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Jetty
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:24 pm

Wouldn't United have send an e-mail confirmation if the woman changed the flight herself? And if so, then why provide an unverifiable log of their system instead of a copy of the e-mail send?
 
flyguy84
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:47 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
This story is nonsense. Passenger was downgraded and immediately compensated with a 500 dollar voucher. There is no problem here or failure. This is a case of an individual trying to take advantage of the situation.


Wow you are so biased. This women booked a first class seat and deserves one. United offered a first class seat and she paid alot f miles for that seat. If united didn't want to do offer this, they should have sold it. It's totally united fault. This customer did nothing wrong, flyertalk shouldnt shame innocent customers because united is bad at running it's own business. They tried to say she cancelled , so unacceptable . United lies to customers constantly , shame on them.

The only bias here is you. If she hadn’t elected to make any changes to her reservation, in error or not, her seat never would have become available for re-assignment. She made an error, and now wants to blame United for giving away the seat she gave up. Ridiculous.
SFO
 
SATexan
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:47 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
SATexan wrote:
Quick question: If the passenger made a change on her phone app, then why didn't the gate agent tell her to pull up her phone app just to verify if indeed a change was made and that it accurately reflected what the agent was seeing?


A passenger showed up claiming to have a reservation for a first class seat when all were occupied. When the passenger produced a PNR from the original booking, the computer system showed it was cancelled. I don’t know if SHARES gives agents the access to details like how or when the original booking was cancelled.


The passenger showed up with a "Boarding Pass" issued when she checked-in at Guatemala. Also, the article references the agent as saying that the passenger "may" have changed the reservation through the app. If there was a suspicion then why not just ask the passenger to pull up the app and see what is going on.

To me, it appears that no one on the scene adopted a common sense approach. May be I am wrong, but Isn't a few minutes of aircraft delay to sort out this issue better than dealing with a PR nightmare.
 
flyguy84
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:30 pm

SATexan wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
SATexan wrote:
Quick question: If the passenger made a change on her phone app, then why didn't the gate agent tell her to pull up her phone app just to verify if indeed a change was made and that it accurately reflected what the agent was seeing?


A passenger showed up claiming to have a reservation for a first class seat when all were occupied. When the passenger produced a PNR from the original booking, the computer system showed it was cancelled. I don’t know if SHARES gives agents the access to details like how or when the original booking was cancelled.


The passenger showed up with a "Boarding Pass" issued when she checked-in at Guatemala. Also, the article references the agent as saying that the passenger "may" have changed the reservation through the app. If there was a suspicion then why not just ask the passenger to pull up the app and see what is going on.

To me, it appears that no one on the scene adopted a common sense approach. May be I am wrong, but Isn't a few minutes of aircraft delay to sort out this issue better than dealing with a PR nightmare.

This isn’t a nightmare. This is much ado about nothing. She was compensated immediately for being re-assigned an economy plus seat. This is all about trying to demonize Sheila Jackson-Lee and politicians in general.
SFO
 
B737900ER
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:31 pm

Jetty wrote:
Wouldn't United have send an e-mail confirmation if the woman changed the flight herself? And if so, then why provide an unverifiable log of their system instead of a copy of the e-mail send?

What would UA have to do to verify their systems? Every time a customer makes a mistake do they have to provide an independent forensic software engineer to prove their system which handles literally millions of reservations per year isn’t lying?

It amazes me that UA provides the most solid evidence of what happened and people dismiss that, and would rather believe a days old account of a conversation between a lawyer and a politician
 
SATexan
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:17 pm

If anyone has a link where UA has given "solid evidence of what happened" kindly post the same. Outside of this thread, all I see elsewhere is that United apologized to the passenger. Besides, I have a very hard time believing that a reservation which has been partially fulfilled can be cancelled by a customer and the customer service computers did not accurately reflect what happened. Also, if indeed Ms. Simon change her reservation, did she select an alternate flight or simply cancelled IAH-DCA? I don't have the United app, but is it even possible to simply cancel a flight without selecting any alternate options?

