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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:54 pm

compensateme wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DTW-IAH is getting the Atmosphere cabin starting January 3rd


Meh, it’s still a CR9, which means no shoulder room. I’ll stick with UA and their E75...


I refuse to fly UA....
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:03 pm

compensateme wrote:
Per the latest OAG thread, AA rescinded its decision to drop the third MIA flight during the winter months. That’s good news but also an interesting move, given tickets are available for less than OW$100 most days.

And in the move I’d least suspect, BWI is going to just three peak day flights, each operated by the MD-90, this winter. Man, it seems just like yesterday NW was operating the route 7x on peak days, 8x during the summer.


Yep a major market like that and only 3 daily. But keep in mind with the 7 or 8 daily Detroit was handling most of the BWI now with the major capacity shift they are moving most everything over Atlanta. I was thinking that with the EWR, BWI and BOS reductions that their might be rumblings that NK is going to start fly from DTW to BWI and EWR. Hopefully NK will pick up the pace a bit. Would be nice to see them think out of the box and add DTW-LGW would be a gold mine for them being they have market recognition here in Detroit.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:41 am

NK already does DTW-BWI.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:41 am

compensateme wrote:
Per the latest OAG thread, AA rescinded its decision to drop the third MIA flight during the winter months. That’s good news but also an interesting move, given tickets are available for less than OW$100 most days.

And in the move I’d least suspect, BWI is going to just three peak day flights, each operated by the MD-90, this winter. Man, it seems just like yesterday NW was operating the route 7x on peak days, 8x during the summer.

Yeah the DL reduction on DTW-BWI is pretty crazy. Last year during deep winter it was 4x (1x 738 + 3x 739) and now for this year in Jan & Feb its loaded now as 3x MD-90.
The even crazier part is the schedule DTW-BWI departures at 7:10am, 12:30pm, 4:51pm. BWI-DTW departures at 9:52am, 1:15pm, 7:17pm. The last departure at 4:51pm, and nothing from the 8pm or 10pm departure bank??? No 6am departure from BWI where every other market on the East coast has a morning launch flight to DTW? Its almost as if this is an error. I wonder if they intended to have the RON flight move over to DCI on a 2-class RJ and it didn't get loaded this week.

That said, I travel to BWI a few times a year for work and actually did last week. The 10:10pm departure on Wed night only had about 50 people on an MD-90. Heck there was open seats in F.

FWIW, NK & WN both fly the route. DL returns to 5x daily MD-90 in March on the route.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:52 am

Wouldn't be surprised if NK doubles down on BWI. The market showed nice growth last year, no reason to let that go to waste.
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winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:31 pm

klm617 wrote:
Would be nice to see them think out of the box and add DTW-LGW would be a gold mine for them being they have market recognition here in Detroit.


Alright I'll bite.

By what logic would LGW be a 'gold mine' for anyone from virtually anywhere besides heavy UK PoS leisure destinations like LAS or MCO? With the exception of a few DI outliers like BOS, ORD, and SEA, LGW is dominated by leisure, and that's the reason that no US carrier serves the airport (they also have to maximize volume through their extremely expensive LHR slots). I don't follow the logic.
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:05 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Would be nice to see them think out of the box and add DTW-LGW would be a gold mine for them being they have market recognition here in Detroit.


Alright I'll bite.

By what logic would LGW be a 'gold mine' for anyone from virtually anywhere besides heavy UK PoS leisure destinations like LAS or MCO? With the exception of a few DI outliers like BOS, ORD, and SEA, LGW is dominated by leisure, and that's the reason that no US carrier serves the airport (they also have to maximize volume through their extremely expensive LHR slots). I don't follow the logic.


First of all NK is an airline that stimulates traffic when it enters a market so that being said Detroit is big enough to support an LCC carrying passengers at the low end of the far scale on a narrow body to LGW. NK doesn't have the cost structure as the UIS3 so it can offer fares at a lower price to stimulate the Detroit London market. So again this comes under the heading of making destinations affordable to those who wouldn't ordinarily go the due to the Delta flights being cost prohibitive in the summer. While every says that Detroit has enough TATL capacity that may be true on the high end of the fare scale but on the low end it's greatly lacking in nonstop capacity for price sensitive travelers and please don't say there are already enough cheap fares out of Detroit but let's use that same argument for ORD, BOS, and New York there is already enough cheap fares in those market also so there is no need to add flights there either. So on the low end I think NK could do well out of DTW to Europe to places that are within range of a single aisle aircraft with less than daily service. Again people I think fail to realize the leakage from Michigan to ORD, YQG, and YYZ on the low end of the price scale something NK could off and bring those people back to Detroit not to mention traffic from northern OH and South Western ONT.. Just because no one flies it doesn't mean it won't work.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:13 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Would be nice to see them think out of the box and add DTW-LGW would be a gold mine for them being they have market recognition here in Detroit.


