masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:12 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Physically, the city has a great river and lake, with cruises along both and beaches on the lake.


My wife and I are taking one of those cruises this summer. Montreal to Detroit, via Quebec, Kingston, Toronto, Pt. Colborne, and Cleveland. Really looking forward to it - I've always wanted to see the St. Lawrence Seaway. The cruise line brochure says Cleveland is their second most popular port, after Mackinac Island.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:48 am

^Massey--that's cool. I am intrigued as well by the great lakes cruises. I hope those that dock in Cleveland on these cruises get enough time to see some Cleveland.
 
joeman
Posts: 765
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:35 am

greenair727 wrote:
^Massey--that's cool. I am intrigued as well by the great lakes cruises. I hope those that dock in Cleveland on these cruises get enough time to see some Cleveland.

It looks like they have a full day like most cruise ship stops. Don't want to deviate from the aviation topics but for the benefit of our friends that occasionally make ignorant comments about CLE and life here, some info for the 2018 Great Lakes cruise schedules stopping in Cleveland:

Ships: Grand Mariner/Grand Caribe: 4 total stops
http://greatlakescruising.com/new/BSSA- ... s-2018.php

Ship: Victory I: 8 stops
http://greatlakescruising.com/new/Victo ... covery.php

Ship: Victory II: 4 stops
http://greatlakescruising.com/new/Victo ... tLakes.php
http://greatlakescruising.com/new/Victo ... itimes.php
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1281
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:55 am

greenair727 wrote:
^Massey--that's cool. I am intrigued as well by the great lakes cruises. I hope those that dock in Cleveland on these cruises get enough time to see some Cleveland.


The FIS for these cruisers is pretty rustic and will not be a good impression on CLE. It's a tent in the parking lot. I know the Port of CLE was going to request funding for a building, but I'm not sure if that was approved or not.

We'll take tourists with lunch money anytime I guess. At least they can walk to the Rock HOF.
 
joeman
Posts: 765
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:35 pm

fun2fly wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^Massey--that's cool. I am intrigued as well by the great lakes cruises. I hope those that dock in Cleveland on these cruises get enough time to see some Cleveland.


The FIS for these cruisers is pretty rustic and will not be a good impression on CLE. It's a tent in the parking lot. I know the Port of CLE was going to request funding for a building, but I'm not sure if that was approved or not.

We'll take tourists with lunch money anytime I guess. At least they can walk to the Rock HOF.

Volume has steadily but slowly increased over the last few years, probably based on demand so maybe a step up from a tent is getting to be a feasible investment without wasting too much $$

Have fun Massey!!!
 
Robert1010
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:47 pm

Would be nice if the CLE Skylift ever got built ! Would be a fun “ tourist “ thing to do along the Downtown/Lakefront area! Some other city in the U.S. will probably get it first tho per ususal CLE politics and funding!
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:30 pm

Inaugural arrival and departure of WW at Hopkins is Thursday night---anything special being planned? Anyone here on the first departure?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:40 pm

^It's promising that the article said the limited $69 sale for KEF was sold out in 24 hours. People are paying attention.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:43 pm

Not that I'm a media junkie but I'm not seeing much local advertising for either WOW or Icelandair. I do have an Icelandair cookie floating ads on my web browsing but that may be because I've been playing around with some potential trips on their website. . .

I do read PD from cover to cover, no advertising in there, but then again newspaper advertising is pretty much dead for airlines anyway.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:55 pm

^Through ARTICLES in the PD--free advertising--there's been decent coverage of WW and FI. Of course, for the general traveling public that isn't reading the PD or cleveland.com, these articles would not reach them.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:26 pm

The Icelanders have been received reportorial and editorial coverage in specialized publications like Crain's Cleveland, Cleveland Scene, and Freshwater - whose readers are perhaps even more likely than PD readers to travel to Europe. Their services have also been discussed at the meetings and reports of civic organizations like Team NEO, Greater Cleveland Partnership,and Destination Cleveland. I think the word is getting around. The Icelandair rep told Susan Glaser that sales are where they expected. (Of course what else would he say at this point?)
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 4:30 pm

OneJet is buying Ultimate. Pity. I hope Ultimate got a good price.

