c933103
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:40 pm

george77300 wrote:
To those mentioning the CS100 could do it without stopping, so could the A318 range wise in their light configuration. The reason it can’t is the A318 at MTOW needs more runway than LCY has and thus needs a fuel stop.

iirc CS100 could do so with that runway
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VC10er
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:37 pm

When I used to do JFK/LHR every 4-6 weeks for 10 years (I stopped 3 years ago) prestige, as in “luxury” doesn’t matter at all. However, convenient and comfortable travel does. Yes, your company or client is paying many thousands of dollars or pounds for that ticket and for that the heavy business flier requires a decent meal option before boarding or express meal on board. A VERY comfortable seat/bed and sometimes arrival showers and breakfast. The flight from NYC to London over night is simply too short, and combined with jet lag and time change, it makes same day meetings (especially for people my age) to function in top form.
As a UA flier, I do prefer EWR over JFK, and while their 767s have subpar J, when the new 787K, with Polaris (and lower cabin pressure etc) are plowing that route it will be plenty of “prestige or luxury” in both directions. It’s a fabulous bed and UA can’t get them up and running on that route fast enough! (And a true Polaris Lounge)
Wouldn’t it be odd if United became better known for a better experience than BA?????
I assume AA and DL are already there from what I’ve read and heard. My, my, never thought I’d live to see the day when a US airline is preferred over BA? Even with British friends who prefer AA!
Also, for Economy, if price conscious fliers have 3 choices in Y (basic, regular and E+) it would seem the airlines have figured out something for everyone- and if BA First Class is good enough for Beyoncé- then its good enough for me! I simply cannot afford it.
I’ve had the good fortune to have flown BA in F about 10 years ago. It was amazing and I sat next to Yoko Ono. I didn’t talk to her but I sure as hell wanted to :-)
And, wasn’t poor Carrie Fisher aboard a United flight when she so tragically died? So, I presume the super rich fly UA too!
Last thought: wouldn’t Beyoncé and Jay-Z have a Private Jet?
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747-600X
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:45 pm

I mean, given that New York doesn't have any airports that aren't an embarrassment to the entire country...
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:16 pm

JFK does not have a nighttime curfew
 
Nickd92
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:17 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
A dear friend who couldn’t care less about what we all love, but is wealthy and only flies paid business. He lives in Miami and was excited (relatively) to take the BA A380. He flew AA 777-300ER back.
He said he was shocked at how underwhelming BA was, so old and dowdy, even more shocked how much better AA was, all around.
I haven’t flown either BA or AA in years, but used to go almost monthly. Yes, it’s a slog for some who work for Anglo/American companies. But there is room for “some” prestige, at least on the longer LHR to JFK (east coast) when you are mostly awake and can enjoy it.
Ive had some truly lovely return flights to the USA.


He is not the only one, a friend of mine who owns a finance company in London has switched over to AA and CX from BA, as he explained it to me, if his company is going o spend £50k a DAY with BA they need to step up their game......


Considering BA/AA have a JV across the Atlantic i don't think either really care who you are flying with as the profits are shared. So BA's loss is still BA's win in the Atlantic front.
 
ilyagran
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:23 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Anyways, my take, BA needs to go all aisle access, the food from what I have seen in trip reports with the new menus looks good. But with a couple of exceptions, it's the seats that kill BA for those that care.


I'm not quite sure why people of this forum are bashing BA CW product so much.
It was revolutionary, when originally introduced back in 2000.
Today, while not the best out there, I find it on par with the competition, particularly UA and AA.

Having tried all three, BA seat didn't seem worse than others.
I find the bed pretty comfortable and not that tight (and I'm not too small - 5'11").
Window seats offer great privacy, and having to step over someone's feet is not such a big deal.
Also, if you manage to grab a bulkhead seat with unrestricted access, you enjoy both freedom and extra legroom as a bonus.
The 8-abreast comparison is unfair because the seats are staggered and the actual seat width is no worse than others.
Storage is indeed limited, but you learn to cope.