Alright I'll bite.

By what logic would LGW be a 'gold mine' for anyone from virtually anywhere besides heavy UK PoS leisure destinations like LAS or MCO? With the exception of a few DI outliers like BOS, ORD, and SEA, LGW is dominated by leisure, and that's the reason that no US carrier serves the airport (they also have to maximize volume through their extremely expensive LHR slots). I don't follow the logic.


First of all NK is an airline that stimulates traffic when it enters a market so that being said Detroit is big enough to support an LCC carrying passengers at the low end of the far scale on a narrow body to LGW. NK doesn't have the cost structure as the UIS3 so it can offer fares at a lower price to stimulate the Detroit London market. So again this comes under the heading of making destinations affordable to those who wouldn't ordinarily go the due to the Delta flights being cost prohibitive in the summer. While every says that Detroit has enough TATL capacity that may be true on the high end of the fare scale but on the low end it's greatly lacking in nonstop capacity for price sensitive travelers and please don't say there are already enough cheap fares out of Detroit but let's use that same argument for ORD, BOS, and New York there is already enough cheap fares in those market also so there is no need to add flights there either. So on the low end I think NK could do well out of DTW to Europe to places that are within range of a single aisle aircraft with less than daily service. Again people I think fail to realize the leakage from Michigan to ORD, YQG, and YYZ on the low end of the price scale something NK could off and bring those people back to Detroit not to mention traffic from northern OH and South Western ONT.. Just because no one flies it doesn't mean it won't work.


Ah. Didn't realize you were referring to NK pioneering their TATL endeavors out of DTW. Have they publicly stated any intention to eventually move into the TATL space a la B6? I might have missed it. Do they have any ETOPS aircraft that would even be permitted to fly such a route?
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:40 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

Alright I'll bite.

By what logic would LGW be a 'gold mine' for anyone from virtually anywhere besides heavy UK PoS leisure destinations like LAS or MCO? With the exception of a few DI outliers like BOS, ORD, and SEA, LGW is dominated by leisure, and that's the reason that no US carrier serves the airport (they also have to maximize volume through their extremely expensive LHR slots). I don't follow the logic.


First of all NK is an airline that stimulates traffic when it enters a market so that being said Detroit is big enough to support an LCC carrying passengers at the low end of the far scale on a narrow body to LGW. NK doesn't have the cost structure as the UIS3 so it can offer fares at a lower price to stimulate the Detroit London market. So again this comes under the heading of making destinations affordable to those who wouldn't ordinarily go the due to the Delta flights being cost prohibitive in the summer. While every says that Detroit has enough TATL capacity that may be true on the high end of the fare scale but on the low end it's greatly lacking in nonstop capacity for price sensitive travelers and please don't say there are already enough cheap fares out of Detroit but let's use that same argument for ORD, BOS, and New York there is already enough cheap fares in those market also so there is no need to add flights there either. So on the low end I think NK could do well out of DTW to Europe to places that are within range of a single aisle aircraft with less than daily service. Again people I think fail to realize the leakage from Michigan to ORD, YQG, and YYZ on the low end of the price scale something NK could off and bring those people back to Detroit not to mention traffic from northern OH and South Western ONT.. Just because no one flies it doesn't mean it won't work.


Ah. Didn't realize you were referring to NK pioneering their TATL endeavors out of DTW. Have they publicly stated any intention to eventually move into the TATL space a la B6? I might have missed it. Do they have any ETOPS aircraft that would even be permitted to fly such a route?


I never said they had intentions what I said was it would be nice.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:16 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

Alright I'll bite.