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.com/2 ... -charters/
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 7:10 pm

^sorry to hear that as Ultimate did a good job on BKL-LUK. The article says: "One Jet will be making additional schedule changes and routing adjustments during May as the Ultimate operations are integrated into its network. The Company will be announcing several route upgrades as well as new seasonal destinations during May 2018, as well. One Jet service operates from the main commercial terminals and airports in markets served and feature TSA PreCheck access, expedited boarding and complimentary onboard amenities, including high-speed internet access."

These sentences back to back doesn't sound good for BKL operations. Does that mean they'd move from BKL to CLE? Would they just drop Cleveland altogether if they can't get into Hopkins? Or would they, despite those sentences, keep BKL operations and maybe add new routes?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 7:27 pm

The best outcome, given who holds the $$$, is that OneJet people will run the CEO functions and Ultimate folks will run the COO stuff.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 8:20 pm

^But corporate policies (CEO functions) could dictate -- only TSA airports or something like that if they want to fold operations into each other. I hope that's not the case as the BKL operations are great and I'd love to see that expanded to other routes like Chicago and New York (LGA--not Jersey!).
 
cvgComair
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 10:32 pm

It sounds like they are keeping the network at CVG/LUK, expanding both cities, then eventually consolidating at CVG. I would imagine they would keep the Cincy to Cleveland connection, even if it becomes CVG-CLE.
Next: BGR-LGA (Delta CRJ-200), LGA-CVG (Delta CRJ-900)
DL SM, A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
cvgComair
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 10:38 pm

Ultimate air shuttle will be adding flights in Cincinnati and Cleveland: http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... tle_t.html
Next: BGR-LGA (Delta CRJ-200), LGA-CVG (Delta CRJ-900)
DL SM, A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 11:20 pm

Here's an article describing the reactions of European travel agents to their 36-hour visit to Cleveland: http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... opean.html
 
greenair727
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue May 01, 2018 11:42 pm

I didn't realize OneJet equipment was 7-passengers. That's tiny. How do they make money with such small planes? Are fares really expensive? The PD article mentioned CLE-MCI as a possible new route. CLE-MCI is 90 PDEW per DOT data--I can't see OneJet being a solution for that demand unless frequency was great. Also, if service from CLE will be serving places other than Lunken, then BKL wouldn't work as pax are unscreened and thus can't arrive in secure areas of arriving airports. So this change may force the move from BKL to CLE, which would be really unfortunate....
 
joeman
Posts: 765
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed May 02, 2018 12:00 am

CLEguy wrote:
Here's an article describing the reactions of European travel agents to their 36-hour visit to Cleveland: http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... opean.html

Sweet. Objective opinions from outside of our national media/entertainment sources still promoting the 50 year old rust belt concept and bla bla that many buy into. This should be saved as a future source for our a.netter friends who will continue to do what they always do
 
cvgComair
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed May 02, 2018 12:07 am

greenair727 wrote:
I didn't realize OneJet equipment was 7-passengers. That's tiny. How do they make money with such small planes? Are fares really expensive? The PD article mentioned CLE-MCI as a possible new route. CLE-MCI is 90 PDEW per DOT data--I can't see OneJet being a solution for that demand unless frequency was great. Also, if service from CLE will be serving places other than Lunken, then BKL wouldn't work as pax are unscreened and thus can't arrive in secure areas of arriving airports. So this change may force the move from BKL to CLE, which would be really unfortunate....

OneJet operates 7, 8, and 30 seat aircraft. Right now they are trying to transition to mostly 30 seat aircraft. It looks like Ultimate would be operating any new flights in Cleveland, so it will probably be BKL. CVG/LUK is going to be split, but it appears it will just be Ultimate at BKL for the moment.
Next: BGR-LGA (Delta CRJ-200), LGA-CVG (Delta CRJ-900)
DL SM, A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed May 02, 2018 2:13 am

At OneJet's current cities---are they in the regular passenger parts of airports? If so, passengers cannot enter this area from an airport that does not offer typical TSA screening, meaning service could not be from Burke OR that screening operations would have to commence at Burke. (I prefer the latter, rather than moving ops to Hopkins.)
 
cvgComair
Posts: 1863
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Wed May 02, 2018 2:36 am

greenair727 wrote:
At OneJet's current cities---are they in the regular passenger parts of airports? If so, passengers cannot enter this area from an airport that does not offer typical TSA screening, meaning service could not be from Burke OR that screening operations would have to commence at Burke. (I prefer the latter, rather than moving ops to Hopkins.)

