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ibthebigd wrote:If I am going to California in the winter I try to fly Southwest so I can have a stress free Connection in LAS or PHX.
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jplatts wrote:Midwestindy wrote:A few reasons:
WN
3. I have gotten burned too many times on the no-assigned seats
4. Being Delta Diamond I get upgraded, so I'd much rather be in at least E+ or F then get no reward for a normal seat on WN
6. No TATL
7. No lounges
I do love to fly on WN out of DAL, and I have gotten used to WN's open seating policies. There are also many individuals, including myself, who are willing to fly on WN, despite no TATL and no lounges.
stlgph wrote:I suspect in the next 2-3 years we'll see Southwest "up the ante" with offering power ports at the seats. Then another 2-3 years to roll them out across the fleet.
Midwestindy wrote:IndyHoosier wrote:Midwestindy wrote:...WN has joined UA on my no fly list
Just curious, why are they on your no fly list?
A few reasons:
WN
1. They cut the IND-DCA/LGA flights, so IND is only left with token service to some business markets like MDW and BOS
2. From my Chicago side of things, MDW is out of the way for me
3. I have gotten burned too many times on the no-assigned seats
4. Being Delta Diamond I get upgraded, so I'd much rather be in at least E+ or F then get no reward for a normal seat on WN
5. With FF status on DL and AA, I don't want to waste trips on other airlines, unless it is B6
6. No TATL
7. No lounges
I'll admit they do have good perks if you are traveling with families, but they just aren't my type
UA
1. Too many CR2s
2. I have a very strong distaste for EWR
3. Bad experiences with customer service
Redeeming thing about UA is that they have LH as a partner
Jshank83 wrote:My home airport isn't Indy but I 2nd your thoughts on UA. I actually love their hub cities, as they are the places I fly the most (Chicago,Denver,SFO, NYC, DC) but they fly way to many 145s and 200s. Thus, I don't fly them much.
I like DL the most, but their hubs aren't places I fly often, but I usually choose them internationally.
WN I have a love/hate relationship with. Love their flexibility but as more and more people buy early bird their seating options aren't as great as they used to be. Plus, the airplane geek in me gets bored with basically the same plane all the time. They by far have the most nonstop options from my home airport though, so I have to balance that with risking a layover (especially in winter). Agree with someone else's point on movies. I recently just started buying them on the WN flights if nothing is on the free tv. My happiness is worth $5. Haha.
I've learned in life and on this site though.. some people like some things, other people like other things. Every airline fits each person differently.
Fargo wrote:
Spot on about WN, I'll add that in addition to all that, my biggest issue with them is the cult following it has with its flyers. They tend to be apologists that think WN is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They always clamor about bags fly free, transfarency, no change fees, how they are always the "cheapest", how they are so friendly and how they make the most sense to fly with (due to p2p flying, even though their flyers tend to not even know what that means), blah blah blah. It's really getting annoying, most of them are people who don't fly often and know little about the industry.
I also second your issues with UA, and I may add to that list that unless you live in the biggest markets (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, Washington D.C, etc). their network makes little sense. DL and even AA have better options if you want less congested secondary market hubs. However, I will say if UA would upgauge more to mainline (*cough cough, A220/E2, *cough *cough) and larger regional jets, plus put a hub in the southeastern US (which unfortunately, there really isn't a good option), then they'd be much better.
Midwestindy wrote:IndyHoosier wrote:Midwestindy wrote:...WN has joined UA on my no fly list
Just curious, why are they on your no fly list?
A few reasons:
WN
1. They cut the IND-DCA/LGA flights, so IND is only left with token service to some business markets like MDW and BOS
2. From my Chicago side of things, MDW is out of the way for me
3. I have gotten burned too many times on the no-assigned seats
4. Being Delta Diamond I get upgraded, so I'd much rather be in at least E+ or F then get no reward for a normal seat on WN
5. With FF status on DL and AA, I don't want to waste trips on other airlines, unless it is B6
6. No TATL
7. No lounges
flyboy80 wrote:I haven't really been following fuel prices at all, I know they were up and putting more pressure on the airlines even though it doesn't seem we've seen that 'highly' reflected in the airlines' schedules. Instead, they're raising other fees to compensate but seeming to keep the capacity or even add in some cases. One thing I've always wondered about airline economics is hub vs p2p, I guess it depends on the carrier and the network specifically. But Delta is changing, especially with the reductions in RJs and the addition of "game-changing" A220s, as for which we've only heard speculation and no real schedules have been loaded? Last I heard the initial bases are NYC (I expect routes with 4 or 5 CR9s/175s will see A220s and maybe lose a frequency) As the A220s come online with Delta I will be so interested to see what it means for IND from the standpoint that fleet shuffling will evolve more, especially as the A220 numbers build up and DL can move around more aircraft in parts of the system, such as 717s. I would love to see a market like IND-DTW at five mainline and no RJs, but I'm sure that won't happen given the importance of maintaining frequency. I really hoped/expected end of summer there'd be announcements about new p2p winter/spring flying from IND such as E175 additions to markets like TPA and AUS and gradually build the IND presence a 'little' more. I've always been skeptical about IND's potential to harness a "full-size" focus operation, especially for DL, that includes big markets like ORD, SFO, LAS, DEN, some Texas and more Florida, but there definitely seems to be room for some enhanced presence on RJs to a couple more markets.
Midwestindy wrote:
I personally love DL's hubs, DTW is great, SLC is great, MSP and ATL are pretty good, so overall DL has really good hubs. Which is one the reasons they are at the top of my list.
Midwestindy wrote:.
flyboy80 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
I am thinking there will be some adds for late spring/early summer, and usually those aren't announced until December-February, so you may have to wait a little longer.
If any market is going to go all mainline it will be MSP, I think NYC/BOS/DTW will always see RJs due to the YX base in IND.
If more p2p does happen, I don't expect ORD, SFO, or DEN based on RDU's trajectory, it will probably be more like markets including: AUS, BWI, TPA, LAS, and BDL. I think those markets will be much more sustainable in a focus city operation.
I wouldn't expect ORD, SFO, DEN from Indy- to my point this market won't be a "Boston" or even Cinncinati. I agree about the others you mentioned and would be truly surprised to see IND-LAS. If anything more comes of West Coast by DL from Indy I think it will be a seasonal second SLC perhaps- maybe LAX.
There was a lot of speculation on long, thin, key p2p routes for the A220, however I've heard that Delta has certain restraints in regard to their purchase agreement, maybe MTOW related or something, and utilization of these frames which would make it unlikely to perform anything longer than perhaps IND-SLC; If I'm understanding these limitations correctly the A220 wouldn't be a candidate or perfect plane to replace or supplement current IND-SEA/LAX but maybe SLC?
I constantly hear that CVG is a more "important" market for DL vs IND. Is this really the case? Is Indiana's economic climate perhaps making a case that could end up hurting CVGs leading focus/city hub status for Delta? I know Delta is ahead in mainline capacity at CVG, but doesn't seem by much, they do have more than a few more mainline city pairs VS IND which gives CVG a more robust interest and perception in the system vs IND.
Jshank83 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
I personally love DL's hubs, DTW is great, SLC is great, MSP and ATL are pretty good, so overall DL has really good hubs. Which is one the reasons they are at the top of my list.
I do love DTW and try to fly thru there going east or TATL. For me it is more the cities they are in than the airports (same with UA, more about cities than airports). I don't go to any DL cities much except NYC. One other thing I really like about DL is no 135/45s and few 200s. My airport only has one 200 route (to CVG). Does IND have any on DL?
ibthebigd wrote:https://www.ibj.com/articles/70657-20m-in-state-incentives-targeted-to-help-airport-lure-international-flights
Interesting read
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kavok wrote:I just can’t see DL ever doing ORD, focus city or not. Chicago is simply too close, and drivable. Especially with ORD being on the far side of the city.
For similar reasons, I can’t see DL ever flying to any Midwest airports on the east side of the Mississippi River, besides their DTW hub. Those airports are all close enough to be drivable for even business pax.
fedex1 wrote:Think MEX would be daily service? Less than daily? Seasonal?
fedex1 wrote:What is IND-CDG running during the winter? 3x weekly?
ibthebigd wrote:https://www.ibj.com/articles/70657-20m-in-state-incentives-targeted-to-help-airport-lure-international-flights
Interesting read
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stlgph wrote:ibthebigd wrote:https://www.ibj.com/articles/70657-20m-in-state-incentives-targeted-to-help-airport-lure-international-flights
Interesting read
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Ambition is one thing, and I'm happy to see the IND airport do well, but at this time, I feel this is them getting ahead of themselves.
fedex1 wrote:Think MEX would be daily service? Less than daily? Seasonal?
stlgph wrote:Money and resources, for now, would be better spent on supporting CDG-IND. If it doesn't work and gets axed, that will cause some problems with every political hack in the area interested in city and county politics. Give it at least 18 months, if not the full two years, then start in.
fedex1 wrote:stlgph wrote:Money and resources, for now, would be better spent on supporting CDG-IND. If it doesn't work and gets axed, that will cause some problems with every political hack in the area interested in city and county politics. Give it at least 18 months, if not the full two years, then start in.
I agree!
FA9295 wrote:fedex1 wrote:Think MEX would be daily service? Less than daily? Seasonal?
SEA has daily service to MEX, and PDX is 6x weekly (not operated on Tuesdays, for some reason...)
MEX-IND would do just fine year-round, at least 4x weekly.
Does IND have Volaris to GDL?
stlgph wrote:Europe is not off the table.
And even still, if CDG-IND tanks and you're out and about tossing around millions in play money for crap that isn't working, or given a chance to prove itself before moving on to the next level, it does nothing to help the 10 year plan.
stlgph wrote:It's not their choice.
Midwestindy wrote:stlgph wrote:It's not their choice.
They are on the team who decides where the next targets for int'l flights will be: https://www.ibj.com/articles/70657-20m- ... al-flights
Indy wrote:The $20 million wasn't pulled out of the governor's backside. There is a plan. There is a reason they have targeted certain destinations. They didn't come up with Europe just hoping for the best. They are targeting Europe likely because they know they are close to supporting a second flight. They've been working in Asia because they know they are close and they have the business demand to back it. These aren't A.netters sitting around just dreaming crap up. They have a plan and they are executing it. They aren't going to get this kind of money now if they are years away from landing a route. They are getting this kind of money because they are close. They got the money for the DL flight just a few months before it was announced.
kavok wrote:As for an IND-Asia flight, I could see a regular cargo flight possibly. But as far as passenger service, I really struggle seeing that one. I would be curious what others think is an Asian destination that makes sense.
I know China flights are hurting for yields in most places already, and China isn't exactly the most easiest of places to make a connection other places in Asia.
I guess Tokyo is good from a geographic standpoint and probably the largest market from IND. That being said, the Japanese carriers have been slow to expand anywhere in the USA recently, sans a SEA addition that has the backing of an AS connecting codeshare.
ICN? I mean, maybe you could tap into the expanding DL/KE JV. But the hub in MSP just was awarded that service, and the DL hub at SLC doesn’t even have an ICN flight yet.
Again, curious what others thoughts are as to which Asian destination might be the target.
zackary747 wrote:kavok wrote:As for an IND-Asia flight, I could see a regular cargo flight possibly. But as far as passenger service, I really struggle seeing that one. I would be curious what others think is an Asian destination that makes sense.
I know China flights are hurting for yields in most places already, and China isn't exactly the most easiest of places to make a connection other places in Asia.
I guess Tokyo is good from a geographic standpoint and probably the largest market from IND. That being said, the Japanese carriers have been slow to expand anywhere in the USA recently, sans a SEA addition that has the backing of an AS connecting codeshare.
ICN? I mean, maybe you could tap into the expanding DL/KE JV. But the hub in MSP just was awarded that service, and the DL hub at SLC doesn’t even have an ICN flight yet.
Again, curious what others thoughts are as to which Asian destination might be the target.
I think Tokyo is the only option because...
1. Connections without back tracking are needed. Tokyo is the only one with that geography. Also, Japan is our Asian bulk. Give the bulk the non-stop and have the rest connect.
2. It'll have to be a foreign carrier as DLs connections are not very good. Which foreign carrier will it be? Who knows.
3. I don't see ICN due to the geography.
Bluegrass60 wrote:zackary747 wrote:kavok wrote:As for an IND-Asia flight, I could see a regular cargo flight possibly. But as far as passenger service, I really struggle seeing that one. I would be curious what others think is an Asian destination that makes sense.
I know China flights are hurting for yields in most places already, and China isn't exactly the most easiest of places to make a connection other places in Asia.
I guess Tokyo is good from a geographic standpoint and probably the largest market from IND. That being said, the Japanese carriers have been slow to expand anywhere in the USA recently, sans a SEA addition that has the backing of an AS connecting codeshare.
ICN? I mean, maybe you could tap into the expanding DL/KE JV. But the hub in MSP just was awarded that service, and the DL hub at SLC doesn’t even have an ICN flight yet.
Again, curious what others thoughts are as to which Asian destination might be the target.
I think Tokyo is the only option because...
1. Connections without back tracking are needed. Tokyo is the only one with that geography. Also, Japan is our Asian bulk. Give the bulk the non-stop and have the rest connect.
2. It'll have to be a foreign carrier as DLs connections are not very good. Which foreign carrier will it be? Who knows.
3. I don't see ICN due to the geography.
"IND to anywhere in Asia is many years off.,,,per Boyd Consulting...and he knows what he speaks....it is about economics. In meantime, IND-SEA, SFO, LAX among others provide excellent service to multiple points in Asia via connection. IND would better spend resources on more likely opportunities in Mexico and Central America, Caribbean. Maybe a ULCC to Europe but that could hurt the DL CDG service. Surrounding airports ( STL, SDF, CVG and umm the 800# Gorilla: ORD) also have the resources to go after the same type of int'l service that IND would like and that will serve as a limit on just what IND can get and support."
kavok wrote:As for an IND-Asia flight, I could see a regular cargo flight possibly.
zackary747 wrote:Bluegrass60 wrote:zackary747 wrote:
I think Tokyo is the only option because...
1. Connections without back tracking are needed. Tokyo is the only one with that geography. Also, Japan is our Asian bulk. Give the bulk the non-stop and have the rest connect.
2. It'll have to be a foreign carrier as DLs connections are not very good. Which foreign carrier will it be? Who knows.
3. I don't see ICN due to the geography.
"IND to anywhere in Asia is many years off.,,,per Boyd Consulting...and he knows what he speaks....it is about economics. In meantime, IND-SEA, SFO, LAX among others provide excellent service to multiple points in Asia via connection. IND would better spend resources on more likely opportunities in Mexico and Central America, Caribbean. Maybe a ULCC to Europe but that could hurt the DL CDG service. Surrounding airports ( STL, SDF, CVG and umm the 800# Gorilla: ORD) also have the resources to go after the same type of int'l service that IND would like and that will serve as a limit on just what IND can get and support."
The commerce secretary is going to have much more knowledge on if a flight to anywhere will work or not than the CEO of Boyd Consulting. The commerce secretary is in the negotiation room and Boyd is not. I think we all know who is more credible. The commerce secretary (which is part of the IEDC).
A LCC to Europe will not hurt the CDG flight. That is an anet fallacy. A LCC to Europe doesn't even remotely attract the same customer base. The customer bases are drastically different. LCC customers don't even use the very expensive CDG flight in the first place, they connect in ORD for the cheaper flight.
Indy wrote:Sorry Bluegrass but I think you are wrong on Boyd. His knowledge of IND-Asia demand is nothing compared to local officials. Boyd is a jack of all trades and master of none. Local negotiators are experts on IND-Asia. They are the ones with inside information on what the carriers want and which companies are backing a potential route. They have the facts. Boyd only has his opinion which is worth about as much as ours.