By what logic would LGW be a 'gold mine' for anyone from virtually anywhere besides heavy UK PoS leisure destinations like LAS or MCO? With the exception of a few DI outliers like BOS, ORD, and SEA, LGW is dominated by leisure, and that's the reason that no US carrier serves the airport (they also have to maximize volume through their extremely expensive LHR slots). I don't follow the logic.


First of all NK is an airline that stimulates traffic when it enters a market so that being said Detroit is big enough to support an LCC carrying passengers at the low end of the far scale on a narrow body to LGW. NK doesn't have the cost structure as the UIS3 so it can offer fares at a lower price to stimulate the Detroit London market. So again this comes under the heading of making destinations affordable to those who wouldn't ordinarily go the due to the Delta flights being cost prohibitive in the summer. While every says that Detroit has enough TATL capacity that may be true on the high end of the fare scale but on the low end it's greatly lacking in nonstop capacity for price sensitive travelers and please don't say there are already enough cheap fares out of Detroit but let's use that same argument for ORD, BOS, and New York there is already enough cheap fares in those market also so there is no need to add flights there either. So on the low end I think NK could do well out of DTW to Europe to places that are within range of a single aisle aircraft with less than daily service. Again people I think fail to realize the leakage from Michigan to ORD, YQG, and YYZ on the low end of the price scale something NK could off and bring those people back to Detroit not to mention traffic from northern OH and South Western ONT.. Just because no one flies it doesn't mean it won't work.


Ah. Didn't realize you were referring to NK pioneering their TATL endeavors out of DTW. Have they publicly stated any intention to eventually move into the TATL space a la B6? I might have missed it. Do they have any ETOPS aircraft that would even be permitted to fly such a route?


Would be nice though if they decide to go this way for them to chose DTW as they have brand recognition here plus the playing field is pretty much open there is only WOW and for them everything is over KEF NK could go nonstop.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:22 pm

klm617 wrote:
Would be nice though if they decide to go this way for them to chose DTW as they have brand recognition here plus the playing field is pretty much open there is only WOW and for them everything is over KEF NK could go nonstop.


Given the fleet considerations and apparent lack of interest from NK to date to go TATL, it seems as though Norwegian would be a more realistic target no? Even if NK wanted to go TATL it wouldn't be for years based on how long it's taking B6 to spool up.
 
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:28 pm

Who here likes surprises? ;)
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:14 pm

jetlanta wrote:
Who here likes surprises? ;)



This guy loves surprises ;-)
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:20 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Would be nice though if they decide to go this way for them to chose DTW as they have brand recognition here plus the playing field is pretty much open there is only WOW and for them everything is over KEF NK could go nonstop.


Given the fleet considerations and apparent lack of interest from NK to date to go TATL, it seems as though Norwegian would be a more realistic target no? Even if NK wanted to go TATL it wouldn't be for years based on how long it's taking B6 to spool up.



The thing with DY is number one they have to be sold on the idea that Detroit is viable to the operation where as NK is already a powerhouse in this market as far as low coast travel. Also DY's life span could be very short just like WOW's where NK gives a bit of stability that they will be around in 5 years from now. So NK would be better but a lot less likely so again anything is better than nothing so while DY is much more likely to add Detroit NK would be a much better option over the long haul.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:11 pm

NK has no ETOPS certified aircraft and no ETOPS program, so keep dreaming of NK TATL ambitions for the time-being.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:29 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Would be nice though if they decide to go this way for them to chose DTW as they have brand recognition here plus the playing field is pretty much open there is only WOW and for them everything is over KEF NK could go nonstop.


Given the fleet considerations and apparent lack of interest from NK to date to go TATL, it seems as though Norwegian would be a more realistic target no? Even if NK wanted to go TATL it wouldn't be for years based on how long it's taking B6 to spool up.



The thing with DY is number one they have to be sold on the idea that Detroit is viable to the operation where as NK is already a powerhouse in this market as far as low coast travel. Also DY's life span could be very short just like WOW's where NK gives a bit of stability that they will be around in 5 years from now. So NK would be better but a lot less likely so again anything is better than nothing so while DY is much more likely to add Detroit NK would be a much better option over the long haul.

