Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:49 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Most of the articles I have seen say Texas or DC. But you can find an article that lists almost every city in the top 3.


No I didn't read it online, I was told by someone high up in the city. If you want more details send me a DM


My comment wasn't directed at you (since you said you heard yours from someone, not an article).
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:45 am

fedex1 wrote:
Yes that links college ave to downtown, for now.... Indianapolis should have been ahead of this year’s ago. Whitestown, Carmel, Fishers, Noblesville, Zionsville, Westfield are ALL growing. . .


Here's a link on the whole transit plan for your reference.

https://www.indygo.net/transitplan/

The Red Line covers from Broad Ripple (north) all the way to UIndy (south). Phase 2 of this line (referendum passing required by Hamilton and Johnson counties) will go up to Carmel and Westfield, and down to Greenwood (and maybe Whiteland but I am not 100 percent sure on that.) A route this long in my opinion would be better with LRT (light-rail) but BRT will get the job done, just not as good obviously. BRT is much cheaper than LRT as well.

The Purple Line will cover Downtown all the way to the Lawrence suburb. (This is the only suburb that will be connected in Phase 1 of the project as Lawrence was included in Marion county's referendum.) (According to the Purple Line map it doesn't look like this line has a phase 2, but the other two lines do.)

The Blue Line will cover the IND airport all the way through downtown and as far East as Washington St. (I think these plans need to be changed to LRT before construction as the airport is involved, but BRT will get the job done nonetheless for a fraction of the cost, It just won't be as good.) (Phase 2 includes entry into Plainfield referendum pending by Hendricks county.)

All three lines should be done by 2022 (Red will be done 2019, purple 2020/2021, blue 2022.) assuming there are no delays. That also gives enough time for the suburb counties to set up a referendum for the 2020 general election or 2022 midterms, and enough time for LRT conversion before construction if possible.

The are other lines that are BRT/LRT that are proposed (Orange line is an example) that either have to be replanned due to the location becoming a trail instead and/or passed with a separate referendum by the county or counties that it will run through. It doesn't appear to have that information on the link above as those proposed lines are way out in the future.

I thought this link would be valuable to you as we were on the topic of Amazon, transit, and the effects to the city/airport.
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Rocketman1972
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:59 am

Thanks, MidwestIndy.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Heard from someone with some insider knowledge that IND is rumored be in the Top 3 for Amazon HQ2.....


"Insider and rumored = no idea"

I personally think IAD area will be selected. Dark horse is CMH or RDU
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:31 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Heard from someone with some insider knowledge that IND is rumored be in the Top 3 for Amazon HQ2.....


"Insider and rumored = no idea"

I personally think IAD area will be selected. Dark horse is CMH or RDU


Everything is a rumor until it is announced or confirmed.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:35 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Heard from someone with some insider knowledge that IND is rumored be in the Top 3 for Amazon HQ2.....


"Insider and rumored = no idea"


Just because his source told him something that isn't confirmed yet doesn't mean that person has no idea. That's a ridiculous assumption to have.......
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Here is an overview of some of the mainline/frequency/aircraft changes DL has made for early next year
January
IND-MSP going from 1xMD90 to 3xB717
IND-SLC E175 to mainline
IND-JFK 1x to 2x daily
+CDG
+SEA
February
IND-SLC E175 to mainline
IND-MSP 1xB717 to 3xB717
IND-JFK 1x to 2x daily
+CDG
+SEA
March
10x daily IND-ATL next march
IND-MSP will go from 1xMD90, to 1xMD90+1xA319
IND-JFK 1x to 2x daily
IND-BOS/NYC/MSP/DTW/RDU/RSW/MIA all RJ service on 76 seaters except for 4 frequencies on 69 seaters
+CDG
+SEA
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:25 pm

Will Delta have any 50 seaters left at IND?

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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:28 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Will Delta have any 50 seaters left at IND?

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All 50 seaters are gone, the only 50 seater route is IND-RDU, and that is temporary and gone after new years.

Their DL connection operation in IND will basically be all 76 seat aircraft soon
Last edited by Midwestindy on Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:30 pm

Good hope UA and AA follow.

I assume AC will he awhile

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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:34 pm

Good hope UA and AA follow.

I assume AC will he awhile

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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:51 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Good hope UA and AA follow.

