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sw733
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:34 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
A couple of points to make:

1. It's always interesting to figure out how something like this happened. A lot of factors need to line up before an aircraft takes off with someone onboard who shouldn't be. As others have noticed, the Gate Agents have to slip up somehow, but once onboard the plane, the seat assigned to the rogue passenger needs to be free. It is isn't, then the mistake should be picked up there and then when two passengers are somehow assigned to the same seat. Then someone has to make a mistake with the headcount, etc. etc. A great many stars which must align before something like this happens!

2. This Teigen person sounds unpleasant. I can't say I've heard of her before today, but apparently she is quite well-known. Her Tweets come across as over-entitled and narcissistic. It's all about her, which is pretty ridiculous. I noticed that the BBC described her experience as "an ordeal" in their article. I mean, come on - an aircraft diversion due to an administrative error is not an ordeal. An inconvenience? Yes. But an ordeal? No. Let's have some perspective.


I have had the chance to meet her a few times and she's a delightful person. I followed all of her tweets and never found a single one entitled or narcissistic, just funny.

Also, how can one blame her when BBC chose to call it an "ordeal"?

I'm pretty sure she handled it better than a lot of the babies on this website would (not saying you).
 
StarAC17
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:28 pm

mmo wrote:
Having read this entire thread, no one, unless I missed it, mentioned a passport. The person involved could have been without a passport and that is why the decision was made to return to LAX. I can tell you, the crew didn't make the decision and ANA Ops would have made the call. I can assure you senior management would have been consulted. If the flight was a very light load, which it appears to be the case, it could have been more cost effective to return.


How does that person board/check in? Standard procedure is to scan the passport at check in and then the boarding pass is scanned again at security and in the US and in most countries on international flights ID is checked upon boarding. I would think that someone boarding a flight to NRT without a passport would make no sense.

DBun wrote:
There was an episode of Full House (American Sit-com) Where Stephanie and Michelle accidentally boarded a flight to Auckland (out of SFO) and had to go all the way and back. not at all related to this incident, but made me think of it immediately.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0584117/


I was thinking of that and Home Alone 2 also. How is Kevin allowed to board that plane and the FA simply makes him find an empty seat. I don't care that he crashed into the gate agent it would take about 5 minutes to find his boarding pass.

I remember as a Kid hearing that and thinking he said Oakland. Watched it recently on Netflix and it is obviously Auckland in a Kiwi accent (going there helps).

You know a lot less when you are 10.
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aeromoe
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:41 pm

We've come such a long way from the time when you just walked onto a PeoplExpress flight and paid for your ticket onboard...of course that was an exception rather than the rule in the industry.
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ltbewr
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:56 pm

kalvado wrote:
Could be that unaccompanied bag came into play? But then UA flight should be diverting as well.

That would make the most sense but should have involved both flights although it would have been screened already. Still this raises serious security issues. I recall on a 1989 flight out of LAX to SYD, a pax's bag made it on board but they didn't and we had to return to the gate to remove their bag. Maybe UA will just hold it at NRT for her and save the hassle.
 
QANTAS747-438
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:25 pm

Could they have used one of the new boarding machines at TBIT that scan your face? Perhaps that failed?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
crownvic
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:26 pm

Gwen Meighan suspended the head count on Global 2, Golden Argosy Service when captain Vern Demerest said to close the door they were off to Rome...No head count there....
 
4engines4lnghll
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:02 pm

I think it was definitely made a more public deal because of Chrissy Teigen and John Legend were live tweeting the entire time this was happening. And in case you've been living under a rock, John Legend is a Grammy winning singer-songwriter and his wife, Chrissy Teigen has become a big A lister personality. Its funny these things STILL happen these days.
4engines4lnghll
 
HALFA
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:23 pm

At HA, it is not mandatory for flight attendants to count passengers. We haven't counted passengers in years!
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:44 pm

Some input from me as a former ground dispatcher..

