ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Tue May 22, 2018 11:58 pm

cvgComair wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
CVG has also significantly delayed the master plan schedule by about 6 months:
Prepare Aviation Activity Forecasts – Under FAA Review
Inventory Existing Conditions – Spring 2018
Develop Facility Requirements/Needs – Spring 2018
Develop Passenger Terminal Plan – Summer 2018
Develop Airfield and Roadway/Parking Plans – Summer 2018
Prepare Financial Feasibility Plan – Fall 2018
Create Implementation Plan – Fall 2018
Evaluate Environmental Implications – Fall 2018
Master Plan Reports – Spring 2019

All this delaying makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes at DHL/Amazon. The amount of time they have been planning is crazy, in total they are scheduled to have worked on it for over 2 years. Given the recent purchases of land, I have a feeling the facility is going to be even bigger than was originally announced.


Three things I will be looking for in this plan.

1. Due to the increased traffic from DHL/Amazon, will the east-west runway proposal be brought back? Or will widening the existing runways be enough?

2. Will they still consider unifying the concourses into one (expect bigger now that CVG pax numbers are going up)?

3. What will they do with the existing rental car lots once the CONRAC is finished? Perhaps replacing the hotel over there could be in the cards?

I am also interested to see what the runway/taxiway plan is going forward. The operation flow is heavily optimized for passenger traffic and is going to create some crazy long taxi times from much of the Amazon facility. Another east/west runway would help significantly, especially since 18R/36L is kind of short for widebody takeoffs. With noise considerations, departures to the west minimize the populations affected by noise. The airport is also going to get a ton of complaints once they start up 3 simultaneous arrivals on 18L/C/R, especially when the bulk of the traffic being large widebodies.

I also want to see what the plans to handle increasing O&D passengers are. As it stands, there are not enough ticket counters, the security area is too congested, and there is not enough parking.


They should have done another E/W Runway as opposed to building 18R/36L, but then again, who knew back in the 2003-2005 timeframe things would be as they are today? They probably could build another E/W runway easily from the insane amount of landing fees they are collecting from DHL/Amazon.

As far as the terminal area, I believe in the 2007 master plan (before the hub drawdown kicked into overdrive around 2008-2009 timeframe) they had medium term plans to expand the ticketing area to the west, but it would appear the new CONRAC will now preclude that. Maybe to the east? Parking could be accomplished by rebuilding the former rental car area into another parking lot once the CONRAC is finished.

I've come to this conclusion about the concourses: Once the DL lease is up on B in 2020, CVG should consider demolishing both A & B long term and replacing them with a one new unified concourse with a modern design. The concourse would have 55 gates, 5 more than they have now between A & B. This would allow room for growth, but I don't think CVG will need more gates than that for the foreseeable future. Other similar sized airports have between 35-50 gates on average, so they would be above average. Plus, how many gates will the carriers need in the future?

The current A & B layout was designed for a hub operation and since the airport is now O&D focused, they should design a new terminal with that in mind. I would keep the underground walkway though, but remove the people mover and simply replace it with new moving sidewalks. I know this is kind of similar to what they were proposing in the last master plan, but it would be larger and more sophisticated.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2779
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 1:36 am

ADrum23 wrote:
They should have done another E/W Runway as opposed to building 18R/36L, but then again, who knew back in the 2003-2005 timeframe things would be as they are today? They probably could build another E/W runway easily from the insane amount of landing fees they are collecting from DHL/Amazon.

As far as the terminal area, I believe in the 2007 master plan (before the hub drawdown kicked into overdrive around 2008-2009 timeframe) they had medium term plans to expand the ticketing area to the west, but it would appear the new CONRAC will now preclude that. Maybe to the east? Parking could be accomplished by rebuilding the former rental car area into another parking lot once the CONRAC is finished.

I've come to this conclusion about the concourses: Once the DL lease is up on B in 2020, CVG should consider demolishing both A & B long term and replacing them with a one new unified concourse with a modern design. The concourse would have 55 gates, 5 more than they have now between A & B. This would allow room for growth, but I don't think CVG will need more gates than that for the foreseeable future. Other similar sized airports have between 35-50 gates on average, so they would be above average. Plus, how many gates will the carriers need in the future?

The current A & B layout was designed for a hub operation and since the airport is now O&D focused, they should design a new terminal with that in mind. I would keep the underground walkway though, but remove the people mover and simply replace it with new moving sidewalks. I know this is kind of similar to what they were proposing in the last master plan, but it would be larger and more sophisticated.


Could a non-underground connector walkway be added between the security checkpoint and Concourse A be added at CVG? Some examples of airports with non-underground connector walkways between the security checkpoint and the gate area include the following:
  • A bridge connecting the main terminal building to Concourse A at DEN
  • A bridge connecting the entrance, exit, and ticketing area to the concourses at MDW
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gate area at DAL
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the Central Concourse (the gate area that was constructed prior to the international gates) at HOU
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gates at Terminal A at DCA
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 1:39 am

jplatts wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
They should have done another E/W Runway as opposed to building 18R/36L, but then again, who knew back in the 2003-2005 timeframe things would be as they are today? They probably could build another E/W runway easily from the insane amount of landing fees they are collecting from DHL/Amazon.

As far as the terminal area, I believe in the 2007 master plan (before the hub drawdown kicked into overdrive around 2008-2009 timeframe) they had medium term plans to expand the ticketing area to the west, but it would appear the new CONRAC will now preclude that. Maybe to the east? Parking could be accomplished by rebuilding the former rental car area into another parking lot once the CONRAC is finished.

