Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 6:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
No idea, but the gate area around A3-A5 does not have enough seating especially now that they upgraded the seating area there. I was there when DL and F9 were both departing simultaneously which was around 400 people, in a condensed area that has seating for probably around 100 people.

The whole Customs and International section of the airport could have been designed better, it doesn't make much sense to put the international gates in the narrowest part of the concourse considering int'l flights usually utilize the largest aircraft through an airport.


Current IAA leadership tends to make pretty good moves. The seating change that was just made was NOT one of those good moves. That was not well thought out at all. I think the international gates design mess was the brain child of the BAA. I believe they are the ones that insisted on this attached terminal concept, making up a cost increase of $178 million (I believe that was the number) to go with a detached terminal concept. They cited the people mover as the main part of the cost increase. Highly unlikely. They put international gates in the worst possible spot. They basically painted themselves in a corner. They gave the least amount of room for seating and then put the customs and border protection area in the smallest part of the terminal as well. They had absolutely no vision. I can't help but think that if the BAA had gone with the detached terminal concept, we wouldn't be having those issues today. Not only did they go with the worst possible concept for international arrivals, they altered the midfield terminal plan and reduced the space for customs even more. They took the limited space to work with and moved the baggage claim into it. Baggage claim was originally supposed to be out with the rest of the baggage claims. I have no idea how the IAA will fix this mess.
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 7:05 pm

Having been through the area, I would agree it is by far the least well thought-out aspect of the airport. Just the fact that they only have two kiosks for Global Entry cracked me up a bit. I get that we're a small station, but for a relatively new airport it just isn't up to where it ought to be.

If you can imagine, during the inaugural event when the pathways were largely blocked or being kept clear for video camera shots, passengers, including myself at one point, resorted to walking on the raised vents along the windows on the northwest section of the terminal because there's no other pathway among the chairs/seating that's been added. In my view, that's a very poor design.
 
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FLIHGH
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 7:42 pm

Republic also has an announcment on Thursday. Likely go hand in hand.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 7:52 pm

FLIHGH wrote:
Republic also has an announcment on Thursday. Likely go hand in hand.


Source? Time?
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FLIHGH
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 11:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
FLIHGH wrote:
Republic also has an announcment on Thursday. Likely go hand in hand.


Source? Time?

1230. Will be broadcasted on Facebook. Who knows, this may even put Spirit’s BIG announcment a few weeks ago to shame ;)
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 1:27 am

So what can IND do to change the customs / international gates area?

Why only one A side concourse? So Southwest comes in to A-5 and then has to get shuttled around to B?

What could IND do to change the customs or gate area?
 
floridaflyboy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 2:09 pm

Indy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
You might want to do a little research on that. Republic's pilots are at the top of the regional industry in pay and work rules. They're trying to get out ahead of the pilot shortage rather than chasing it. I would not be surprised at all if this is a Republic-related announcement.


I did and honestly I don't care where Republic ranks compared to other regional carriers. I never said they were better or worse than other regions. Being the best of the worst is nothing to be proud of. The point is that regional pilot pay stinks and working conditions across the board are bad. It is why the shortage is limited to regional carriers. The starting pay for pilots with the regional carriers is a joke. Regional carriers have a long way to go and cleaning up the reputation as being a bad place to work is going to take time. Again, this is a self created shortage.


Ah, we've got a regional hater. Shocker. Let's just ignore the fact that Republic's pay and benefits exceed those of several major carriers. Great 401k, some of the best health insurance in the industry, industry leading pay. You're not going to get as much for flying an E170 as you will a mainline aircraft. If you could, the entire regional industry would just fade into the sunset. Not going to happen. Must be rough flying an E170 as a first year FO, making 14% more than a new FO at F9 flying the Airbus. Must be rough being among the only carriers (mainline included) where there is no junior manning. Must be rough being one of the few carriers (mainline included) where you don't have to sit airport standby. According to friends who work over there, they aren't hurting for pilots at all. They're trying to move from appropriate staffing to staffing that will allow for growth. Talk about regional carriers being a joke.
Good goes around!
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 3:12 pm

Also, how does the 500 & 501 loads look so far on Delta?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 4:12 pm

fedex1 wrote:
Also, how does the 500 & 501 loads look so far on Delta?


At or near full on 500, 501 at or below 50% except for the first couple flights which were higher
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 4:33 pm

I sure hope the loads go up for the Paris - IND leg...
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 5:11 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
Ah, we've got a regional hater. Shocker. Let's just ignore the fact that Republic's pay and benefits exceed those of several major carriers. Great 401k, some of the best health insurance in the industry, industry leading pay. You're not going to get as much for flying an E170 as you will a mainline aircraft. If you could, the entire regional industry would just fade into the sunset. Not going to happen. Must be rough flying an E170 as a first year FO, making 14% more than a new FO at F9 flying the Airbus. Must be rough being among the only carriers (mainline included) where there is no junior manning. Must be rough being one of the few carriers (mainline included) where you don't have to sit airport standby. According to friends who work over there, they aren't hurting for pilots at all. They're trying to move from appropriate staffing to staffing that will allow for growth. Talk about regional carriers being a joke.


Regional hater? It is called having a grip on reality. There is a reason why the shortage has hit regional carriers and not mainline carriers. Why is that? If you do a little digging you will find the answer to that. There are plenty of stories that talk about this very problem.
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ncflyer
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 5:12 pm

Give it time-- those 100% people leaving Indy have to get back somehow. I doubt there are many once a day flights with a 10% load differential on outbound and inbound, let alone a 50%. If I were hoping for anything, it would be that the 100% continues, because this route will surely be more dependent on IND originating traffic.

Also, since this is not a flight depending on connections, it surely can't be the case that the outbound flight to CDG has better connection opportunities than the flight back.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 5:23 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
So what do we consider to be a focus city? DL already serves MCO, RSW, MIA and RDU in addition to two international destinations (CUN and CDG). They have to be one of the front runners for the Asia service as well.


I think if IND gets above 50 departures with some additional p2p flights it will be officially considered a focus city.
1xAUS
1xBDL
1xSAT
2xSLC
2xLAX
1xRSW (Seasonally daily)
1xTPA (Seasonally daily)
1xLAS
Would get close to 50, if you add in well timed feeder flights to MEM, JAX, MSY, and MKE which might have potential as well than you would be over 50.


DL also used to serve DFW nonstop from IND back when it had a hub at DFW, and DL could possibly also bring back IND-DFW nonstop service if it is planning on adding nonstop service to additional destinations from IND.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 10:00 pm

Currently on IND-CDG, looks around 95% full. Will provide a trip report once I️ get the chance.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 10:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Currently on IND-CDG, looks around 95% full. Will provide a trip report once I️ get the chance.


Are you talking about YouTube trip report? If so, I wanna see that!
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 11:47 pm

fedex1 wrote:
So what can IND do to change the customs / international gates area?

Why only one A side concourse? So Southwest comes in to A-5 and then has to get shuttled around to B?

What could IND do to change the customs or gate area?


I don't know what they can do to fix this. They really painted themselves into a corner. I thought perhaps they could move the international arrivals gates to A6 and A8 but that really isn't any better. There are maybe 120-140 seats there for those 2 gates. I don't think there is a gate in the airport with adequate seating for a full 767. There certainly isn't a 2 gate combo anywhere in the airport that can even come close to providing enough seating for two flights going out (think recent DL and F9). 120-140 seats for 350-400 pax isn't good planning. They could widen the end of the A concourse taking it over the service road and parking area. But that would be expensive and I doubt they do that just so people have a place to sit. I think once the end of the A concourse is expanded (whenever that will be), they should just make a 3rd international gate and leave it at that. Just 3 gates at that end. The same number you have now, but all international, more room, and a lot more seating. That is the really the best they can do for a solution. As for customs, they will need to rearrange the space they have and move the baggage claim out of their limited space and use one of the existing baggage claims the way RDU does.

