Midwestfly
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:44 pm

what are we thinking about 5% chance WOW flys me to Berlin in July from Detroit?
 
NCAD95
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:31 am

More good news for the region.

Available industrial space is tighter than ever in Southeast Michigan, according to market monitor CBRE. The Detroit area's industrial vacancy rates have been around 2 percent this year, and fell to an all-time low in the third quarter, CBRE reported

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-esta ... motive-hub
 
seanpmassey
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:29 pm

Any word on when CBP will be adding Mobile Passport app to DTW? Passed through DTW on my way back from London yesterday, and it would have been nice to use the app instead of having to use the computers.
 
michman
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:50 am

seanpmassey wrote:
Any word on when CBP will be adding Mobile Passport app to DTW? Passed through DTW on my way back from London yesterday, and it would have been nice to use the app instead of having to use the computers.


There's always Global Entry and Nexus. Nexus is super-cheap at only $50. Yes, you'll have to go Detroit and come up with an excuse why you need to go Canada on occasion. It's not that hard.
 
reasonable
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:27 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:17 pm

It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?
 
NCAD95
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:14 pm

reasonable wrote:
It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?



Why do you find that bizarre ?
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:41 pm

reasonable wrote:
It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?


While I wouldn’t be surprised to see WOW exit the market any day now (for no other reason than the poo pop show they’ve put on recently), DTW was the largest market in the country without low cost Atlantic service. Consider MSP, a much smaller Atlantic market, just landed its third LCC.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
User avatar
Runway28L
Posts: 1733
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:01 pm

michman wrote:
seanpmassey wrote:
Any word on when CBP will be adding Mobile Passport app to DTW? Passed through DTW on my way back from London yesterday, and it would have been nice to use the app instead of having to use the computers.


There's always Global Entry and Nexus. Nexus is super-cheap at only $50. Yes, you'll have to go Detroit and come up with an excuse why you need to go Canada on occasion. It's not that hard.

Mobile Passport is completely free though. You also have to go through a background check and an interview to obtain Global Entry. While it isn't too difficult (along with being rewarded some nice perks), it does take several weeks for the process to go through. Some just find it more convenient to download a free app and fill out your info to have ready.

Global Entry is more for those that travel a lot internationally. Mobile is for the average traveller that just wants to skip the kiosks.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
sumeetc2
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:15 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Does anyone have load factors for Wow? Since they are soon to pull out of DTW service.
 
sumeetc2
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:15 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:56 pm

Does anyone have load factors for Wow?
 
reasonable
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:27 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:23 am

NCAD95 wrote:
reasonable wrote:
It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?



Why do you find that bizarre ?


Only because they're dropping everything else, and I would expect the same at DTW.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1360
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:08 am

reasonable wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
reasonable wrote:
It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?



Why do you find that bizarre ?


Only because they're dropping everything else, and I would expect the same at DTW.

I remember someone posting some loads of the WW flights. They were kind of all over the place. Some were pretty strong. Others were fairly weak.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4009
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:58 am

lavalampluva wrote:
reasonable wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:


Why do you find that bizarre ?


Only because they're dropping everything else, and I would expect the same at DTW.

I remember someone posting some loads of the WW flights. They were kind of all over the place. Some were pretty strong. Others were fairly weak.


May
DTW-KEF
SEATS---PASSENGERS---LOAD FACTOR
3960---2903---73.3%

KEF-DTW
SEATS---PASSENGERS---LOAD FACTOR
3740---2268---60.6%

June
KEF-DTW
SEATS---PASSENGERS---LOAD FACTOR
3740---3091---82.6%

DTW-KEF
SEATS---PASSENGERS---LOAD FACTOR
3740---3079---82.3%
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
NCAD95
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:43 pm

reasonable wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
reasonable wrote:
It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?



Why do you find that bizarre ?


Only because they're dropping everything else, and I would expect the same at DTW.


But keep in mind everything they dropped were either highly competitive markets or markets where they could not do same day turns. DTW has pricing power for them being they are the only one catering to the sector of the market plus they can do one hour same day turns as DTW is not a congested airport prone to delays.
 
winginit
Posts: 2542
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:56 pm

reasonable wrote:
It's bizarre to me that WOW is holding on to DTW. Are they proving the market enough to entice Icelandair to DTW after WOW collapses?


The stage length of DTWKEF allows for same-day turns whereas that's not the case with many of the US routes they've cut.

Edit: NCAD95 beat me to it, but :checkmark:
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:14 am

I expect HNL to be discontinued as scheduled in September of 2019. There is no possible way, unless there's a significant amount of money coming from somewhere, that this route will survive with one-way fares in the mid $300 range...on a 767, it's not possible!

I don't expect GDL to last either. Almost 6 hours on an E190 is not safe, nor is it economical. It would have made twice more sense for this to be on a 737. This is a money pile being poured on with gasoline, AM will light the match the day the route begins.

Positively, looks like SJC is doing decently, not good enough for daily yet, but it's doing much better than I thought. SMF is still a little premature to determine anything, but seats are being purchased, so it's not in the dark. BZN flights are ridiculously priced and already full, I couldn't imagine these flights not being payload optimized.

If you want to know how suppressed JAX used to be, look at the schedule this coming April. 3x A320 with 2 by DL and 1 by NK. I think PBI could be twice daily in the summer and SRQ could at least be daily. But you know DL won't do anything unless someone else goes in daily on SRQ. They didn't bother flinching when NK announced PBI.

I guess in my rambling and incoherent rant, the things we can take away for 2019 is that HNL will be gone for DL, GDL will be gone for AM. Where else is AM going to go? Nowhere, there's nowhere else to go. DL will probably keep doing some Southeast upgrades to places like Charleston, Greensboro, and Savannah, however I'd like to see some more BZN type thinking with BOI or JAC, even ABQ. I don't see DL announcing anything international. NK will probably add some stuff. F9 probably wont. WN seems to be in withdrawal mood. UA and AA are keeping the status quo. WOW will stay. EI could probably announce. Any way you look at it, 2019 is going to be very predictable.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
Seat1F
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:41 am

flymco753 wrote:
I don't expect GDL to last either. Almost 6 hours on an E190 is not safe, nor is it economical. It would have made twice more sense for this to be on a 737. This is a money pile being poured on with gasoline, AM will light the match the day the route begins..


Who knows how this flight will do. However, there is no way this flight is going to be 6 hours actual flying time. That's an exageration. I expect it to be a flying time of 4 hours 30 minutes to 5 hours. Heck, DTW to MTY is only about 3 hours 30 minutes wheels up to wheels down.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Here's a structured idea of what to probably expect in 2019 each will start with bad news and go to better news:

International- DL may end GRU completely after this winter. GDL and SLP won't last for AM, the only exception is GDL on a 737, if they don't switch it, it's done. I see EI announcing summer 2020 plans on the A321LR, WOW will stay. NK would probably add PUJ. WS should take over YOW and add 1 Canadian destination in cooperation with the JV, YHZ perhaps?

Domestic- HNL won't return after next summer, change my mind. I see DL ending more CRJ routes that are in the higher risk category of at risk service. I don't think ORH will ever come to fruition. DL will probably add something on Saturdays to bridge the CS aircraft to the west coast, I think BOI, JAC, GEG, ABQ, something around those lines. NK will obviously keep expanding their powerful footprint on DTW.

That's about it, I'm not 100% confident that B6 will add JFK because the slots would be hard to come around. DTW's case though is much stronger than MSP & CLE which both have multiple carriers and almost twice lower yields. After making a QSI guess, it would make sense for them to do it, it'll come down to slots. MCO is automatically ruled out until our new C terminal is done, until then, void. Nowhere else for B6 to go. Same goes for AS. They're done.

I think outside of what F9 does now, they're done adding anything here. They have found their niche here. Granted, I think we all know that they could do more, but this is NK's market. Nearly everything F9 is doing is trying not to step on NK's toes. I also still think there's room for Allegiant to places that TOL and FNT couldn't necessarily support like CHS, SAV, and VPS. SY isn't likely, nearly anything they'd add would be a bloodbath between DL and NK already. LAX needs another legacy, not another low cost.

Unless DL adds ORD-LAX, AA will never add LAX. UA is done. Southwest is in withdrawal mode, but it seems like everything they run now is fine, I don't see any additions.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:29 pm

It appears WW's continued DTW service is causing a lot of heartburn. Some a.net threads not even acknowledging such service exists.

Is WW returning all planes? I read plan is to keep 11xA320s. Who knows, if yields are better than other routes, they may continue the service.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2642
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:07 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Southwest is in withdrawal mode, but it seems like everything they run now is fine, I don't see any additions.


WN could add DTW-HOU nonstop service since HOU is one of the top domestic destinations traveled to from DTW that doesn't currently have nonstop service from DTW. WN also would be able to offer connections to international destinations in Mexico and Central America that aren't served nonstop from DTW on NK if WN adds HOU-DTW nonstop service.

WN could also add seasonal DTW-OAK nonstop service since there is a lot of demand between DTW and OAK during the summer travel season. WN is also much bigger than NK is in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there are also many travelers in the San Francisco Bay area who prefer to fly on WN over NK.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2642
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:15 pm

flymco753 wrote:
That's about it, I'm not 100% confident that B6 will add JFK because the slots would be hard to come around. DTW's case though is much stronger than MSP & CLE which both have multiple carriers and almost twice lower yields. After making a QSI guess, it would make sense for them to do it, it'll come down to slots. MCO is automatically ruled out until our new C terminal is done, until then, void. Nowhere else for B6 to go.


CLE-JFK might be a viable add for B6 since there are currently no LCC's or ULCC's serving NYC nonstop from CLE and since DL or AA doesn't have a hub on the CLE end of the route. On the other hand, JFK is served nonstop from MSP on SY in addition to DL, and DL also has hubs on both the MSP and JFK ends of the route.

While DL is currently the only airline to serve JFK nonstop from DTW, NK does serve LGA nonstop from DTW and DL's DTW-JFK nonstops are in competition with NK's DTW-LGA nonstops. I think that B6 might be able to make DTW-JFK work since none of DL's competitors currently serve DTW nonstop from JFK and since there are many travelers on both ends of the DTW-NYC route who will avoid NK.
 
DTWorld
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:34 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:28 pm

Runway28L wrote:
michman wrote:
seanpmassey wrote:
Any word on when CBP will be adding Mobile Passport app to DTW? Passed through DTW on my way back from London yesterday, and it would have been nice to use the app instead of having to use the computers.


There's always Global Entry and Nexus. Nexus is super-cheap at only $50. Yes, you'll have to go to Detroit and come up with an excuse why you need to go to Canada on occasion. It's not that hard.

Mobile Passport is completely free though. You also have to go through a background check and an interview to obtain Global Entry. While it isn't too difficult (along with being rewarded some nice perks), it does take several weeks for the process to go through. Some just find it more convenient to download a free app and fill out your info to have ready.

Global Entry is more for those that travel a lot internationally. Mobile is for the average traveler that just wants to skip the kiosks.


I have been hearing we'll be getting mobile passport soon. After talking with some of the CBP officers, the general consensus is that they all hate it and dread the day it eventually arrives on the property. Having gone through customs in DTW several times, I hate it how they seem to have the entrance for global entry more or less converge with those who visited the APC kiosks and have a whole row of booths sitting abandoned on one side. That and it's smack dab in front of the exit from A40 which is barely 20 feet away, which seems like a big safety hazard. The agents there know it as they appear visibly more stressed when a flight is coming in from there. During busier times of the day like 12-3pm it becomes a mosh pit, and when you have a flight coming in from A38/A40 at the time, be prepared to be yelled at as there's barely enough room to move and everyone either doesn't understand, or too many of them play twenty questions at the worst possible location.

In other news, have any of you seen what they're doing to the main sky club by A38? They ripped out that huge desk upstairs and the fireplaces for the sake of having more seating and moving everything downstairs in an area that is way too small to efficiently handle the afternoon/evening rushes. I dread what it's going to be like later in the winter when some nasty weather inevitably rolls through and delays a bunch of flights.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:59 pm

jplatts wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Southwest is in withdrawal mode, but it seems like everything they run now is fine, I don't see any additions.


WN could add DTW-HOU nonstop service since HOU is one of the top domestic destinations traveled to from DTW that doesn't currently have nonstop service from DTW. WN also would be able to offer connections to international destinations in Mexico and Central America that aren't served nonstop from DTW on NK if WN adds HOU-DTW nonstop service.

WN could also add seasonal DTW-OAK nonstop service since there is a lot of demand between DTW and OAK during the summer travel season. WN is also much bigger than NK is in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there are also many travelers in the San Francisco Bay area who prefer to fly on WN over NK.
Trust me, I'd love to see HOU on WN, but I'd also like to see a daily MCO flight (perhaps for selfish reasons). I've always thought WN would be the one to add DTW-ABQ, but ever since DL added BZN, it became more evident who would be the one to add it.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
sumeetc2
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:15 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:19 am

If the GDL service with the E190 were to end, could Volaris pick the frequency with the a320?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:33 am

Yeah, I forgot to mention the main SkyClub renovations that started a few weeks ago, my post on another forum from last week:

Currently in the DTW main SkyClub and its a hot mess, even more so that typical for a Thursday evening.

I noticed the tarps up last week, and they already removed all the partions on the south side of the main clubs and tarps are up around all the partions on the north side of the club from the escalators.
The best way I can describe it is they are going for the "open concept" club and basically looks like a sea of humanity, more crowded than gate areas and now you get to hear everyones phone calls and conversations in the club. The furniture is super-crammed in too.

There is a sign that says MORE SEATS MORE COMFORT (lol). Re-imaged check-in experience and additional seating coming soon. I assume they are changing this from the legacy NW-Worldclub decor to the latest and greatest Delta SkyClub Ikea look.

I assume for now its a work in-process and hopefully the end product turns out better than this hot mess now.

---
Either way, I'm done flying out of DTW at least for the another month. This past week I flew out of FNT and its such a great, simple, easy access experience. The current project I'm doing work has me going somewhere that I have to connect in either ATL or MSP; thus the FNT-ATL-xxx is the easiest way for me to go. FNT is a breath of fresh air and the passengers on FNT-ATL, particularly on a Monday morning are far less DYKWIA than the DTW flights.

Its also the holidays and I'm off for the next two weeks and will enjoy the fact I'm not on the road again until 1/7.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:43 pm

sumeetc2 wrote:
If the GDL service with the E190 were to end, could Volaris pick the frequency with the a320?
Nope. The only way I see Volaris picking this up is if the service works out and Volaris can push AM out since GDL is very VFR and very low yielding which is good for Y4. If this service doesn't survive for at least the summer, it would be very hard for anyone to justify flying the route. AM obviously feels like they can stimulate VFR that would normally drive to Chicago to catch a nonstop. We will see in the Spring.

I think something to talk about is the viability of DTW-ABQ. Per DOT Table 6 data in Q2 2018, an average of 90 passengers completed round rip segments between DTW and ABQ. This translates to a 45 PDEW. From 2017, the growth trend will suggest that nearly 116 or 58 passengers have flown between the two cities in Q3 2018 which would be up from 2014, up from 2015, up from 2016, and up from 2017.

I think that a once daily and summer seasonal flight would be a valuable add for DL on the CS1/A220.. This aircraft's purpose is going to be to serve long and thin, which this route fits that category. The aircraft could turn out of ABQ to either SEA, LAX or even back to MSP, this shouldn't affect MSP or ATL's current ABQ service at once daily on a thin aircraft during the summer. Plus it makes an opportunity for MSP to capitalize on this route more if the aircraft is turned DTW-ABQ-MSP and the return aircraft doing MSP-ABQ-DTW in the evening. At least, I think this would be better than adding a flight to BOI which is thinner, but growing. GEG is stagnant, and I don't think DL would want to deploy such aircraft to low yielding Reno. Tuscon would be a year round situation on a 738 or A320.

I've been creating graphs on Excel to see where these different markets are going. I'm fascinated by the Detroit market because it has a story. MCO to me is a hard market to analyze, so I invest more time in analyzing Detroit routes.

Markets I want to note are BNA, GSP, and AUS. BNA grew over 150 passengers between Q1 2017 to Q1 2018, my forecasts are showing in the next 3 years, BNA will easily fall into one of Detroit's largest markets. It's already in the top 15. Austin is growing at a slightly faster pace, but the amount of passengers between the two cities are less than Nashville, but it'll be a similar situation. RDU is flat, BDL is only up by nearly 100 from 2014. GSP grew nearly 75 passengers between 2014 and 2018. When creating trendlines, data from more than 12 months makes things sloppier, so my growth lines are Q2 17 through Q2 18. I expect good news regarding Q3 18. Even markets like GSO and CHS are growing at a healthy rate. Sun belt cities seem to be where most growth is consistent (ie SoCal, Arizona, and Texas).
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:48 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
---
Either way, I'm done flying out of DTW at least for the another month. This past week I flew out of FNT and its such a great, simple, easy access experience. The current project I'm doing work has me going somewhere that I have to connect in either ATL or MSP; thus the FNT-ATL-xxx is the easiest way for me to go. FNT is a breath of fresh air and the passengers on FNT-ATL, particularly on a Monday morning are far less DYKWIA than the DTW flights.

Its also the holidays and I'm off for the next two weeks and will enjoy the fact I'm not on the road again until 1/7.


I haven't flown out of DTW in over a year and only once in the past 18 months since AA started CLT from TOL. A lot of it has to do with what you said above - it's just easier and less of a pain. While I'm connecting out of TOL, the time it takes to get to DTW, park, and get to a gate, it's all a wash. And since AA upguaged to a CR7, I've been able to upgrade as a low tier elite fairly easily. I like DTW a lot, but haven't missed it up there lately.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:28 pm

flymco753 wrote:
sumeetc2 wrote:
I think something to talk about is the viability of DTW-ABQ. Per DOT Table 6 data in Q2 2018, an average of 90 passengers completed round rip segments between DTW and ABQ. This translates to a 45 PDEW. From 2017, the growth trend will suggest that nearly 116 or 58 passengers have flown between the two cities in Q3 2018 which would be up from 2014, up from 2015, up from 2016, and up from 2017.

I think that a once daily and summer seasonal flight would be a valuable add for DL on the CS1/A220.. This aircraft's purpose is going to be to serve long and thin, which this route fits that category. The aircraft could turn out of ABQ to either SEA, LAX or even back to MSP, this shouldn't affect MSP or ATL's current ABQ service at once daily on a thin aircraft during the summer. Plus it makes an opportunity for MSP to capitalize on this route more if the aircraft is turned DTW-ABQ-MSP and the return aircraft doing MSP-ABQ-DTW in the evening. At least, I think this would be better than adding a flight to BOI which is thinner, but growing. GEG is stagnant, and I don't think DL would want to deploy such aircraft to low yielding Reno. Tuscon would be a year round situation on a 738 or A320.

I've been creating graphs on Excel to see where these different markets are going. I'm fascinated by the Detroit market because it has a story. MCO to me is a hard market to analyze, so I invest more time in analyzing Detroit routes.

Markets I want to note are BNA, GSP, and AUS. BNA grew over 150 passengers between Q1 2017 to Q1 2018, my forecasts are showing in the next 3 years, BNA will easily fall into one of Detroit's largest markets. It's already in the top 15. Austin is growing at a slightly faster pace, but the amount of passengers between the two cities are less than Nashville, but it'll be a similar situation. RDU is flat, BDL is only up by nearly 100 from 2014. GSP grew nearly 75 passengers between 2014 and 2018. When creating trendlines, data from more than 12 months makes things sloppier, so my growth lines are Q2 17 through Q2 18. I expect good news regarding Q3 18. Even markets like GSO and CHS are growing at a healthy rate. Sun belt cities seem to be where most growth is consistent (ie SoCal, Arizona, and Texas).

BNA is likely up due a combination of low fare stimulation on the leisure side and as well as a strong economic climate with strong automotive industry ties.
The DTW-BNA flight on Mondays and coming back on Thursday & Fridays, you see company logos on shirts and luggage from every major auto supplier.
BNA is also a very popular weekend gateway destination.

GSP is up due to the strong economic growth on the I-85 corridor, automotive industry ties to the region, its a strong DL market, and also since DL no longer flies DTW-AVL thus making GSP being a good alternative to get to Asheville without having to take a connection.

AUS's economy is on steroids and also low-fare stimulation from the AUS F9 service.

I think its also plausible to see markets like ROA and ICT return (although I'm shocked that DL is still only flying CR2s on MSP-ICT) and I'd guess they would rather upgrade that to CR7/9 before restoring DTW service.
 
NCAD95
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:32 pm

Bloomfield Hills Michigan the 2nd most wealthiest city in the entire United States.


https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/ric ... he-us.html
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:51 pm

The traffic backups into Midfiled are getting ridiculous, especially when you consider how massive the curbside complex is and that the terminal itself feels deserted. My shortcut — having somebody drop me off at the internationals arrivals — got cut off finally. Boy, with all those cops swooping in on me you’d think that I was on the Most Wanted list.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
winginit
Posts: 2542
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:59 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
Bloomfield Hills Michigan the 2nd most wealthiest city in the entire United States.


https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/ric ... he-us.html


I mean... yes. Not to poo poo that stat but the population of Bloomfield Hills, MI is less than 4,000 people...

It's a bit like pointing out that the country with the highest GDP per capita is... Luxembourg.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Yeah, about 4000 people and the average as is 65 years old.
Who really cares in the context of air service discussion for DTW.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:03 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Currently in the DTW main SkyClub and its a hot mess, even more so that typical for a Thursday evening.
I noticed the tarps up last week, and they already removed all the partions on the south side of the main clubs and tarps are up around all the partions on the north side of the club from the escalators. The best way I can describe it is they are going for the "open concept" club and basically looks like a sea of humanity, more crowded than gate areas and now you get to hear everyones phone calls and conversations in the club. The furniture is super-crammed in too.

There is a sign that says MORE SEATS MORE COMFORT (lol). Re-imaged check-in experience and additional seating coming soon. I assume they are changing this from the legacy NW-Worldclub decor to the latest and greatest Delta SkyClub Ikea look.
re better and far more comfortable

That is a shame. The DTW Skyclub was my favorite; it actually felt like a "club:, rather than, as you would describe it, an Ikea showroom... or, as I have described it, a glorified Student Union lounge.

In truth, I have seen some Student Union lounges that are better and far more "clubby" than these new SkyClub iterations...

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:12 pm

Yeah. MSP-F club is a joke (other than decent food offerings). The newly renovated ATL-B club, I was in earlier this week and its super-crowded, super obnoxious, and has all the charm of a student union cafeteria. This is nothing "Elite", "Exclusive", or club-like about it. And, not to mention the ATL-D club that only has a single-stall shared Mens/Womens bathroom lol.

My favorite club in DTW these days is C, its the least-crowded of the clubs since I think with the volume of flights, most people go to the A clubs these days.
The A-clubs are too crowded, they are gutting-out the Mid-A club currently.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:17 pm

compensateme wrote:
The traffic backups into Midfiled are getting ridiculous, especially when you consider how massive the curbside complex is and that the terminal itself feels deserted. My shortcut — having somebody drop me off at the internationals arrivals — got cut off finally. Boy, with all those cops swooping in on me you’d think that I was on the Most Wanted list.

Ah, tis the holiday season. Whenever I pick-up people I tell them meet at the far end of departure level down by the Westin or like said the International Arrivals level.
The domestic arrivals level is usually a hot-mess for pick-ups, particularly in the afternoons/early evenings as well as all the shuttles backed up going into the ground transportation center.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:29 pm

When are they ever going to replace signage around the Midfield? They are looking absolutely horrible.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:22 pm

They replaced some of them right by the terminal if your coming from 275, but the other signs should have been replaced. I saw a huge truck with like 20 signs on it...
 
dtw107
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:52 am

The new signs off 94 are really nice and fool proof then the old plain blue white signs.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:59 am

WOW is still hanging on. I think WOW dove into a decent niche market for travel to Europe. I assume it helps that WOW Premium is constantly either nearly full or sold out. What also helps is the gap between WOWs fares and Delta's fares. It's leaving a decent margin for WOW to charge more. I think folks are more willing to pay $650 RT in the main cabin of WOW to go to London as opposed to the 1.6K DL charges.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
michman
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:44 am

flymco753 wrote:
WOW is still hanging on. I think WOW dove into a decent niche market for travel to Europe. I assume it helps that WOW Premium is constantly either nearly full or sold out. What also helps is the gap between WOWs fares and Delta's fares. It's leaving a decent margin for WOW to charge more. I think folks are more willing to pay $650 RT in the main cabin of WOW to go to London as opposed to the 1.6K DL charges.


Delta has $573 roundtrip fares ($703 for main cabin) on DTW-LHR with 28-day advance purchase.
Last edited by michman on Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Puissance
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:46 am

flymco753 wrote:
WOW is still hanging on. I think WOW dove into a decent niche market for travel to Europe. I assume it helps that WOW Premium is constantly either nearly full or sold out. What also helps is the gap between WOWs fares and Delta's fares. It's leaving a decent margin for WOW to charge more. I think folks are more willing to pay $650 RT in the main cabin of WOW to go to London as opposed to the 1.6K DL charges.


I noticed today when looking for fares to Frankfurt and Stuttgart that Delta and Lufthansa seem to be moving in for the kill on WOW. First, there was only one cheap date showing up on Google Flights in early Feb. for $400 on WOW. Then, when I looked for 10 days in early March, I saw dates for $500 on WOW. When I looked, I noticed that both Delta and Lufthansa were offering flights for $589. With the difference in baggage prices, this is a good value proposition, designed to bleed customers from WOW.

A few months ago, Delta seemed to be ignoring WOW, and Lufthansa was undercutting Delta by $100 or so.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:41 pm

Happy new year my friends up north. I hope ya'll are enjoying your mild winter weather so far.

One last post before the 2019 post comes on.

Adds: EI to DUB (321LR), F9 to SAT (2x wk, 320)
Possibilities: B6 to JFK (2x E90), SY to RSW/TPA/MSP, keeping WOW
Reductions: DL to HNL, AM to SLP/GDL, more RJ routes by DL

Happy New Year
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 8595
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Detroit air service discussion - 2018

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:51 pm

Please continue to add your comments in the 2019 thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411793
Forum Moderator

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos