T1a
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Re: IAG buys NIKI for 20m EUR

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:27 pm

LH/EW makes ex-AB staff apply at EW (privious experience is taken into account when integrated into the EW GmbH CBA) that is correct. AB wasn't bought as a whole and has no valid AOC, therefore having them apply is at least kind of understandable. LGW staff is kept on 100% because this company is bought as a whole with their AOC and everything else. The same would have applied for Niki.
All views expressed under this username are mine as a private person and don't necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:34 pm

Well atleast airline is not totally dead. Hopefully, continue to provide some important competition.
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Kilopond
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:41 pm

Reportedly (standard.at et al.) Niki is going to be merged into Vueling. It won't be easy to market this brand in the DACH and BeNeLux region because the "-ling" suffix is VERY strong in their languages. Just insert two letters into that name and you get Vuestling which translates from (misspelled) German into Dutch as perverseling.
 
BAorNoWay
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Re: IAG buys NIKI for 20m EUR

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:46 pm

T1a wrote:
Sorry to say, but if all of the above is true, I don't like this deal. Founding a new Austrian based company means the current Niki employees will have to re-apply for their own jobs. They will be offered new contracts, which will most likely be worse than their current CBA, which already isn't very good. Also a good way to get rid of “unwanted“ employees, such as high profile union members. The downwards spiral in European aviation contracts just can't seem to stop.

While I wasn't a fan of the LH deal either at least it would have been better for employees and creditors alike. LH wanted to pay 192m€ and would have kept the whole company as one.



The 192m figure wasn’t just for NIKI, it was for other parts of the business too.
 
Egerton
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:00 pm

Egerton wrote:
As a pair of very long shots, could a remnant of Niki be the third base for LEVEL using the Niki air operators certificate, and or other Vueling base for IAG?


Well, so far so good. Now I wait to see if LEVEL may be involved?
But first IAG-Vueling needs to manage the transition. Presumably it will be minimum change for the first few months?

The plans imply that the Niki brand may well be retained, and the new firm will operate fairly independently of its new shareholder Vueling once strategic things settle down.

It seems that IAG have purchased a competently run Niki. While the strategic direction will be set by IAG, the operational side will be run by Team Niki.
As always, expansion and capital spending will depend on outcomes. Good outcomes delivers expansion and growing independence.
Bad outcomes brings shrinkage, and a new top team.

Overall a very good outcome on day one. Niki, you deserve a competent owner and at last you have got one. Good flying and good luck.
 
Arion640
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:33 pm

Well it was certainly better than LH getting it.
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BAorNoWay
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:01 am

[*]
Arion640 wrote:
Well it was certainly better than LH getting it.


I have to agree. I think LH already controls enough capacity in these markets.

It will be interesting to see how many routes are established that compete with LH Group airlines.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:05 am

Egerton wrote:
The plans imply that the Niki brand may well be retained, and the new firm will operate fairly independently of its new shareholder Vueling once strategic things settle down.


As per the press release it's the other way around: keeping Niki in the short term for transition, merging with Vueling later on. Say goodbye to the brand.
 
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BR715
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:39 am

I'm quite happy with that outcome. IAG's presence here will loosen LH's vice grip on the DACH market at least a little, even though VY's product probably won't be as comfortable as Niki's under AB.
IAG also seems to offer employment contracts on-par with the previous ones, which is a pleasant surprise as well.
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smi0006
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:34 am

Brand consolidation with level make sense. Still not a fan of the level brand but I’m a fan of ensuring maximum leverage off brands.

Can I ask an embarrassing question - we don’t have leisure/ charter airlines in Australia. We just have full service and LCC, what’s the difference between an LCC, and leisure airline, or even charter airline?
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:48 am

Where are the SkyTeam members in all of this? They appear to be hamstrung in Germany and Austria with little strength, even as a whole. AF/KL seem a little too content to stick with Transavia. Why wouldn’t they want to make a bid? Money issues?
 
Cunard
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:25 am

smi0006 wrote:
Brand consolidation with level make sense. Still not a fan of the level brand but I’m a fan of ensuring maximum leverage off brands.

Can I ask an embarrassing question - we don’t have leisure/ charter airlines in Australia. We just have full service and LCC, what’s the difference between an LCC, and leisure airline, or even charter airline?


LLC are a low cost scheduled operation.

Charter Airlines don't generally operate scheduled flights but on behalf of tour operators.

A good example is the German conglomerate TUI with operations in many European countries with their own fleet of aircraft operating for their in house airline TUI Airways taking their passengers to many destinations throughout the world as part of an inclusive tour package holiday, it's how they band it all together to give one seamless product.

With a Europe being an example with so many countries a lot of them head to the likes of the Mediterranean in the summer months when you see loads of charter airlines from all over Europe flying to hundreds of destinations.

You also have to remember that Australia doesn't have that on their doorstep and the same applies to New Zealand. (No Ibiza, Magaluf, Torremolinos)

Any outbound Tourism from both Australia and New Zealand are well catered for by the current airlines and that's why you don't see such airlines down under as you do in Europe.

Wikipedia has a page regarding charter airlines that might make more sense to you.
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Lufthansa
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:30 am

smi0006 wrote:
Brand consolidation with level make sense. Still not a fan of the level brand but I’m a fan of ensuring maximum leverage off brands.

Can I ask an embarrassing question - we don’t have leisure/ charter airlines in Australia. We just have full service and LCC, what’s the difference between an LCC, and leisure airline, or even charter airline?


Probably best a nordic Australian answer that as I have experience with both. Basically before there were LCC the charter carriers pretty much filled the leisure market. But you have to realise unlike the legacy Carriers and the LCC they're more than just airlines. They're part of larger all inclusive travel groups that own hotels, travel agencies and even ships. So... in a leisure market, it's basically part of a one stop shop. They've varied a lot over the years in service standards. Some are quite good, others, basically nothing more than low cost carriers. It's not unusual at all to go to something like an Egyptian beach resort and the same company that owned the store you bought the package from owns the plane, the hotel and everything. In Australia and New Zealand, our market is very different. If you go back far enough most travel agents were owned by Ansett or the old TAA... and they had no interest in getting in this game plus they couldn't fly internationally. There was some experimentation on Ansett's part with Eastwest airlines. But it didn't really amount to anything.

Europe however progressed differently. Heathrow's always been crowded. The likes of BA didn't have any interest in wasting slots when they could use them for Concorde flights. KLM knew leisure traveler would never pay their premiums so they got in on the act and started Transavia, and in Germany you had the likes of Happag Lloyd (part of shipping line that once upon a time operated transatlantic ocean liners) and LTU and Condor. the UK had Britannia Airways and the Likes of Monarch. A lot of their work specialised to places in the Adriatic or Iberian countries. However some of them got long haul aircraft..... that could all of a sudden reach the likes of Cuba and Cuncoon or Goa. These were very much seasonal destinations... not something the likes of BA or LH were going to invest heavily into when they could make far more money out of Los Angeles or Tokyo flying first and business pax. But back to the point. A lot of these airlines were and today still are part of large travel groups like TUI. So... although much of their flying is seasonal... they did have the ability to easily sell excess seats off through their agencies.

The reason you don't see this in the Southern Hemisphere is the flight centre group controls most travel brands. Even those not branded flight centre. They have no such interest in acquiring those assets as they've been very good at getting airlines to aggressively discount their "private fares" (a fare basis only they can sell) so their margins have been higher than other travel agencies. Buying hotels or aircraft would counteract this strategy and go against their business model. There's also antitrust issues as they'd control too much of the market and the government would likely block such transactions.

Product wise... get on youtube and look up Condor, Monarch, Thomas cook and thomson fly and you should get a good idea of product.
 