I've come to this conclusion about the concourses: Once the DL lease is up on B in 2020, CVG should consider demolishing both A & B long term and replacing them with a one new unified concourse with a modern design. The concourse would have 55 gates, 5 more than they have now between A & B. This would allow room for growth, but I don't think CVG will need more gates than that for the foreseeable future. Other similar sized airports have between 35-50 gates on average, so they would be above average. Plus, how many gates will the carriers need in the future?

The current A & B layout was designed for a hub operation and since the airport is now O&D focused, they should design a new terminal with that in mind. I would keep the underground walkway though, but remove the people mover and simply replace it with new moving sidewalks. I know this is kind of similar to what they were proposing in the last master plan, but it would be larger and more sophisticated.


Could a non-underground connector walkway be added between the security checkpoint and Concourse A be added at CVG? Some examples of airports with non-underground connector walkways between the security checkpoint and the gate area include the following:
  • A bridge connecting the main terminal building to Concourse A at DEN
  • A bridge connecting the entrance, exit, and ticketing area to the concourses at MDW
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gate area at DAL
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the Central Concourse (the gate area that was constructed prior to the international gates) at HOU
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gates at Terminal A at DCA


I believe cvgComair has stated CVG wants to keep the underground tunnel for better airplane flow on the tarmac. However, I do not think two separate concourses are necessary anymore, so I proposed building a new 55 gate (including one A380 capable gate) expandable concourse in between the current two to replace both, which would be connected to the main building via a heavily refurbished underground walkway (eliminating the train and providing new moving walkways instead).
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4967
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 1:45 am

I stumbled upon this by accident today, but DL ran a 757 on the midday flight (DL1276) to ATL at least one day last week. The 757 is typically one of the RONs when they bring it to town.

DL Bingo Ball scheduling or testing the waters for the further upgauges Stratchko spoke of?

NoTime wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
As for F9, the rise of sprit and their collapse is the greatest WTF moment in CMH aviation. They could have had all of the NK traffic to themselves, but they squandered the opportunity and NK has come in and seized it.


Yeah, I just can't figure this out. I mean, I' m sure F9 has plenty of number-crunchers - at least as many as NK - and yet they didn't see the opportunities that were there?

Very surprising... very odd.


I feel like NK might have sensed F9 blood in the water given how great guns they went right out of the gate. Seven destinations from the start, and four (LAS, MCO, RSW, TPA) were served by F9.

F9 also seems to drop a destination and replace it with another, too. It looks like LAS is gone right around the time SAT is announced. (I'm still surprised G4 hasn't added LAS, but maybe that's the catalyst.)
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 1:50 am

ADrum23 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
They should have done another E/W Runway as opposed to building 18R/36L, but then again, who knew back in the 2003-2005 timeframe things would be as they are today? They probably could build another E/W runway easily from the insane amount of landing fees they are collecting from DHL/Amazon.

As far as the terminal area, I believe in the 2007 master plan (before the hub drawdown kicked into overdrive around 2008-2009 timeframe) they had medium term plans to expand the ticketing area to the west, but it would appear the new CONRAC will now preclude that. Maybe to the east? Parking could be accomplished by rebuilding the former rental car area into another parking lot once the CONRAC is finished.

I've come to this conclusion about the concourses: Once the DL lease is up on B in 2020, CVG should consider demolishing both A & B long term and replacing them with a one new unified concourse with a modern design. The concourse would have 55 gates, 5 more than they have now between A & B. This would allow room for growth, but I don't think CVG will need more gates than that for the foreseeable future. Other similar sized airports have between 35-50 gates on average, so they would be above average. Plus, how many gates will the carriers need in the future?

The current A & B layout was designed for a hub operation and since the airport is now O&D focused, they should design a new terminal with that in mind. I would keep the underground walkway though, but remove the people mover and simply replace it with new moving sidewalks. I know this is kind of similar to what they were proposing in the last master plan, but it would be larger and more sophisticated.


Could a non-underground connector walkway be added between the security checkpoint and Concourse A be added at CVG? Some examples of airports with non-underground connector walkways between the security checkpoint and the gate area include the following:
  • A bridge connecting the main terminal building to Concourse A at DEN
  • A bridge connecting the entrance, exit, and ticketing area to the concourses at MDW
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gate area at DAL
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the Central Concourse (the gate area that was constructed prior to the international gates) at HOU
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gates at Terminal A at DCA


I believe cvgComair has stated CVG wants to keep the underground tunnel for better airplane flow on the tarmac. However, I do not think two separate concourses are necessary anymore, so I proposed building a new 55 gate (including one A380 capable gate) expandable concourse in between the current two to replace both, which would be connected to the main building via a heavily refurbished underground walkway (eliminating the train and providing new moving walkways instead).

I totally agree with the unified concourse idea, there is no reason to have them separated. As for the train, the 2035 master plan wanted to use one train for regular passengers and the other for international arrivals. The FIS needs to move to the main terminal so that they do not have to operate a secondary checkpoint in the gate area. Given the short distance, I would imagine that they will not keep the train, it really isn't even necessary now.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 2:18 am

cvgComair wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

Could a non-underground connector walkway be added between the security checkpoint and Concourse A be added at CVG? Some examples of airports with non-underground connector walkways between the security checkpoint and the gate area include the following:
  • A bridge connecting the main terminal building to Concourse A at DEN
  • A bridge connecting the entrance, exit, and ticketing area to the concourses at MDW
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gate area at DAL
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the Central Concourse (the gate area that was constructed prior to the international gates) at HOU
  • A walkway connecting the security checkpoint to the gates at Terminal A at DCA


I believe cvgComair has stated CVG wants to keep the underground tunnel for better airplane flow on the tarmac. However, I do not think two separate concourses are necessary anymore, so I proposed building a new 55 gate (including one A380 capable gate) expandable concourse in between the current two to replace both, which would be connected to the main building via a heavily refurbished underground walkway (eliminating the train and providing new moving walkways instead).

I totally agree with the unified concourse idea, there is no reason to have them separated. As for the train, the 2035 master plan wanted to use one train for regular passengers and the other for international arrivals. The FIS needs to move to the main terminal so that they do not have to operate a secondary checkpoint in the gate area. Given the short distance, I would imagine that they will not keep the train, it really isn't even necessary now.


A much better idea would be to convert one of the train tunnels into a sterile corridor for international arrivals, similar to what you were saying above. That way you could build a new concourse in the middle of the tarmac and not have to mess with attaching anything to the terminal.

CVG should call up the folks at Hensel Phelps and get going on a new terminal design.
 
Yossarian22
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:25 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 5:23 am

Building a completely new concourse seems like a tremendous waste of resources. Concourse B was completed in the mid 90s. Most airports would love to have a concourse that young. I know they need to repair the baggage facilities underneath, but why does that mean they have to bulldoze the entire thing? Concourse A is a bit older, but it was completed renovated when it was repurposed from a Delta concourse to the non-Delta concourse. Compared to most American airports these are “modern facilities”.

Also, I don’t really find the time from check-in to the Delta gates to be that terrible and I rarely take the train to/from the Delta gates when I use CVG. It was very efficient when it was a big time hub, and compared to other large airports (which CVG use to be), the walk is relatively easy.

Also, bulldozing and replacing the concourses, that will take years and of construction and will probably have a massive effect on operations, if they want to keep the same tunnel and land-side terimanal.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 11:22 am

Yossarian22 wrote:
Building a completely new concourse seems like a tremendous waste of resources. Concourse B was completed in the mid 90s. Most airports would love to have a concourse that young. I know they need to repair the baggage facilities underneath, but why does that mean they have to bulldoze the entire thing? Concourse A is a bit older, but it was completed renovated when it was repurposed from a Delta concourse to the non-Delta concourse. Compared to most American airports these are “modern facilities”.


CVG themselves have stated that the existing facilities are oversized and outdated in a sense. Read this article.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/southwests-arrival-means-concourse-a-at-cvg-will-get-an-upgrade-but-its-long-term-fate-remains-up-in-the-air

They basically are stating they need a new terminal to better match their transition to an O&D airport. Nothing will be done until next decade at the soonest though.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 23, 2018 3:01 pm

Yossarian22 wrote:
Building a completely new concourse seems like a tremendous waste of resources. Concourse B was completed in the mid 90s. Most airports would love to have a concourse that young. I know they need to repair the baggage facilities underneath, but why does that mean they have to bulldoze the entire thing? Concourse A is a bit older, but it was completed renovated when it was repurposed from a Delta concourse to the non-Delta concourse. Compared to most American airports these are “modern facilities”.

Also, I don’t really find the time from check-in to the Delta gates to be that terrible and I rarely take the train to/from the Delta gates when I use CVG. It was very efficient when it was a big time hub, and compared to other large airports (which CVG use to be), the walk is relatively easy.

Also, bulldozing and replacing the concourses, that will take years and of construction and will probably have a massive effect on operations, if they want to keep the same tunnel and land-side terimanal.

Concourse A is from the 70's and has undergone countless renovations in its time. This master plan is for 2050, so the concourses will be 40 and 60 years old by the time they will probably actually get around to replacing them (~2030). The concourses are super nice, but structurally they are not doing the best. At some point, it makes better financial sense to just rebuild them than renovations every few years.

The ticket counters and parking are probably the most pressing needs at the moment. The other concern comes if DL does not renew its lease on Concourse B, as CVG will assume ownership and the burden of operating the concourses. If this happens (though given DL's growth, I bet they keep the current lease), CVG wants to have one unified concourse for cost purposes.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2273
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 5:59 pm

Anyone know why Kalitta has been running a 744 shuttle between Doncaster/Sheffield UK and LCK nearly every day this week?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CKS202
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 6:24 pm

CVG is expected to break the record for the most O&D passengers in a month for May, June, July, August, and even possibly September. The airport also confirmed that 9 million passengers is possible for 2018. As has been mentioned here before, Delta and Allegiant are the primary drivers of this growth. https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/cvg-o ... ers-served
 
greenair727
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 6:43 pm

^That's great news---who would have thought they would have exceeded the good old (pre NW merger) DL hub days!
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 7:18 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^That's great news---who would have thought they would have exceeded the good old (pre NW merger) DL hub days!


Technically, they got a long way to go before exceeding the 22 million total pax they had at the peak of the DL hub. Nonetheless, this is excellent for CVG. They are coming back super strong, they are probably better off now than they were in the hub days.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1202
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 7:27 pm

Similar pattern for CLE and PIT. Having a hub is really a double edged sword. I've always thought of it that the users of an airport pay a tax, and a pretty big tax, so that there is nonstop service to Madison, Richmond, Knoxville, et al. To business people this tax is worthwhile, to every day travelers who mainly need to go to Las Vegas, Orlando, New York, Florida, et al maybe not so much.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 7:31 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^That's great news---who would have thought they would have exceeded the good old (pre NW merger) DL hub days!


Technically, they got a long way to go before exceeding the 22 million total pax they had at the peak of the DL hub. Nonetheless, this is excellent for CVG. They are coming back super strong, they are probably better off now than they were in the hub days.


Ah---I see. The poster said "CVG is expected to break the record for the most O&D passengers in a month for May, June, July, August, and even possibly September." I guess he meant, record of the last few years not 'record' in general! Hence my surprise....
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 7:37 pm

greenair727 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
^That's great news---who would have thought they would have exceeded the good old (pre NW merger) DL hub days!


Technically, they got a long way to go before exceeding the 22 million total pax they had at the peak of the DL hub. Nonetheless, this is excellent for CVG. They are coming back super strong, they are probably better off now than they were in the hub days.


Ah---I see. The poster said "CVG is expected to break the record for the most O&D passengers in a month for May, June, July, August, and even possibly September." I guess he meant, record of the last few years not 'record' in general! Hence my surprise....

It is the all-time record for O&D pax, which excludes connecting passengers. I believe the O&D record is from 2001 or 2005. The record is 370,000 O&D passengers (one-way) in a month, and May, June, July, August, and September should beat that total.
 
papatango
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri May 25, 2018 8:23 pm

What's the latest on the CMH quest for TRANSATLANTIC service?
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon May 28, 2018 8:29 pm

CVG-DTW switches from an M90 to a 320 this summer.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Tue May 29, 2018 11:42 pm

flymco753 wrote:
CVG-DTW switches from an M90 to a 320 this summer.

DL is scheduling a lot of Airbus at CVG starting soon, not sure what is sparking the change, especially with the expanded 737 base. It looks like CVG-SLC/LGA/DTW/TPA will see them in the summer, CVG-SEA/LGA see them in the Fall, CVG-LAX/PHX/MCO/FLL/BOS/CUN/RSW/LGA/LAS/SEA in the Winter, and CVG-LGA/MSP/SLC/PHX in the Spring. It used to be CVG-SLC was pretty much the only A320 route, with occasional runs to DTW/MSP/ATL/LGA.

I wonder what the possibility of an A32S base is, especially since they have 170+ 32S's on order. It is probably a long shot, but I could see a lot more of them at CVG as the M88/90's are retired. There are quite a few routes like CVG-MSP/DTW/LGA/EWR/DFW/IAH/AUS that could support some more mainline service. I'd even take less frequencies if it meant less flights on the RJ's.
 
topguncnod
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 1:46 am

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 12:57 am

cvgComair wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
CVG-DTW switches from an M90 to a 320 this summer.

DL is scheduling a lot of Airbus at CVG starting soon, not sure what is sparking the change, especially with the expanded 737 base. It looks like CVG-SLC/LGA/DTW/TPA will see them in the summer, CVG-SEA/LGA see them in the Fall, CVG-LAX/PHX/MCO/FLL/BOS/CUN/RSW/LGA/LAS/SEA in the Winter, and CVG-LGA/MSP/SLC/PHX in the Spring. It used to be CVG-SLC was pretty much the only A320 route, with occasional runs to DTW/MSP/ATL/LGA.

I wonder what the possibility of an A32S base is, especially since they have 170+ 32S's on order. It is probably a long shot, but I could see a lot more of them at CVG as the M88/90's are retired. There are quite a few routes like CVG-MSP/DTW/LGA/EWR/DFW/IAH/AUS that could support some more mainline service. I'd even take less frequencies if it meant less flights on the RJ's.



Very interesting. Not sure what would cause that as they are still building out the new base. They just added two more CVG 73n pilots in the new hire class last week:

73n cvg 2
73n lax 8
73n sea 1
73n slc 2
73n nyc 5
717 nyc 2
717 atl 5
m88 atl 15

Maybe not enough pilots at the base trained on the 73n yet?
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 2:33 am

Breaking it down by month:
Image
It looks like the MD departures are being gutted in June, while the 32s makes its appearance. By October, the 73n ops balloon, while the MDs are all but eliminated. By the winter, the 73n ops are back down and 717s are eliminated, while the 32s ops balloon. Interestingly, after being almost completely eliminated, the MDs come back in April as the #2 type. I think all the ATL MD frequencies will be eliminated by then though, so it will probably more look like 18-73n, 5-32s, 0-717, 4-MD90. We also have the variable of the CSeries, which will ultimately make an appearance.

To me, it looks like they are planning on some new hires and ballooning the 73n ops before expecting some pilots to upgrade ac/retire, with the 32s filling the intermediate gap. There is also the possibility that they are just waiting to see how many new hires they receive and the 32s ops will switch to 73n as needed?
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 3:12 am

cvgComair wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
CVG-DTW switches from an M90 to a 320 this summer.

DL is scheduling a lot of Airbus at CVG starting soon, not sure what is sparking the change, especially with the expanded 737 base. It looks like CVG-SLC/LGA/DTW/TPA will see them in the summer, CVG-SEA/LGA see them in the Fall, CVG-LAX/PHX/MCO/FLL/BOS/CUN/RSW/LGA/LAS/SEA in the Winter, and CVG-LGA/MSP/SLC/PHX in the Spring. It used to be CVG-SLC was pretty much the only A320 route, with occasional runs to DTW/MSP/ATL/LGA.

I wonder what the possibility of an A32S base is, especially since they have 170+ 32S's on order. It is probably a long shot, but I could see a lot more of them at CVG as the M88/90's are retired. There are quite a few routes like CVG-MSP/DTW/LGA/EWR/DFW/IAH/AUS that could support some more mainline service. I'd even take less frequencies if it meant less flights on the RJ's.


So is DL CVG-LGA going mainline year round then?
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed May 30, 2018 3:44 am

ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
CVG-DTW switches from an M90 to a 320 this summer.

DL is scheduling a lot of Airbus at CVG starting soon, not sure what is sparking the change, especially with the expanded 737 base. It looks like CVG-SLC/LGA/DTW/TPA will see them in the summer, CVG-SEA/LGA see them in the Fall, CVG-LAX/PHX/MCO/FLL/BOS/CUN/RSW/LGA/LAS/SEA in the Winter, and CVG-LGA/MSP/SLC/PHX in the Spring. It used to be CVG-SLC was pretty much the only A320 route, with occasional runs to DTW/MSP/ATL/LGA.

I wonder what the possibility of an A32S base is, especially since they have 170+ 32S's on order. It is probably a long shot, but I could see a lot more of them at CVG as the M88/90's are retired. There are quite a few routes like CVG-MSP/DTW/LGA/EWR/DFW/IAH/AUS that could support some more mainline service. I'd even take less frequencies if it meant less flights on the RJ's.


So is DL CVG-LGA going mainline year round then?

Almost, it will operate the whole year except for an 8 week hiatus from Oct 1 to Nov 26. It is daily through the end of the booking window, so thereafter, it will probably be year round.

On the opposing side, it looks like CVG-DCA mainline will not return this winter. However, that makes sense since the 717's will be leaving.
 
Briancw
Posts: 65
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 12:29 pm

I'm seeing an additional non-stop add to/from MSY on Friday's for CMH on WN schedule extension. 2x weekly now. No LGA add, tho.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 12:43 pm

WN's CVG-PHX returns on Nov 17, Nov 24, Dec 22, and Dec 29 with a B737-800.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 4:34 pm

CVG put out the increases in passengers in more detail (YOY April 2017 vs April 2018):
Allegiant: up 60 percent
United: up 25.5 percent
Frontier: up 18.9 percent
Delta: up 11 percent
American: up 2.5 percent

Allegiant is really driving up passenger numbers... DL should kick in more in May/June once its capacity increases take effect. Overall, really impressive passenger increases!
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 6:19 pm

Impressed by UA, nice to actually see growth from them. Even 11% by DL is good. You (CVG) will probably overtake us (IND) in total traffic this year. Not sure about O/D though, IND may still carry a slight edge.
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ncflyer
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 6:44 pm

Are the raw numbers somewhere? With 11% growth on a big base, I'd have to assume Delta is really the one driving up passenger numbers.
 
cvgComair
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 7:01 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Impressed by UA, nice to actually see growth from them. Even 11% by DL is good. You (CVG) will probably overtake us (IND) in total traffic this year. Not sure about O/D though, IND may still carry a slight edge.

It is going to be very close, it looks like CVG will just edge out 9 million. It all depends on how much growth IND sees in the 2nd half of the year.
ncflyer wrote:
Are the raw numbers somewhere? With 11% growth on a big base, I'd have to assume Delta is really the one driving up passenger numbers.

I don't have all the raw numbers, but G4/DL have added the most seats to CVG and are the primary drivers of growth. DL flew 3.8 of the 7.8 million passengers at CVG for 2017, so that is essentially 400,000 more passengers this year, which is second in added seats only to G4. DL's seat numbers will climb even more for May/June, so I would expect their YOY change to increase even more.

The capacity increases by DL are quite surprising given their history, but it seems they are working hard to suppress WN (and to an extend G4/F9/UA). WN is doing okay, but DL seems to be doing very well on WN's routes.

I wish CVG would breakdown traffic by carrier, but sadly they don't. Once the DOT stats come out, I would be glad to provide the raw seat increases.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:05 am

cvgComair wrote:
The capacity increases by DL are quite surprising given their history, but it seems they are working hard to suppress WN (and to an extend G4/F9/UA). WN is doing okay, but DL seems to be doing very well on WN's routes.


I am still surprised DL is actively trying to fend off WN at CVG as much as they can. While I see WN eventually growing into the second largest carrier at CVG (though not for a few years), the most I see them expanding destination wise is to all of their operating bases (sans ATL) and perhaps a focus city or two. They'll carve out a nice niche, but they won't overtake DL by any means.

It seems like DL and WN in particular are getting into some unique skirmishes as of late. From DL trying to fend off WN at CVG to the fight at DAL and potentially a fight at AUS in the near future if the rumored DL expansion is true.
 
flyguy89
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Still not seeing any WOW flights from CVG in the winter. Kinda disappointing considering it seemed to be a strong performer since they added a frequency even before it launched.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:24 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Still not seeing any WOW flights from CVG in the winter. Kinda disappointing considering it seemed to be a strong performer since they added a frequency even before it launched.

Agreed. I am going to wait another week or two and contact them again. I get making CLE seasonal because they have two carriers to Iceland, but I find it hard to believe that they cannot make CVG work in the winter.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4967
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:03 am

PIT went to the magic money tree and plucked money for a one-off PVG-PIT charter flight to be operated by China Eastern.

Maybe the prospect of any sort of CMH-Asia service has been upgraded from "inconceivable" to "highly remote but plausible, I guess"?
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boscmh
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:07 am

^ I admire what PIT is doing, but I'm not sure that gamble is going to pay off for them (along with their QR cargo deal)

CMH still has bigger fish to fry at the moment as well - SFO and SEA need to happen asap. Period. Then if they can scrounge up the funds for it, I'd say DL to AMS would be the next priority
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:02 pm

UA is adding CVG-IAH mainline service from July 8 to July 31 using an A320.

DL is upguaging CVG-RDU from 2xCRJ to 2xCR9 effective February 7, appears to be a year round change. CVG-IAH/DFW also appear to be getting Saturday service fro Jan/Feb, not sure if that will stick, though.
 
topguncnod
Posts: 53
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:29 pm

cvgComair wrote:
UA is adding CVG-IAH mainline service from July 8 to July 31 using an A320.

DL is upguaging CVG-RDU from 2xCRJ to 2xCR9 effective February 7, appears to be a year round change. CVG-IAH/DFW also appear to be getting Saturday service fro Jan/Feb, not sure if that will stick, though.


The RDU upguage is definitely welcome. Did you notice any other changes? A quick check and I noticed CVG-ORD is all CRJ in mid Feb. I don’t think that’s normal...
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:44 pm

topguncnod wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
UA is adding CVG-IAH mainline service from July 8 to July 31 using an A320.

DL is upguaging CVG-RDU from 2xCRJ to 2xCR9 effective February 7, appears to be a year round change. CVG-IAH/DFW also appear to be getting Saturday service fro Jan/Feb, not sure if that will stick, though.

The RDU upguage is definitely welcome. Did you notice any other changes? A quick check and I noticed CVG-ORD is all CRJ in mid Feb. I don’t think that’s normal...

They keep going back and forth between 1xCR9/1xCR7/2xCRJ and 4xCRJ, not really sure where that is going to settle. However, 1xCR9/1xCR7/2xCRJ is the normal level for the route.

They are playing around with the CVG-BWI/CLT/PHL/YYZ/IAH frequencies as well, but I haven't reported anything yet because it changes so often. I am hoping the CRJ-900 show up on CLT/PHL again this year, but we will have to see.

This is pretty early to be seeing so many Feb changes, but hopefully it means they are working ahead this year.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:30 pm

topguncnod wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
UA is adding CVG-IAH mainline service from July 8 to July 31 using an A320.

DL is upguaging CVG-RDU from 2xCRJ to 2xCR9 effective February 7, appears to be a year round change. CVG-IAH/DFW also appear to be getting Saturday service fro Jan/Feb, not sure if that will stick, though.


The RDU upguage is definitely welcome. Did you notice any other changes? A quick check and I noticed CVG-ORD is all CRJ in mid Feb. I don’t think that’s normal...

Quick update, the RDU upguage is now loaded for September 10-Novemeber 2 (sometimes as 1xCR7/1xCR9) and will start again on December 17, running through the end of the schedule.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:05 pm

Also, the CVG SkyClub will be getting renovations done according to Twitter support. I will be interested to see what they actually plan on overhauling in the lounge. It is pretty nice already if you ask me, but it definitely still has the Crown Room feel.
 
Shields
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:04 am

cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
UA is adding CVG-IAH mainline service from July 8 to July 31 using an A320.

DL is upguaging CVG-RDU from 2xCRJ to 2xCR9 effective February 7, appears to be a year round change. CVG-IAH/DFW also appear to be getting Saturday service fro Jan/Feb, not sure if that will stick, though.


The RDU upguage is definitely welcome. Did you notice any other changes? A quick check and I noticed CVG-ORD is all CRJ in mid Feb. I don’t think that’s normal...

Quick update, the RDU upguage is now loaded for September 10-Novemeber 2 (sometimes as 1xCR7/1xCR9) and will start again on December 17, running through the end of the schedule.


Excellent news to see RDU upgraded to CR7/9! This is long overdue, given that CLE/IND/RDU see some degree of 2-class RJ service to RDU.

I've noticed that several of Delta's morning west coast departures from CVG are timed such that connections at CVG are not possible (e.g., LAS/SEA/SFO/LAX). These flights all depart before 9:00 am. I am hopeful that these flights can stand alone on O/D or connections on the SEA/LAX end. The morning bank sees far and away the mosts mainline.

Thanks for the good finds, CvgComair!
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4967
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:35 am

boscmh wrote:
^ I admire what PIT is doing, but I'm not sure that gamble is going to pay off for them (along with their QR cargo deal)

CMH still has bigger fish to fry at the moment as well - SFO and SEA need to happen asap. Period. Then if they can scrounge up the funds for it, I'd say DL to AMS would be the next priority


Oh yeah, I think those should be the targets and I still figure a CMH TPAC flight has a snowball's chance of happening, I just found interesting that a midsized, "non-brand name city" was able to actually land a TPAC flight of any kind.
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September11
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:38 am

Southwest's CMH-OAK daily nonstop route exists... For about 2 years now?

CMH-SEA on Alaska, will it happen?
CMH-SFO on United, will it happen?
CMH-SAN on Southwest, will it happen?
Last edited by September11 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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brooklynchris13
Posts: 262
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:43 am

Shields wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:

The RDU upguage is definitely welcome. Did you notice any other changes? A quick check and I noticed CVG-ORD is all CRJ in mid Feb. I don’t think that’s normal...

Quick update, the RDU upguage is now loaded for September 10-Novemeber 2 (sometimes as 1xCR7/1xCR9) and will start again on December 17, running through the end of the schedule.


Excellent news to see RDU upgraded to CR7/9! This is long overdue, given that CLE/IND/RDU see some degree of 2-class RJ service to RDU.

I've noticed that several of Delta's morning west coast departures from CVG are timed such that connections at CVG are not possible (e.g., LAS/SEA/SFO/LAX). These flights all depart before 9:00 am. I am hopeful that these flights can stand alone on O/D or connections on the SEA/LAX end. The morning bank sees far and away the mosts mainline.

Thanks for the good finds, CvgComair!


You can add CMH to that list as well, with CR7 and CR9 service.

As far as PIT and their one off Asian flight, it is nice I suppose but I can't see it really leading to anything long-term other than interest generation. I agree with my fellow CMH fans about the priorities being west coast, perhaps some other missing links (BDL?; MKE mainline; etc.), and an European destination. One other thing I have noticed is a serious upguaging on DLs part at CMH. Hopefully that trend continues. I have not looked into Southwest's new schedule, does anyone know if they have increased their 738 or 738MAX flying into CMH? One other item, is there any news about OneJet? Are they around or aren't they?
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4967
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:27 am

September11 wrote:
Southwest's CMH-OAK daily nonstop route exists... For about 2 years now?

CMH-SEA on Alaska, will it happen?
CMH-SFO on United, will it happen?
CMH-SAN on Southwest, will it happen?


Nardone seemed to indicate he leans toward taking care of the airlines who currently serve his airport, so I'd guess DL would do SEA if he holds to that credo, but the others line up right. AS could do both of SEA and SFO, too.

brooklynchris13 wrote:
[One other thing I have noticed is a serious upguaging on DLs part at CMH. Hopefully that trend continues. I have not looked into Southwest's new schedule, does anyone know if they have increased their 738 or 738MAX flying into CMH? One other item, is there any news about OneJet? Are they around or aren't they?


I haven't had the chance to comb through DL's schedule for a while- is their upgauge bigger mainline to ATL, RJ to mainline to DTW/MSP, small to large RJs on the point-to-point stuff, or a mix of the above?

I don't know if WN's running more MAXes to CMH, but F9 seems to run a decent amount of NEOs to CMH in spite of its relatively light service. I saw the one with the bear on the tail a couple months ago that Gemini made a model of.

(edit- Wow, you're not kidding about DL. The morning CMH-MSP is an M90 for a few more days, then runs on a 738 for about a month before landing on a 739 in July, which is when CUN goes 739 as well, and the evening MSP flight bingo balls around a few types before settling on a 319.)
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cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:49 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
One other item, is there any news about OneJet? Are they around or aren't they?

OneJet has suspended the CMH-MKE route.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:38 pm

I don't know if I have mentioned this on here, but Amazon will be switching over its CVG-PVD flight to BDL effective August 1.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 262
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:04 am

DeltaRules wrote:
September11 wrote:
Southwest's CMH-OAK daily nonstop route exists... For about 2 years now?

CMH-SEA on Alaska, will it happen?
CMH-SFO on United, will it happen?
CMH-SAN on Southwest, will it happen?


Nardone seemed to indicate he leans toward taking care of the airlines who currently serve his airport, so I'd guess DL would do SEA if he holds to that credo, but the others line up right. AS could do both of SEA and SFO, too.

brooklynchris13 wrote:
[One other thing I have noticed is a serious upguaging on DLs part at CMH. Hopefully that trend continues. I have not looked into Southwest's new schedule, does anyone know if they have increased their 738 or 738MAX flying into CMH? One other item, is there any news about OneJet? Are they around or aren't they?


I haven't had the chance to comb through DL's schedule for a while- is their upgauge bigger mainline to ATL, RJ to mainline to DTW/MSP, small to large RJs on the point-to-point stuff, or a mix of the above?

I don't know if WN's running more MAXes to CMH, but F9 seems to run a decent amount of NEOs to CMH in spite of its relatively light service. I saw the one with the bear on the tail a couple months ago that Gemini made a model of.

(edit- Wow, you're not kidding about DL. The morning CMH-MSP is an M90 for a few more days, then runs on a 738 for about a month before landing on a 739 in July, which is when CUN goes 739 as well, and the evening MSP flight bingo balls around a few types before settling on a 319.)


So now you have me really curious... for August 20th, a Monday, DL at CMH:
ATL: 1x738; 5x739; 2xMD88
BOS: 3xE170
DTW: 2x E170; 4xCR7
JFK: 3x E170
LAX: 1x 738
LGA: 1xE170; 5x175
MSP: 2x320; 2xCR9
RDU: 2xCR7

It looks like a noticeable increase in seats in almost every market, especially MSP and ATL and, even more interesting, every flight has First Class! This really makes me wonder if they have not just won some sort of big corporate contract that involves CMH. It also matches the comments DL made at that recent forum about increasing the size of their aircraft at CMH being a priority. Going to be interesting to see where this goes.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4967
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:26 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
September11 wrote:
Southwest's CMH-OAK daily nonstop route exists... For about 2 years now?

CMH-SEA on Alaska, will it happen?
CMH-SFO on United, will it happen?
CMH-SAN on Southwest, will it happen?


Nardone seemed to indicate he leans toward taking care of the airlines who currently serve his airport, so I'd guess DL would do SEA if he holds to that credo, but the others line up right. AS could do both of SEA and SFO, too.

brooklynchris13 wrote:
[One other thing I have noticed is a serious upguaging on DLs part at CMH. Hopefully that trend continues. I have not looked into Southwest's new schedule, does anyone know if they have increased their 738 or 738MAX flying into CMH? One other item, is there any news about OneJet? Are they around or aren't they?


I haven't had the chance to comb through DL's schedule for a while- is their upgauge bigger mainline to ATL, RJ to mainline to DTW/MSP, small to large RJs on the point-to-point stuff, or a mix of the above?

I don't know if WN's running more MAXes to CMH, but F9 seems to run a decent amount of NEOs to CMH in spite of its relatively light service. I saw the one with the bear on the tail a couple months ago that Gemini made a model of.

(edit- Wow, you're not kidding about DL. The morning CMH-MSP is an M90 for a few more days, then runs on a 738 for about a month before landing on a 739 in July, which is when CUN goes 739 as well, and the evening MSP flight bingo balls around a few types before settling on a 319.)


So now you have me really curious... for August 20th, a Monday, DL at CMH:
ATL: 1x738; 5x739; 2xMD88
BOS: 3xE170
DTW: 2x E170; 4xCR7
JFK: 3x E170
LAX: 1x 738
LGA: 1xE170; 5x175
MSP: 2x320; 2xCR9
RDU: 2xCR7

It looks like a noticeable increase in seats in almost every market, especially MSP and ATL and, even more interesting, every flight has First Class! This really makes me wonder if they have not just won some sort of big corporate contract that involves CMH. It also matches the comments DL made at that recent forum about increasing the size of their aircraft at CMH being a priority. Going to be interesting to see where this goes.


ATL is glaring because the typical "placeholder" schedule I've seen a ways out is all M88/M90. I've never seen a schedule like ^that^ one outside Thanksgiving where, in recent years, they've run 3 757s or 739s in the days around the holiday. 5 739s today would've been comparable to 5 757s 15-20 years ago and that never happened; they typically had five segments period, of which 2-3 were 757s and the balance were M88s or 727s.

You may be onto something with regard to a corporate contract. I wonder if that's why DL had a guy at the Metropolitan Club event (on the panel, no less, unlike WN who was just in the crowd).
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Midwestindy
Posts: 4154
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:00 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
September11 wrote:
Southwest's CMH-OAK daily nonstop route exists... For about 2 years now?

CMH-SEA on Alaska, will it happen?
CMH-SFO on United, will it happen?
CMH-SAN on Southwest, will it happen?


Nardone seemed to indicate he leans toward taking care of the airlines who currently serve his airport, so I'd guess DL would do SEA if he holds to that credo, but the others line up right. AS could do both of SEA and SFO, too.

brooklynchris13 wrote:
[One other thing I have noticed is a serious upguaging on DLs part at CMH. Hopefully that trend continues. I have not looked into Southwest's new schedule, does anyone know if they have increased their 738 or 738MAX flying into CMH? One other item, is there any news about OneJet? Are they around or aren't they?


I haven't had the chance to comb through DL's schedule for a while- is their upgauge bigger mainline to ATL, RJ to mainline to DTW/MSP, small to large RJs on the point-to-point stuff, or a mix of the above?

I don't know if WN's running more MAXes to CMH, but F9 seems to run a decent amount of NEOs to CMH in spite of its relatively light service. I saw the one with the bear on the tail a couple months ago that Gemini made a model of.

(edit- Wow, you're not kidding about DL. The morning CMH-MSP is an M90 for a few more days, then runs on a 738 for about a month before landing on a 739 in July, which is when CUN goes 739 as well, and the evening MSP flight bingo balls around a few types before settling on a 319.)


So now you have me really curious... for August 20th, a Monday, DL at CMH:
ATL: 1x738; 5x739; 2xMD88
BOS: 3xE170
DTW: 2x E170; 4xCR7
JFK: 3x E170
LAX: 1x 738
LGA: 1xE170; 5x175
MSP: 2x320; 2xCR9
RDU: 2xCR7

It looks like a noticeable increase in seats in almost every market, especially MSP and ATL and, even more interesting, every flight has First Class! This really makes me wonder if they have not just won some sort of big corporate contract that involves CMH. It also matches the comments DL made at that recent forum about increasing the size of their aircraft at CMH being a priority. Going to be interesting to see where this goes.


I'm pretty sure that ATL schedule is a one off schedule for two weeks, anyway though what is the status of mainline to DTW?
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cvgcmisea
Posts: 2
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:04 am

@cvgcomair I am consistently impressed by your ability to pull data and find all of this information. I work for Amazon (consumer/retail) and I can’t even find the information that you do. I grew up flying out of CVG, but SEA is home now. What do you see as the eventuality for Amazon in CVG plus the spillover effects? I’ve been trying to figure it out but haven’t been able to put it together, especially with the unknown of HQ2 (which I’m sure will be in the Eastern Time Zone, but beyond that no clue...I’ll find out from the New York Times. like everyone else)

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