If this is not an issue as most of you believe, why then wouldn't UA pushback, hammer and tongs??
 
United1
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:44 pm

SATexan wrote:
If anyone has a link where UA has given "solid evidence of what happened" kindly post the same. Outside of this thread, all I see elsewhere is that United apologized to the passenger.

If this is not an issue as most of you believe, why then wouldn't UA pushback, hammer and tongs??


"After thoroughly examining our electronic records, we found that upon receiving a notification that Flight 788 was delayed due to weather, the customer appears to have canceled her flight from Houston to Washington, DC within the United mobile app,' United said in a statement." I'm not sure what more proof you want from UA...all you have from the lawer is her word as well and you seem to be willing to take her at face value. The fact UA put out a statement saying this was due to her actions not ours is about as hard as any company is going to push back publicly.
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piedmontf284000
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:14 pm

Now the race card comes into play. Seems the congresswoman realizes that she is in a bit of a pickle for accepting the 1st class seat to begin with and not paying for it. Some are calling for an congressional ethics investigation. Hearing that, the congresswoman has decided to make herself the victim in all of this mess.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/26/congressw ... -card/amp/
 
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Tugger
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:17 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Now the race card comes into play. Seems the congresswoman realizes that she is in a bit of a pickle for accepting the 1st class seat to begin with and not paying for it. Some are calling for an congressional ethics investigation. Hearing that, the congresswoman has decided to make herself the victim in all of this mess.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/26/congressw ... -card/amp/

What is wrong with her using upgrades for First Class? And where in the article is she blaming the fact that she is black for this?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
BC77008
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:23 pm

So many thins going on here, but let me be the first to state that as SJL’s constituent, I do not appreciate her playing the race card nor am I amused by it and nor do I think it is very clever or shrewd on her part.

Secondly, it seems this woman likely changed her reservation to another flight that wasn’t delayed and thus, gave up her seat on her original flight. She later wanted to take her original flight but her seat was already given to the congresswoman as per their MileagePlus guidelines on upgrades into domestic first class.

United promised as part of the David Dao fiasco that they would never again ask a boarded customer to give up his or her seat. So how could they do that to Congresswoman Sheila Jackson-Lee? Of all people?

The woman got a $500 credit voucher for flying one relatively short segment of her flights in EconomyPlus. United did not have to do this, but I’m sure they saw what a catch 22 position they were in and decided to try to get in front of the situation. I give them credit for that.
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Jetty
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:49 pm

Tugger wrote:
And where in the article is she blaming the fact that she is black for this?

From that article:

“Since this was not any fault of mine, the way the individual continued to act appeared to be, upon reflection, because I was an African American woman, seemingly an easy target along with the African American flight attendant who was very, very nice,”
 
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Tugger
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:51 pm

Jetty wrote:
Tugger wrote:
And where in the article is she blaming the fact that she is black for this?

From that article:

“Since this was not any fault of mine, the way the individual continued to act appeared to be, upon reflection, because I was an African American woman, seemingly an easy target along with the African American flight attendant who was very, very nice,”

Ahh... That is pretty stupid of her because this really appears to be a non-issue regarding her directly.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:06 pm

My Mom worked in Ozark Air Lines reservations for years. During a slow period they put her on "clean up" duty looking for multiple bookings under the same name. She came across Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) in the early 80's and cancelled all but one of his reservations. He put up such a stink at the airport that the Station Manager practically had to bow and scrape and perform oral pleasure to get him calmed down. The Station MGR called my Mother and essentially told her that she did her job well, but if you ever see someone out of Washginton DC with multiples don't touch the reservation that he would take care of it. In other words, they're (Congresspeople) a bunch of self-important Prima Donnas. She has many other stories about the Politicos from DC.
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glfblz59
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:32 pm

Well, I worked the gates at ORD for several years. And, a "local" Rep in the House, Roman Pulanski always took the 2200
Electra flight from ORD to DCA. Always requested getting the 1st seat in Y/C, and would "sneak up" into F/C. After I found
out about what he was doing, I'd assign him a seat in row 15. He was SO mad, but, I had already advised F/A's to NOT allow it.
And, when he did "sneak' up, he'd order booze-on-the-house. Surprise, Surprise!?!?!?!?!