I assume AC will he awhile

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AA is iffy, PHL and CLT have already shifted: IND-PHL is now all E175 and IND-CLT is all mainline/E175/CR9 and 1 CR7

I think IND will be stuck with the 1 50 seater on IND-DCA just due to the slot/gate situation there, during certain times they only have gates for 50 seaters. Luckily all the important flight times are on the E175
The midday E145 IND-MIA run is usually very full with LFs above 80% and even into the 90% range, so that could possibly be upguaged
It looks like only 1 E145 remains on IND-ORD, so that could be upguaged to a CR7 soon I imagine
The E140 service to NYC will probably remain as long as AA runs IND-JFK, if they drop IND-JFK they will probably upguage the LGA flights to the E175

UA will probably have the 50 seater for a while in IND, they have so many it is hard to run away from them.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:39 pm

I wonder if IND will get any LUV from Southwest Thursday

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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:42 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
I wonder if IND will get any LUV from Southwest Thursday

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If WN wants anything new during Spring Break, now is the time. Still waiting for IND-BNA.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:04 pm

zackary747 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I wonder if IND will get any LUV from Southwest Thursday

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If WN wants anything new during Spring Break, now is the time. Still waiting for IND-BNA.


Possibly IND-BNA and reinstating IND-SAN earlier or daily on IND-AUS, but I think they are just about tapped out from IND. I just don't think they are realistically going to add anything big from IND anytime soon.

Cutting NYC service isn't going to do them well in the long-run, and if they end up cutting IND-BOS that could be even more trouble at IND.

I just don't see where they are realistically going to add......that would be profitable.... (please do not respond jplatts)
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I wonder if IND will get any LUV from Southwest Thursday

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If WN wants anything new during Spring Break, now is the time. Still waiting for IND-BNA.


Possibly IND-BNA and reinstating IND-SAN earlier or daily on IND-AUS, but I think they are just about tapped out from IND. I just don't think they are realistically going to add anything big from IND anytime soon.

Cutting NYC service isn't going to do them well in the long-run, and if they end up cutting IND-BOS that could be even more trouble at IND.

I just don't see where they are realistically going to add......that would be profitable.... (please do not respond jplatts)


I think BOS is safe as if I am not mistaken that airport isn't slot restricted. With EWR being slot restricted and WN having little to no slots to work with, they simply had to make the tough decision. They couldn't run both IND and BNA so they had to pick one, and their focus city was the final answer. I think WN will hold onto BOS unless B6 enters the market. 1x daily IND-BOS on WN should work well for the most part unless B6 has any ideas in the near or distant future. And yeah, I don't know what else they could add as well. BNA is the only thing I can think of.

I am hoping G4 does IND-EWR as I think doing that route 2-3x weekly with their business model would be very successful for them.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:18 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

If WN wants anything new during Spring Break, now is the time. Still waiting for IND-BNA.


Possibly IND-BNA and reinstating IND-SAN earlier or daily on IND-AUS, but I think they are just about tapped out from IND. I just don't think they are realistically going to add anything big from IND anytime soon.

Cutting NYC service isn't going to do them well in the long-run, and if they end up cutting IND-BOS that could be even more trouble at IND.

I just don't see where they are realistically going to add......that would be profitable.... (please do not respond jplatts)


I think BOS is safe as if I am not mistaken that airport isn't slot restricted. With EWR being slot restricted and WN having little to no slots to work with, they simply had to make the tough decision. They couldn't run both IND and BNA so they had to pick one, and their focus city was the final answer. I think WN will hold onto BOS unless B6 enters the market. 1x daily IND-BOS on WN should work well for the most part unless B6 has any ideas in the near or distant future. And yeah, I don't know what else they could add as well. BNA is the only thing I can think of.

I am hoping G4 does IND-EWR as I think doing that route 2-3x weekly with their business model would be very successful for them.


Newark is not slot restricted, and currently WN has 3 gates with around 20 daily flights. So, no they didn't have to chose between IND and BNA they could have easily ran both as WN sometimes runs 10+ flights per gate.

I don't think 1x IND-BOS will work outside of the summer, DL runs the same (or better) times usually and has multiple daily frequencies .

Cutting back LAX and BOS, and ending EWR and DCA in the long run is going to hurt WN's chances in starting any other business markets from IND. They probably won't be getting very many corporate contracts moving forward.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:24 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Possibly IND-BNA and reinstating IND-SAN earlier or daily on IND-AUS, but I think they are just about tapped out from IND. I just don't think they are realistically going to add anything big from IND anytime soon.

Cutting NYC service isn't going to do them well in the long-run, and if they end up cutting IND-BOS that could be even more trouble at IND.

