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Midwestindy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:13 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
It's almost April and neither WW and FI have budged despite the a.net groupthink that it would be a bloodbath. Go figure.


They aren't going to cut frequency or capacity months before the first flight.....


If it were a bloodbath, they would.


Other than F9, I don't know of any other major carrier that cuts routes months before they have even started (unless there is a plane/pilot shortage).... That would be stupid, because they have no idea what demand would look like, considering a vast majority of bookings come in the month before a flight.
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:15 am

Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
It's almost April and neither WW and FI have budged despite the a.net groupthink that it would be a bloodbath. Go figure.


They aren't going to cut frequency or capacity months before the first flight.....


They would if it were a bloodbath. It's looking like it's not. WW and FI are not six months away from startup anymore.

Neither airline is a charity.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:23 am

stl07 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
When they added a frequency to CVG, the article about it said that STL was the only one of the 4 outselling CVG. Based on that, I would think the info from flymco is probably correct. That only leaves DTW and CLE and I think it is likely that DTW would be outselling CLE just based on supply/demand (DTW bigger market, CLE having 2 Iceland flights)


Care to source the article? And why would it make his original statement about CLE "correct"? Again, I loooove A.net! I want to believe! :D

It's almost April and neither WW and FI have budged despite the a.net groupthink that it would be a bloodbath. Go figure.

Google it, I read it too


Source it here. How hard is it?
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:25 am

Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

They aren't going to cut frequency or capacity months before the first flight.....


If it were a bloodbath, they would.


Other than F9, I don't know of any other major carrier that cuts routes months before they have even started (unless there is a plane/pilot shortage).... That would be stupid, because they have no idea what demand would look like, considering a vast majority of bookings come in the month before a flight.


Enrilia was calling CLE FI/WW a "bloodbath" on another thread this week. You seemed to be defending his point there and not bringing up this thought. Did he have any data? Well..no but it's a.net post so it must be true! :D

If it were a real bloodbath, they'd reduce frequency. Simple as that.
 
cvgComair
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:15 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

Care to source the article? And why would it make his original statement about CLE "correct"? Again, I loooove A.net! I want to believe! :D

It's almost April and neither WW and FI have budged despite the a.net groupthink that it would be a bloodbath. Go figure.

Google it, I read it too


Source it here. How hard is it?

CVG: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... r-cvg.html
STL: http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 579e2.html
Next: BGR-LGA (Delta CRJ-200), LGA-CVG (Delta CRJ-900)
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Jshank83
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:26 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
When they added a frequency to CVG, the article about it said that STL was the only one of the 4 outselling CVG. Based on that, I would think the info from flymco is probably correct. That only leaves DTW and CLE and I think it is likely that DTW would be outselling CLE just based on supply/demand (DTW bigger market, CLE having 2 Iceland flights)


Care to source the article? And why would it make his original statement about CLE "correct"? Again, I loooove A.net! I want to believe! :D

It's almost April and neither WW and FI have budged despite the a.net groupthink that it would be a bloodbath. Go figure.


Here you go. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/wow-a ... ons?page=2

"WOW said it would add service in three other Midwest cities when it announced service in Cincinnati in August, including St. Louis, Cleveland and Detroit. CVG to date has had the second-strongest ticket sales behind St. Louis, Spann said. WOW also added a fifth weekly flight in that market in January."

He said CLE had the lowest of the 4 and they aren't the top 2 based on this quote so that leaves 3rd or 4th. My next comment gave my reasoning why I could see DTW selling better than CLE. DTW is a bigger market with one airline to Iceland and CLE has 2 now to Iceland which will divide up the pie more. I personally think Iceland Air is better so I would expect that is cutting into WOWs numbers, which is why I find it believable that CLE is behind the other 3.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:48 am

Jshank83 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
When they added a frequency to CVG, the article about it said that STL was the only one of the 4 outselling CVG. Based on that, I would think the info from flymco is probably correct. That only leaves DTW and CLE and I think it is likely that DTW would be outselling CLE just based on supply/demand (DTW bigger market, CLE having 2 Iceland flights)


Care to source the article? And why would it make his original statement about CLE "correct"? Again, I loooove A.net! I want to believe! :D

It's almost April and neither WW and FI have budged despite the a.net groupthink that it would be a bloodbath. Go figure.


Here you go. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/wow-a ... ons?page=2

"WOW said it would add service in three other Midwest cities when it announced service in Cincinnati in August, including St. Louis, Cleveland and Detroit. CVG to date has had the second-strongest ticket sales behind St. Louis, Spann said. WOW also added a fifth weekly flight in that market in January."

He said CLE had the lowest of the 4 and they aren't the top 2 based on this quote so that leaves 3rd or 4th. My next comment gave my reasoning why I could see DTW selling better than CLE. DTW is a bigger market with one airline to Iceland and CLE has 2 now to Iceland which will divide up the pie more. I personally think Iceland Air is better so I would expect that is cutting into WOWs numbers, which is why I find it believable that CLE is behind the other 3.


Thank you! So we have a WOW rep listing STL and CVG as the top two markets for sales before Feb. 22nd. Yet there's no data showing the difference between the four markets and there's no listing of where DTW and CLE rank.

To make flymco's friend "correct" still requires a lot of conjecture. Now source me a WOW rep that says DTW is a distant third and CLE is fourth and I'll buy into your thoughts.
 
Jshank83
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:09 am

izbtmnhd wrote:

Thank you! So we have a WOW rep listing STL and CVG as the top two markets for sales before Feb. 22nd. Yet there's no data showing the difference between the four markets and there's no listing of where DTW and CLE rank.

To make flymco's friend "correct" still requires a lot of conjecture. Now source me a WOW rep that says DTW is a distant third and CLE is fourth and I'll buy into your thoughts.


We know STL/CVG are 1 and 2 (in that order) and DTW/CLE are 3/4 (in some order). I gave my reasons why I can see them being in the order mco listed. As them being "distant", I can see that being the case since STL/CVG got an added frequency and DTW/CLE didn't get any added. Is mco 100% right? Who knows, but I can see his info being right based on what we do know which is why I said he is "probably" correct. I was referring more to the order than the "distant" part when I said that anyway.

But this is a dumb argument getting hung up on a few details and clog up the board. I have said my piece, so I am done with it. Feel free to reply if you need to get in the last word but I am moving on. We can agree to disagree.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:21 pm

Looks like Spirit is learning its CLE/CAK lesson. CAK will succeed on thin routes *ONLY* when it can beat CLE fares. Ms.Van Auken read the tea leaves correctly before she quit.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... outes.html
 
phluser
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:05 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Looks like Spirit is learning its CLE/CAK lesson. CAK will succeed on thin routes *ONLY* when it can beat CLE fares. Ms.Van Auken read the tea leaves correctly before she quit.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... outes.html


Perhaps it wants to be cautious but I don't get why it just can't be done with CAK, and increase CLE-MCO to 2x daily. It's not like 2x daily on CLE-MCO is a lot to expect; splitting one frequency down to CAK when CLE-MCO is just a single flight probably does more harm than good at this point. If one is an leisure flier, but somewhat wary about NK, there'd be some less concern of choosing NK on this route assuming a cancelled flight happens, with better likelihood of re-accommodation on a flight less than 24 hours away, with two flights a day from the originating airport, than one flight per day.
 
chrisjake
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:13 pm

I'm only familiar with Spirit's ops in CLE, do they operate any city pairs multiple times per day?
 
joeman
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:02 am

chrisjake wrote:
I'm only familiar with Spirit's ops in CLE, do they operate any city pairs multiple times per day?

In a some markets from ORD, BOS and DTW, and others such as DTW-MCO, maybe around 3 max, usually 2 on multiples at a glance at their PDF timetable.
 
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flymco753
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:10 pm

joeman wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
I'm only familiar with Spirit's ops in CLE, do they operate any city pairs multiple times per day?

In a some markets from ORD, BOS and DTW, and others such as DTW-MCO, maybe around 3 max, usually 2 on multiples at a glance at their PDF timetable.
It was 4x this winter and will be 3x for the rest of the year until next winter
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

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masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:00 pm

CLE-SAN, a market that seems as if it should have non-stop service but doesn't, in Q3,2017 had 328 pax per day both ways, Frontier offered 4(?) flights a week, the only non-stops, and managed to capture only 36% of the market which means they carried about 104 passengers per flight.On one of their A319s, that's only about a 69% load factor. I guess it's obvious why they didn't repeat the flight this coming summer.

Could a single DAILY non-stop be more successful in capturing more of the traffic? Or is the market just too small to interest any airline, since none of them has a hub at either end? I guess I answered my own question; maybe CLE could see service when the pax count exceeds 400 a day.
 
jplatts
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:43 pm

masseybrown wrote:
CLE-SAN, a market that seems as if it should have non-stop service but doesn't, in Q3,2017 had 328 pax per day both ways, Frontier offered 4(?) flights a week, the only non-stops, and managed to capture only 36% of the market which means they carried about 104 passengers per flight.On one of their A319s, that's only about a 69% load factor. I guess it's obvious why they didn't repeat the flight this coming summer.

Could a single DAILY non-stop be more successful in capturing more of the traffic? Or is the market just too small to interest any airline, since none of them has a hub at either end? I guess I answered my own question; maybe CLE could see service when the pax count exceeds 400 a day.


WN could add CLE-SAN nonstop service since WN has a focus city at SAN, since WN has been at CLE for over 26 years, since WN has been at SAN for over 36 years, and since demand for WN service out of CLE has been increasing since the UA dehubbing at CLE.

While F9 does have seasonal less-than-daily nonstop service to SEA from CLE, the lack of daily nonstop service to SEA on AS, DL, or WN from CLE is a huge hole. There is enough demand for AS, DL, or WN to add CLE-SEA nonstop service. In addition to adding nonstop service to its main SEA hub from CLE, AS could also add nonstop service to PDX and SAN from CLE if it enters the CLE market.

While UA and NK still have nonstop service to LAX from CLE, there is enough demand for AA, DL, or WN to add CLE-LAX nonstop service.

Even though UA still has a hub at SFO, WN could also add CLE-OAK nonstop service since WN has a focus city at OAK and since UA is currently the only airline to have nonstop service to the San Francisco Bay Area out of CLE.
 
Trk1
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:26 pm

Southwest will never have a Cle to Sea or Pdx. You can make book on it.
 
jplatts
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:50 pm

Trk1 wrote:
Southwest will never have a Cle to Sea or Pdx. You can make book on it.


Will AS start service out of CLE? I know that AS would likely serve SEA nonstop from CLE if AS adds service to CLE. Will AS ever serve PDX or SAN nonstop from CLE if it starts service out of CLE?

Will DL ever add nonstop service to SEA from CLE? DL now has a hub at SEA, and DL is still expanding at SEA. DL's SEA hub is also now bigger than its CVG focus city.

If WN will not add CLE-SEA nonstop service, there is more than enough demand for either AS or DL to add CLE-SEA nonstop service.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN could add CLE-SAN nonstop service since WN has a focus city at SAN,


WN has a lot of service in SAN, but none of it is well located to feed a SAN-CLE flight. Any feed to support the route would have to come from the CLE end. BWI-CLE-SAN right now is the only possibility; however there are three existing BWI-SAN frequencies. WN would have to add some new point east of CLE and they don't seem to be in any rush to do that. AS would have the same problem. I just don't see any way to support the route as things stand.
 
jplatts
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:11 pm

masseybrown wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN could add CLE-SAN nonstop service since WN has a focus city at SAN,


WN has a lot of service in SAN, but none of it is well located to feed a SAN-CLE flight. Any feed to support the route would have to come from the CLE end. BWI-CLE-SAN right now is the only possibility; however there are three existing BWI-SAN frequencies. WN would have to add some new point east of CLE and they don't seem to be in any rush to do that. AS would have the same problem. I just don't see any way to support the route as things stand.


WN SAN-EWR nonstop service will be resuming on April 8th, and there are no connecting possibilities that do not require backtracking on WN's SAN-EWR nonstop route. WN also has nonstop service to SEA and PDX from SAN, and there are few connecting opportunities on WN's SAN-SEA and SAN-PDX nonstop flights. WN might be willing to add SAN-CLE nonstop service if there is enough O&D demand for SAN-CLE nonstop service.
 
joeman
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:14 am

masseybrown wrote:
CLE-SAN, a market that seems as if it should have non-stop service but doesn't, in Q3,2017 had 328 pax per day both ways,

Another city pair with nonstop service prior to deregulation. No sense lamenting, but prior to deregulation, the hub focus, practically every legacy airline serving every city pair thru hubs, being sold on frequency demand, etc., 328 passengers average would have probably translated into at least 1-2 daily nonstop flights. I don't know how much of that passenger count is business vs. leisure but I'm guessing the majority might be leisure, where shopping for lowest available price matters, where the multiple competition comes useful to consumer. But even if I were a business man, I'd prefer a direct flight of 4-5 hours over 5-6 hours minimum, when lucky, on a longer distant flight where I think time zone changes would naturally diminish the thirst for abundant frequency options. Just my take and distain for, in my opinion, over reliance on hubs, from a casual travelers point of view, which is probably last on the list of stockholder importance in these customer friendly/first times.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:03 pm

UA ends MKE per Enrila thread. No surprise that WN forced them out.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:18 pm

For the past couple of nights charter freight operator Western Global Airlines has been operating an MD-11F on SDF-CLE-SDF for UPS. The RFD turn is still a UPS 757, as usual. Business must be booming for UPS. I guess another explanation would be a lot of in heavy checks.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:35 pm

masseybrown wrote:
For the past couple of nights charter freight operator Western Global Airlines has been operating an MD-11F on SDF-CLE-SDF for UPS. The RFD turn is still a UPS 757, as usual. Business must be booming for UPS. I guess another explanation would be a lot of in heavy checks.


UPS has also been operating regular service from CLE to RFD with 757s lately.
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
chrisjake
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:07 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
For the past couple of nights charter freight operator Western Global Airlines has been operating an MD-11F on SDF-CLE-SDF for UPS. The RFD turn is still a UPS 757, as usual. Business must be booming for UPS. I guess another explanation would be a lot of in heavy checks.


UPS has also been operating regular service from CLE to RFD with 757s lately.


Before Western Global started this week, I would notice 3 UPS planes on their ramp during the day. Either 2 757's and an A300, or 2 A300's and a 757. Those A300's wont be around long, so its nice seeing both UPS and FedEx bringing them in here, even if temporarily.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:22 pm

masseybrown wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN could add CLE-SAN nonstop service since WN has a focus city at SAN,


WN has a lot of service in SAN, but none of it is well located to feed a SAN-CLE flight. Any feed to support the route would have to come from the CLE end. BWI-CLE-SAN right now is the only possibility; however there are three existing BWI-SAN frequencies. WN would have to add some new point east of CLE and they don't seem to be in any rush to do that. AS would have the same problem. I just don't see any way to support the route as things stand.
While not ideal, you could have connections to the Bay Area. Obviously, DEN or MDW would be better for those, but it is not much different than connecting in PHX, which they offer now.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:18 pm

Article advocating for the closure of Burke:
https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/li ... d=16931820
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:27 am

joeman wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
CLE-SAN, a market that seems as if it should have non-stop service but doesn't, in Q3,2017 had 328 pax per day both ways,

Another city pair with nonstop service prior to deregulation. No sense lamenting, but prior to deregulation, the hub focus, practically every legacy airline serving every city pair thru hubs, being sold on frequency demand, etc., 328 passengers average would have probably translated into at least 1-2 daily nonstop flights. I don't know how much of that passenger count is business vs. leisure but I'm guessing the majority might be leisure, where shopping for lowest available price matters, where the multiple competition comes useful to consumer. But even if I were a business man, I'd prefer a direct flight of 4-5 hours over 5-6 hours minimum, when lucky, on a longer distant flight where I think time zone changes would naturally diminish the thirst for abundant frequency options. Just my take and distain for, in my opinion, over reliance on hubs, from a casual travelers point of view, which is probably last on the list of stockholder importance in these customer friendly/first times.


If a once daily flight was added, although there would be market stimulation, only ~70% of the passengers might take the nonstop based on the time, while a smaller percentage would actually take the flight based on carrier preference. CLE-SAN will probably happen someday, but it will need market stimulation (low fares), and lowerrrr frequency, G4 or F9 or SY I would guess.
Most O/D markets are pretty small, so flying is a risk..,..for new routes/carriers.
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next DEN-IND (to be decided) Any suggestions?
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fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:47 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Article advocating for the closure of Burke:
https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/li ... d=16931820


Pretty well written article, not just an opinion. I'm all for it. At 46 years of age, I doubt I'll ever see it and it's just another reason the CLE region will continue to struggle by underutilizing their own assets.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:34 pm

CGF has a NIMBY problem which has prevented runway expansion in the past; its runway is 5100x100 feet, which is pretty restrictive. BKL is 6600x150 feet and regularly accommodates sports charter 757s. It's not an apples and apples substitution.

A lot of the decline in numbers at BKL is the result of electronic funds transfers. The Cleveland Fed used to be the main check clearinghouse in the country. Checks were flown into BKL from other Federal Reserve Districts every night and settled. That business is gone. Another reason flights are down is the loss of some large corporate headquarters. Downtown, however *IS* growing again - employment, which fell to about 90,000 after 2008 (mostly because Henry Paulson killed NatCity), is back up to 104,000 at the end of 2017. There will be (almost by definition) an increase in corporate flying at BKL in years to come.

And since when is Cleveland short of developable acreage? East side, west side, south side? There are shovel-ready sites everywhere, sites that won't need a hundred million $ worth of roads, water, sewers, etc.before you could build the first house or apartment.

Someday it may be reasonable to redevelop BKL, but it will be VERY expensive and require seriously higher property values to support it. Today the payoff is much greater in Ohio City, Tremont, University Circle, downtown, midtown, the Scranton Peninsula, Opportunity Corridor, or the suburbs.

So you might say I'm against it.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:56 pm

masseybrown wrote:
CGF has a NIMBY problem which has prevented runway expansion in the past; its runway is 5100x100 feet, which is pretty restrictive. BKL is 6600x150 feet and regularly accommodates sports charter 757s. It's not an apples and apples substitution.

A lot of the decline in numbers at BKL is the result of electronic funds transfers. The Cleveland Fed used to be the main check clearinghouse in the country. Checks were flown into BKL from other Federal Reserve Districts every night and settled. That business is gone. Another reason flights are down is the loss of some large corporate headquarters. Downtown, however *IS* growing again - employment, which fell to about 90,000 after 2008 (mostly because Henry Paulson killed NatCity), is back up to 104,000 at the end of 2017. There will be (almost by definition) an increase in corporate flying at BKL in years to come.

And since when is Cleveland short of developable acreage? East side, west side, south side? There are shovel-ready sites everywhere, sites that won't need a hundred million $ worth of roads, water, sewers, etc.before you could build the first house or apartment.

Someday it may be reasonable to redevelop BKL, but it will be VERY expensive and require seriously higher property values to support it. Today the payoff is much greater in Ohio City, Tremont, University Circle, downtown, midtown, the Scranton Peninsula, Opportunity Corridor, or the suburbs.

So you might say I'm against it.
Why can't those charters use CLE? It's not like it is bursting at the seems or out in the boondocks. As for developable property, none of those places you mention are on the lakefront.

I am actually not for the idea, but I am open to considering it.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:53 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Why can't those charters use CLE? It's not like it is bursting at the seems or out in the boondocks. As for developable property, none of those places you mention are on the lakefront.

I am actually not for the idea, but I am open to considering it.


I think the widebody charters do use CLE.

For lakefront (or near-lakefront) there's the old Muni power plant site. There are sites in Detroit-Shoreway. The Lakeview Project could be redeveloped relatively cheaply. There's land on the south side of I-90 to the east. All are sites that would be cheaper to develop than BKL.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Another sign of improving health: Moody's raised CLE's bond rating to A1 from A2 at the end of 2017.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:58 pm

Just looking for BOS-CLE flights. Thought only B6 and UA were on this route but saw Spirit as well---is this new?
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:07 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Just looking for BOS-CLE flights. Thought only B6 and UA were on this route but saw Spirit as well---is this new?


They've been on that route for a little while now... my wife will be flying it in June, so I'm going to get a report from her. I haven't flown Spirit from CLE since a DFW to CLE flight when they started that one up... was a vicitm of bad luck. They had some mechanical issues, so we were delayed a full 24 hours.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:08 pm

DoT's January numbers are out. CLE boardings (domestic scheduled carriers only) up from 277.8K in Jan '17 to 313.0K this year - up 12.7%. Star performer: WN boardings up from 42.7K to 56.6K, up 32.6% with the load factor also up from 74.7% to 77.9%
 
corn4ahead
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:29 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:11 pm

masseybrown wrote:
DoT's January numbers are out. CLE boardings (domestic scheduled carriers only) up from 277.8K in Jan '17 to 313.0K this year - up 12.7%. Star performer: WN boardings up from 42.7K to 56.6K, up 32.6% with the load factor also up from 74.7% to 77.9%


WN needs to make CLE a focus city. Like now. Lol
 
plinth857
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:26 pm

corn4ahead wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
DoT's January numbers are out. CLE boardings (domestic scheduled carriers only) up from 277.8K in Jan '17 to 313.0K this year - up 12.7%. Star performer: WN boardings up from 42.7K to 56.6K, up 32.6% with the load factor also up from 74.7% to 77.9%


WN needs to make CLE a focus city. Like now. Lol


Hahaha... I'd settle for just a couple more year-round destinations.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5167
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:50 pm

The growth is not all at the expense of CAK. While CAK was down by 20K (from 55K to 35K) CLE was up 35.2K.

If the rest of the year matches January, Kennedy's prediction of 9.5 million pax for 2018 will be conservative.
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:48 pm

Sides to Go BBQ now open on Concourse C. The banjo is fully occupied once again.

https://twitter.com/GoingPlacesCLE/stat ... 29/photo/1
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:23 pm

^Don't quite get the name of that place, but as I love barbecue, can't wait to try it.
 
plinth857
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:35 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^Don't quite get the name of that place, but as I love barbecue, can't wait to try it.


They have locations in Macedonia and Maple Heights... I haven't eaten at those, but I have from their food truck. It was very good, and one of the few places in Northeast Ohio I got a crawfish etouffee that was halfway decent. I'm curious how much of their menu they will have at the airport. It's nice to have another local eatery at the airport.
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:03 pm

Flew DEN to CLE on Southwest yesterday and had some time to walk around Hopkins. A couple things I noticed:

- Concourse B now has updated signage (black with white lettering similar to ticketing and baggage claim).
- Gate C28 is now the home of United's Customer Service desk (I think this is new).
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
plinth857
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:08 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Flew DEN to CLE on Southwest yesterday and had some time to walk around Hopkins. A couple things I noticed:

- Concourse B now has updated signage (black with white lettering similar to ticketing and baggage claim).
- Gate C28 is now the home of United's Customer Service desk (I think this is new).


How long has it been since they had an in-concourse service desk? I knew it still existed when they were drawing down the hub, and then they moved it somewhere in the banjo (not C28 at that time), but was it still there? Or did it actually go away and come back?
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:29 am

Looks like parking rates are going up $2 per day at all lots except valet.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... at_cl.html
 
N766UA
Posts: 8065
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:21 am

CLEguy wrote:
Looks like parking rates are going up $2 per day at all lots except valet.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... at_cl.html


The airport can’t even provide basic parking services (like having parking available!), and now they’re jacking up prices?! Fuuuuhuuuuu%# ###!!!!
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 955
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:52 am

N766UA wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
Looks like parking rates are going up $2 per day at all lots except valet.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... at_cl.html


The airport can’t even provide basic parking services (like having parking available!), and now they’re jacking up prices?! Fuuuuhuuuuu%# ###!!!!

One would argue that if the lots are always full then the prices are too low....
1.4mm and counting...
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1281
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:55 am

HPAEAA wrote:
N766UA wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
Looks like parking rates are going up $2 per day at all lots except valet.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... at_cl.html


The airport can’t even provide basic parking services (like having parking available!), and now they’re jacking up prices?! Fuuuuhuuuuu%# ###!!!!

One would argue that if the lots are always full then the prices are too low....


With all that demand, and now higher rates, we still can't get a parking deck on the surface lot? Really CLE? Maybe they could open the D concourse area as a lot. Ha.

On the RED and BLUE lots, they need to employ the smart garage technology. Many times you see that the lot is full on the signs and then drive by and there are open spots. Probably would pay for itself by maximizing spots, as well as keep the double parkers out.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:37 am

In percentage terms the increase is crazy high, and it more customers will find Uber or getting dropped off by Uncle Joe more competitive. Then again as pointed out, if the lots are so often full there’s room to test price sensitivity.
 
plinth857
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:01 pm

I am curious how much increased revenue this will provide. I would be more supportive if we had some guarantees it would bring additional service, but I am skeptical of that claim. I used to park at the Brookpark rapid station and take the train in, but I haven't done that since my car was broken into a couple years ago.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 955
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:46 pm

plinth857 wrote:
I am curious how much increased revenue this will provide. I would be more supportive if we had some guarantees it would bring additional service, but I am skeptical of that claim. I used to park at the Brookpark rapid station and take the train in, but I haven't done that since my car was broken into a couple years ago.


I did find an article from 2016 in which they said a $1 a day increase was expected to bring in approximately 1mm in revenue, so if the underlying assumptions are the same this would likely bring in slightly under 2 mm per year (Prior increase included valet & this does not).
1.4mm and counting...

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