Gotta go - Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year
 
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Aesma
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:43 pm

BC77008 wrote:
The woman got a $500 credit voucher for flying one relatively short segment of her flights in EconomyPlus. United did not have to do this, but I’m sure they saw what a catch 22 position they were in and decided to try to get in front of the situation. I give them credit for that.


Thanks for confirming what I thought, they didn't owe her anything but still gave her something nice. And this is how they're thanked...
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APettyJ
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:46 am

United1 wrote:
SATexan wrote:
If anyone has a link where UA has given "solid evidence of what happened" kindly post the same. Outside of this thread, all I see elsewhere is that United apologized to the passenger.

If this is not an issue as most of you believe, why then wouldn't UA pushback, hammer and tongs??


"After thoroughly examining our electronic records, we found that upon receiving a notification that Flight 788 was delayed due to weather, the customer appears to have canceled her flight from Houston to Washington, DC within the United mobile app,' United said in a statement." I'm not sure what more proof you want from UA...all you have from the lawer is her word as well and you seem to be willing to take her at face value. The fact UA put out a statement saying this was due to her actions not ours is about as hard as any company is going to push back publicly.


Would it be wrong on United's part to release a screenshot of the transactional confirmation page detailing date, time, confirmation number etc? Customer "appears" reads to me "perhaps, but perhaps not"; "could have, but could have not". It opens the possibility that no, she may NOT have cancelled thru app. I hate nit-picking at words, but can United afford to leave doubt like that?

Then again, not everyone is asking that question, and maybe that's a good thing. As I said, I am inclined to be sympathetic to United, ever since the first big scandal surrounding the leggings which they did nothing wrong and an outside party to the situation caused a huge PR disaster. One thing I appreciated about United's case was the rules are involved were made available to the public to see, which turned the issue to something more societal concerning the appropriateness of stretchy pants on public. Black and White rule I could see.
When Ms. Simon made her change she was sent some type of confirmation. I too wonder why the agent just didn't have her pull up the app and show her on her device, or in her email. Admittedly though, perhaps that is going too far, but it is unfortunate the company swallows the bad PR if there is something available to them to squash it.
 
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antoniemey
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:05 am

APettyJ wrote:
Would it be wrong on United's part to release a screenshot of the transactional confirmation page detailing date, time, confirmation number etc? Customer "appears" reads to me "perhaps, but perhaps not"; "could have, but could have not". It opens the possibility that no, she may NOT have cancelled thru app. I hate nit-picking at words, but can United afford to leave doubt like that?


They would only release something like that with the passenger's explicit consent. And 99% of the population wouldn't be able to read it. I can barely read it and I've worked with UA's reservation system for over 4 years.

As far as "Customer appears" that's pretty much agent speak for "Someone did this through the app, but since it was through the app we can't confirm who it was, just that they had the information to be in that passenger's record."

Trust me, as someone who's had to deal with passengers both knowingly and unknowingly bumping themselves, it DOES happen all the time. I've also had someone screaming at me that they had to be on my (oversold) flight as I'm boarding it, claiming that the app showed availability. In one case the passenger went so far as to purchase the ticket... only to find that it was for the same day the next week.

If I have an open F seat at boarding start, I'm upgrading the first eligible passenger. I'm not going to waste time looking to see who might have "accidentally" changed flights. And if I DID improperly unseat someone in favor of someone else, you can bet the PR department would say "An agent made an error" not "Passenger appears to have rebooked through the app." And then I would be disciplined, if not removed from my position.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
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Aesma
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:39 am

Basically the customer is saying there's a conspiracy, and people who like conspiracies believe her. Everyone knows (or should know) that you can't convince these people with proof. They'll just say it's part of the conspiracy.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:49 am

According the customer's Twitter account, they have now refunded the frequent flyer miles she used.
 
aviationaware
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:02 am

Aesma wrote:
Basically the customer is saying there's a conspiracy, and people who like conspiracies believe her. Everyone knows (or should know) that you can't convince these people with proof. They'll just say it's part of the conspiracy.