I just don't see where they are realistically going to add......that would be profitable.... (please do not respond jplatts)


I think BOS is safe as if I am not mistaken that airport isn't slot restricted. With EWR being slot restricted and WN having little to no slots to work with, they simply had to make the tough decision. They couldn't run both IND and BNA so they had to pick one, and their focus city was the final answer. I think WN will hold onto BOS unless B6 enters the market. 1x daily IND-BOS on WN should work well for the most part unless B6 has any ideas in the near or distant future. And yeah, I don't know what else they could add as well. BNA is the only thing I can think of.

I am hoping G4 does IND-EWR as I think doing that route 2-3x weekly with their business model would be very successful for them.


Newark is not slot restricted, and currently WN has 3 gates with around 20 daily flights. So, no they didn't have to chose between IND and BNA they could have easily ran both as WN sometimes runs 10+ flights per gate.

I don't think 1x IND-BOS will work outside of the summer, DL runs the same (or better) times usually and has multiple daily frequencies .

Cutting back LAX and BOS, and ending EWR and DCA in the long run is going to hurt WN's chances in starting any other business markets from IND. They probably won't be getting very many corporate contracts moving forward.


Interesting. I thought EWR was slot restricted. I just Googled it and EWR used to be, but not anymore. Interesting. Yeah, I agree that IND-BOS for WN will not work well in the winter (as I stated above by saying most part. Most part= summer/tourism season only), but I am confident it will work in the summer (Unless B6 comes in). Perhaps some seasonal cuts on BOS? (Unless B6 comes in of course). And yeah I agree when it comes to the corporate contracts. I think WN is going to become much more leisure heavy at IND going forward.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 pm

I wonder how Frontier 2X weekly to SAN is doing

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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:38 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
I wonder how Frontier 2X weekly to SAN is doing

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Flight this friday is showing 3 seats left and tickets above $100, on a 230 seat aircraft that's pretty good for an ULCC.

AA is still surprisingly running $37 oneway IND-PHL
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:40 pm

I decided to look some things up. Here's what WN currently does out of BOS, LGA, and EWR. (Medium markets will be bolded)

BOS: ATL, AUS, BWI, MDW, CMH, DAL, DEN, HOU, IND, MCI, MKE, BNA, STL. Seasonal: MSY, MCO, TPA.

LGA: ATL, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, BNA, MSY (future route), MCO (future), STL, TPA, PBI (future) Seasonal: FLL, MSY, PHX, SAT.

EWR: ATL, MDW, DEN, FLL, IND (ending), BNA (resuming), OAK, MCO, PHX, SAN, STL.

Well, their EWR schedule is bleak compared to the rest that is for sure.

Questions to MidwestIndy.

1. Is LGA slot restricted? I Googled it and the FAA site says they use 'runway slots' at LGA and DCA.
2. Look at the bolded markets in the BOS section (excluding AUS as they're a bigger tourism destination than the other cities bolded). Was IND-BOS the only route cut to 1x daily, or were there others?
3. If LGA is slot restricted and EWR is not, why is their LGA operation so much bigger? (Secondary question to #1 if it is indeed slot restricted).
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:45 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I wonder if IND will get any LUV from Southwest Thursday

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If WN wants anything new during Spring Break, now is the time. Still waiting for IND-BNA.


Possibly IND-BNA and reinstating IND-SAN earlier or daily on IND-AUS, but I think they are just about tapped out from IND. I just don't think they are realistically going to add anything big from IND anytime soon.

Cutting NYC service isn't going to do them well in the long-run, and if they end up cutting IND-BOS that could be even more trouble at IND.

I just don't see where they are realistically going to add......that would be profitable.... (please do not respond jplatts)


Southwest could add IND-MKE. The service would connect the two cities and give travelers more options. From MKE they would have more options to ATL, BWI, BOS, CLE, DAL, DEN, HOU, LAS, LAX, BNA, LGA, MCO, PHX, STL, TPA, DCA, and seasonal service to FLL, RSW, SFO, and SEA.

Right now Southwest does not fly nonstop from IND to LGA or DCA, and no one flies IND-CLE after UA and DL dropped the route, so this would provide other opportunities for Southwest to provide service to passengers in these markets.

