QuawerAir wrote:

Next winter season (on14 Dec 2018 - 13 Jan 2019 and 16 Feb 2019 - 29 Mar 2019), Finnair will be flying to Málaga (AGP) with Airbus A330-300.

company.finnair.com

Only two flight per week during those times.

QuawerAir wrote:

Qatar Airways seems to deploy a wide-body aircraft also to the 2nd flight to HEL (QR308)!

- As of 10 Dec 2018, A350-900 will be flying to HEL (in addition to A330)
- eff 14 Jan 2019, QR will be flying to HEL 2x daily with Airbus A330 (2nd daily flight with A330-200)

No changes to S19 schedule yet, but I expect to see 2x daily wide-body operations also during the summer season.

QR announced also TLL... but no signs yet of the flights

Kikko19 wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

Qatar Airways seems to deploy a wide-body aircraft also to the 2nd flight to HEL (QR308)!

- As of 10 Dec 2018, A350-900 will be flying to HEL (in addition to A330)
- eff 14 Jan 2019, QR will be flying to HEL 2x daily with Airbus A330 (2nd daily flight with A330-200)

No changes to S19 schedule yet, but I expect to see 2x daily wide-body operations also during the summer season.

QR announced also TLL... but no signs yet of the flights

According to loyaltylobby.com, flights are due to commence in 2018/2019 and now 2019 seems more likely.

QuawerAir wrote:

Kikko19 wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

Qatar Airways seems to deploy a wide-body aircraft also to the 2nd flight to HEL (QR308)!

- As of 10 Dec 2018, A350-900 will be flying to HEL (in addition to A330)
- eff 14 Jan 2019, QR will be flying to HEL 2x daily with Airbus A330 (2nd daily flight with A330-200)

No changes to S19 schedule yet, but I expect to see 2x daily wide-body operations also during the summer season.

QR announced also TLL... but no signs yet of the flights

According to loyaltylobby.com, flights are due to commence in 2018/2019 and now 2019 seems more likely.

Knowing the pace QR moves with the execution after their announcements, I wouldn't be holding my breath with this one.

Kikko19 wrote:

QR announced also TLL... but no signs yet of the flights

It took five years from first announcement until the inaugural HEL flight. So your wait is nothing yet.

This sounds great!

China's CAAC on 24OCT18 posted Juneyao Airlines' application for 7 weekly Shanghai Pu Dong – Helsinki service with 787-9, from June 2019

Let's see if the flights will commence some day, finally...

Interesting is that Juneyao Airlines is Star Alliance's connecting partner and they still choose HEL instead of Star Alliance hubs like ARN or CPH.

Airlineroute

- The repair of the damaged A330 aircraft in Chicago will be completed by the end of October.
- The new Los Angeles route is already more popular than San Francisco and is likely going to be launched as a year-round service at some point.
- Finnair will receive one A350 this year and up to four A350s next year, instead of two (however, I'm not sure whether this is an incorrect number).

lentoposti.fi

QuawerAir wrote:

- Finnair will receive one A350 this year and up to four A350s next year, instead of two (however, I'm not sure whether this is an incorrect number).

Lentoposti.fi first gave wrong numbers. A350 #12 arriving in December, next two coming in 2019, the total number 19 ordered.

HELyes wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

- Finnair will receive one A350 this year and up to four A350s next year, instead of two (however, I'm not sure whether this is an incorrect number).

Lentoposti.fi first gave wrong numbers. A350 #12 arriving in December, next two coming in 2019, the total number 19 ordered.

The author of that site never seems to bother to fact check things before publishing. For example just today he wrote in an article about FZ that EK flies the A380 daily to Norway.

From AY’s Q3 report, regarding A330 cabin refresh:

As a part of its normal fleet maintenance operations, Finnair is preparing for a gradual cabin renewal in its current long-haul fleet. This renewal is expected to amount to approximately 200 million euros and focus on years 2020 and 2021.

It can’t happen soon enough. At least they’re now talking about a period of two years instead of three like earlier. Some of their A330s can at times be quite filthy.

Nami wrote:

It can’t happen soon enough.

Their A333 cabins really need a facelift, the contrast to A350 is pretty sharp.

HELyes wrote:

Nami wrote:

It can’t happen soon enough.

Their A333 cabins really need a facelift, the contrast to A350 is pretty sharp.

Yeah the cabin is in a need of refreshing. Hope they do the same what they have on the Raccoons...

QuawerAir wrote:

- The new Los Angeles route is already more popular than San Francisco and is likely going to be launched as a year-round service at some point.

Not surprised at all, bearing in mind the TATL JV and hub at both ends, AA/LAX and AY/HEL. The AY flight opens up many new 1-stop options to OW-FF in the LA area. Always thought that going to SFO before LAX was weird.

It appears that TK’s planned route to RVN in Lapland will actually happen, the most recent info is that the flights will begin in Nov 2019 for the winter season 19-20. No mention of frequencies, probably one or two a week.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10478399

According to check-in, they seem to have the first SK A350 routes, but the article is blocked by pay-wall. Anybody with info?

https://www.check-in.dk/sas-loefter-slo ... 350-ruter/

minilinde wrote:

According to check-in, they seem to have the first SK A350 routes, but the article is blocked by pay-wall. Anybody with info?

https://www.check-in.dk/sas-loefter-slo ... 350-ruter/

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Bostrom wrote:

minilinde wrote:

According to check-in, they seem to have the first SK A350 routes, but the article is blocked by pay-wall. Anybody with info?

https://www.check-in.dk/sas-loefter-slo ... 350-ruter/

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Haha, yea then really no news.. Check-in is getting worse and worse. Only click-bait

Bostrom wrote:

minilinde wrote:

According to check-in, they seem to have the first SK A350 routes, but the article is blocked by pay-wall. Anybody with info?

https://www.check-in.dk/sas-loefter-slo ... 350-ruter/

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Probably SAS will fly them to the U.S (EWR, SFO, LAX etc.) They could be used on Asian flights to NRT, PEK, PVG, HKG as well. I not sure what the loads are though. Additionally, I remember SAS saying that ICN is under their radar.

QuawerAir wrote:

Bostrom wrote:

minilinde wrote:

According to check-in, they seem to have the first SK A350 routes, but the article is blocked by pay-wall. Anybody with info?

https://www.check-in.dk/sas-loefter-slo ... 350-ruter/

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Probably SAS will fly them to the U.S (EWR, SFO, LAX etc.) They could be used on Asian flights to NRT, PEK, PVG, HKG as well. I not sure what the loads are though. Additionally, I remember SAS saying that ICN is under their radar.

My best guess: LAX is not on A350, as it is flown from ARN. A350's will replace A340's, and thus only fly CPH routes.
I'm thinking SFO and NRT, with possibilities from CPH-EWR as well. SFO/NRT are some of the longest routes, and would thus benefit the most from an upgrade. EWR could be a possibility as well, to maximize flight hours.
It will probably fly some ARN-CPH intrascand, and shorter European flights first though, for crew familiarization, as they did with the A330/A340 introduction.

I was in HEL a few years ago and I remember the airport being very small, especially the check-in area. Have they build an additional terminal or have they expanded the facilities?

One of the things I hated the most were the low ceilings, it felt like being in an underground.

QuawerAir wrote:

Bostrom wrote:

minilinde wrote:

According to check-in, they seem to have the first SK A350 routes, but the article is blocked by pay-wall. Anybody with info?

https://www.check-in.dk/sas-loefter-slo ... 350-ruter/

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Probably SAS will fly them to the U.S (EWR, SFO, LAX etc.) They could be used on Asian flights to NRT, PEK, PVG, HKG as well. I not sure what the loads are though. Additionally, I remember SAS saying that ICN is under their radar.

Sorry if I come across as rude, but your reply doesn’t say much as you have mentioned all of SAS long haul routes. Not much of a guess when mentioning all the possible destinations.

