Iberia is ready to start its long-haul fleet renovation with the arrival of the brand-new A350. They have options for getting up to 16 of these big birds. However they haven't said much about which are the inaugural routes they will be using them for.

If you take a look at Iberia's network, you easily notice that its core business is South America. Some of their longest routes are SCL (7x weekly), EZE (up to 17x weekly next autumn 18) and MEX (14x weekly). These three I would say are the ones which historically have reported the best revenues for the airline, mainly when looking at business pax.

South America is though, one of the areas in the world with the least presence of the A350, with just about 7 units owned by LATAM Brasil (formerly TAM). These airplanes are mainly flying Asia-Europe-North America.

They would surely burn less fuel for the PVG and NRT services which Iberia has been flying for a bit over a year, though these markets are yet too weak for the Spanish airline.

Any bets?

During the announcement of IB's addiotional frequencies to EZE they said JFK and BOS would be the first routes.
For EZE and SCL they said they would wait for more frames to come in.

Interesting... I read some of the news regarding the press meeting in BUE, but I couldn't find any reference to the BOS and JFK choice to be flown by the a350.

Both BOS and JFK are marketed in the website of the airline operated by A340 (one of the daily services to JFK) and A330 the rest.

Out of the well-established markets of the airline, the only one which won't have much of limitations in terms of flying time or height would be GRU.

Maybe the first in South America?

Heathrow. They’ll maybe replace the A346 for familiarity?

skipness1E wrote:

Heathrow. They’ll maybe replace the A346 for familiarity?

LOL. For sure they'll need to put them on this route for crew training purposes.

a350lover wrote:

Interesting... I read some of the news regarding the press meeting in BUE, but I couldn't find any reference to the BOS and JFK choice to be flown by the a350.

Both BOS and JFK are marketed in the website of the airline operated by A340 (one of the daily services to JFK) and A330 the rest.

Out of the well-established markets of the airline, the only one which won't have much of limitations in terms of flying time or height would be GRU.

Maybe the first in South America?

Neither EZE nor SCL have any height issues. In fact the only airports in the region that have such issues are BOG and UIO. GRU, with just a daily A330 flight is not a key market for IB in the region, not in the same league as EZE or MEX. I believe that when IB introduces the A350 to Latin America, it will be to those two cities. That is where the yields are.

The issue with flying to EZE and MEX is that Iberia needs two frames to maintain daily service. Thus it is easier to introduce the A350 on flights to the US East Coat, where Iberia can maintain a daily rotation with one frame while familiarizing flight and ground crews with the new plane.

marcoantona wrote:

During the announcement of IB's addiotional frequencies to EZE they said JFK and BOS would be the first routes.
For EZE and SCL they said they would wait for more frames to come in.

Do you know if this will result in frequency being decreased because it is a larger aircraft?

dcajet wrote:

a350lover wrote:

Interesting... I read some of the news regarding the press meeting in BUE, but I couldn't find any reference to the BOS and JFK choice to be flown by the a350.

Both BOS and JFK are marketed in the website of the airline operated by A340 (one of the daily services to JFK) and A330 the rest.

Out of the well-established markets of the airline, the only one which won't have much of limitations in terms of flying time or height would be GRU.

Maybe the first in South America?

Neither EZE nor SCL have any height issues. In fact the only airports in the region that have such issues are BOG and UIO. GRU, with just a daily A330 flight is not a key market for IB in the region, not in the same league as EZE or MEX. I believe that when IB introduces the A350 to Latin America, it will be to those two cities. That is where the yields are.

The issue with flying to EZE and MEX is that Iberia needs two frames to maintain daily service. Thus it is easier to introduce the A350 on flights to the US East Coat, where Iberia can maintain a daily rotation with one frame while familiarizing flight and ground crews with the new plane.

MEX also has height/temp issues, as it is barely lower than BOG and somewhat warmer.

I heard that BOG, currently served by the A340-600, was going to be the first A350 destination in Latin America. (They are upping frequencies form 7x o 10x weekly in the 2018 winter timetable, so maybe those three extra will get the A350?).

Will IB be introducing a new J product or will it remain the same? Maybe time for new uniforms too! Yeah

dcajet wrote:

The issue with flying to EZE and MEX is that Iberia needs two frames to maintain daily service. Thus it is easier to introduce the A350 on flights to the US East Coat, where Iberia can maintain a daily rotation with one frame while familiarizing flight and ground crews with the new plane.

This makes sense. Both Asian destinations could also be upgraded to A350 if they had the availability of aicrafts too. I am not sure how good are they performing in loads of the J pax. For sure the Y pax would appreciate the upgrading.

smi0006 wrote:

Will IB be introducing a new J product or will it remain the same? Maybe time for new uniforms too! Yeah

Not sure about a new J product but it will be revised as well as the livery. New uniforms will be introduced next year.

dcajet wrote:

Neither EZE nor SCL have any height issues. In fact the only airports in the region that have such issues are BOG and UIO. GRU, with just a daily A330 flight is not a key market for IB in the region, not in the same league as EZE or MEX. I believe that when IB introduces the A350 to Latin America, it will be to those two cities. That is where the yields are.

When we discuss about likely Iberia new routes, many agree that prior to that they need to rebuild capacity in some of their core markets. I would say GRU could potentially become 2x daily at some point. In fact, they are adding some extra weekly frequencies to GIG, while GRU has a lot of more potential in terms of J pax. Not sure how much freedom has Iberia because of the codeshare agreement with LATAM.

MEX became 3x daily some days the last S17. However, it looks like they won't be repeating the operation next S18. Maybe it didn't well?

When are they due to start taking delivery of them?
I'm certainly hoping to see them on the LHR run sometime too.

n729pa wrote:

When are they due to start taking delivery of them?
I'm certainly hoping to see them on the LHR run sometime too.

They are due to be delivered this coming summer 18. Likely to start operating for them the second part of the summer, say... September 18 for sure.

From internal info we should be seeing A350 to TLV as well this year ( Just like the 333 when it was first delivered)

In the A333 ....IB put the new planes to BOS and ORD.With the A350 maybe is the same.

kelual wrote:

Not sure about a new J product but it will be revised as well as the livery. New uniforms will be introduced next year.

Finally red nacelles?

yochai wrote:

From internal info we should be seeing A350 to TLV as well this year ( Just like the 333 when it was first delivered)

Makes sense. This route has been transferred to the A330 fleet anyway, right?

Jayafe wrote:

kelual wrote:

Not sure about a new J product but it will be revised as well as the livery. New uniforms will be introduced next year.

Finally red nacelles?

New IB livery did I hear you say...

As far as I know they have 16 orders confirmed n 16 options more.
I seriously doubt the first destination is in South America due to rotations. Bos...I think it’s too much plane. I bet the first one will go either JFK or ORD.

TheLion wrote:

Jayafe wrote:

kelual wrote:

Not sure about a new J product but it will be revised as well as the livery. New uniforms will be introduced next year.

Finally red nacelles?

New IB livery did I hear you say...

A revised one would be nice. I seriously doubt they will drop the whole identity a few years after being introduced and when not even all the planes are already painted with it.

NickolayAv wrote:

marcoantona wrote:

During the announcement of IB's addiotional frequencies to EZE they said JFK and BOS would be the first routes.
For EZE and SCL they said they would wait for more frames to come in.

Do you know if this will result in frequency being decreased because it is a larger aircraft?

MAD-JFK is served with A333 along with BOS so I don't think there would be much of a "larger aircraft" argument in the first place, especially since A359 is basically an A333-sized aircraft for long haul (replacing A343 in Airbus' catalogue).

Michael

eamondzhang wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

marcoantona wrote:

During the announcement of IB's addiotional frequencies to EZE they said JFK and BOS would be the first routes.
For EZE and SCL they said they would wait for more frames to come in.

Do you know if this will result in frequency being decreased because it is a larger aircraft?

MAD-JFK is served with A333 along with BOS so I don't think there would be much of a "larger aircraft" argument in the first place, especially since A359 is basically an A333-sized aircraft for long haul (replacing A343 in Airbus' catalogue).

Michael

You are wrong as you are ignoring seat distribution. IB will put 348 seats on its A350 (31J, 24Y+, 293Y) , I think that is not a "basically A333 sized aircraft" regarding capacity, as IB's have 291 (29J, 21Y+, 241Y). Unless for you a 20% growth in capacity means "same plane".

Please keep to the topic and keep the personal comments towards one another out of the discussion otherwise the thread will be locked

n729pa wrote:

When are they due to start taking delivery of them?
I'm certainly hoping to see them on the LHR run sometime too.

The 1st of june 2018 is the date chosen for IBs A350 first flight

Back in the 70's and 80´s and maybe part of the 90's, when IBERIA was stated-owned, the cabin crews had a reputation of being unfriendly and in many cases bad tempered.

However, since IAG bought the company things have changed 180º. The new crews are very friendly and -surprisingly- many of them try to engage in small talk with passengers while serving them. I've had four very good flights with them in the last few months.

I believe the only area where they still need to improve is their English. I heard "some" of them answering to passengers' questions and it was a bit embarrassing. I want to clarify that it was only some of them, as others were perfectly fine.

Jayafe wrote:

eamondzhang wrote:

NickolayAv wrote:

Do you know if this will result in frequency being decreased because it is a larger aircraft?

MAD-JFK is served with A333 along with BOS so I don't think there would be much of a "larger aircraft" argument in the first place, especially since A359 is basically an A333-sized aircraft for long haul (replacing A343 in Airbus' catalogue).

Michael

You are wrong as you are ignoring seat distribution. IB will put 348 seats on its A350 (31J, 24Y+, 293Y) , I think that is not a "basically A333 sized aircraft" regarding capacity, as IB's have 291 (29J, 21Y+, 241Y). Unless for you a 20% growth in capacity means "same plane".

If you pay close attention you'll find that the most growth on seat counts come from Y class' 3-3-3 arrangements instead of 2-4-2. This also applies to the majority of other A350 operators.

Michael

kelual wrote:

The 1st of june 2018 is the date chosen for IBs A350 first flight

Is that on the news anywhere? Couldn't find it, and when you look at their routes on the website, they all seem to be operated still with the current long-haul fleet.

Surely Iberia has a strategy I don't know about, but I woulnd't put this ultimate model, truly cool, in a route like BOS, which IMO does not mean that much for its network. Unless they truly can't use it for anywhere else due to rotations/limitations until fully implemented to the fleet.

We'll see ...

eamondzhang wrote:

If you pay close attention you'll find that the most growth on seat counts come from Y class' 3-3-3 arrangements instead of 2-4-2. This also applies to the majority of other A350 operators.

Michael

Which is still a 20% growth in the number of seats from one plane to the other, which might (or might not) affect to the frequencies offer as stated above.

smi0006 wrote:

Will IB be introducing a new J product or will it remain the same? Maybe time for new uniforms too! Yeah

IB just rolled out a new business class, as well as a new premium Y. The new A350s are being delivered with that hardware fitted in. Highly doubt we will see new hardware until 3-5 years from now.

a350lover wrote:

I would say GRU could potentially become 2x daily at some point. In fact, they are adding some extra weekly frequencies to GIG, while GRU has a lot of more potential in terms of J pax. Not sure how much freedom has Iberia because of the codeshare agreement with LATAM.

MEX became 3x daily some days the last S17. However, it looks like they won't be repeating the operation next S18. Maybe it didn't well?

GRU used to be 2x daily on some days before the Brazilian crisis hit. I am sure at some point we will see IB get back to growth mode there. It is not so much lack of traffic - Sao Paulo generates enormous demand for travel, but, rather, that yields continue to be depressed since the crisis and it will take some time for them to return to pre-crisis levels.

a350lover wrote:

yochai wrote:

From internal info we should be seeing A350 to TLV as well this year ( Just like the 333 when it was first delivered)

Makes sense. This route has been transferred to the A330 fleet anyway, right?

Yes.Operation moves to daily A332 from March 1st

dcajet wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Will IB be introducing a new J product or will it remain the same? Maybe time for new uniforms too! Yeah

IB just rolled out a new business class, as well as a new premium Y. The new A350s are being delivered with that hardware fitted in. Highly doubt we will see new hardware until 3-5 years from now.

a350lover wrote:

I would say GRU could potentially become 2x daily at some point. In fact, they are adding some extra weekly frequencies to GIG, while GRU has a lot of more potential in terms of J pax. Not sure how much freedom has Iberia because of the codeshare agreement with LATAM.

MEX became 3x daily some days the last S17. However, it looks like they won't be repeating the operation next S18. Maybe it didn't well?

GRU used to be 2x daily on some days before the Brazilian crisis hit. I am sure at some point we will see IB get back to growth mode there. It is not so much lack of traffic - Sao Paulo generates enormous demand for travel, but, rather, that yields continue to be depressed since the crisis and it will take some time for them to return to pre-crisis levels.

I don't think we will see any of the previous Brazil flights back soon, but it's big market and IB has a great position to connect SA and Europa, and ifIB add more Asia flights then we might see more freqs in the future.

how does the ETOPS certification works when introducing the A350 in the case of IB??? Do they get the same ETOPS IB has currently for the A330??
I think for crew training the A350 will be doing some LHR and Canary Islands flights and doing the East Coast of the USA seem logical so they can do a daily rotation per plane.

marcoantona wrote:

During the announcement of IB's addiotional frequencies to EZE they said JFK and BOS would be the first routes.

Interesting. I would have imagined that the 2-class A333 was more than enough (in terms of seats) for IB's MAD-BOS. In any case, congrats to BOS for this new A359 route!

dcajet wrote:

The issue with flying to EZE and MEX is that Iberia needs two frames to maintain daily service. Thus it is easier to introduce the A350 on flights to the US East Coat, where Iberia can maintain a daily rotation with one frame while familiarizing flight and ground crews with the new plane.

Very good point. In any case, I think MEX will be one of the first IB Latin American routes to receive the A359. AM is now flying the 789 to MAD, which features full-flat 1-2-1 seating in J, so this should give IB the incentive to throw its newest product at MEX. AR's EZE-MAD on the other hand features 2-2-2 with angled-flat seats in J, so IB should not be as hard pressed to send a newer product to EZE.

a350lover wrote:

MEX became 3x daily some days the last S17. However, it looks like they won't be repeating the operation next S18. Maybe it didn't well?

Well, I am sure the demand is there. However, so many seats may have depressed yields. I guess it is wiser to limit the offer of seats a bit in order to maintain the profitability of two daily flights. In other words, maybe for IB it is more profitable to send two full A346s to MEX on a daily basis during the busiest times of the year, filled with pax who paid more expensive fares on average, than to send some days of the week three A346s (full or less than full) where many passengers paid cheap fares or are traveling on award seats.

a350lover wrote:

kelual wrote:

The 1st of june 2018 is the date chosen for IBs A350 first flight

Is that on the news anywhere? Couldn't find it, and when you look at their routes on the website, they all seem to be operated still with the current long-haul fleet.

Surely Iberia has a strategy I don't know about, but I woulnd't put this ultimate model, truly cool, in a route like BOS, which IMO does not mean that much for its network. Unless they truly can't use it for anywhere else due to rotations/limitations until fully implemented to the fleet.

We'll see ...

So a city that's one of the largest financial centers in the world, a huge medical and biotech hub, multiple world renowned universities and a huge tech hub does not mean much for IB's network?! Ha! What an ignorant comment.

BOS is a very important station not just for IB, but IAG as a whole. You clearly aren't aware of that.

MAD-BOS sounds like a prime candidate for the A350 along with MAD-GRU.

clrd4t8koff wrote:

a350lover wrote:

kelual wrote:

The 1st of june 2018 is the date chosen for IBs A350 first flight

Is that on the news anywhere? Couldn't find it, and when you look at their routes on the website, they all seem to be operated still with the current long-haul fleet.

Surely Iberia has a strategy I don't know about, but I woulnd't put this ultimate model, truly cool, in a route like BOS, which IMO does not mean that much for its network. Unless they truly can't use it for anywhere else due to rotations/limitations until fully implemented to the fleet.

We'll see ...

So a city that's one of the largest financial centers in the world, a huge medical and biotech hub, multiple world renowned universities and a huge tech hub does not mean much for IB's network?! Ha! What an ignorant comment.

BOS is a very important station not just for IB, but IAG as a whole. You clearly aren't aware of that.

Cool your jets. BOS is all of those things but still be a non-vital part of IB's network. BOS is still only a seasonal destination from MAD.

It's so obvious: MIA, the most important airport in the world!

Just kidding.

I agree with those who have listed some of the major South American destinations. I would think any flights like MAD-ORD/BOS would be short term just to get crews a bit of "short" long-haul training after the initial MAD-LHR-MAD flights.

SJO, SFO, LAX, PEK, NRT?

Will they ever do DFW?

BreezyIAH wrote:

Will they ever do DFW?

Considering it is already served via the JV with AA metal, doubtful anytime soon.

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

UX is using its 787 to several of its long-haul routes. If I am right, mainly to MIA, EZE, BOG, LIM, HAV and SDQ, plus TLV often. Considering UX is todays' most direct IBE competitor on these routes, that leaves an idea of where should Iberia show off a bit more its new fleet.

PD. Of course, UX has already an established fleet of 787, which Iberia won't have with the A350 at first.

LH658 wrote:

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

They send the 332

Kadish wrote:

LH658 wrote:

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

They send the 332

And the 346 for much of the year. LA is pretty decent for yeilds for most carriers as well as being the world's largest O&D station. If you're any kind of serious airline, and within reasonable load range, LA is getting your flagship. You'd be crazy not to.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Kadish wrote:

LH658 wrote:

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

They send the 332

And the 346 for much of the year. LA is pretty decent for yeilds for most carriers as well as being the world's largest O&D station. If you're any kind of serious airline, and within reasonable load range, LA is getting your flagship. You'd be crazy not to.

I don’t think that being serious or not do not depend on serving LAX.
For instance LAX is not the primary hub of any of the biggest american Airlines.

BreezyIAH wrote:

SJO, SFO, LAX, PEK, NRT?

LH658 wrote:

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

I would love to see IB's A350s at LAX, even if it means the loss of the beautiful A340s

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Kadish wrote:

LH658 wrote:

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

They send the 332

LA is pretty decent for yeilds for most carriers as well as being the world's largest O&D station.

I thought NYC was the world's largest O&D market...

dcajet wrote:

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Kadish wrote:

They send the 332

LA is pretty decent for yeilds for most carriers as well as being the world's largest O&D station.

I thought NYC was the world's largest O&D market...

That should have read LAX. NYC is marginally bigger, but it's also three airports.

In any case, the larger point is that if an airline can't send their biggest and best to the dozen or so alpha class markets out there (of which NYC is certainly one), not much reason to be an international player. Technical abilities notwithstanding...

NeBaNi wrote:

BreezyIAH wrote:

SJO, SFO, LAX, PEK, NRT?

LH658 wrote:

Probably LAX, must be high maintenance cost for the A346.

I would love to see IB's A350s at LAX, even if it means the loss of the beautiful A340s

I do have a bad feeling it will be a trade. But hey, maybe they'll do what IAG do for BA. They send 380 and 744. IB still could alternate given capacity similarities between the 346 and 359.

Kadish wrote:

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Kadish wrote:

They send the 332

And the 346 for much of the year. LA is pretty decent for yeilds for most carriers as well as being the world's largest O&D station. If you're any kind of serious airline, and within reasonable load range, LA is getting your flagship. You'd be crazy not to.

I don’t think that being serious or not do not depend on serving LAX.
For instance LAX is not the primary hub of any of the biggest american Airlines.

LAX isn't a "primary" hub for the US3 &WN because it can't be. There simply isn't the space for one to dominate until another abdicates. However, you need to remember that there are five major focus operations here, the three largest of which are the equivalents of most other hub operations out there. This is not duplicated elsewhere.

Between the sheer scale of our O&D market and the fact that every major alliance operate huge stations there, there's no marketing/branding reason not to send the best product you can. It's a very similar situation (although there are slight operational dissimilarities), to what you find in NYC, LON, etc.

in a few days start the first IB A350 production.......maybe IB said the first destination.

I remember reading Iberia's press release that Chicago ORD was going to be their first A350 destination. I tried to look for it and had no luck finding it.