RichardWelling
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:13 am

Would it be worth IAG’s while to utilise Niki’s DUS and TXL slots for a Level transatlantic operation?
 
spud757
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:15 am

Jayafe wrote:
Egerton wrote:
The plans imply that the Niki brand may well be retained, and the new firm will operate fairly independently of its new shareholder Vueling once strategic things settle down.


As per the press release it's the other way around: keeping Niki in the short term for transition, merging with Vueling later on. Say goodbye to the brand.


I don’t understand Vueling as a brand. From a U.K. market perspective the name just doesn’t translate very well IMHO and I suspect this may also be true in other areas of Europe where Niki operates. As an IAG shareholder I hope IAG will take this opportunity to rebrand the whole of their pan-European short haul LCC ventures as LEVEL in common with their new LCC long haul brand, much like LH group have done with Eurowings. It just feels to me IAG LCC needs a stronger brand that is more easily pronounced [than Vueling] right across European markets, and beyond. LEVEL would probably achieve this.

That said, Iberia Express is another brand I don’t understand when mainline short haul IB pretty much delivers the same product. I get it was to reduce costs, so has separate AOC etc, but why the different brand name? Why not just operate as I2 but look like IB? Over at BA you don’t see BA Cityflyer looking any different in terms of customer facing branding than BA mainline; to the customer it’s BA.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:39 am

WELL that could have gone over much worse. There will be a competitior to ol Lufty in Vienna and most of the employees will keep their job. Now I guess we wait for approval from Brussels.
-Andrés Juánez
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:52 am

I'm sure I have said this before - but I think that Openskies is a better name than either Vueling or Level.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:55 am

They make the same mistake again, changing a well established brand Name into something mo one in the DACH Region knows. We have seen that before with "Condor to Thomas Cook". The reaction was "WTF is Thomas Koch" and the reverse gear game in PDQ, changing back to Condor. EW, Condor and TUIFly, all of them scheduled Operators to warm water Resorts, have all the time in the world to fight Vueling. Meanwhile not only the mentioned carriers will fish in that Pond, FR and U2 will do that as well.

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redcap1962
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:34 am

I ask myself if people who just want to travel cheap really care that much about a brand name when they search for a good connection for a reasonable fare (with the exception of Ryanair, which I personally avoid....)
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melpax
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:30 am

[quote="Lufthansa"][/quote]

You're right about the Flight Centre Group almost operating as a monopoly in Australia. My local mall (Westfield Knox in Melbourne) has 4 seperate Flight Centre outlets, under the Flight Centre, Student Flights, Escape Travel & Cruise About brands. The other 2 travel agents in the mall are an STA travel (whose service is much better than Flight Centre), and a Hello World outlet. Most large malls here have a similar situation. This gives an idea of the clout that Flight Centre has.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:50 am

BAorNoWay wrote:
The announcement we have all been waiting for:

https://www.ft.com/content/358464e8-ecd ... 3b1d7ca85a


Unfortunately behind a paywall, so there's nothing to read. However, here's another article about it (in Dutch):

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... ij-vueling

It says a large part of Niki will be folded into Vueling under a new Austrian AOC. Fifteen aircraft, slots and about 740 employees are part of the deal. IAG is also planning to give Niki (now Vueling Austria) a financial injection of 16,5 million euros.

The article doesn't mention what will happen to the part of Niki that isn't part of the deal, it only speaks about "a large part of Niki" and what will happen to that.
 
WIederling
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:02 am

redzeppelin wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I suspect English speakers will think of Nike.


I associate Niki with a feminine name, and expect most or many English speakers will do the same. "Niki" or "Nicki" or something similar is often used as the familiar or diminutive form of female names like Nicole or Nicola. I know several Nikis -- adults and children. It's pretty common in the USA at least. I have a positive attitude about Niki, although I've never flown with them.