First of all, I've had wrongfully boarded passengers on my flights at AMS way more often then I care for. Always exclusively the result of some poorly trained, and uninterested gate agent. I've had passengers with bright orange, home printed Easyjet boarding cards, end up on BA flights. "But it said LGW!" Yes, and we have about 12x AMS-LGW per day, that's why there's an accompanying FLIGHT NUMBER on the pass.

Secondly, headcounts, these aren't at all a common occurrence at most airlines in my opinion. Both European as from other parts of the world. I'd say the vast majority of airlines don't do headcounts anymore. When you have 200+ passengers the counting will take way too long. If you have several F/A's counting separate sections, the adding up will undoubtedly frequently miss match, having to do it all over. The resulting delays would cost much more then the rare return to stand because of a wrongfully boarded pap!

Lastly, I think there's more to the story then is being published. Honestly, this far into the flight, doesn't it make much more sense to move on? The passenger will have been security checked, if not, and if he/she had plans to do something bad, they would have done so in that 7 hours in the air!

My two (euro)cents,

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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DocLightning
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:58 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just continue to the destination and send that person back on the next flight to LAX?


I don't know what the policy is, but in general the Japanese are known for being fastidious and it wouldn't surprise me if landing in Japan with someone aboard who ought not to be would create a bureaucratic hassle and massive fine for NH.

But as a passenger, I would be livid. To have to sit on an aircraft in flight for eight hours to just wind up back at your destination over the most inexcusable error in the book??? :bomb: :bomb: :bomb:
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wxman11
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:41 pm

While everyone have valid opinions, it could very well be that the passenger may have had a similar name with someone who was on the flight as well. Boarding can be a rush like cattle herds trying to board the flight. I can see how that may cause a mix up but not enough to warrant the flight having to divert back, especially if the passenger has demonstrated no intention of causing harm to the flight.
 
bzcat
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:02 pm

I don't know anything but it won't stop me from speculating :D

My guess is the passenger in question is a transit passenger from another another place booked on NH code share XXX-LAX-NRT flight operated by UA. You can see how this happened...

1. Passenger boards UA flight somewhere else and had his or her passport scanned and bags tagged to NRT. If he or she was LAX originating, and went to TBIT to check in, NH would have told him or her to go to T7 to check in.
2. Upon arriving at LAX, passenger probably asked an ill-informed UA employee or random passerby where to catch his or her "NH" flight. Someone might have even looked at the boarding pass and saw NHXXXX and told this person to go to TBIT.
3. You can now transit from T7 to TBIT without leaving security so this person probably didn't go thru TSA at TBIT where someone may have asked... are you sure you are going to the right place? (I know you can enter any terminal with a boarding pass but my experience at LAX tells me the TSA agent usually asks if you are going to the lounge if you have the "wrong" boarding pass)
4. Passenger showed up at TBIT gate and waited to board and didn't bother checking the flight number. It just so happen both UA and NH flight departs at identical time to identical airport.
5. Someone working for NH (or whomever does ground handling for NH at LAX) manually boarded the passenger. We don't know if the scanner picked up the problem or it was just ignored but certainly at some point, someone had to look at the boarding pass (probably has UA stock but with HN flight numbers) and said meh... just let him or her on board so we can push back on time.
6. Meanwhile at T7, UA probably paged this passenger several times before removing his or her bags.
7. After NH175 departed, someone doing paperwork probably noticed a headcount discrepancy and it took them an hour or two to go thru the manifest and find the problem.
8. Many phone calls and emails between LA and Japan later, decision to return to LAX was made 4.5 hours into flight time.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:16 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
mmo wrote:
Having read this entire thread, no one, unless I missed it, mentioned a passport. The person involved could have been without a passport and that is why the decision was made to return to LAX. I can tell you, the crew didn't make the decision and ANA Ops would have made the call. I can assure you senior management would have been consulted. If the flight was a very light load, which it appears to be the case, it could have been more cost effective to return.