After take off from IND, the MKE-bound WN flight could make a low pass over the Steak 'n Shake in Brownsburg to remind passengers WN offers IND passengers service to ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, DAL, DEN, EWR, FLL, HOU, LAS, LAX, MDW, MSY, OAK, PHX, RSW, TPA, and seasonal service to CUN and SAN. They might tweet to @SouthwestAir during their meal requesting Southwest add nonstops to BDL, ORF, PDX, or SAT. After booking a flight to BOS, they may tweet requesting service to not just BDL, but also MHT or PVD since they may fly over those airports on their approach to BOS, and after landing in BOS, may hear a boarding call for CMH, so they may request nonstop service there, too. Southwest could add CMH and BNA during a schedule extension in 2019, along with MEM and RNO. A flight to RNO may provide extra opportunities for passengers to connect to PDX and SJC. Southwest could eventually add nonstop service to these cities if there is enough demand since they currently do not offer nonstops from IND. Right now you can conect to these cities on Southwest via MDW, DEN, HOU, LAS, LAX, and PHX. They could always consider PNS. Right now Southwest does not offer nonstop service from IND to PNS. PNS is very popular for travelers from Indianapolis but most people tend to drive. Right now you can fly there from Southwest on IND via DAL, MDW, and HOU after eating your meal at Steak 'n Shake.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:49 pm

zackary747 wrote:
I decided to look some things up. Here's what WN currently does out of BOS, LGA, and EWR. (Medium markets will be bolded)

BOS: ATL, AUS, BWI, MDW, CMH, DAL, DEN, HOU, IND, MCI, MKE, BNA, STL. Seasonal: MSY, MCO, TPA.

LGA: ATL, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, BNA, MSY (future route), MCO (future), STL, TPA, PBI (future) Seasonal: FLL, MSY, PHX, SAT.

EWR: ATL, MDW, DEN, FLL, IND (ending), BNA (resuming), OAK, MCO, PHX, SAN, STL.

Well, their EWR schedule is bleak compared to the rest that is for sure.

Questions to MidwestIndy.

1. Is LGA slot restricted? I Googled it and the FAA site says they use 'runway slots' at LGA and DCA.
2. Look at the bolded markets in the BOS section (excluding AUS as they're a bigger tourism destination than the other cities bolded). Was IND-BOS the only route cut to 1x daily, or were there others?
3. If LGA is slot restricted and EWR is not, why is their LGA operation so much bigger? (Secondary question to #1 if it is indeed slot restricted).


1 is yes.
3 is probably because demand to LGA is a lot higher and they have been able to get enough slots to get to where they are.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:50 pm

zackary747 wrote:
I decided to look some things up. Here's what WN currently does out of BOS, LGA, and EWR. (Medium markets will be bolded)

BOS: ATL, AUS, BWI, MDW, CMH, DAL, DEN, HOU, IND, MCI, MKE, BNA, STL. Seasonal: MSY, MCO, TPA.

LGA: ATL, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, BNA, MSY (future route), MCO (future), STL, TPA, PBI (future) Seasonal: FLL, MSY, PHX, SAT.

EWR: ATL, MDW, DEN, FLL, IND (ending), BNA (resuming), OAK, MCO, PHX, SAN, STL.

Well, their EWR schedule is bleak compared to the rest that is for sure.

Questions to MidwestIndy.

1. Is LGA slot restricted? I Googled it and the FAA site says they use 'runway slots' at LGA and DCA.
2. Look at the bolded markets in the BOS section (excluding AUS as they're a bigger tourism destination than the other cities bolded). Was IND-BOS the only route cut to 1x daily, or were there others?
3. If LGA is slot restricted and EWR is not, why is their LGA operation so much bigger? (Secondary question to #1 if it is indeed slot restricted).



The AirTran buyout helped Southwest A TON with getting to the size and scale they're at now at LGA.
Everyone says Southwest bought AirTran to get into Atlanta. I say a major portion of it was to get a bigger footprint at LGA.

We had Barger in for an interview when he was CEO at JetBlue. He basically said they had a fund of $80 million set aside in case (a) slot(s) came open for sale at LGA, and were prepared to spend more, if needed.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:57 pm

stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

If WN wants anything new during Spring Break, now is the time. Still waiting for IND-BNA.


Possibly IND-BNA and reinstating IND-SAN earlier or daily on IND-AUS, but I think they are just about tapped out from IND. I just don't think they are realistically going to add anything big from IND anytime soon.

Cutting NYC service isn't going to do them well in the long-run, and if they end up cutting IND-BOS that could be even more trouble at IND.

I just don't see where they are realistically going to add......that would be profitable.... (please do not respond jplatts)


Southwest could add IND-MKE. The service would connect the two cities and give travelers more options. From MKE they would have more options to ATL, BWI, BOS, CLE, DAL, DEN, HOU, LAS, LAX, BNA, LGA, MCO, PHX, STL, TPA, DCA, and seasonal service to FLL, RSW, SFO, and SEA.

Right now Southwest does not fly nonstop from IND to LGA or DCA, and no one flies IND-CLE after UA and DL dropped the route, so this would provide other opportunities for Southwest to provide service to passengers in these markets.

After take off from IND, the MKE-bound WN flight could make a low pass over the Steak 'n Shake in Brownsburg to remind passengers WN offers IND passengers service to ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, DAL, DEN, EWR, FLL, HOU, LAS, LAX, MDW, MSY, OAK, PHX, RSW, TPA, and seasonal service to CUN and SAN. They might tweet to @SouthwestAir during their meal requesting Southwest add nonstops to BDL, ORF, PDX, or SAT. After booking a flight to BOS, they may tweet requesting service to not just BDL, but also MHT or PVD since they may fly over those airports on their approach to BOS, and after landing in BOS, may hear a boarding call for CMH, so they may request nonstop service there, too. Southwest could add CMH and BNA during a schedule extension in 2019, along with MEM and RNO. A flight to RNO may provide extra opportunities for passengers to connect to PDX and SJC. Southwest could eventually add nonstop service to these cities if there is enough demand since they currently do not offer nonstops from IND. Right now you can conect to these cities on Southwest via MDW, DEN, HOU, LAS, LAX, and PHX. They could always consider PNS. Right now Southwest does not offer nonstop service from IND to PNS. PNS is very popular for travelers from Indianapolis but most people tend to drive. Right now you can fly there from Southwest on IND via DAL, MDW, and HOU after eating your meal at Steak 'n Shake.


:bouncy:
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:59 pm

that was for you. :P
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:08 am

zackary747 wrote:
I decided to look some things up. Here's what WN currently does out of BOS, LGA, and EWR. (Medium markets will be bolded)

BOS: ATL, AUS, BWI, MDW, CMH, DAL, DEN, HOU, IND, MCI, MKE, BNA, STL. Seasonal: MSY, MCO, TPA.

LGA: ATL, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, BNA, MSY (future route), MCO (future), STL, TPA, PBI (future) Seasonal: FLL, MSY, PHX, SAT.

EWR: ATL, MDW, DEN, FLL, IND (ending), BNA (resuming), OAK, MCO, PHX, SAN, STL.

Well, their EWR schedule is bleak compared to the rest that is for sure.

Questions to MidwestIndy.

1. Is LGA slot restricted? I Googled it and the FAA site says they use 'runway slots' at LGA and DCA.
2. Look at the bolded markets in the BOS section (excluding AUS as they're a bigger tourism destination than the other cities bolded). Was IND-BOS the only route cut to 1x daily, or were there others?
3. If LGA is slot restricted and EWR is not, why is their LGA operation so much bigger? (Secondary question to #1 if it is indeed slot restricted).


1.Yes LGA is slot restricted
2. CMH and MKE were trimmed to 1x daily for last spring, CMH is usually 2x daily and I think MKE has a similar schedule to IND
3. They have been able to get a lot of slots in LGA, and regardless of what the NYC posters will tell you, LGA is the most convenient NYC airport for a majority of passengers so inevitably LGA is their largest operation.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:15 am

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
I decided to look some things up. Here's what WN currently does out of BOS, LGA, and EWR. (Medium markets will be bolded)

BOS: ATL, AUS, BWI, MDW, CMH, DAL, DEN, HOU, IND, MCI, MKE, BNA, STL. Seasonal: MSY, MCO, TPA.

LGA: ATL, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, BNA, MSY (future route), MCO (future), STL, TPA, PBI (future) Seasonal: FLL, MSY, PHX, SAT.

EWR: ATL, MDW, DEN, FLL, IND (ending), BNA (resuming), OAK, MCO, PHX, SAN, STL.

Well, their EWR schedule is bleak compared to the rest that is for sure.

Questions to MidwestIndy.

1. Is LGA slot restricted? I Googled it and the FAA site says they use 'runway slots' at LGA and DCA.
2. Look at the bolded markets in the BOS section (excluding AUS as they're a bigger tourism destination than the other cities bolded). Was IND-BOS the only route cut to 1x daily, or were there others?
3. If LGA is slot restricted and EWR is not, why is their LGA operation so much bigger? (Secondary question to #1 if it is indeed slot restricted).


1.Yes LGA is slot restricted
2. CMH and MKE were trimmed to 1x daily for last spring, CMH is usually 2x daily and I think MKE has a similar schedule to IND
3. They have been able to get a lot of slots in LGA, and regardless of what the NYC posters will tell you, LGA is the most convenient NYC airport for a majority of passengers so inevitably LGA is their largest operation.


Thanks for the information. I flew into EWR once and I really don't want to fly in there again. Bad experience, so don't worry the NYC people won't convince me.

Since IND, MKE, and CMH got the same treatment, if IND-BOS gets cut, or seasonally cut I can see the other two markets going the same direction as well. The question is, will WN keep the 1x daily all year around in effort to keep B6 out?? (It does work well in the summer at least) I'd imagine B6 will enter with the A220 one of these days and ruin those efforts by WN, but time will tell.
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tphuang
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:52 am

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
I decided to look some things up. Here's what WN currently does out of BOS, LGA, and EWR. (Medium markets will be bolded)

BOS: ATL, AUS, BWI, MDW, CMH, DAL, DEN, HOU, IND, MCI, MKE, BNA, STL. Seasonal: MSY, MCO, TPA.

LGA: ATL, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, BNA, MSY (future route), MCO (future), STL, TPA, PBI (future) Seasonal: FLL, MSY, PHX, SAT.

EWR: ATL, MDW, DEN, FLL, IND (ending), BNA (resuming), OAK, MCO, PHX, SAN, STL.

Well, their EWR schedule is bleak compared to the rest that is for sure.

Questions to MidwestIndy.

1. Is LGA slot restricted? I Googled it and the FAA site says they use 'runway slots' at LGA and DCA.
2. Look at the bolded markets in the BOS section (excluding AUS as they're a bigger tourism destination than the other cities bolded). Was IND-BOS the only route cut to 1x daily, or were there others?
3. If LGA is slot restricted and EWR is not, why is their LGA operation so much bigger? (Secondary question to #1 if it is indeed slot restricted).


1.Yes LGA is slot restricted
2. CMH and MKE were trimmed to 1x daily for last spring, CMH is usually 2x daily and I think MKE has a similar schedule to IND
3. They have been able to get a lot of slots in LGA, and regardless of what the NYC posters will tell you, LGA is the most convenient NYC airport for a majority of passengers so inevitably LGA is their largest operation.


Thanks for the information. I flew into EWR once and I really don't want to fly in there again. Bad experience, so don't worry the NYC people won't convince me.

Since IND, MKE, and CMH got the same treatment, if IND-BOS gets cut, or seasonally cut I can see the other two markets going the same direction as well. The question is, will WN keep the 1x daily all year around in effort to keep B6 out?? (It does work well in the summer at least) I'd imagine B6 will enter with the A220 one of these days and ruin those efforts by WN, but time will tell.

There is no way WN can keep B6 out. B6 hasn't entered IND due to the slow moving nature of its management.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:37 am

tphuang wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

1.Yes LGA is slot restricted
2. CMH and MKE were trimmed to 1x daily for last spring, CMH is usually 2x daily and I think MKE has a similar schedule to IND
3. They have been able to get a lot of slots in LGA, and regardless of what the NYC posters will tell you, LGA is the most convenient NYC airport for a majority of passengers so inevitably LGA is their largest operation.


Thanks for the information. I flew into EWR once and I really don't want to fly in there again. Bad experience, so don't worry the NYC people won't convince me.

Since IND, MKE, and CMH got the same treatment, if IND-BOS gets cut, or seasonally cut I can see the other two markets going the same direction as well. The question is, will WN keep the 1x daily all year around in effort to keep B6 out?? (It does work well in the summer at least) I'd imagine B6 will enter with the A220 one of these days and ruin those efforts by WN, but time will tell.

There is no way WN can keep B6 out. B6 hasn't entered IND due to the slow moving nature of its management.


I agree. WN can try, but the bloodbath moment I think is just a matter of time. WN and B6 will not be able to co-exist on the market (not even in the summer) so when B6 does enter I can see WN retreating.
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:09 pm

What is making SouthWest retreat like this? They have been a big deal in IND for years!!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:03 pm

fedex1 wrote:
What is making SouthWest retreat like this? They have been a big deal in IND for years!!


They can't attract the business community. For example if you look at gov contracts from IND, WN has lost a plethora of gov contracts on certain routes: IND-PDX, IND-LGA, IND-MCI, IND-HOU, e.t.c.

They have probably lost a significant amount of business contracts as well
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fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:28 am

Why can’t SouthWest attract the business community?? They did for years correct???
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:57 am

fedex1 wrote:
Why can’t SouthWest attract the business community?? They did for years correct???


For a couple, that goes away though if you don't serve the major markets adequately
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:53 pm

It appears Onejet has come to an end, none of their flights are bookable.

So far only BUF has reported it, however I emailed to IBJ to see if they could get more info
https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/new ... unded.html
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:55 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
It appears Onejet has come to an end, none of their flights are bookable.

So far only BUF has reported it, however I emailed to IBJ to see if they could get more info
https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/new ... unded.html


I hope Ultimate considers taking over IND-PIT one of these days.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:07 am

http://www.onejet.com/press-archive/one-jet-statement

"One Jet will be transitioning its operations to a fully owned 135 operating certificate over the next 8 weeks. During this transition, we will be suspending scheduled services on current routes. "
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GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:24 am

I took a detour to the ticketing desks while getting dinner and they didn't have any information posted about the suspension.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Based on WN's extension
Saturdays are up to 42 flights, due to 8xMCO, 6xRSW, and 6xTPA
Weekdays lost 2 daily frequencies, due to the loss of EWR
Sunday frequencies remained the same

Next Spring Break is going to be packed to FL, we could see 2,000 seats on some Saturdays to Orlando
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:33 pm

Am I the only one that sees 8xMCO, 6xRSW and 6xTPA as ridiculous?
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:10 pm

Indy wrote:
Am I the only one that sees 8xMCO, 6xRSW and 6xTPA as ridiculous?


The demand to Florida during Spring Break is insane from IND
LFs last March on IND-MCO were
DL 92.2%
F9 93.8%
WN 92.4%
G4 95.0%

So, the frequency increases are definitely warranted.

I wonder if DL will upguage to a A319/A320 on IND-MCO and possibly a B717 on IND-RSW consider that route was at 96%LF

Based on March 23rd it appears IND has the most flights to MCO/SFB, RSW/PGD, and TPA/PIE/SRQ out of its counterparts
MCO/SFB
IND: 8xWN, 2x G4, and 1xDL=11
BNA: 10xWN, 1xDL=11
CMH/LCK: 7xWN, 1xG4, 1xNK, 1xDL=10
MKE: 8xWN, 1xDL, 1xG4=10
PIT/LBE: 6xWN, 2xNK, 1xDL, 1xG4=10
STL/BLV: 7xWN, 1xDL=8
MCI: 5x, 1xNK, 1xDL, 1xG4=8
CVG: 3xDL, 1xWN, 2xG4=6
CLE/CAK: 2xWN, 1xDL, 2xNK, 1xUA=6

RSW/PGD
IND: 6xWN, 1xDL, 1xG4=8
CMH/LCK: 5xWN, 1xNK, 1xDL, 1xG4=8
STL/BLV: 5xWN, 1xSY=6
PIT/LBE: 2xWN, 1xG4, 2xNK=5
MKE: 5xWN=5
CLE/CAK: 1xWN, 2xNK, 1xUA=4
CVG: 1xDL, 2xG4=3
BNA: 3xWN=3
MCI: 2xWN=2

TPA/PIE/SRQ
IND: 6xWN, 2xG4=8
CMH: 6xWN, 1xNK, 1xG4=8
BNA: 6xWN, 1xSY=7
PIT: 4xWN, 1xNK, 1xG4=6
STL/BLV: 4xWN, 1xG4=5
MKE: 5xWN=5
CVG: 2xDL, 2x=4
MCI: 3xWN=3
CLE/CAK: 1xWN, 1xNK=2
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm

^are you not counting F9?

EDIT, nevermind, their schedule isn't that far out yet.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:34 pm

Not just IND-Florida, but the whole Midwest-Florida that time of year is insane. I'm going to use Saturday March 9th as an example and I will exclude ORD.

MCO-MSP:
SY- 3x 738
NK- 1x 320
DL- 5x 757, 1X 75Y
*F9- 1x 320
WN- 1x 738

MCO-DTW:
DL- 6x 757, 1x 75Y, 1x 320
NK- 1x 321, 1x 320, 2x 319
*F9- 1x 321
WN- 1x 738

IND:-MCO/SFB:
WN- 8x 73W
*F9- 1x 320
DL- 1x 717
G4: 1x 320

IND is up there in terms of frequency to MSP but not really close in terms of capacity. Still, it's cool to compare and it's still a lot of seats.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:36 pm

No boost to Ft Lauderdale? that's interesting.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:48 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Not just IND-Florida, but the whole Midwest-Florida that time of year is insane. I'm going to use Saturday March 9th as an example and I will exclude ORD.

MCO-MSP:
SY- 3x 738
NK- 1x 320
DL- 5x 757, 1X 75Y
*F9- 1x 320
WN- 1x 738

MCO-DTW:
DL- 6x 757, 1x 75Y, 1x 320
NK- 1x 321, 1x 320, 2x 319
*F9- 1x 321
WN- 1x 738

IND:-MCO/SFB:
WN- 8x 73W
*F9- 1x 320
DL- 1x 717
G4: 2x 320

IND is up there in terms of frequency to MSP but not really close in terms of capacity. Still, it's cool to compare and it's still a lot of seats.


Wow, a bit surprising IND and MSP have the same frequency to Orlando, I checked IND-Tampa Bay and MSP-Tampa and I believe they have the same frequency as well.
Obviously the gauge is higher since DL loves sending the 757s to Florida, but it is still not what you expect.

It is quite impressive that there is so much capacity during this time of the year to Florida, however, despite what you might think avg fares are still sky high. I saw last year G4 was charing $200-400 one-way to SFB last spring break, and they are a ULCC. On DL from IND one-way to MCO can get quite expensive during this time as well.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:50 pm

stlgph wrote:
No boost to Ft Lauderdale? that's interesting.


LF was 85% last March at 3x daily, so no need to add too much more capacity
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
No boost to Ft Lauderdale? that's interesting.


LF was 85% last March at 3x daily, so no need to add too much more capacity


Is a little interesting given the possible cruise business, but then again Ft Myers has more retirement homes/condos and Orlando/Tampa have the amusement parks, so perhaps the 3x covers the WN needs for cruise traffic.

This just goes to show where the WN bread and butter is here. Shame BOS/EWR/LGA just didn't work.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:25 pm

stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
No boost to Ft Lauderdale? that's interesting.


LF was 85% last March at 3x daily, so no need to add too much more capacity


Is a little interesting given the possible cruise business, but then again Ft Myers has more retirement homes/condos and Orlando/Tampa have the amusement parks, so perhaps the 3x covers the WN needs for cruise traffic.

This just goes to show where the WN bread and butter is here. Shame BOS/EWR/LGA just didn't work.


It is interesting that RSW, TPA, and MCO make up almost half of WN's operation from IND on Saturdays. Probably means that any future adds will be limited, with maybe the possible exception of STL and BNA and frequency increases to Florida.
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SANFan
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:24 pm

Hey folks, I know you've got a lot of major issues on your plates already, but I hope it's ok if I vent for a moment here.

I was really disappointed when I checked the WN sked extension this morning. First thing I check is the route map for any new routes from SAN - none. The next item on my check list is the status of our "seasonal' routes - MKE, TPA and of course, IND. Have any of them returned to “active” yet? MKE – no. TPA – Yes! IND – NO!!

The numbers simply do not support WN’s continued limited service between IND & SAN. Even now that they have competition in the market – well, if you can call Frontier competition – WN apparently is determined to serve the route only between sometime in June and sometime in August (or maybe Labor Day if we’re lucky!)

It’s ridiculous and I continue to hope that someone – read: Alaska Airlines or maybe even DL, although those chances are very near 0 – will jump in and seriously SERVE the market! AS tried SFO-IND and failed (serious competition) but I don’t really think of SAN-IND as being served under the current conditions. So AS should be able to slip into SAN-IND and clean up!

Has anyone on that end of the route heard any chatter of anything happening in this market? Should I get my hopes up or continue in despair?

Grumble, grumble…. Thanks for listening. Feel free to comment.

bb
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:25 pm

stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
No boost to Ft Lauderdale? that's interesting.


LF was 85% last March at 3x daily, so no need to add too much more capacity


Is a little interesting given the possible cruise business, but then again Ft Myers has more retirement homes/condos and Orlando/Tampa have the amusement parks, so perhaps the 3x covers the WN needs for cruise traffic.

This just goes to show where the WN bread and butter is here. Shame BOS/EWR/LGA just didn't work.


This is the limitation of WN, in my mind, for the business traveler. BOS, EWR/LGA, DCA on a 1X or 2X daily schedule with not-so-ideal timings on 737s is really hard to make work in the business world. If I need to go to BOS for a full day meeting and return the next morning, I can't do so on WN. For DCA, if I needed to be there (flying from IND) for more than 5 hours but less than a full day, there was no same-day return option. The business traveler would rather smaller planes and more frequencies and that just doesn't sit well with WN's one-plane-fits-all model.

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