SgtBarone
Posts: 234
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Any idea what this is? I'm trying to get my bearings and can't figure out what this is replacing or if it's new:

https://twitter.com/goingplacesCLE/stat ... 5658415104
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
swacle
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:53 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Any idea what this is? I'm trying to get my bearings and can't figure out what this is replacing or if it's new:

https://twitter.com/goingplacesCLE/stat ... 5658415104


No idea what it is going to be, but that is the empty space once occupied by Kay Jewlers just past Central/B Security checkpoint. Based on the size/shape there is a good chance it is some sort of grab n go food stop, though.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:13 am

Had a question about sports charters. Looking at flightaware, I noticed

DAL8889 B752 Dep Cleveland-Hopkins Intl (CLE) SUN 02:10p EDT Arrive BKL 02:13p EDT and
DAL8889 B752 Dep Cleveland BKL SUN 06:05p EDT Arrive LaGuardia (LGA) 07:02p EDT

I assume this is for the Yankees playing the Indians. Has the plane been sitting in Cleveland since Thursday (the first game of the current series)? Or is it off doing other things in the meantime? Finally, unless it was carrying a charter load other than the Yankees to Hopkins, why would the plane be coming from Hopkins? Why wouldn't it fly into Burke and stay there instead of parking at Hopkins?
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:53 pm

^If I wanted to get a photo of the 757 landing at BKL, where's a good place to get it? (Opshots's spotter map for BKL doesn't seem to be up.)
 
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mbm3
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:40 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^If I wanted to get a photo of the 757 landing at BKL, where's a good place to get it? (Opshots's spotter map for BKL doesn't seem to be up.)


I would imagine Delta is rotating a 752 over to BKL from scheduled service to CLE to use for this charter.

As someone who used to work the Cleveland Grand Prix, if CLE is landing on the 24s (BKL usually mimics with 24R) you might be challenged to get all that close. Maybe along the fence line towards Aviation High School is best unless you are blessed with long lens..

If landing from the opposite direction on 6L, then get down to Voinovich Bicentennial Park at the north end of East 9th Street.

https://www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL

https://goo.gl/maps/wdG6DkgToZS2
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
csizmpl
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:19 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Had a question about sports charters. Looking at flightaware, I noticed

DAL8889 B752 Dep Cleveland-Hopkins Intl (CLE) SUN 02:10p EDT Arrive BKL 02:13p EDT and
DAL8889 B752 Dep Cleveland BKL SUN 06:05p EDT Arrive LaGuardia (LGA) 07:02p EDT

I assume this is for the Yankees playing the Indians. Has the plane been sitting in Cleveland since Thursday (the first game of the current series)? Or is it off doing other things in the meantime? Finally, unless it was carrying a charter load other than the Yankees to Hopkins, why would the plane be coming from Hopkins? Why wouldn't it fly into Burke and stay there instead of parking at Hopkins?


Aircraft N663DN Delta 752 appears to have been sitting at CLE since it's arrival at 1:14am Thursday morning as DAL/DL #8889. It's one of about a dozen 757's that Delta has configured with special business class/vip seating that they use for sports and special charters. Flight #DAL/DL 8889 is assigned to NY Yankees charter flights. Since the aircraft is configured with special seating I would not expect it to do traditional passenger revenue flights between team charters, but I wouldn't rule out doing other team charters if the schedule allows during a team's series. Most likely went to CLE instead of BKL due to hour of arrival and proximity to hotel or possibly multiple day ramp space availability at BKL
 
csizmpl
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:24 pm

mbm3 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^If I wanted to get a photo of the 757 landing at BKL, where's a good place to get it? (Opshots's spotter map for BKL doesn't seem to be up.)


I would imagine Delta is rotating a 752 over to BKL from scheduled service to CLE to use for this charter.

As someone who used to work the Cleveland Grand Prix, if CLE is landing on the 24s (BKL usually mimics with 24R) you might be challenged to get all that close. Maybe along the fence line towards Aviation High School is best unless you are blessed with long lens..

If landing from the opposite direction on 6L, then get down to Voinovich Bicentennial Park at the north end of East 9th Street.

https://www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL

https://goo.gl/maps/wdG6DkgToZS2

Unfortunately Delta does not fly scheduled 757 service into or out of CLE. Only special charters and sports charters.
 
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mbm3
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:54 pm

csizmpl wrote:
mbm3 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^If I wanted to get a photo of the 757 landing at BKL, where's a good place to get it? (Opshots's spotter map for BKL doesn't seem to be up.)


I would imagine Delta is rotating a 752 over to BKL from scheduled service to CLE to use for this charter.

As someone who used to work the Cleveland Grand Prix, if CLE is landing on the 24s (BKL usually mimics with 24R) you might be challenged to get all that close. Maybe along the fence line towards Aviation High School is best unless you are blessed with long lens..

If landing from the opposite direction on 6L, then get down to Voinovich Bicentennial Park at the north end of East 9th Street.

https://www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL

https://goo.gl/maps/wdG6DkgToZS2

Unfortunately Delta does not fly scheduled 757 service into or out of CLE. Only special charters and sports charters.


I have flown on "one off" aircraft swaps that took the place of the typical scheduled aircraft. I am not saying that is the case here, but other airlines like Air Canada have no issue parking their aircraft at BKL for the weekend if required. Let me go check.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
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mbm3
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:03 pm

It looks like N663DN flew in to KCLE from BWI on Thursday and did spend the weekend at CLE before the long ferry flight from CLE to BKL this afternoon, where they will pick up the Yankees and flight them to LGA.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n663dn
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
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mbm3
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:07 pm

csizmpl wrote:
Most likely went to CLE instead of BKL due to hour of arrival and proximity to hotel or possibly multiple day ramp space availability at BKL



Good point about the ramp space. That's like a 747 at the FBO!
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:26 pm

now We know. It’s lobbyists for charters of major league athletes that keep Burke open. I bike by that airport all the time during the summer and I think the only time I’ve seen any action whatsoever was when I purposely timed it to see AF One a month or two ago.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:02 am

mbm3 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^If I wanted to get a photo of the 757 landing at BKL, where's a good place to get it? (Opshots's spotter map for BKL doesn't seem to be up.)


I would imagine Delta is rotating a 752 over to BKL from scheduled service to CLE to use for this charter.

As someone who used to work the Cleveland Grand Prix, if CLE is landing on the 24s (BKL usually mimics with 24R) you might be challenged to get all that close. Maybe along the fence line towards Aviation High School is best unless you are blessed with long lens..

If landing from the opposite direction on 6L, then get down to Voinovich Bicentennial Park at the north end of East 9th Street.

https://www.airnav.com/airport/KBKL

https://goo.gl/maps/wdG6DkgToZS2


Thanks mbm3--very helpful. Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it downtown in time, but will keep this info for future reference.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:10 pm

United just announced service increases for CLE. Year-round, 2x daily service to LAX and SFO beginning in September, a sixth daily flight to IAH starting in October, and a second Saturday flight to MCO beginning in November. Seasonal service to RSW and FLL also returning in December. Great adds for CLE!

http://www.clevelandairport.com/united- ... do-and-san
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
tphuang
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:39 pm

For all those people that are wondering why AA/UA don't build new focus city, CLE seems like a great place for UA to rebuild something.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:53 pm

^I certainly agree....... Regarding the "new" services, I can't believe UA was down to 1x daily for CLE-LAX for such a huge O&D market----that used to be 4x/day!
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Maybe just maybe 2019 will be the first year that UA adds seats to CLE since the hub closure. They’ve done nothing but subtract until now.

Though not announced, and not a ton of seats— it looks like SJU and CUN weekend service are no longer on UA.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:35 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Maybe just maybe 2019 will be the first year that UA adds seats to CLE since the hub closure. They’ve done nothing but subtract until now.

Though not announced, and not a ton of seats— it looks like SJU and CUN weekend service are no longer on UA.


CUN weekend service still showing for most of the year (I think September and December are just about the only times where it goes away).

As for SJU, it doesn't look like will be returning as of now (highlighted in a recent OAG thread). Would be a good opportunity for JetBlue or even Allegiant to jump on seasonal Saturday service.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
LifetimeGS
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:47 pm

Odd they are taking Christmas and New Years off but they are.
 
LifetimeGS
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:48 pm

Odd they are taking Christmas and New Years off but they are.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:52 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Maybe just maybe 2019 will be the first year that UA adds seats to CLE since the hub closure. They’ve done nothing but subtract until now.

Though not announced, and not a ton of seats— it looks like SJU and CUN weekend service are no longer on UA.


CUN weekend service still showing for most of the year (I think September and December are just about the only times where it goes away).

As for SJU, it doesn't look like will be returning as of now (highlighted in a recent OAG thread). Would be a good opportunity for JetBlue or even Allegiant to jump on seasonal Saturday service.


CLE had SJU for at least 20 yrs and there's a very large Puerto Rican population in Cleveland with a lot of family still on the island. I heard traffic is down because of Maria, but that was a while ago now, and I've talked to people have been back since (though flew B6, I think). Will UA bring back this route if it really is because of Maria? If not, I second the idea for JetBlue to serve it. Maybe with an add to JFK giving NY'ers an alternative if JFK-SJU is sold out while also getting some of the CLE-NYC market.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:15 pm

In a post on another board, a poster of Puerto Rican heritage said an estimated 5,000 Maria refugees moved to Lorain County. It does seem like the wrong time to end service. B6 wants the market and was quicker than other airlines to return service after the storm. CLE-sJU would be a great weekend add for that growing ethnic market.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:22 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
United just announced service increases for CLE. Year-round, 2x daily service to LAX and SFO beginning in September, a sixth daily flight to IAH starting in October, and a second Saturday flight to MCO beginning in November. Seasonal service to RSW and FLL also returning in December. Great adds for CLE!

http://www.clevelandairport.com/united- ... do-and-san


A couple of noticeable routes missing in my mind: Xmas/NYE CLE>SAN was always a hit + PHX and LAS still not in the adds. Either way, good to see some more non-LCC/ULCC flights at CLE that are reliable.

I'm assuming the SFO is to hit both banks of the TPAC set of flights. LAX same for Hawaii + SYD/MEL. Just like it used to be.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:09 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^I certainly agree....... Regarding the "new" services, I can't believe UA was down to 1x daily for CLE-LAX for such a huge O&D market----that used to be 4x/day!


I don't think it ever was down to only one flight. They are simply continuing the twice daily service that's been around for a while. As noted elsewhere, it's still down from the three to four flights UA used to operate on the route. There's also Spirit's nonstop, so total nonstop flights in the market are still 3.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:57 am

Looks like LH494 (MUC-YYZ) diverted to CLE this evening.

https://www.facebook.com/CLEairport/pho ... =3&theater
 
chrisjake
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:43 am

 
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jetpixx
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:53 am

So nice seeing those Lufty colors at KCLE!
ABE, BIL, BOS, BUF, BWI, CAE, CAK, CHS, CLE, CLT, CVG, DAY, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, GSO, IAD, IAH, IND, ISP, JAX, JFK, LAS, LGA, M57, MDW, MEM, MHT, MIA, MKE, MLB, MSO, MSP, OMA, ORD, PBI, PHL, PIT, PVD, RDU, SEA, SFO, SLC, SJU, STL, SYR, TLH, TMB, TUL, YVR
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 am

jetpixx wrote:
So nice seeing those Lufty colors at KCLE!


Perhaps a test run for next year! It's been quite a good period for CLE with spotting w/b.
 
swacle
Posts: 492
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:21 am

[url][/url]
SgtBarone wrote:
United just announced service increases for CLE. Year-round, 2x daily service to LAX and SFO beginning in September, a sixth daily flight to IAH starting in October, and a second Saturday flight to MCO beginning in November. Seasonal service to RSW and FLL also returning in December. Great adds for CLE!

http://www.clevelandairport.com/united- ... do-and-san


As mentioned CUN and SJU are gone and according to this weeks OAG thread IAH goes back to 5 in December and an ORD frequency is lost. So not quite as good of an announcement as it seems unfortunately.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 234
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:39 pm

swacle wrote:
[url][/url]
SgtBarone wrote:
United just announced service increases for CLE. Year-round, 2x daily service to LAX and SFO beginning in September, a sixth daily flight to IAH starting in October, and a second Saturday flight to MCO beginning in November. Seasonal service to RSW and FLL also returning in December. Great adds for CLE!

http://www.clevelandairport.com/united- ... do-and-san


As mentioned CUN and SJU are gone and according to this weeks OAG thread IAH goes back to 5 in December and an ORD frequency is lost. So not quite as good of an announcement as it seems unfortunately.


To clarify, CUN isn't gone, it is just not operating in December this year.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:50 pm

Too bad that 4th DEN departure added this summer doesn't stick year round. I know loads don't equal profits but anecdotally UA loads to DEN are very high no matter what the capacity is.

I sure hope that next summer, a seasonal add for UA, in lieu of the now year round California flights, will be SEA. The F9 service has been dwindling.

It looks like the CUN service resumes on 1/12 on UA. Saturday only. Guess it's more lucrative over Christmas to use that aircraft for holiday volumes elsewhere.
 
jplatts
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:02 pm

Will WN ever add CLE-DAL nonstop service? DFW is one of the top destinations from CLE, but most of the passengers who are flying to DFW are choosing to do so on AA over WN or UA due to AA having nonstop service to DFW. CLE can support nonstop service to DAL on WN since UA no longer serves DFW nonstop from CLE, since demand for WN service has been increasing at CLE, since AA doesn't have a hub or focus city on the CLE end, since DAL is located in WN's home market, and since AA is currently the only airline to have year-round nonstop service to DFW from CLE. WN can stimulate additional demand for CLE-DAL on both the CLE and DAL ends if WN added CLE-DAL nonstop service.
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
Will WN ever add CLE-DAL nonstop service? DFW is one of the top destinations from CLE, but most of the passengers who are flying to DFW are choosing to do so on AA over WN or UA due to AA having nonstop service to DFW. CLE can support nonstop service to DAL on WN since UA no longer serves DFW nonstop from CLE, since demand for WN service has been increasing at CLE, since AA doesn't have a hub or focus city on the CLE end, since DAL is located in WN's home market, and since AA is currently the only airline to have year-round nonstop service to DFW from CLE. WN can stimulate additional demand for CLE-DAL on both the CLE and DAL ends if WN added CLE-DAL nonstop service.


This has been floated several times, but I don't think it's enough of a priority market for them since gate space is such a premium there. I think we're more likely to see CLE-HOU nonstop service first. WN does a better job of eating into UA's CLE customer base than the other legacy airlines it seems.
 
jplatts
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:41 pm

plinth857 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Will WN ever add CLE-DAL nonstop service? DFW is one of the top destinations from CLE, but most of the passengers who are flying to DFW are choosing to do so on AA over WN or UA due to AA having nonstop service to DFW. CLE can support nonstop service to DAL on WN since UA no longer serves DFW nonstop from CLE, since demand for WN service has been increasing at CLE, since AA doesn't have a hub or focus city on the CLE end, since DAL is located in WN's home market, and since AA is currently the only airline to have year-round nonstop service to DFW from CLE. WN can stimulate additional demand for CLE-DAL on both the CLE and DAL ends if WN added CLE-DAL nonstop service.


This has been floated several times, but I don't think it's enough of a priority market for them since gate space is such a premium there. I think we're more likely to see CLE-HOU nonstop service first. WN does a better job of eating into UA's CLE customer base than the other legacy airlines it seems.


10 years ago, I was actually expecting more competition on CLE-DFW/DAL subsequent to the repeal of the Wright Amendment on October 23, 2014 than is the case today, with AA and CO both serving DFW nonstop from CLE and with WN serving DAL nonstop from CLE. However, UA merged with CO, WN merged with FL, WN entered additional markets prior to the repeal of the Wright Amendment, and WN added nonstop service from DAL to markets that weren't served by WN 10 years ago. While there is less competition on CLE-DFW/DAL today than was expected 10 years ago, there is seasonal daily nonstop service to DFW from CLE on NK (an ULCC) in addition to AA.
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
10 years ago, I was actually expecting more competition on CLE-DFW/DAL subsequent to the repeal of the Wright Amendment on October 23, 2014 than is the case today, with AA and CO both serving DFW nonstop from CLE and with WN serving DAL nonstop from CLE. However, UA merged with CO, WN merged with FL, WN entered additional markets prior to the repeal of the Wright Amendment, and WN added nonstop service from DAL to markets that weren't served by WN 10 years ago. While there is less competition on CLE-DFW/DAL today than was expected 10 years ago, there is seasonal daily nonstop service to DFW from CLE on NK (an ULCC) in addition to AA.


I do always hope for more competition on that route... it has been a monthly route for me for the past 5 years. When I first started, UA was the cheapest at the time, averaging about $350-400 per round trip. AA was $500+! Frontier tried it for a few months, but couldn't make a go of it (one of the times I flew them on that route, my return flight was delayed 6 hours!). That distance is a little long for me to fly Spirit (cause I'm spoiled). Southwest one month had a $99 roundtrip connecting through BNA on the way down and MDW on the way back, but they haven't had any deals like that on that city pair for quite some time.

Either way, I enjoy the speculation... that's the one route I monitor above all others!
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:50 pm

CLE has received quite a few weather diversions today of flights heading to EWR, including ones from SNA, PTY, PUJ, and a 752 from SFO.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:18 pm

I'm posting this as a bit of a long shot-- but what the heck. I'm looking for responses.

I've said repeatedly on my posts that I'm disappointed that the business leaders of NE Ohio don't apply any pressure on the airport and the city/Mayor to replace the current 1950s era facility, with all the many flaws which have been discussed here ad nauseam.

I get that it's expensive, and maybe even unaffordable, but so is so much of the other public construction spending that gets done in the region. Other projects got done because leaders dreamed about them and got them on the agenda.

I am just a dude who lives in the Cleveland area who loves travel, airlines, and airports, I am not an industry or political insider, I have a modestly useful rolodex. It pains me to see CLE airport as compared to beautiful airports such as IND, DTW, CVG, RDU, etc. It pains me to see our sister city/rival PIT replacing a terminal that is only 25 years old, yet our region seems accepting of the status quo.

I am interested in forming a citizen's action committee to get a terminal replacement more on the region's agenda. I know all of you reading this are obviously very interested in CLE airport, I know many (not all) of you share my many concerns about the numerous shortcomings of the facility, I am gaging interest to see if any of you who live in NEO would be interested in participating in such a committee.

If you are interested, please indicate on the forum. If there is enough interest, which to me is 2 other people, I'll come up with a convenient time and place (probably Rockside Road corridor in Independence), I don't want anyone to post their phone or email on this forum. Meeting one would be all about coming up with a mission, an agenda, and a few ideas to get the committee rolling. I don't want it to be a whining session, enough is said about FIS, or the parking situation, or the ground transportation center-- I'd rather get to work in driving change.
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 250
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:01 pm

ncflyer wrote:
I'm posting this as a bit of a long shot-- but what the heck. I'm looking for responses.

I've said repeatedly on my posts that I'm disappointed that the business leaders of NE Ohio don't apply any pressure on the airport and the city/Mayor to replace the current 1950s era facility, with all the many flaws which have been discussed here ad nauseam.

I get that it's expensive, and maybe even unaffordable, but so is so much of the other public construction spending that gets done in the region. Other projects got done because leaders dreamed about them and got them on the agenda.

I am just a dude who lives in the Cleveland area who loves travel, airlines, and airports, I am not an industry or political insider, I have a modestly useful rolodex. It pains me to see CLE airport as compared to beautiful airports such as IND, DTW, CVG, RDU, etc. It pains me to see our sister city/rival PIT replacing a terminal that is only 25 years old, yet our region seems accepting of the status quo.

I am interested in forming a citizen's action committee to get a terminal replacement more on the region's agenda. I know all of you reading this are obviously very interested in CLE airport, I know many (not all) of you share my many concerns about the numerous shortcomings of the facility, I am gaging interest to see if any of you who live in NEO would be interested in participating in such a committee.

If you are interested, please indicate on the forum. If there is enough interest, which to me is 2 other people, I'll come up with a convenient time and place (probably Rockside Road corridor in Independence), I don't want anyone to post their phone or email on this forum. Meeting one would be all about coming up with a mission, an agenda, and a few ideas to get the committee rolling. I don't want it to be a whining session, enough is said about FIS, or the parking situation, or the ground transportation center-- I'd rather get to work in driving change.


I think it's a rather intriguing, if ambitious, idea. Let me know if this moves forward.
 
pontiac51
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:38 pm

ncflyer wrote:
I'm posting this as a bit of a long shot-- but what the heck. I'm looking for responses.

I've said repeatedly on my posts that I'm disappointed that the business leaders of NE Ohio don't apply any pressure on the airport and the city/Mayor to replace the current 1950s era facility, with all the many flaws which have been discussed here ad nauseam.

I get that it's expensive, and maybe even unaffordable, but so is so much of the other public construction spending that gets done in the region. Other projects got done because leaders dreamed about them and got them on the agenda.

I am just a dude who lives in the Cleveland area who loves travel, airlines, and airports, I am not an industry or political insider, I have a modestly useful rolodex. It pains me to see CLE airport as compared to beautiful airports such as IND, DTW, CVG, RDU, etc. It pains me to see our sister city/rival PIT replacing a terminal that is only 25 years old, yet our region seems accepting of the status quo.

I am interested in forming a citizen's action committee to get a terminal replacement more on the region's agenda. I know all of you reading this are obviously very interested in CLE airport, I know many (not all) of you share my many concerns about the numerous shortcomings of the facility, I am gaging interest to see if any of you who live in NEO would be interested in participating in such a committee.

If you are interested, please indicate on the forum. If there is enough interest, which to me is 2 other people, I'll come up with a convenient time and place (probably Rockside Road corridor in Independence), I don't want anyone to post their phone or email on this forum. Meeting one would be all about coming up with a mission, an agenda, and a few ideas to get the committee rolling. I don't want it to be a whining session, enough is said about FIS, or the parking situation, or the ground transportation center-- I'd rather get to work in driving change.

You are just wasting your time. There will be no new airport/terminal replacement until the current one reaches capacity. And with Concourse D not even being used, Hopkins is nowhere near capacity. Why should the city spend upwards of a billion dollars on an airport that is not needed now, or anytime in the near future? Just to make people like you happy? Remember, this isn’t Sim City!! And as far as how nice other airports are, who cares!! The city should stay on its current course of improving the terminal when necessary. And if/when the time comes for a new terminal (when capacity is reached), the city will no doubt have a master plan in place.
 
VetteDude
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:13 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:37 pm

I like hearing the two extremes on this issue. I'll take the middle ground.

To NCflyers point, I think the airport is in better shape than he gives it credit for. Sure, it's not as airy and doesn't have as much natural light as contemporary airports, but it does its job. It's not a world class hub airport, but that will never be our position. There isn't much evidence that the building is becoming a maintenance behemoth (like the old MSY terminal), so I think we have a decent strategy - pay down the debt and look for inexpensive ways to spruce things up. We aren't challenged for gates, and D can be reopened if the need arises. Sure, the design isn't ideal, but it's ok. The biggest issue I have with the airport is more of an issue with either staffing or the morale of workers - the bathrooms are always disgusting. I know they are small, but they can be cleaned and restocked much more often, and I feel like that would be such an easy fix if someone would have some pride in their work.

To the other side of the point that pontiac51 stated, I think CLE has proven that we always need to be a little pessimistic. This city and airport commission have made some big blunders, and things don't just fall into our laps. Management needs to be a little proactive here.

I think one of the biggest issues with the structure of how the airport is run is that the City runs it. It really should be run by a regional authority. The fact is, the people with money who use the airport generally do not live in the city proper. Cleveland has many sprawling, affluent suburbs, and many of those residents commute into downtown to work but choose to live in the nicer suburbs. Of course, those people pay municipal income tax into the city, but that's another thing I could go on about complaining. However, those people don't have a say in the airport. The leadership in Cleveland has sole authority over CLE, and the constituents of many of those leaders, especially in the poorer districts, couldn't care less about the airport. Then add to that our stale leadership in general, especially among business in the city, and we have a perfect storm of mediocrity. Nobody in NEO thinks outside the box. I could go on for days about how badly we waste our prime lake front and riverfront space (and I'm not even talking about BKL, which I really don't have much against)
 
pontiac51
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:01 am

ncflyer wrote:
I'm posting this as a bit of a long shot-- but what the heck. I'm looking for responses.

I've said repeatedly on my posts that I'm disappointed that the business leaders of NE Ohio don't apply any pressure on the airport and the city/Mayor to replace the current 1950s era facility, with all the many flaws which have been discussed here ad nauseam.

I get that it's expensive, and maybe even unaffordable, but so is so much of the other public construction spending that gets done in the region. Other projects got done because leaders dreamed about them and got them on the agenda.

I am just a dude who lives in the Cleveland area who loves travel, airlines, and airports, I am not an industry or political insider, I have a modestly useful rolodex. It pains me to see CLE airport as compared to beautiful airports such as IND, DTW, CVG, RDU, etc. It pains me to see our sister city/rival PIT replacing a terminal that is only 25 years old, yet our region seems accepting of the status quo.

I am interested in forming a citizen's action committee to get a terminal replacement more on the region's agenda. I know all of you reading this are obviously very interested in CLE airport, I know many (not all) of you share my many concerns about the numerous shortcomings of the facility, I am gaging interest to see if any of you who live in NEO would be interested in participating in such a committee.

If you are interested, please indicate on the forum. If there is enough interest, which to me is 2 other people, I'll come up with a convenient time and place (probably Rockside Road corridor in Independence), I don't want anyone to post their phone or email on this forum. Meeting one would be all about coming up with a mission, an agenda, and a few ideas to get the committee rolling. I don't want it to be a whining session, enough is said about FIS, or the parking situation, or the ground transportation center-- I'd rather get to work in driving change.

You are just wasting your time. There will be no new airport/terminal replacement until the current one reaches capacity. And with Concourse D not even being used, Hopkins is nowhere near capacity. Why should the city spend upwards of a billion dollars on an airport that is not needed now, or anytime in the near future? Just to make people like you happy? Remember, this isn’t Sim City!! And as far as how nice other airports are, who cares!! The city should stay on its current course of improving the terminal when necessary. And if/when the time comes for a new terminal (when capacity is reached), the city will no doubt have a master plan in place.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5364
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:38 am

ncflyer wrote:
I am interested in forming a citizen's action committee to get a terminal replacement more on the region's agenda.


I'm not going to discourage you. Squeaky wheels do often get attention. I'll only say I think a couple of things need to happen first.

1) The population MUST start to grow again. This is possibly closer to happening than people think. We're seeing demographic changes already (tending to higher income, more education, and a younger mean age) and lately there has been real and substantial job growth (don't look for it in the Plain Dealer). So this one is fairly easy - the wheels are turning already. The 2020 Census will show a loss over 2010, but I'll bet you it will show a gain over today.

2) The city's (not just the region's) economy needs to improve. This is also happening, but not as fast as people would like. Just point out that it IS happening.

3) City Hall can't seem to be ignoring "the neighborhoods" in favor of the airport. Neighboerhood development also is happening with some projects aimed specifically at Glenville, Clark-Fulton, and Collinwood. Buckeye-Shaker and Slavic Village are next up when Opportunity Corridor gets going. This kind of criticism should abate when the results of current efforts are more obvious.

Random points to make: A new airport will be paid for by user fees - NOT by the city's budget. A new airport is NOT another sports arena give-away. A new airport is NOT city dollars benefiting the suburbs. No new taxes are required. A new airport WILL provide transit-accessible (the Red Line) jobs for city residents. No doubt you can think of more.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:48 am

masseybrown wrote:
Random points to make: A new airport will be paid for by user fees - NOT by the city's budget. A new airport is NOT another sports arena give-away. A new airport is NOT city dollars benefiting the suburbs. No new taxes are required. A new airport WILL provide transit-accessible (the Red Line) jobs for city residents. No doubt you can think of more.


If anyone ever got some traction on this whole subject, the no taxes it's not a stadium needs to be the mantra of every article and quote. Once that is in people's head, no one cares.

A true leader would take the plan directly to Trump who says he's committed to American infrastructure and ask for greater assistance to CLE funding than currently available.

If CLE wants to learn something, they can always look at CAK who was able to put on a nice expansion a decade ago. Even if the first step is to replace one of the fingers (A or B), it somewhat mirrors what CAK did and there are a good number of board members and advisors no longer associated with the CAK expansion floating around that could offer help.

With all that being said, I do believe that CLE will sit tight (perhaps they will do the FIS deal!!) until the master plan is done.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:54 pm

I'm reading lots of really interesting ideas, some disagreeing with me that a new terminal is needed (I respect this viewpoint but I wonder what PIT knows? Their current terminal is far better than CLE's in my opinion), some saying political or economic conditions aren't right, some saying the city governance over the airport really presents a challenge, some advocating great incremental ideas.

I skimmed MCI's master plan on-line, which is the basis for the amazing new terminal they are constructing (which as an aside is going to be capped off with a two story fountain in the atrium, what a perfect connection to something Kansas City is know for). It read to me like the consultants were told by civic and airport leaders "here's what you want to come up with." I could be wrong about that but it's how it seemed. Now is the time to actively guide the development of the master plan so it doesn't collect cobwebs like the last one.

Any takers in gathering to share your ideas? The thoughtful ideas shared prove the merits of debate and input even more. . . .
 
N766UA
Posts: 8223
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:09 pm

I will say this: almost every airport in the country seems to have a new terminal. The smallest airports like Rockland Maine; the regional airports like Saginaw, Wassau, Knoxville, Wichita, Charleston; the focus cities like Raleigh and Indianapolis and Austin and Pittsburgh. The majority, if not 100%, of the airports I go to every week are nicer and usually newer than Cleveland.

Just having a “servicable” airport terminal wasn’t okay for all these cities, so why is it okay for CLE?
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:51 pm

Frontier's service to DEN goes to year-round with the latest schedule extension. On the flipside, it looks like seasonal service to MIA will not return.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
User avatar
mbm3
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:54 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:54 pm

I would certainly participate in a group effort. As for newer terminals in other cities, remember PIT built the newer terminals for USAirways and they pulled out shortly after. I wish the Jackson Administration had the vision to build a business case to improve KCLE but I just don't see much beyond the superficial "polish" that we have seen since the RNC preparations. Getting the funding is just a huge hurdle.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5364
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:34 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Frontier's service to DEN goes to year-round with the latest schedule extension. On the flipside, it looks like seasonal service to MIA will not return.


San Diego seems to be lasting twice a week over the winter, too. I thought they'd kill that one at the end of summer.
 
User avatar
CLEguy
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:28 am

mbm3 wrote:
I would certainly participate in a group effort.


Me too!
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:56 am

Ok it’s official we have a quorum. Fantastic.

CLEguy, mbm3, and me.

I’m going to suggest a couple of times by the end of the weekend. It’ll be a little awkward to coordinate times over a forum but I don’t know how else to do it. Normally I’d gather ideas for an agenda ahead of time, but that is tough too. I’d say meeting one is about intros and what this group should be about.

Obviously any others are welcome regardless of viewpoint about what if anything needs to be done about the airport.
 
joeman
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:02 am

ncflyer wrote:
Ok it’s official we have a quorum. Fantastic.

CLEguy, mbm3, and me.

I’m going to suggest a couple of times by the end of the weekend. It’ll be a little awkward to coordinate times over a forum but I don’t know how else to do it. Normally I’d gather ideas for an agenda ahead of time, but that is tough too. I’d say meeting one is about intros and what this group should be about.

Obviously any others are welcome regardless of viewpoint about what if anything needs to be done about the airport.

I might be in, thanks!!!

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