The only thing that comes close to proof here is the reputation Miss Jackson Lee has for being a self-important blight. Everything else is the passenger's word against SJL's or United's. Given the fact that SJL has a history of abusing her position to bully airlines into compliance with her sense of entitlement (and the fact that it's her favorite past-time to play the race card), I think anyone choosing to believe her or United over the passenger is a hopeless case of credulity.

This article here is 15 years old, that should say it all:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/sheila-jackson-lee-limousine-liberal/article/2162
 
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CALTECH
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:51 am

aviationaware wrote:
[I think anyone choosing to believe her or United over the passenger is a hopeless case of credulity.

This article here is 15 years old, that should say it all:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/sheila-jackson-lee-limousine-liberal/article/2162


Anyone choosing to believe the passenger with the evidence provided is ignorance of the highest level.
You are here.
 
Bald1983
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:22 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
SATexan wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:

A passenger showed up claiming to have a reservation for a first class seat when all were occupied. When the passenger produced a PNR from the original booking, the computer system showed it was cancelled. I don’t know if SHARES gives agents the access to details like how or when the original booking was cancelled.


The passenger showed up with a "Boarding Pass" issued when she checked-in at Guatemala. Also, the article references the agent as saying that the passenger "may" have changed the reservation through the app. If there was a suspicion then why not just ask the passenger to pull up the app and see what is going on.

To me, it appears that no one on the scene adopted a common sense approach. May be I am wrong, but Isn't a few minutes of aircraft delay to sort out this issue better than dealing with a PR nightmare.

This isn’t a nightmare. This is much ado about nothing. She was compensated immediately for being re-assigned an economy plus seat. This is all about trying to demonize Sheila Jackson-Lee and politicians in general.


Sheila Jackson Lee demonized herself by playing the race card. Had she been gracious, saying that she was unaware of the mix up, she could have come out ahead. But gracious, and Sheila Jackson Lee have nothing in common with each other.
 
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RWA380
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:41 pm

The history of a PNR would clean this right up for good. It will tell you what exact time the change took place, if any & it will tell you if UA did it & what station or reservation center, it will give you the booking agents ID & history has saved my ass a few times. It's easy to obtain & has everything one needs to solve this situation, give me the hard copy & I can read it.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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reltney
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:04 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
reltney wrote:
What is an F passenger? Been flying for the airlines 30 years, never heard this term. Is it a united term?

First Class passenger. It's a common industry term, because many airlines use the "F" fare bucket to denote a full fare first class ticket.




Thanks. I need a glossary of terms. The language is so different on either side of the cockpit door.

Cheers!
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OUTLAW KNIVES.

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B737900ER
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:22 pm

aviationaware wrote:

The only thing that comes close to proof here is the reputation Miss Jackson Lee has for being a self-important blight.

My original reply to this post was deleted. So I’ll say it again. There is actual physical evidence of what happened.

Mods, if you’re going to censor this site at least give a reason as to why you delete posts. You allow misinformation and trolls to run rampant but delete factual posts. Why?
 
aviationaware
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:52 pm

There is no evidence that proves the passenger cancelled. Period. All there is is evidence that SOMEONE cancelled. That could have been a United staffer who was intimidated by SJL for all we know, it wouldn’t be the first time. Who knows how many times SJL has pulled this stunt before and just been lucky not to run into someone who fights back publicly?
 
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Aesma
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:17 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
Sheila Jackson Lee demonized herself by playing the race card. Had she been gracious, saying that she was unaware of the mix up, she could have come out ahead. But gracious, and Sheila Jackson Lee have nothing in common with each other.


From what we know of the story, Mrs Jackson Lee was in her seat when a political opponent of hers told a passenger that she had stolen her seat, something she hadn't done. Then that passenger came up to her and took a picture of her in her seat. In what way should she have acted in this situation ?
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kgaiflyer
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:20 pm

All kinds of ways this works.

I've sat with congressmen - who paid big-bucks at the counter on the day of flight - to sit in the only vacant seat (a middle seat) on LAX-IAD. I've flown with Nancy Pelosi's entourage SFO-LAX in which the group took up half the F seats.

My favorite was years ago when I was Northwest Airlines Platinum. Ted Stevens and his crew busted just about everyone out of first class DCA-MSP, and we lost our upgrades.

Little known fact. High-mileage elites eat and drink free or for very low cost when they get busted. Last time (last Monday) the purser leaned over while picking up trash in the back and whispered if she could sneak me anything out of first class. When I'm no longer a 1-K I'll miss the attention. :)
 
Jetty
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:31 pm

Aesma wrote:
In what way should she have acted in this situation ?

She should have acted according to her own debut speech.

"They want to know that the days of free meals and free trips and special privileges are over. . . . As Members of Congress, we should not be using public office for private gain."

Note that by entering the plane before everyone else she already ignored her own words about special privileges. That's what causes suspicion that she was given other special privileges as well, i.e. cancelling the seat of someone else for her benefit and to avoid her wrath.
 
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enilria
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:04 pm

I have definitely seen cases where politicians were bumped to the top of the upgrade list. I've also seen cases where they were refused. DCA-CMH I saw John Kasich refuse an upgrade and I ended up sitting next to him.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:21 am

The Points Guy says it has seen information (but can't share a visual because it contains information proprietary to UA) showing that the woman either purposely or accidentally canceled her flight. https://thepointsguy.com/2017/12/united ... ed-flight/

As it was, the plane was delayed anyhow because of weather, departing 2 hours late. This should put an end to the saga...and also serve as a teachable moment.
 
aviationaware
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:05 am

Anyone who has ever cancelld a flight through the United app knows the passenger is telling the truth and United is doubling down on a lie to cover a corrupt politician - this TPG stunt doesn’t add to the stories credibility but takes it away entirely.
 
mcdu
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:20 am

aviationaware wrote:
Anyone who has ever cancelld a flight through the United app knows the passenger is telling the truth and United is doubling down on a lie to cover a corrupt politician - this TPG stunt doesn’t add to the stories credibility but takes it away entirely.


Actually have you ever had a delayed flight with an option to change when using the UA app? You are actually the one not telling the truth because you DON’T know for sure if she canceled or not but UA has put for the audit trail to confirm the lady made the change. So until you can refute that with fact you are just spinning falsehoods as you don’t have the truth.

I have used the UA app when a flight was delayed and canceled and it gives you the option to change flights. Even when there are no disruptions the option to change flights is available. Perhaps you were using an old version of the app to make your claim but in actual use of the the app I don’t think you are correct and are therefore lying about the great coverup.
 
aviationaware
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:28 am

They didn’t say she switched flights, they said she cancelled. Not only does that not make any sense in the middle of your journey, it’s not even possible to cancel following legs once the first leg has been flown. It makes me rather angry to see how many people chose to believe United’s cock and bull story because of political affiliation to that horrible woman, Sheila Jackson Lee.
 
alasizon
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:35 am

aviationaware wrote:
They didn’t say she switched flights, they said she cancelled. Not only does that not make any sense in the middle of your journey, it’s not even possible to cancel following legs once the first leg has been flown. It makes me rather angry to see how many people chose to believe United’s cock and bull story because of political affiliation to that horrible woman, Sheila Jackson Lee.


Technically, if she changed from one flight to another, she did cancel. She canceled her original segment and rebooked onto a different segment. The concept of cancel and rebook is normal in the airline industry.
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n7371f
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:55 am

Continental threatened to ban this Congresswoman many years ago for her berating behavior toward employees. End of story.
 