None of this matters because of one thing: NK does not fly TATL; DY does. In fact, NK will not fly TATL in the foreseeable future for the same reason you'd prefer them: they have an established model and they're stable, so they have no motivation to risk it on the TATL mess.
DY, on the other hand, is in the TATL market and bleeding money.
"You know, if you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything, wouldn't you, at any time? And you would achieve nothing!" - Margaret Thatcher
 
jetlanta
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:40 pm

klm617 wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Who here likes surprises? ;)



This guy loves surprises ;-)



Remember this moment the next time you doubt me. ;) Stay tuned...
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:46 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NK has no ETOPS certified aircraft and no ETOPS program, so keep dreaming of NK TATL ambitions for the time-being.


I realize it's not going to happen in my lifetime. But was stating it is viable just not in the cards for NK
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:05 am

most of those DTW-BWI back in the NW days were on 757's too. I always worked the 5pm which was packed to the gills. Ceding the market only confuses more about Delta's future goals for DTW.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:13 am

jetlanta wrote:
klm617 wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Who here likes surprises? ;)



This guy loves surprises ;-)



Remember this moment the next time you doubt me. ;) Stay tuned...


I never doubt anyone I just disagree sometimes but it doesn't mean I don't respect you.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:57 am

I like data. So there is some interesting insights that can be derived from current year-to-date data for DTW.
The following is compiled from 2018 enplanement data from the WCAA:

Enplanements % Change YOY
Jan 1,210,885 -0.9%
Feb 1,177,863 -1.7%
Mar 1,531,911 1.8%
Apr 1,421,253 1.8%
May 1,541,626 1.1%
Jun 1,606,965 3.1%
July 1,651,636 5.0%
2018 YTD 10,142,139 1.6%

YOY enplanements in Jan & Feb where behind 2017, but the months since have all seen more robost increases. A lot is a function of seasonality, plus also net-new service additions that were effective spring and summer 2018. Summer was very strong. It will be interesting to see how this trends into Q4 for YOY comps.
 
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:06 am

Enplanements by Marketing Carrier (e.g,. all regional data aggregated up to the mainline operator):

(Sorry, I which I could paste an image of a table that displays the data better, can't figure out the forum tools)

Airline (Brand Carrier)
" Enplanements 2018 YTD "
" Enplanements 2017 YTD "
" % YOY Change
" % of Total 2018 YTD "
" % of Total 2017 YTD "
Delta 7,359,389 7,349,772 0.1% 72.0% 73.0%
Spirit 998,349 863,612 15.6% 9.8% 8.6%
American 610,847 652,080 -6.3% 6.0% 6.5%
Southwest 483,158 496,069 -2.6% 4.7% 4.9%
United 359,631 317,894 13.1% 3.5% 3.2%
Frontier 88,296 111,697 -21.0% 0.9% 1.1%
JetBlue 83,310 84,103 -0.9% 0.8% 0.8%
Alaska 63,356 42,125 50.4% 0.6% 0.4%
Lufthansa 56,042 48,787 14.9% 0.5% 0.5%
Air France 44,476 43,551 2.1% 0.4% 0.4%
AeroMexico 28,833 12,669 127.6% 0.3% 0.1%
Air Canada 26,353 23,876 10.4% 0.3% 0.2%
WOW 9,691 - 100.0% 0.1% 0.0%
Royal Jordanian 7,918 7,365 7.5% 0.1% 0.1%
Virgin Atlantic - 8,733 -100.0% 0.0% 0.1%
Miscellaneous - 2,396 -100.0% 0.0% 0.0%
Grand Total 10,219,649 10,064,729 1.5% 100.0% 100.0%


- DL is up 0.1% YOY, but share is down 1%
- NK is up 15.6%, with share up 1.2%
- AA is down 6.3% with share down 0.5%
- WN is down 2.6% with share down 0.2%
- UA is up 13.6% with share up 0.3%

The "Top 5" make up 96% of total enplanements in the DTW market.
 
hjulicher
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:16 am

Lufthansa 56,042 48,787 14.9% 0.5% 0.5%
Air France 44,476 43,551 2.1% 0.4% 0.4%
Air Canada 26,353 23,876 10.4% 0.3% 0.2%
WOW 9,691 - 100.0% 0.1% 0.0%
RJordanian 7,918 7,365 7.5% 0.1% 0.1%
AeroMexico 28,833 12,669 127.6% 0.3% 0.1%

I think these numbers show an interesting story, and one in that international traffic is significantly up. Since LH, AF, DL, WW, AM all added capacity, this has significantly added to the amount of international passengers at DTW. This type of growth bodes very well and should in all cases be shown by the WCAA to any prospective airlines at the next Routes convention. Based on this growth, the WCAA should be actively pursuing new airlines and existing ones to add services to DTW as this shows that the market is able to absorb capacity growth.

I think that in regards to what has been said in this forum, the value add of KLM serving DTW would help DTW is attracting more international attention since more foreign carriers would be flying to DTW. Even though the JV doesn't differentiate between KLM and DL, worldwide, airlines look at the number of carriers serving a market. The more airlines that serve and airport, the more attention other airlines give to that airport. Thus, having KLM service to DTW would help DTW in garnering more attention. It always helps if DTW can say, "we have 7 Foreign carriers at DTW" as opposed to 6. If that number were to grow even more, I'm sure more airlines would take a look at DTW.
Detroit Moves the World!
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:55 am

hjulicher wrote:
Lufthansa 56,042 48,787 14.9% 0.5% 0.5%
Air France 44,476 43,551 2.1% 0.4% 0.4%
Air Canada 26,353 23,876 10.4% 0.3% 0.2%
WOW 9,691 - 100.0% 0.1% 0.0%
RJordanian 7,918 7,365 7.5% 0.1% 0.1%
AeroMexico 28,833 12,669 127.6% 0.3% 0.1%

I think these numbers show an interesting story, and one in that international traffic is significantly up. Since LH, AF, DL, WW, AM all added capacity, this has significantly added to the amount of international passengers at DTW. This type of growth bodes very well and should in all cases be shown by the WCAA to any prospective airlines at the next Routes convention. Based on this growth, the WCAA should be actively pursuing new airlines and existing ones to add services to DTW as this shows that the market is able to absorb capacity growth.

I think that in regards to what has been said in this forum, the value add of KLM serving DTW would help DTW is attracting more international attention since more foreign carriers would be flying to DTW. Even though the JV doesn't differentiate between KLM and DL, worldwide, airlines look at the number of carriers serving a market. The more airlines that serve and airport, the more attention other airlines give to that airport. Thus, having KLM service to DTW would help DTW in garnering more attention. It always helps if DTW can say, "we have 7 Foreign carriers at DTW" as opposed to 6. If that number were to grow even more, I'm sure more airlines would take a look at DTW.



It's interesting to note how many more passengers WW has carried than RJ. Yes and these numbers back up what I have been saying bring the service here and DTW can fill the planes. Granted I'm not talking about wide bodies to all four corners of the globe but the market could use a flight or two on a narrow body and be instantly successful.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:55 pm

jetlanta wrote:
Who here likes surprises? ;)

Is something big about to be announced?
DL? NK? EK?

Also is DTW that reliable in the winter?
Was considering DL IND-DTW-DEN versus WN IND-DEN for January but stopping adds a concern.
UA DL LH NW AA WN
Do not go gentle into that good night ...
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dmt52
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:14 pm

Go Green! Go White!
 
 
dmt52
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:15 pm

Go Green! Go White!
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:15 pm

dmt52 wrote:


Great!!! The article also mentioned London Heathrow flights being added from DTW.
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:58 pm

jetlanta wrote:


That was a very nice surprise thank you for making my day.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:00 pm

So let's talk about the double daily to LHR. Where might the 4 extra LHR slots come from and could going double daily mean the return of VS to the Detroit market ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:01 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Who here likes surprises? ;)

Is something big about to be announced?
DL? NK? EK?

Also is DTW that reliable in the winter?
Was considering DL IND-DTW-DEN versus WN IND-DEN for January but stopping adds a concern.


Detroit is one of the best all weather airports as far as reliability.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jetlanta
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:32 pm

klm617 wrote:
jetlanta wrote:


That was a very nice surprise thank you for making my day.


Aloha!
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 374
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:28 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Who here likes surprises? ;)

Is something big about to be announced?
DL? NK? EK?

Also is DTW that reliable in the winter?
Was considering DL IND-DTW-DEN versus WN IND-DEN for January but stopping adds a concern.

Yeah, DTW is reliable. Miles above the likes of
the Chicago and New York airports.
That said, nonstop is probably more reliable. It's one less variable in the equation.
"You know, if you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything, wouldn't you, at any time? And you would achieve nothing!" - Margaret Thatcher
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:54 pm

Cool add, that came a bit out of left-field. DTW-HNL hasn't been around since the DC-10s were retired.

I wonder if the 76W is going to remain on the ground from 6am until noon an turn back to HNL, or if it will route in/out from elsewhere.
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:59 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Cool add, that came a bit out of left-field. DTW-HNL hasn't been around since the DC-10s were retired.

I wonder if the 76W is going to remain on the ground from 6am until noon an turn back to HNL, or if it will route in/out from elsewhere.


Be nice if it does a domestic turn out west at the 8 am bank. But where would it come from to do the noon departure. So my guess is 6 hours on the ground. If I'm not mistaken they did it last with an A330 when we split the route with MSP but I could be wrong.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:55 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Cool add, that came a bit out of left-field. DTW-HNL hasn't been around since the DC-10s were retired.

I wonder if the 76W is going to remain on the ground from 6am until noon an turn back to HNL, or if it will route in/out from elsewhere.


DL operates DTW-HNL with the 333 circa 2010. It lasted less than a year, rotating with MSP.

And the aircraft will likely remain grounded - even if it left for MCO at 7AM, it wouldn’t be scheduled to arrive until 2PM. Unless DL puts it on a JFK or ATL flight, which is unlikely (although they did so with GRU, but it would’ve sat much longer).

And this is at least the fourth attempt DL’s going to try double daily LHR service.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:37 pm

The beginning of 2017 was a lot different than now.

2017 top 5 in the 50 US:
-Santa Ana/Orange County
-San Jose, CA
-Sacramento, CA
-Anchorage, AK
-Honolulu, HI

2018 top 5:
-Sacramento, CA
-Anchorage, AK at a very close 2nd
-El Paso, TX
-Tuscon, AZ
-Albuquerque, NM
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:44 pm

It’s crazy what’s been going on with DTW-LHR
2014: DL goes up to two daily during the summer.
2015: Virgin takes over the second flight and has 4-5 flights for the winter 2015-2017 season; (on top of daily DL).
2017-2018: DL takes over the second flight, back to seasonal only. And only x3 extra weekly by winter if 2017. (Follows through until this announcement.)
2019: DL back to x2 daily for the summer.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:47 pm

WW came in and is doing well with London. DL probably thinks they won't win WOW passengers so take as many premium pax away to deter BA. Either way, the IAG will be here by 2020 whether it's on EI to DUB, BA to LHR, or Level to BCN or LGW.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:09 pm

I would be really dumbfounded if EI weren’t here by 2021. Unless they somehow manage to add PVD, BDL, ATL, BNA, PIT, CLE, CMH, CVG, IND, MKE (but they already serve ORD x2 tikes a day) MCI, STL and not DTW.
 
N292UX
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:58 pm

Well that was somewhat unexpected. Great to see nonetheless.
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:10 pm

BenflysDTW wrote:
I would be really dumbfounded if EI weren’t here by 2021. Unless they somehow manage to add PVD, BDL, ATL, BNA, PIT, CLE, CMH, CVG, IND, MKE (but they already serve ORD x2 tikes a day) MCI, STL and not DTW.



If there are not here in 2020 there is something seriously wrong with the process that is being used to attract new entrants the numbers prove that there is room for international growth in Detroit..
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:25 pm

compensateme wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Cool add, that came a bit out of left-field. DTW-HNL hasn't been around since the DC-10s were retired.

I wonder if the 76W is going to remain on the ground from 6am until noon an turn back to HNL, or if it will route in/out from elsewhere.


DL operates DTW-HNL with the 333 circa 2010. It lasted less than a year, rotating with MSP.

And the aircraft will likely remain grounded - even if it left for MCO at 7AM, it wouldn’t be scheduled to arrive until 2PM. Unless DL puts it on a JFK or ATL flight, which is unlikely (although they did so with GRU, but it would’ve sat much longer).

And this is at least the fourth attempt DL’s going to try double daily LHR service.


Maybe a very quick DTW-MSP-DTW run?
 
kavok
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:14 am

flymco753 wrote:
WW came in and is doing well with London. DL probably thinks they won't win WOW passengers so take as many premium pax away to deter BA. Either way, the IAG will be here by 2020 whether it's on EI to DUB, BA to LHR, or Level to BCN or LGW.



I think this is a very good observation. DL probably also realizes that EI starting DTW-DUB is inevitable, but by DL adding a second LHR frequency, it might be enough to discourage IAG from considering BA on DTW-LHR as well. To be honest, I still think DTW is a ways down BA's wish list. Because DL fiercely defends their hubs, I could see BA adding STL, MCI, and even IND, CMH before DTW. I am more curious if DL will add DTW-DUB in response, assuming EI adds the route in 2020.

Anyway, a couple curiosities I have about the double daily DTW-LHR announcement:
1. Where is DL getting the other portion of the LHR slot from? I thought DTW and PDX essentially shared a LHR slot. If DTW is going up to full 2x daily from DTW, does that mean the PDX-LHR flight is not returning, or is the other part of the slot coming from somewhere else?

2. If the slot is coming from someone (VS?) else.... does that mean there is another half weekly service slot available from LHR? And if so, which airport is the other lucky recipient of half weekly flights to LHR?
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:44 am

kavok wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
WW came in and is doing well with London. DL probably thinks they won't win WOW passengers so take as many premium pax away to deter BA. Either way, the IAG will be here by 2020 whether it's on EI to DUB, BA to LHR, or Level to BCN or LGW.



I think this is a very good observation. DL probably also realizes that EI starting DTW-DUB is inevitable, but by DL adding a second LHR frequency, it might be enough to discourage IAG from considering BA on DTW-LHR as well. To be honest, I still think DTW is a ways down BA's wish list. Because DL fiercely defends their hubs, I could see BA adding STL, MCI, and even IND, CMH before DTW. I am more curious if DL will add DTW-DUB in response, assuming EI adds the route in 2020.

Anyway, a couple curiosities I have about the double daily DTW-LHR announcement:
1. Where is DL getting the other portion of the LHR slot from? I thought DTW and PDX essentially shared a LHR slot. If DTW is going up to full 2x daily from DTW, does that mean the PDX-LHR flight is not returning, or is the other part of the slot coming from somewhere else?

2. If the slot is coming from someone (VS?) else.... does that mean there is another half weekly service slot available from LHR? And if so, which airport is the other lucky recipient of half weekly flights to LHR?


The thing about BA is is that they bring nothing into the Detroit market that it doesn't already have. There are so many more convenient options out of Detroit than connecting at London Heathrow so a flight would have to be based on mainly O/D traffic and would be on a wide body aircraft and they can't beat Delta here in Detroit. EI brings so much more into the Detroit market and they can do it with a narrow body so there is a lot less risk for EI to come into the Detroit market plus they can link up all of the UK with onestop at a not so complicated and congested airport.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:04 am

I have to agree with klm617 on this. What DTW could need is VS back. I think that x3 flights a day on legacy carriers is overkill. Maybe down the road.
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:13 am

Cadillac is moving back to Warren from NYC:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep. ... 1434144002
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:17 am

klm617 wrote:
Be nice if it does a domestic turn out west at the 8 am bank. But where would it come from to do the noon departure. So my guess is 6 hours on the ground. If I'm not mistaken they did it last with an A330 when we split the route with MSP but I could be wrong.

Yeah, its either a 6 hour sit or in theory it could do a something like turn to MSP or ATL, but there would have to be an inbound 76W to arrive in time to cover the outbound DTW-HNL departure at noon. A330 RON / RADs are more common in DTW, as outside of peak summer there is typically an A330 that has about a 20 hour sit in DTW, typically one of the inbound TATL A330s doesn't turn back that evening and sits around until the next day/afternoon as a spare and time for scheduled maintenance. 767s don't typically have extended ground time in DTW, at least not to-date.

compensateme wrote:
DL operates DTW-HNL with the 333 circa 2010. It lasted less than a year, rotating with MSP.

You are right. That 3x weekly service was so brief it slipped my memory. And that was just coming out of the recession / burning the furniture era in Southeast Michigan.

BenflysDTW wrote:
Cadillac is moving back to Warren from NYC:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep. ... 1434144002

That doesn't mean much of anything other than stupid planning a few years ago. It was a figurehead move at best.
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:11 pm

BenflysDTW wrote:
Cadillac is moving back to Warren from NYC:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep. ... 1434144002


Excellent news indeed that they are moving back to Michigan.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...

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