Yes, OneJet uses regular passenger facilities, so pax must go through security. Of course, if UE operates the flight, they can head to the FBO for the particular airport and keep the BKL service.
Next: BGR-LGA (Delta CRJ-200), LGA-CVG (Delta CRJ-900)
DL SM, A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 4:48 am

chrisjake wrote:
Anyone know why the Antonov A124 is at CLE? Came in last night from Budapest via Keflavik and Goose Bay and looks like it will be here for the week. Was listening to ATC last night after its arrival and it sounded like even the controllers weren't expecting it until the last minute.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_jac ... ed-public/


It took off for Monterrey MX Wednesday night. Based on what is made in Cleveland and what happens around Monterrey, I'd guess they are carrying mining machinery
 
corn4ahead
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:29 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 12:42 pm

masseybrown wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
Anyone know why the Antonov A124 is at CLE? Came in last night from Budapest via Keflavik and Goose Bay and looks like it will be here for the week. Was listening to ATC last night after its arrival and it sounded like even the controllers weren't expecting it until the last minute.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_jac ... ed-public/


It took off for Monterrey MX Wednesday night. Based on what is made in Cleveland and what happens around Monterrey, I'd guess they are carrying mining machinery


I believe it was carrying large boilers.
 
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Groyd
Posts: 21
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 12:54 pm

I believe it was carrying Orion space program related parts like it did last time
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 1:13 pm

Kennedy getting the word out in the business community about Icelandair:

https://twitter.com/braintreebdc/status ... 4703394816
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1281
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 1:29 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Kennedy getting the word out in the business community about Icelandair:

https://twitter.com/braintreebdc/status ... 4703394816


No mention of WOW on that banner which is interesting.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 2:11 pm

^It was not a city event--it was a private business organization (IBN) event and they held it in conjunction with FI.
 
User avatar
Groyd
Posts: 21
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 2:22 pm

AF1 is coming to CLE this weekend again
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 2:29 pm

Groyd wrote:
AF1 is coming to CLE this weekend again


Does it go to BKL or CLE? Hopefully Burke as to not disrupt normal airline operations for the whole country....
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 4:28 pm

Here it comes: WOW113 A321 Keflavik Int'l (KEF / BIKF) Thu 09:00PM GMT Thu 11:15PM EDT
 
Robert1010
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:23 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 5:07 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Here it comes: WOW113 A321 Keflavik Int'l (KEF / BIKF) Thu 09:00PM GMT Thu 11:15PM EDT

Curious to see how full/empty it is , being the first leg!
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1281
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 7:00 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Here it comes: WOW113 A321 Keflavik Int'l (KEF / BIKF) Thu 09:00PM GMT Thu 11:15PM EDT


Great week at CLE. Antonov, WOW, AF1 + Raptors (Air Canada at Burke I think).
 
User avatar
Groyd
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:15 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 7:42 pm

Definitely coming to CLE like it did last month. I don’t know why they’d try to land a 747 at Burke anyway...doesn’t cause much of a disruption in airline schedules fortunately.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 7:46 pm

^There's a 757 version of AF1 as well, which can land (and has before landed) at BKL.
 
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Groyd
Posts: 21
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 7:54 pm

BKL is in the 30nm TFR as well obviously
 
User avatar
Groyd
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:15 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 7:55 pm

The 757? That’s a C-32 757 variant, usually operates as Air Force Two carrying the VP or possibly First Lady. Seldom used for other White House executives.
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu May 03, 2018 7:58 pm

At the airport right now for my flight to JAX (first time trying Allegiant). There’s a podium set up at Gate A11 with WOW-colored balloons. The new-style black and white signage is up in Concourse A (only C still has the maroon signs). Smooth sailing over here.
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
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CLEguy
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 12:46 am

SgtBarone wrote:
At the airport right now for my flight to JAX (first time trying Allegiant). There’s a podium set up at Gate A11 with WOW-colored balloons. The new-style black and white signage is up in Concourse A (only C still has the maroon signs). Smooth sailing over here.


Interesting that the airport's website flight status does not show WW113 or WW114. It seems as if someone in IT forgot to add WOW? I wonder if the monitors at the airport show the flights. I will be there later and report back.
 
swacle
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 3:38 am

CLEguy wrote:
SgtBarone wrote:
At the airport right now for my flight to JAX (first time trying Allegiant). There’s a podium set up at Gate A11 with WOW-colored balloons. The new-style black and white signage is up in Concourse A (only C still has the maroon signs). Smooth sailing over here.


Interesting that the airport's website flight status does not show WW113 or WW114. It seems as if someone in IT forgot to add WOW? I wonder if the monitors at the airport show the flights. I will be there later and report back.


For some reason it came in as WW 4SM (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/WOW ... /BIKF/KCLE) instead of WW 113. Also, while WW 114 is showing on Flight Aware, so is WW 4SJ. If the monitors are set up to look only for WW 113 and 114 on the flight trackers it might not have picked them up.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
fsafsx
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 4:12 am

Wow will be a hit for Cleveland just like Icelandair. Next up is Lingus to Dublin and Condor to Frankfurt and Volaris to gdl.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1281
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 10:50 am

swacle wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
SgtBarone wrote:
At the airport right now for my flight to JAX (first time trying Allegiant). There’s a podium set up at Gate A11 with WOW-colored balloons. The new-style black and white signage is up in Concourse A (only C still has the maroon signs). Smooth sailing over here.


Interesting that the airport's website flight status does not show WW113 or WW114. It seems as if someone in IT forgot to add WOW? I wonder if the monitors at the airport show the flights. I will be there later and report back.


For some reason it came in as WW 4SM (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/WOW ... /BIKF/KCLE) instead of WW 113. Also, while WW 114 is showing on Flight Aware, so is WW 4SJ. If the monitors are set up to look only for WW 113 and 114 on the flight trackers it might not have picked them up.


5H47M. Not a bad commute.
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 11:31 am

Quite a few pictures from last night:

https://mobile.twitter.com/GoingPlacesC ... r%5Eauthor
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 1:21 pm

Anyone have a sense how the full the inaugural flights were last night?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5169
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 2:19 pm

^The PD article said it was about half full inbound and 190/200 full outbound. Of those 190 outbound pax, only Wow knows how many paid.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 2:21 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Anyone have a sense how the full the inaugural flights were last night?


This was in the plain dealer article:

"Wow's flight, on a 200-seat Airbus A321, was nearly full, with 190 seats occupied.

Among the inaugural passengers were Carol Mata and Matt Gordon, who drove to Cleveland from Cincinnati to catch the flight. They're headed to Barcelona. Mata said she paid less for this flight - about $330 round-trip - than she did to fly to Florida earlier this year. After their 12 days in Europe, she and Gordon are flying home directly to Cincinnati, where Wow is starting service on May 9...."

If people are driving from Cincinnati, we can certainly count on the Columbus area for pax (though some may go to CVG though I think CLE is closer).

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... rt_m-rpt-1
 
User avatar
Groyd
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:15 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 7:34 pm

In addition to that...

"Among the visitors to Cleveland: Five women from London in town for a wedding in Chardon; and four travel writers from Europe, touring Cleveland for the next several days.

Inbound passengers also included Paul Camper of Brunswick, returning home from a trip to Reykjavik and London. In the past, he said, he's driven to Pittsburgh, Toronto and other cities to find cheap fares to Europe. Now, he said, the cheap fares have finally arrived in Cleveland.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1052
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 7:40 pm

^Yes, I think the USDOT numbers for CLE will be more accurate about demand now as the bleed to PIT, YYZ, and DTW should be significantly decreased. By driving to those airports, one may get a non-stop to a European city, but now, with the fares out of CLE being competitive, one must determine if driving 3-5 hours one way is worth it over spending that time in a connection at KEF (and saving gas money).
 
ncflyer
Posts: 822
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri May 04, 2018 7:49 pm

Another form of international leakage that I hope can be greatly reduced is buying a separate ticket to get to a more competitive international airport such as ORD or IAD. I've done it myself I could buy CLE to IAD and then IAD to CDG, for $500 cheaper than CLE CDG tickets. All on United. I hated being the one at risk for a missed connection but I hated even more paying $500 extra for literally the exact same flights. Airline planners have to know this kind of thing goes on all the time, but quantifying it is another matter.

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