• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 37
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 2774
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:47 pm

Continued from the 2017 discussion, which can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357387

Have a happy 2018!
 
Indy
Posts: 4701
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:37 am

Thanks for creating a new thread. Happy New Year to all of the IND people :-)
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:18 pm

Moving my 2018 predictions to this thread
2018 Route Predictions:

Delta: IND-SEA/LAS, maybe AUS if DL adds p2p from there
Allegiant: IND-LAX/BWI/EWR/+SJU if tourism recovers, and int'l flights if they have their system up in time
Southwest: IND-SAT/BNA or STL, + plus maybe an oddball route
United: IND-LAX
American: Status Quo
One Jet: IND-MKE/MEM
Air Canada: Status Quo
Sun Country: IND-RSW/MSP/DFW
JetBlue: IND-BOS + JFK or FLL
Frontier: Status Quo, maybe IND-MIA
Alaska/Virgin America: Status Quo, maybe IND-SAN/PDX

2018 Frequency/Mainline predictions:
Southwest: IND-AUS goes daily, IND-SAN goes year-round, IND-DAL goes 2x daily
Delta: IND-RSW/MSP goes all mainline, IND-LGA/BOS see more mainline
American: IND-ORD sees mainline year-round
United: IND-EWR sees mainline again

Less likely, but still possibilities:
WW or FI: IND-KEF
AM: IND-MEX
WS/DL/AC: more IND-Canada
DY/D8: IND-LGW
G4: IND-OAK, SAN, RDU, PVD, or DEN
DL: IND-BDL/TPA
NK: IND-FLL/LAS/MCO/e.t.c
7Q: IND-wherever
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:35 pm

Baltimore - would not be surprised to see Allegiant come in.
Las Vegas - no surprise if Delta comes in.
Phoenix/Mesa - no surprise if Allegiant goes year around.
Providence - would not be surprised to see Allegiant come in.
San Antonio - am surprised Southwest has never jumped on this one. perhaps it may happen.
Tampa - no surprise if Delta comes in.

Sun Country - would not be surprised if this eventually happens, but I just don't see it happening until 2019, if it does.

In the odd ball category-
Allegiant - Montego Bay or Punta Cana
Frontier - seasonal return to Philadelphia, seasonal add to West Palm Beach
WOW Air - would not surprise me.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
indygs
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:26 pm

Curious about DL's IND-LGA and BOS loads. I take those flights a couple times a year and they often times seem quite empty. Could just be my days/times being off-peak but I'd be surprised to see those move to a mix of mainline, though I certainly wouldn't complain.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:58 pm

Haven't flown IND/BOS but have done IND/LGA plenty of times, and for the past year and a half or so, once a month. Going even across most carriers, I've always come across pretty healthy loads. I think the least amount of people, in a matter of ratio, was a Southwest 737 into LGA with only 97 on board. They've always been full to the brim to/from Newark since they moved over. Fortunately since Southwest left the LGA/IND market and went to EWR, I haven't found highway robbery on fares between the two.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
indygs
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:43 pm

stlgph wrote:
Haven't flown IND/BOS but have done IND/LGA plenty of times, and for the past year and a half or so, once a month. Going even across most carriers, I've always come across pretty healthy loads. I think the least amount of people, in a matter of ratio, was a Southwest 737 into LGA with only 97 on board. They've always been full to the brim to/from Newark since they moved over. Fortunately since Southwest left the LGA/IND market and went to EWR, I haven't found highway robbery on fares between the two.


That's awesome to hear. I was on a DL IND-LGA last September that had a grand total of 13 people on a Saturday AM (maybe the 830/9a departure). Not a great sight but as always, could just be an anomaly.
 
Indy
Posts: 4701
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:56 pm

stlgph wrote:
Baltimore - would not be surprised to see Allegiant come in.
Las Vegas - no surprise if Delta comes in.
Phoenix/Mesa - no surprise if Allegiant goes year around.
Providence - would not be surprised to see Allegiant come in.
San Antonio - am surprised Southwest has never jumped on this one. perhaps it may happen.
Tampa - no surprise if Delta comes in.

