machine rather than a fellow forum member at times.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:20 pm
by nehalem
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Sooo.... Boeing takes over the Embraer commercial division, and the business jet division stays separate.

If Boeing rebrands it, will it be called the B-jets? The B170-195?

Looks like (yet another) opportunity for airlines to acquire smaller airplanes and still be “all Boeing”


Boeing 737Mini

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:35 pm
by EMBSPBR
PlanesNTrains wrote:
You suggested that they aren’t changing the branding of the Ejets. I just shared a quote that it’s undecided. What’s your point? Honestly, it’s like dealing with a PR machine rather than a fellow forum member at times.


No, you just ignored my post number 768 where it is written that although there is no decision on keeping the current name of the E-Jets but that, in the words of CEO John Slattery "the E-Jets have been in operation much more than the A220, with more than 1,500 aircraft flown by 75 customers in 50 countries.The E-Jet has brand equity for the current operators ... "

So, what's your point? Planes and trains? Honestly, it's like dealing with a PR machine rather than a fellow forum member at times.

Re: Updated: Embraer and Boeing JV to be named Boeing Brasil Commercial

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:26 pm
by PlanesNTrains
EMBSPBR wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
You suggested that they aren’t changing the branding of the Ejets. I just shared a quote that it’s undecided. What’s your point? Honestly, it’s like dealing with a PR machine rather than a fellow forum member at times.


No, you just ignored my post number 768 where it is written that although there is no decision on keeping the current name of the E-Jets but that, in the words of CEO John Slattery "the E-Jets have been in operation much more than the A220, with more than 1,500 aircraft flown by 75 customers in 50 countries.The E-Jet has brand equity for the current operators ... "

So, what's your point? Planes and trains? Honestly, it's like dealing with a PR machine rather than a fellow forum member at times.


It was called "adding another reference point". In other words, more context. And your PR comment is silly as I have no skin in the game, unlike you. I'm not trying to spin a narrative.