Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Aptivaboy
Topic Author
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:37 pm

Apologies if this has already been posted. I did a search and didn't see a story on this on the site.

A woman is claiming that United bumped her, or perhaps erased her reservation, in order to give her first class seat to Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. I must admit, United's claim that she deleted or cancelled her own reservation using the United app is pretty far fetched. I mean, she was just sitting there at the airport, chose to cancel her own reservation, and then stayed there to board the plane? Or what, she butt cancelled when she sat down in the lounge? I tend to think we're talking about a UAL employee or station that was attempting to curry favor with the congresscritter at the expense of a passenger who paid for her ticket with miles. I will say that Congresswoman Lee's attempt to inject race into the issue is pretty low and shameful. However one feels about Congresswoman Lee, pro or con, this appears to have had nothing to do with race, but apparently with poor business practices and poor customer service. Read on.

https://www.facebook.com/jeanmarie.simo ... 2092980978

http://www.newsweek.com/accused-united- ... lee-758354

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ician.html

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/36637 ... ackson-lee

A lot of these stories are essentially repeating the same byline, but in the interests of fairness I didn't want to publish a story just from MSNBC or just from Foxnews, as that might open the political floodgates from folks on the left or right - way too much politics here, lately.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Non descriptive title
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Another United gaffe.

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:55 pm

Another one sided story. My opinion is that the probability of UA canceling her ticket as she claims is low. Something else happened and only UA knows.

My guess for a possible situation is that her flight was delayed, so she looked for alternatives. That red box in the United app allows a passenger to change their flight free of charge. She may have changed it and then tried to change back, but lost her seat. I have seen many times when someone with a first class seat switches flights during weather delays, only to try to switch back once the other flight is also delayed, but finds out that their original seat is gone. Once they upgrade someone, the original person is out of luck since they switched flights. You cant change your mind unless your original flight still has space, yet people still yell and scream about it.

I think the chances of bumping a revenue psssenger to upgrade a politician who is not in a leadership position with security is low. Losing a seat to an air marshal can happen.

In the end we dont know and are just seeing the opinion of an irate passenger telling one side.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: Another United gaffe.

Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:04 pm

OMG somebody has a customer service issue with a business!!!!!!!

This almost never happens. Good thing so many news outlets are throwing their resources at this story. This is big. I expect at least 500 responses to this thread alone.
I can’t remember the last time someone took to social media to complain. Unprecedented I tell you.
 
727200
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Another United gaffe.

Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:20 pm

Are you reading same article we are or is your natual bias just showing threw. Clearly the history on the down graded PNR shows HER app is what changed her flight, but then you seem to have selectively not mentioned it. Perhaps before you spout off, you might want to gather your data before you end up looking like an arse.
 
Cedar
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:07 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:36 am

"
Are you reading same article we are or is your natual bias just showing threw. Clearly the history on the down graded PNR shows HER app is what changed her flight, but then you seem to have selectively not mentioned it. Perhaps before you spout off, you might want to gather your data before you end up looking like an arse"


:thumbsup:

The only reason this is in the news is because of the first UA incident, ever since then people just seem to be aching to catch UA or post something about UA, in order to get something for nothing. Not everything on Social Media is true - it is one person's opinion or perspective. Airlines don't go around cancelling people's reservations.
 
flyguy84
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:38 am

This story is nonsense. Passenger was downgraded and immediately compensated with a 500 dollar voucher. There is no problem here or failure. This is a case of an individual trying to take advantage of the situation.
SFO
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3625
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:54 am

Ok if the congress woman is black and the other passenger is white and pulling the race card. To what end. Makes no sense.

Ok what I get from the article is she canceled a flight due to wether in the past and showed that info to the WP. But united sbowed the latest flight was delayed and shd cancilled to rebook on another flight. Funny how she bitched to the WP for dropping story because United showed she had cancelled it after the weather delay was listed. Well darlin you already showed you habe done what United claims in the past and they had data to prove it. YOUR FAULT, get over yourself.
 
kiowa
Posts: 759
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:15 am

A Congress person vs a lawyer!! Is there no honor??? Is there no truth???

My only issue is with who paid the first class ticket price for a politician. Somehow I know I did.
 
flyguy84
Posts: 770
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:53 am

kiowa wrote:
A Congress person vs a lawyer!! Is there no honor??? Is there no truth???

My only issue is with who paid the first class ticket price for a politician. Somehow I know I did.

She didn’t buy an F ticket. She likely was upgraded using status. So no, you didn’t.
SFO
 
Flaps
Posts: 1654
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:57 am

As much as I dislike the particular congresswoman involved, i dont think she or who she was had anything to do with it. The woman who got bumped made a mistake when using her app then just tried to claim her 15 minutes of fame. Heck she may have even thought that her story was what really happened. Having just this moment completed my 30th Christmas season in this business and all of the associated glory that goes with that, Im finding it very hard to garner any sympathy for the supposed "victim" here.
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5871
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:18 am

To make things more unusual, Flight 788, according to Simon, was not at full capacity. Whole rows remained empty for the flight, making Simon’s seat change all the more strange. “It was way less than packed, huge number of empty seats,” said Simon.


It was then that a man identifying himself as a Texas congressman sat down next to her. Simon claims the man told her that he was glad she had made it on the flight and that Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee was the reason she’d been bumped.

According to Simon, the congressman said, “Jackson Lee gives us all a bad name; it’s shameful,” and pointed out that the airport is in Jackson Lee’s district, Texas’s 18th Congressional District. Up until that conversation Simon said, she didn’t know who Jackson Lee was.


“After thoroughly examining our electronic records, we found that upon receiving a notification that Flight 788 was delayed due to weather, the customer appears to have canceled her flight from Houston to Washington, D.C., within the United mobile app,” United said in a statement. “As part of the normal preboarding process, gate agents began clearing standby and upgrade customers, including the first customer on the waitlist for an upgrade.”

Simon has rebuffed this claim with a screenshot of the United website she shared with Yahoo that shows only one “inactive” flight on her profile: a trip to Houston in August that was canceled due to Hurricane Harvey. United fired back by saying that the trip from Houston to D.C. would not appear as canceled as she ultimately did take the flight.



Internal data from the airline shared with reporters at the Houston Chronicle in support of their claims could not be independently verified.






Later a flight attendant approached Simon and asked if she was going to disrupt the flight. Simon responded, “I just want to go home.” The flight attendant warned Simon that she could return with a security guard and have her escorted off of the plane.
[/quote]

Wow, this threat is being used a little bit to easy and to often by US Airlines it seems ...


More infor and phtos here:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teacher ... 01253.html
 
daron4000
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:17 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:55 am

For those quick to dispute the lawyer's story, this Congresswoman has a long history of causing trouble and making a scene traveling between Washington and Houston:

In early March, Burruss got a phone call from Rebecca Cox, a Continental Airlines governmental affairs vice president at the airline's Washington office. According to Burruss, Cox bluntly declared, "We have been dealing with the congresswoman for three years now, and we are tired of her bad behavior. Something has got to happen."

As an airline Gold Card carrier with plenty of frequent-flier miles, Lee routinely upgrades her airline seats to first class, not an unusual arrangement. But Lee had come to expect other deluxe perks not always available in Continental's non-hub cities, Cox explained.

She then described an incident the previous month when Lee boarded a flight at National, and found the menu did not include a seafood special she had wanted.

"She screamed at the top of her lungs at least a minute," Burruss quotes Cox as telling her. "She embarrassed the flight attendants and the passengers in first class. And she embarrassed herself."

According to Burruss, Cox claimed Lee declared, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. Where is my seafood meal? I know it was ordered!"

When Burruss asked Cox what could be done, Cox asked that her message be relayed directly to Lee, and then joked, "We have already given her the Delta Airlines schedule."

Cox was not available to comment, although a Continental source confirms Cox did call Burruss and discuss problems in dealing with Lee. According to Burruss, Lee routinely demands three first-class reservations on the carrier for Monday and Tuesday when she is in Washington, and then decides at the last minute which one to use. The airline was fed up with the arrangement, and began reducing the reservations to coach class, a development that infuriated Lee when staffers told her they could not guarantee her first-class seats.

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/the-insider-6570168
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15272
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:15 pm

Let us not forget UA has a disturbing history and several executives fired over the 'chairman's flight' for the Chair of the Board of Directors of the Port Authority of NY & NJ to curry favorable treatment by the PANYNJ for airport operations at EWR. No one in politics should get 'special' treatment and if booked and paid for a coach seat, they shouldn't be bumped up to Biz/1st as in effect it is a bribe and that is illegal. Besides, such politicians should know what almost all their voters go through with airlines. They should be sitting with and have to listen to real people and their problems, not business executives and relatively rich persons in Biz/1st they already have excessive contact with.
Yes, it is possible the woman who was bumped screwed up her reservation. It is also possible that as she was using miles that she would get a lower assurance of the seat vs a full paid 1st Class pax. Still this looks ugly and adds to the hate for UA.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:33 pm

ltbewr wrote:
No one in politics should get 'special' treatment and if booked and paid for a coach seat, they shouldn't be bumped up to Biz/1st as in effect it is a bribe and that is illegal.


Still this looks ugly and adds to the hate for UA.

So if she is a 1k because of the amount she flies, she isn’t entitled to those benefits because she’s a politician? How does that work?

And how is UA following established procedures to grant battlefield upgrades, which happens hundreds of times per day, make them look ugly?

Would it have been better for them to skip over her on the upgrade list because of who she is?

Think about it and please explain your reasoning
 
jayunited
Posts: 2961
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:42 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Let us not forget UA has a disturbing history and several executives fired over the 'chairman's flight' for the Chair of the Board of Directors of the Port Authority of NY & NJ to curry favorable treatment by the PANYNJ for airport operations at EWR. No one in politics should get 'special' treatment and if booked and paid for a coach seat, they shouldn't be bumped up to Biz/1st as in effect it is a bribe and that is illegal. Besides, such politicians should know what almost all their voters go through with airlines. They should be sitting with and have to listen to real people and their problems, not business executives and relatively rich persons in Biz/1st they already have excessive contact with.
Yes, it is possible the woman who was bumped screwed up her reservation. It is also possible that as she was using miles that she would get a lower assurance of the seat vs a full paid 1st Class pax. Still this looks ugly and adds to the hate for UA.


First let me say I haven't read the internal report yet on this incident so I don't know UA's version but what I can comment on is from my experience.
The people who were involved in the chairman flight are no longer working for UA and launching a new service to a destination is completely different than upgrading a passenger, one dealt with executives this incident deals with a gate agent. Just because she is a politician does not mean she received special treatment, any one who has spent any fare amount of time at an airport has seen a lot of politicians traveling to and from DCA. Many veteran politicians are 1K's they have earned it or they are at the top tier of each of the other airlines loyalty program simply because they travel so much. On many domestic flights UA still offers free upgrades this includes flights to/from DCA. Taking that into consideration that it is no surprise that this congress woman was upgraded especially considering how long she has been in congress. Just the length of time she has been there and all those years of traveling back and forth on CO and now UA she has probably racked up a lot of miles.
The second part deals with how did this seat become available? United uses SHARES for passenger service and any and everything an employee does is SHARES is recorded and can be tracked. When you pull up SHARES history each entry is recorded using the first three letter of the employees last name but more importantly the employees file number which is unique to every employee (just like social security numbers) allows every entry to be tracked. This is why comparing the chairman's flight to this situation makes no sense to completely different scenarios. Then we have to take into account the UA app which basically allows passenger to do what ever they want with their reservation. Here is what we know the flight was delayed do to severe weather conditions at IAH, from my experience when a flight is delayed whether it for weather, mechanical, crew, aircraft damage or any other reason and that delay extends past then next flights departure time there are some passengers who will use the app to change their flight to the next departure. It is a smart move especially for passengers in first class or passengers who have status because you can change your flights for free as long as the next flight is schedule to leave on the same day. What a lot of passengers fail to realize is once they change their flight and confirm the change they have given up their seat on their original reservation or they have canceled their original seat on their original flight. To be perfectly honest airlines run into this problem a lot especially during inclement weather, where their original flight is delayed the next flight shows on-time they jump to that flight then it get delayed but after they have confirmed the change then they want to come back to their original flight but what they don't understand is they no longer have a seat on their original flight. You can't hold two seats on two different flights when you only purchase one seat. The moment you confirm the change of flight and confirm your seat on a different flight your seat is released on your original flight. I think that is what happened here the passenger jumped to a different flight that flight was then delayed she probably hear the boarding announcement for her original flight decided to go back to that flight thinking UA would hold her seat but by the time she got their her seat was given away to the first person who was on the upgrade list.

Without reading the official report I think this is what happened UA has policies and procedures in place that cover bribes, doing favors, performing services with the promise of some form of repayment later. If a UA (IAH) employee did in fact cancel this woman reservation it wouldn't be the employees word against the passengers word it would be the employees word against the computer and the initials of their last name their employee file number, their also is time and date stamp would be right there in history, preserved and that person would be fired. If that is not enough SHARES is linked to UNIMATIC which also records and saves everything in history on a different server the tis separate from SHARES, but with UNIMATIC it tells you what PID or computer terminal the employee was signed into it also records the time and the date. Armed with that information UA could then proceed to pull security footage and really have the employee dead to rights. I just don't see a regular, non-executive employee risking their job for a congresswoman.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7363
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:56 pm

Here goes another bad PR situation for United. Oscar Munoz needs to go,
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13237
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:32 pm

So basically this story happened because a politician dissed on another politician...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:56 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Here goes another bad PR situation for United. Oscar Munoz needs to go,

Why?
Because somebody makes up a story the CEO need to be fired?
Is this where we are in society now?
 
NichCage
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:18 pm

There is always two sides to every story. Maybe an one time mistake was made here.
 
Route66
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:38 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Ok if the congress woman is black and the other passenger is white and pulling the race card. To what end. Makes no sense.


Article I read (top headline on Google News Business section) says the congresswoman brought out the race card. How surprising. And how tiring.

“Since this was not any fault of mine, the way the individual continued to act appeared to be, upon reflection, because I was an African-American woman, seemingly an easy target along with the African-American flight attendant who was very, very nice,” Jackson Lee told the newspaper. “This saddens me, especially at this time of year given all of the things we have to work on to help people.”