Definitely better than UA pmCO 2-2-2 seats on 787 or the pmUA 8-abreast seats.
While AA 77W seat was nice, it didn't live up to the hype. The service was so terrible, I promised myself to never come back.
Also, BA's super-high-J 747 interiors look fresh and the IFE is brand new.
 
evank516
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:34 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise anyone if BA were to axe the JFK-LCY route, eventually. The number of business travelers, specifically bankers, flying NYC to LON is likely to be down somewhat for a variety of reasons. BA's product generally has become sub-par. The Terminal 7 experience at JFK is simply awful. The 747-400's are aging but what BA has is frequency. I don't see the A380 being added on the JFK route. It isn't needed. BA could probably add some 777-300ERs or mix them up with the 772s and as others have said, the 787-10 eventually. It's amazing to think that in what is one of the busiest and largest international city pairs in the world, the choice of aircraft has become somewhat ho hum. AA flies 1 777-300ER an 2 772ERs, while DL is a mix of 767 and A330 (going to all A330), VS has the A340-600, the A330-300s (which are actually nice), and UA is all 767-300 and 1 -400. Rewind 10-15 years ago, and everyone but their best product in this market. Not so much anymore.


If we re-wound 15 years ago, we only had 4 carriers flying from the US to LHR per the Bermuda II agreement. I believe it was 2008 when LHR finally opened up to all carriers pending slot availability leaving Gatwick a ghost town. 15 years ago was 2002. Only AA, UA, BA, and I think VS were allowed to fly in/out of Heathrow to the US. That probably kept some of the prestige there as well.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:11 pm

I find myself asking the same question as many other posters here - is this a route on which there is any real expectation of prestige?

Business travel in my mind always boils down to convenience and it's no less the case here, hence the frequencies offered by the key players on the route. For airlines a demand for convenience means an opportunity for great yields and that's also no less the case here.

Recall that almost all serious discussions of BA's current Club World hard product, after unanimously establishing that it is really quite sad, eventually end up recognising that it is also one of the most dense J products flying in terms of floor-space occupied... and yet BA have gone to effort of specially refitting an entire sub-fleet of aircraft with even more of these seats than they already had... and they keep filling them too!

That doesn't obviate, it must be said, a need on BA's behalf to ensure that the product remains competitive, but I think it demonstrates the reality of the market at the moment.

Recall also that at the time Concorde entered service - even though it did very quickly become an incomparable status symbol - our access to all the various means of speedy and almost-cost-free communication was practically incomprehensible to most people then. Single-operator voice calls between Europe and the USA only became possible in 1963 and still required scheduling for some time after that. International Direct Dialling as we know it today didn't become possible between New York and London until 1970. Prices were not to be sniffed at, either. Obviously telegrams and private telex systems were also possibilities but not for any large amount of correspondence or anything at all that couldn't be rendered in upper-case letters and numbers only - so from there all you had left was a letter or courier package.

So I don't have any great qualms in saying that Concorde's true utility to its intended market was the convenience of speed. Indeed in terms of the hard-product offered on board it would probably rank fairly low if presented today as a domestic J class...

BA have as much prestige as they need by the continued presence of the F cabin, but they're making the money in J as it is.
 
redroo
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:39 pm

It has been a while since I flew on BA as I am now on the other side of the planet. There was a time when I crossed the pond every month for an investment bank. In those days, it was BA and VS all the way. People would moan if we got booked on AA - even with free upgrades to First.

Now if I was to do it, I would have no hesitation booking AA before BA. The US carriers have really upped their game - both hard and soft product. The British carriers have gone the other way and are now the poor offering across the Pond.
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:47 pm

Cunard wrote:
As grand as it sounds it's not possible to operate an hourly shuttle service between LHR and JFK due to the nighttime aviation curfews at both airports and I seriously can't see that changing.

What is possible and something that both American and British Airways should be looking at is an hourly flight from LHR to JFK during the hours of 08.00 to 20.00.

