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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:14 pm

IND-BOS goes Sat only, WN is in an all out retreat

July 2018-2019 weekday comparison
IND-BWI 3x-4x
IND-MDW 2x-1x
IND-BOS 2x-0x
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IND-BOS goes Sat only, WN is in an all out retreat

July 2018-2019 weekday comparison
IND-BWI 3x-4x
IND-MDW 2x-1x
IND-BOS 2x-0x


I wonder if they know/think JetBlue is on the way perhaps?
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:03 pm

If Southwest is basing decisions on what another carrier might or might not do then it's time to close up shop and go home.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:06 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
IND-BOS goes Sat only, WN is in an all out retreat

July 2018-2019 weekday comparison
IND-BWI 3x-4x
IND-MDW 2x-1x
IND-BOS 2x-0x


I wonder if they know/think JetBlue is on the way perhaps?


stlgph wrote:
If Southwest is basing decisions on what another carrier might or might not do then it's time to close up shop and go home.


Vice versa, the airport may have told B6 that WN was effectively leaving the market.

WN had the largest market share on the route, so it's going to leave a gapping whole for someone to fill, whether it is DL or B6
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:11 pm

Well, part of me is convinced the mystery domestic airline is jetBlue. Spirit already announced AUS (not saying they won't add another market before the end of the year, but there aren't many routes they could do out of here without over-saturating everything). BOS is now wide open for B6. Now we wait....
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:18 pm

BOS/IND is selling plenty of dates on 70 seat RJs for less than 250 round trip 3 times a day.

Not really anything spectacular going on here.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:06 pm

stlgph wrote:
BOS/IND is selling plenty of dates on 70 seat RJs for less than 250 round trip 3 times a day.

Not really anything spectacular going on here.


What's your point?
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:26 pm

Come on man, seriously?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:01 pm

stlgph wrote:
Come on man, seriously?


I have already pointed out that IND-BOS performs well for DL, and the exit of WN will prompt either B6 or DL to increase service. ~300 seats leaving the market is a very sizable amount.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:43 pm

Looked at some of the WN schedules for IND, and it looks like they are creating some more ICOs.

However the Summer schedule is showing daily one-way weekday seats going from 5818 in 2018, to 4992 in 2019, plus a loss of 4 weekday frequencies next summer.

All in all: BOS, LAX, MDW, EWR, DCA, LGA, and SAN have been cut, trimmed, or had their season shortened by WN in the past 2 years. For a gain of 1xweekly flights to AUS, CUN, and a 6x weekly flight to OAK.

Based on this DL will likely be in the lead for market share by sometime next year.

I wonder if WN will end up dropping IND-SAN/ATL/MDW/MSY altogether, based on their recent actions I wouldn't rule it out.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:58 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looked at some of the WN schedules for IND, and it looks like they are creating some more ICOs.

However the Summer schedule is showing daily one-way weekday seats going from 5818 in 2018, to 4992 in 2019, plus a loss of 4 weekday frequencies next summer.

All in all: BOS, LAX, MDW, EWR, DCA, LGA, and SAN have been cut, trimmed, or had their season shortened by WN in the past 2 years. For a gain of 1xweekly flights to AUS, CUN, and a 6x weekly flight to OAK.

Based on this DL will likely be in the lead for market share by sometime next year.

I wonder if WN will end up dropping IND-SAN/ATL/MDW/MSY altogether, based on their recent actions I wouldn't rule it out.


When did OAK go to 6x weekly?
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:02 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looked at some of the WN schedules for IND, and it looks like they are creating some more ICOs.

However the Summer schedule is showing daily one-way weekday seats going from 5818 in 2018, to 4992 in 2019, plus a loss of 4 weekday frequencies next summer.

All in all: BOS, LAX, MDW, EWR, DCA, LGA, and SAN have been cut, trimmed, or had their season shortened by WN in the past 2 years. For a gain of 1xweekly flights to AUS, CUN, and a 6x weekly flight to OAK.

Based on this DL will likely be in the lead for market share by sometime next year.

I wonder if WN will end up dropping IND-SAN/ATL/MDW/MSY altogether, based on their recent actions I wouldn't rule it out.


MDW seems like too big a station to actually drop it.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Looked at some of the WN schedules for IND, and it looks like they are creating some more ICOs.

However the Summer schedule is showing daily one-way weekday seats going from 5818 in 2018, to 4992 in 2019, plus a loss of 4 weekday frequencies next summer.

All in all: BOS, LAX, MDW, EWR, DCA, LGA, and SAN have been cut, trimmed, or had their season shortened by WN in the past 2 years. For a gain of 1xweekly flights to AUS, CUN, and a 6x weekly flight to OAK.

Based on this DL will likely be in the lead for market share by sometime next year.

I wonder if WN will end up dropping IND-SAN/ATL/MDW/MSY altogether, based on their recent actions I wouldn't rule it out.


MDW seems like too big a station to actually drop it.


I agree. They wouldn't cut IND-MDW and keep CVG/SDF-MDW. MCI is more likely to go. I also don't see ATL going anywhere as they do ATL to lots of different markets. As far as the others go, I wouldn't be surprised.
Last edited by zackary747 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:04 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Looked at some of the WN schedules for IND, and it looks like they are creating some more ICOs.

However the Summer schedule is showing daily one-way weekday seats going from 5818 in 2018, to 4992 in 2019, plus a loss of 4 weekday frequencies next summer.

All in all: BOS, LAX, MDW, EWR, DCA, LGA, and SAN have been cut, trimmed, or had their season shortened by WN in the past 2 years. For a gain of 1xweekly flights to AUS, CUN, and a 6x weekly flight to OAK.

Based on this DL will likely be in the lead for market share by sometime next year.

I wonder if WN will end up dropping IND-SAN/ATL/MDW/MSY altogether, based on their recent actions I wouldn't rule it out.


When did OAK go to 6x weekly?


Saturday flight is gone starting in December-end of schedule
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:06 pm

With Hawaii starting in rumored February I'd think Saturday be a prime day for OAK

What the PDEW to Hawaii?

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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:07 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Looked at some of the WN schedules for IND, and it looks like they are creating some more ICOs.

However the Summer schedule is showing daily one-way weekday seats going from 5818 in 2018, to 4992 in 2019, plus a loss of 4 weekday frequencies next summer.

All in all: BOS, LAX, MDW, EWR, DCA, LGA, and SAN have been cut, trimmed, or had their season shortened by WN in the past 2 years. For a gain of 1xweekly flights to AUS, CUN, and a 6x weekly flight to OAK.

Based on this DL will likely be in the lead for market share by sometime next year.

I wonder if WN will end up dropping IND-SAN/ATL/MDW/MSY altogether, based on their recent actions I wouldn't rule it out.


MDW seems like too big a station to actually drop it.


I agree. They wouldn't cut IND-MDW and keep CVG/SDF-MDW. MCI is more likely to go. I also don't see ATL going anywhere as they do ATL to lots of different markets. As far as the others go, I wouldn't be surprised.


They have cut IND-MDW before, what is to stop them from doing it again? Especially with AA rapidly expanding on the route, and WN having little to no O&D on the route.

CVG/SDF aren't good comparisons, as both have much more limited connections to the west on WN, therefore the MDW flight serves a more important role for those stations.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:13 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

MDW seems like too big a station to actually drop it.


I agree. They wouldn't cut IND-MDW and keep CVG/SDF-MDW. MCI is more likely to go. I also don't see ATL going anywhere as they do ATL to lots of different markets. As far as the others go, I wouldn't be surprised.


They have cut IND-MDW before, what is to stop them from doing it again? Especially with AA rapidly expanding on the route, and WN having little to no O&D on the route.

CVG/SDF aren't good comparisons, as both have much more limited connections to the west on WN, therefore the MDW flight serves a more important role for those stations.


You make a good point there but that was many years ago when they cut it. They serve MDW more heavily now to those connection markets. I just feel MDW is the better connecting option compared to MCI. I can see them doing reduction at MDW (maybe 1x weekly flight and keeping MCI 1-2x daily, or vise versa). I just think in today's modern era MCI would be more likely to get cut over MDW (again my opinion and I could be wrong). WN isn't simply going to throw a nuke on the operation here (I think we all know that). I truly think WNs Boston doings are a sign of what our mystery airline is going to be (I am NOT saying WN knows about jetBlues plans). Spirit and Sun Country wouldn't make sense here knowing the routes they would do are extremely saturated by G4, WN, and F9.

Also, my hopes for WN IND-BNA have kind of gone down the drain. I hope G4 would consider starting that route.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:24 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
With Hawaii starting in rumored February I'd think Saturday be a prime day for OAK

What the PDEW to Hawaii?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Based on the O&D survey, I believe at max PDEW to all of Hawaii is around 80-90

zackary747 wrote:
You make a good point there but that was many years ago when they cut it. They serve MDW more heavily now to those connection markets. I just feel MDW is the better connecting option compared to MCI. I can see them doing reduction at MDW (maybe 1x weekly flight and keeping MCI 1-2x daily, or vise versa). I just think in today's modern era MCI would be more likely to get cut over MDW (again my opinion and I could be wrong). WN isn't simply going to throw a nuke on the operation here (I think we all know that). I truly think WNs Boston doings are a sign of what our mystery airline is going to be (I am NOT saying WN knows about jetBlues plans). Spirit and Sun Country wouldn't make sense here knowing the routes they would do are extremely saturated by G4, WN, and F9.

Also, my hopes for WN IND-BNA have kind of gone down the drain. I hope G4 would consider starting that route.


However, MCI has much higher O&D than MDW, they may want to shift MDW to a market with more O&D and higher fares.

We will see what happens, but I wouldn't put too much confidence in WN at IND. I think the core markets are safe (Florida, PHX, DEN, LAS, DAL, HOU, BWI), but outside of that I don't think anything is off the table.

Speaking of G4 they have been relatively quiet of late, there are supposed to be some more announcements (outside of the new airline) by the end of the year and early next so it will be interesting to see who it is.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:54 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Also, my hopes for WN IND-BNA have kind of gone down the drain. I hope G4 would consider starting that route.


Only thing I will say about this is if they keep with the theme of moving traffic out of ATL and BNA sort of takes it place, then they could just move the flight over from ATL to BNA. Not sure how likely it would be fore awhile, but something to keep an eye on with ATL. It seems like they are shrinking it but I haven't seen the numbers.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
They have cut IND-MDW before, what is to stop them from doing it again? Especially with AA rapidly expanding on the route, and WN having little to no O&D on the route.

CVG/SDF aren't good comparisons, as both have much more limited connections to the west on WN, therefore the MDW flight serves a more important role for those stations.


There is more O&D on CVG-MDW and SDF-MDW than there is on IND-MDW, and CVG and SDF are also both further from MDW than IND is.

Here is the average number of passengers per day on CVG-MDW, SDF-MDW, and IND-MDW in Q2 2018 (both directions included):
IND-MDW - 41 passengers per day
SDF-MDW - 195 passengers per day
CVG-MDW - 241 passengers per day
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:03 pm

jplatts wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
They have cut IND-MDW before, what is to stop them from doing it again? Especially with AA rapidly expanding on the route, and WN having little to no O&D on the route.

CVG/SDF aren't good comparisons, as both have much more limited connections to the west on WN, therefore the MDW flight serves a more important role for those stations.


There is more O&D on CVG-MDW and SDF-MDW than there is on IND-MDW, and CVG and SDF are also both further from MDW than IND is.

Here is the average number of passengers per day on CVG-MDW, SDF-MDW, and IND-MDW in Q2 2018 (both directions included):
IND-MDW - 41 passengers per day
SDF-MDW - 195 passengers per day
CVG-MDW - 241 passengers per day


You have the CMH numbers?
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:09 pm

zackary747 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here is the average number of passengers per day on CVG-MDW, SDF-MDW, and IND-MDW in Q2 2018 (both directions included):
IND-MDW - 41 passengers per day
SDF-MDW - 195 passengers per day
CVG-MDW - 241 passengers per day


You have the CMH numbers?

CMH-MDW - 462 passengers per day

CMH is also further from MDW than IND, SDF, and CVG are, and WN also has a much bigger presence at CMH than at SDF or CVG.

Here are the distances of IND-MDW, SDF-MDW, CVG-MDW, and CMH-MDW:
IND-MDW - 162 mi
SDF-MDW - 271 mi
CVG-MDW - 249 mi
CMH-MDW - 283 mi

There is also currently less demand for service on the US3 carriers at CMH than there is at IND or CVG. IND also actually has almost as much demand for service on the US3 carriers than CVG does, even with IND being in a Midwestern market that is similar in size to CVG and even with WN being much bigger in the IND market than in the CVG market.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:52 pm

WN continues growing at BNA and reducing IND. DL however is growing...and appears to be winning at IND (vs WN). If I were in IND....seems it is better to have a growing DL....
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:31 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IndyHoosier wrote:
Does anyone know when we'll get the first numbers about how the IND-CDG flight is doing?


I will post May numbers on Friday


It's F5 Friday for me waiting to hear the numbers (although June's will be far more interesting). If my guess is correct then May outbound load factor should be something in the neighborhood of 79.5%. Inbound was pathetic.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:46 pm

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
IndyHoosier wrote:
Does anyone know when we'll get the first numbers about how the IND-CDG flight is doing?


I will post May numbers on Friday


It's F5 Friday for me waiting to hear the numbers (although June's will be far more interesting). If my guess is correct then May outbound load factor should be something in the neighborhood of 79.5%. Inbound was pathetic.


So close, Outbound LF of 79.6%, and Inbound of 43.4%, definitely not good! But considering Delta said the flight was doing successful the June LFs are probably much better, also the flights were carrying a decent amount of cargo relative to other DL flights.

IND-YYZ had decent LFs for the first time in a while at 80.5% outbound.

Domestically:
DL: IND-BOS-87%; BOS-IND-89.5%
WN: IND-BOS-71%; BOS-IND-79.6%

F9: IND-SAN-76.9%; SAN-IND-81.8%
WN: IND-SAN-95.6%; SAN-IND-87.9%

WN: IND-OAK-81%; OAK-IND-82%
AS: IND-SFO-64%; SFO-IND-61.4%
UA: IND-SFO-63.7%; SFO-IND-75.4% -AS leaving will improve LFs for UA

DL: IND-SEA-77.8%; SEA-IND-88.1%
AS: IND-SEA-85.7%; SEA-IND-91.7%

WN: IND-LAX-89.2%; LAX-IND-93.5%
WN: IND-EWR-63.6%; EWR-IND-61.9%
WN: IND-MCI-69.9%; MCI-IND-52.8%
WN: IND-MDW-68.5%; MDW-IND-70%
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I will post May numbers on Friday


It's F5 Friday for me waiting to hear the numbers (although June's will be far more interesting). If my guess is correct then May outbound load factor should be something in the neighborhood of 79.5%. Inbound was pathetic.


So close, Outbound LF of 79.6%, and Inbound of 43.4%, definitely not good! But considering Delta said the flight was doing successful the June LFs are probably much better, also the flights were carrying a decent amount of cargo relative to other DL flights.

IND-YYZ had decent LFs for the first time in a while at 80.5% outbound.

Domestically:
DL: IND-BOS-87%; BOS-IND-89.5%
WN: IND-BOS-71%; BOS-IND-79.6%

F9: IND-SAN-76.9%; SAN-IND-81.8%
WN: IND-SAN-95.6%; SAN-IND-87.9%

WN: IND-OAK-81%; OAK-IND-82%
AS: IND-SFO-64%; SFO-IND-61.4%
UA: IND-SFO-63.7%; SFO-IND-75.4% -AS leaving will improve LFs for UA

DL: IND-SEA-77.8%; SEA-IND-88.1%
AS: IND-SEA-85.7%; SEA-IND-91.7%

WN: IND-LAX-89.2%; LAX-IND-93.5%
WN: IND-EWR-63.6%; EWR-IND-61.9%
WN: IND-MCI-69.9%; MCI-IND-52.8%
WN: IND-MDW-68.5%; MDW-IND-70%


Those CDG numbers aren't surprising as we saw it coming. Can't wait to see the June/July numbers as those will be significantly better and there will be a much bigger sample size to look at as well. Are the domestic routes May numbers or a further out month?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:46 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
kindeham wrote:

It's F5 Friday for me waiting to hear the numbers (although June's will be far more interesting). If my guess is correct then May outbound load factor should be something in the neighborhood of 79.5%. Inbound was pathetic.


So close, Outbound LF of 79.6%, and Inbound of 43.4%, definitely not good! But considering Delta said the flight was doing successful the June LFs are probably much better, also the flights were carrying a decent amount of cargo relative to other DL flights.

IND-YYZ had decent LFs for the first time in a while at 80.5% outbound.

Domestically:
DL: IND-BOS-87%; BOS-IND-89.5%
WN: IND-BOS-71%; BOS-IND-79.6%

F9: IND-SAN-76.9%; SAN-IND-81.8%
WN: IND-SAN-95.6%; SAN-IND-87.9%

WN: IND-OAK-81%; OAK-IND-82%
AS: IND-SFO-64%; SFO-IND-61.4%
UA: IND-SFO-63.7%; SFO-IND-75.4% -AS leaving will improve LFs for UA

DL: IND-SEA-77.8%; SEA-IND-88.1%
AS: IND-SEA-85.7%; SEA-IND-91.7%

WN: IND-LAX-89.2%; LAX-IND-93.5%
WN: IND-EWR-63.6%; EWR-IND-61.9%
WN: IND-MCI-69.9%; MCI-IND-52.8%
WN: IND-MDW-68.5%; MDW-IND-70%


Those CDG numbers aren't surprising as we saw it coming. Can't wait to see the June/July numbers as those will be significantly better and there will be a much bigger sample size to look at as well. Are the domestic routes May numbers or a further out month?


Domestic is for August
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:48 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

So close, Outbound LF of 79.6%, and Inbound of 43.4%, definitely not good! But considering Delta said the flight was doing successful the June LFs are probably much better, also the flights were carrying a decent amount of cargo relative to other DL flights.

IND-YYZ had decent LFs for the first time in a while at 80.5% outbound.

Domestically:
DL: IND-BOS-87%; BOS-IND-89.5%
WN: IND-BOS-71%; BOS-IND-79.6%

F9: IND-SAN-76.9%; SAN-IND-81.8%
WN: IND-SAN-95.6%; SAN-IND-87.9%

WN: IND-OAK-81%; OAK-IND-82%
AS: IND-SFO-64%; SFO-IND-61.4%
UA: IND-SFO-63.7%; SFO-IND-75.4% -AS leaving will improve LFs for UA

DL: IND-SEA-77.8%; SEA-IND-88.1%
AS: IND-SEA-85.7%; SEA-IND-91.7%

WN: IND-LAX-89.2%; LAX-IND-93.5%
WN: IND-EWR-63.6%; EWR-IND-61.9%
WN: IND-MCI-69.9%; MCI-IND-52.8%
WN: IND-MDW-68.5%; MDW-IND-70%


Those CDG numbers aren't surprising as we saw it coming. Can't wait to see the June/July numbers as those will be significantly better and there will be a much bigger sample size to look at as well. Are the domestic routes May numbers or a further out month?


Domestic is for August


That's what I was thinking. Just wanted to make sure.

Also, I want to bring up the SEA flight.

If I remember correctly AS started using the B738 heavily come October/November 2017 (my memory may be off, can't quite remember). Fast forward to 2018 it seems like they're keeping the B739 on the route a bit longer. Perhaps the demand for the SEA flight has grown from last year?
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:49 pm

I believe those MCI-IND nonstops were horribly timed one at 515am -ish and the other at 845pm-ish if I'm not mistaken
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:51 pm

RJNUT wrote:
I believe those MCI-IND nonstops were horribly timed one at 515am -ish and the other at 845pm-ish if I'm not mistaken


That could explain it. WN is known for doing that sometimes.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:03 pm

RJNUT wrote:
I believe those MCI-IND nonstops were horribly timed one at 515am -ish and the other at 845pm-ish if I'm not mistaken


Times were 11:30am and 12am arrivals in IND and 5:40am and 5:35pm departures from IND. I believe the timings allow for more connections in MCI

zackary747 wrote:

Also, I want to bring up the SEA flight.

If I remember correctly AS started using the B738 heavily come October/November 2017 (my memory may be off, can't quite remember). Fast forward to 2018 it seems like they're keeping the B739 on the route a bit longer. Perhaps the demand for the SEA flight has grown from last year?


It has grown significantly, It'll be interesting to see the numbers come out, but based on Q2 growth the IND-SEA market is rather large now.

Hopefully, either DL or AS changes their flight time though, because there is no point for the consumer in them running the flights at the same time.

I can post other routes as well, I just posted some that caught my eye
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IndyHoosier
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

So close, Outbound LF of 79.6%, and Inbound of 43.4%, definitely not good! But considering Delta said the flight was doing successful the June LFs are probably much better, also the flights were carrying a decent amount of cargo relative to other DL flights.

IND-YYZ had decent LFs for the first time in a while at 80.5% outbound.

Domestically:
DL: IND-BOS-87%; BOS-IND-89.5%
WN: IND-BOS-71%; BOS-IND-79.6%

F9: IND-SAN-76.9%; SAN-IND-81.8%
WN: IND-SAN-95.6%; SAN-IND-87.9%

WN: IND-OAK-81%; OAK-IND-82%
AS: IND-SFO-64%; SFO-IND-61.4%
UA: IND-SFO-63.7%; SFO-IND-75.4% -AS leaving will improve LFs for UA

DL: IND-SEA-77.8%; SEA-IND-88.1%
AS: IND-SEA-85.7%; SEA-IND-91.7%

WN: IND-LAX-89.2%; LAX-IND-93.5%
WN: IND-EWR-63.6%; EWR-IND-61.9%
WN: IND-MCI-69.9%; MCI-IND-52.8%
WN: IND-MDW-68.5%; MDW-IND-70%


Those CDG numbers aren't surprising as we saw it coming. Can't wait to see the June/July numbers as those will be significantly better and there will be a much bigger sample size to look at as well. Are the domestic routes May numbers or a further out month?


Domestic is for August


Do you know why there is such a lag with airports releasing international numbers?
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
I believe those MCI-IND nonstops were horribly timed one at 515am -ish and the other at 845pm-ish if I'm not mistaken


Times were 11:30am and 12am arrivals in IND and 5:40am and 5:35pm departures from IND. I believe the timings allow for more connections in MCI

zackary747 wrote:

Also, I want to bring up the SEA flight.

If I remember correctly AS started using the B738 heavily come October/November 2017 (my memory may be off, can't quite remember). Fast forward to 2018 it seems like they're keeping the B739 on the route a bit longer. Perhaps the demand for the SEA flight has grown from last year?


It has grown significantly, It'll be interesting to see the numbers come out, but based on Q2 growth the IND-SEA market is rather large now.

Hopefully, either DL or AS changes their flight time though, because there is no point for the consumer in them running the flights at the same time.

I can post other routes as well, I just posted some that caught my eye


I absolutely agree about the flight times. I'd like to see DL run it as a red eye like they do with LAX. Looking at the June/July numbers both DL and AS were cranking low to mid 90%s. Do you think it is possible that AS could add a second SEA flight (summer only) come 2019/2020?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:41 pm

IndyHoosier wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

Those CDG numbers aren't surprising as we saw it coming. Can't wait to see the June/July numbers as those will be significantly better and there will be a much bigger sample size to look at as well. Are the domestic routes May numbers or a further out month?


Domestic is for August


Do you know why there is such a lag with airports releasing international numbers?


Int'l carriers sometimes take longer to report the numbers, which delays things a bit.

zackary747 wrote:
I absolutely agree about the flight times. I'd like to see DL run it as a red eye like they do with LAX. Looking at the June/July numbers both DL and AS were cranking low to mid 90%s. Do you think it is possible that AS could add a second SEA flight (summer only) come 2019/2020?


Maybe, I'd expect DL to move to a redeye and upuage first, before AS adding a second flight
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:02 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


Anything behind that 'box'?


Flew into IND this morning and asked around, and apparently they are doing construction in the boxes, who knew?

---------------------
Not many changes this morning:
DL:
IND-RDU gets the CR9 back on the evening flight, and improved connection times onto the CDG flight
IND-ATL 3x757 extended through May
IND-DTW appears to get the B739 from April-October
Honestly, still surprised DL hasn't either cut IND-RSW/MIA or expanded that service
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GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:14 am

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


Anything behind that 'box'?


Flew into IND this morning and asked around, and apparently they are doing construction in the boxes, who knew?

---------------------
Not many changes this morning:
DL:
IND-RDU gets the CR9 back on the evening flight, and improved connection times onto the CDG flight
IND-ATL 3x757 extended through May
IND-DTW appears to get the B739 from April-October
Honestly, still surprised DL hasn't either cut IND-RSW/MIA or expanded that service


Has anyone else noticed the new carpeting/seat layouts on the end of A and B? Looks sharp. They also added power outlets to the long tables in Civic Plaza.

p.s.: if you want a good laugh, check out the terminal map in the middle of Civic Plaza.
IND. 2018: BOS/AUA/MIA/DEN Next: LAS/SLC/DEN
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:09 pm

DTW-IND service became as relevant as Lansing or Columbus service as of last night. 4x daily CR7 for now on? :duck:
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:07 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DTW-IND service became as relevant as Lansing or Columbus service as of last night. 4x daily CR7 for now on? :duck:


What are you referring to?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:23 pm

The Amount of 50 seaters UA is sending through IND is quite amusing:
For March:
6xCR2-ORD
3xE145-EWR
2xE145/1xCR2-IAH
2xCR2/1xE145-IAD
They have two mainline flights and they are the IND-SFO turns

Compare that to AA and DL
For AA March:
4xE145-ORD
1xE140-LGA
1xE140-JFK
1xCR2-DCA
2xE145-MIA
However, AA runs 14 mainline flights

For March DL:
2xRDU
However, DL runs 19 mainline flights
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Fargo
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
The Amount of 50 seaters UA is sending through IND is quite amusing:
For March:
6xCR2-ORD
3xE145-EWR
2xE145/1xCR2-IAH
2xCR2/1xE145-IAD
They have two mainline flights and they are the IND-SFO turns

Compare that to AA and DL
For AA March:
4xE145-ORD
1xE140-LGA
1xE140-JFK
1xCR2-DCA
2xE145-MIA
However, AA runs 14 mainline flights

For March DL:
2xRDU
However, DL runs 19 mainline flights


Things like this make me wonder whether UA is completely oblivious to the rest of the industry or they simply don’t care. Between the number of 50 seaters they have and their small footprint outside of their hubs, UA is squandering their place in the US market share. Even freaking WN carries more pax then they do now.

I mean, how can it be that your largest hub in ORD has just over 40% mainline when your competitors have 80% and 60% at their largest hubs (DL in ATL and AA in DFW respectively)?

UA needs to do some serious upgauging and building up of their hubs ASAP (what they are doing isn’t going nearly far enough IMO).
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:51 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
The Amount of 50 seaters UA is sending through IND is quite amusing:
For March:
6xCR2-ORD
3xE145-EWR
2xE145/1xCR2-IAH
2xCR2/1xE145-IAD
They have two mainline flights and they are the IND-SFO turns

Compare that to AA and DL
For AA March:
4xE145-ORD
1xE140-LGA
1xE140-JFK
1xCR2-DCA
2xE145-MIA
However, AA runs 14 mainline flights

For March DL:
2xRDU
However, DL runs 19 mainline flights

Hopefully just an interim placeholder schedule?
DEN has been cut for next year compared to this while IAH is also dramatically down and mainline off IAD/EWR

Seems UA is giving up on IND?
UA DL LH NW AA WN --- Next IND-DEN-RIW UA A319/CR2
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:03 pm

Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
The Amount of 50 seaters UA is sending through IND is quite amusing:
For March:
6xCR2-ORD
3xE145-EWR
2xE145/1xCR2-IAH
2xCR2/1xE145-IAD
They have two mainline flights and they are the IND-SFO turns

Compare that to AA and DL
For AA March:
4xE145-ORD
1xE140-LGA
1xE140-JFK
1xCR2-DCA
2xE145-MIA
However, AA runs 14 mainline flights

For March DL:
2xRDU
However, DL runs 19 mainline flights


Things like this make me wonder whether UA is completely oblivious to the rest of the industry or they simply don’t care. Between the number of 50 seaters they have and their small footprint outside of their hubs, UA is squandering their place in the US market share. Even freaking WN carries more pax then they do now.

I mean, how can it be that your largest hub in ORD has just over 40% mainline when your competitors have 80% and 60% at their largest hubs (DL in ATL and AA in DFW respectively)?

UA needs to do some serious upgauging and building up of their hubs ASAP (what they are doing isn’t going nearly far enough IMO).


Unfortunately they don't have much of a choice, they have a shocking amount of 50 seaters in their fleet (more than 300 already with 50 more on the way).

Delta got luckily in merging with NWA, given their strong position in many non-hub markets. CO didn't have the same strengths outside of their hubs.

The only non-hub market that UA is very strong in is CLE, on the contrary DL is strong in MCO, RDU, CVG, LAS, IND, and many more markets and AA is strong in BOS, BNA, STL, PIT, and other markets as well.

UA should have focussed on building strength outside of their hubs, as many of their hubs are in hyper competitive markets (LAX, NYC, ORD, e.t.c), it might be too late to build share outside of their hubs.

SumChristianus wrote:
Hopefully just an interim placeholder schedule?
DEN has been cut for next year compared to this while IAH is also dramatically down and mainline off IAD/EWR

Seems UA is giving up on IND?


Probably not too much will change.

Last March IND-DEN was 1xCR7, 1xE170, 1xE175; this March is 2xE170, 1xCR7 so not a big difference.
IND-IAH was 1xE145, 1xE175, 2xE170; this March is 2xE145, 1xCR2, 1xE175, so a sizable drop in capacity
Although mainline on IAD/EWR was for the summer and early fall, and it wasn't scheduled year-round

I wouldn't say UA has given up on IND, considering UA hasn't ever shown too much interest in IND. As long as AA/WN remain strong on the IND-ORD and IND-DEN route it will be tough for UA to grow.
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Fargo
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
The Amount of 50 seaters UA is sending through IND is quite amusing:
For March:
6xCR2-ORD
3xE145-EWR
2xE145/1xCR2-IAH
2xCR2/1xE145-IAD
They have two mainline flights and they are the IND-SFO turns

Compare that to AA and DL
For AA March:
4xE145-ORD
1xE140-LGA
1xE140-JFK
1xCR2-DCA
2xE145-MIA
However, AA runs 14 mainline flights

For March DL:
2xRDU
However, DL runs 19 mainline flights


Things like this make me wonder whether UA is completely oblivious to the rest of the industry or they simply don’t care. Between the number of 50 seaters they have and their small footprint outside of their hubs, UA is squandering their place in the US market share. Even freaking WN carries more pax then they do now.

I mean, how can it be that your largest hub in ORD has just over 40% mainline when your competitors have 80% and 60% at their largest hubs (DL in ATL and AA in DFW respectively)?

UA needs to do some serious upgauging and building up of their hubs ASAP (what they are doing isn’t going nearly far enough IMO).


Unfortunately they don't have much of a choice, they have a shocking amount of 50 seaters in their fleet (more than 300 already with 50 more on the way).

Delta got luckily in merging with NWA, given their strong position in many non-hub markets. CO didn't have the same strengths outside of their hubs.

The only non-hub market that UA is very strong in is CLE, on the contrary DL is strong in MCO, RDU, CVG, LAS, IND, and many more markets and AA is strong in BOS, BNA, STL, PIT, and other markets as well.

UA should have focussed on building strength outside of their hubs, as many of their hubs are in hyper competitive markets (LAX, NYC, ORD, e.t.c), it might be too late to build share outside of their hubs.


The problem is UA's largest hubs are pretty weak compared to DL/AA. Part of that is due to, as you said, the competitive market in their hubs, and the fact that UA doesn't have a megahub like ATL or DFW. ORD would be that, but the continued AA hub presence is preventing that.

Growing by 4-6% in your mid-continent hubs isn't going to get you super far unless it includes upgauging as well. There is no reason large business markets like ORD and IAH should be under 50% mainline. Both should be around 60-70%. I have to wonder why UA is so resistant to getting a 100 seat aircraft like the A220 or the E2. Do they not realize they could gain a significant upper hand on AA at ORD if they introduced a 100 seat aircraft into the market?

And yes, UA should definitely have focused more on building strength outside their hubs as well. The fact that they are well behind DL and AA at most mid-sized airports is not a good thing. Right now, it is not convenient or preferable to fly UA unless you live in one of their hub markets. I still think they are going to have to bite the bullet (once they are in a better financial situation) and do a SEA-style buildup of a hub in the SE, in a market such as BNA or RDU, even if it means taking a bath yield wise for a while (which they would probably inevitably do).

UA sure has dug themselves into a hole, and they are going to need to be a lot more aggressive and innovative if they want to get out of it. If they don't, they could fade into obscurity and possibly end up out of business or being bought out by a competitor.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW-IND service became as relevant as Lansing or Columbus service as of last night. 4x daily CR7 for now on? :duck:


What are you referring to?


Looks like someone looked at the holiday schedule for Thanksgiving day and the day after....there are a few other random days out there with similar service but they are Saturdays or holidays. Nothing that puts IND on par with Lansing....
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:21 pm

United was never that big in Indianapolis.
Continental was never that big in Indianapolis.

A combined United and Continental continues to just not be that big in Indianapolis.

There are other cities where they do quite well. They are not in danger of going out of business because they aren't that big in Indianapolis.

It is what it is.

So be it.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:16 am

stlgph wrote:
United was never that big in Indianapolis.
Continental was never that big in Indianapolis.

A combined United and Continental continues to just not be that big in Indianapolis.

There are other cities where they do quite well. They are not in danger of going out of business because they aren't that big in Indianapolis.

It is what it is.

So be it.


No one ever said UA/CO were big in IND, but why does that mean there can't be discussions about UA and IND on this thread?

They are a profitable airline, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement...
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:48 am

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW-IND service became as relevant as Lansing or Columbus service as of last night. 4x daily CR7 for now on? :duck:


What are you referring to?


Looks like someone looked at the holiday schedule for Thanksgiving day and the day after....there are a few other random days out there with similar service but they are Saturdays or holidays. Nothing that puts IND on par with Lansing....
College football joke.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:08 am

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
United was never that big in Indianapolis.
Continental was never that big in Indianapolis.

A combined United and Continental continues to just not be that big in Indianapolis.

There are other cities where they do quite well. They are not in danger of going out of business because they aren't that big in Indianapolis.

It is what it is.

So be it.


No one ever said UA/CO were big in IND, but why does that mean there can't be discussions about UA and IND on this thread?

They are a profitable airline, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement...


What on earth?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 am

flymco753 wrote:
kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What are you referring to?


Looks like someone looked at the holiday schedule for Thanksgiving day and the day after....there are a few other random days out there with similar service but they are Saturdays or holidays. Nothing that puts IND on par with Lansing....
College football joke.


:D I'm a Boilermaker fan, so I enjoyed the game up in Ann Arbor on Saturday. Can't wait to see OSU lose next week though....
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:50 am

Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
kindeham wrote:

Looks like someone looked at the holiday schedule for Thanksgiving day and the day after....there are a few other random days out there with similar service but they are Saturdays or holidays. Nothing that puts IND on par with Lansing....
College football joke.


:D I'm a Boilermaker fan, so I enjoyed the game up in Ann Arbor on Saturday. Can't wait to see OSU lose next week though....
It was a dirty game but in the end, can't hold it over IND's head. In network planning, still have to be fair and yes, that includes Columbus. :lol: I cant get over the beef between SDF and BNA, IND and STL, DTW and ORD, CLT and ATL.
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