Simon told the Chronicle there wasn’t a racial motivation behind her complaint.

“I had no idea who was in my seat when I complained at the gate that my seat had been given to someone else,” she said. “There is no way you can see who is in a seat from inside the terminal.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3719067
 
WYLTK
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:44 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:00 pm

Of the top five airlines (by size) in North America...

AA leadership -- 100% white [1]
Delta leadership -- 90% white [2]
Southwest leadership -- 96.5% white [3]
United leadership -- 96% white [4]
Air Canada leadership -- 96% white [5]

I could go on and on and on down the list......

So, it appears, factually, that United is no different than any other players in their game when it comes to (the lack of) race in leadership. Nothing to see here.

So, remind me again what race at United has to do with this issue and why everyone is foaming at the mouth to bring it up?????


[1]: https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-servic ... p-bios.jsp
[2]: http://news.delta.com/tags/leader-bios
[3]: https://www.swamedia.com/executives
[4]: http://ir.united.com/corporate-governan ... an-roitman
[5]: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... phies.html
 
cschleic
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:31 pm

As as all too common these days, the post is becoming political. And certain news outlets are pushing it as a political story. That's what our country is coming too, politicizing everything. That's bad news in thel long run for the country.

Back to the issue...sounds like it's related to FF status and an upgrade list. And Reps and Senators in Washington, regardless of affiliation, do a lot of flying.
 
Indy
Posts: 4932
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:50 pm

There are two scenarios here and either are possible. It is possible a UA rep bumped the F pax out of the seat to make room for a member of Congress. If that is the case then the rep needs to be fired. It is also possible the pax was looking for an alternate flight and inadvertently gave up the F seat and was embarrassed and pretended to be the victim. Either is possible and we probably will never know the truth.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:52 pm

Question, if the Congresswoman has been this bad in the days of Continental, why hasn't she been banned? Has it just not been that bad, is it not true, or is it just a bad PR idea (or both).
 
Trk1
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:00 pm

This is a non story. As many have indicated the passenger lost her seat due to using her app. She was then given
a new seat on the plane. Had nothing to to with a congress member on the flight.

To much of this crap on the internet and to some on this forum
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:50 pm

Indy wrote:
Either is possible and we probably will never know the truth.

We do know the truth. UA produced evidence that the customer changed her flight therefore loosing her seat on the original flight that she tried to board. This is clearly stated in the article.

But does truth even matter anymore?
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:53 pm

Jetty wrote:
You're defending a very abrasive, very rude, and very stupid person.

Despite her personality flaws, what did she do wrong in this situation? She was an elite customer who received a battlefield upgrade. Why is this even still a story?
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4290
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:07 pm

Please keep the thread on topic. It's becoming very political, and some racist comments have even been made (and deleted). Please just try to stick to the issue at hand without getting involved in political battles, flame wars, or making hateful statements.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5043
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:23 pm

Irrespective of whether or not the woman whose seat was changed did so herself or it happened without her knowledge, the congresswoman's reaction in which she immediately called the woman a racist is beyond disgusting. Completely uncalled for, unworthy of someone who serves in congress. Has she been called out on that one yet? Because she should. Unacceptable.
 
User avatar
Blimpie
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:31 pm

B737900ER wrote:
Indy wrote:
But does truth even matter anymore?


As someone who spends 50-60 hours a week for the past thirty plus years working for the mainstream media from low level newspaper photographer up to a senior editor position, I can easily answer this with: No, absolutely not. People want news editorialized in a fashion that both entertains them and supports whichever skewed leanings they have. The only truth in the news is only a narrative that validates their opinion prior to even reading the article, and if it does not validate it, they scream fake news, or the media is liberal/faux. It holds true regardless of which side of the political spectrum you follow.

Back on topic. It wouldn't matter what proof UA shows, people are going to argue and fight it all the way to the bank.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
MR27122
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:03 am

Logic. How many times has anybody upon this website accidentally canceled their flight??? How many times has anybody upon this website accidentally canceled their flight after flying the first leg of a connection??? Speaking for myself, I'm "proudly" @ 0.00%. The pax in this instance, appears to know enough about FF programs to have gotten a first-class award flight to South/Central America.

I agree that the point of this occurrence is pointless & media fodder. A discussion of RACE triggered by this specific occurrence is imbecilic.

I'm making an assumption here....but I suspect that Members of Congress possess a strong sense of self-importance when they're amongst the "general public"...such as flying, shopping, driving, etc. Also, I suspect that it is always in the best interest of an airline to absolutely satisfy those in Government...AND THAT DAMN SEAFOOD DINNER OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN ON THAT FLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
 
User avatar
APettyJ
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:04 am

jayunited wrote:
. The moment you confirm the change of flight and confirm your seat on a different flight your seat is released on your original flight. I think that is what happened here the passenger jumped to a different flight that flight was then delayed she probably hear the boarding announcement for her original flight decided to go back to that flight thinking UA would hold her seat but by the time she got their her seat was given away to the first person who was on the upgrade list.

Without reading the official report I think this is what happened UA has policies and procedures in place that cover bribes, doing favors, performing services with the promise of some form of repayment later. If a UA (IAH) employee did in fact cancel this woman reservation it wouldn't be the employees word against the passengers word it would be the employees word against the computer and the initials of their last name their employee file number, their also is time and date stamp would be right there in history, preserved and that person would be fired. If that is not enough SHARES is linked to UNIMATIC which also records and saves everything in history on a different server the tis separate from SHARES, but with UNIMATIC it tells you what PID or computer terminal the employee was signed into it also records the time and the date. Armed with that information UA could then proceed to pull security footage and really have the employee dead to rights. I just don't see a regular, non-executive employee risking their job for a congresswoman.


I was thinking along a similar line concerning there must be some type of digital trail, albeit from the angle that the woman would have received a confirmation number. I would think UA would have sent evidence to her, in the form of this confirmation number and other details like time of transaction. Why not mention that they have this info in a press release? The fact that they haven't makes me question their side. As for why an employee would risk their neck, perhaps they thought the risk was minimal. Afterall, it has been mentioned in a couple of articles that the congressman that sat next to Simon in her re-assigned seat and even on Twitter that they had seen similar situations involving the congresswoman several times before. The previous instances perhaps not enough noise had been made. Perhaps they never involved a lawyer who knew what buttons to push to make a big scene. Nevertheless, by getting away with it before, the risk of getting caught and fired may have seemed less than missing an opportunity to cultivate favor with the congresswoman, or even more just to avoid incurring her disfavor and wrath.
 
Indy
Posts: 4932
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:53 am

B737900ER wrote:
Indy wrote:
Either is possible and we probably will never know the truth.

We do know the truth. UA produced evidence that the customer changed her flight therefore loosing her seat on the original flight that she tried to board. This is clearly stated in the article.

But does truth even matter anymore?


I say that because of the comment in the story that states...

"Internal data from the airline shared with reporters at the Houston Chronicle in support of their claims could not be independently verified."
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:06 am

This stinks

So United say she cancelled. Maybe she was flight-hopping? Trying to get herself rebooked on another flight as the UA flight had a mechanical delay AT THAT TIME and that's why Ms Jackson Lee was upgraded?

And to the OP....please, please don't post links to the Daily Mail. That is even more rabid than Fox Noise and frequently ends up in court over its stories. News, it is not....
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:24 am

APettyJ wrote:
I would think UA would have sent evidence to her, in the form of this confirmation number and other details like time of transaction. Why not mention that they have this info in a press release? The fact that they haven't makes me question their side.

UA did, but according to the article she refuses to believe it, as do most people on this site.

Members of Congress fly all the time. Her particular presence on the flight is really no big deal. Her, Ted Poe, and others fly this route weekly. To say that a random agent, or UA at large bumped her up to curry favor makes no sense. On the other hand if the passenger changed her flight, or accepted a flight change because of a delay that would actually prove logical. But where the drama in that?
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:32 am

MR27122 wrote:
Logic. How many times has anybody upon this website accidentally canceled their flight??? How many times has anybody upon this website accidentally canceled their flight after flying the first leg of a connection??? Speaking for myself, I'm "proudly" @ 0.00%. The pax in this instance, appears to know enough about FF programs to have gotten a first-class award flight to South/Central America.

If your flight is delayed UA will automatically send you a back up itinerary to your UA app. If you select accept these changes your original ticket gets CANCELLED. Yes CANCELLED, unbelievable I know, and you get rebooked on a new ticket. Your original seat gets put back into the inventory pool and if nobody buys it someone gets upgraded. According to the electronic record this is what happened. Logic. But since we aren’t playing logic the consensus is that UA has doctored the records to cover for a corrupt employee trying to gain favor with an inconsequential congresswoman. Are you guys hearing yourselves?

And she doesn’t know enough about FF benefits to avoid paying 140,000 miles to fly to Guatemala. That’s about they absolute worse use of miles.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4794
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:21 am

flyguy84 wrote:
This story is nonsense. Passenger was downgraded and immediately compensated with a 500 dollar voucher. There is no problem here or failure. This is a case of an individual trying to take advantage of the situation.


Wow you are so biased. This women booked a first class seat and deserves one. United offered a first class seat and she paid alot f miles for that seat. If united didn't want to do offer this, they should have sold it. It's totally united fault. This customer did nothing wrong, flyertalk shouldnt shame innocent customers because united is bad at running it's own business. They tried to say she cancelled , so unacceptable . United lies to customers constantly , shame on them.
 
MR27122
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 3:00 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:46 am

B737900ER wrote:
MR27122 wrote:
Logic. How many times has anybody upon this website accidentally canceled their flight??? How many times has anybody upon this website accidentally canceled their flight after flying the first leg of a connection??? Speaking for myself, I'm "proudly" @ 0.00%. The pax in this instance, appears to know enough about FF programs to have gotten a first-class award flight to South/Central America.

If your flight is delayed UA will automatically send you a back up itinerary to your UA app. If you select accept these changes your original ticket gets CANCELLED. Yes CANCELLED, unbelievable I know, and you get rebooked on a new ticket. Your original seat gets put back into the inventory pool and if nobody buys it someone gets upgraded. According to the electronic record this is what happened. Logic. But since we aren’t playing logic the consensus is that UA has doctored the records to cover for a corrupt employee trying to gain favor with an inconsequential congresswoman. Are you guys hearing yourselves?

And she doesn’t know enough about FF benefits to avoid paying 140,000 miles to fly to Guatemala. That’s about they absolute worse use of miles.


Thank you B737900ER!!! This isn't even due to the "spirit of the season"----but your response was 5 Star & 5 Diamond!!! You plastered a smile upon my face w/ the 140K in FF miles to Guatemala being about as illogical a use possible!!!

I try to fly B6 outta Boston all the time. I avoid the legacies, but when I gotta fly 'em I do. The one thing I do not do----is use any app or pre-dep online check-in---I always engage a live person/airline employee & don't use "tech". I'm fortunate to have sufficient status to be able to access the most rapid queue.

What are the terms & conditions w/ regard to smart phones, laptops, etc. What if airline was pushing an update to you about a change in your seat, etc that needs to be "accepted"----yet your phone is dead? It's kinda treacherous----but cheaper for the airline---to be dependent upon tech to engage pax's. Thanks!!!
 
User avatar
APettyJ
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:17 am

B737900ER wrote:
UA did, but according to the article she refuses to believe it, as do most people on this site.

Members of Congress fly all the time. Her particular presence on the flight is really no big deal. Her, Ted Poe, and others fly this route weekly. To say that a random agent, or UA at large bumped her up to curry favor makes no sense. On the other hand if the passenger changed her flight, or accepted a flight change because of a delay that would actually prove logical. But where the drama in that?


Honestly, showing that the corporate system says it was "cancelled via app", which I had noticed, is not enough, nor has the detail I suggested be provided. Would it be wrong to release that level of detail, or say that they shared that level of detail with her, not that "our systems show you cancelled the flight in the app" without sharing proof? Or perhaps the reporter should ask if they shared that info with her. I've been in situations where it was suggested a particular system shows I did some action or cancelled some purchase. I'd always ask for the transactional details, and if they weren't provided the agent I was dealing with realized they had misinterpreted what they were reading from the system and I was compensated, or the details were given, which helped jog my memory and I could recall what I did. Saying "the computer says you did" isn't enough for me; give me the details.

Also, it may be common to have members of Congress on flights I'm sure some crew may be more inclined to go an extra step to accommodate one once becoming aware of one flying with them, and Rep. Jackson apparently frequents this route and may fly this flight numerous times. She was allowed to board first, even before regular pre-boarding, so she was shown preferential treatment even in a small way.
To be sure, after your detailed post I am inclined to believe the airline, nevermind not even caring that a congresswoman was the beneficiary of the seat bump but for her unfortunate pulling of the race card, but the lack of detail along with giving the $500 voucher makes me suspicious. Is it common to give a $500 voucher to someone who is responsible for losing their first class seat due to actions they took in the app? That seems like some type of compensation for a screwup on United's part with their system.
 
reltney
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:35 am

What is an F passenger? Been flying for the airlines 30 years, never heard this term. Is it a united term?
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4290
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:39 am

reltney wrote:
What is an F passenger? Been flying for the airlines 30 years, never heard this term. Is it a united term?

First Class passenger. It's a common industry term, because many airlines use the "F" fare bucket to denote a full fare first class ticket.
 
Indy
Posts: 4932
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:00 am

Not saying it is the case here, but before people get excited because someone showed a screenshot, let me tell you how easy it is to fake data for a screenshot. Thanks to some of the tools that come built in with browsers like Chrome, I can edit the content of a page that gets displayed. It will look just like the original website including URL and everything but I can change the content that gets displayed. Once I do that I can take a screenshot. You could carefully analyze the image and find no evidence it had been doctored. Of course not. The screenshot would be 100% legit. However the content that got captured would be bogus.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Bald1983
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:03 am

B737900ER wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Here goes another bad PR situation for United. Oscar Munoz needs to go,

Why?
Because somebody makes up a story the CEO need to be fired?
Is this where we are in society now?

Why? Since he has come on board, morale seems to be up, operations are improving, and the product is getting better. Company is making money. Sounds like he needs to stay.
 
ubeema
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:06 am

MR27122 wrote:
I try to fly B6 outta Boston all the time. I avoid the legacies, but when I gotta fly 'em I do. The one thing I do not do----is use any app or pre-dep online check-in---I always engage a live person/airline employee & don't use "tech". I'm fortunate to have sufficient status to be able to access the most rapid queue.

Most people do not have status though. Personally I think "tech" is one of the best thing that happened to airline industry (i.e: skip lines, instant flight notifications). I fly out of DFW and I generally show up at airport 45 mins or less before takeoff time because I do not need to stop by at kiosk + precheck. I also do not have FF status.

MR27122 wrote:
What are the terms & conditions w/ regard to smart phones, laptops, etc. What if airline was pushing an update to you about a change in your seat, etc that needs to be "accepted"----yet your phone is dead? It's kinda treacherous----but cheaper for the airline---to be dependent upon tech to engage pax's. Thanks!!!

Prior to security screening, the kiosk or an agent can update you on status changes. Your FF #, booking # (only 6 digits) or your credit card can help you check status at kiosk. After screening gate agents call out passengers with any changes.
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:58 am

Am I supposed to believe that a Harvard educated lawyer who lives in metro DC with roots in Texas doesn't know who Sheila Jackson-Lee is?

Smell test.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2961
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:34 pm

APettyJ wrote:

Honestly, showing that the corporate system says it was "cancelled via app", which I had noticed, is not enough, nor has the detail I suggested be provided. Would it be wrong to release that level of detail, or say that they shared that level of detail with her, not that "our systems show you cancelled the flight in the app" without sharing proof? Or perhaps the reporter should ask if they shared that info with her. I've been in situations where it was suggested a particular system shows I did some action or cancelled some purchase. I'd always ask for the transactional details, and if they weren't provided the agent I was dealing with realized they had misinterpreted what they were reading from the system and I was compensated, or the details were given, which helped jog my memory and I could recall what I did. Saying "the computer says you did" isn't enough for me; give me the details.

Also, it may be common to have members of Congress on flights I'm sure some crew may be more inclined to go an extra step to accommodate one once becoming aware of one flying with them, and Rep. Jackson apparently frequents this route and may fly this flight numerous times. She was allowed to board first, even before regular pre-boarding, so she was shown preferential treatment even in a small way.
To be sure, after your detailed post I am inclined to believe the airline, nevermind not even caring that a congresswoman was the beneficiary of the seat bump but for her unfortunate pulling of the race card, but the lack of detail along with giving the $500 voucher makes me suspicious. Is it common to give a $500 voucher to someone who is responsible for losing their first class seat due to actions they took in the app? That seems like some type of compensation for a screwup on United's part with their system.


She has the transactional details in the form of a confirmation email that all passengers receive when a change is made to their reservation even if its done on the app for same day travel UA automatically sends you the confirmation email. Also she would have received an alert informing her that her original boarding pass was no longer valid. As far as why UA will not release the history information, this is the way history is written on one of UA's servers (PNR000000 itinerary change 14501226PID03345 123456/MIL. The seat map would show 1A11B01C01D02A02B02C0 so on and so forth for the entire flight.) This is a condensed illustrative version (not the actual history for this flight we are not allowed to post actual history there is a lot of information in there that is security sensitive information). So if you don't know how to read history releasing all of this information will only confuse people For a narrow body flight there can be anywhere between 70-100 pages of history for wide bodies there can be close to a combined 250-300 pages of history.
The history shows the change was made by the passenger on the UA app history also shows the passenger confirmed the change. However UA has decided to apologize rather than blame the passenger and offered her a $500 dollar voucher for her mistake. Trying to explain how the passenger is to blame for this would only inflame this story so UA feels its better to just apologize and move on.
But is this really where we are as a society where a customer screws up then blames the service provided for their mistake and because of social media the service provider through no fault of their own has to apologize and then pay the customer for the customers own mistake just to keep from being blasted on social media cites and in the news? There have been situations where UA has clearly been at fault and social media rightfully held UA responsible this is not one of those times. But I feel like UA's image has been so damage over this past year that management feels like they have no choice but to capitulate anytime a customer complaint gets picked up by social media sites because social media in some regards does not care about facts or the truth. The DR. Dao situation as terrible as it was and UA was wrong it really showed UA the power of social media and I feel like UA still hasn't recovered from it but we are learning the lessons on how to respond when a situation blows up on social media.
It really comes down to is it really worth it to try to convince the world that the customer screwed up or would it be easier to apologize give here a voucher and move on? In this day and age it easier to just apologize give the voucher and move on. Next...
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6193
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:40 pm

jayunited wrote:
APettyJ wrote:

Honestly, showing that the corporate system says it was "cancelled via app", which I had noticed, is not enough, nor has the detail I suggested be provided. Would it be wrong to release that level of detail, or say that they shared that level of detail with her, not that "our systems show you cancelled the flight in the app" without sharing proof? Or perhaps the reporter should ask if they shared that info with her. I've been in situations where it was suggested a particular system shows I did some action or cancelled some purchase. I'd always ask for the transactional details, and if they weren't provided the agent I was dealing with realized they had misinterpreted what they were reading from the system and I was compensated, or the details were given, which helped jog my memory and I could recall what I did. Saying "the computer says you did" isn't enough for me; give me the details.

Also, it may be common to have members of Congress on flights I'm sure some crew may be more inclined to go an extra step to accommodate one once becoming aware of one flying with them, and Rep. Jackson apparently frequents this route and may fly this flight numerous times. She was allowed to board first, even before regular pre-boarding, so she was shown preferential treatment even in a small way.
To be sure, after your detailed post I am inclined to believe the airline, nevermind not even caring that a congresswoman was the beneficiary of the seat bump but for her unfortunate pulling of the race card, but the lack of detail along with giving the $500 voucher makes me suspicious. Is it common to give a $500 voucher to someone who is responsible for losing their first class seat due to actions they took in the app? That seems like some type of compensation for a screwup on United's part with their system.


She has the transactional details in the form of a confirmation email that all passengers receive when a change is made to their reservation even if its done on the app for same day travel UA automatically sends you the confirmation email. Also she would have received an alert informing her that her original boarding pass was no longer valid. As far as why UA will not release the history information, this is the way history is written on one of UA's servers (PNR000000 itinerary change 14501226PID03345 123456/MIL. The seat map would show 1A11B01C01D02A02B02C0 so on and so forth for the entire flight.) This is a condensed illustrative version (not the actual history for this flight we are not allowed to post actual history there is a lot of information in there that is security sensitive information). So if you don't know how to read history releasing all of this information will only confuse people For a narrow body flight there can be anywhere between 70-100 pages of history for wide bodies there can be close to a combined 250-300 pages of history.
The history shows the change was made by the passenger on the UA app history also shows the passenger confirmed the change. However UA has decided to apologize rather than blame the passenger and offered her a $500 dollar voucher for her mistake. Trying to explain how the passenger is to blame for this would only inflame this story so UA feels its better to just apologize and move on.
But is this really where we are as a society where a customer screws up then blames the service provided for their mistake and because of social media the service provider through no fault of their own has to apologize and then pay the customer for the customers own mistake just to keep from being blasted on social media cites and in the news? There have been situations where UA has clearly been at fault and social media rightfully held UA responsible this is not one of those times. But I feel like UA's image has been so damage over this past year that management feels like they have no choice but to capitulate anytime a customer complaint gets picked up by social media sites because social media in some regards does not care about facts or the truth. The DR. Dao situation as terrible as it was and UA was wrong it really showed UA the power of social media and I feel like UA still hasn't recovered from it but we are learning the lessons on how to respond when a situation blows up on social media.


This 100%! UA is in a situation where literally anyone can claim anything, throw it on social media, news outlets will pick it up, and UA is forced to capitulate.

Social media has its positives but it also has its negatives too. Without Social Media, there would be no President Trump, there would be no Dr. Dao, there would be no Arab Spring, there would be no Tila Tequilla, etc. We have passed a point where there is no return.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
exFWAOONW
Posts: 733
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:43 pm

There seems to be an (over)reliance on smartphone notifications. I have often received voice-mails the next day. My wife will show me here phone where a text didn't come through while my phone says delivered. Maybe UA did everything by the book. Maybe the pax didn't receive one of the notifications (in a timely manner to be of use). Maybe the congresswoman hinted she would make a scene if she didn't get the upgrade. Bottom line: The pax didn't get a first-class seat as originally booked. UA paid compensation. That should be the end of the story. However social media makes demons out of thin air most of the time.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
SATexan
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:08 pm

Quick question: If the passenger made a change on her phone app, then why didn't the gate agent tell her to pull up her phone app just to verify if indeed a change was made and that it accurately reflected what the agent was seeing? May be, if the passenger's app showed that the flight was changed by herself, she wouldn't be throwing a fit?
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2677
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:23 pm

SATexan wrote:
Quick question: If the passenger made a change on her phone app, then why didn't the gate agent tell her to pull up her phone app just to verify if indeed a change was made and that it accurately reflected what the agent was seeing? May be, if the passenger's app showed that the flight was changed by herself, she wouldn't be throwing a fit?

Did the agent have access to the history or even know the passenger had made a change with the app?

The agent likely had no clue what had happened. A passenger showed up claiming to have a reservation for a first class seat when all were occupied. When the passenger produced a PNR from the original booking, the computer system showed it was cancelled. I don’t know if SHARES gives agents the access to details like how or when the original booking was cancelled.

Based on what’s come out, I have a hard time blaming UA at all, and I think they tried their best to make the passenger happy with a goodwill gesture. Some people just can’t be made to be happy, especially if they have already decided to be offended and indignant.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos