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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:16 pm

Also I just came back this morning and saw an AN-124 parked near the old terminal site. Is that a charter to bring in an engine to FedEx or something?
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:43 pm

Just asking, why would 100% load factors indicate your doing something wrong?
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:53 pm

fedex1 wrote:
Just asking, why would 100% load factors indicate your doing something wrong?


There are two angles to take it from. First strictly financially speaking - if you hit 100% load factor then you should have charged more, thus you missed out on revenue. Customer service speaking, planes which are consistantly full come with a set of problems, for instance you probably had a some oversales. Also if you are consistantly 100% full then you have no wiggle room for irregular operations. This combination leads customers to be unhappy. In the latter days of ATA it was common for the west coast to Hawaii flights to have 100% load factors for weeks on end.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:03 pm

kindeham wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
Just asking, why would 100% load factors indicate your doing something wrong?


There are two angles to take it from. First strictly financially speaking - if you hit 100% load factor then you should have charged more, thus you missed out on revenue. Customer service speaking, planes which are consistantly full come with a set of problems, for instance you probably had a some oversales. Also if you are consistantly 100% full then you have no wiggle room for irregular operations. This combination leads customers to be unhappy. In the latter days of ATA it was common for the west coast to Hawaii flights to have 100% load factors for weeks on end.


ATA is a fine example of where many, many flights and routes were at 100% load factors.
And look at how much of a mess they sadly came into.

Also, another way of looking at it is that if you have 100% load factors on Indianapolis to Paris, which, let's admit, is not a Tier 1 route (you know, such as New York-Paris, Boston-Paris) or a Tier 2 route (say Seattle-Paris), etc. you're doing something wrong not for the fact that you are flying or offering Indianapolis to Paris, but you completely misjudged your market and you are suddenly scrambling to figure out what other opportunities you may have missed.
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:10 pm

Gotcha, your reasons make complete sense to me! Thank you for explaining those (2) takes.

What would make Dekta extend the daily service to CDG?

I think ( probably wrong ) flyPIT said they ( PIT ) had the service level IND has for the flight until the (2) year $$ went away, and it’s only been seasonal PIT-CDG since. . . Do we see that happening with IND as well?!?
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:13 pm

fedex1 wrote:
Gotcha, your reasons make complete sense to me! Thank you for explaining those (2) takes.

What would make Dekta extend the daily service to CDG?

I think ( probably wrong ) flyPIT said they ( PIT ) had the service level IND has for the flight until the (2) year $$ went away, and it’s only been seasonal PIT-CDG since. . . Do we see that happening with IND as well?!?


If I am not mistaken IND has more cargo to offer than PIT, so that would be the difference maker. We offer the same cargo that CVG offers for our Paris flight, and that is a big money maker for Delta. GE, FedEx cargo, and more that I don't know about.

When that flight was cancelled they sent in two 767s the day after. One of those 767s had nothing but cargo.
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filbrkz
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:58 pm

AA is really ramping up this fall:

IND-ORD is getting the B738 in October and as I mentioned earlier, they are going down to 1 daily 50 seater


the 737 is already flying IND-ORD, flight 1484 departs IND 402pm. Looks like it started on 7 June. Great to see!
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:05 pm

stlgph wrote:
kindeham wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
Just asking, why would 100% load factors indicate your doing something wrong?


There are two angles to take it from. First strictly financially speaking - if you hit 100% load factor then you should have charged more, thus you missed out on revenue. Customer service speaking, planes which are consistantly full come with a set of problems, for instance you probably had a some oversales. Also if you are consistantly 100% full then you have no wiggle room for irregular operations. This combination leads customers to be unhappy. In the latter days of ATA it was common for the west coast to Hawaii flights to have 100% load factors for weeks on end.


ATA is a fine example of where many, many flights and routes were at 100% load factors.
And look at how much of a mess they sadly came into.

Also, another way of looking at it is that if you have 100% load factors on Indianapolis to Paris, which, let's admit, is not a Tier 1 route (you know, such as New York-Paris, Boston-Paris) or a Tier 2 route (say Seattle-Paris), etc. you're doing something wrong not for the fact that you are flying or offering Indianapolis to Paris, but you completely misjudged your market and you are suddenly scrambling to figure out what other opportunities you may have missed.


Some of ATA's Hawaii routes actually had months where the internal numbers showed load factors as high as 102-103% for the entire month - I never did figure out where those other people went, in the lav maybe?
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:23 pm

kindeham wrote:
stlgph wrote:
kindeham wrote:

There are two angles to take it from. First strictly financially speaking - if you hit 100% load factor then you should have charged more, thus you missed out on revenue. Customer service speaking, planes which are consistantly full come with a set of problems, for instance you probably had a some oversales. Also if you are consistantly 100% full then you have no wiggle room for irregular operations. This combination leads customers to be unhappy. In the latter days of ATA it was common for the west coast to Hawaii flights to have 100% load factors for weeks on end.


ATA is a fine example of where many, many flights and routes were at 100% load factors.
And look at how much of a mess they sadly came into.

Also, another way of looking at it is that if you have 100% load factors on Indianapolis to Paris, which, let's admit, is not a Tier 1 route (you know, such as New York-Paris, Boston-Paris) or a Tier 2 route (say Seattle-Paris), etc. you're doing something wrong not for the fact that you are flying or offering Indianapolis to Paris, but you completely misjudged your market and you are suddenly scrambling to figure out what other opportunities you may have missed.


Some of ATA's Hawaii routes actually had months where the internal numbers showed load factors as high as 102-103% for the entire month - I never did figure out where those other people went, in the lav maybe?

Probably booked load factor numbers, where thy subsequently bumped that 2-3% of overflow demand off to a flown ~100% load factor.

A high load factor in one direction cann still choke an empty return flight, because most people?... won't book unless they can go round-trip.
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filbrkz
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:04 pm

indygs wrote:
FWIW, a data point on DL500/501. Flew DL500 on Monday and flight wasn't too full, probably about 50 to 60 open seats in coach and handful in Delta One. Return, DL501, much more full, empty seats were few and far between in coach and Comfort + had about 8 or 9.

Interestingly, about 7-8 passengers that I noticed connected in IND and continued onward to DTW off DL501. They were a bit confused as there's no signage at all at IND to explain to connecting passengers how to get back to a TSA line. Furthermore, IND has been blocking A concourse access after about 5p onward for Pre-Check only which just seems stupid, not only for someone connecting internationally, but in general. So they needed a bit of guidance, far more than could be provided by the DL agent at the bottom of the stairs inside customs. To the point that Delta has been making, it does seem that at least on a small level, connecting itineraries are being offered via IND. These passengers all flew BEY-CDG-IND-DTW.

It also seems there's some kind of bug with DL's fleet of 763s. Aside from the fact that they're 20+ years old, they've alternated nights leaving on time and then 1.5 hrs late this past week. I believe T, Th and then again tonight the flight won't reach CDG until about 10a. Hope its only temporary--with connections onward from CDG to places like CPT, JNB, DEL, etc. w/ one flight a day, that delay could be the difference between a more convoluted routing or an extra night along the way.


Thanks for the info- great that there are connections off of 501! I don't see the challenge for those people, they just follow the signs and go to the ticket counters/kiosks/TSA. if someone has an issue, I'll bet that there's a DL rep in the Customs area.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:15 am

filbrkz wrote:
AA is really ramping up this fall:

IND-ORD is getting the B738 in October and as I mentioned earlier, they are going down to 1 daily 50 seater


the 737 is already flying IND-ORD, flight 1484 departs IND 402pm. Looks like it started on 7 June. Great to see!


Yeah it actually started in late February, but it wasn't loaded yet for October so that's why I mentioned it

SumChristianus wrote:
Will WN cuts hurt overall IND passenger numbers/growth or will AA/DL/UA/G4/F9/B6 pick up the slack?


Just checked the F9/G4 growth
August
F9=14.0%
G4=35.00%
September
F9=44.20%
G4=53.40%
October
F9=57.70%
G4=40.20%
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:02 am

filbrkz wrote:
indygs wrote:
Thanks for the info- great that there are connections off of 501! I don't see the challenge for those people, they just follow the signs and go to the ticket counters/kiosks/TSA. if someone has an issue, I'll bet that there's a DL rep in the Customs area.


So the signage as you exit right now largely says "Welcome to Indianapolis" and then you're spit out on the southwest corner of the baggage claim area. The DL reps are right as you deplane, before you go through customs, etc. I do think it would be wise to put up a sign as you exit that shows a quick map and illustrates how you go up to the check-in/ticketing level and basically an acknowledgment that unlike other places, you've got to start the process anew. For someone not accustomed to our airport and potentially a non-English speaker, for where they're dropped off, I can see why some on Friday were confused.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:09 am

indygs wrote:
filbrkz wrote:
indygs wrote:
Thanks for the info- great that there are connections off of 501! I don't see the challenge for those people, they just follow the signs and go to the ticket counters/kiosks/TSA. if someone has an issue, I'll bet that there's a DL rep in the Customs area.


So the signage as you exit right now largely says "Welcome to Indianapolis" and then you're spit out on the southwest corner of the baggage claim area. The DL reps are right as you deplane, before you go through customs, etc. I do think it would be wise to put up a sign as you exit that shows a quick map and illustrates how you go up to the check-in/ticketing level and basically an acknowledgment that unlike other places, you've got to start the process anew. For someone not accustomed to our airport and potentially a non-English speaker, for where they're dropped off, I can see why some on Friday were confused.


That's what I was thinking
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:49 am

I will ask this same question here. . . CMH has cargo opportunities correct? If that is so, why would Delta ( presumably ) flew a 757 as mentioned in the “rest of Ohio” thread to CMH-CDG / AMS instead of a 767 like they did IND? Ind just like CMH is a unproven, thin route. Aren’t the airports / city same size, same routes?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:05 am

fedex1 wrote:
I will ask this same question here. . . CMH has cargo opportunities correct? If that is so, why would Delta ( presumably ) flew a 757 as mentioned in the “rest of Ohio” thread to CMH-CDG / AMS instead of a 767 like they did IND? Ind just like CMH is a unproven, thin route. Aren’t the airports / city same size, same routes?


1. IND is a larger O&D market
2. DL got cargo commitments from GE
3. IND has more int'l O&D
4. IND is a larger DL station (more routes, pax, destinations, skyclub, e.t.c)
5. IND has a higher amount business travel to Europe
6. CMH is a shorter distance to Europe, and is in more comfortable range of the 757
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:30 pm

So did Delta give up any gates at IND, since they have so many that truly aren’t used?
 
flyboy80
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:06 pm

Will Delta ever move to double daily SLC or add mainline to LGA or BOS? I could “see” perhaps one frequency daily upgraded to mainline on LGA, not sure about BOS- it seems adequate with connection sized planes.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:17 am

"Possibly" double daily to SLC but mainline to LGA is a stretch as that route averaged only 57.4% load factor in Q1 (AA and DL yes for that number, but definitely overserved). SLC has to digest its upgrade to year-round mainline first, but I could see a seasonal second daily DL flight on an E175 by 2020. (Depending on available aircraft/crews of course). SEA puts pressure on SLC loads due to its serving similiar connecting flows.

DTW-IND could see reductions with a 63.8% load factor, BOS did around 75% "okay", and RDU at 63% looks tough as well.

Here is some Q1 information for IND (and a few other airports): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... if/pubhtml


UA mainline was bad at around 72% load factor, hope that improves....


One caveat these numbers are for Q1 so Florida will look very good and east-west (LGA, SFO, SEA, etc.) markets not as much.

PDEW is based on onboard loads, not O/D. I hope to add some more cities to this at some point in the future as well.

In comparison with CVG for instance IND is pretty good on loads for Q1 at 79% overall. (not stage length adjusted, will try to fix that in the future)
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:36 am

flyboy80 wrote:
Will Delta ever move to double daily SLC or add mainline to LGA or BOS? I could “see” perhaps one frequency daily upgraded to mainline on LGA, not sure about BOS- it seems adequate with connection sized planes.


LGA will probably happen within the next 1-2 years thanks to the Series, WN leaving the market helps AA, UA, and DL a lot.

DL has been doing quite well as of late on the BOS-IND morning flight so the could go up to the B717 soon

2xSLC might have to wait to see how the IND-SEA flight affects connections through SLC.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:43 am

SumChristianus wrote:
"Possibly" double daily to SLC but mainline to LGA is a stretch as that route averaged only 57.4% load factor in Q1 (AA and DL yes for that number, but definitely overserved). SLC has to digest its upgrade to year-round mainline first, but I could see a seasonal second daily DL flight on an E175 by 2020. (Depending on available aircraft/crews of course). SEA puts pressure on SLC loads due to its serving similiar connecting flows.

DTW-IND could see reductions with a 63.8% load factor, BOS did around 75% "okay", and RDU at 63% looks tough as well.

Here is some Q1 information for IND (and a few other airports): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... if/pubhtml


UA mainline was bad at around 72% load factor, hope that improves....


One caveat these numbers are for Q1 so Florida will look very good and east-west (LGA, SFO, SEA, etc.) markets not as much.

PDEW is based on onboard loads, not O/D. I hope to add some more cities to this at some point in the future as well.

In comparison with CVG for instance IND is pretty good on loads for Q1 at 79% overall. (not stage length adjusted, will try to fix that in the future)


1. You are basing these loads off of January, February, and March which is not representative of the actual market.
2. For LGA you need to separate the AA numbers from the DL numbers since they both use Republic.
3. I still don't understand why DL reserves IND-RSW/MIA, but not IND-TPA/FLL which have similar if not better numbers during the same periods
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:43 pm

Yes, I guess I'm just too pessimistic.
Is there any way to separate AA and DL in the numbers for Republic, I think AA does worse.
Full year data would be the best, right? Maybe I'll try putting together rolling numbers.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:28 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
"Possibly" double daily to SLC but mainline to LGA is a stretch as that route averaged only 57.4% load factor in Q1 (AA and DL yes for that number, but definitely overserved). SLC has to digest its upgrade to year-round mainline first, but I could see a seasonal second daily DL flight on an E175 by 2020. (Depending on available aircraft/crews of course). SEA puts pressure on SLC loads due to its serving similiar connecting flows.

DTW-IND could see reductions with a 63.8% load factor, BOS did around 75% "okay", and RDU at 63% looks tough as well.

Here is some Q1 information for IND (and a few other airports): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... if/pubhtml


UA mainline was bad at around 72% load factor, hope that improves....


One caveat these numbers are for Q1 so Florida will look very good and east-west (LGA, SFO, SEA, etc.) markets not as much.

PDEW is based on onboard loads, not O/D. I hope to add some more cities to this at some point in the future as well.

In comparison with CVG for instance IND is pretty good on loads for Q1 at 79% overall. (not stage length adjusted, will try to fix that in the future)


1. You are basing these loads off of January, February, and March which is not representative of the actual market.
2. For LGA you need to separate the AA numbers from the DL numbers since they both use Republic.
3. I still don't understand why DL reserves IND-RSW/MIA, but not IND-TPA/FLL which have similar if not better numbers during the same periods


I, too, am surprised, given Republic's headquarters being in IND, Delta hasn't tossed some 170s to TPA, FLL, etc. to cherry pick seats, at least during the winter, high peak season.

Imagine if Delta started employing the old Northwest strategy from 2003/2004, we'd have 170s flying to wherever the hell they could reach. Which would be fun for about 2 years until it all became a big massive ghost town after a huge retreat.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:01 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Yes, I guess I'm just too pessimistic.
Is there any way to separate AA and DL in the numbers for Republic, I think AA does worse.
Full year data would be the best, right? Maybe I'll try putting together rolling numbers.


Not with the data publicly available, although AA tends to use the E175 and DL the E170/175 and CR9. The DL endeavor flights are the only real distinction.

stlgph wrote:
I, too, am surprised, given Republic's headquarters being in IND, Delta hasn't tossed some 170s to TPA, FLL, etc. to cherry pick seats, at least during the winter, high peak season.

Imagine if Delta started employing the old Northwest strategy from 2003/2004, we'd have 170s flying to wherever the hell they could reach. Which would be fun for about 2 years until it all became a big massive ghost town after a huge retreat.


I got interested about this so I looked at the Q1 data for this year(bold indicates served markets by DL)
DL IND-MCO-111 PDEW-$181
DL IND-RSW-32 PDEW-$216
DL IND-TPA-32 PDEW-$210
DL IND-FLL 28 PDEW-$232
DL IND-MIA-22 PDEW-$217
DL IND-SRQ-20 PDEW-$229
DL IND-JAX-19 PDEW-$253
DL IND-PBI-19 PDEW-$274

The IND-RSW/MIA flights will all be endeavor next spring, and Republic is only scheduled to run 2 DL flights next Saturday spring so that should leave some slack for IND-TPA or FLL.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:04 pm

I wonder how many people flying in from IND get off a plane in MIA and head right for a cruise ship, or if some do a beach vacation in the immediate area. Be interesting to see that statistic broken out somehow.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:45 pm

stlgph wrote:
I wonder how many people flying in from IND get off a plane in MIA and head right for a cruise ship, or if some do a beach vacation in the immediate area. Be interesting to see that statistic broken out somehow.


Depending on the cruise line, a lot of people fly to FLL to get on cruise ships too. I went on a cruise in July 2010 and flew airTran IND-BWI-FLL.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:23 pm

I went through the Q1 numbers and I noticed some big increases in O&D PDEW from AA and DL in some markets
(2017pax-2018pax percent increase in O&D)
AA
IND-PHX-(+33.6%)
IND-MIA-(+9.2%)
IND-DFW-(+20.8%)
IND-DCA-(+27.4%)
IND-ORD-(+16.9%)
IND-CLT-(+9.4%)
IND-LGA/JFK-(+23.0%)
IND-BOS-(+46.2%)
IND-SAN-(+35.5%)

F9
(+23.2%)
G4
(+47.0%)

DL
IND-MCO-(+32.1%)
IND-MSP-(+22.0%)
IND-SLC-(+200%)

Routes
IND-SFO (+53.9%)
IND-SEA (+51.1%)
IND-AUS (+35.1%)
IND-SAN (+15.7%)
IND-SFB/MCO (+21.6%)
IND-MSY (+14.9%)
IND-FLL (+14.6%)
IND-TPA (+16.4%)
IND-PGD (+34.7%)
IND-PIE (+55.2%)
IND-BWI (+28.5%)
IND-EWR (+50%)
IND-JFK (+27.3%)
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flyPIT
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IND-SLC-(+200%)

Routes
IND-SFO (+53.9%)
IND-SEA (+51.1%)
IND-AUS (+35.1%)


Its fascinating how new or increased nonstop service can increase market demand between two cities.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:53 am

I would love to know with more west coast nonstops if people drive far away for the nonstop

I drove from Lexington for the nonstop to SAN last year and would do it again if the times were right

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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:05 am

So good solid numbers for IND? What’s the passenger growth this year over last year at this time?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:31 pm

fedex1 wrote:
So good solid numbers for IND? What’s the passenger growth this year over last year at this time?


Up 8.49%

YTD growth
AS: NA +53,219
AC: (+6.46%)
G4: (+47.75%)
AA: (+8.98%)
DL: (+6.66%)
F9: (+29.64%)
J1: (-5.72%)
WN: (+1.66%
UA: (-1.86%)
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:09 pm

I am surprised to see AA growth a lot higher than DL, even after DL is running the 767 daily. Isn’t that quite a lot of seats added to a market? Like IND?
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:37 pm

fedex1 wrote:
I am surprised to see AA growth a lot higher than DL, even after DL is running the 767 daily. Isn’t that quite a lot of seats added to a market? Like IND?


Those numbers haven’t been released yet. We only have Jan/Feb/Mar/Apr numbers so far.


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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:37 pm

zackary747 wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
I am surprised to see AA growth a lot higher than DL, even after DL is running the 767 daily. Isn’t that quite a lot of seats added to a market? Like IND?


Those numbers haven’t been released yet. We only have Jan/Feb/Mar/Apr numbers so far.


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AA growth may outpace DL this year, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the business dropped WN in favor of AA considering WN has dropped EWR, DCA, and seasonally LAX. I know Lilly's primary Air suppliers were WN, UA, and DL, but that will likely switch to AA, UA, and DL.

Hence the reason they are gaining so much O&D this year
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:10 pm

Gotcha. Makes sense!!!! I still think Delta could add routes instead of waiting. . .
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:37 am

Okay, here is "more accurate" data which includes all of 2017 for IND (domestic + international):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
LGA has a 66% year round load factor (AA/DL/WN) or 71% when WN is excluded, still can't split AA/DL.

RDU is at 71% year-round on DL.

AC did 66% on YYZ

The block utilization hours per day is inaccurate as AC doesn't seem to report their flight length (do they use teleportation?)

CUN is 87% year round on DL
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:12 pm

Good news from Delta today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 779355002/

As it does so, Delta is flying to those partner hubs from an increasing number of cities in the U.S. — including from many in the U.S. that are not hubs for Delta.

"Among those: Delta added flights from Orlando to Amsterdam in March and from Indianapolis to Paris in May. Amsterdam is the primary hub for Dutch partner KLM while Paris Charles de Gaulle is the top hub for partner Air France"

"The city pairs were chosen for their frequent-flier bases and their loyalty to Delta, Hauenstein said. But rather than focusing on point-to-point travel from cities other than its hubs in Atlanta and New York, he said the service offers more opportunities for connections."

“Really exciting for us, the results,” he added, with each of the markets “doing quite well” in their first year.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Good news from Delta today
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 779355002/

As it does so, Delta is flying to those partner hubs from an increasing number of cities in the U.S. — including from many in the U.S. that are not hubs for Delta.

"Among those: Delta added flights from Orlando to Amsterdam in March and from Indianapolis to Paris in May. Amsterdam is the primary hub for Dutch partner KLM while Paris Charles de Gaulle is the top hub for partner Air France"

"The city pairs were chosen for their frequent-flier bases and their loyalty to Delta, Hauenstein said. But rather than focusing on point-to-point travel from cities other than its hubs in Atlanta and New York, he said the service offers more opportunities for connections."

“Really exciting for us, the results,” he added, with each of the markets “doing quite well” in their first year.


This is great to hear.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:15 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
I hope Delta starts an Asian flight next or maybe MEX

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Aeromexico could take that as they are partnered.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:17 pm

I hope Delta starts an Asian flight next or maybe MEX

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fsafsx
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:07 pm

Delta has so much potential to grow in Indy. I personally want to see them turn Indy into a hub in the future. Indy needs Mexico City and Gdl flights as well as a flight to connect to South America. Some day Indy will have a San Paulo flight. Maybe on GOL connecting in Punta Cana.
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:28 pm

I would love to know the numbers on IND-CDG, see daily year round! Or damn close to daily year round service .
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:52 pm

fsafsx wrote:
Delta has so much potential to grow in Indy. I personally want to see them turn Indy into a hub in the future. Indy needs Mexico City and Gdl flights as well as a flight to connect to South America. Some day Indy will have a San Paulo flight. Maybe on GOL connecting in Punta Cana.


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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:11 pm

From the Earnings Call transcript:

Operator

Next, we will go to Helane Becker with Cowen and Company.

Helane Becker

Thanks very much operator. Hi guys. Thank you very much for taking the question. So I think you mentioned that, for an example, you were adding Indianapolis to Europe service. Is that a connection? Is it really about connecting Indianapolis traffic with other points in Europe as opposed to point-to-point and instead of over hubs in New York and Detroit? And B, should we think about opportunity for you in that small or medium size city to Amsterdam and Paris and to some extent London going forward?

Glen Hauenstein

Helane, a great question and I think that really is the point is that when we fly from Indianapolis to Paris, we are not just flying from Indy to Paris, we are flying from Indianapolis to Paris connecting to all of Europe and then really connecting Asia and Africa through Paris. So we would never contemplate flying from Indianapolis to Paris if it were two endpoints on our network, but really given the strength of the frequent flyer base and the loyalty we have in Indianapolis and the amount of traffic that's continuing on to those destinations beyond Paris, that's where we have really added over the past years, using our partner hubs. Really exciting for the results too. Indianapolis to Paris is doing quite well in its first year of operation.

We also added Orlando to Amsterdam. That's also doing quite well. And Los Angeles to both Paris and Amsterdam. Interesting factoid is, of the three major U.S. carriers in Los Angeles, we were the only one that did not have nonstop European service on our own metal. So we added that this year and that's doing really well as well.

So I would say there is a good chance that we could see an increase in frequency/equipment next year.
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I have some Int'l O&D data from May 2017-May 2018 to share

1. LHR-IND-21.7%-9,187 pax

1. IND-LHR-18.5%-17,309

Sorry to bring this back up again but I'm still a bit confused. For example, IND-LHR PDEW is around 50 by this right? (9,187+17,309)/365 and most of the demand (2/3) is from the IND side?

fsafsx wrote:
Delta has so much potential to grow in Indy. I personally want to see them turn Indy into a hub in the future. Indy needs Mexico City and Gdl flights as well as a flight to connect to South America. Some day Indy will have a San Paulo flight. Maybe on GOL connecting in Punta Cana.


I again doubt that they'll ever make a hub with CVG/ATL/DTW so close, but I can still see AUS, TPA, LAS, and BDL as possibilities for DL at IND.
Sao Paulo doesn't even see service to PHL, SFO, (AUS ;) ), PHX, etc. yet, and only just received service to BOS and LAS, so I think its a bit far out. Perhaps PTY (eventually) with a A220-100 size aircraft, but I think IND-Americas service will remain at just Canada and Mexico for awhile.
Midwestindy wrote:
“Really exciting for us, the results,” he added, with each of the markets “doing quite well” in their first year.

Like that! Hopefully they have overcome the initially low loads (right?).
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:19 pm

Is IND-CDG, doing that well that Delta would add a bigger plane? Or frequency? If so, what? Year round daily?
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:40 pm

Just pulled Q1 DB1B data and IND-Orlando (SFB/MCO) was huge this winter/spring 922 PDEW!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
10,125 total domestic PDEW, 362 PDEW of domestic connections (EWR-LAS on WN the largest connecting market through IND), and (is this right?) 1,439 PDEW of international O/D and domestic to international connections in IND.
CVG numbers are in the table as well, still much smaller than IND's, but gaining rapidly.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:45 pm

About 10, 15 years ago or so I remember IND to MCO and LAS being in the 1,000 range then it just kind of took a tumble as people started discovering other destinations and there were less choices for travel.
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jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:03 pm

Will DL ever bring back IND-DFW nonstop service? DL used to serve DFW nonstop from IND back when DL had a hub at DFW, and DL could bring back IND-DFW nonstop service if it is planning on adding nonstop service to non-DL hub destinations from IND.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:49 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
I again doubt that they'll ever make a hub with CVG/ATL/DTW so close, but I can still see AUS, TPA, LAS, and BDL as possibilities for DL at IND.
Sao Paulo doesn't even see service to PHL, SFO, (AUS ;) ), PHX, etc. yet, and only just received service to BOS and LAS, so I think its a bit far out. Perhaps PTY (eventually) with a A220-100 size aircraft, but I think IND-Americas service will remain at just Canada and Mexico for awhile.


Does DL still call CVG a hub? I mean it really isn't even if DL calls it one. But they aren't going to make IND one with DTW being so close. Likely the same reason CVG got dismantled. I could see them bringing back a number of the routes NW ran successfully during their focus city days. I wouldn't be shocked either if DL was the airline that ended up serving IND-Asia. But yeah.... never a DL hub. Yes to focus city. I mean you could practically call it one already.
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FWAERJ
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:30 pm

stlgph wrote:
About 10, 15 years ago or so I remember IND to MCO and LAS being in the 1,000 range then it just kind of took a tumble as people started discovering other destinations and there were less choices for travel.


In the case of IND-MCO, much of the pax came from the FWA and CVG areas. IND even ran ads in CVG at one point because so many drove to IND from
Cincinnati to get away from then-astronomical CVG pricing.

After both FWA and IND got G4 to SFB and CVG became a ULCC haven instead of a DL fortress, IND-MCO saw fewer pax.
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