Regarding LCY to JFK that will be gone within the next two years after Crossrail is opened and Brexit kicks in and the need for executives from Canary Wharf to use the route diminishes and with a possibility of an hourly shuttle from LHR between the hours of 08.00 and 21.00 there is no point in the LCY to JFK route.


While, as earlier posters have pointed out, there isn't a formal curfew at JFK, there is the sticky problem that, while a westbound hourly schedule works for 13 or 14 flights a day, an hourly schedule eastbound only works for about 3 or 4 flights in the morning, and 6 or 7 flights in the evening. And not all of those flights are going to be very popular; the morning departures from JFK might need to be downgauged all the way down to A321LR or C Series just to maintain decent load factors. Maybe there's ways the AA/BA JV can flow airplanes in an unbalanced pattern across the Atlantic, continuously into JFK but with one-way tag flights to ORD, PHL, and MIA for a big peak to LHR, but I think that's getting much too cute. (Speaking of, it's unclear how the emphasis on AA's other hubs affects the prestige of JFK-LHR. Moving connecting passengers almost certainly makes the JFK flights even more prem-heavy than before, but there's just not the volume there once was on the route if a big chunk of Y traffic is now going through PHL, and accentuating that imbalance doesn't help with fleet planning, either. At least it makes peak arrival hours at JFK somewhat less miserable.)

There's always going to be a big peak in demand in both directions in the evening, after the working day ends and after sufficient time to travel to the airport. Upgauge for that peak, downgauge outside of the peak to maintain frequency.

I agree that LCY-JFK is finished when direct Crossrail service to LHR opens. On the other side, if the perimeter rule is ever lifted, LHR-SNN-LGA-LHR is a tantalizing prospect for all of the legacy majors.

If we see IAG decide to renew/expand their A380 fleet, I would expect gate reconfigurations to follow shortly, including at JFK. If not, not, and the service will continue on 744s and twins for the next decade and beyond. The lack of an A380 gate isn't totally prohibitive, but it does weigh on IAG's fleet planning arithmetic.
 
Cunard
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:40 pm

If the perimeter rule was ever relaxed at LGA why would a flight from LHR still need to stop at SNN en route, surely with only one or two flights from London needing customs and immigration I'm assuming that LGA would put those facilities in place and the SNN stop wouldn't necessarily be needed, it's not as if one or two flights a day between LHR and LGA would create to many queues at immigration and customs and the times of those arrivals wouldn't probably overlap either.
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skipness1E
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:24 am

Hourly service? Er.....
There’s a reason that there is only one daylight eastbound flight and all the rest across the evening. That’s when people want to fly. An hourly service on long haul is a crackers idea. All those B744 flights departing JFK with a 30 min gap into the late evening do so to serve the strong p2p market heading for a day’s work in London as well as connecting to Europe in good time. Also please factor the timezone differences when writing your fantasy airline timetables #facepalm
Time is money for many on this route and so maximising the length of the productive work day is a huge driver of the schedule.
 
Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:39 am

ACDC8 wrote:
I'll just leave this here in regards to prestige ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc


I was expecting to see this ! https://youtu.be/v9bVFkDhGPE
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Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:39 am

ACDC8 wrote:
I'll just leave this here in regards to prestige ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc


I was expecting to see this ! https://youtu.be/v9bVFkDhGPE
223 319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 MD83 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

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MikeMidd2001
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:23 am

I've flown this on BA, AA, UA, VS in J and Y. What does BA need to do? Simple:

Improve the J experience for work, leisure and sleep purposes. As a work space, it is poor - there is no wifi, the lower drawer is tiny, there is almost no storage (unless you're in a 747 Upper Deck with the cubbies), once the table is in place you're basically trapped and can barely even reach a bag on the floor, etc. As a leisure space, too many of the screens are poor quality, BA service is hit or miss, for every good meal there's a bad one, etc. For sleep, as someone else said, it is barely possible to get a decent night's sleep, and the service doesn't make it easier - clattering around, lights on full blast way too early, lounge experience hit or miss, etc.

Even as a BAEC Gold member, I find it hard to justify the BA J product - in past couple months have flown AA, QR, EK and others to avoid BA J, all while earning my Tier Points.
 
TSA125
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:13 am

Why would there be a need for an "hourly shuttle service"? There are likely a few several time banks throughout the day with greatest demand (i.e. 6-7pm and 7-8am for JFK-LHR) Slots-permitting, of course.
No not that TSA.
 
Chelsearose
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:01 am

lhrsfosyd wrote:
They should retime existing frequencies to depart on the hour every hour between 8am and 8pm for LHR-JFK. This would be great PR and could be branded as New York Shuttle service. They should also introduce Fare Families on the route so that pax can switch to any flight on the day subject to space.


I actually was thinking the same. Could a 'Shuttle'-style service work for longhaul? Perhaps have flights running every hour from 06h00 to 22h00 out of LHR...
Last edited by Chelsearose on Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:12 am

Chelsearose wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
They should retime existing frequencies to depart on the hour every hour between 8am and 8pm for LHR-JFK. This would be great PR and could be branded as New York Shuttle service.


I actually was thinking the same. Could a 'Shuttle'-style service work for longhaul? Perhaps have flights running every hour from 06h00 to 22h00 out of LHR...


Nobody here actually reads the prior posts anymore, do they? This was literally posted six hours ago:

skipness1E wrote:
Hourly service? Er.....
There’s a reason that there is only one daylight eastbound flight and all the rest across the evening. That’s when people want to fly. An hourly service on long haul is a crackers idea. All those B744 flights departing JFK with a 30 min gap into the late evening do so to serve the strong p2p market heading for a day’s work in London as well as connecting to Europe in good time. Also please factor the timezone differences when writing your fantasy airline timetables #facepalm
Time is money for many on this route and so maximising the length of the productive work day is a huge driver of the schedule.
 
Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:37 am

Chelsearose wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
They should retime existing frequencies to depart on the hour every hour between 8am and 8pm for LHR-JFK. This would be great PR and could be branded as New York Shuttle service. They should also introduce Fare Families on the route so that pax can switch to any flight on the day subject to space.


I actually was thinking the same. Could a 'Shuttle'-style service work for longhaul? Perhaps have flights running every hour from 06h00 to 22h00 out of LHR...


Well apart from between 17:10 and 19:55, a BA plane will takeoff from a London airport bound for a New York airport from 8:30 onwards. Sometimes 2 an hour. It's pretty much a shuttle service now. Also a departure later than 8pm in London will mean an arrival later than 11pm. I doubt anyone would want to depart at 10pm and arrive at 1am.

Is there any other airline with 11 Departures a day to the same long haul destination?
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Cunard
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:30 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Chelsearose wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
They should retime existing frequencies to depart on the hour every hour between 8am and 8pm for LHR-JFK. This would be great PR and could be branded as New York Shuttle service.


I actually was thinking the same. Could a 'Shuttle'-style service work for longhaul? Perhaps have flights running every hour from 06h00 to 22h00 out of LHR...


Nobody here actually reads the prior posts anymore, do they? This was literally posted six hours ago!

I think that your absolutely spot on with that assumption, it's very common of late and very obvious that some posters do not read the previous posts so that they know what has already been discussed!

It's pure laziness and annoying and has gotten considerably worse on a.net.

This is where the moderators should be taking the lead by pointing that out.
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NichCage
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:42 pm

Has LCY-JFK been fully cut or is it operating at an reduced schedule?

I would assume BA has no plans to fly the A380 to JFK, which would no doubt be a very premium product to fly to New York.
 
Cunard
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:12 am

LCY to JFK is running at a reduced schedule over the holiday period obviously because of reduced demand and will resume back to it's normal schedule in the new year.

Most routes have capacity cuts during this time of year sometimes running into late January or even longer so it's no surprise to see British Airways reducing LCY to JFK.

Your correct..........British Airways have no intention of operating the A380 on LHR to JFK, firstly they don't have enough in their fleet plus even with one on the route that would be an oddball flight. The current 747's and B777's on LHR to JFK will more than likely be eventually replaced by the incoming A350's adding commonality on all flights between LHR and JFK.
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airzona11
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:13 am

With the size of the NYC-LON O/D, they operate the most frequencies, the most F seats, and the most J seats. The flights aren't incredibly long. I think BA has what the market is asking for. With AA offering the new J seats, they have a JV, so if BA is starting to see more demand for the AA flights, they will prioritize new seats there. I am just not sure there is much BA has to do/ will do.
 
Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:08 am

Cunard wrote:

Your correct..........British Airways have no intention of operating the A380 on LHR to JFK, firstly they don't have enough in their fleet plus even with one on the route that would be an oddball flight. The current 747's and B777's on LHR to JFK will more than likely be eventually replaced by the incoming A350's adding commonality on all flights between LHR and JFK.


But the main reason above all else being the Terminal can't handle it.
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Cunard
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:25 am

The fact that British Airways can't use the A380 at JFK Terminal 7 due to gate restrictions is obviously only ONE of the reasons that they won't be using the aircraft on LHR to JFK BUT if they really wanted to they would probably overcome that issue in some way BUT they obviously won't be doing so as British Airways won't be sending one of their limited A380's within the fleet to JFK when they are needed elsewhere in the network.

Eventually it will be all A350 with British Airways from LHR to JFK with commonality on all flights offering the same cabin layouts, a more simplified operation.
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FA9295
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:44 am

For what it's worth. EK is starting DXB-STN service in June 2018. No, it's not New York, but there's obviously at least some sort of passenger demand at that airport. Perhaps a STN-JFK route...?
 
Cunard
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:31 am

FA9295 wrote:
For what it's worth. EK is starting DXB-STN service in June 2018. No, it's not New York, but there's obviously at least some sort of passenger demand at that airport. Perhaps a STN-JFK route...?


Slightly irrelevant to this discussion I would say!

DXB to STN was announced nearly two weeks ago and was discussed in great detail in the civil aviation forum, do a search and you will find it.

PRIMERA commencing daily STN to EWR in May 2018, also highly discussed with it's own thread!

But still irrelevant to this thread as we are discussing British Airways.
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FA9295
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:00 am

Cunard wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
For what it's worth. EK is starting DXB-STN service in June 2018. No, it's not New York, but there's obviously at least some sort of passenger demand at that airport. Perhaps a STN-JFK route...?


Slightly irrelevant to this discussion I would say!

DXB to STN was announced nearly two weeks ago and was discussed in great detail in the civil aviation forum, do a search and you will find it.

PRIMERA commencing daily STN to EWR in May 2018, also highly discussed with it's own thread!

But still irrelevant to this thread as we are discussing British Airways.


Thanks, I know when it was announced. My point is that there's obviously some sort of demand for long-haul flights out of STN, hence the possibility of BA potentially starting a STN-JFK route...
 
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flyingphil
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:17 am

Maybe British Airways could consider STN - JFK ?
If you work in the City or Canary Wharf it is relatively easy to get to Stansted on the train from Liverpool Street or by taxi up the M11.
BA Cityflyer are already starting to use STN.
With limited slots at LHR and LGW there is little room to increase frequency.
Seems to be a bit of snobbery about using STN, I find it quite convenient.
It is being expanded and no doubt will reach capacity in a few years as it has one runway..
STN has a fairly prosperous cachement area... it also has an executive terminal for the many private jets that use STN...
 
scotron11
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:56 am

If BA had a gate capable of handling the A380 in T7 they would use it. It's the flagship of their fleet and is configured with the right size of F,J,Y+ and Y.

With all due respect, the A350 and B787-10 are just another 2 twinjets. Nothing really premium about them, unless they configure them ala SQ with an all premium cabin.
 
VC10er
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:36 am

As much as I will miss the 747 when they are gone, especially upstairs...I imagine that a consistent fleet of A350s from JFK and EWR, with great new interiors will be “just right” for the hardcore NYC/LHR flier. It’s all about convenience and comfort with just enough amenities to make it stylish and not dowdy. Same would go for the 787-10.
For the hardcore business travelers:
The fresher a daisy you are upon arrival the better.
The most comfort, relaxation, privacy and IFE/work on the return the better.
I’ve not flown into any other airport than LHR (except Gatwick on People Express in 1979) but I would fly into another airport in a snap if it proved to be more convenient.
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JustSomeDood
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:42 am

Much of what needs to be said on this topic has been said already, the "Air travel as jetsetter" age has long past, and the people who can pay for J prefer convenience above all else.

With that in mind, how much does BA actually benefit from putting F in near all their widebody fleet? As in, attract customers that aren't just paying J fares and upgrading with miles? Everybody else seems to be quite happy with phasing out F altogether. Maybe BA can phase out F, put more of their (mediocre) J seats in aircraft, and fragment J sales into packages to include value-adds like door-to-door Limo service, no-cost rebooking...etc? Just a thought
 
tonystan
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:18 am

I know many people would like to see the A380 on the JFK however I really feel it will become the bread and butter of the A350 & B787-10!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Bricktop
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:56 am

Arion640 wrote:
I was expecting to see this ! https://youtu.be/v9bVFkDhGPE

Thanks for sharing! That was unsurpassed prestige.
 
laca773
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:06 pm

N62NA wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
How bout introducing an actual J product? That would be a good start.


I agree. Their J is just plain awful. I book J in AA when I fly JFK-LHR.


We all know BA's product is quite dated at this point and time. They are making an effort to upgrade their CW cabins, but it all comes down to the seat at this stage.
The only reason why AA has a better product right now is they updated their hard product in J. IMO, their catering is still very spotty and the cabin crews are hit and miss. There is no consistency in the service provided in all cabins. Parker is a very frugal CEO and if he has his way, cuts will continue to be made in catering. BA really needs to roll out their new generation CW cabin and seats sooner than later. It's quite remarkable to hear folks say they prefer AA over BA as it really never has been that way.

It will be very interesting to see what happens in the coming months and years on this most prestigious route.
 
Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:28 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
I was expecting to see this ! https://youtu.be/v9bVFkDhGPE

Thanks for sharing! That was unsurpassed prestige.


No worries - I totally agree.
223 319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 MD83 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

Brexit - It’s time for global Britain.
 
BENAir01
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:22 pm

A couple of things:
1) are y’all a bunch of spoiled brats or something? BA J class may not be a fantastic product, but y’all are making it sound like you’d rather fly Air Transat economh than BA J... seriously?!?! It’s still a fully flat seat with some privacy, decent food, entertainment, etc. It may not He game changing and the best anymore, but is still a premium product and it’s still better than Airline in the back of the bus!!
2- The shuttle service sounds like a great way to advertise and the flight seem prestigious without making it that much better. The flights can only run until about a 20:00 departure from LHR, or else the chedyke would be horrible, but they could start leaving at 6 or 7 am. Think about it. Leave super duper early but sleep a little more on the plane and get into NYC in the for a late morning meeting. Going east on the other hand, you can’t do that. Who would want to leave 1500 and arrive at 0200? And at the same time who would want to leave at 0300 for a 1400 arrival? What works best is having one or two flights leave early in the morning (7-9am) And then having the remaining 10+ leave between 6pm and about 11pm. So like two flights every hour
3- The eastbound flight is very short, only about 5:30-6:30 hours in the air. So those flights don’t actually have to have great soft products, at least on the red eyes. Westbound on the other hand does need to be good.
Although to be fair, I flew BA J LHR-JFK on the 8pm flight last August, and I was very inpressed. I thought the food was very good - I got the Thai chicken curry and it reinforced why I usually get the saucy dishes as the sauce helped it stay moist and flavorful - and the flight attendants were amazing! I didn’t find the hard product bad either. I flew in the upper deck at a window seat, and I found it perfectly adequate. Very nice, in fact!
4- I still see a good market for LCY with a little advertising and the C-Seried for nonstop flights - the best benefit of LCY is that you can arrive like 15 mins before our flight! At LHR, even with CrossRail, you still have to be at the airport 2 hours before the flight.
And finally, all you people need to actually learn to read the other posts before you make another post suggesting the exact same thing as someone already said and got a lot of responses to. Please.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
Bald1983
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:15 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
They should retime existing frequencies to depart on the hour every hour between 8am and 8pm for LHR-JFK. This would be great PR and could be branded as New York Shuttle service. They should also introduce Fare Families on the route so that pax can switch to any flight on the day subject to space.


Sounds like your plan would flood the route with over capacity. In the end, it is not about "prestige;" it is about making money.
 
Bald1983
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:17 pm

IN the end, it is not about prestige; it is about making money. In the days when everything was strictly controlled, there was a prestige feel but, in these days, everybody and his sister is flying transatlantic with more coming. Now it depends on good service at a reasonable price.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:37 pm

In terms of actual capacity, these are some current BA configurations:
A388   F14 J97 W55 Y303
B744   F14 J86 W30 Y145 ("V4"; Super-High J)
B77W   F14 J56 W44 Y185
B789   F08 J42 W39 Y127


So even if the terminal at JFK could take an A380, an upgauge there would be a vast increase mainly in Y seats while delivering only 11 more J seats that are exactly the same as the 744. No real point when the A380s can be better used on routes where the Y demand gives better yields.
 
Antarius
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:44 pm

747-600X wrote:
I mean, given that New York doesn't have any airports that aren't an embarrassment to the entire country...


No kidding.

how could BA continue a prestigious London-NYC experience? Rebuild LHR and JFK to not suck. :x
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
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Jayafe
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:55 pm

Antarius wrote:
747-600X wrote:
I mean, given that New York doesn't have any airports that aren't an embarrassment to the entire country...


No kidding.

how could BA continue a prestigious London-NYC experience? Rebuild LHR and JFK to not suck. :x


Just JFK. You have LCY on the east side for a brilliant experience ;)
 
Antarius
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:22 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Antarius wrote:
747-600X wrote:
I mean, given that New York doesn't have any airports that aren't an embarrassment to the entire country...


No kidding.

how could BA continue a prestigious London-NYC experience? Rebuild LHR and JFK to not suck. :x


Just JFK. You have LCY on the east side for a brilliant experience ;)


Touche. LCY is an awesome airport.

Finally managed to fly out of it this year. Flew on a flybe prop from LCY - ABZ. Enjoyed it a lot.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
GBNWB
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:27 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Hourly service? Er.....
There’s a reason that there is only one daylight eastbound flight and all the rest across the evening. That’s when people want to fly. An hourly service on long haul is a crackers idea. All those B744 flights departing JFK with a 30 min gap into the late evening do so to serve the strong p2p market heading for a day’s work in London as well as connecting to Europe in good time. Also please factor the timezone differences when writing your fantasy airline timetables #facepalm
Time is money for many on this route and so maximising the length of the productive work day is a huge driver of the schedule.


I get that people like to work a day in NYC then fly in the evening, but as a leisure traveller I would always pick the AAL141 or BAW178 from NYC or the AAL90 from ORD so that I could be back home in my bed at a reasonable time. The red eye arrivals into the UK from the US are just awful, even with a few hours kip on the plane. For MAN I would rather arrive into LHR in the evening, kip at the Premier Inn and then fly north in the morning than endure a night trying to kip on a plane with 300 other people.

Last time on the AA141 I was sat next to CeeLo green in J.
 
skipness1E
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:20 pm

Antarius wrote:
747-600X wrote:
I mean, given that New York doesn't have any airports that aren't an embarrassment to the entire country...


No kidding.

how could BA continue a prestigious London-NYC experience? Rebuild LHR and JFK to not suck. :x

Oh be fair, T5 and T2 are new builds, T3 is nice and quiet out peak and T4 is an oasis of some calm. Try any of that before Mar-2008 and I would agree.
 
phxsanslcpdx
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:56 pm

Could either the CS100 or A318 make it from LCY to refuel in YHZ, YOW, BGR, or something else within La Guardia's perimter? If a business traveler could save time at both ends of the flight (for those closer to LCY & LGA than to LHR & JFK), it would seem like a good possibility.
 
Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:12 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
In terms of actual capacity, these are some current BA configurations:
A388   F14 J97 W55 Y303
B744   F14 J86 W30 Y145 ("V4"; Super-High J)
B77W   F14 J56 W44 Y185
B789   F08 J42 W39 Y127


So even if the terminal at JFK could take an A380, an upgauge there would be a vast increase mainly in Y seats while delivering only 11 more J seats that are exactly the same as the 744. No real point when the A380s can be better used on routes where the Y demand gives better yields.


Can't agree more.

I've been saying this for a long long time.
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N62NA
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:43 pm

GBNWB wrote:
I get that people like to work a day in NYC then fly in the evening, but as a leisure traveller I would always pick the AAL141 or BAW178 from NYC or the AAL90 from ORD so that I could be back home in my bed at a reasonable time. The red eye arrivals into the UK from the US are just awful, even with a few hours kip on the plane. For MAN I would rather arrive into LHR in the evening, kip at the Premier Inn and then fly north in the morning than endure a night trying to kip on a plane with 300 other people.

Last time on the AA141 I was sat next to CeeLo green in J.


I've flown MIA-LHR overnight in F and hated flying overnight (though the flight crew and service was wonderful). I just can't sleep on a plane.

Flew the daytime BA 178 JFK-LHR in F and enjoyed it quite a bit, though it was a wee bit early for me.

Will be taking the AA daytime JFK-LHR in J in April. Looking forward to it.

A daytime flight TATL eastbound is definitely the way to go - for me!
 
Antarius
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:55 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Antarius wrote:
747-600X wrote:
I mean, given that New York doesn't have any airports that aren't an embarrassment to the entire country...


No kidding.

how could BA continue a prestigious London-NYC experience? Rebuild LHR and JFK to not suck. :x

Oh be fair, T5 and T2 are new builds, T3 is nice and quiet out peak and T4 is an oasis of some calm. Try any of that before Mar-2008 and I would agree.


Agreed... Individually T5 is excellent.. T2 is nice, T4 is fine too. the problem is when you have to go between them.

I do the T3 --> T5 trek regularly (USA--> LHR on AA and then onwards on BA) and yech. Still leaps and bounds ahead of any of the NYC airports though.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
Arion640
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Re: How could BA continue a prestigious London-New York experience?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:59 pm

GBNWB wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Hourly service? Er.....
There’s a reason that there is only one daylight eastbound flight and all the rest across the evening. That’s when people want to fly. An hourly service on long haul is a crackers idea. All those B744 flights departing JFK with a 30 min gap into the late evening do so to serve the strong p2p market heading for a day’s work in London as well as connecting to Europe in good time. Also please factor the timezone differences when writing your fantasy airline timetables #facepalm
Time is money for many on this route and so maximising the length of the productive work day is a huge driver of the schedule.


I get that people like to work a day in NYC then fly in the evening, but as a leisure traveller I would always pick the AAL141 or BAW178 from NYC or the AAL90 from ORD so that I could be back home in my bed at a reasonable time. The red eye arrivals into the UK from the US are just awful, even with a few hours kip on the plane. For MAN I would rather arrive into LHR in the evening, kip at the Premier Inn and then fly north in the morning than endure a night trying to kip on a plane with 300 other people.

Last time on the AA141 I was sat next to CeeLo green in J.



The Red Eyes are to maximise time for the Business traveller. They don't really want to waste a whole day flying when they could be doing more productive things. Work a whole day in New York, arrive in London in time to work a whole day there, then take the last flight of the day back to JFK and your ready for another day in New York.

As a lesuire traveller I'd also choose the flight times you mentioned (but i did take the 115 home recently), but the JFK route isn't a lesuire driven service. Perhaps the least leisure driven in the world..
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