Perhaps those combined solutions can overcome most of their design woes.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 12:38 am

Indy wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
So what can IND do to change the customs / international gates area?

Why only one A side concourse? So Southwest comes in to A-5 and then has to get shuttled around to B?

What could IND do to change the customs or gate area?


I don't know what they can do to fix this. They really painted themselves into a corner. I thought perhaps they could move the international arrivals gates to A6 and A8 but that really isn't any better. There are maybe 120-140 seats there for those 2 gates. I don't think there is a gate in the airport with adequate seating for a full 767. There certainly isn't a 2 gate combo anywhere in the airport that can even come close to providing enough seating for two flights going out (think recent DL and F9). 120-140 seats for 350-400 pax isn't good planning. They could widen the end of the A concourse taking it over the service road and parking area. But that would be expensive and I doubt they do that just so people have a place to sit. I think once the end of the A concourse is expanded (whenever that will be), they should just make a 3rd international gate and leave it at that. Just 3 gates at that end. The same number you have now, but all international, more room, and a lot more seating. That is the really the best they can do for a solution. As for customs, they will need to rearrange the space they have and move the baggage claim out of their limited space and use one of the existing baggage claims the way RDU does.

Perhaps those combined solutions can overcome most of their design woes.


Well, perhaps the expansion of the terminal like the master plan says can open up the option to expand the customs facility with it.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 12:46 am

fedex1 wrote:
I sure hope the loads go up for the Paris - IND leg...


Gotta keep in mind like I said before. IND-CDG is mostly O&D business demand. When a route first starts up, it takes awhile to create that consistent 'full circle'. If you look at July the returning loads look great. People aren't going to cross the pond back to IND right when they get over. It's just the nature of things, and Delta knew this right off the bat. Assuming the IND to CDG portion stays full once that full circle back is established come late June and July the flight will fully stabilize both ways. This is 100 percent normal for O&D demand start-ups. As long as the flight to CDG stays full the returning flight will catch up very soon.
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floridaflyboy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 12:16 pm

Indy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
Ah, we've got a regional hater. Shocker. Let's just ignore the fact that Republic's pay and benefits exceed those of several major carriers. Great 401k, some of the best health insurance in the industry, industry leading pay. You're not going to get as much for flying an E170 as you will a mainline aircraft. If you could, the entire regional industry would just fade into the sunset. Not going to happen. Must be rough flying an E170 as a first year FO, making 14% more than a new FO at F9 flying the Airbus. Must be rough being among the only carriers (mainline included) where there is no junior manning. Must be rough being one of the few carriers (mainline included) where you don't have to sit airport standby. According to friends who work over there, they aren't hurting for pilots at all. They're trying to move from appropriate staffing to staffing that will allow for growth. Talk about regional carriers being a joke.


Regional hater? It is called having a grip on reality. There is a reason why the shortage has hit regional carriers and not mainline carriers. Why is that? If you do a little digging you will find the answer to that. There are plenty of stories that talk about this very problem.


Reality? LMAO. Not sure what world you live in. Think about it. The only reason the shortage is hitting the regionals harder is because they ARE the pool the mainline carriers are hiring from. If the regional pilot pool dried up tomorrow, guess what? Mainline would have the same trouble hiring. You can also see a direct correlation between which regionals are hit the hardest versus which ones aren't (i.e. hitting Mesa harder than Republic and SkyWest).

You have not provided one single fact. You just keep telling me to go do the research. I'm the only one who's throwing out points and have plenty more where those come from. It is a FACT that the work rules at Republic meet or exceed those of several mainline carriers. The pay scales are available to you right there on APC.

Throw me some facts to support your argument or you have no credibility whatsoever, you're just tossing out your opinion.
Good goes around!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 1:11 pm

WN schedule is quite interesting, Around Christmas time they have a 5:00am MCO flight, 5:15am RSW, 5:30am TPA, 5:50am FLL
Looking around the Holiday Breaks portion of the schedule
On Saturday MCO goes up to 5x daily from 3x daily
On Saturday RSW goes up to 4x daily from 3x daily

MSY continues Sun only, CUN continues Sat only, and AUS continues Sun only with the exception of a few days
DAL/FLL alternate between 1-3x daily during Thanksgiving/Christmas periods, BWI goes up to 4x daily during these period
IND-EWR/BOS go down to 1x daily

Probably missed some stuff but that is probably most of it
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 2:16 pm

Not surprised WN is cutting EWR and BOS. Wonder if B6 is smelling a shot yet or if DL is still too much to reckon with on the route.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 4:59 pm

Looks like Republic is building a new pilot training center at IND.

https://flywithlift.com/

I haven't had a chance to look over the site much yet but apparently it is going to run around $65k to become a pilot.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 5:12 pm

Indy wrote:
Looks like Republic is building a new pilot training center at IND.

https://flywithlift.com/

I haven't had a chance to look over the site much yet but apparently it is going to run around $65k to become a pilot.


https://mailchi.mp/iedc/newsrepublic-ai ... in-indiana

"Governor Eric J. Holcomb, Indianapolis Mayor Joe Hogsett and officials from the Indianapolis Airport Authority joined executives from Republic Airways, an Indianapolis-based regional airline, today as the company announced plans to establish a U.S.-based flight training academy in Indianapolis that will train hundreds of students and aviation professionals each year. With its growth, the company also plans to create more than 600 new, full-time jobs in Indiana by 2028."

"Republic Airways Holdings will construct a new, state-of-the-art commercial aviation pilot training campus at the Indianapolis International Airport (IND). The training center, known as the Leadership In Flight Training (LIFT) Academy, will be one of the largest aviation training schools in the U.S. with the potential to train 300-400 students each year, helping make a career as a commercial pilot more accessible and filling the need for a greater supply of pilots in Indiana and nationwide."

"Republic Airways, headquartered in Indiana, employs more than 5,500 aviation professionals, including more than 1,450 located in Indiana. To support its growth and the LIFT Academy, the company plans to expand its Indiana-based workforce over the next 10 years, hiring full-time pilots, highly-skilled mechanics, specialized training professionals and IT professionals. "
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 8:27 pm

Where will it be located?

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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:54 am

Midwestindy wrote:
WN schedule is quite interesting, Around Christmas time they have a 5:00am MCO flight, 5:15am RSW, 5:30am TPA, 5:50am FLL
Looking around the Holiday Breaks portion of the schedule
On Saturday MCO goes up to 5x daily from 3x daily
On Saturday RSW goes up to 4x daily from 3x daily

MSY continues Sun only, CUN continues Sat only, and AUS continues Sun only with the exception of a few days
DAL/FLL alternate between 1-3x daily during Thanksgiving/Christmas periods, BWI goes up to 4x daily during these period
IND-EWR/BOS go down to 1x daily

Probably missed some stuff but that is probably most of it


Shame Southwest isn't doing so hot to Boston to Newark but at least they are still there.
The 730am departure to Newark on Sunday after Thanksgiving is going to suck, but hey, whatever.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:29 am

stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
WN schedule is quite interesting, Around Christmas time they have a 5:00am MCO flight, 5:15am RSW, 5:30am TPA, 5:50am FLL
Looking around the Holiday Breaks portion of the schedule
On Saturday MCO goes up to 5x daily from 3x daily
On Saturday RSW goes up to 4x daily from 3x daily

MSY continues Sun only, CUN continues Sat only, and AUS continues Sun only with the exception of a few days
DAL/FLL alternate between 1-3x daily during Thanksgiving/Christmas periods, BWI goes up to 4x daily during these period
IND-EWR/BOS go down to 1x daily

Probably missed some stuff but that is probably most of it


Shame Southwest isn't doing so hot to Boston to Newark but at least they are still there.
The 730am departure to Newark on Sunday after Thanksgiving is going to suck, but hey, whatever.


It looks like IND-BOS will be 1x daily starting in September, IND-EWR will be 1x daily starting after Thanksgiving (I expect this 1x daily will continue until April).

I have done some research on the BOS flight
The BOS flight is interesting, because last November they ran it 2x daily during the week (1x737, 1x738)
-The evening 737 flight did really well with a LF of 85.4%
-The morning 738 flight did terribly with a LF of 44.0%
Here is the September EWR flight as well.
-The evening 737 flight did fine with a LF of 76.0%
-The morning 738 flight did terribly with a LF of 33.8%

Eliminating the extra flight in the morning will allow them to be a lot more profitable on this route and will mean the LF will dramatically increase. I found this exact same phenomenon on the IND-EWR flight, where the morning flight did terribly and the evening flight did well. Therefore WN is keeping the afternoon/evening flights to both EWR/BOS.




My question is who is going to be taking a 5am flight to Orlando? Especially considering most people going to MCO are families

I also noticed on the 17th of Nov they will be up to 41 departures, but as a result they added in 3 departures after 10pm (MCO-10:15, DEN/DAL-10:30) and added as I mentioned added 4 flights departing before 6am. They will almost be running a 24hour operation considering they have arrivals at 1:45am and departures starting at 5am some days.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:26 pm

I've noticed several other cities with 5am-ish flights on Southwest. Milwaukee to Orlando on Southwest instantly comes to mind.
It seems like a pain in the ass, but when it's said and done, it's pretty easy. Get up way early, have your bags packed, set off for the airport, traffic (usually) isn't a problem ((road construction issues???)) parking is pretty easy, check in is pretty easy, security is pretty easy, get on, sit down, and away you go.
Most of the time everyone falls asleep and makes for an easy transit.
Hell the other day I flew LGA to MDW at 645 in the morning and while the plane was full, flight attendants said only 11 or so of us were awake for the drink service. Made it really convenient to keep slamming back bloody marys and coffees. ;p
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:59 pm

TBCH, 5am MCO flights don’t sound too attractive, that means you’d have to wake up before 3am. Last time I had a flight that left MCO-ATL at 5am, I pulled an all nighter. Kids won’t and shouldn’t be doing that lol.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:13 pm

Could a 5am flight be attractive for cruise passengers sailing out of Port Canaveral? You depart at 5am and get there at 7am. Allow time to get your bags and then take a shuttle to the port. Hmmm... that probably gets you there far too early. You would get to the port by 10am and that is well before boarding time. Another possibility is that a 5am flight allows for a day trip to Disney. You could be there in time for the park to open and then take the late flight home. That would be an exhausting day and not sure how much fun it would be. I am grasping here.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:13 pm

Trust me, I, myself would rather a 5am flight if I could, especially during the holidays.
Living in NYC, huge fan of the after 10pm flights to ...well, anywhere.
Just so much easier.

At that rate, you could just leave the kiddies in their pajamas.
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NB1231
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:36 pm

Howdy everyone,

Just a few minutes ago DL2962 just took off with a 757-200. Is this a common occurrence? Seems like a decent sized plane for a relatively short-haul flight.

Thank you!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:39 pm

NB1231 wrote:
Howdy everyone,

Just a few minutes ago DL2962 just took off with a 757-200. Is this a common occurrence? Seems like a decent sized plane for a relatively short-haul flight.

Thank you!


Very common, in fact DL runs the 752 on IND-MSP/ATL/DTW seasonally and seasonally they run the A321 and 739ER on IND-DTW/MSP/ATL
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NB1231
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
NB1231 wrote:
Howdy everyone,

Just a few minutes ago DL2962 just took off with a 757-200. Is this a common occurrence? Seems like a decent sized plane for a relatively short-haul flight.

Thank you!


Very common, in fact DL runs the 752 on IND-MSP/ATL/DTW seasonally and seasonally they run the A321 and 739ER on IND-DTW/MSP/ATL


Interesting, I didn’t know that! Thank you for the help! Also I barely missed the Alaska flight that runs with a Virgin America 319, how common is this? And why is it run with VA but under AS? Thanks!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:04 pm

NB1231 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
NB1231 wrote:
Howdy everyone,

Just a few minutes ago DL2962 just took off with a 757-200. Is this a common occurrence? Seems like a decent sized plane for a relatively short-haul flight.

Thank you!


Very common, in fact DL runs the 752 on IND-MSP/ATL/DTW seasonally and seasonally they run the A321 and 739ER on IND-DTW/MSP/ATL


Interesting, I didn’t know that! Thank you for the help! Also I barely missed the Alaska flight that runs with a Virgin America 319, how common is this? And why is it run with VA but under AS? Thanks!


It is run 6x weeky-daily on the A320, I believe it is run with VX because the Alaska brand wants most of the Transcon flying on the old Virgin America aircraft
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NB1231
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
NB1231 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Very common, in fact DL runs the 752 on IND-MSP/ATL/DTW seasonally and seasonally they run the A321 and 739ER on IND-DTW/MSP/ATL


Interesting, I didn’t know that! Thank you for the help! Also I barely missed the Alaska flight that runs with a Virgin America 319, how common is this? And why is it run with VA but under AS? Thanks!


It is run 6x weeky-daily on the A320, I believe it is run with VX because the Alaska brand wants most of the Transcon flying on the old Virgin America aircraft



Thank you for all of your help!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:49 pm

Here are the largest int'l O&D markets from IND (all of 2016 average):
Bolded markets have service
1) CUN - 76 PDEW
2) LON - 43
3) YYZ - 37
4) MBJ - 29
5) FRA - 23
6) SJD - 21
7) MEX - 19
8) NAS - 18
9) PVG - 16
10) ICN - 14
10) CDG - 14
12) PEK - 12
12) YUL - 12
12) NRT - 12
12) YVR - 12
16) FCO - 10
17) PUJ - 9
17) GRU - 9
17) AUA - 9
20) PVR - 8
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:11 am

Honestly none of those numbers look remotely correct. I cannot image we'd have CDG service if the true number was only 14. How certain are you of the accuracy of those numbers?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:36 am

Indy wrote:
Honestly none of those numbers look remotely correct. I cannot image we'd have CDG service if the true number was only 14. How certain are you of the accuracy of those numbers?


It's an average for the entire year. For example the demand to CUN, MBJ, SJD, and NAS is likely significantly higher on Saturdays and during Spring/Winter travel seasons, the weekdays and travel off-seasons lower the average PDEW.

In addition, the CDG PDEW isn't stimulated yet, once the service gets going the year-round PDEW will likely rise into the 20s or lower 30s (similar to RDU/PIT/e.t.c) with the PDEW being much higher than that in the summer. Remember though the point of these flights are connections onward through CDG, not O&D. When I flew the flight this week a majority of the passengers where connecting onward to India, Italy, and other portions of Europe. Therefore while the O&D will help the route, it is the connections that matter the most.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:37 am

Just hope Air France don't mess things up with the labor issues

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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:48 am

Midwestindy wrote:
It's an average for the entire year. For example the demand to CUN, MBJ, SJD, and NAS is likely significantly higher on Saturdays and during Spring/Winter travel seasons, the weekdays and travel off-seasons lower the average PDEW.

In addition, the CDG PDEW isn't stimulated yet, once the service gets going the year-round PDEW will likely rise into the 20s or lower 30s (similar to RDU/PIT/e.t.c) with the PDEW being much higher than that in the summer. Remember though the point of these flights are connections onward through CDG, not O&D. When I flew the flight this week a majority of the passengers where connecting onward to India, Italy, and other portions of Europe. Therefore while the O&D will help the route, it is the connections that matter the most.


I don't remember where in the thread the discussion was (might even have been the 2017 thread) but I feel like the London numbers listed were significantly higher. Like 3 times higher or so.
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LAXdude1023
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:58 am

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
It's an average for the entire year. For example the demand to CUN, MBJ, SJD, and NAS is likely significantly higher on Saturdays and during Spring/Winter travel seasons, the weekdays and travel off-seasons lower the average PDEW.

In addition, the CDG PDEW isn't stimulated yet, once the service gets going the year-round PDEW will likely rise into the 20s or lower 30s (similar to RDU/PIT/e.t.c) with the PDEW being much higher than that in the summer. Remember though the point of these flights are connections onward through CDG, not O&D. When I flew the flight this week a majority of the passengers where connecting onward to India, Italy, and other portions of Europe. Therefore while the O&D will help the route, it is the connections that matter the most.


I don't remember where in the thread the discussion was (might even have been the 2017 thread) but I feel like the London numbers listed were significantly higher. Like 3 times higher or so.


If IND-LHR were over 120 PDEW (which is what you're suggesting), it would have had nonstop service many years ago. 120 PDEW is about the size of a market like ORD-HKG or IAH-CDG.

As far as the IND-CDG flight goes, its not an O&D flight. It was never supposed to be. Its supposed to connect IND to Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and everywhere AF flies. IND-CDG will probably double in size due to market stimulation but thats it.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:13 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
It's an average for the entire year. For example the demand to CUN, MBJ, SJD, and NAS is likely significantly higher on Saturdays and during Spring/Winter travel seasons, the weekdays and travel off-seasons lower the average PDEW.

In addition, the CDG PDEW isn't stimulated yet, once the service gets going the year-round PDEW will likely rise into the 20s or lower 30s (similar to RDU/PIT/e.t.c) with the PDEW being much higher than that in the summer. Remember though the point of these flights are connections onward through CDG, not O&D. When I flew the flight this week a majority of the passengers where connecting onward to India, Italy, and other portions of Europe. Therefore while the O&D will help the route, it is the connections that matter the most.


I don't remember where in the thread the discussion was (might even have been the 2017 thread) but I feel like the London numbers listed were significantly higher. Like 3 times higher or so.


If IND-LHR were over 120 PDEW (which is what you're suggesting), it would have had nonstop service many years ago. 120 PDEW is about the size of a market like ORD-HKG or IAH-CDG.

As far as the IND-CDG flight goes, its not an O&D flight. It was never supposed to be. Its supposed to connect IND to Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and everywhere AF flies. IND-CDG will probably double in size due to market stimulation but thats it.


Yeah that was my thinking as well, I think the connections will be important for the viability of the flight. London, Frankfurt, Rome, and Paris was 90 PDEW alone, and probably significantly higher in the summer. Now those key markets will be stimulated plus the addition other connections should mean this flight has a large market to tap into.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:51 pm

It looks like AA is extending its Summer schedule from IND
IND-DFW will be all 738 starting on August 20th-Day after Labor Day
IND-PHL will be all E175
IND-ORD will be 2x738
IND-CLT will be 2xA319
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Just talked to a friend who flew CDG-IND on Sunday:
    Customs area was small
    Two booths were open, plus one for handicapped, so the line was very long
    A few people were having trouble with global entry, but my friend got theirs to work so they didn't have to wait in the line
    Bags took 20 minutes to come out
    Wasn't conducive for connections, considering they drop you off in the baggage claim area
------
Also just looked through G4's schedule, and a few things aren't adding up
1. Even though there are 3 aircraft based in IND, there appears to be only 2 flights on Tuesdays and Wednesdays on the days I checked for November. One flight a day is a morning departure, that returns at Midday and isn't scheduled to fly again for the rest of the day, the other flight is with an aircraft not based in IND. There are a a few other "holes" in their schedule, so I wouldn't be surprised if they announce something new this month (last year they announced IND-AZA in June). Considering how tight they are on aircraft, I doubt they will have multiple aircraft sitting around idle for 2 days.
------
Looked at the IND spotter page today, unofficially FedEx is adding 4 777 gates this year, 8 next year, 20 gates near the midfield section, and adding more int'l flights
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nikeson13
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:19 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Just talked to a friend who flew CDG-IND on Sunday:
    Customs area was small
    Two booths were open, plus one for handicapped, so the line was very long
    A few people were having trouble with global entry, but my friend got theirs to work so they didn't have to wait in the line
    Bags took 20 minutes to come out
    Wasn't conducive for connections, considering they drop you off in the baggage claim area

Fixing customs should be #1 for IND if it isn't already. SJC customs area was in a similar state (small, slow, etc) when it first started getting long-haul flights, but since they have fixed the issue by remodeling and expanding the customs area, and its great now! IND can do the same.
Midwestindy wrote:
Looked at the IND spotter page today, unofficially FedEx is adding 4 777 gates this year, 8 next year, 20 gates near the midfield section, and adding more int'l flights

Makes sense, work with the room they have midfield (where future terminal expansion would probably be as well) and expand with an expensive 3rd parallel runway and ramp across I-70 in the future when traffic makes it necessary. They have been moving tons of dirt the last few months SW of the current ramp and a building is also being built.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:01 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Just talked to a friend who flew CDG-IND on Sunday:
    Customs area was small
    Two booths were open, plus one for handicapped, so the line was very long
    A few people were having trouble with global entry, but my friend got theirs to work so they didn't have to wait in the line
    Bags took 20 minutes to come out
    Wasn't conducive for connections, considering they drop you off in the baggage claim area
------
Also just looked through G4's schedule, and a few things aren't adding up
1. Even though there are 3 aircraft based in IND, there appears to be only 2 flights on Tuesdays and Wednesdays on the days I checked for November. One flight a day is a morning departure, that returns at Midday and isn't scheduled to fly again for the rest of the day, the other flight is with an aircraft not based in IND. There are a a few other "holes" in their schedule, so I wouldn't be surprised if they announce something new this month (last year they announced IND-AZA in June). Considering how tight they are on aircraft, I doubt they will have multiple aircraft sitting around idle for 2 days.
------
Looked at the IND spotter page today, unofficially FedEx is adding 4 777 gates this year, 8 next year, 20 gates near the midfield section, and adding more int'l flights



Is the picture of the customs area still on here somewhere? Is it in this thread?
Not too worried about being dropped off in the baggage area - similar deal at a number of airports. That shouldn't be a major deterrent for transits.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:48 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Just talked to a friend who flew CDG-IND on Sunday:
    Customs area was small
    Two booths were open, plus one for handicapped, so the line was very long
    A few people were having trouble with global entry, but my friend got theirs to work so they didn't have to wait in the line
    Bags took 20 minutes to come out
    Wasn't conducive for connections, considering they drop you off in the baggage claim area


Imagine what kind of mess this can be on Saturday when you have CDG and CUN arriving minutes apart. This really needs to be fixed before or a fix needs to be well into the planning stage before any more international service is added. Imagine how embarrassing this setup would be if/when we get Asia service and we have a full flight from Japan and that is their first impression of our city. I knew when I first saw the pics of the U.S. Customs area from the airport tour that this just wasn't going to work out.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:52 am

stlgph wrote:
Is the picture of the customs area still on here somewhere? Is it in this thread?
Not too worried about being dropped off in the baggage area - similar deal at a number of airports. That shouldn't be a major deterrent for transits.


Is this what you are looking for?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] ... 2/sizes/l/
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:26 am

Yes.
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msycajun
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:46 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Also just looked through G4's schedule, and a few things aren't adding up
1. Even though there are 3 aircraft based in IND, there appears to be only 2 flights on Tuesdays and Wednesdays on the days I checked for November. One flight a day is a morning departure, that returns at Midday and isn't scheduled to fly again for the rest of the day, the other flight is with an aircraft not based in IND. There are a a few other "holes" in their schedule, so I wouldn't be surprised if they announce something new this month (last year they announced IND-AZA in June). Considering how tight they are on aircraft, I doubt they will have multiple aircraft sitting around idle for 2 days.


That shouldn't be surprising. G4 runs dramatically fewer flights on Tues/Wed than the rest of the week and a lot of planes sit idle those days. Just because they are tight on planes Thurs-Mon, doesn't mean they will add new markets on Tues/Wed. Very little leisure demand and difficult to fill planes on those days.

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