As an example "Andrea" is a male first name in some Swiss and Tyrolean regions.
"Delphin(e)" can be a male or female first name ( France, Latin America . )
( all in the same basic cultural "Abendland" setup )

then it is:
Andreas Nikolaus "Niki" Lauda

I am always suprised that
A: some people can't grasp that there are other naming conventions elsewhere
and
B: that they are not only surprised but also staunchly expect
foreign cultures to conform to their little sandbox of expectations.
C: this from the region that is the biggest mish mash of different cultures
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r2rho
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:19 am

Although in terms of competitive impact, this is a drop of water on a hot stone (to use the German expression), it is better than nothing, and at least LH will not get every last remaining slot at places like VIE. Also, IAG actually has an interest in developing the airline as it (or oneworld for that matter) has basically no presence in the DACH market, whereas LH just wanted the slots to tighten its grip on its fortress hubs.

As Niki's specialty is leisure flying, it won't be challenging the LH domestic monopoly in DACH. And its overall presence is too small to really make any big difference at all in the competitive situation right now. But IAG may use it in the long term to grow a presence in central Europe.
I don't think the damaged Niki brand will remain - it will become Vueling or something else.

I cannot imagine that an artificial Name like VUELING can be successful in the DACH market.

That has been said of every market that Vueling has entered so far. In the end, leisure flyers couldn't care less what the airline is called, as long as it's cheap. Let's see how this develops.

The assets include a maximum of fifteen A320 family aircraft and an attractive portfolio of slots at several airports, including Vienna, Dusseldorf, Munich, Palma or Zurich.
Those slots at DUS, MUC, VIE and ZRH will come in very handy, but let's not be fooled, Niki's presence there is testimonial. Even without Niki, LH will have a close to 70% market share at VIE.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:30 am

Latest news suggests that:

• Niki will be folded into Vueling under a new Austrian AOC.
• 15 aircraft, plus slots and 750 employees are part of the deal.
• IAG will inject €16.5 million into the new Vueling Austria.
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LTU330
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Re: IAG buys NIKI for 20m EUR

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:35 am

T1a wrote:
Sorry to say, but if all of the above is true, I don't like this deal. Founding a new Austrian based company means the current Niki employees will have to re-apply for their own jobs. They will be offered new contracts, which will most likely be worse than their current CBA, which already isn't very good. Also a good way to get rid of “unwanted“ employees, such as high profile union members. The downwards spiral in European aviation contracts just can't seem to stop.

While I wasn't a fan of the LH deal either at least it would have been better for employees and creditors alike. LH wanted to pay 192m€ and would have kept the whole company as one.


Eh ? No one from Air Berlin walked straight in to a new job either. Everyone had to apply again, and on way worse terms and conditions. Like I said before though, most posters here don’t care about that as long as they save a few Euros on their flights. The high profile union members, as in, the Betriebsrat Council are always the very last to leave the dying company, and if it’s anything like in my old company, they will have made sure that they are ok with regards to any takeover.
 
BAorNoWay
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:40 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Latest news suggests that:

• Niki will be folded into Vueling under a new Austrian AOC.
• 15 aircraft, plus slots and 750 employees are part of the deal.
• IAG will inject €16.5 million into the new Vueling Austria.



I can live with the name Vueling Austria.

What percentage of slots does Niki own at the respective airports, MUC/VIE/DUS/ZRH? Are there any other airports NIKI has slots that are attractive?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:45 am

In the end this will barely hurt LH. It seems like the most valued part for IAG were the slots at PMI and VIE. DUS seems to be largely unaffected (going by the number of employees IAG wants to take on). So LH got some competition to warm water destinations from VIE and maybe some to Germany from PMI and that will be it. Probably more of a problem for Condor and Tuifly than for LH and EW. A combined 40 planes of AB going to competitors is an acceptable outcome for LH. And even those 15 for IAG are barley 605 of the last active Niki fleet. It mean about 10 planes were not taken up and they are up for grabs for LH probably with the slots.

Which Brand they keep will make little difference. Vuelling is unknown in DACH and Niki has been killed by AB before returning for a short time during the final days of the ops. It is also a heavily damaged brand.
 
BAorNoWay
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:53 am

According to the EU press release regarding Lufthansa’s purchase of Air Berlin, the overlap of the Lufthansa/Niki routes was quite considerable.

It states:

“Lufthansa's planned acquisition of NIKI posed serious risks that European consumers would face reduced choice and higher prices, long-term. The Commission informed the insolvency administrator of likely competition concerns already during the sales process.
The activities of Lufthansa and NIKI overlapped on around 130 routes. As a result of the takeover, competition would have been very limited on around 70 of these 130 routes, and on around 50 of those routes Lufthansa would have had a quasi-monopoly for the supply of seats to tour operators and passengers.”

So whilst I’m sure the Lufthansa Board of Directors won’t be losing sleep over this, I think it is disingenuous to say that this is not a significant encroachment into LH Group territory and won’t hurt their business.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-5402_en.htm

The main question for LH Group now is, how do they respond?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:41 pm

LH got all the routes and planes (36) that were already flying under the wetlease deal for EW and they got all planes and routes from LGW. U2 took 25 and IAG 15 planes, which is still less than the total LH got and it is likely that LH will at get at least 50% of the free slots in addition. So in the end LH has now better control of the DACH market than before.

And I am sure they prefer IAG/U2 over AB who were burning koney on every flight and dumping ticket prices to get the load factors up or to serve as feeders for EY. (DUS-ARL was one of those routes where you could easily find a A320 with 20 pax on the route)
 
Breathe
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:05 pm

BAorNoWay wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Latest news suggests that:

• Niki will be folded into Vueling under a new Austrian AOC.
• 15 aircraft, plus slots and 750 employees are part of the deal.
• IAG will inject €16.5 million into the new Vueling Austria.



I can live with the name Vueling Austria.

What percentage of slots does Niki own at the respective airports, MUC/VIE/DUS/ZRH? Are there any other airports NIKI has slots that are attractive?

Ah, Willie Walsh missed the opportunity to rename an airline after himself. Fly Willie anyone? :duck:
 
uberflieger
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:36 pm

seahawk wrote:
I am sure they (LH) prefer IAG (U2) over AB


:checkmark:

IAG has a poor record competing in LH Group core markets and the AB 'takeover' only added to Lufti's dominance. Also WW still has to show he can successfully compete in the LCC segment. Vueling so far has failed as a Pan European carrier, but hopefully the substantial NIKI assets help and eventually Oneworld adds some long haul at VIE like seasonal PHL :bigthumbsup:

:airplane:
 
devron
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:26 pm

seahawk wrote:
I Probably more of a problem for Condor and Tuifly than for LH and EW.


Indeed how true, and condor is on my short list to go belly up as well, small old fleet, poor service, and very poor profit margins in an extremly highly competitive market.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:35 am

Condor is part of the Thomas Cook Group they won't go belly up that easy. Their brand Name and product is well established. in Germany. "Service" means flying People from A to B, whatever else Comes on top of that now has to be paid for. DE gives a choice with optional premium products.

The Long haul fleet needs replacement, indeed. May be there will be some Options in the near future..
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stylo777
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:37 am

I dont see Condor going belly up at all. They are experts in their field (leisure flights) and dont try to be an Air Berlin style hybrid carrier. Certainly, Condor has the highest brand recognition between all German leisure airlines (TUIfly, Germania, SunExpress, Eurowings).
 
a350lover
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Re: Who will win in the battle to takeover NIKI?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:08 am

SCQ83 wrote:
LEVEL on the other hand seems to be very successful from BCN. I suspect that if it becomes successful in Paris as well, we might see Vueling disappearing (brand value is low) and everything becoming LEVEL. It does not make a lot of sense either to keep two different brands for short and long haul. Probably Vueling's brand problem is the very reason why IAG started LEVEL instead of Vueling "long haul"

Regarding VIE, I think for IAG the interesting thing would be long-haul low-cost (read: LEVEL). VIE has no low-cost long-haul, neither anywhere nearby in Eastern Europe (and VIE is not far from Slovakia, Czech Republic, Slovenia and Hungary). VIE is a tourism hotspot and much closer to Asia than any IAG hub (LHR, MAD, DUB).


You just said it very right;)

You truly never know what can happen, but this makes a lot of sense to me. I doubt of LEVEL serving soon VIE, though the possibilities are there. Reading through what Mr Walsh said when the purchase was announced, he remarked "Niki was the most viable section of Air Berlin in economic terms, and its focus on leisure matches perfectly Vueling's strategy. This will enable growths for Vueling in Austria, Germany and Switzerland". Now, the question is how, following which strategy? Run as a Vueling subsidiariy can still mean quite different things in branding terms. We'll see

I quite agree @T1a, but that's the way it is (and has been) in Europe for a while. It has equally affected pretty much everyone, and will do more in future, for instance Joon "taking over" AF routes both in short and long-haul markets. Pretty sad. I agree there should be legislation regarding how "transferreable" any employer's production is when it only means shortening the terms of the employee's rights and benefits. This makes me think also of IBX, just founded for cheaper labor, Swiss.... there are so many cases.
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:20 am

uberflieger wrote:
seahawk wrote:
I am sure they (LH) prefer IAG (U2) over AB


:checkmark:

IAG has a poor record competing in LH Group core markets and the AB 'takeover' only added to Lufti's dominance. Also WW still has to show he can successfully compete in the LCC segment. Vueling so far has failed as a Pan European carrier, but hopefully the substantial NIKI assets help and eventually Oneworld adds some long haul at VIE like seasonal PHL :bigthumbsup:

:airplane:


Very true. Any IAG attempt to compete for the LH natural markets would need let's say... "German" vision and its own strategy defined in place. In other words, I don't see much success in Vueling Austria managed from BCN, and don't get me wrong, I am from BCN.

Following up on the "phonetic" topic... how appealing does Level sound in German? lol
Can anyone see LEVEL taking over "difficult-to-pronnounce Vueling", flying short and long-haul low cost for IAG in Europe? This would be painful for both Easyjet and Norwegian.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:31 am

Well Vueling will at least make for some funny pronunciations in German. "Vüling"
 
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SQ22
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:44 am

uberflieger wrote:
IAG has a poor record competing in LH Group core markets and the AB 'takeover' only added to Lufti's dominance. Also WW still has to show he can successfully compete in the LCC segment. Vueling so far has failed as a Pan European carrier, but hopefully the substantial NIKI assets help and eventually Oneworld adds some long haul at VIE like seasonal PHL


German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung summarized it pretty well on Friday: Vueling will most likely continue the modus operandi of Niki, which is to serve routes to vacation destinations in Southern Europe. So it won't be a feeder for long haul.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:22 am

I would expect less than Niki ops. Probably a strong focus on PMI but I am not sure all connections to secondary airports in Spain like Alicante, Almeria, Jerez even Malaga will be kept. In return probably higher frequencies to BCN and PMI and more one-stop connections. Will be interesting to see if they will connect to MAD too, which has already become a significant hub for destinations in Spain from Germany with IB and IBE.

In the end it could be a defensive move by IAG, because LH would have had many slots at PMI if they would control Niki and AB was a pain in the backside for IAG when they ran the hub from PMI. LH would have more power to compete and would probably improve the ops (LH group at Star serve many more destinations from PMI than AB), so they would probably be more effective in getting traffic from secondary Spanish airports and connect them to Europe.
 
WIederling
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:52 am

a350lover wrote:
Following up on the "phonetic" topic... how appealing does Level sound in German? lol
Can anyone see LEVEL taking over "difficult-to-pronnounce Vueling", flying short and long-haul low cost for IAG in Europe? This would be painful for both Easyjet and Norwegian.


Level, Vueling for a German ? just another set of shortish names.

But: Brand names don't have the weight they have in the US.
( in the US people appear conditioned to do reflexive brand recognition ignoring product quality.)

Cue a lot of tags for household things are generic in German and not a brand name.
big exception "Tempo" ( first ever paper hanky. But then today _any_ paper hanky is a Tempo :-)
no brand recognition for Beyersdorf's Tempo.
Murphy is an optimist
 
PanHAM
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:15 am

Level, pronounced in the local Hsssian dialect (and some others as well), sounds like SPOON. Vueling simply means nothing. OTH "JOON" is even worse.
These are faceless names, artificial without a meaning, without a Background. I doubt that they can compete with established brand names such as Condor, Germania, TUIfly and Sunexpress or EW.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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vhtje
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:16 am

Do we know when the deal finalises and the 15 aircraft are back in the sky (where they belong)?

The Niki website is still showing that the airline ceased flying on the 14th December.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
rlwynn
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:41 am

Level. For non German Speakers V is and F in english. So in German Level is basically Spoon.
I can drive faster than you
 
PanHAM
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:50 am

vhtje wrote:
Do we know when the deal finalises and the 15 aircraft are back in the sky (where they belong)?

The Niki website is still showing that the airline ceased flying on the 14th December.


End of March, for the start of the summer schedules.They can be lucky when the big tour Operators kept the doors open.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:03 pm

Well, I guess everyone reads Level in English, which is how I guess they wanted people to refer to the airline. Then, how good or bad it sounds in every possible language of the world would generate endless discussion.

Spaniards feel nothing when we pronnounce "Lufthansa" for instance. It just sounds as "the airline of Germany". I saw the point on the "Vueling" phonetics because non-Spanish speakers do not see what they aimed with that naming. It's a word play in Spanish which puts together the verb "to fly" (in Spanish volar), and the typical "ing" ending for English continious forms.

These days, and for the size of an airline integrated in IAG like Vueling, it can sound a bit silly, I agree. However, back in 2005, when the airline was founded in Barcelona, this was a study-case of good branding at Advertising schools. Google some of their first ads, they are fun!
 
redcap1962
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:11 pm

They could name it Nikiling :duck:
This is your pilot speaking. Welcome to flight one from here to there. We'll be flying at a height of ten feet, going up to twelve and a half feet if we see anything big. My copilot today is a flask of coffee.

Eddie Izzard
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:13 pm

redcap1962 wrote:
They could name it Nikiling :duck:


Make it real please!!! :hyper: :white: :mrgreen:
 
PITflights
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:20 pm

I find it hilarious that this airline is doomed to fail because of its name. If that is true how does Lufthansa which is not easy to say in lots of other countries - how do they get passengers with that name.

If the product, schedule and price is right (I’m going out on a limb here) - I bet people will fly them. If the name is so critical you can list lots of successful airlines the name doesn’t work (Qantas) etc - I love the Qantas name and Lufthansa name

I hope they have some success as it will be good for competition - I’m surprised the EU has allowed so much consolidation into LH group (markets that are so close to each other)
 
a350lover
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:29 pm

PITflights wrote:
I hope they have some success as it will be good for competition - I’m surprised the EU has allowed so much consolidation into LH group (markets that are so close to each other)


Yet more to come maybe? Alitalia... :half:
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Updated: IAG purchases NIKI

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:50 pm

vhtje wrote:
Do we know when the deal finalises and the 15 aircraft are back in the sky (where they belong)?

The Niki website is still showing that the airline ceased flying on the 14th December.


One press report said that the transaction won't complete until February. I expect operations won't start until the next summer season.

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