10 LH 747-8 sitting on ramp in FRA

CREST777 · Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:41 pm

Hi there and happy holidays!

Sitting in FRA now and see at least 10 Lufti 747-8 on the remote ramp with their doors open and clearly not getting ready for a departure. Isn't that a lot of metal to be sitting around? Or am I missing something!?

Thanks for any insight !

GianiDC · Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:47 pm

I guess it has something to do with Christmas and a reduced schedule?

itisi · Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:49 pm

I'll assume Christmas Holidays and flights cancelled.

tomaheath · Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:19 pm

I’d like to see a photo of this.

tom02 · Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:24 pm

LH doesn't fly internationally on most big holidays to give their employees a break. Not sure about European domestic ops during the holidays but i would asume they would be limited

Dutchy · Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:22 pm

wow, that surprises me. No real LH for a few days, I understand that the demand is not so good, but still.

hoons90 · Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:23 pm

The only long haul departures I can find on LH today out of FRA are LH400 to JFK, LH454 to SFO, LH462 to MIA and LH506 to GRU.
Some destinations like PEK and PVG won't get service at all until the new years!

Nicoeddf · Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:28 pm

tom02 wrote:
LH doesn't fly internationally on most big holidays to give their employees a break. Not sure about European domestic ops during the holidays but i would asume they would be limited

Quatsch.
It is a simple question of demand.
...giving the employees a break? Seriously...

Gr8Circle · Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:03 pm

hoons90 wrote:
The only long haul departures I can find on LH today out of FRA are LH400 to JFK, LH454 to SFO, LH462 to MIA and LH506 to GRU.
Some destinations like PEK and PVG won't get service at all until the new years!

I'm sure the flights to BOM, DEL and BLR would be operating as usual......they are fairly long haul.....

shankly · Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:04 pm

Their two A340's from FRA and MUC turned up here in CPT.....BA managed their usual two 744's. Surprised we've not seen a LH 748 down here yet

theginge · Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:46 pm

tom02 wrote:
LH doesn't fly internationally on most big holidays to give their employees a break. Not sure about European domestic ops during the holidays but i would asume they would be limited

Nothing to do with that, purely driven by reduced commercial demand.

thomasphoto60 · Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:43 pm

A little off topic perhaps, but did LH downgauge IAH from the ‘380’ to the 748 or this a seasonal shift? The 748 has been servicing the route for almost two weeks, just a bit curious.

EK413 · Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:20 pm

As already mentioned it’s due to the lack of demand during Xmas break & European winter combine the 2 & you need to cancel flights.

EK413

raylee67 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:30 am

Business demand may be low, but there are no premium leisure travel demand? I guess Europe is indeed very different from Asia. I was flying out of HKG on Dec 24 and it's packed with holiday family vacationers. CX's check-in counters are just full of people.

aemoreira1981 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:05 am

I also notice that LH also suspends MUC service to JFK for the last week of the year. I wonder why Lufthansa flies such a sparse long-haul schedule the last week of the year. BTW, of note is that JFK has maintained A380 service for the winter schedule, along with an A330-300.

RetiredNWA · Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:10 am

thomasphoto60 wrote:
A little off topic perhaps, but did LH downgauge IAH from the ‘380’ to the 748 or this a seasonal shift? The 748 has been servicing the route for almost two weeks, just a bit curious.

If you’ve been seeing a 747-800 instead of an A380, what do you think they’ve done? You have answered your own question.

fraspotter · Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:43 am

RetiredNWA wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
A little off topic perhaps, but did LH downgauge IAH from the ‘380’ to the 748 or this a seasonal shift? The 748 has been servicing the route for almost two weeks, just a bit curious.

If you’ve been seeing a 747-800 instead of an A380, what do you think they’ve done? You have answered your own question.

Actually that didn’t answer the question. The fact that it’s a 747-8 now for the past few weeks doesn’t say whether it’s a permanent change in equipment or just seasonal.

flyguy84 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:52 am

People keep saying “cancelled flights”... flights weren’t cancelled, they were never operating!

notaxonrotax · Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:59 am

RetiredNWA wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
747-800

747-800 does not exist.

No Tax On Rotax

TWA772LR · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:07 am

I've been wondering if it's a union contract thing or some kind of management goodwill.

When I worked for LH in 2014/15 in Houston, there was almost no LH flight in December 2014.

LH658 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:19 am

IAH is getting the 747-8 for temporarily. Europeans airlines are pretty good about cutting capacity during holiday times, even during Thanksgiving.

