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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:06 pm

MO11 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Well I could see that since it's during the X-mas/NY holiday period, they could op an extra section with a 321 on say HNL-LAS or OGG-LAX and then only have to do a very short ferry. The 763 coming in as HA036 on 31DEC clearly will be ferried out of PHX to wherever it's going...GYR, MZJ...or maybe one of the one's UA is buying.


Probably not. And if you look a the other affected cities, Oakland and San Jose transform a 767 into a 321 overnight on 12/31, and Sacramento changes from a 767 to a 330 on the same overnight.

atcsundevil wrote:
That would indicate to me that PHX isn't as strong of a market for HAL as some might believe. Clearly they want to boost their yields if it truly is going to the A321 and staying x1 daily. I would imagine they'd upgauge seasonally as needed, but that's certainly a downgrade in passenger comfort from the 763/332.



Well, I fly that flight twice a year and it never goes out with more than 15-20 open seats, usually less. But, the 767 will have to be replaced with something, and there are no more A330s on order. So 767s will be replaced with A321s...


Yeah, I saw that about OAK & SJC too, same as PHX with the overnight switch. So much for my theory and it would appear HA will be running several long ferry flights. That's gotta be expensive, but I don't see how else they could do it. Of course I also find it interesting that they will suddenly have 3 A321's available for this as of 12/31...they must have one or two being delivered near the end of the year which they'll probably run inter-island for a little while (maybe to sub for a couple 717's in the shop) which seems to be their pattern, then pull them for the mainland flights.
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Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:15 pm

On another note it appears that WN is using C12 again (and no longer using C11). Baggage equipment is now parked around C11.
 
allegiantflyer
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:57 pm

According to their website, Boutique is currently hiring Customer Service Reps in Page and Prescott.

They aren't waiting a second to pick up where Great Lakes left off!

Sounds like they are thinking they will win the bids
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:08 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
According to their website, Boutique is currently hiring Customer Service Reps in Page and Prescott.

They aren't waiting a second to pick up where Great Lakes left off!

Sounds like they are thinking they will win the bids

I'd imagine they are the only ones that are going to place a bid.
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MO11
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:09 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
According to their website, Boutique is currently hiring Customer Service Reps in Page and Prescott.

They aren't waiting a second to pick up where Great Lakes left off!

Sounds like they are thinking they will win the bids


Page has recommended Boutique's King Air bid as an interim solution for the summer, but has requested to switch to AEAS with Contour in October. It will not waive the twin engine EAS requirement.

Prescott rejected all bids and has requested a rebid.
 
Osubuckeyes
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:29 pm

cathay747 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

Thats a loss of 63+ seats... along with cargo

That would indicate to me that PHX isn't as strong of a market for HAL as some might believe. Clearly they want to boost their yields if it truly is going to the A321 and staying x1 daily. I would imagine they'd upgauge seasonally as needed, but that's certainly a downgrade in passenger comfort from the 763/332.


See this is what I've started wondering. The flights always have a very high load factor year-round (they certainly were when I flew them in early Dec. 2016, thinking that the period between Thanksgiving & X-mas would be a bit of an off-peak time), but...to insert something Gordon Bethune once famously said, maybe "the yields are dog-crap". So yeah, maybe they're cutting capacity so they can drive up fares a bit and therefore yield, as I speculated above earlier. We may never know. It could of course also be that they have int'l. route plans we don't know about yet which will require all available 330's, thus we and others get downgauged.


To me that seems like a really dumb idea. WN is knocking on the door and PHX will almost certainly be one of their main gateways to Hawaii. Cutting capacity here just doesn't make sense on the surface unless they ultimately plan to go 2x A321, but regardless the schedule probably has not been filled out so we shall see what materializes.
 
allegiantflyer
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:41 pm

alasizon wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
According to their website, Boutique is currently hiring Customer Service Reps in Page and Prescott.

They aren't waiting a second to pick up where Great Lakes left off!

Sounds like they are thinking they will win the bids

I'd imagine they are the only ones that are going to place a bid.


Mokulele and Advance Air also placed PRC bids.
On top of the 2x daily LAX flights Boutique will also fly 2x daily to PHX

MO11 wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
According to their website, Boutique is currently hiring Customer Service Reps in Page and Prescott.

They aren't waiting a second to pick up where Great Lakes left off!

Sounds like they are thinking they will win the bids


Page has recommended Boutique's King Air bid as an interim solution for the summer, but has requested to switch to AEAS with Contour in October. It will not waive the twin engine EAS requirement.

Prescott rejected all bids and has requested a rebid.


I found this link stating Page is seeking Boutique
https://www.lakepowelllife.com/eas-upda ... -decision/
and another stating the same about PRC
http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/ci ... r-services

I like the idea of Boutique getting both airports, it could be like a fun Arizona Airways all over again!
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:15 pm

Osubuckeyes wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
That would indicate to me that PHX isn't as strong of a market for HAL as some might believe. Clearly they want to boost their yields if it truly is going to the A321 and staying x1 daily. I would imagine they'd upgauge seasonally as needed, but that's certainly a downgrade in passenger comfort from the 763/332.


See this is what I've started wondering. The flights always have a very high load factor year-round (they certainly were when I flew them in early Dec. 2016, thinking that the period between Thanksgiving & X-mas would be a bit of an off-peak time), but...to insert something Gordon Bethune once famously said, maybe "the yields are dog-crap". So yeah, maybe they're cutting capacity so they can drive up fares a bit and therefore yield, as I speculated above earlier. We may never know. It could of course also be that they have int'l. route plans we don't know about yet which will require all available 330's, thus we and others get downgauged.


To me that seems like a really dumb idea. WN is knocking on the door and PHX will almost certainly be one of their main gateways to Hawaii. Cutting capacity here just doesn't make sense on the surface unless they ultimately plan to go 2x A321, but regardless the schedule probably has not been filled out so we shall see what materializes.


I have my doubts WN will operate MAX 8 to Hawaii from PHX.
 
MO11
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:01 am

allegiantflyer wrote:

I found this link stating Page is seeking Boutique
https://www.lakepowelllife.com/eas-upda ... -decision/
and another stating the same about PRC
http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/ci ... r-services

I like the idea of Boutique getting both airports, it could be like a fun Arizona Airways all over again!


Page originally recommended Boutique, but now seems to want to jump on AEAS:

https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=DOT-OST-1997-2694-0228&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=pdf

And Prescott did originally support Boutique, but changed its mind yesterday:

https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=DOT-OST-1996-1899-0251&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=pdf
 
Vctony
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:10 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

See this is what I've started wondering. The flights always have a very high load factor year-round (they certainly were when I flew them in early Dec. 2016, thinking that the period between Thanksgiving & X-mas would be a bit of an off-peak time), but...to insert something Gordon Bethune once famously said, maybe "the yields are dog-crap". So yeah, maybe they're cutting capacity so they can drive up fares a bit and therefore yield, as I speculated above earlier. We may never know. It could of course also be that they have int'l. route plans we don't know about yet which will require all available 330's, thus we and others get downgauged.


To me that seems like a really dumb idea. WN is knocking on the door and PHX will almost certainly be one of their main gateways to Hawaii. Cutting capacity here just doesn't make sense on the surface unless they ultimately plan to go 2x A321, but regardless the schedule probably has not been filled out so we shall see what materializes.


I have my doubts WN will operate MAX 8 to Hawaii from PHX.


The logical side of me says that both PHX and LAS will receive MAX 8 service to Hawaii at some point.

Then again, neither PHX nor LAS have any international service on WN (which boggles my mind at this point) so maybe I'm wrong.
 
hz747300
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:29 am

I think it is pending on WN MAX-8s. If AA draws down service enough, then WN will be happy to add service they know exists. PHX terminal 4 is a pretty easy transfer airport too, so they would be able to do a steady diet of O&D + Connections.
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travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:27 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

See this is what I've started wondering. The flights always have a very high load factor year-round (they certainly were when I flew them in early Dec. 2016, thinking that the period between Thanksgiving & X-mas would be a bit of an off-peak time), but...to insert something Gordon Bethune once famously said, maybe "the yields are dog-crap". So yeah, maybe they're cutting capacity so they can drive up fares a bit and therefore yield, as I speculated above earlier. We may never know. It could of course also be that they have int'l. route plans we don't know about yet which will require all available 330's, thus we and others get downgauged.


To me that seems like a really dumb idea. WN is knocking on the door and PHX will almost certainly be one of their main gateways to Hawaii. Cutting capacity here just doesn't make sense on the surface unless they ultimately plan to go 2x A321, but regardless the schedule probably has not been filled out so we shall see what materializes.


I have my doubts WN will operate MAX 8 to Hawaii from PHX.


This! WN is not going after the PHX HNL market. They are going after the California market. I would think that HA would target PHX with " A big Plane, comfort, wide-body etc" from a marketing point. I think HA could own this market. I wonder if AA will go against HA with the bigger plane hook. I am sure yields in PHX are trash. I did 8 days with hotel and RT flight, and Airport transfer for 535.00 per person. This was about 6 years ago but that is some trash yields.
 
alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:47 am

travaz wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
Osubuckeyes wrote:

To me that seems like a really dumb idea. WN is knocking on the door and PHX will almost certainly be one of their main gateways to Hawaii. Cutting capacity here just doesn't make sense on the surface unless they ultimately plan to go 2x A321, but regardless the schedule probably has not been filled out so we shall see what materializes.


I have my doubts WN will operate MAX 8 to Hawaii from PHX.


This! WN is not going after the PHX HNL market. They are going after the California market. I would think that HA would target PHX with " A big Plane, comfort, wide-body etc" from a marketing point. I think HA could own this market. I wonder if AA will go against HA with the bigger plane hook. I am sure yields in PHX are trash. I did 8 days with hotel and RT flight, and Airport transfer for 535.00 per person. This was about 6 years ago but that is some trash yields.


I highly doubt you will ever see WN go for PHX-HNL, secondary islands would be more likely but even then I still doubt WN will be in the PHX-Hawaii market at all. HA and AA already pump enough capacity into the market and I have my doubts on the MAX8 being able to easily make it in the summer. Also, AA isn't going after the local O&D, they are going after the connections that PHX provides, those connections provide a much higher yield than the O&D.

For example, a walk-up ticket tomorrow for PHX-HNL is $385 on AA and only $377 on HA. Four weeks from now, both are charging $377. By comparison,PHX-LIH tomorrow is $293 on AA and $297 on HA (connecting in HNL) and $448 four weeks from now on AA. Connections are far more profitable though, GJT-PHX-LIH is $774 on that same day four weeks from now while GJT-PHX-HNL is $662 as an example. We all know that it doesn't cost AA the same to fly PHX-HNL as it does GJT-PHX so AA is going to take those connecting yields any day
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INFINITI329
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:29 pm

Vctony wrote:
Then again, neither PHX nor LAS have any international service on WN (which boggles my mind at this point) so maybe I'm wrong.


Youre not the only one. I struggle to understand at a minimum WN doesn't operate to the Mexican vacation destinations. (Cabo, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta). Each destination I think could support 1x 73G flight a day during off-peak season and either an upguage or additional frequency during peak season. AA seems eating very nicely off the routes, just looking at today

PHX-PVR 2x/day (319/320)
PHX-SJD 4x/day (320/319/738)
PHX-CUN 2x/day (752/738)

WN would have to work out some logistical concerns because of customs, but that aside from that the market is definitely there for WN to take a bite of.

Im really surprised HA didn't work in the additional lift when making 787 order , knowing they would be down several 767s at beginning of 2019. If traditional 767 destinations were too much aircraft by all means right size them with the A321. But what about 767 destinations that the aircraft was the right size? The dreamliners dont arrive till 2019.
 
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william
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:04 pm

When did Mesa get the snazzy website? Nicely done, puts many larger airport official websites to shame.

http://www.gatewayairport.com
 
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william
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:15 pm

I know SkyHarbor gets all of the attention but here is the masterplan for Mesa, again simplistic and well done.

http://www.gatewayairport.com/documents ... ummary.pdf
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:29 pm

william wrote:
I know SkyHarbor gets all of the attention but here is the masterplan for Mesa, again simplistic and well done.

http://www.gatewayairport.com/documents ... ummary.pdf

That master plan is from a decade ago, not that I think it's changed. The problem that's held them back for years is being able to attract sustainable service from more carriers. They can't embark on such an expensive project with only one or two carriers. When Frontier and Spirit added service a few years ago, it looked like that might be the spark to get things moving, but Frontier stayed for less than a year, and Spirit moved to PHX not long after.

In any event, the plan is for a roughly 20 gate terminal complex, a new control tower, new ramp space, and new taxiways. The current terminal buildings would be repurposed into an FBO and support facilities.
 
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william
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:52 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
william wrote:
I know SkyHarbor gets all of the attention but here is the masterplan for Mesa, again simplistic and well done.

http://www.gatewayairport.com/documents ... ummary.pdf

That master plan is from a decade ago, not that I think it's changed. The problem that's held them back for years is being able to attract sustainable service from more carriers. They can't embark on such an expensive project with only one or two carriers. When Frontier and Spirit added service a few years ago, it looked like that might be the spark to get things moving, but Frontier stayed for less than a year, and Spirit moved to PHX not long after.

In any event, the plan is for a roughly 20 gate terminal complex, a new control tower, new ramp space, and new taxiways. The current terminal buildings would be repurposed into an FBO and support facilities.


Why the addition of taxiways in the masterplan? Is there a problem with traffic flows on the airfield now?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:09 pm

william wrote:
Why the addition of taxiways in the masterplan? Is there a problem with traffic flows on the airfield now?

To support the new facilities on the northeast side of the field and to expedite the flow of traffic around the field. There are currently no parallel taxiways between the three runways (the plan calls for the construction of two full length taxiways between the runways), which also means there are fewer intersecting taxiways with the runways for engress/egress from the runway. All that currently exists is Taxiways P and G which connect the thresholds of all the runways, and Taxiway K that runs through the middle of them. Having more entries/exits will greatly expedite traffic as the airport gets busier.

Some work has already been done to construct/reconstruct (mainly to replace old concrete and to provide reinforcement for heavier aircraft) many taxiways, including a parallel taxiway to 30R/12L, Taxiway C, that currently runs about half the length of the runway. A lot of their efforts have gone to replacing 70+ year old concrete, and they've made a lot of progress in recent years.

You can compare the plan to satellite imagery, and it'll probably give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.

I don't think the existing design is currently that much of an issue, although it is typically the busiest Federal Contract Tower in the system (IWA and CHD have usually traded spots for years). I have to imagine that it's become more challenging as Allegiant's operation has grown, simply due to the fact that it takes longer to get aircraft off the runways with so few taxiways. Most jets either use 30L/12R or the center runway (because it has the ILS), so even though it is a three runway operation, most of the traffic operates from two. Traffic on 30L/12R don't have issues vacating the runway, but the center runway is a different story. If the landing traffic passes Taxiway K, it has to continue to taxi full length to vacate. Not extremely efficient. New taxiways will help to futureproof the field operations.
 
cle757
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:01 pm

Besides UA, who else is moving to T3 north?...and who will share T3 south with Delta?
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wn676
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:14 am

cle757 wrote:
Besides UA, who else is moving to T3 north?...and who will share T3 south with Delta?


AC and AS will both be in T3N along with UA. HA will remain there as well. T3S will house DL, F9, B6, NK, SY, and 4B.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:29 pm

I have just found in the GDS that AA is going to return to using the 333 on PHX-HNL starting 08JAN and will simultaneously reduce freq. to just that one daily flight (which I believe is what they did last time). So as of right now, 1x daily HA 321neo, and 1x daily AA 333...I wonder if this may cause HA to re-think their position.

OMG as I'm typing this...AA's 333 is shown thru 09MAR then on Sunday only 10 & 17MAR, with a 2nd freq. on a 752 shown starting 03MAR on Thurs. thru Sunday and get this...HA035 is shown as a 763 again, daily, from 10-31MAR!!! Then AA goes back to 1-daily except-Sunday with the 333 11-23MAR and that's as far as GDS scheds. go out for now.

So now as far as HA is concerned, methinks a couple of you previously may have been at least partially correct, that the 321 is showing as a place-holder, since we know the 763's are going to be gone by the end of this year. Crazy!
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chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:31 pm

cathay747 wrote:
I have just found in the GDS that AA is going to return to using the 333 on PHX-HNL starting 08JAN and will simultaneously reduce freq. to just that one daily flight (which I believe is what they did last time). So as of right now, 1x daily HA 321neo, and 1x daily AA 333...I wonder if this may cause HA to re-think their position.


Huh. I'm only seeing the HNL turn on the A330. Wonder how they're going to build the line to flow the plane out here.

By the way, I see the 757 is returning to CLT this summer. Aren't all the 757s flat bed equipped, or are they still running a subfleet of domestic 757s?
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:55 pm

chrisair wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
I have just found in the GDS that AA is going to return to using the 333 on PHX-HNL starting 08JAN and will simultaneously reduce freq. to just that one daily flight (which I believe is what they did last time). So as of right now, 1x daily HA 321neo, and 1x daily AA 333...I wonder if this may cause HA to re-think their position.


Huh. I'm only seeing the HNL turn on the A330. Wonder how they're going to build the line to flow the plane out here.

By the way, I see the 757 is returning to CLT this summer. Aren't all the 757s flat bed equipped, or are they still running a subfleet of domestic 757s?


Again, looking at schedules this far out is pointless. Domestic network planning will not start firming equipment until 3 months out (though I believe Hawaii falls under International which typically has about a 5-month window). What you’re seeing is a dummy schedule that’s usually based on whatever was operated the previous year. The same questions came up last year when AA announced that the A333 would operate PHX-HNL. The CLT turns were not finalized until about two months afterwards.

AA still operates a subfleet of domestic-configured 757s. Haven’t been keeping up but last summer I believe there was talk of reconfiguring them for premium domestic service.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:13 pm

wn676 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
I have just found in the GDS that AA is going to return to using the 333 on PHX-HNL starting 08JAN and will simultaneously reduce freq. to just that one daily flight (which I believe is what they did last time). So as of right now, 1x daily HA 321neo, and 1x daily AA 333...I wonder if this may cause HA to re-think their position.


Huh. I'm only seeing the HNL turn on the A330. Wonder how they're going to build the line to flow the plane out here.

By the way, I see the 757 is returning to CLT this summer. Aren't all the 757s flat bed equipped, or are they still running a subfleet of domestic 757s?


Again, looking at schedules this far out is pointless. Domestic network planning will not start firming equipment until 3 months out (though I believe Hawaii falls under International which typically has about a 5-month window). What you’re seeing is a dummy schedule that’s usually based on whatever was operated the previous year. The same questions came up last year when AA announced that the A333 would operate PHX-HNL. The CLT turns were not finalized until about two months afterwards.

AA still operates a subfleet of domestic-configured 757s. Haven’t been keeping up but last summer I believe there was talk of reconfiguring them for premium domestic service.


Interesting. I didn't know that about network planning. OK then I'll shut up about all of this; let's see what it looks like come July or so.
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skyharborshome
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:47 pm

Looks like some minor maintenance on 7L this morning (right at the numbers of 25R). Is a rare day we get to depart on 8.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:07 pm

PHX set a new record in March. The airport handled 4.38 million passengers in March 2018, up 2.3% from last year, and an all-time monthly record (previous record was just under 4.3 set in March 2016). SWA was up 3.1% and AAL up 2.9%. ASA and ACA had big gains, up 17.3% and 15% respectively. Both NKS and FFT were both down significantly, however.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/ ... 559266002/
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:24 pm

Does anyone know how the second BA flight is doing and what kind of impact on 288/289??
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:42 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Does anyone know how the second BA flight is doing and what kind of impact on 288/289??


Hard to say without somebody from BA who's in the know being able to reply, but I've seen some pretty healthy looking loads looking at the seat maps in the GDS, particularly in J...even F with 4 seats taken (mind that's 10 empty, but that's what they get for running a 4-class 744 on the route!). Looking at 288 PHX-LHR for today, 30APR, amazingly only 5 out of the 14 F seats show empty on the seat map...J shows only 1 for sale in availability and 6 unreserved seats on the map...W shows only about 4 out of 36 available, and the back looks fairly full too given availability (can't judge by seat map for that since so many people have to pay for a seat assignment and wait till check-in). So at least it appears they're getting good loads in the premium cabins!

And I presume it's working well again this year given that the 2nd flight 290/291 is running thru the end of Oct. this time (you may recall last year it only ran from sometime in May thru early July), and it's already shown in the GDS schedule for next year, same time frame as this year.

The thing I'm really curious to see would be what impact Condor (DE) coming in here will have on BA's up-to-now Euro-monopoly (nonstop).
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danteaviation
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 15, 2018 8:31 pm

BA might not be so affected though. DE is operating the 767-300ER only twice a week from PHX to FRA nonstop starting May 18. If there was an impact, I would think the seasonal second BA 744 flight would be downgraded to a 789.
 
cm642
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 10:00 am

Hawaiian Airlines CEO talks future in Phoenix, new aircraft

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/new-hawaiian-airlines-ceo-talks-future-in-phoenix-southwest-airlines

Looks like nothing has been finalized on the A321 which is currently being used as a place holder at the moment as some have already speculated.
 
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 1:51 pm

Hawaiian Airlines has not yet publicly announced which aircraft it will use in Phoenix. That's not expected to be finalized until early next year.


Humm, waiting until early next year?? Since the 763 are scheduled to leave the fleet at the end of this year I believe this is nothing more than corporate speak..I read in another article a couple of weeks ago HA stated everything to the mainline except for JFK, LAX, and SFO will see 321's. I guess we shall see.
 
MO11
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 17, 2018 1:59 pm

The 767 is in the 2019 fleet plan.
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri May 18, 2018 1:35 am

I don't see HA conceding PHX at all. I really think that it will be a small expansion to other islands but using 321's. IMHO a flight to HI should be on a Wide Body :)

Is there really enough HA crew in PHX for the CEO to come visit?
 
4holer
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 3:34 pm

Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 4:32 pm

4holer wrote:
Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900


What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-IGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.
Last edited by PlanesNTrains on Tue May 22, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 4:33 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
4holer wrote:
Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900


What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-KGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.


I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
4holer
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 6:22 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
4holer wrote:
Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900


What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-KGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.


I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.


Not sure of flow, but more direct routing moved the arrival ahead a bit to 11:53. I'm sure you saw that but...
I'm at work and will not be able to see it unless they switch the flow very soon!
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 6:25 pm

4holer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-KGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.


I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.


Not sure of flow, but more direct routing moved the arrival ahead a bit to 11:53. I'm sure you saw that but...
I'm at work and will not be able to see it unless they switch the flow very soon!


No I still show 12:06p and everything flowing to the east, so I'm already behind then if it's 11:53. lol Guess I'll roll the dice and see if I can see it.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
4holer
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 6:48 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
4holer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.


Not sure of flow, but more direct routing moved the arrival ahead a bit to 11:53. I'm sure you saw that but...
I'm at work and will not be able to see it unless they switch the flow very soon!


No I still show 12:06p and everything flowing to the east, so I'm already behind then if it's 11:53. lol Guess I'll roll the dice and see if I can see it.



FYI... May be flipping now. Plane over Buckeye.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 7:04 pm

4holer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
4holer wrote:

Not sure of flow, but more direct routing moved the arrival ahead a bit to 11:53. I'm sure you saw that but...
I'm at work and will not be able to see it unless they switch the flow very soon!


No I still show 12:06p and everything flowing to the east, so I'm already behind then if it's 11:53. lol Guess I'll roll the dice and see if I can see it.



FYI... May be flipping now. Plane over Buckeye.


Ya I got all the way to the rental car exit and an AA 757 took off to the west over me. Now back over off the 143.

And just landed. Nice looking livery.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 7:05 pm

4holer wrote:
Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900


Who the flippin hell is Aero-Micronesia????
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 7:07 pm

910A wrote:
Hawaiian Airlines has not yet publicly announced which aircraft it will use in Phoenix. That's not expected to be finalized until early next year.


Humm, waiting until early next year?? Since the 763 are scheduled to leave the fleet at the end of this year I believe this is nothing more than corporate speak..I read in another article a couple of weeks ago HA stated everything to the mainline except for JFK, LAX, and SFO will see 321's. I guess we shall see.


Yeah I find this odd as well. And right below you somebody posted that the 767 is in the fleet plan for 2019, so I wonder if this is due to the delivery delays with the 321; that seems to make sense. However, all that being said, I seriously doubt they'd downgauge their LAS flts from 330's to 321's!! Unless they do a big frequency increase of course. Hmmmmm.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
MO11
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 7:29 pm

cathay747 wrote:
4holer wrote:
Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900


Who the flippin hell is Aero-Micronesia????


Asia Pacific Airlines. It runs freight and mail from Honolulu to the Micronesian Islands. It started with 727s in 1999, looks like this is the last one to retire.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 9:12 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
4holer wrote:
Not too often, maybe the first and definitely the last time, we see a 727 inbound nonstop from Hawaii...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900


What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-KGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.


I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.

The airport usually turns around at about 11ish or noon between the late morning and noon pushes. It starts out in east flow and changes to west flow unless conditions obviously demand otherwise. It's usually pretty consistent though because of the CoP LOA with Tempe. I can't believe Phoenix ever agreed to that stupid arrangement.
 
skyharborshome
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 9:42 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-KGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.


I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.

The airport usually turns around at about 11ish or noon between the late morning and noon pushes. It starts out in east flow and changes to west flow unless conditions obviously demand otherwise. It's usually pretty consistent though because of the CoP LOA with Tempe. I can't believe Phoenix ever agreed to that stupid arrangement.


I knew nothing of the agreement. I thought they did it because most flights departing in the morning go east and then towards the afternoon a lot return from the east. Yes that defies logic however that is what I told myself.
Fly CHD!
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 9:42 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

What's interesting (also) is that it goes HNL-PHX-KGM-MCI today. I may have to drive to PHX to see it stop by.


I should ask which direction the flow is usually at that time? I know when I've spotted in the early afternoon it's usually from the east but not sure what time it flips.

The airport usually turns around at about 11ish or noon between the late morning and noon pushes. It starts out in east flow and changes to west flow unless conditions obviously demand otherwise. It's usually pretty consistent though because of the CoP LOA with Tempe. I can't believe Phoenix ever agreed to that stupid arrangement.


Thanks - appreciate it. I was commuting in the mornings from Surprise to downtown and to Chandler so was used to seeing an east flow in the morning. In the afternoons lately I've hung out spotting and it's always been a west flow. It was that cutoff that I was missing.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 2:22 am

When It left PHX it went to IGM. Then IGM MCI.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MGE900

This is Airline info on the company. They are based in Danville CA and DBA as Asia Pacific Airlines
http://www.asiapacificairlines.com/

Edited to update info
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 4:23 am

skyharborshome wrote:
I knew nothing of the agreement. I thought they did it because most flights departing in the morning go east and then towards the afternoon a lot return from the east. Yes that defies logic however that is what I told myself.

Yeah, it was years ago. Phoenix signed an LOA with Tempe to placate them on noise abatement. It mandates that no more than 50% of operations per month run in east flow. Since flows are obviously based on the winds some days, it means they have to lean heavy to west flow so they don't exceed the 50% monthly total. They need wiggle room incase winds dictate east flow later in the month. IIRC, it usually ended up being about 60/40, but Tempe does almost always get the morning bank in east flow, which is by far the biggest push of the day at PHX. So I guess they get their fair share!

It also meant that for many years all jet departures had to be based off of PXR (Phoenix VORTAC), so it effectively prevented simultaneous jet departures. Again, a single stream for noise abatement. I don't think the new procedures (well, the ones that got shot down in court) are tied to PXR anymore, but I still don't think they can run simultaneous jet departures, even though the field is capable. It's more efficient to run simultaneous arrivals most of the time, but especially in the 8am departure push, there would be very little wait time if they were capable of simultaneous jet departures too. The city has pipe dreams of a fourth runway to make that happen, but I'll be long dead by the time that's ever a reality.

Why Phoenix signed it? No clue. I don't know anyone who does know, either. I'm not sure what incentive there was to restrict ops, but I guess it's no skin off of Phoenix's backs...they aren't controllers or pilots who actually have to like, ya know, deal with it.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Thanks - appreciate it. I was commuting in the mornings from Surprise to downtown and to Chandler so was used to seeing an east flow in the morning. In the afternoons lately I've hung out spotting and it's always been a west flow. It was that cutoff that I was missing.

They usually try to time it with a lull in traffic for obvious reasons — Phoenix isn't like most airports where flow is usually dictated by wind conditions (must be nice!). That lull comes anywhere between about 10 and noon, but it seemed to be right around 11 most days while I was there.
 
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asqx
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 4:51 am

Yeah, everything is still tied to a single fix not far from the runway, even the ones that got taken away, well, not assigned anymore until they get revised anyways. Looks like the May 24 Jepp revision has even more changes but going east still puts pretty much everyone over the same fix whether they turn North or South so no real chance for dual stream as whether its off PXR or RNAV you still come to a point between the center lines before you turn out. Going west there's hope for dual departure stream with the current setup, as the departures with a north turn are mostly straight out until west of the 17 where as departures that continue west or turn south/east have a slight left turn on departure before making the big turn eastbound. But with the timing of departures and arrivals, without a fourth runway it would only be practical in the AM pushes and with pretty much mandatory east flow in the AM that's not gonna happen any time soon.
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