Jetty
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Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:49 pm

alasizon wrote:
She canceled her original segment and rebooked onto a different segment.

You're making this up as both the passenger and UA gave a detailed account of what happened and didn't mention another booking onto a different segment once.

That's also the problem with UA's story; this woman cancelling the second leg of her trip makes no sense at all. On the other side UA cancelling her ticket to please Sheila Jackson Lee makes a lot of sense knowing UA and the Congresswoman.

- SJL has a documented history of unreasonable behavior, demanding favorable treatment, and appears on the list of the “Best and Worst of Congress” as the “meanest” member of the House of Representatives according to the Huffington Post;
- United has a history of unreasonably bumping passengers and removing passengers with a valid ticket to seat people without a valid ticket, even by force;
- SJL did in fact get special privileges from UA staff at the gate as she was allowed to board before everyone else.

Yet some people choose to believe unverifiable claims from UA over this passenger that had no reason to cancel her own ticket whatsoever. :shakehead:
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:27 pm

There aren’t enough facts available here for anyone to “know” what happened, short of the PNR history. This whole thread seems to be mostly people interpreting the “facts” to confirm whatever bias they may have about UA, passengers, or the congresswoman.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
jayunited
Posts: 2961
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:28 pm

Jetty wrote:
You're making this up as both the passenger and UA gave a detailed account of what happened and didn't mention another booking onto a different segment once.

That's also the problem with UA's story; this woman cancelling the second leg of her trip makes no sense at all. On the other side UA cancelling her ticket to please Sheila Jackson Lee makes a lot of sense knowing UA and the Congresswoman.

- SJL has a documented history of unreasonable behavior, demanding favorable treatment, and appears on the list of the “Best and Worst of Congress” as the “meanest” member of the House of Representatives according to the Huffington Post;
- United has a history of unreasonably bumping passengers and removing passengers with a valid ticket to seat people without a valid ticket, even by force;
- SJL did in fact get special privileges from UA staff at the gate as she was allowed to board before everyone else.

Yet some people choose to believe unverifiable claims from UA over this passenger that had no reason to cancel her own ticket whatsoever. :shakehead:


United can't release the information you want to the public first of all it contains security sensitive information secondly releasing the emails personal emails that were sent to this passenger would be a breach as well. Employees like myself can not post SHARES or UNIMATIC history on a site like this and even if we could 99% of the people on this site would be able to decipher it. I've already given you a small example of what history looks likes in UNIMATIC in a earlier post. This passenger posted only part of the story because if she would have told the complete truth whether it was a mistake or whether she intended to change her flight she did do it. Then decided to come back to her original flight when second flight was delayed for weather, if she would have released that information it wouldn't be a story. So while people are quick to say UA did something wrong because they won't release the proof, or did a favor for this congresswoman it's not true. Any person with the UA app knows the app updates in real time. The moment there is a seat available you can see it in real time on the app. The upgrade list and standby list update in real time if this congresswoman wasn't next on the upgrade list the person who was next would be upset as well. People who are in line for a upgrade are always checking the app even after they board checking to see if there are any no shows in first class. This congresswoman didn't jump the line she was the next person on the upgrade list and this passenger did change her flight using through UA's app.
UA is in an impossible no win situation, they can't release the personal private emails without the consent of the passenger (and I'm guessing UA will never get that consent because it would make their case) secondly they can't release company information for security reasons. I have no problem with lawyers but in this case this passenger did not tell the complete truth and unfortunately for UA their hands are tied they can not release the information you requested without violating this passengers personal privacy or revealing security information to the public. Also this passenger is a lawyer if UA was wrong why hasn't the lawyer filed a lawsuit?
 
Jetty
Posts: 1305
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:54 pm

tlecam wrote:
There aren’t enough facts available here for anyone to “know” what happened, short of the PNR history. This whole thread seems to be mostly people interpreting the “facts” to confirm whatever bias they may have about UA, passengers, or the congresswoman.

The accounts of UA and the passenger align but for the reason her ticket was cancelled. So apart from that we "know" what happened.

jayunited wrote:
United can't release the information you want to the public first of all it contains security sensitive information secondly releasing the emails personal emails that were sent to this passenger would be a breach as well. Employees like myself can not post SHARES or UNIMATIC history on a site like this and even if we could 99% of the people on this site would be able to decipher it. I've already given you a small example of what history looks likes in UNIMATIC in a earlier post. This passenger posted only part of the story because if she would have told the complete truth whether it was a mistake or whether she intended to change her flight she did do it. Then decided to come back to her original flight when second flight was delayed for weather, if she would have released that information it wouldn't be a story.
UA is in an impossible no win situation, they can't release the personal private emails without the consent of the passenger (and I'm guessing UA will never get that consent because it would make their case) secondly they can't release company information for security reasons.

If UA feels it can't respond appropriately because of the passengers privacy then they should have asked the passenger for consent, and if that'd have been refused just mentioning the refusal would make UA's case. If she changed her flight as you and others suggest, why wouldn't UA be able to mention that if they are OK with mentioning she cancelled her flight? The passenger changing her flight would be a lot more plausible than a frequent flyer cancelling a 2nd leg with no alternative.
 
Bald1983
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:23 pm

Aesma wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
Sheila Jackson Lee demonized herself by playing the race card. Had she been gracious, saying that she was unaware of the mix up, she could have come out ahead. But gracious, and Sheila Jackson Lee have nothing in common with each other.


From what we know of the story, Mrs Jackson Lee was in her seat when a political opponent of hers told a passenger that she had stolen her seat, something she hadn't done. Then that passenger came up to her and took a picture of her in her seat. In what way should she have acted in this situation ?


Easy, state that she was unaware of any mix up and she should not have played the race card. That way, she could have risen above it. However, Jackson Lee rises above nothing.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:33 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The Points Guy says it has seen information (but can't share a visual because it contains information proprietary to UA) showing that the woman either purposely or accidentally canceled her flight. https://thepointsguy.com/2017/12/united ... ed-flight/

As it was, the plane was delayed anyhow because of weather, departing 2 hours late. This should put an end to the saga...and also serve as a teachable moment.


It would also be interesting to look at the congresswoman's PNR. What is her status level? Was her placement in that seat routine, or was it special? If special, what else happened? Was it a must ride? Was it a positive space booking above the status of a revenue passenger booking? I am not sure UA has clarified that.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8413
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:33 pm

jayunited wrote:
...
United can't release the information you want to the public first of all it contains security sensitive information secondly releasing the emails personal emails that were sent to this passenger would be a breach as well. Employees like myself can not post SHARES or UNIMATIC history on a site like this and even if we could 99% of the people on this site would be able to decipher it....


Yet, the same information was conveniently leaked to an aviation blogger? In case of Dr.Dao lot of fabricated information was distributed by authorized personnel to save the airline. Why should public trust now?
All posts are just opinions.
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:57 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
SATexan wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
This is all about trying to demonize Sheila Jackson-Lee and politicians in general.


I mean, hasn't Sheila Jackson Lee done a pretty good job of that herself? This is the congresswoman who told a Capitol Police officer, "I am a queen, and I expect to be treated like a queen."
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8559
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:32 pm

aviationaware wrote:
They didn’t say she switched flights, they said she cancelled. Not only does that not make any sense in the middle of your journey, it’s not even possible to cancel following legs once the first leg has been flown. It makes me rather angry to see how many people chose to believe United’s cock and bull story because of political affiliation to that horrible woman, Sheila Jackson Lee.

What this post screams is "I believe the passenger because I hate SJL and United as well" which shows how biased you already are with the story. UA can come out with hard evidence pointing to the passenger being wrong and you'd still blame UA for something.