LJ · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:23 am

raylee67 wrote:
Business demand may be low, but there are no premium leisure travel demand? I guess Europe is indeed very different from Asia. I was flying out of HKG on Dec 24 and it's packed with holiday family vacationers. CX's check-in counters are just full of people.

Christmas Eve is more important than Christmas Day in Germany. Thus the majority of Germans want to be at their destination on the 24th. Moreover, it's not only Europe as the flights have to return to Europe. If it would have been economical to fly these flights, than the aircraft wouldn't be sitting at FRA.

conaly · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:29 am

Yeah, probably christmas. I'm currently sitting on the train to FRA. It wasn't that easy to find a good flight to CAI, there wasn't even a fitting feeder from NUE, either because all were full or didn't operate at all.

tomaheath wrote:
I’d like to see a photo of this.

I'll try to take one once I'm in FRA and see something like this.

Barbro · Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:26 am

Probably also labour issues: the pay to emplyees during xmas would probably be huge compared to normal, making the breakeven point even more elusive.

mast2407 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:15 am

I would imagine this is plainly Christmas. Ryanair has no flights operating today, so I’d imagine every base they operate out of is looking pretty epic! EasyJet has 3 flights operating on FR24 today currently.
Aer Lingus has 50 aircraft on the ground in Dublin, out of the ~62 aircraft in its livery, 3 others are in the US, 3 are in Shannon, 6 are in Cork, 1 in Belfast. (According to FR24).

DeltaWings · Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:07 pm

They are sadly already being phased out....

Nicoeddf · Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:34 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I've been wondering if it's a union contract thing or some kind of management goodwill.

When I worked for LH in 2014/15 in Houston, there was almost no LH flight in December 2014.

No it isn't. Simple demand!

And "almost no flight"? Seriously? I would hazard a bet that until 20th at least the flight was daily.

Nicoeddf · Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:35 pm

Barbro wrote:
Probably also labour issues: the pay to emplyees during xmas would probably be huge compared to normal, making the breakeven point even more elusive.

No, demand. Simple demand.

thomasphoto60 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:49 pm

notaxonrotax wrote:
RetiredNWA wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
747-800

747-800 does not exist.

No Tax On Rotax

Wow, forgive the typo, I had just enough time to pound out the question as I was heading out the door, I thought that I had typed 748.

StTim · Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:59 pm

No mercy for a typo is there!

LTU932 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:12 pm

DeltaWings wrote:
They are sadly already being phased out....

You're confusing the 747-400 with the 747-8. Otherwise, please offer proof that the -8 is indeed being phased out.

thomasphoto60 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:23 pm

StTim wrote:
No mercy for a typo is there!

Yep, I’ve been on this forum since day 1 and have learned that typos and grammatical errors are easy pickings. Still, most know what I was referencing.

LH779 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:36 pm

LTU932 wrote:
DeltaWings wrote:
They are sadly already being phased out....
You're confusing the 747-400 with the 747-8. Otherwise, please offer proof that the -8 is indeed being phased out.

Not even the -400 is currently being phased out. The current 13 -400s will remain in the fleet until LH gets their 777-9s.

LTU932 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:10 pm

LH779 wrote:
LTU932 wrote:
DeltaWings wrote:
They are sadly already being phased out....
You're confusing the 747-400 with the 747-8. Otherwise, please offer proof that the -8 is indeed being phased out.

Not even the -400 is currently being phased out. The current 13 -400s will remain in the fleet until LH gets their 777-9s.

I meant the -400 in general. That's the type that is being phased out. I haven't heard of any -8s that are going to the dessert.

CREST777 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Thanks for all your insight! I furgured demand must slump now. I was on LH491 on the 748 and it was a seasonal equip. change due to fAB TXL ops, but seeing all those queens was a sight!

Happy Holidays!

hOMSaR · Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:34 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
Barbro wrote:
Probably also labour issues: the pay to emplyees during xmas would probably be huge compared to normal, making the breakeven point even more elusive.

No, demand. Simple demand.

Demand vs. cost.

If the cost is higher to pay crews and airport staff during a holiday, then the breakeven point is higher. Plenty of routes have lower demand, and even many of those that could have enough demand to sustain service at normal costs might not have enough to pay for the increased crew costs.

teme82 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:41 pm

Yeah saw a picture from wilco737 in Instagram and he is holiday mode. I expect rest of the pilots for LH's B744/8 fleet would do the same

ExDubai · Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:41 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
tom02 wrote:
LH doesn't fly internationally on most big holidays to give their employees a break. Not sure about European domestic ops during the holidays but i would asume they would be limited

Quatsch.
It is a simple question of demand.
...giving the employees a break? Seriously...

