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TripleA
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:59 am

MO11 wrote:
TripleA wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet but apparently Elite Airways already canceled that flight to RST. Did it ever even start? :lol:


And the IFP-PHX flight only lasted for 5 flights.


Yeah I saw that. Apparently they're saying it's just a "temporary suspension". IFP hasn't had the best luck in securing scheduled service (aside from the charter flights).
 
TripleA
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:12 am

I know this isn't related to PHX, but I just saw that Elite also ended its Cal Jet flights between CLD and LAS in April. The funny/pathetic thing though, is that the Cal Jet site is still up and advertises for the flights, yet when you click the drop down to choose the destination there aren't any listed. What a joke.

https://www.caljetelite.com/
 
travaz
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:34 pm

TripleA wrote:
MO11 wrote:
TripleA wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet but apparently Elite Airways already canceled that flight to RST. Did it ever even start? :lol:


And the IFP-PHX flight only lasted for 5 flights.


Yeah I saw that. Apparently they're saying it's just a "temporary suspension". IFP hasn't had the best luck in securing scheduled service (aside from the charter flights).



As far as I can tell (IMHO) Laughlin is a drive market from both PHX and So Cal. I also think the market is low budget.
 
TripleA
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:37 pm

travaz wrote:
TripleA wrote:
MO11 wrote:

And the IFP-PHX flight only lasted for 5 flights.


Yeah I saw that. Apparently they're saying it's just a "temporary suspension". IFP hasn't had the best luck in securing scheduled service (aside from the charter flights).



As far as I can tell (IMHO) Laughlin is a drive market from both PHX and So Cal. I also think the market is low budget.


And LAS, which seems to be the go-to airport for most people living along that Colorado river corridor on the AZ-CA-NV area.
 
86hoya
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:52 pm

The spring 2019 schedule for PHX-LHR is now available. Eastbound AA will leave PHX at 3pm, and arrive LHR at 920am, compared to BA's 745pm departure and 140pm arrival into LHR.

Westbound, there is also substantial separation between flights. The AA flight will leave LHR at 930am, and arrive back in PHX at 1230pm and the BA flight will leave LHR at 245pm and arrive into PHX at 535pm. There does not appear to be any B777 flights between DFW and PHX, thus the 777 will swap out in London.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3034
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:34 am

86hoya wrote:
The spring 2019 schedule for PHX-LHR is now available. Eastbound AA will leave PHX at 3pm, and arrive LHR at 920am, compared to BA's 745pm departure and 140pm arrival into LHR.

Westbound, there is also substantial separation between flights. The AA flight will leave LHR at 930am, and arrive back in PHX at 1230pm and the BA flight will leave LHR at 245pm and arrive into PHX at 535pm. There does not appear to be any B777 flights between DFW and PHX, thus the 777 will swap out in London.


While I agree with you that the 777 will swap out in London. Domestic widebody flights wouldn't be loaded until roughly late October, early November.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
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BA744PHX
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:11 am

86hoya wrote:
The spring 2019 schedule for PHX-LHR is now available. Eastbound AA will leave PHX at 3pm, and arrive LHR at 920am, compared to BA's 745pm departure and 140pm arrival into LHR.

Westbound, there is also substantial separation between flights. The AA flight will leave LHR at 930am, and arrive back in PHX at 1230pm and the BA flight will leave LHR at 245pm and arrive into PHX at 535pm. There does not appear to be any B777 flights between DFW and PHX, thus the 777 will swap out in London.


The PHX flight will be in a W rotation with RDU from what I see

City Departure Arrival Aircraft Flight #
RDU 5:55PM LHR 6:35AM B772 174
LHR 9:30AM PHX 12:30PM B772 195
PHX 3:00PM LHR 9:20AM B772 194
LHR 10:30AM RDU1:55PM B772 173
 
alasizon
Posts: 3034
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:35 am

BA744PHX wrote:
86hoya wrote:
The spring 2019 schedule for PHX-LHR is now available. Eastbound AA will leave PHX at 3pm, and arrive LHR at 920am, compared to BA's 745pm departure and 140pm arrival into LHR.

Westbound, there is also substantial separation between flights. The AA flight will leave LHR at 930am, and arrive back in PHX at 1230pm and the BA flight will leave LHR at 245pm and arrive into PHX at 535pm. There does not appear to be any B777 flights between DFW and PHX, thus the 777 will swap out in London.


The PHX flight will be in a W rotation with RDU from what I see

City Departure Arrival Aircraft Flight #
RDU 5:55PM LHR 6:35AM B772 174
LHR 9:30AM PHX 12:30PM B772 195
PHX 3:00PM LHR 9:20AM B772 194
LHR 10:30AM RDU1:55PM B772 173


70 minutes is less than minimum AA ground time in LHR for a 777. LHR for a 777 requires a minimum of 110 minutes. So based on that schedule, RDU is not the W pattern partner.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
airzona11
Posts: 1885
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:51 am

86hoya wrote:
The spring 2019 schedule for PHX-LHR is now available. Eastbound AA will leave PHX at 3pm, and arrive LHR at 920am, compared to BA's 745pm departure and 140pm arrival into LHR.

Westbound, there is also substantial separation between flights. The AA flight will leave LHR at 930am, and arrive back in PHX at 1230pm and the BA flight will leave LHR at 245pm and arrive into PHX at 535pm. There does not appear to be any B777 flights between DFW and PHX, thus the 777 will swap out in London.


Great times, glad to see the morning arrival into LHR.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2603
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:57 am

alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
86hoya wrote:
The spring 2019 schedule for PHX-LHR is now available. Eastbound AA will leave PHX at 3pm, and arrive LHR at 920am, compared to BA's 745pm departure and 140pm arrival into LHR.

Westbound, there is also substantial separation between flights. The AA flight will leave LHR at 930am, and arrive back in PHX at 1230pm and the BA flight will leave LHR at 245pm and arrive into PHX at 535pm. There does not appear to be any B777 flights between DFW and PHX, thus the 777 will swap out in London.


The PHX flight will be in a W rotation with RDU from what I see

City Departure Arrival Aircraft Flight #
RDU 5:55PM LHR 6:35AM B772 174
LHR 9:30AM PHX 12:30PM B772 195
PHX 3:00PM LHR 9:20AM B772 194
LHR 10:30AM RDU1:55PM B772 173


70 minutes is less than minimum AA ground time in LHR for a 777. LHR for a 777 requires a minimum of 110 minutes. So based on that schedule, RDU is not the W pattern partner.


The only other cities that currently have 772 services into LHR are LAX & JFK, so I'm interested in how AA is gonna swing this.
 
chrisair
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:48 am

BA744PHX wrote:
PHX 3:00PM LHR 9:20AM B772 194


Hello Jetlag!
 
hz747300
Posts: 2420
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:14 am

chrisair wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
PHX 3:00PM LHR 9:20AM B772 194


Hello Jetlag!


1:40pm landing time is not much better. But 9am-ish arrival should make for more connection possibilities via Heathrow.
Keep on truckin'...
 
wetpantsmcgee
Posts: 90
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:02 am

alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if they inquired with AA on renting one of their regional gates on the "birds nest" ? On the east side it seems there is always a gate open or a CR2 thats parked there rather extensively.


They inquired about using a Common Use Gate (B28) but that got cut real quick once they realized the costs and hassle involved compared to T2.

On a side note, that CR2 is about to get used a lot more. SGU goes to 3x daily next month and 4x daily for the holiday season.


Would this be the infamous N407SW?
 
Maverick623
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:10 pm

wetpantsmcgee wrote:
alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if they inquired with AA on renting one of their regional gates on the "birds nest" ? On the east side it seems there is always a gate open or a CR2 thats parked there rather extensively.


They inquired about using a Common Use Gate (B28) but that got cut real quick once they realized the costs and hassle involved compared to T2.

On a side note, that CR2 is about to get used a lot more. SGU goes to 3x daily next month and 4x daily for the holiday season.


Would this be the infamous N407SW?


Nope, 407 (aka Casper) is a Mesa plane.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
formeraa
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:43 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

The PHX flight will be in a W rotation with RDU from what I see

City Departure Arrival Aircraft Flight #
RDU 5:55PM LHR 6:35AM B772 174
LHR 9:30AM PHX 12:30PM B772 195
PHX 3:00PM LHR 9:20AM B772 194
LHR 10:30AM RDU1:55PM B772 173


70 minutes is less than minimum AA ground time in LHR for a 777. LHR for a 777 requires a minimum of 110 minutes. So based on that schedule, RDU is not the W pattern partner.


The only other cities that currently have 772 services into LHR are LAX & JFK, so I'm interested in how AA is gonna swing this.


They could push the LHR-RDU flight to 11:20am and it works. Except where is the longer maintenance done? I would guess there will be another schedule change before all is said and done.
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:18 pm

formeraa wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
alasizon wrote:

70 minutes is less than minimum AA ground time in LHR for a 777. LHR for a 777 requires a minimum of 110 minutes. So based on that schedule, RDU is not the W pattern partner.


The only other cities that currently have 772 services into LHR are LAX & JFK, so I'm interested in how AA is gonna swing this.


They could push the LHR-RDU flight to 11:20am and it works. Except where is the longer maintenance done? I would guess there will be another schedule change before all is said and done.


Based on the way the 772 schedule is loaded today, a theoretical station turn schedule for LHR could look like this without any modifications to the current schedule:

From / Arrival Time -> Departure Time / To
RDU 06:35 -> 10:15 JFK
JFK 08:10 -> 10:30 DFW
DFW 09:00 -> 12:25 DFW
PHX 09:20 -> 12:15 LAX
DFW 12:05 -> 19:30 JFK
LAX 12:45 -> 09:30 PHX
JFK 22:10 -> 10:30 RDU

I highly doubt this is final though, especially with the 21-hour RON. With the 772s all going to a common configuration (IIRC the high-J is going away?), there should be more flexibility in scheduling next year.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1569
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:50 pm

wn676 wrote:
formeraa wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:

The only other cities that currently have 772 services into LHR are LAX & JFK, so I'm interested in how AA is gonna swing this.


They could push the LHR-RDU flight to 11:20am and it works. Except where is the longer maintenance done? I would guess there will be another schedule change before all is said and done.


Based on the way the 772 schedule is loaded today, a theoretical station turn schedule for LHR could look like this without any modifications to the current schedule:

From / Arrival Time -> Departure Time / To
RDU 06:35 -> 10:15 JFK
JFK 08:10 -> 10:30 DFW
DFW 09:00 -> 12:25 DFW
PHX 09:20 -> 12:15 LAX
DFW 12:05 -> 19:30 JFK
LAX 12:45 -> 09:30 PHX
JFK 22:10 -> 10:30 RDU

I highly doubt this is final though, especially with the 21-hour RON. With the 772s all going to a common configuration (IIRC the high-J is going away?), there should be more flexibility in scheduling next year.


I feel I'm reasonably intelligent, but I'm afraid I don't understand your table above one whit...any way you can explain that better?
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:09 pm

cathay747 wrote:
wn676 wrote:
formeraa wrote:

They could push the LHR-RDU flight to 11:20am and it works. Except where is the longer maintenance done? I would guess there will be another schedule change before all is said and done.


Based on the way the 772 schedule is loaded today, a theoretical station turn schedule for LHR could look like this without any modifications to the current schedule:

From / Arrival Time -> Departure Time / To
RDU 06:35 -> 10:15 JFK
JFK 08:10 -> 10:30 DFW
DFW 09:00 -> 12:25 DFW
PHX 09:20 -> 12:15 LAX
DFW 12:05 -> 19:30 JFK
LAX 12:45 -> 09:30 PHX
JFK 22:10 -> 10:30 RDU

I highly doubt this is final though, especially with the 21-hour RON. With the 772s all going to a common configuration (IIRC the high-J is going away?), there should be more flexibility in scheduling next year.


I feel I'm reasonably intelligent, but I'm afraid I don't understand your table above one whit...any way you can explain that better?


Inbounds to LHR are on the left, outbounds from LHR are on the right. It’s meant to show how the aircraft turn at the station. So RDU would arrive at 06:35 and turn out to JFK at 10:15, for example.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2603
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:42 pm

alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if they inquired with AA on renting one of their regional gates on the "birds nest" ? On the east side it seems there is always a gate open or a CR2 thats parked there rather extensively.


They inquired about using a Common Use Gate (B28) but that got cut real quick once they realized the costs and hassle involved compared to T2.

On a side note, that CR2 is about to get used a lot more. SGU goes to 3x daily next month and 4x daily for the holiday season.


If they aspire terminal 4 i think their best bet is working something out with AA for gate space and a possible interline or codeshare agreement
 
910A
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:56 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if they inquired with AA on renting one of their regional gates on the "birds nest" ? On the east side it seems there is always a gate open or a CR2 thats parked there rather extensively.


They inquired about using a Common Use Gate (B28) but that got cut real quick once they realized the costs and hassle involved compared to T2.

On a side note, that CR2 is about to get used a lot more. SGU goes to 3x daily next month and 4x daily for the holiday season.


If they aspire terminal 4 i think their best bet is working something out with AA for gate space and a possible interline or codeshare agreement


I asked this question a couple of weeks ago, and no answer. Contour operates as a public charter, are they allowed to interline with other airlines using that status?
 
jetstream3399
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:52 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:48 pm

alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if they inquired with AA on renting one of their regional gates on the "birds nest" ? On the east side it seems there is always a gate open or a CR2 thats parked there rather extensively.


They inquired about using a Common Use Gate (B28) but that got cut real quick once they realized the costs and hassle involved compared to T2.

On a side note, that CR2 is about to get used a lot more. SGU goes to 3x daily next month and 4x daily for the holiday season.


Totally false. Our order of terminal preference was 4, 3, 2. We were told that there were no common use gates in 4, no jetbridge capable of accommodating an ERJ available in 3, and only one gate with limited availability in 2 (where we ended up). The airport originally wanted to put us on a hardstand and bus the passengers. If you work at PHX and can get us B28, PM me.
 
910A
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:20 pm

jetstream3399 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I wonder if they inquired with AA on renting one of their regional gates on the "birds nest" ? On the east side it seems there is always a gate open or a CR2 thats parked there rather extensively.


They inquired about using a Common Use Gate (B28) but that got cut real quick once they realized the costs and hassle involved compared to T2.

On a side note, that CR2 is about to get used a lot more. SGU goes to 3x daily next month and 4x daily for the holiday season.


Totally false. Our order of terminal preference was 4, 3, 2. We were told that there were no common use gates in 4, no jetbridge capable of accommodating an ERJ available in 3, and only one gate with limited availability in 2 (where we ended up). The airport originally wanted to put us on a hardstand and bus the passengers. If you work at PHX and can get us B28, PM me.


If you're with Contour, just wanted to say how impressed I am with the airline. I felt like a guest on the OAK-CEC-OAK route instead of a passenger.
 
MO11
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:09 pm

910A wrote:

I asked this question a couple of weeks ago, and no answer. Contour operates as a public charter, are they allowed to interline with other airlines using that status?


I'm pretty sure the answer is no, since certain rules and protections which apply to scheduled flights, don't apply to charters. I know that you can't buy a through ticket between JetSuite X and JetBlue on JetBlue's website.
 
jetstream3399
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:52 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:06 am

910A wrote:
If you're with Contour, just wanted to say how impressed I am with the airline. I felt like a guest on the OAK-CEC-OAK route instead of a passenger.


I am, and I appreciate you taking the time to tell me that. There are a lot of people at this company working very hard to operate an airline we can all be proud of.

Regarding the interline question, a scheduled carrier can interline with a public charter operator but cannot codeshare on connecting flights. They can codeshare on point to point flying such as what JetBlue is doing with JetsuiteX. The issue has to do with the escrowing of passenger funds that is required for Part 380 public charter operators and the ability to break out the fare revenue between carriers. Not an issue for an interline and not an issue in a scenario where the indirect air carrier, in JetsuiteX's case JetBlue, agrees to escrow the funds of all passengers that book a seat on a JetsuiteX-operated flight.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3034
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:46 am

jetstream3399 wrote:
Totally false. Our order of terminal preference was 4, 3, 2. We were told that there were no common use gates in 4, no jetbridge capable of accommodating an ERJ available in 3, and only one gate with limited availability in 2 (where we ended up). The airport originally wanted to put us on a hardstand and bus the passengers. If you work at PHX and can get us B28, PM me.


Sadly, I don't control the terminal allocation but from what portion of the negotiation I was involved in along with the planning, I know that cost was a problem for T4 between the gate usage ($250/leg) and the ticket counter fees. If you're saying Contour was willing to pay those fees, then I'm even more impressed. There was also some chest puffing from someone higher up at Contour that told us that they "knew someone at AA and could get AA to agree to using B15 and having AA ground handle the flights"; obviously that didn't work out as planned. I personally wish that Contour was in T4 because we have a lot of passengers that are self connecting to some of our flights and a lot of them don't plan enough time or incorrectly assume that there is a baggage interline in place.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
jetstream3399
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:52 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:18 am

alasizon wrote:
jetstream3399 wrote:
Totally false. Our order of terminal preference was 4, 3, 2. We were told that there were no common use gates in 4, no jetbridge capable of accommodating an ERJ available in 3, and only one gate with limited availability in 2 (where we ended up). The airport originally wanted to put us on a hardstand and bus the passengers. If you work at PHX and can get us B28, PM me.


Sadly, I don't control the terminal allocation but from what portion of the negotiation I was involved in along with the planning, I know that cost was a problem for T4 between the gate usage ($250/leg) and the ticket counter fees. If you're saying Contour was willing to pay those fees, then I'm even more impressed. There was also some chest puffing from someone higher up at Contour that told us that they "knew someone at AA and could get AA to agree to using B15 and having AA ground handle the flights"; obviously that didn't work out as planned. I personally wish that Contour was in T4 because we have a lot of passengers that are self connecting to some of our flights and a lot of them don't plan enough time or incorrectly assume that there is a baggage interline in place.


Costs for T4 were never even discussed because it was never offered. When we were told T4 wasn't an option from the airport directly, we contacted Piedmont since they handle all Eagle flying at PHX to see if we could secure space through them. They declined as they serve AA exclusively and don't work with any other carriers at PHX. I'd love to know where you got your information from The gate situation in PHX was one of the most frustrating airport start up issues I've encountered in my time here. There was no chest puffing - simply motivation to try to find the best solution for our customers.
 
AZLiam
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:51 am

Sky Harbor airport posts stronger passenger growth in July

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport saw total passenger numbers increase in July compared with the same month in 2017, according to data released Tuesday by the city of Phoenix Aviation Department.

In total, the region’s main airport had 3,814,486 total passengers fly in or out in July, a 2.3 percent increase from the same month last year. This comes after the month of June when passenger stats stayed relatively the same in 2017 and 2018.

All four of Sky Harbor’s largest carriers — American Airlines Inc. (NASDAQ: AAL), Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV), Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE: DAL) and United Airlines Inc. (NYSE: UAL) — saw increases in their Phoenix passengers compared to July 2017.

American Airlines, Sky Harbor’s top carrier, saw total passengers increase by 2.6 percent in the month while United saw 10.7 percent more passengers in Terminal 2.

Sky Harbor's passenger traffic normally slows down during the summer months.

Sky Harbor also saw an increase in cargo during July with 30,625 tons of cargo going through the airport. That’s an increase of 2.9 percent from July 2017.


https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2018/08/28/sky-harbor-posts-stronger-passenger-growth-in-july.html
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1569
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:07 pm

wn676 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
wn676 wrote:

Based on the way the 772 schedule is loaded today, a theoretical station turn schedule for LHR could look like this without any modifications to the current schedule:

From / Arrival Time -> Departure Time / To
RDU 06:35 -> 10:15 JFK
JFK 08:10 -> 10:30 DFW
DFW 09:00 -> 12:25 DFW
PHX 09:20 -> 12:15 LAX
DFW 12:05 -> 19:30 JFK
LAX 12:45 -> 09:30 PHX
JFK 22:10 -> 10:30 RDU

I highly doubt this is final though, especially with the 21-hour RON. With the 772s all going to a common configuration (IIRC the high-J is going away?), there should be more flexibility in scheduling next year.


I feel I'm reasonably intelligent, but I'm afraid I don't understand your table above one whit...any way you can explain that better?


Inbounds to LHR are on the left, outbounds from LHR are on the right. It’s meant to show how the aircraft turn at the station. So RDU would arrive at 06:35 and turn out to JFK at 10:15, for example.


Thanks. I get it now! Those are some LONG turn-times! However, one thing...in the current schedule, all DFW flights are 77W's not 772's and on the date I looked, there were 3 flights, not 2.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:14 pm

cathay747 wrote:
wn676 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

I feel I'm reasonably intelligent, but I'm afraid I don't understand your table above one whit...any way you can explain that better?


Inbounds to LHR are on the left, outbounds from LHR are on the right. It’s meant to show how the aircraft turn at the station. So RDU would arrive at 06:35 and turn out to JFK at 10:15, for example.


Thanks. I get it now! Those are some LONG turn-times! However, one thing...in the current schedule, all DFW flights are 77W's not 772's and on the date I looked, there were 3 flights, not 2.


You have to look at the schedule for next spring, after PHX-LHR launches. I pulled 4/4/19.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
910A
Posts: 1928
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:36 pm

From the Phoenix/Mesa Gateway Airport Facebook

You plus California Pacific Airlines equals the BEACH!
Phoenicians now have an easier way to get to Southern California - California Pacific Airlines from Gateway Airport to Carlsbad! Flights will be six days per week and begin November 15th.


Wonder how long this service will last?

The schedule: departs AZA at 5:05pm - arrives CLD 5:15pm
departs CLD at 2:30pm - arrives AZA 4:35pm
daily ex Sunday
One way fares $129 or $239 (refundable)
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:38 pm

910A wrote:
From the Phoenix/Mesa Gateway Airport Facebook

You plus California Pacific Airlines equals the BEACH!
Phoenicians now have an easier way to get to Southern California - California Pacific Airlines from Gateway Airport to Carlsbad! Flights will be six days per week and begin November 15th.


Wonder how long this service will last?

The schedule: departs AZA at 5:05pm - arrives CLD 5:15pm
departs CLD at 2:30pm - arrives AZA 4:35pm
daily ex Sunday
One way fares $129 or $239 (refundable)


Yeah, I’m sure that will do really well without a Sunday return.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:00 pm

wn676 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
wn676 wrote:

Inbounds to LHR are on the left, outbounds from LHR are on the right. It’s meant to show how the aircraft turn at the station. So RDU would arrive at 06:35 and turn out to JFK at 10:15, for example.


Thanks. I get it now! Those are some LONG turn-times! However, one thing...in the current schedule, all DFW flights are 77W's not 772's and on the date I looked, there were 3 flights, not 2.


You have to look at the schedule for next spring, after PHX-LHR launches. I pulled 4/4/19.


Ah yes...I just did. Wow...FOUR AA flights, and yes I see 2 are using 772's...then the BA flight...FIVE DFW-LHR...jeez!
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alasizon
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:05 pm

wn676 wrote:
910A wrote:
From the Phoenix/Mesa Gateway Airport Facebook

You plus California Pacific Airlines equals the BEACH!
Phoenicians now have an easier way to get to Southern California - California Pacific Airlines from Gateway Airport to Carlsbad! Flights will be six days per week and begin November 15th.


Wonder how long this service will last?

The schedule: departs AZA at 5:05pm - arrives CLD 5:15pm
departs CLD at 2:30pm - arrives AZA 4:35pm
daily ex Sunday
One way fares $129 or $239 (refundable)


Yeah, I’m sure that will do really well without a Sunday return.


I don't get why you would do ex Sunday... Ex Tu/Sa I get but not Sunday. I give it 3 months (and why they didn't use PHX is beyond me).
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
wn676
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:50 pm

There’s a few route and equipment announcements coming from AA soon that will make some midwesterners happy...
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:28 am

wn676 wrote:
There’s a few route and equipment announcements coming from AA soon that will make some midwesterners happy...

Hopefully with all these adds and with LHR being added recently, that other posters can finally stop the AA leaving PHX threads!!!!
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:19 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
wn676 wrote:
There’s a few route and equipment announcements coming from AA soon that will make some midwesterners happy...

Hopefully with all these adds and with LHR being added recently, that other posters can finally stop the AA leaving PHX threads!!!!


AMEN! I swear...there can't be ANY thread about AA where somebody doesn't wind up posting a comment about AA dehubbing PHX! It's an obsession in this forum! And they always give one reason as being proximity to LAX...yet nobody ever asks or comments about dehubbing DCA due it's close proximity to PHL. Like either LAX or PHL could absorb what PHX or DCA do. And no matter what we all say in rebuttal, these armchair CEO's who think they know it all just keep beating that horse to death. I've given up arguing with them because it's like arguing with a brick wall. :banghead:
Last edited by cathay747 on Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:21 pm

wn676 wrote:
There’s a few route and equipment announcements coming from AA soon that will make some midwesterners happy...


Hoping it's a little more exciting than PHX-MSN! :rotfl:
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BA744PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:53 pm

cathay747 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
wn676 wrote:
There’s a few route and equipment announcements coming from AA soon that will make some midwesterners happy...

Hopefully with all these adds and with LHR being added recently, that other posters can finally stop the AA leaving PHX threads!!!!


AMEN! I swear...there can't be ANY thread about AA where somebody doesn't wind up posting a comment about AA dehubbing PHX! It's an obsession in this forum! And they always give one reason as being proximity to LAX...yet nobody ever asks or comments about dehubbing DCA due it's close proximity to PHL. Like either LAX or PHL could absorb what PHX or DCA do. And no matter what we all say in rebuttal, these armchair CEO's who think they know it all just keep beating that horse to death. I've given up arguing with them because it's like arguing with a brick wall. :banghead:


Agreed! What I found interesting when LHR was announced, MEX was also increased to 3 daily form PHX and LAX went down to 1 daily to MEX. Could we now possibly start AA leaving LAX and ORD because of there small shifts in INTL service?? LOL
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:41 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Hopefully with all these adds and with LHR being added recently, that other posters can finally stop the AA leaving PHX threads!!!!


AMEN! I swear...there can't be ANY thread about AA where somebody doesn't wind up posting a comment about AA dehubbing PHX! It's an obsession in this forum! And they always give one reason as being proximity to LAX...yet nobody ever asks or comments about dehubbing DCA due it's close proximity to PHL. Like either LAX or PHL could absorb what PHX or DCA do. And no matter what we all say in rebuttal, these armchair CEO's who think they know it all just keep beating that horse to death. I've given up arguing with them because it's like arguing with a brick wall. :banghead:


Agreed! What I found interesting when LHR was announced, MEX was also increased to 3 daily form PHX and LAX went down to 1 daily to MEX. Could we now possibly start AA leaving LAX and ORD because of there small shifts in INTL service?? LOL



Amen! :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
acentauri
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:46 am

Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.
 
Mboyle1988
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:03 pm

acentauri wrote:
Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.


LAX doesn’t carry much connecting traffic domestically, I don’t think. Nor could AA initiate that connecting traffic because it has limited gates. PHX serves to connect smaller west coast cities with Midwest and East Coast. Beyond that, PHX has a fairly high O&D.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:15 pm

acentauri wrote:
Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.


Well, DL's DTW hub is only 528 miles from MSP and 594 miles from the monster-hub of ATL.

PHX is 868 from DFW not 700, so further apart than DL's hubs.

I'll let others comment more; I'll just suffice to say that PHX fulfills a somewhat unique role in the AA network compared to the other hubs. I dare say similar to DCA. I also dare say that if PHX didn't have sufficient connecting volumes, it would have been de-hubbed a LONG time ago. It seems to work just peachy alongside/in-between DFW & LAX.

Once thing for certain is operational "reliability" in terms of weather...PHX is the ONLY AA hub city that does not suffer from winter weather woes save MIA...OK LAX too if you count LAX as a hub, which I personally don't...mini-hub maybe, I think of LAX as a focus-city. And even now during monsoon season, we don't have the terrible ops problems due to summer thunderstorm activity...some but VERY little especially compared to DFW or even ORD. Gotta love those Midwest thunderstorms and tornados! Hell even the NE at DCA/PHL/JFK.
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:17 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.


LAX doesn’t carry much connecting traffic domestically, I don’t think. Nor could AA initiate that connecting traffic because it has limited gates. PHX serves to connect smaller west coast cities with Midwest and East Coast. Beyond that, PHX has a fairly high O&D.


:checkmark:

Bingo...hence my comment in the post I just did above about PHX's "unique" role in the network. A service to Santa Rosa, CA wouldn't work from DFW!
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cathay747
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:18 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Hopefully with all these adds and with LHR being added recently, that other posters can finally stop the AA leaving PHX threads!!!!


AMEN! I swear...there can't be ANY thread about AA where somebody doesn't wind up posting a comment about AA dehubbing PHX! It's an obsession in this forum! And they always give one reason as being proximity to LAX...yet nobody ever asks or comments about dehubbing DCA due it's close proximity to PHL. Like either LAX or PHL could absorb what PHX or DCA do. And no matter what we all say in rebuttal, these armchair CEO's who think they know it all just keep beating that horse to death. I've given up arguing with them because it's like arguing with a brick wall. :banghead:


Agreed! What I found interesting when LHR was announced, MEX was also increased to 3 daily form PHX and LAX went down to 1 daily to MEX. Could we now possibly start AA leaving LAX and ORD because of there small shifts in INTL service?? LOL


Oh right, I forgot about the MEX changes. So yeah! AA is cutting ORD-PEK, ORD-PVG and dropping ORD-NRT to only 3x/week...OMG...will ORD be de-hubbed??? LOL
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travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:25 pm

cathay747 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.


Well, DL's DTW hub is only 528 miles from MSP and 594 miles from the monster-hub of ATL.

PHX is 868 from DFW not 700, so further apart than DL's hubs.

I'll let others comment more; I'll just suffice to say that PHX fulfills a somewhat unique role in the AA network compared to the other hubs. I dare say similar to DCA. I also dare say that if PHX didn't have sufficient connecting volumes, it would have been de-hubbed a LONG time ago. It seems to work just peachy alongside/in-between DFW & LAX.

Once thing for certain is operational "reliability" in terms of weather...PHX is the ONLY AA hub city that does not suffer from winter weather woes save MIA...OK LAX too if you count LAX as a hub, which I personally don't...mini-hub maybe, I think of LAX as a focus-city. And even now during monsoon season, we don't have the terrible ops problems due to summer thunderstorm activity...some but VERY little especially compared to DFW or even ORD. Gotta love those Midwest thunderstorms and tornados! Hell even the NE at DCA/PHL/JFK.



If you look at the current numbers for AA ( info located at http://www.skyharbor.com/About/Informat ... Statistics ) O&D traffic runs about 50% depending on the month. Here is a look at July 2018 and March 2018. If you look at the numbers Both O&D and connecting are pretty big numbers for AA. Depending on the month it is about 50% for each. Where would all those connecting passengers go? LAX could not handle the additional traffic and DFW is a bit far for a lot of the markets served out of PHX. DFW - FLG? Not for me!

March 2018
AA Total Pax : 981,561
AA O&D : 526,034 53%
AA Connect : 403,261 41%
AA International: 52,266 5%

July 2018
AA Total Pax : 926,017
AA O&D : 411,467 44%
AA Connect : 467,504 50%
AA International : 47,046 5%
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:32 pm

AN interesting stat is the O&D traffic in passenger numbers between PHX and DFW is nearly the same. Daily O&D in DFW is 59,577. For PHX it is 54,040. DFW is 31% of all Pax PHX is 51% of all Pax . Can we Please put to bed that PHX is but a minor non hub for AA. Sorry it didnt format well so here is the link: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=176627


Metro Daily O&D total total O&D O&D % # of Airports
New York 127,801 51,883,694 23,131,981 44.60% 6 airports
Los Angeles 104,723 34,789,171 18,954,863 54.50% 4 airports
Chicago 86,821 39,281,585 15,714,601 40.00% 2 airports
Miami 79,636 31,262,044 14,414,116 46.10% 3 airports
Las Vegas 73,138 20,224,090 13,237,978 65.50%
San Francisco 68,838 22,139,378 12,459,678 56.30% 2 airports
Orlando 68,040 18,211,975 12,315,240 67.60% 2 airports
Dallas/Ft.Worth 59,577 31,149,065 10,783,437 34.60% 2 airports
Atlanta 56,645 43,008,154 10,252,745 23.80%
Phoenix 54,040 18,968,897 9,781,240 51.60%
Denver 53,747 24,337,554 9,728,207 40.00%
Washington 52,832 19,915,669 9,562,592 48.00% 2 airports
Boston 44,673 12,068,312 8,085,813 67.00%
Seattle 43,376 14,787,443 7,851,056 53.10%
Philadelphia 41,860 14,878,298 7,576,660 50.90%
Houston 39,021 23,606,848 7,062,801 29.90% 2 airports
Tampa 39,021 9,348,162 7,062,801 75.30% 2 airports
Baltimore 38,901 10,001,992 7,041,081 70.30%
San Diego 36,242 8,171,820 6,559,802 80.30%
Minneapolis 34,399 16,173,119 6,226,219 38.50%
Detroit 33,128 15,715,346 5,996,168 38.20%
Salt Lake City 22,696 9,988,837 4,107,976 41.10%
St. Louis 22,361 6,258,829 4,047,341 64.70%
Portland 22,144 6,116,995 4,008,064 65.50%
Sacramento 20,175 4,356,274 3,651,675 83.80%
Kansas City 19,973 4,685,648 3,615,113 77.20%
Charlotte 19,562 17,215,648 3,540,722 20.60%
Raleigh/Durham 18,585 4,291,234 3,363,885 78.40%
San Jose 18,581 4,039,922 3,363,161 83.30%
New Orleans 18,378 3,977,881 3,326,418 83.60%
Austin 17,189 3,915,683 3,111,209 79.50%
Pittsburgh 16,913 3,922,714 3,061,253 78.00%
San Antonio 16,777 3,830,211 3,036,637 79.30%
Nashville 16,751 4,329,413 3,031,931 70.00%
Indianapolis 16,377 4,155,161 2,964,237 71.30%
Riverside 14,623 3,302,863 2,646,763 80.10% 2 airports
Columbus 13,328 3,028,930 2,412,368 79.60%
Jacksonville 12,741 2,835,324 2,306,121 81.30%
Milwaukee 12,541 3,560,224 2,269,921 63.80%
Hartford 12,099 3,056,490 2,189,919 71.70%
Cleveland 11,767 4,719,504 2,129,827 45.10%
Buffalo 11,662 2,536,000 2,110,822 83.20%
Providence 10,617 2,168,664 1,921,677 88.60%
Norfolk 9,343 2,140,859 1,691,083 79.00% 2 airports
Cincinnati 7,976 5,416,171 1,443,656 26.70%
Memphis 7,408 4,855,090 1,340,848 27.60%
Oklahoma City 6,763 1,643,426 1,224,103 74.50%
Louisville 6,697 1,593,425 1,212,157 76.10%
Richmond 6,617 1,608,958 1,197,677 74.40%
Birmingham 5,845 1,444,029 1,057,945 73.30%
 
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chepos
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:02 pm

acentauri wrote:
Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.


Good God, people have been going on about that mess since the merger was announced in 2013. The airline has mentioned DFW can not replicate the role of PHX either.
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777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:21 pm

acentauri wrote:
Now don't take this as anything other than a "geographic" comment, but theories regarding de-emphasizing PHX due to its closeness to LAX alone is not the real threat, it's the combined proximity to monster hub DFW - 700nm East and LAX (to a smaller extent) - 300nm to the West. So a ? has to be, does PHX provide sufficient traffic Relief for DFW and LAX to support it's retention as a full-fledged AA Hub? Where HUB is defined as having significant network Connecting Traffic.


DFW isn't far enough west to be a western connecting hub and the space and opportunity cost is too high to do it at LAX. PHX is profitable. If it weren't, AA would have pulled out as soon as they could. PHX has a few things going for it that those defunct rust belt hubs didn't - mainly that PHX has a tourism industry those cities would kill for and it's one of the quickest growing regions in the country in terms of population. Operationally, it's also rarely affected by anything weather related.
 
travaz
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:34 pm

IF DFW is such a monster hub why is the daily connecting traffic in PHX nearly equal to DFW?
 
777PHX
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Re: Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:07 pm

travaz wrote:
IF DFW is such a monster hub why is the daily connecting traffic in PHX nearly equal to DFW?


Because it's not. O&D numbers are similarish, which is what you'd expect as DFW isn't that much bigger than the Phoenix area is. But look at the connecting traffic percentage, DFW is 66% where PHX is 49%. That's a huge difference.

Let's take last year's passenger numbers for both airports:

DFW

67,092,194 x .66 = 44,280,848/yr = 121,317/day

PHX

43,921,670 x .49 = 21,521,618/yr = 58,963.34/day

Big difference. It's also worth pointing out that these numbers are for all airlines, so AA is pretty much by itself at DFW, whereas AA has WN helping bolster these numbers at PHX. The difference is even larger if you take WN out of the equation on the PHX side. (I'm working under the assumption that next to no one is connecting in DFW on an airline other than AA, where people are connecting on AA and WN at PHX)

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