When you manually (as in, when you request it) switch flights, your original reservation is canceled. I've had it happen to me where a new reservation is made with a new confirmation code and everything. The second leg of the journey is no more; it is instead its own reservation

Now, as far as who made the change, I have no idea. However, I wouldn't be surprised if a prankster or someone got ahold of the reservation through social media. I can't tell you the number of times people post pictures of their boarding pass with the confirmation code and PII. UA would not be liable if that were the case.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
SATexan
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
United can't release the information you want to the public first of all it contains security sensitive information secondly releasing the emails personal emails that were sent to this passenger would be a breach as well.

Yet you can conveniently release it to a tom, dick and TPG !!!

aviationaware wrote:
They didn’t say she switched flights, they said she cancelled. Not only does that not make any sense in the middle of your journey, it’s not even possible to cancel following legs once the first leg has been flown.

Exactly!! I had asked the same question earlier! How is it possible to cancel a reservation in the middle of a trip? If an alternate flight WAS selected by Ms Simon why isn't UA ATLEAST giving that piece of information.

Also, if indeed this app allows users to cancel reservations in the middle of a trip then United will likely have major headaches. Imagine some going IAD-FRA-BLR on UA/LH and upon reaching FRA "accidentally" or "intentionally" cancelling the reservation through the app and then showing up at the gate for the LH flight with the boarding pass issued by UA. I really don't think that UA has such poor software/systems in place.

Again, I have no gripe against UA. If they are indeed right they need to be more forthcoming and stop being defensive. Ms Simon not only got her 140K miles back, she also scored a voucher and an apology even though according to some people UA was not at fault. Beat that!!
 
Jetty
Posts: 1305
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:50 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
When you manually (as in, when you request it) switch flights, your original reservation is canceled. I've had it happen to me where a new reservation is made with a new confirmation code and everything. The second leg of the journey is no more; it is instead its own reservation

Why do you assume a switch happened? This keeps being mentioned itt, but has no factual basis. Both UA and the passenger agree the reservation was outright canceled while not mentioning anything about a switch.
 
Aptivaboy
Topic Author
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:08 pm

- SJL did in fact get special privileges from UA staff at the gate as she was allowed to board before everyone else.


That's what I don't understand and as the thread starter the main reason that I tend to not believe UAL. If SJL did indeed board first, before the disabled, uniformed military, and the other usual preboard categories, then that simply looks fishy. It looks like she was receiving special treatment; whether she actually was or wasn't the optics of that are terrible. And, United hasn't officially denied that it boarded SJL first, which is, well, interesting. Just how did someone on the upgrade list get on the plane first before literally everyone else?

Also, whenever I've used the United app (its on my phone as I type!) I've received text or email updates or confirmations for whatever changes I've done, and pretty promptly, too. UAL is actually really good about that. If the passenger did cancel her reservation, then why didn't she received a confirmation?

I'll not deny that the passenger could have massively screwed up. I'm about as talented with electronics as a teenager is with a set of car keys, for example. But, taken in total this just doesn't sound right to me. Too much is - odd.
 
ual763
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:24 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
- SJL did in fact get special privileges from UA staff at the gate as she was allowed to board before everyone else.


Just how did someone on the upgrade list get on the plane first before literally everyone else?


Because she is a Global Service Member.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: UA accused of bumping F passenger for congresswoman

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:24 pm

Flighty wrote:

I actually found Jackson -Lee's narration humorous and admirably restrained while also being coldly dismissive of the "disruptive passenger." It was ice cold.


She accused Ms Simon of racism, which is probably the lowest route she could have chosen. That’s admirably restrained by you? Ms Simon is a lifelong registered Democrat by the way, so anyone accusing her of a political hit attempt is way off.

einsteinboricua wrote:

Now, as far as who made the change, I have no idea. However, I wouldn't be surprised if a prankster or someone got ahold of the reservation through social media. I can't tell you the number of times people post pictures of their boarding pass with the confirmation code and PII. UA would not be liable if that were the case.


So you are basically accusing me of politicizing this when Sheila Jackson Lee has a reputation for stuff like this (understatement of the year), but think it more likely that some prankster cancelled the flight? Wow, I wonder who is really blinded by his politics here. Hint: it isn’t me.

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