Sun Country - would not be surprised if this eventually happens, but I just don't see it happening until 2019, if it does.

In the odd ball category-
Allegiant - Montego Bay or Punta Cana
Frontier - seasonal return to Philadelphia, seasonal add to West Palm Beach
WOW Air - would not surprise me.


Overall that is a pretty solid list. Just a couple of questions. Providence? Is there enough demand for a flight? I am also curious about Tampa. Didn't DL run that route not long ago? Also, I thought Sun Country mentioned Indy for 2018. But that could have been just talk in an article and the date was just a suggestion.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ncflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 pm

If INDY is anything like CLE then LGA loads are great M/Th/F but terrible otherwise-- such a business dependent and expensive route. Indy is a little different than CLE/CMH/PIT but NY is close enough and LGA so damn delay-prone that it is just as easy for price sensitive travelers to drive the 8 mostly rural hours. This is market where fares are just very stubborn. And EWR is not much better, not that I know anything but it sure seems to me like UA puts more capacity on the route than necessary. From studying the UA seat maps LGA/EWR and DCA are the only over capacity markets at CLE.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:15 pm

Sun Country hasn't even really the start of their transition at the MSP base. Could be wrong, but I would think planning a whole new city of flights would/could take some time on their part.

Providence - a guess because I would venture to say Allegiant in Indianapolis will ultimately end up looking like Allegiant in Cincinnati, Providence is already flown from Cincinnati so they have the "space/employees rented," and outside of Boston and New York City airports, I can see another New England gateway working. There's a lot of us transplants out here throughout the region.

Airfares between IND/LGA used to be in the $500 roundtrip or more range on American and Delta, now they've come back down into the $200-$250 roundtrip range, if not sometimes less. I would like to see the growth of leisure traffic between the two cities. I see casual wear greatly outnumber the suits when I go between the two.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
zackary747
Posts: 455
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:16 pm

Indy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Baltimore - would not be surprised to see Allegiant come in.
Las Vegas - no surprise if Delta comes in.
Phoenix/Mesa - no surprise if Allegiant goes year around.
Providence - would not be surprised to see Allegiant come in.
San Antonio - am surprised Southwest has never jumped on this one. perhaps it may happen.
Tampa - no surprise if Delta comes in.

Sun Country - would not be surprised if this eventually happens, but I just don't see it happening until 2019, if it does.

In the odd ball category-
Allegiant - Montego Bay or Punta Cana
Frontier - seasonal return to Philadelphia, seasonal add to West Palm Beach
WOW Air - would not surprise me.


Overall that is a pretty solid list. Just a couple of questions. Providence? Is there enough demand for a flight? I am also curious about Tampa. Didn't DL run that route not long ago? Also, I thought Sun Country mentioned Indy for 2018. But that could have been just talk in an article and the date was just a suggestion.


Allegiant just started CVG-PVD. Assuming loads are good on that flight, we could see it come here too.
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr
 
Indy
Posts: 4701
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:22 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Allegiant just started CVG-PVD. Assuming loads are good on that flight, we could see it come here too.


I went to check numbers on Faremeasure.com but the site doesn't appear to be working right. Selecting IND gets you data for Long Beach.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
zackary747
Posts: 455
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 pm

Indy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Allegiant just started CVG-PVD. Assuming loads are good on that flight, we could see it come here too.


I went to check numbers on Faremeasure.com but the site doesn't appear to be working right. Selecting IND gets you data for Long Beach.


Well, that's weird. Flightaware insight has some good data too. Last time I checked, some 2017 data is still being plugged in as it's early Jan. still.
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:18 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Moving my 2018 predictions to this thread
2018 Route Predictions:

Southwest: IND-SAT/BNA or STL, + plus maybe an oddball route
United: IND-LAX
Alaska/Virgin America: Status Quo, maybe IND-SAN/PDX


I really think this is the year WN finally does IND-BNA. It seems like a logical add.

IND-LAX probably won't happen because there is too much competition on the route with AA, DL and WN. Plus, I don't think UA expands much more out of LAX other than internationally.

IND-PDX could probably happen on a E75, I would be surprised if AS didn't launch the route this year.

Midwestindy wrote:
2018 Frequency/Mainline predictions:
American: IND-ORD sees mainline year-round
United: IND-EWR sees mainline again


I would be surprised if IND-ORD saw mainline year round. I could be wrong, but it appears AA isn't too keen on adding mainline to routes out of ORD. For whatever reason, cities that should have mainline year round either only see it seasonally (such as IND, IAH, MSY, etc) or don't have it at all (such as BNA, CVG, CMH, etc). Not to sound homerish, but BNA in particular is baffling to me. Considering AA once had a hub here and supposedly, it is still one of AA's largest non-hub stations (though I don't buy that), the lack of AA mainline to ORD (even just seasonally) is odd to say the least.

I did not realize UA does not have any mainline on IND-EWR. That is very surprising, I think that will be rectified pretty soon.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:42 am

^IND-PDX Isn't in range for a E75 or it would already be running. It doesn't matter what the listed range is a full plane doesn't have the range.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:50 am

zackary747 wrote:
Allegiant just started CVG-PVD. Assuming loads are good on that flight, we could see it come here too.


Data for that flight isn't out yet since it started in November.

Indy wrote:
Overall that is a pretty solid list. Just a couple of questions. Providence? Is there enough demand for a flight? I am also curious about Tampa. Didn't DL run that route not long ago? Also, I thought Sun Country mentioned Indy for 2018. But that could have been just talk in an article and the date was just a suggestion.


PVD serves as an alternate for BOS, so it isn't just the PVD market alone.

Tampa I believe was served til 2015, in 2015 it ran Jan-Apr Sat only(TPA-IND 84%:IND-TPA 92%), in 2014 it ran Jan-Dec Sat only(TPA-IND 85%:IND-TPA 89%). This route wasn't a failure, DL just cut a lot of their p2p from IND around the same time (MBJ/NAS/TPA were all cut). I could definitely see it coming back given DL is focusing on p2p again.

I think SY is still a possibility, since they only have announced 1-2 new flights total for 2018

ADrum23 wrote:

I would be surprised if IND-ORD saw mainline year round. I could be wrong, but it appears AA isn't too keen on adding mainline to routes out of ORD. For whatever reason, cities that should have mainline year round either only see it seasonally (such as IND, IAH, MSY, etc) or don't have it at all (such as BNA, CVG, CMH, etc). Not to sound homerish, but BNA in particular is baffling to me. Considering AA once had a hub here and supposedly, it is still one of AA's largest non-hub stations (though I don't buy that), the lack of AA mainline to ORD (even just seasonally) is odd to say the least.

I did not realize UA does not have any mainline on IND-EWR. That is very surprising, I think that will be rectified pretty soon.


AA is just now adding mainline from ORD from February 14th, it was only mainline every once in a while (Thanksgiving/Indy 500/Gen Con/E.t.c) but now they have kept extending the schedule it is running, so I think it is possible it could go year-round. I think AA could successfully run mainline on ORD-BNA/CMH, both markets with higher O&D to Chicago, like you I'd definitely prefer the A319/B737 as opposed to an E145/CR2/e.t.c. But, considering IND/CMH/BNA are all similar sized AA stations, I think if IND gets mainline to ORD, CMH/BNA could follow

IND-EWR was mainline, but they have since cut it back (probably due to WN entering IND-EWR).
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
User avatar
jbpdx
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:00 am

Jshank83 wrote:
^IND-PDX Isn't in range for a E75 or it would already be running. It doesn't matter what the listed range is a full plane doesn't have the range.


The E175s seem to have a max range of ~1,750 mi, from Portland to an arc from Milwaukee to St Louis to Austin. Anything past that needs at least an E190, which AC operates from PDX-YYZ.
Next: AS PDX-MCI-PDX
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:08 am

jbpdx wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
^IND-PDX Isn't in range for a E75 or it would already be running. It doesn't matter what the listed range is a full plane doesn't have the range.


The E175s seem to have a max range of ~1,750 mi, from Portland to an arc from Milwaukee to St Louis to Austin. Anything past that needs at least an E190, which AC operates from PDX-YYZ.


So IND and BNA would need mainline aircraft for service to PDX?
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:14 am

I believe United IND to EWR has been Express for quite a long while, well before Southwest came in. Express does not surprise me but the use of 145's for many of the flights does... *AND* matching Southwest's fares.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:14 am

Midwestindy wrote:
AA is just now adding mainline from ORD from February 14th, it was only mainline every once in a while (Thanksgiving/Indy 500/Gen Con/E.t.c) but now they have kept extending the schedule it is running, so I think it is possible it could go year-round. I think AA could successfully run mainline on ORD-BNA/CMH, both markets with higher O&D to Chicago, like you I'd definitely prefer the A319/B737 as opposed to an E145/CR2/e.t.c. But, considering IND/CMH/BNA are all similar sized AA stations, I think if IND gets mainline to ORD, CMH/BNA could follow.


I hope your right about all the points you made, but I believe it when I see it (as far as AA mainline on BNA-ORD). They haven't even bothered to upgauge to larger RJ's. At the minimum, they should be running a few E75's on that route (same with some of the non-mainline IND flights). It just irritates me because if you want to fly mainline to Chicago, you either have to fly WN into MDW (not exactly convenient for the parts of Chicagoland I go to) or UA, which as a result of their crappy customer service, always gives me and my family problems.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13178
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:19 am

indygs wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Haven't flown IND/BOS but have done IND/LGA plenty of times, and for the past year and a half or so, once a month. Going even across most carriers, I've always come across pretty healthy loads. I think the least amount of people, in a matter of ratio, was a Southwest 737 into LGA with only 97 on board. They've always been full to the brim to/from Newark since they moved over. Fortunately since Southwest left the LGA/IND market and went to EWR, I haven't found highway robbery on fares between the two.


That's awesome to hear. I was on a DL IND-LGA last September that had a grand total of 13 people on a Saturday AM (maybe the 830/9a departure). Not a great sight but as always, could just be an anomaly.


I don’t know IND specifically, but I have a fair amount of experience with LGA in other medium-sized cities, and it has always seemed to me that LGA loads are more variable than loads to other cities. If IND-LGA averages an 80 percent load, which is probably close, I suspect that it has many fewer individual flights with loads between 70 and 90 percent than on some other routes. I think it’s a New York thing.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:41 am

stlgph wrote:
I believe United IND to EWR has been Express for quite a long while, well before Southwest came in. Express does not surprise me but the use of 145's for many of the flights does... *AND* matching Southwest's fares.


I think the route is about 50/50 e145 and e170, which would be rather annoying, but luckily I am not a UA FF. It used to be listed as seasonal mainline on wiki, but that is no longer the case. Btw, I can't imagine they are making much money running $59 fares on that flight, but it might be worth it if they end up running WN off that route in the end.

Cubsrule wrote:
I don’t know IND specifically, but I have a fair amount of experience with LGA in other medium-sized cities, and it has always seemed to me that LGA loads are more variable than loads to other cities. If IND-LGA averages an 80 percent load, which is probably close, I suspect that it has many fewer individual flights with loads between 70 and 90 percent than on some other routes. I think it’s a New York thing.


I don't fly IND-LGA as often as I fly IND-JFK, but flights are mostly around 75-85% full on Mon/Wed/Thurs/Fri, but SAT/SUN/TUE can be anywhere from 45-65% depending on the season. Tomorrow for example IND-LGA is running 2x E170, 1xCR9, 1xA320, and looking at the seat maps(which don't include Basic Economy) the flights are at around 50-60%.
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:48 am

In "some" fairness, I checked a few dates I am looking at for a couple of upcoming trips ... UA matches Southwest on one of their 6 flights for the day. $69 one way (plus bag fee) on one UA flight competing with the Southwest departure at the same time (no bag fee, of course). UA is at $125 or so on the other flights, which is still pretty much a steal, if you ask me.

That being said, Continental used to price its RJ flights OUT of consideration when going up against airlines, such as Southwest, one of its Cleveland routes. For example, if Southwest was selling STL-CLE for $59 one way, Continental would price itself out of the nonstop market to avoid filling up the RJs with $59 fares. I see UA doing this, but not as exhaustively as Continental did.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
indygs
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:19 am

Midwestindy wrote:
I don't fly IND-LGA as often as I fly IND-JFK, but flights are mostly around 75-85% full on Mon/Wed/Thurs/Fri, but SAT/SUN/TUE can be anywhere from 45-65% depending on the season. Tomorrow for example IND-LGA is running 2x E170, 1xCR9, 1xA320, and looking at the seat maps(which don't include Basic Economy) the flights are at around 50-60%.


Looks like the mainline flight is just tomorrow, 1/3, as I don't see it the rest of the schedule, at present. Also, there used to be a 6 or 7p departure to LGA which seems to have been cut at some point, as I don't see it as far out as May/June. Those four departures all look to be a mix of E170s and CR9s.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:36 am

ADrum23 wrote:
So IND and BNA would need mainline aircraft for service to PDX?


Correct. Which is why they both don't have it already. I think if they could do the route on a E75 it already would in service to both.

The longest E75 route that I can find is STL-SFO and it is weight restricted at times going west. It is 1,736 miles. So I would say that is pretty its max.
 
MasterMechE
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:30 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:39 pm

Backtracking to the end of the 2017 thread for a moment:

cvgComair wrote:

flyboy80 wrote:
How fast are the pax numbers growing? Its obvious with the new flights they're increasing YOY. I'm unfamiliar with local pax numbers for IND vs CVG, CLE, CMH and even MCI/STL, but curious how they compare?


All YTD for '16 vs '17:
IND: +2.40%
CVG: +15.70%
CMH: +3.4%
CLE: +6.74%
MCI: +4.38%
STL: +5.70%



So yes IND is growing, but should we not be concerned that it's growing slower than other comparable cities? Why is the growth slower?
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:53 pm

MasterMechE wrote:
Backtracking to the end of the 2017 thread for a moment:

cvgComair wrote:

flyboy80 wrote:
How fast are the pax numbers growing? Its obvious with the new flights they're increasing YOY. I'm unfamiliar with local pax numbers for IND vs CVG, CLE, CMH and even MCI/STL, but curious how they compare?


All YTD for '16 vs '17:
IND: +2.40%
CVG: +15.70%
CMH: +3.4%
CLE: +6.74%
MCI: +4.38%
STL: +5.70%



So yes IND is growing, but should we not be concerned that it's growing slower than other comparable cities? Why is the growth slower?


F9 is mostly bringing the IND numbers down a bit, since they cut both PHL and ATL. They may actually grow a bit in IND from Jan-March, since they added TPA and LAS and made MCO daily, from April onward I am not sure whether they will grow or not.
If you look at the October numbers from IND, basically every other carrier was growing in IND except F9. So by this year you should see INDs numbers come in line with the rest, especially if a new carrier announces service to IND...

CVG's numbers are inflated, since WN added service there last year
CMH should see some decent growth next year with NK adding service
CLE won't see much if any growth since F9 cut around 6 route from there
MCI, should see some normal growth, F9 added a few routes there, but AA and G4 also cut a bit as well
STL, should continue to grow due to WN
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:59 pm

Just curious - I think it was posted in another thread, or the old 2017 buried on Page ((?????)) - but what is the cost of en-planement per passenger for these airports?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
I believe United IND to EWR has been Express for quite a long while, well before Southwest came in. Express does not surprise me but the use of 145's for many of the flights does... *AND* matching Southwest's fares.


I think the route is about 50/50 e145 and e170, which would be rather annoying, but luckily I am not a UA FF. It used to be listed as seasonal mainline on wiki, but that is no longer the case.


It was a 1x daily -700 occasionally bumped up to a -800. Lasted maybe two summers before WN came in.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-DTW, DTW-IND
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:25 pm

stlgph wrote:
Just curious - I think it was posted in another thread, or the old 2017 buried on Page ((?????)) - but what is the cost of en-planement per passenger for these airports?


Idk the 2016/2017 CPE for each of those airports but here is 2015:
viewtopic.php?t=1357825

Here is the website that you can find it at under form 127: https://cats.airports.faa.gov/Reports/reports.cfm
However I don't know how up-to-date it is

For IND, CPE was 10.16 in 2016, 9.35 in 2017, and 8.9 for 2018
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... -18-17.pdf
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:49 pm

For each of the airports latest financial year. All are the most recent via that database listed. Different airports have different end dates.

STL $11.23 (6/30/2017)
MCI $7.16 (4/30/2017)
IND $10.11 (12/31/2016)
CLE $19.70 (12/31/2016)
CMH $7.30 (12/31/2016)
CVG $6.90 (12/31/2016)
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:13 am

November Numbers are up
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... Report.pdf

Nov '16 vs Nov '17
AS-Alaska/Virgin (+100%)
AC-Air Canada (+3.3%)
G4-Allegiant (+12.6%)
AA-American (+8.4%)
DL-Delta (+4.9%)
F9-Frontier (+65.5%)
J1-One Jet (-1.3%)
WN-Southwest (+5.1%)
UA-United (+2.1%)

8.5% growth

YTD
WN-2,657,623
AA-1,794,283
DL-1,791,507
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:21 am

Midwestindy wrote:
November Numbers are up
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... Report.pdf

Nov '16 vs Nov '17
AS-Alaska/Virgin (+100%)
AC-Air Canada (+3.3%)
G4-Allegiant (+12.6%)
AA-American (+8.4%)
DL-Delta (+4.9%)
F9-Frontier (+65.5%)
J1-One Jet (-1.3%)
WN-Southwest (+5.1%)
UA-United (+2.1%)

8.5% growth

YTD
WN-2,657,623
AA-1,794,283
DL-1,791,507


AA's jump I find interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that it would be the biggest gainer of the big 4.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2384
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:03 am

MasterMechE wrote:
Backtracking to the end of the 2017 thread for a moment:

cvgComair wrote:

flyboy80 wrote:
How fast are the pax numbers growing? Its obvious with the new flights they're increasing YOY. I'm unfamiliar with local pax numbers for IND vs CVG, CLE, CMH and even MCI/STL, but curious how they compare?


All YTD for '16 vs '17:
IND: +2.40%
CVG: +15.70%
CMH: +3.4%
CLE: +6.74%
MCI: +4.38%
STL: +5.70%



So yes IND is growing, but should we not be concerned that it's growing slower than other comparable cities? Why is the growth slower?

I wouldn't be concerned. IND has always had pretty impressive yearly pax totals, with growth occurring about commensurate with the growth of the local travel market. In other words IND is basically at equilibrium. CVG and CLE growth rates are especially high as they're still clawing back from hub carrier cuts and a previous high-airfare environment that suppressed demand. Essentially they're recovering towards what IND already has, equilibrium.
 
fedex1
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:21 am

What was the passenger total for IND for 2017 and what was it for 2016??
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1962
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:08 am

Does anyone know how many pilots FedEx has based in IND? I would imagine at least a few hundred, unless for some strange reason there’s not a domicile here. Strangely I’ve never met or seen a FedEx pilot around town or at the airport (assuming many live here for the favorable cost of living, but surely some commute as well)
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:18 am

2017 Passenger figures have not yet been released, but expect around 8,750,000 at current growth rates. 2016 was around 8,500,000.
Interestingly, around 473 PDEW connected through IND in Q3 2017
United has a big discrepancy between around 1650 daily boardings and 1250 PDEW in domestic O/D demand. Do they really carry 400 PDEW internationally?
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next DEN-IND (to be decided) Any suggestions?
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
Indy
Posts: 4701
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:34 am

IND served about 8.5 million passengers last year. Based on YTD numbers (November) the running total was about 8 million. Given the forecast for December, IND should have finished with about 8.7 to 8.8 million passengers served which would shatter the old record. Given the schedule increases for this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see IND hit 9 million passengers for the first time ever.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:11 am

Allegiant has added CHS and SRQ to its route map from IND, I am guessing those are the two routes that were supposed to be announced this year. CHS and SRQ were also added to PIT and CVG.

https://www.allegiantair.com/interactive-routemap
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
User avatar
zackary747
Posts: 455
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:30 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Allegiant has added CHS and SRQ to its route map from IND, I am guessing those are the two routes that were supposed to be announced this year. CHS and SRQ were also added to PIT and CVG.

https://www.allegiantair.com/interactive-routemap


If those six routes are the only ones being added network wide (All of them begin in April, I am not just referring to the IND additions), then I can bet money that they'll have another announcement 1-2 months from now including May, June or, July start-ups. They won't leave those months hanging dry, I can bet that.
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr
 
fedex1
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:36 pm

What does PDEW mean??
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:01 pm

fedex1 wrote:
What does PDEW mean??


Passengers daily each way
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:29 pm

“We’re so excited to announce Indianapolis’s only nonstop travel options to Charleston and Sarasota,” said Lukas Johnson, Allegiant senior vice president of commercial. “Indianapolis is a major city in our network and will soon be a base for Allegiant aircraft and crew. Indy becoming a base opens new opportunities with Allegiant: more flights, more frequency and the potential for more new routes. These two new destinations are just the start for a great future with Indianapolis International Airport and Allegiant.”

Hmmm, what could be next?
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... stinations
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
User avatar
zackary747
Posts: 455
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
“We’re so excited to announce Indianapolis’s only nonstop travel options to Charleston and Sarasota,” said Lukas Johnson, Allegiant senior vice president of commercial. “Indianapolis is a major city in our network and will soon be a base for Allegiant aircraft and crew. Indy becoming a base opens new opportunities with Allegiant: more flights, more frequency and the potential for more new routes. These two new destinations are just the start for a great future with Indianapolis International Airport and Allegiant.”

Hmmm, what could be next?
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... stinations


We can look at CVG/PIT for clues. RDU and PVD can be possible during the winter schedule.
Indianapolis Airport Spotter

Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:59 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
“We’re so excited to announce Indianapolis’s only nonstop travel options to Charleston and Sarasota,” said Lukas Johnson, Allegiant senior vice president of commercial. “Indianapolis is a major city in our network and will soon be a base for Allegiant aircraft and crew. Indy becoming a base opens new opportunities with Allegiant: more flights, more frequency and the potential for more new routes. These two new destinations are just the start for a great future with Indianapolis International Airport and Allegiant.”

Hmmm, what could be next?
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... stinations


We can look at CVG/PIT for clues. RDU and PVD can be possible during the winter schedule.


I would look to CVG, probably not PIT considering IND has more routes and pax than PIT...
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Indy
Posts: 4701
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:31 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
“We’re so excited to announce Indianapolis’s only nonstop travel options to Charleston and Sarasota,” said Lukas Johnson, Allegiant senior vice president of commercial. “Indianapolis is a major city in our network and will soon be a base for Allegiant aircraft and crew. Indy becoming a base opens new opportunities with Allegiant: more flights, more frequency and the potential for more new routes. These two new destinations are just the start for a great future with Indianapolis International Airport and Allegiant.”

Hmmm, what could be next?
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... stinations


Two prime spots in my opinion would be SAN and SJU.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
jetskipper
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:10 pm

Two prime spots in my opinion would be SAN and SJU.[/quote]

San Diego yes, San Juan no. The entire island was decimated by Maria and many of the hotels are still not accepting guests. It will be years before tourism totally recovers.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:43 pm

Good for them for finally jumping on Sarasota. Low hanging fruit which always fared well for ATA and later, AirTran. Allegiant should have no problems filling that up twice a week - shame it's not more than that.

Charleston - unique, fun, add.

San Diego would be fun. I know gate space there is tight, so would be interesting to see/hear what their situation is.

down the road, Newport News/Virginia Beach - something in that general area and South Padre Island would not surprise me. and at the same time, it still would. i'll also throw out Tucson.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Indy
Posts: 4701
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 pm

So now that IND has hit 51 nonstop destinations, what would be a realistic path to 60? Including carriers.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:31 pm

San Antonio - Allegiant/Southwest
Portland - Alaska
Providence - Allegiant
Newport News/Virginia Beach - Allegiant
West Palm Beach - Allegiant/Frontier
Tucson - Allegiant
Montreal - Air Canada Express
Hartford - Onejet
Milwaukee - Onejet
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 37

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos