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BN727227Ultra
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Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:10 pm

Before KATL has ten E/W runways and I-285 gets pushed so far south that it loops around Macon, will the powers that be decide to bite the bullet? Some musings:

1. I think KMGE is a perfect location for a domestic overflow airport, but it's also busy with DoD traffic and I don't think the politicians want that money to go away even though it'd be replaced by...other money...

2. Otherwise, I don't think there's a flat enough area in N GA to create a meaningful airport. This is a problem, because...

3. KATL is south, while the moneyed populace is north. So...

4. Transient traffic would be happy no matter where the airport is, while O/D would be more happy not having to face MARTA and I-75/85.

5. The 800lb. widget doesn't want to move some percentage of their traffic away from Hartsfield, even though I think in fifty years they'll wonder why they didn't.

6. If Atlanta wants to be Chicago/Dallas/Houston/NYC/LA/Miami, they need a civil aviation footprint like them. The only similar metro with one airport is the GTA (Toronto) and they have the same fifty-year-out space issues.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:17 pm

I think Atlanta has plenty of capacity to shift towards O&D to serve its local needs. For example, slowly, Delta may begin to shift lower yield connecting traffic to other hubs to open more seats for O&D traffic.

You may see Delta add nonstop service in markets that overfly Atlanta to free up capacity that the Atlanta local market needs.
I don't think there's an overwhelming need for a relief airport now or in the long term.
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Delta has squashed every prior attempt at commercial air service at other area airports, and I don't think that will change anytime in the foreseeable future.

And I think DL is happy to push as much traffic through ATL as possible. If anything, the shift away from 50-seaters frees up additional airport capacity for them.
 
FSDan
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:48 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
The only similar metro with one airport is the GTA (Toronto) and they have the same fifty-year-out space issues.


Toronto has two, actually. YTZ may not be massive, but it handles quite a few flights on small aircraft.

I would say Philadelphia doesn't have a proper second airport, although it's relatively close to EWR, and ACY maybe plays the reliever role a little bit too.
Last edited by FSDan on Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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drdisque
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:51 pm

The two top candidates of airports that are essentially "shovel ready" to become small stations for narrowbody aircraft are LZU and RYY.

LZU has no direct residential neighbors that would be in the flight path, but it's very hemmed in by existing industrial development and there isn't much space to build much of a terminal.

RYY has a large neighborhood off the East end of the runway, so it's basically a non-starter.

PDK is already congested by GA traffic and is out of space with few options for expansion where you don't run right into a neighborhood.

FTY has some room development, you could get away with just building a terminal on the North side of the airport - but it's also not that far from ATL so it offers few advantages as a secondary commercial airport. Its runways are also completely maxed out without rerouting Fulton Industrial blvd.
 
BravoEchoNov
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:04 pm

I don't have much to add, but I want to praise BN727227Ultra for saying "tha ATL".

Delta doesn't want another commercial airport so another commercial airport will not be made. Delta is king in tha ATL. Especially after the city's major mess up with the power outage.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:25 pm

BravoEchoNov wrote:
I don't have much to add, but I want to praise BN727227Ultra for saying "tha ATL".


:-) Momma's side is from East Point!

BravoEchoNov wrote:
Delta doesn't want another commercial airport so another commercial airport will not be made. Delta is king in tha ATL. Especially after the city's major mess up with the power outage.


Good point. DL owns a refinery, maybe next they'll buy a power plant?!
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:28 pm

I would have said MEM served that purpose but IMO, DL is using RDU and MCO for relief.. as well as their FL P2P.. that’s probably taken some relief off.. even though they are mainly O&D stations, they are connecting stations too and clearing a few seats out of ATL that would allow more international growth.. which is probably the better yield..
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ATLFlyer323
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:38 pm

A super long time ago I remember hearing some rumblings that Cherokee County Airport was trying to look at the cost/benefit of becoming a smaller secondary airport for ATL. Being north of the city and off I575 made is accessible to Cherokee and Cobb counties, and expanding GA 20 would help bring in N Fulton and Forsyth Counties. Nothing ever materialized obviously, but it could be an alternative. It doesn't have tons of space for growth though because it is surrounded by hills from what I remember, but I could maybe handle some traffic?

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N62NA
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:46 pm

Atlanta doesn't need a relief airport. The number of flights going thru ATL are purely a function of DL using it as their super hub. Nothing to do with the demand from the population in the Atlanta area.
 
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bluestreak
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:54 pm

I always thought AHN would be the perfect overflow airport. It's location is outside of Atlanta, but a reasonable distance from those on the north side of the city looking to avoid ATL congestion.

I used this airport extensively during the 1990's, and 2000's. I loved the feel of the airport, not busy, not crowded, and it had that special feel to me. It reminded me of the television show "Wings", which aired in the 1990's. The show was set at the fictional "Tom Nevers Field", a small two airline airport in Nantucket.

CCAir flew on behalf of Piedmont (later USAir), with Beech C99's, and eventually Jetstreams, and even a Shorts 360 at peak times. Eventually, Air Midwest took over the flying duties with a Beech 1900. Once service was halted to CLT, Georgia Skies flew to ATL with a Caravan, which happened to be my last flight out of AHN. Seaport did fly to BNA for a period, but all commercial services out of AHN have been discontinued. AHN is no longer covered under EAS.

One drawback was that the fares were usually higher out of AHN, but when considering the time spent at ATL in check in, and security lines, plus the commute (from my house), it was worth it. But apparently not enough people felt the same as I did. Many times the planes flew with 5, or less passengers. On my last trip from AHN, I was the only passenger. But I could arrive at the airport, park the car, check in, go through security, and usually be at the gate within 15 minutes. Try that in ATL!

According to a friend of mine who flies charters in and out of AHN, the city is in negotiations with an airline for future service. I'm not going to speculate who the carrier might be, but I am hoping for Allegiant. Delta regularly flies a 717 out of AHN for the University of Georgia sports charters. I have seen an Elite Airways CRJ-700 at the airport recently, and in the past I have seen DC-9's, and 737-200's performing charter work. So the airport is capable of handing regional aircraft, I just hope commercial service does return at some point.

I like the variety of carriers, and cheap fares out of ATL, but the convenience of AHN is what I miss!
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:55 pm

N62NA wrote:
Atlanta doesn't need a relief airport. The number of flights going thru ATL are purely a function of DL using it as their super hub. Nothing to do with the demand from the population in the Atlanta area.

There is the possibility of a second LGW-style reliever airport that would not necessarily impact on Delta.

Design and build it for the lowcosts, principally. No fancy lounges with Medallion this or Platinum that. Just basic cowsheds with simple footfall management to get passengers to their flights. Just as the likes of Easyjet and Norwegian dominate LGW, lowcosts could be attracted away from ATL if the offer is right and fees are kept to the absolute minimum.
 
afcjets
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:07 pm

I heard Delta developed CVG as a secondary hub for ATL in the early 1980s, back when EA and DL had almost the same number of flights from ATL.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:09 pm

Historically, there have been several proposals to introduce commercial service to existing airports in the area (including Charlie Brown Field and most recently in Paulding County) and/or build completely new facilities, but they all died under the threat of DL and/or the city of Atlanta. Any future attempt to do so will almost certainly result in litigation.
 
klm617
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:16 pm

Delta will not allow that to happen and it has enough friends in high places to squash any attempt to allow for more competition in the ATL that may impact it's yields negatively.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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william
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:56 pm

http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-har ... al-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:47 pm

william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.


Not just CHA but also BHM and GSP, which are about the same distance and have a decent variety of service. This is one of the reasons that ATL doesn’t really need a “true” reliever. While getting from, say, Cartersville to ATL isn’t much fun, the drive to CHA is about the same time-wise as the drive to many of the potential relievers.
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litz
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:13 am

regarding PDK ... if you think the NIMBY'ers are noisy now, toss the possibility of commercial jets into the mix, and they'll go completely off the deep end.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:19 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Before KATL has ten E/W runways and I-285 gets pushed so far south that it loops around Macon, will the powers that be decide to bite the bullet? Some musings:

1. I think KMGE is a perfect location for a domestic overflow airport, but it's also busy with DoD traffic and I don't think the politicians want that money to go away even though it'd be replaced by...other money...

2. Otherwise, I don't think there's a flat enough area in N GA to create a meaningful airport. This is a problem, because...

3. KATL is south, while the moneyed populace is north. So...

4. Transient traffic would be happy no matter where the airport is, while O/D would be more happy not having to face MARTA and I-75/85.

5. The 800lb. widget doesn't want to move some percentage of their traffic away from Hartsfield, even though I think in fifty years they'll wonder why they didn't.

6. If Atlanta wants to be Chicago/Dallas/Houston/NYC/LA/Miami, they need a civil aviation footprint like them. The only similar metro with one airport is the GTA (Toronto) and they have the same fifty-year-out space issues.


First of all plenty of wealth is also in South metro and it want be no others runways after the sixth one. It not about moving traffic away from Hartsfield, which is nonsense because of Delta’s megahub. Furthermore, Atlanta have no desire to be any other city, but Atlanta.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:52 am

william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.

It was Gwinnett Co airport not Fulton Co. They allegedly secretly funded the runway expansion project and then got shot down for commercial air service by 'NIMBYS' aka DL.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:05 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:

6. If Atlanta wants to be Chicago/Dallas/Houston/NYC/LA/Miami, they need a civil aviation footprint like them. The only similar metro with one airport is the GTA (Toronto) and they have the same fifty-year-out space issues.


This is for sure NOT the way to go. A single airport creates connections that generate more traffic that generates more service: a virtuous cycle. Break local traffic into several small airports and the connections dwindle. If Atlanta wants to continue to use its generous air service to attract business, it should make sure it squashes any attempt to split its local traffic into different airports.
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LAXLHR
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:43 am

Channex757 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
Atlanta doesn't need a relief airport. The number of flights going thru ATL are purely a function of DL using it as their super hub. Nothing to do with the demand from the population in the Atlanta area.

There is the possibility of a second LGW-style reliever airport that would not necessarily impact on Delta.

Design and build it for the lowcosts, principally. No fancy lounges with Medallion this or Platinum that. Just basic cowsheds with simple footfall management to get passengers to their flights. Just as the likes of Easyjet and Norwegian dominate LGW, lowcosts could be attracted away from ATL if the offer is right and fees are kept to the absolute minimum.


I'm sorry but Atlanta is hardly London or close to other world mega-cities. ATL is the #1 airport in the world because it has served well as a hub, and DL blew it up to what it is. Has nothing to do with Atlanta itself, they just benefit from this.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
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N62NA
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:56 am

LAXLHR wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
Atlanta doesn't need a relief airport. The number of flights going thru ATL are purely a function of DL using it as their super hub. Nothing to do with the demand from the population in the Atlanta area.

There is the possibility of a second LGW-style reliever airport that would not necessarily impact on Delta.

Design and build it for the lowcosts, principally. No fancy lounges with Medallion this or Platinum that. Just basic cowsheds with simple footfall management to get passengers to their flights. Just as the likes of Easyjet and Norwegian dominate LGW, lowcosts could be attracted away from ATL if the offer is right and fees are kept to the absolute minimum.


I'm sorry but Atlanta is hardly London or close to other world mega-cities. ATL is the #1 airport in the world because it has served well as a hub, and DL blew it up to what it is. Has nothing to do with Atlanta itself, they just benefit from this.


Which goes back to what I wrote.
 
airzona11
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:46 am

ATL is significant bc of ATL, not because of Atlanta. This isn't a knock on the city, the city is a boom town. Was the rail hub, prior to being air hub. But it is served just fine by the one airport. The regional geography makes ATL great, don't think a secondary airport happens anytime soon.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:30 am

william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.


The problem with saying CHA is a reliever for ATL is that half the passengers departing CHA take a 20 minute DL flight down to ATL for connections. There's like 10 departures a day, several on mainline, which is far more than any other destination out of CHA. So in the end ATL doesnt get "relieved" at all, some originating pax just become transit pax instead.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:40 am

Dalmd88 wrote:
william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.

It was Gwinnett Co airport not Fulton Co. They allegedly secretly funded the runway expansion project and then got shot down for commercial air service by 'NIMBYS' aka DL.


I lived in the ATL in the mid- and late 1980s and definitely remember WN wanting to start service at Charlie Brown Field. They may have later also proposed Gwinnett as well.
 
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william
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:02 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.

It was Gwinnett Co airport not Fulton Co. They allegedly secretly funded the runway expansion project and then got shot down for commercial air service by 'NIMBYS' aka DL.


I lived in the ATL in the mid- and late 1980s and definitely remember WN wanting to start service at Charlie Brown Field. They may have later also proposed Gwinnett as well.


Are the above airports in Atlanta proper? How far from Atlanta does an airport has to be to not be under its jurisdiction? I am wandering if there is a nearby airport that could accommodate an airline like Allegiant that only needs a parking lot and converted hangar.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:53 am

Channex757 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
Atlanta doesn't need a relief airport. The number of flights going thru ATL are purely a function of DL using it as their super hub. Nothing to do with the demand from the population in the Atlanta area.

Design and build it for the lowcosts, principally. No fancy lounges with Medallion this or Platinum that. Just basic cowsheds with simple footfall management to get passengers to their flights.


Sounds like ATL :duck:
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:37 pm

short answer is no.

Like it or not, ATL is going to get a lot bigger. ATL's 2016 master plan includes a new 6th runway and a brand new 'G' concourse. Also, concourse D and T will become expanded and extended. If need be, and this is way further down the line, they're plans to build a 'H' and 'I' concourse. Also mentioned is modernizing the existing terminals but without getting to far off topic, ATL is very unique in that it must be the only airport within arms reach of a major metropolis with only one airport. And, the greater Atlanta area keeps growing with more and more businesses moving to the area. I can see why JetBlue wants a piece of the action.
 
airfrnt
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:15 pm

No. The beauty of the midfield concourse design that Atlanta (and Denver) operate is that it is extremely space efficient for expansion of the airport. As a connecting hub, this allows for more and more traffic to be concentrated at a single airport, which in turn also allows more flights that would otherwise be marginal to be served out of the airport. It's a virtual cycle * at least until a transformer gets lit on fire *

What will eventually drive a second airport is if DL becomes more aggressive at blocking space to other carriers at the airport.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:17 pm

jumbojet wrote:
short answer is no.

Like it or not, ATL is going to get a lot bigger. ATL's 2016 master plan includes a new 6th runway and a brand new 'G' concourse. Also, concourse D and T will become expanded and extended. If need be, and this is way further down the line, they're plans to build a 'H' and 'I' concourse. Also mentioned is modernizing the existing terminals but without getting to far off topic, ATL is very unique in that it must be the only airport within arms reach of a major metropolis with only one airport. And, the greater Atlanta area keeps growing with more and more businesses moving to the area. I can see why JetBlue wants a piece of the action.


Outside of bitching about the distance between the airport and Denver proper (honestly, it's not that much further then ATL, and I will be transiting both airports today), Denver also falls into this category. Denver is also pretty much ATL 2.0, with (mostly) fixes to the ATL design - more room between concourses to allow for more efficient taxi operations, and more wide-bodies, more space for expansion, more security gate space, and a much more efficient airfield design.
 
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:39 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.


The problem with saying CHA is a reliever for ATL is that half the passengers departing CHA take a 20 minute DL flight down to ATL for connections. There's like 10 departures a day, several on mainline, which is far more than any other destination out of CHA. So in the end ATL doesnt get "relieved" at all, some originating pax just become transit pax instead.

But that capacity could easily be switched to different connection points if ATL ever requires a relief.
 
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litz
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:34 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
I'm sorry but Atlanta is hardly London or close to other world mega-cities. ATL is the #1 airport in the world because it has served well as a hub, and DL blew it up to what it is. Has nothing to do with Atlanta itself, they just benefit from this.


On the world stage, yes ... ATL metro area is something like 78th in the world.

In North America, however, ATL metro area is the 9th largest.

All eight larger metro areas (and a few of the smaller ones) have multiple nearby airports.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:39 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Before KATL has ten E/W runways and I-285 gets pushed so far south that it loops around Macon, will the powers that be decide to bite the bullet? Some musings:

1. I think KMGE is a perfect location for a domestic overflow airport, but it's also busy with DoD traffic and I don't think the politicians want that money to go away even though it'd be replaced by...other money...

2. Otherwise, I don't think there's a flat enough area in N GA to create a meaningful airport. This is a problem, because...

3. KATL is south, while the moneyed populace is north. So...

4. Transient traffic would be happy no matter where the airport is, while O/D would be more happy not having to face MARTA and I-75/85.

5. The 800lb. widget doesn't want to move some percentage of their traffic away from Hartsfield, even though I think in fifty years they'll wonder why they didn't.

6. If Atlanta wants to be Chicago/Dallas/Houston/NYC/LA/Miami, they need a civil aviation footprint like them. The only similar metro with one airport is the GTA (Toronto) and they have the same fifty-year-out space issues.


uh, no we don't. Unless we are planning to just go full stupid with tax money (Atlanta's leadership has been good at this lately) there is absolutely zero need for a second airport. Most of the cities you listed built second airports because the original airports got locked in by the city and NIMBYs. ATL on the other hand has room for at least two more runways (easily and could probably do a 8th on the south side if needed) plus room for more concourses. Places like LGA, JFK, SFO, LAX, DAL, etc don't have room for growth, or have other forces stopping them.


Atlanta needs to put tax money into important infrastructure like roads. Wasting money on stupid stuff like a second airport, new sports stadiums that don't need to be built or countless other dumbass ideas Atlanta leadership has done and will do nothing for the city. Atlanta needs to be Atlanta. Not LA. Not NYC. Not London. Not Hong Kong....just Atlanta.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:57 am

deltal1011man wrote:
Atlanta needs to put tax money into important infrastructure like roads. Wasting money on stupid stuff like a second airport, new sports stadiums that don't need to be built or countless other dumbass ideas Atlanta leadership has done and will do nothing for the city. Atlanta needs to be Atlanta. Not LA. Not NYC. Not London. Not Hong Kong....just Atlanta.


I'm in full agreement WRT sports stadiums. And roads. Was SunTrust built with any Atlanta money?
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:05 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
Atlanta needs to put tax money into important infrastructure like roads. Wasting money on stupid stuff like a second airport, new sports stadiums that don't need to be built or countless other dumbass ideas Atlanta leadership has done and will do nothing for the city. Atlanta needs to be Atlanta. Not LA. Not NYC. Not London. Not Hong Kong....just Atlanta.


I'm in full agreement WRT sports stadiums. And roads. Was SunTrust built with any Atlanta money?


City of Atlanta, no. Cobb County, yes.
 
vadodara
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:10 am

Only issue with Hartsfield is DL lording over public property; otherwise they can easily scale up the op’s.

DL squatting over the only A380 capable gate to spite Qatar was a little distasteful.
 
LTCM
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:12 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
Atlanta needs to put tax money into important infrastructure like roads. Wasting money on stupid stuff like a second airport, new sports stadiums that don't need to be built or countless other dumbass ideas Atlanta leadership has done and will do nothing for the city. Atlanta needs to be Atlanta. Not LA. Not NYC. Not London. Not Hong Kong....just Atlanta.


I'm in full agreement WRT sports stadiums. And roads. Was SunTrust built with any Atlanta money?


Public money, yes - Cobb county gave them some dollars. The stadium is not in city limits or even in the same county as Atlanta itself.
 
LTCM
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:15 am

vadodara wrote:
DL squatting over the only A380 capable gate to spite Qatar was a little distasteful.


That is a complete mischaracteration of what happen. Delta has no control over that gate and the issue was 100% qatars fault.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:07 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Before KATL has ten E/W runways and I-285 gets pushed so far south that it loops around Macon, will the powers that be decide to bite the bullet? Some musings:

1. I think KMGE is a perfect location for a domestic overflow airport, but it's also busy with DoD traffic and I don't think the politicians want that money to go away even though it'd be replaced by...other money...

2. Otherwise, I don't think there's a flat enough area in N GA to create a meaningful airport. This is a problem, because...

3. KATL is south, while the moneyed populace is north. So...

4. Transient traffic would be happy no matter where the airport is, while O/D would be more happy not having to face MARTA and I-75/85.

5. The 800lb. widget doesn't want to move some percentage of their traffic away from Hartsfield, even though I think in fifty years they'll wonder why they didn't.

6. If Atlanta wants to be Chicago/Dallas/Houston/NYC/LA/Miami, they need a civil aviation footprint like them. The only similar metro with one airport is the GTA (Toronto) and they have the same fifty-year-out space issues.


There are reasons why no large airport has been built in the U.S. since DEN. $$$, politics, and NIMBY's, in whichever order you care to put them. ATL isn't going to get a second airport for at least 30 years, if ever.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:21 am

Like airlines, airports do not like competition. What about Nashville, Tennessee to compete with Atlanta? Is the Nashville Airport growing / expanding.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
aviationbuff08
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:36 am

What ever happened to the South Gate complex with around 20 gates that was supposed to be for AirTran and Other LCC? Maybe even get UA or AA to move their gates to it.
 
aviationbuff08
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:40 am

What ever happened to the South Gate complex with around 20 gates that was supposed to be for AirTran and Other LCC? Maybe even get UA or AA to move their gates to it.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:56 pm

vadodara wrote:

DL squatting over the only A380 capable gate to spite Qatar was a little distasteful.


Incorrect. The only thing distaseful about that incident was Qatar not playing by the rule book and wanting to do things their way. ATL and the aviation industry does not work like that.
 
luckyone
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:11 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
william wrote:
http://news.delta.com/lease-cements-hartsfield-jackson-atlanta-s-only-commercial-airport

Not for at least another 10 years. SWA back in the 80s tried to get into Fulton Airport but was turned down. Chattanooga is the only reliever for the forseeable future.

It was Gwinnett Co airport not Fulton Co. They allegedly secretly funded the runway expansion project and then got shot down for commercial air service by 'NIMBYS' aka DL.

It wasn’t just Delta. I grew up less than five miles from LZU. I remember that well in the early 90’s. My parents and most of the neighbors were adamant that LZU remained a GA airport. The mindset that was particularly resonant at the time was “if we wanted to live next to a big airport we already could.” That part of Gwinnett was very sparsely populated at the time. Nothing was there. The nearest grocery stores were 20-30 minutes away. GA-20 was a two lane road where one of the biggest malls in the country is now placed, and the people living there were either traditional “country folk” or the last vestiges of the Dekalb County White flight that came before Atlanta boomed after the 96 Olympics. Neither group was particularly enamored with the idea of large-scale development.

Now, obviously there are ramifications to planning decisions made back then, and Atlanta has sprawled to the edge of very hilly territory, unsuitable for an airport. That’s not changing any time soon, so bringing this discussion up every six months is pointless. The people in Atlanta largely don’t want it. If they want to be closer to the airport the current trend of moving into the city provides many options. There is literally nowhere to put it in the wealthy northern suburbs that will fight any attempt to put it there should you try. ATL as it is is already centrally located in the metro area as it is. And lastly, the area traffic volumes don’t require a second airport.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:25 pm

Extend MARTA to GSP and CHA, with express service. Problem solved, esp. for N. Ga.
 
jfern022
Posts: 168
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:14 pm

aviationbuff08 wrote:
What ever happened to the South Gate complex with around 20 gates that was supposed to be for AirTran and Other LCC? Maybe even get UA or AA to move their gates to it.


That was planned when you had AA, US, UA, CO, WN, FL, still all operating independently. And before the day when the mainlines upgauged routes. Now there isn't enough need to have an entirely seperate terminal with ramps, road infrastructure, etc.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:16 pm

jumbojet wrote:
short answer is no.

Like it or not, ATL is going to get a lot bigger. ATL's 2016 master plan includes a new 6th runway and a brand new 'G' concourse. Also, concourse D and T will become expanded and extended. If need be, and this is way further down the line, they're plans to build a 'H' and 'I' concourse. Also mentioned is modernizing the existing terminals but without getting to far off topic, ATL is very unique in that it must be the only airport within arms reach of a major metropolis with only one airport. And, the greater Atlanta area keeps growing with more and more businesses moving to the area. I can see why JetBlue wants a piece of the action.

ATL has a major expansion planned. That hurts the business case for other service. The fact ATL is a handful of destinations away from serving all viable destinations will make it a challenge.

But never a reliever airport is a long time.

The outside communities would like closer in service. Politics has a way of working. Not nearby, but some neighboring counties will want revenue...

Personally, I expect San Diego to gain a major expansion (or new airport) first and that is years away...

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
mikeinatlanta
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for ATL?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:18 pm

Live in ATL and a no vote for secondary airport. Current airfield has plenty of growth capacity left and traffic is only an issue during rush hour. Even during rush hour traffic it's better than LAX during off peak hours.

Current plans for improving local traffic drop off and pick up is what it needs and is in work. For all the airports I fly out of, ATL remains one of the best.
Aircraft Maintenance Professional since 1979.
 
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william
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Re: Will there ever be a substantial relief airport for tha ATL?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm

william wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Dalmd88 wrote:
It was Gwinnett Co airport not Fulton Co. They allegedly secretly funded the runway expansion project and then got shot down for commercial air service by 'NIMBYS' aka DL.


I lived in the ATL in the mid- and late 1980s and definitely remember WN wanting to start service at Charlie Brown Field. They may have later also proposed Gwinnett as well.


Are the above airports in Atlanta proper? How far from Atlanta does an airport has to be to not be under its jurisdiction? I am wandering if there is a nearby airport that could accommodate an airline like Allegiant that only needs a parking lot and converted hangar.


Some explain to me how is the city of ATL can stop air service in its suburbs? Is there a "Wright" like amendment contract saying so? What say does the ATL have over the "Ettas" on the north side?

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