As already said, will most likely be based at CPH and fly the longest routes (SFO, NRT, HKG, PVG).

B747forever wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

Bostrom wrote:

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Probably SAS will fly them to the U.S (EWR, SFO, LAX etc.) They could be used on Asian flights to NRT, PEK, PVG, HKG as well. I not sure what the loads are though. Additionally, I remember SAS saying that ICN is under their radar.

Sorry if I come across as rude, but your reply doesn’t say much as you have mentioned all of SAS long haul routes. Not much of a guess when mentioning all the possible destinations.

As already said, will most likely be based at CPH and fly the longest routes (SFO, NRT, HKG, PVG).

According to the ACI, Hong Kong is the biggest cargo hub in the world in terms of total tonnage handled. While SK is relatively new on the route, it wouldn't surprise me if this became one of the first A350 destinations for the airline.

B747forever wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

Bostrom wrote:

"”Det bliver på ruter, hvor vi flyver langt, med høj belægning og meget cargo,” siger koncerndriftsdirektør i SAS, Lars Sandahl Sørensen, til CHECK-IN.dk."

So, long routes with high loads and a lot of cargo. Not very surprising, but no more information than that.

Probably SAS will fly them to the U.S (EWR, SFO, LAX etc.) They could be used on Asian flights to NRT, PEK, PVG, HKG as well. I not sure what the loads are though. Additionally, I remember SAS saying that ICN is under their radar.

Sorry if I come across as rude, but your reply doesn’t say much as you have mentioned all of SAS long haul routes. Not much of a guess when mentioning all the possible destinations.

As already said, will most likely be based at CPH and fly the longest routes (SFO, NRT, HKG, PVG).

True But, I think most likely new A350 destinations will be those you mentioned + LAX and EWR.

Blerg wrote:

I was in HEL a few years ago and I remember the airport being very small, especially the check-in area. Have they build an additional terminal or have they expanded the facilities?

One of the things I hated the most were the low ceilings, it felt like being in an underground.

Sounds you were in T1 that mainly serves SK and LH, used to be a domestic terminal originally. T2 is the main terminal. HEL is going through an extensive expansion project, the 1 billion Euro development program began in 2014, by around 2022 the terminal area has expanded 45%.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/about-finavia ... -programme

QuawerAir wrote:

True But, I think most likely new A350 destinations will be those you mentioned + LAX and EWR.

Not LAX, as its a ARN routes

The Winter 2018 Schedule sees the following KLM operations for Scandinavia:

1. Aalborg:
- KLM increases capacity per flight but reduces frequency, due to slot limitations at AMS.
- 2x daily KLM B737 (new type) + daily 1x E190 replace 3x Cityhopper E190 and 1x E175 frequencies.

2. Alesund:
- remains 1x daily E175

3. Bergen:
- Capacity increases on 4x daily service: 2x daily B737, plus 2x daily Cityhopper E190 replace 2x E175.

4. Billund:
- Capacity increases on 5x daily service, as 3x daily KLM B737 plus 2x daily Cityhopper E190 replace 2x daily B737 and 3x daily E190.

5. Copenhagen:
- Frequency increases from 6x daily to 7x daily: 4x B737 and 3x E190/E175

6. Gothenburg:
- remains 2x daily B737 and 3x daily E190/E175.

7. Helsinki:
- remains 3x daily B737 and 1x daily E190.

8. Kristiansand:
- remains 2x daily E190/E175

9. Linkoping:
- remains 3x daily E190/E175

10. Oslo:
- Capacity increases to 4x daily B737 and 1x daily E190/E175, from 3x B737 and 2x E190/E175.

11. Sandefjord/Torp:
- remains 2x daily E175

12. Stavanger:
- Decrease to 2x daily B737 and 2x daily E190/E175 from 3x B737 and 1x E190/E175 last winter.

13. Stockholm:
- remains 5x daily B737 and 1x daily E190

14. Trondheim:
- remains 2x daily E190

15. Vaxjo = NEW ROUTE in W18
- 5x weekly E175 (daily ex.Tue & Sat)

HELyes wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I was in HEL a few years ago and I remember the airport being very small, especially the check-in area. Have they build an additional terminal or have they expanded the facilities?

One of the things I hated the most were the low ceilings, it felt like being in an underground.

Sounds you were in T1 that mainly serves SK and LH, used to be a domestic terminal originally. T2 is the main terminal. HEL is going through an extensive expansion project, the 1 billion Euro development program began in 2014, by around 2022 the terminal area has expanded 45%.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/about-finavia ... -programme

Yes, I flew in from FRA and flew out to MUC, both times on Lufthansa. Thanks for the explanation, makes perfect sense.

Blerg wrote:

HELyes wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I was in HEL a few years ago and I remember the airport being very small, especially the check-in area. Have they build an additional terminal or have they expanded the facilities?

One of the things I hated the most were the low ceilings, it felt like being in an underground.

Sounds you were in T1 that mainly serves SK and LH, used to be a domestic terminal originally. T2 is the main terminal. HEL is going through an extensive expansion project, the 1 billion Euro development program began in 2014, by around 2022 the terminal area has expanded 45%.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/about-finavia ... -programme

Yes, I flew in from FRA and flew out to MUC, both times on Lufthansa. Thanks for the explanation, makes perfect sense.

Although these days the distinction is a bit of a blur. You can have Finnair departures from gate 15 (which is terminal 1) and LH departures from gate 27 (terminal 2), the check-in happens at corresponding terminals even though the actual departure may be from a different terminal. Actually I am not sure where the "border" between the terminals even is ? Gate 20 ?

kruiseri wrote:

Blerg wrote:

HELyes wrote:

Sounds you were in T1 that mainly serves SK and LH, used to be a domestic terminal originally. T2 is the main terminal. HEL is going through an extensive expansion project, the 1 billion Euro development program began in 2014, by around 2022 the terminal area has expanded 45%.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/about-finavia ... -programme

Yes, I flew in from FRA and flew out to MUC, both times on Lufthansa. Thanks for the explanation, makes perfect sense.

Although these days the distinction is a bit of a blur. You can have Finnair departures from gate 15 (which is terminal 1) and LH departures from gate 27 (terminal 2), the check-in happens at corresponding terminals even though the actual departure may be from a different terminal. Actually I am not sure where the "border" between the terminals even is ? Gate 20 ?

There is a small bend after the gate 15 towards T2. I think the "border" is there.

Last night Aeroflot inaugurated their new service on Moscow-Gothenburg! The flight is now served daily onboard the Sukhoi SU9, and very well timed for Asian and domestic connections!

SU2180 SVO-GOT (21:15-21:50) Daily SU9
SU2181 GOT-SVO (00:20-04:45) Daily SU9

cityairline wrote:

Last night Aeroflot inaugurated their new service on Moscow-Gothenburg! The flight is now served daily onboard the Sukhoi SU9, and very well timed for Asian and domestic connections!

SU2180 SVO-GOT (21:15-21:50) Daily SU9
SU2181 GOT-SVO (00:20-04:45) Daily SU9

I guess there is no O&D market since they are offering only these times which are, anyway, standard European times for connecting passengers. SVO-GOT is actually quite decent. I guess their main competitors are SK and AY.

This will most likely be a charter for a group with a specific reason to travel. I wouldn't consider it to suggest any future plans on YUL-CPH

Air Canada plans to serve Copenhagen from Montreal on a one-time basis in Sep 2019

AC886 YUL2115 – 0955+1CPH 77W 11SEP19
AC887 CPH1215 – 1340YUL 77W 23SEP19

Routesonline

Could we see direct Montréal-Copenhagen service in the future? If not YUL, then Vancouver is another option as it's in the list of planned new long-haul destinations from CPH.

(my reply got deleted)

QuawerAir wrote:

Air Canada plans to serve Copenhagen from Montreal on a one-time basis in Sep 2019

AC886 YUL2115 – 0955+1CPH 77W 11SEP19
AC887 CPH1215 – 1340YUL 77W 23SEP19

Routesonline

Could we see direct Montréal-Copenhagen service in the future? If not YUL, then Vancouver is another option as it's in the list of planned new long-haul destinations from CPH.

(my reply got deleted)

So this is instead of AC882/883 (YYZ), on the specific dates?

minilinde wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

Air Canada plans to serve Copenhagen from Montreal on a one-time basis in Sep 2019

AC886 YUL2115 – 0955+1CPH 77W 11SEP19
AC887 CPH1215 – 1340YUL 77W 23SEP19

Routesonline

Could we see direct Montréal-Copenhagen service in the future? If not YUL, then Vancouver is another option as it's in the list of planned new long-haul destinations from CPH.

(my reply got deleted)

So this is instead of AC882/883 (YYZ), on the specific dates?

Routesonline doesn't say anything about Toronto-route so probably they will both be flown on those dates.

QuawerAir wrote:

minilinde wrote:

QuawerAir wrote:

Air Canada plans to serve Copenhagen from Montreal on a one-time basis in Sep 2019

Routesonline

Could we see direct Montréal-Copenhagen service in the future? If not YUL, then Vancouver is another option as it's in the list of planned new long-haul destinations from CPH.

(my reply got deleted)

So this is instead of AC882/883 (YYZ), on the specific dates?

Routesonline doesn't say anything about Toronto-route so probably they will both be flown on those dates.

AC882/883 are not available for booking those days.

For some reason, talouselama.fi writes "Chinese Lucky Air begins flights to Finland in January as the first Chinese airline" while referring to an article published in September 2017. Why do they say Lucky Air will launch flights in the past?

In regard to AY's North American expansion to the West Coast; will we see them jump into other markets before Norwegian's planned HEL long-haul plans start around 2020?

Finnair adds Bologna (3x weekly), Porto (2x weekly) and Bordeaux (2x weekly) in S19, discontinues Pula and Biarritz.

Lentoposti

Blerg wrote:

HELyes wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I was in HEL a few years ago and I remember the airport being very small, especially the check-in area. Have they build an additional terminal or have they expanded the facilities?

One of the things I hated the most were the low ceilings, it felt like being in an underground.

Sounds you were in T1 that mainly serves SK and LH, used to be a domestic terminal originally. T2 is the main terminal. HEL is going through an extensive expansion project, the 1 billion Euro development program began in 2014, by around 2022 the terminal area has expanded 45%.

https://www.finavia.fi/en/about-finavia ... -programme

Yes, I flew in from FRA and flew out to MUC, both times on Lufthansa. Thanks for the explanation, makes perfect sense.

Unfortunately the ongoing expansion and renovation work will have little to no effect to the existing airside of T1, and the extension they're building to it will be a bare-bones narrow tube with no commercial spaces or jet bridges as it's mostly meant for turboprops. I guess you could say that the gates there will probably be as liked as the infamous Gate 19 (or whatever they're called these days) at Gardermoen.

I'm not claustrophobic, but my main gripe with the T2/non-Schengen side of the expansion is that they're continuing with the theme of low ceilings even there. I would have liked to see a much more open design. However, at least the new departure and arrival halls look quite nice.

tkoenig95 wrote:

In regard to AY's North American expansion to the West Coast; will we see them jump into other markets before Norwegian's planned HEL long-haul plans start around 2020?

For now AY will most likely try to evaluate whether SFO and LAX could work year-round. I'm quite certain Norwegian's Dreamliners won't be seen at HEL for years to come, if ever. That is, unless they want to lose even more money. It makes much more sense to funnel the limited market through LGW, ARN and CPH.

BLQ should become double daily and all year.

Loganair will start

Edinburgh - Bergen ( EDI - BGO ) 3 times a week from 9th of May 2019

Edinburgh - Stavanger ( EDI - SVG ) 4 times a week from 10th of May 2019

https://www.loganair.co.uk/new-routes-edinburgh/

I read through several headlines at CAPA and I noticed some interesting ones:

- Finnair to open new Asia routes every year through 2020 (24-Sep-2013)
- Finnair aiming to double its number of Asian destinations by 2020 (11-Oct-2013)

So far Finnair has opened a new destination in Asia (or converted a charter service to scheduled one) every year:

2013: Xi'an and Hanoi
2014: Krabi and Phuket
2015: Ho Chi Minh City
2016: Guangzhou and Fukuoka
2017: Goa
2018: Nanjing
2019: none (so far)

Would it be possible that Finnair will open new Asian destination in W19? It could be a totally new destination or an old one. For example, Mumbai, Colombo, Langkawi, Denpasar (Bali) or Cebu.

The aim of doubling the number of Asian destinations by 2020 seems impossible at the moment since they should have 26 destinations by 2020 and now they have around 20 destinations.

QuawerAir wrote:

I read through several headlines at CAPA and I noticed some interesting ones:

- Finnair to open new Asia routes every year through 2020 (24-Sep-2013)
- Finnair aiming to double its number of Asian destinations by 2020 (11-Oct-2013)

So far Finnair has opened a new destination in Asia (or converted a charter service to scheduled one) every year:

2013: Xi'an and Hanoi
2014: Krabi and Phuket
2015: Ho Chi Minh City
2016: Guangzhou and Fukuoka
2017: Goa
2018: Nanjing
2019: none (so far)

Would it be possible that Finnair will open new Asian destination in W19? It could be a totally new destination or an old one. For example, Mumbai, Colombo, Langkawi, Denpasar (Bali) or Cebu.

The aim of doubling the number of Asian destinations by 2020 seems impossible at the moment since they should have 26 destinations by 2020 and now they have around 20 destinations.

Rumors are that it's going to be CTS

AY growth in Asia is limited by the fact that they really only have one connection bank at HEL, the afternoon (1500-1700) window. Yes, they do have "one way banks" in the morning and late night, but those banks cannot be used efficiently for 24hr rotation which is the basis for AY strategy. At the moment the traffic flows as following:

Morning: Some arrivals from Asia (such as SIN) that connect to European destination. These flights depart HEL between 0700-0900 in the morning and gain additional load from Finnish/Baltic clients making their way to Europe.

Afternoon: The flights that left for Europe in the morning return and connect with the 24hr rotation flights to/from Asia. This is where the Asia action mainly takes place. Now you have good loads on all planes to/from Asia/Europe.

Evening: The flights that left for Europe return with Finnish/Baltic businessmen/tourists and limited connections to Asia (such as SIN).

Now it is easy to see, that continuing growth with this bank setup has its limits. You have practically the entire fleet (with some exceptions) at HEL during the afternoon rush hour, not counting morning/evening European flights otherwise HEL is pretty calm. If you want to establish another similar all way connection bank say 4-6 hours earlier or later you run into problems filling the European planes both ways. No Finnish/Baltic customer wants to fly to Europe at 2 AM (and there are curfews that make this impossible) which would be required in order to have the planes return with Asian connections to HEL around 11 AM. You would need to have Asian arrivals too at that time. And to make that work you need a lot of more planes. Making the bank 4-6 hrs later causes a a similar problem of no one wanting to return to Finland/Baltics in the middle of the night so unless there are again some Asian connections at that time it won't work.

I didn’t see this being mentioned earlier so here goes. Finnair celebrated its 95th birthday yesterday 1st of November. Happy Birthday Finnair! And ~10K donated to good cause.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Finnair/stat ... gr%5Etweet

kruiseri wrote:

AY growth in Asia is limited by the fact that they really only have one connection bank at HEL, the afternoon (1500-1700) window. Yes, they do have "one way banks" in the morning and late night, but those banks cannot be used efficiently for 24hr rotation which is the basis for AY strategy. At the moment the traffic flows as following:

Morning: Some arrivals from Asia (such as SIN) that connect to European destination. These flights depart HEL between 0700-0900 in the morning and gain additional load from Finnish/Baltic clients making their way to Europe.

Afternoon: The flights that left for Europe in the morning return and connect with the 24hr rotation flights to/from Asia. This is where the Asia action mainly takes place. Now you have good loads on all planes to/from Asia/Europe.

Evening: The flights that left for Europe return with Finnish/Baltic businessmen/tourists and limited connections to Asia (such as SIN).

Now it is easy to see, that continuing growth with this bank setup has its limits. You have practically the entire fleet (with some exceptions) at HEL during the afternoon rush hour, not counting morning/evening European flights otherwise HEL is pretty calm. If you want to establish another similar all way connection bank say 4-6 hours earlier or later you run into problems filling the European planes both ways. No Finnish/Baltic customer wants to fly to Europe at 2 AM (and there are curfews that make this impossible) which would be required in order to have the planes return with Asian connections to HEL around 11 AM. You would need to have Asian arrivals too at that time. And to make that work you need a lot of more planes. Making the bank 4-6 hrs later causes a a similar problem of no one wanting to return to Finland/Baltics in the middle of the night so unless there are again some Asian connections at that time it won't work.

You are challenging all amateur CEO's with your post. Here are my thoughts.

First, why does it limit, i.e. what is the bottleneck? Is it that the airport is congested, short haul planes are insufficient, passengers need different schedules or slot-availability in other destinations? (I have thought that that hardest limits for expansion are political, but future may be different.)

The one-way banks in the morning / midnight would be used for beyond 24h rotation destinations (currently like Singapore, Hong Kong, Hanoi, future e.g. Kuala Lumpur, Manila, ... ). The daytime use of the widebodies may pose a challenge. They could be used for leisure flights to Canary Islands or normal short haul flights to Central Europe, where demand exceeds the slots and cargo is important (LHR, BRU currently only?). Scheduled maintenance would also be done and extra idle hours give leeway for problem recovery.

Other daytime departures for Asian destinations may be scheduled for destinations that mostly attract local or Scandinavian passengers. That is Thailand and other tourist markets.

They could make a night bank around 3 am as there is no full curfew in HEL, only noise restrictions. That would suit some Asian destinations at their origin (not all) and in Europe would optimize the short haul fleet that could return from Central European destinations late night and arrive there early morning, avoiding overnight idle time of hardware. Nevertheless, that might make sense only for the major destinations that warrant more than two daily flights and would otherwise have an overnight at the destination. Are there many/any?

Sub-24h Asian routes - mainly inland China - could arrive at noon and depart early evening, with a short haul bank between (mostly Scandinavia, though). Beyond 24h destinations might use those banks, too, with the same hardware for opposite directions, but the connections would be limited to North Europe (2h flight time) and possibly Spain (where the plane has an overnight stay at destination) - or would require a longer connection time, possibly staying overnight (some might even prefer that for time accommodation, but most not).
Would that help, optimise or allow any rotation of the long haul hardware with North American destinations? North America - Russia/India rotations might naturally be scheduled around noon, but do they have or plan such banks at all?

Certainly it is challenging to schedule flights so that they fill the demands for local O&D traffic and connecting traffic. Twice a day short haul banks for Central Europe fit well the Finnish business travellers - not so well foreign business travellers opting for a one day visit in Finland - and connecting traffic. Some tuning may be done with the morning/night banks.

YIMBY wrote:

You are challenging all amateur CEO's with your post. Here are my thoughts.

First, why does it limit, i.e. what is the bottleneck? Is it that the airport is congested, short haul planes are insufficient, passengers need different schedules or slot-availability in other destinations? (I have thought that that hardest limits for expansion are political, but future may be different.)

The one-way banks in the morning / midnight would be used for beyond 24h rotation destinations (currently like Singapore, Hong Kong, Hanoi, future e.g. Kuala Lumpur, Manila, ... ). The daytime use of the widebodies may pose a challenge. They could be used for leisure flights to Canary Islands or normal short haul flights to Central Europe, where demand exceeds the slots and cargo is important (LHR, BRU currently only?). Scheduled maintenance would also be done and extra idle hours give leeway for problem recovery.

Other daytime departures for Asian destinations may be scheduled for destinations that mostly attract local or Scandinavian passengers. That is Thailand and other tourist markets.

They could make a night bank around 3 am as there is no full curfew in HEL, only noise restrictions. That would suit some Asian destinations at their origin (not all) and in Europe would optimize the short haul fleet that could return from Central European destinations late night and arrive there early morning, avoiding overnight idle time of hardware. Nevertheless, that might make sense only for the major destinations that warrant more than two daily flights and would otherwise have an overnight at the destination. Are there many/any?

Sub-24h Asian routes - mainly inland China - could arrive at noon and depart early evening, with a short haul bank between (mostly Scandinavia, though). Beyond 24h destinations might use those banks, too, with the same hardware for opposite directions, but the connections would be limited to North Europe (2h flight time) and possibly Spain (where the plane has an overnight stay at destination) - or would require a longer connection time, possibly staying overnight (some might even prefer that for time accommodation, but most not).
Would that help, optimise or allow any rotation of the long haul hardware with North American destinations? North America - Russia/India rotations might naturally be scheduled around noon, but do they have or plan such banks at all?

Certainly it is challenging to schedule flights so that they fill the demands for local O&D traffic and connecting traffic. Twice a day short haul banks for Central Europe fit well the Finnish business travellers - not so well foreign business travellers opting for a one day visit in Finland - and connecting traffic. Some tuning may be done with the morning/night banks.

The first bottleneck is gates. There will be new gates available in 2020 when the west pier is completed, but that really only pushes the problem forward. Next bottleneck will be in security, immigration, baggage claim/handling capacities etc.

Sure you can setup another bank at say 3 AM, but that would have to rely solely on connecting traffic as no O/D to/from HEL would want to travel at that time, particularly since there is an option that does not involve boarding in the middle of the night. Also you would initially need to assign at least 4-5 widebodies and 10-15 narrowbodies on that bank to make it take off.

The beyond 24hr rotations make poor aircraft utilization, the plane needs to sit at HKG/SIN etc for hours, and once it gets back to HEL in the morning it has nowhere to go, except LHR which seems to work for one plane.

Blerg wrote:

cityairline wrote:

Last night Aeroflot inaugurated their new service on Moscow-Gothenburg! The flight is now served daily onboard the Sukhoi SU9, and very well timed for Asian and domestic connections!

SU2180 SVO-GOT (21:15-21:50) Daily SU9
SU2181 GOT-SVO (00:20-04:45) Daily SU9

I guess there is no O&D market since they are offering only these times which are, anyway, standard European times for connecting passengers. SVO-GOT is actually quite decent. I guess their main competitors are SK and AY.

Actually, surprising or not, so far about 50-60% of the passengers have been O/D.

kruiseri wrote:

Sure you can setup another bank at say 3 AM, but that would have to rely solely on connecting traffic as no O/D to/from HEL would want to travel at that time, particularly since there is an option that does not involve boarding in the middle of the night. Also you would initially need to assign at least 4-5 widebodies and 10-15 narrowbodies on that bank to make it take off.

Of course there will be O/D traffic if the price is right. Many passengers want to take the very cheapest option - some are even obliged to take (like university professors) - and there are always passengers who only can reach the late night flight and do not want to stay the extra night at the destination (which may cost 200 €). It may not be commercially viable, though, if it cannibalizes other flights.

You are right that it can hardly be started gradually, though 3 widebodies and 5 narrowbodies might be enough to start.

(For pax, it would be better if the other wave - whatever time - is started by an airline group competing with AY. You may not even need a massive base at HEL, just a consolidated effort by some Asian and European airlines, though it is probably too complicated to arrange. )

Any news on how is it doing the recently launched DY service from OSL/ARN and CPH to Krabi?

I find it surprising QR launching TLL. Would it be reachable on A320? That sounds kind of more realistic...