Stop bashing the Lufti management

TWA772LR · Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:42 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I've been wondering if it's a union contract thing or some kind of management goodwill.

When I worked for LH in 2014/15 in Houston, there was almost no LH flight in December 2014.

No it isn't. Simple demand!

And "almost no flight"? Seriously? I would hazard a bet that until 20th at least the flight was daily.

Nope. Absolutely no one I worked with worked in December of 2014 in IAH. For almost a whole month there wasn't an LH flight into Houston.

FlyingSicilian · Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:24 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I've been wondering if it's a union contract thing or some kind of management goodwill.

When I worked for LH in 2014/15 in Houston, there was almost no LH flight in December 2014.

No it isn't. Simple demand!

And "almost no flight"? Seriously? I would hazard a bet that until 20th at least the flight was daily.

Nope. Absolutely no one I worked with worked in December of 2014 in IAH. For almost a whole month there wasn't an LH flight into Houston.

Well this year it was daily until at least the 23rd as I was on the flight FRA-IAH on the 23rd. I was upper deck and only spoke with a couple of F/As but they also noted it was seasonal and two were very happy to come to Houston get some warmer weather. Apparently the German consulate invited them to some big Christmas party also. Good times. But the A380 will be back after the new year.

yuomi · Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Same thing at hubs across Europe.

AMS, CDG and particularly LHR are full of long haul aircraft sitting idle as Christmas Day is a reduced schedule for long haul routes. 744s littered across the ramps at LHR every December 25th. It really is an impressive sight.

TW870 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Does demand in German long haul markets drop off further over Christmas than other European markets? I just wonder because I see that AF is operating its full normal winter schedule on JFK-CDG through the holiday, with a 772, 380, and 789 plus the DL 333. I would have thought there there would be decent tourist demand to go to Germany for Christmas - but perhaps that is just vastly outweighed by the banking industry slowing down and a steep falloff in local traffic with people who want to be home for the holiday.

NG263 · Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:37 pm

So much wrong stuff being posted in here... Lufthansa has done this often in the past already and that has nothing to do with labour issues or phase out of older aircraft but is a simple demand thing. The biggest 'grounding' happens during New Year's Eve where they start parking planes even on parts of the taxiways (at least this was the case last year, on taxiway L between N1 and N3)

Source: http://www.aero.de/news-25735/Lufthansa ... zeuge.html

only in german unfortunately and from one year ago

cofannyc · Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:39 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Nope. Absolutely no one I worked with worked in December of 2014 in IAH. For almost a whole month there wasn't an LH flight into Houston.

This is ridiculous. According to OAG schedule data, LH had flights scheduled December 1-23 in 2014. According to DOT T-100 data, they operated 21 flights.

TWA772LR · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:18 pm

cofannyc wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Nope. Absolutely no one I worked with worked in December of 2014 in IAH. For almost a whole month there wasn't an LH flight into Houston.

This is ridiculous. According to OAG schedule data, LH had flights scheduled December 1-23 in 2014. According to DOT T-100 data, they operated 21 flights.

Looking back on it, it may have just been the time spanning Christmas and New Years. Either way, I didn't have a good time working there and I've moved on.

Merry Christmas! :santahat:

Nicoeddf · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:33 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
cofannyc wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Nope. Absolutely no one I worked with worked in December of 2014 in IAH. For almost a whole month there wasn't an LH flight into Houston.

This is ridiculous. According to OAG schedule data, LH had flights scheduled December 1-23 in 2014. According to DOT T-100 data, they operated 21 flights.

Looking back on it, it may have just been the time spanning Christmas and New Years. Either way, I didn't have a good time working there and I've moved on.

Merry Christmas!

Which sounds pretty similar to what I tried to tell you above...

Merry Christmas!

conaly · Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:59 pm

There were only very few LH widebodies operating. Didn't see too many at the terminal, at least much much less than on a normal day. Most of them were standing on the south side or in the cargo area. Even quite a lot narrowbodies were not in operation, as many of them were standing on the tarmac in front of terminal 2. Some pics from today afternoon:

N14AZ · Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:20 pm

Yapp, this topic pops up almost every year...

Picture from 2012:

PanHAM · Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:24 am

DC10s in 2012? Check that out. My bad early in the morning. MD11Fs of course and they have no customers "between the years"

A reduced schedule for the Christmas season has been Standard for decades. And LH does not only serve the German market, they are a European Airline serving the European market.

Lofty · Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:47 am

LH are not the only ones the BA fleet comes home to LHR for Christmas with around 30 A/C parked up and for Thanks Giving a smaller number of A/C park up.

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