How does that person board/check in? Standard procedure is to scan the passport at check in and then the boarding pass is scanned again at security and in the US and in most countries on international flights ID is checked upon boarding. I would think that someone boarding a flight to NRT without a passport would make no sense.

DBun wrote:
There was an episode of Full House (American Sit-com) Where Stephanie and Michelle accidentally boarded a flight to Auckland (out of SFO) and had to go all the way and back. not at all related to this incident, but made me think of it immediately.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0584117/


I was thinking of that and Home Alone 2 also. How is Kevin allowed to board that plane and the FA simply makes him find an empty seat. I don't care that he crashed into the gate agent it would take about 5 minutes to find his boarding pass.

I remember as a Kid hearing that and thinking he said Oakland. Watched it recently on Netflix and it is obviously Auckland in a Kiwi accent (going there helps).

You know a lot less when you are 10.


The USA doesn't have outbound passport screening, which might have caught this. This should change within the next 4 years.
 
KD5MDK
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:35 pm

sw733 wrote:
I have had the chance to meet her a few times and she's a delightful person. I followed all of her tweets and never found a single one entitled or narcissistic, just funny.

Also, how can one blame her when BBC chose to call it an "ordeal"?

I'm pretty sure she handled it better than a lot of the babies on this website would (not saying you).

I was tempted to make an EQMs joke when I saw the first tweet, but that's more FlyerTalk and would probably mean nothing to her.
I agree she's a great follow and I agree with her about Macarons.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:43 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
The only scenario where turning back made sense was if this passenger was already known to US authorities and was seeking asylum in Japan. I could add something here involving the words "President", "Trump" and "rats leaving sinking ship", but let's keep this on topic. Even so, if this was an escaped con or similar, I suspect arrangements could be made at NRT whereby they were detained, denied entry to Japan, and flown straight back to the US, in handcuffs.


Good luck with that. Japan took in just 28 refugees in 2016, despite record applications,

As for the seat count. 90% of every flight I have taken over the past ten years has been ANA, and they always take a head count. In fact the Japanese are VERY meticulous in their physical count motions.

Regardless, the decision to turn back a loaded 777 to LAX was not a decision taken very likely. And, knowing the Japanese as well as I do, it likely took the entire four hours for management to come to a consensus to turn that plane back. As someone who spent three years in Japan, I can tell you, I've been on committees that would spend three weeks trying to come to a consensus for what color three ring binder a bid proposal should be.

Are all UA flights to NRT out of T7 still? I had a few from IAD to NRT via a UA/ANA codeshare where I went the entire flight on a UA aircraft, land at T7, and had to walk to TBIT to continue on t he rest of the trip to NRT from TBIT. I've also had UA flights land at TBIT, change planes at TBIT and continue to NRT, though both cases had been a couple years back. Truth be told, I prefer the ANA flight crews cause I find them to be more pleasant.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
devron
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:02 am

21pilots wrote:
Often asked myself while walking on the tarmac how easy/difficult it would be to sneak into another Ryanair plane ready for departure without the flight crew noticing.


same here, but i think ryanair does count
 
travaz
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:17 am

I am no expert by any means but I would question why you would have code share flights that leave at the same time from adjoining gates? I always thought code share was to fill in times when Airline XYZ didn't have a flight so Airline ABC would offer more convenience and choices to XYZ's passengers?
 
vpat48
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:20 am

According to NBC nightly news two brothers were on two different flights to Tokyo (I am assuming UA & ANA) and both got on the same flight
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:43 am

vpat48 wrote:
According to NBC nightly news two brothers were on two different flights to Tokyo (I am assuming UA & ANA) and both got on the same flight

That's certainly added a little spice to the mix.
I guess any comment to the effect that I can sympathize with the gate agents because "they probably all look the same" - would instantly result in this post being pulled. :lol: Except the problem with any racism charge is that I have absolutely no idea what nationality these brothers were. I heard a rumor that one was Japanese, and the other came from Texas.....

Did you hear the story of the twin brothers (Jimahl, and Juan) who arrived at an airport security checkpoint? The both had the same initial (J), same date of birth, etc, and consequently their passports were almost identical. The first brother went through the body-scanner ok, so the security agent simply waived the second brother through. When the Head of Security asked why, the operator answered...
"Once you've seen Juan, you've seen Jimahl"
:rotfl:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Airstud
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:26 am

flydude380 wrote:
As a passenger service agent, I seriously can't comprehend how these things happen! I have not read the story. However, I can probably guess a few things that happened.

1. Agents made a mistake by scanning the boarding pass, but did not see that it was not accepted and the pax proceeded onto the aircraft. Or, it could be the agent forgot to scan the boarding pass (it happens!!)

2. Regardless, whether it is a code-share flight, if the boarding pass is not for that flight, the system will pick it up.



Doesn't the scanner make a lower-sounding beep and flash red when the boarding pass doesn't scan properly (as I expect it wouldn't, when scanned for the wrong flight)? And if the gate agent failed to notice this, or chose to ignore it, should he be fired?

I remember something similar to this happened a year ago or so when United allowed a non-English-speaking French woman to travel to SFO when she was actually ticketed for Paris. As with this ANA flight, it boggles the mind that it wasn't caught at the gate, but aboard the SFO flight the problem became apparent again when someone who was ticketed on the SFO flight had the same seat # as the French lady. The F/A simply found an empty seat for her, without bothering to glance at the boarding passes (as I have come to believe is customary at United Airlines, the customer-facing employee avoided spending five seconds to even glance at a remediable issue that common sense says could potentially have a huge negative impact to their customer) and the lady was carried onward to SFO; 3,000 miles and I-don't-know-how-many hours out of her way.

Considering that we've seen this thing happen more than once (these two national news stories, plus the tales above about Houston vs Phoenix or PDX vs. PWM), is it realistic to expect that in the next few years, airline software will be enhanced with a simple script that runs on the computer at the gate, sometime before the door is closed, that double-checks that every bp was scanned correctly? Since it seems possible that there are some airheaded gate agents out there who somehow don't notice or don't care when an incorrect bp is scanned... Seems a whole lot of dough & other airline resources could be saved by an extraordinarily simple script that just checks whether there had been any low-beeps/red-lights - and it would be the responsibility of someone other than the gate agent to check the output of that script.

Edit - or is there already such a script built into the software, meaning we might be facing positively titanic levels of airheadedness by these particular gate agents? :boggled:
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AAlaxfan
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:34 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
vpat48 wrote:
According to NBC nightly news two brothers were on two different flights to Tokyo (I am assuming UA & ANA) and both got on the same flight

That's certainly added a little spice to the mix.
I guess any comment to the effect that I can sympathize with the gate agents because "they probably all look the same" - would instantly result in this post being pulled. :lol: Except the problem with any racism charge is that I have absolutely no idea what nationality these brothers were. I heard a rumor that one was Japanese, and the other came from Texas.....

Did you hear the story of the twin brothers (Jimahl, and Juan) who arrived at an airport security checkpoint? The both had the same initial (J), same date of birth, etc, and consequently their passports were almost identical. The first brother went through the body-scanner ok, so the security agent simply waived the second brother through. When the Head of Security asked why, the operator answered...
"Once you've seen Juan, you've seen Jimahl"
:rotfl:

:rotfl: Best post of the day!
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
travaz
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:15 am

Another thought that comes to mind is that the gate agent was trying to be kind and let the 2 brothers fly together? I am also going to assume that at LAX they are Airline employees and not contractors. So many possibilities I guess that we will just have to wait for the investigation to come out.
 
alasizon
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:27 am

travaz wrote:
Another thought that comes to mind is that the gate agent was trying to be kind and let the 2 brothers fly together? I am also going to assume that at LAX they are Airline employees and not contractors. So many possibilities I guess that we will just have to wait for the investigation to come out.


I believe all of NH is contracted out at LAX but I can't recall if it is Swissport or Menzies.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
BerenErchamion
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:02 am

Blimpie wrote:
knowing the Japanese as well as I do


Yeah, because Japanese people are a monolith and the particular individuals you know are atomistically interchangeable with all the rest.

Seriously, you sound like Frank Burns.
 
barney captain
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:19 am

A manual headcount is done on all WN flights.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Indy
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:22 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
star couple Chrissy Teigen and John Legend (who, and er...who?)


I know it is probably irrelevant to the story but John Legend is a hugely popular singer. He has the hit song All of Me. Chrissy is his wife.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
GriffinGoodman
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:24 am

Hey, just had a quick look and it does not seem to be returning.
 
flydude380
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:33 am

Airstud wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
As a passenger service agent, I seriously can't comprehend how these things happen! I have not read the story. However, I can probably guess a few things that happened.

1. Agents made a mistake by scanning the boarding pass, but did not see that it was not accepted and the pax proceeded onto the aircraft. Or, it could be the agent forgot to scan the boarding pass (it happens!!)

2. Regardless, whether it is a code-share flight, if the boarding pass is not for that flight, the system will pick it up.



Doesn't the scanner make a lower-sounding beep and flash red when the boarding pass doesn't scan properly (as I expect it wouldn't, when scanned for the wrong flight)? And if the gate agent failed to notice this, or chose to ignore it, should he be fired?

I remember something similar to this happened a year ago or so when United allowed a non-English-speaking French woman to travel to SFO when she was actually ticketed for Paris. As with this ANA flight, it boggles the mind that it wasn't caught at the gate, but aboard the SFO flight the problem became apparent again when someone who was ticketed on the SFO flight had the same seat # as the French lady. The F/A simply found an empty seat for her, without bothering to glance at the boarding passes (as I have come to believe is customary at United Airlines, the customer-facing employee avoided spending five seconds to even glance at a remediable issue that common sense says could potentially have a huge negative impact to their customer) and the lady was carried onward to SFO; 3,000 miles and I-don't-know-how-many hours out of her way.

Considering that we've seen this thing happen more than once (these two national news stories, plus the tales above about Houston vs Phoenix or PDX vs. PWM), is it realistic to expect that in the next few years, airline software will be enhanced with a simple script that runs on the computer at the gate, sometime before the door is closed, that double-checks that every bp was scanned correctly? Since it seems possible that there are some airheaded gate agents out there who somehow don't notice or don't care when an incorrect bp is scanned... Seems a whole lot of dough & other airline resources could be saved by an extraordinarily simple script that just checks whether there had been any low-beeps/red-lights - and it would be the responsibility of someone other than the gate agent to check the output of that script.

Edit - or is there already such a script built into the software, meaning we might be facing positively titanic levels of airheadedness by these particular gate agents? :boggled:



It all depends on the type of system being used. So, I can't speak for all systems.

I once came across an elderly Sri Lankan woman who ended up at my airport, when she was supposed to be connecting through LHR for a flight to YYZ. The agents at DUS did not pick it up!!
 
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LOWS
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:41 am

flydude380 wrote:
It all depends on the type of system being used. So, I can't speak for all systems.

I once came across an elderly Sri Lankan woman who ended up at my airport, when she was supposed to be connecting through LHR for a flight to YYZ. The agents at DUS did not pick it up!!


How far off course was she?
 
abrelosojos
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:41 am

Having flown out of LAX twice on NH this month, I am not surprised. Probably, the worst NH station I have experienced.

Saludos,
Alex
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Pellegrine
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:50 am

Blimpie wrote:
Truth be told, I prefer the ANA flight crews cause I find them to be more pleasant.


Most seasoned travelers do over UA.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
skipness1E
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:29 am

RL777 wrote:
Manual count is still sop on almost every regulated airline.

Not in Europe nowadays, was phased out a few years back.
 
ltbewr
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:37 am

I suspect that ANA and their contracted services are going to have a thorough review of this incident as to who and how it happened. Clearly there was a series of procedural failures that shouldn't have happened. I wonder too that the UA ticket pax had figured out a weakness and exploited it. If that is the case, then the UA ticketed pax should face some civil penalty for the turn back of the ANA flight.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:24 pm

Airstud wrote:
[Edit - or is there already such a script built into the software, meaning we might be facing positively titanic levels of airheadedness by these particular gate agents? :boggled:


I believe the systems do already have something like this, but you have to be able to have some sort of manual override. Weird stuff happens and I would say maybe 5% of the time (1 out of 20 ish) flights I have something goes weird with the scanner and they tell me they will have to manually board me, at that point it's either have me wait at the counter or just wave me on and take care of it later when it's less hectic.
 
eruci
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:58 pm

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:54 pm

So, I want to entertain the possibility of this person trying to seek asylum in Japan.

What are the chances that whoever this "unauthorized person" was started ripping up hi/her passport during the middle of the flight? And, if this were to have happened, what would the response and outcome have been?
 
flydude380
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:08 pm

LOWS wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
It all depends on the type of system being used. So, I can't speak for all systems.

I once came across an elderly Sri Lankan woman who ended up at my airport, when she was supposed to be connecting through LHR for a flight to YYZ. The agents at DUS did not pick it up!!


How far off course was she?


She arrived at BHX. I was just about to finish my shift and she approached me stating "Toronto, Toronto". She did not speak a word of English and there was no one who could speak Tamil. So, after close inspection of her boarding passes, I discovered she was supposed to be catching the last AC flight of the day from LHR!!

There was no pointing of putting her on a coach, as it was already 4 pm and the last AC flight out of LHR leaves at 6 pm. So, I called up the airline that messed up, gave em a few good words and persuaded them to transfer her on KLM - as I was due to be working KLM the next day.

I got her a hotel, transport and meal sorted, contacted her family in YYZ etc... Went with her to the hotel to check her in etc.. She did not want me to leave her!! I couldn't sleep that whole night!! When I got to work at 3 am the next day, I called the taxi company to confirm that she had been picked up, checked her in and got her a wheelchair sorted for both BHX and AMS, so she wouldn't get lost.

The whole day I was keeping track of her by bringing up her PNR to see whether she had boarded her flight in AMS.

I then contacted her family in YYZ to confirm she had been picked up. They were very thankful for my efforts :)
 
IndyHoosier
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:35 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:15 pm

flydude380 wrote:
LOWS wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
It all depends on the type of system being used. So, I can't speak for all systems.

I once came across an elderly Sri Lankan woman who ended up at my airport, when she was supposed to be connecting through LHR for a flight to YYZ. The agents at DUS did not pick it up!!


How far off course was she?


She arrived at BHX. I was just about to finish my shift and she approached me stating "Toronto, Toronto". She did not speak a word of English and there was no one who could speak Tamil. So, after close inspection of her boarding passes, I discovered she was supposed to be catching the last AC flight of the day from LHR!!

There was no pointing of putting her on a coach, as it was already 4 pm and the last AC flight out of LHR leaves at 6 pm. So, I called up the airline that messed up, gave em a few good words and persuaded them to transfer her on KLM - as I was due to be working KLM the next day.

I got her a hotel, transport and meal sorted, contacted her family in YYZ etc... Went with her to the hotel to check her in etc.. She did not want me to leave her!! I couldn't sleep that whole night!! When I got to work at 3 am the next day, I called the taxi company to confirm that she had been picked up, checked her in and got her a wheelchair sorted for both BHX and AMS, so she wouldn't get lost.

The whole day I was keeping track of her by bringing up her PNR to see whether she had boarded her flight in AMS.

I then contacted her family in YYZ to confirm she had been picked up. They were very thankful for my efforts :)


That is awesome. You are sound like a great person!
 
sndral
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:24 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:46 pm

I am just an average outsider who pays for my ticket and hopes to arrive at my destination. As such I do not understand the decision to return to LAX rather than sorting it out at the destination.
The stowaway was boarded due to the airline's screw up. He had a ticket to the destination on a different carrier and thus presumably had cleared security & had his passport.
So why cost some 200 paying passengers a day or so of wasted time w/ the 8 hour loop (some news reports state they learned of the mistake early on but had to burn off 8 hr.s of fuel before they could land) plus time on the ground before reboarding and taking off again.
Would all airlines return in this scenario?
 
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gregorous
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:51 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:07 pm

sndral wrote:
I am just an average outsider who pays for my ticket and hopes to arrive at my destination. As such I do not understand the decision to return to LAX rather than sorting it out at the destination.
The stowaway was boarded due to the airline's screw up. He had a ticket to the destination on a different carrier and thus presumably had cleared security & had his passport.
So why cost some 200 paying passengers a day or so of wasted time w/ the 8 hour loop (some news reports state they learned of the mistake early on but had to burn off 8 hr.s of fuel before they could land) plus time on the ground before reboarding and taking off again.
Would all airlines return in this scenario?


IMO it's because he snuck onto the AC so ANA wanted to hand him over to the FBI. Who may be per: http://abcnews.go.com/International/ana ... d=52024185 considering federal charges.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:18 pm

Just a guess but I think this might have to do with APIS messages. APIS messages for all passengers are required for flights to the US and certain flights from the US. Japan is one of the countries that falls under the latter.

In this case, the passenger manifest wouldn't match the APIS messages since there is an incorrectly boarded passenger. I'm sure the airline informed the US and Japanese governments about this and one of them ordered the airline to turn around.
 
ozark1
Posts: 857
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:46 pm

I have never, in 4 decades of flying, been asked or required to do a manual headcount. Sometimes i will help an agent who has come on to count empty seats, but that doesn't happen often.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2393
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:03 pm

I have boarded the wrong flight before - not sure how I made it through but I was supposed to be flying DFW-DTW and in my sleepy 5:30 am daze went to the next gate and walked on. Sat in my seat, had my coat hung and only realized when the pilot said welcome aboard our non stop service to Minneapolis-St. Paul.

For lack of a better phrase, s*** happens.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
MatthewDB
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:00 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:

The USA doesn't have outbound passport screening, which might have caught this. This should change within the next 4 years.


Is this complete speculation or based on something substantiated? I've never understood the point of outbound passport control. The US, UK and Canada don't do this. When a government gives one of its citizens a passport, they're indicating they're OK with them leaving when that citizen desires. What's the point of checking yet again when they leave?
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3569
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:49 am

MatthewDB wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

The USA doesn't have outbound passport screening, which might have caught this. This should change within the next 4 years.


Is this complete speculation or based on something substantiated? I've never understood the point of outbound passport control. The US, UK and Canada don't do this. When a government gives one of its citizens a passport, they're indicating they're OK with them leaving when that citizen desires. What's the point of checking yet again when they leave?


Based on this source: https://loyaltylobby.com/2017/01/28/u-s ... interview/

The idea of outbound control would be to try to catch someone trying to escape the country who shouldn't be leaving. On more than one occasion, someone has been pulled off an outbound plane because (s)he was wanted by authorities in another state or was violating release conditions.
 
Duality
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:36 am

Re: NH175 LAX-NRT returning to LAX due to a passenger being onboard who shouldnt be onboard

Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:51 am

bzcat wrote:
5. Someone working for NH (or whomever does ground handling for NH at LAX) manually boarded the passenger. We don't know if the scanner picked up the problem or it was just ignored but certainly at some point, someone had to look at the boarding pass (probably has UA stock but with HN flight numbers) and said meh... just let him or her on board so we can push back on time..


So more speculation...

I have been at the ticket scanner, when the BP fails a scan. A harried agent may say "Let me get these others passengers on board, I need you to stand over here".

A passenger or two...or twenty...goes by, and the pax decides to self board.

We dont know if ANA was doing multiple manual head counts, or even seat matching, during the 4 hour period.

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