DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:58 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
NoTime wrote:
I believe one of our resident CMH-posters is a member of the Columbus Metropolitan Club... perhaps they were in attendance and can share some additional info.

A leg connecting John Glenn Columbus International Airport and Rickenbacker International Airport is in contention for the first “proof of concept” short track for Virgin Hyperloop One’s international operations.

...

And if it's going to the expense to build that much track, it should become a segment of a fully functioning route later on, he said Wednesday at the Columbus Metropolitan Club forum.


https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/ne ... cargo.html

I remain decidedly unconvinced about the viability of the project, but I'm always interested in hearing how it's progressing.
Of all the places to connect, why CMH-LCK?


I was on a longer vacation a couple years ago in DAB and thought about coming home for a couple days to go to a friend's annual fly-in and considered LCK, DAY, and CVG on G4 for a quick trip from SFB. The trip didn't happen and one of the disqualifiers for LCK was there was no Enterprise shuttle from the nearest location to the airport on Sundays (CVG would've been the airport of choice- I could've been up and back in 36 hours).

The only thing I can think of is they need a testbed and, by connecting LCK to CMH, travelers could then connect to the AirConnect service to downtown, have easier access to a larger chunk of town or much more choice of rental cars.
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DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:10 am

brooklynchris13 wrote:
**Important CMH Milestone**. From the agenda of next week's meeting:

"With nearly 751,000 passengers traveling through John Glenn International, June was the busiest month in CMH’s history. June also marks the end of the busiest first six months ever at CMH. Passenger activity at Rickenbacker is also performing at an all-time high, up 22 percent in the first half of 2018 versus 2017."

Air Canada (3.4% ); Delta (5.9%); Southwest (7.4% ); and United(7.7%) saw increases at CMH. While American had a very slight decrease (.02%) and Frontier had a huge (but not shocking) decrease. (51.%). Spirit was just under 32,000 passengers for the month. American and Delta both had fewer operations for the month, so the Delta pattern of a slight decrease in flights but increase in aircraft size (739 to MSP!) continues.

Given the trends, unless something happens with the economy, it looks increasingly likely that CMH will pass 8 million passengers this year.

At LCK, both Allegiant's passenger operations and the cargo operations showed very positive gains with cargo up 25% and passenger traffic up 11.7%. Allegiant is just above Spirit in passenger numbers.

Agenda with numbers is here:
https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... -final.pdf


The order across both airports in terms of pax carried goes WN, AA, DL, UA, G4, NK, F9, AC, J1. NK looks to be averaging just under 34,000 passengers/month in its first 4 1/2 months.

Interesting that UA and F9 have lower market share as compared to WN/DL/AA but the highest LF%. Doing more with less?
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brooklynchris13
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:00 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
**Important CMH Milestone**. From the agenda of next week's meeting:

"With nearly 751,000 passengers traveling through John Glenn International, June was the busiest month in CMH’s history. June also marks the end of the busiest first six months ever at CMH. Passenger activity at Rickenbacker is also performing at an all-time high, up 22 percent in the first half of 2018 versus 2017."

Air Canada (3.4% ); Delta (5.9%); Southwest (7.4% ); and United(7.7%) saw increases at CMH. While American had a very slight decrease (.02%) and Frontier had a huge (but not shocking) decrease. (51.%). Spirit was just under 32,000 passengers for the month. American and Delta both had fewer operations for the month, so the Delta pattern of a slight decrease in flights but increase in aircraft size (739 to MSP!) continues.

Given the trends, unless something happens with the economy, it looks increasingly likely that CMH will pass 8 million passengers this year.

At LCK, both Allegiant's passenger operations and the cargo operations showed very positive gains with cargo up 25% and passenger traffic up 11.7%. Allegiant is just above Spirit in passenger numbers.

Agenda with numbers is here:
https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... -final.pdf


The order across both airports in terms of pax carried goes WN, AA, DL, UA, G4, NK, F9, AC, J1. NK looks to be averaging just under 34,000 passengers/month in its first 4 1/2 months.

Interesting that UA and F9 have lower market share as compared to WN/DL/AA but the highest LF%. Doing more with less?



I think you are absolutely right about that. F9 has been sending the 321 to CMH at times and UA must be cramming people in the 145s and 175s. I would actually saw that the next aircraft upgrade I am waiting for at CMH is EWR on UA. Maybe we can get mainline there on a consistent basis?

As far as the Hyperloop goes. I do not wish to sound like a cranky old fart, but I just do not see that working out as a viable long term mass transportation solution. Just buying the right-of-way alone will be crazy expensive. Then you have the technology and ensuring that it is effective and then cost-effective. I can not imagine that it will ever get to the point that it will be profitable based on all of the expense involved in creating it. As for a link from CMH to LCK? That would probably be a $100 million project. To what end? For what purpose? I am going to put the hyper loop on the backest of back-burners until I see something that indicates it may be viable.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
papatango
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:54 pm

Hopefully we will hear something soon ref Delta doing CMH-AMS!
 
Shields
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:50 pm

ICYMI: United has added mainline to CVG-IAH. 1x/A320. Not sure how much longer it lasts, but, of course, great to see more mainline at CVG. United has an impressive presence at CVG, with every flight operated on dual-class equipment.
 
jplatts
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:07 pm

marvinanderson1 wrote:
I believe AA will add CAK-DFW nonstop within a year. Just a hunch.


I agree that AA adding CAK-DFW nonstop service could happen in the near future since CAK is one of the few commercial airports with nonstop service to another Texas airport that isn't currently served nonstop from DFW and since AA has its main hub at DFW.
 
jplatts
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:01 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
CVG June numbers are out, 4297028 pax YTD, up 10.61% for May and 17.05% YTD.

Growth has definitely slowed now that WN has been service for a complete year. Given G4/F9 upcoming fleet shortages and subsequent reductions at CVG this fall, growth is going to taper more than expected. Given that, I do not expect to hit 9 million this year, ~8.6/8.7 million is probably more realistic now.


That’s too bad, but with higher fuel prices and the erratic schedules of F9 and G4, is that really surprising? Hopefully WN adds more destinations in the coming years to pick up the slack, along with continued DL expansion.


Here is how CVG compares to similarly sized markets by number of domestic passengers per year:
SAT: 8,610,000 domestic passengers per year
PDX: 18,297,000 domestic passengers per year
PIT: 8,627,000 domestic passengers per year
LBE: 283,000 domestic passengers per year
SMF: 10,813,000 domestic passengers per year
LAS: 43,113,000 domestic passengers per year
CVG: 7,651,000 domestic passengers per year
MCI: 11,228,000 domestic passengers per year
AUS: 13,804,000 domestic passengers per year
CMH: 7,409,000 domestic passengers per year
LCK: 281,000 domestic passengers per year
CLE: 8,952,000 domestic passengers per year
CAK: 1,076,000 domestic passengers per year
IND: 8,799,000 domestic passengers per year
BNA: 14,056,000 domestic passengers per year
RDU: 11,275,000 domestic passengers per year

I agree that WN and DL can both further expand at CVG, and CVG is also in a big enough market to support further expansion by both WN and DL. There are also some primary commercial airports in markets similar in size to CVG such as AUS, MCI, BNA, PDX, RDU, and SMF that carry significantly more domestic passengers per year than CVG does.
 
papatango
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:41 pm

Any updates or news from the CRAA meeting on Tue Jul 24?
 
flyinryan99
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:59 pm

For June of 2019, TOL Pax Stats look like:

American Airlines operated by Envoy, Skywest, PSA - 5,211 Passengers On; 5,325 Passengers Off (74.8% over June 2017)
Allegiant Air - 4,148 Passengers On; 4,176 Passengers Off (9.3% over June 2017)
Total Airport - 9,429 Passengers On; 9,687 Passengers Off (36.5% over June 2017)

Numbers could have been a lot better but the PSA meltdown resulted in 30 cancellations which would have increased passenger counts by roughly 1,200.

Other tidbits about TOL:

- 2018 YTD Airport Revenues are $2,529,576 which is up 41.4% over YTD 2017
- 2018 YTD Airport Revenues outpace expenses by $180,858
- 2018 YTD Passenger Facility Charges are $283,006 which is up 33% over YTD 2017

I am expecting a positive July and August, however, September will be a down month on lower capacity. October on should be pretty flat except for maybe slight growth from American with upguaged aircraft to CRJ-700 on the CLT route. No other news to speak of as of now.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:09 pm

What in the world would a Delta 757 or A321 be doing sitting on the East ramp at Wright-Patterson? I just drove by there and very clearly could see it in the distance. Judging by the height off the ground and length of the plane, it was one of the two.

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cledaybuck
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:24 pm

Looks like another swing and a miss for Ohio airports as PIT-LHR gets added on BA despite PIT having several European options.
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DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:46 pm

It's a DL A321 at WPAFB. There's also an Omni 777 inbound from SEA.

cledaybuck wrote:
Looks like another swing and a miss for Ohio airports as PIT-LHR gets added on BA despite PIT having several European options.


PIT's going to continue to get service they otherwise wouldn't as long as Christina Cassotis can walk out to the money tree and shake out $100 bills. I can't help but wonder if something will have to give there between DL/WW/DE/now BA.

I don't think CMH was getting BA, though the (slim) chances of AA running a 757 to LHR may have taken a hit.
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WWads
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:52 pm

People need to get over the pipe dream of CMH TATL service. It's not happening. Period. When every other surrounding airport gets service but CMH doesn't, there's obviously a very good reason.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:56 pm

WWads wrote:
People need to get over the pipe dream of CMH TATL service. It's not happening. Period. When every other surrounding airport gets service but CMH doesn't, there's obviously a very good reason.


Yeah, and that reason is some combination of local/state government/business/airport not wanting to shell out enough money to do it (it sounds to me like it's the former). It sounds like the airline is willing to do it...if they pony up.
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papatango
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:53 pm

Maybe Delta was waiting to see what BA was hoing to do.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:02 pm

Somebody in the BA thread suggested Delta might eventually end PIT-CDG as result of this. That would be an interesting and, perhaps favorable, twist.

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cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:56 pm

I saw on another forum that the production of the 328J will be resuming. I wonder if Ultimate would be interested in acquiring some, as the availability of suitable 30-seaters has been a huge challenge for them.

DeltaRules wrote:
Somebody in the BA thread suggested Delta might eventually end PIT-CDG as result of this. That would be an interesting and, perhaps favorable, twist.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

Agreed, perhaps it could be shifted to CMH?
 
WWads
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:04 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
WWads wrote:
People need to get over the pipe dream of CMH TATL service. It's not happening. Period. When every other surrounding airport gets service but CMH doesn't, there's obviously a very good reason.


Yeah, and that reason is some combination of local/state government/business/airport not wanting to shell out enough money to do it (it sounds to me like it's the former). It sounds like the airline is willing to do it...if they pony up.


Or it's that CMH as a market just isn't worthy of a TATL nonstop.
 
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flymco753
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:49 pm

If CMH gets TATL, it'll be something like WW or FI to start. Right now, CMH is a steal as the largest market without TATL.
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cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:05 am

Apparently CVG is going to be building a rooftop restaurant in Concourse A during 2019. I know they are out of room for additional concessions, but this seems like quite an ambitious project!

It seems like the expansion of Concourse A is really needed if they have to put concessions on the roof...
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:06 am

flymco753 wrote:
If CMH gets TATL, it'll be something like WW or FI to start. Right now, CMH is a steal as the largest market without TATL.
Both reportedly visited Columbus and passed. This was sometime last year before they announced Cleveland and Cincinnati.

Delta might be the only one who agrees with your thinking.

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ADrum23
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:13 am

cvgComair wrote:
Apparently CVG is going to be building a rooftop restaurant in Concourse A during 2019. I know they are out of room for additional concessions, but this seems like quite an ambitious project! It seems like the expansion of Concourse A is really needed if they have to put concessions on the roof...


Where are they going to put that?

When it comes time to replace the terminal next decade, I’d like to see DL build a skydeck in their new skyclub.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:34 am

ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Apparently CVG is going to be building a rooftop restaurant in Concourse A during 2019. I know they are out of room for additional concessions, but this seems like quite an ambitious project! It seems like the expansion of Concourse A is really needed if they have to put concessions on the roof...


Where are they going to put that?

It think here on the back of the A1/2 boarding area, but I am not 100% sure. Unless someone else has heard more, it might be awhile before specific details come out.
Image
 
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AirportRival
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:14 am

cvgComair wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Apparently CVG is going to be building a rooftop restaurant in Concourse A during 2019. I know they are out of room for additional concessions, but this seems like quite an ambitious project! It seems like the expansion of Concourse A is really needed if they have to put concessions on the roof...


Where are they going to put that?

It think here on the back of the A1/2 boarding area, but I am not 100% sure. Unless someone else has heard more, it might be awhile before specific details come out.
Image


That would be pretty cool. It would also be neat to see them repurpose the old Delta Crown room.
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brooklynchris13
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:42 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
If CMH gets TATL, it'll be something like WW or FI to start. Right now, CMH is a steal as the largest market without TATL.
Both reportedly visited Columbus and passed. This was sometime last year before they announced Cleveland and Cincinnati.

Delta might be the only one who agrees with your thinking.

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I do not think that is surprising, nor is it really a bad thing. CMH got burned with the "Please give us a hub!" thing before, ended up with Skybus, and well, we see how that turned out. At this point, as CMH continues to build passengers and interest, as the local economy is about to become the largest in the state (sorry CVG and CLE), and the interest in the area grows, the TATL flight will come. It may not happen quite as quickly as we like, but it will come in time. I truly believe that all of this upguage on the part of DL is part of the plan to eventually serve AMS or CDG from here. I think we would all agree that waiting another year for a DL flight to a major hub is worth it over a 3x a week flight on WOW, or AmsterdamExpress, or Bob's Bi-Plane to Brussels. Further, the reality is that there is a tourism demand in Cincinnati and Cleveland which is just not matched here yet. Pittsburgh is also not a shocking before Columbus TATL destination. But, we will get there. Not tomorrow. But maybe that is not the worst thing ever.
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jtwall
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:27 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
If CMH gets TATL, it'll be something like WW or FI to start. Right now, CMH is a steal as the largest market without TATL.
Both reportedly visited Columbus and passed. This was sometime last year before they announced Cleveland and Cincinnati.

Delta might be the only one who agrees with your thinking.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


I do not think that is surprising, nor is it really a bad thing. CMH got burned with the "Please give us a hub!" thing before, ended up with Skybus, and well, we see how that turned out. At this point, as CMH continues to build passengers and interest, as the local economy is about to become the largest in the state (sorry CVG and CLE), and the interest in the area grows, the TATL flight will come. It may not happen quite as quickly as we like, but it will come in time. I truly believe that all of this upguage on the part of DL is part of the plan to eventually serve AMS or CDG from here. I think we would all agree that waiting another year for a DL flight to a major hub is worth it over a 3x a week flight on WOW, or AmsterdamExpress, or Bob's Bi-Plane to Brussels. Further, the reality is that there is a tourism demand in Cincinnati and Cleveland which is just not matched here yet. Pittsburgh is also not a shocking before Columbus TATL destination. But, we will get there. Not tomorrow. But maybe that is not the worst thing ever.


The Cincinnati economy grew just as fast as CMH last year, and the Cincinnati economy grew to become the largest in the State of Ohio. Not sure what date you're pointing to.

Source: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/ ... 703487001/
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:29 pm

Delta is now saying CVG-XNA was cut due to expectations of rising fuel costs. Per XNA airport, they are trying to get Delta to resume service next year at a 2-3x/wk frequency. This is pretty interestingly, considering the Monday/Friday flights are routinely sold out, while Tues/Wed/Thurs are very empty. This would actually be a good way to keep the route going and they could probably even make it work with a CRJ-700/900. https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/fox-24 ... 1311997597
Last edited by cvgComair on Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
steeler83
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:40 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Somebody in the BA thread suggested Delta might eventually end PIT-CDG as result of this. That would be an interesting and, perhaps favorable, twist.

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I saw people stating that as well. I wouldn't be surprised if PIT-CDG is dropped, but that route does tend to attract more leisure traffic and is seasonal, whereas BA will have 4x weekly service year-round and attract business travelers. That seems to be the opposing argument to that statement. I guess we shall wait and see...
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Dfthu
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:47 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
What in the world would a Delta 757 or A321 be doing sitting on the East ramp at Wright-Patterson? I just drove by there and very clearly could see it in the distance. Judging by the height off the ground and length of the plane, it was one of the two.


It was for the Delta Dream flight, which I was on. Flight 9770. We took a A321 to the AFB and toured a C-17 and visited the Museum of the Air Force. I had to leave early because I had to get home back to MSP but the rest of the kids got to takeoff back to ATL.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:37 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Delta is now saying CVG-XNA was cut due to expectations of rising fuel costs. Per XNA airport, they are trying to get Delta to resume service next year at a 2-3x/wk frequency. This is pretty interestingly, considering the Monday/Friday flights are routinely sold out, while Tues/Wed/Thurs are very empty. This would actually be a good way to keep the route going and they could probably even make it work with a CRJ-700/900. https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/fox-24 ... 1311997597


The article states that the route was cut because it was unprofitable and has been in jeopardy for years. It only states that Delta, as of late, has started cutting underperforming routes due to rising fuel costs.
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cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:39 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Delta is now saying CVG-XNA was cut due to expectations of rising fuel costs. Per XNA airport, they are trying to get Delta to resume service next year at a 2-3x/wk frequency. This is pretty interestingly, considering the Monday/Friday flights are routinely sold out, while Tues/Wed/Thurs are very empty. This would actually be a good way to keep the route going and they could probably even make it work with a CRJ-700/900. https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/fox-24 ... 1311997597

The article states that the route was cut because it was unprofitable and has been in jeopardy for years. It only states that Delta, as of late, has started cutting underperforming routes due to rising fuel costs.

Uhhhh, since it has been unprofitable for years, rising fuel prices is the reason for the cut... Before they were willing to take the loss for P&G, but rising fuel prices have made it more difficult to justify the losses. If anything, the flight has been gaining more revenue since connections are decreasing and PDEW is increasing.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:56 am

The Ohio Aviation Association is going to push hard for a statewide air service incentive fund from both Ohio gubernatorial candidates because, as the person with whom I spoke from OAA today said, the state is "getting its clock cleaned" by service from places like PIT and IND. It would cover all major airports in Ohio except CVG (for obvious geographical reasons). With that in mind, here's more information:

OAA Public Policy Agenda: https://ohaa.memberclicks.net/assets/do ... ebsite.pdf
OAA candidate survey; Mike DeWine response: https://ohaa.memberclicks.net/assets/do ... DeWine.pdf

I'm not going to post Cordray's response, as it was very wet noodle and gave generic replies. (At least DeWine's camp "tried".) Whether any of this actually happens would remain to be seen.

Dfthu wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
What in the world would a Delta 757 or A321 be doing sitting on the East ramp at Wright-Patterson? I just drove by there and very clearly could see it in the distance. Judging by the height off the ground and length of the plane, it was one of the two.


It was for the Delta Dream flight, which I was on. Flight 9770. We took a A321 to the AFB and toured a C-17 and visited the Museum of the Air Force. I had to leave early because I had to get home back to MSP but the rest of the kids got to takeoff back to ATL.


Thanks for the response. You might have met a colleague of mine who works on base with the C-17 fleet and is also a flight instructor.
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ncflyer
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:08 am

Pennsylvania/Pittsburgh somehow overcomes this but it really hurts OH that it has three large cities that compete against each other. Indiana especially can really focus efforts, even at the state level, on Indianopolis. Cleveland and Cincinnati, And to lesser degree Columbus, meantime get hammered time and time again by changes to Ohio spending, tax codes and state laws That favor rural areas. Exhibit A is public transit, Ohio is at the bottom of per capital funding here, and it wasn’t this way until recently.

This is a long winded way of saying — good luck OAA you will need it. Good luck picking favorites between the three Cs. It’s brutal.
 
bigred10k
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:45 am

Ohio's long-term aviation planning has turned out to be terrible for the state. At one point, when each of our major cities had hubs (CVG - Delta, CMH - America West, CLE - Continental/United and DAY - Piedmont), the strategy seemed like it had worked. With consolidation, however, CVG effectively lost its hub to MSP and DTW. DAY and CMH lost to PIT, and CLE lost to ORD/IAD. But looking back now, in the context of airline consolidation, it would have been much wiser to have just three main airports in Ohio (combined CVG/DAY, combined CLE/CAK, and CMH).

With respect to DAY/CVG, a single airport had been proposed between Dayton and Cincinnati. Both cities were too proud to share an airport, so we ended up with two airports located far away from where most of recent the population growth has occurred in Southwest Ohio -- the north suburbs of Cincinnati/south suburbs of Dayton. Kasich's idea to have a combined airport was right in that sense, but his proposed location in Wilimington was awful.
 
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zackary747
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:50 am

ncflyer wrote:
Pennsylvania/Pittsburgh somehow overcomes this but it really hurts OH that it has three large cities that compete against each other. Indiana especially can really focus efforts, even at the state level, on Indianopolis. Cleveland and Cincinnati, And to lesser degree Columbus, meantime get hammered time and time again by changes to Ohio spending, tax codes and state laws That favor rural areas. Exhibit A is public transit, Ohio is at the bottom of per capital funding here, and it wasn’t this way until recently.

This is a long winded way of saying — good luck OAA you will need it. Good luck picking favorites between the three Cs. It’s brutal.


You hit the nail on the head. Midwest states aren't strong enough to handle multiple big cities thanks to obvious weather reasons and the power of the south and west coast. Ohio is really hurting in that regard. When you look at the Midwest. Indiana focuses all big city efforts on Indianapolis. Illinois goes to Chicago, Minnesota goes to the MSP area, and of course Michigan is focusing on Detriot. Yet, we have Ohio here experiencing the cannibalism effect of having to much city and not enough to go around.

Pennsylvania is an exception thanks to geographical diversity. Philly is east coast while Pittsburgh is much closer to that Midwest rust belt region. Take the ocean away from Philly and the cannibalism effect will happen to them as well.
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flyguy89
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:16 am

bigred10k wrote:
Ohio's long-term aviation planning has turned out to be terrible for the state. At one point, when each of our major cities had hubs (CVG - Delta, CMH - America West, CLE - Continental/United and DAY - Piedmont), the strategy seemed like it had worked. With consolidation, however, CVG effectively lost its hub to MSP and DTW. DAY and CMH lost to PIT, and CLE lost to ORD/IAD. But looking back now, in the context of airline consolidation, it would have been much wiser to have just three main airports in Ohio (combined CVG/DAY, combined CLE/CAK, and CMH).

With respect to DAY/CVG, a single airport had been proposed between Dayton and Cincinnati. Both cities were too proud to share an airport, so we ended up with two airports located far away from where most of recent the population growth has occurred in Southwest Ohio -- the north suburbs of Cincinnati/south suburbs of Dayton. Kasich's idea to have a combined airport was right in that sense, but his proposed location in Wilimington was awful.

I honestly don't know what you all are talking about. The current air infrastructure in Ohio works perfectly fine. CVG, CMH and CLE airports continue growing and, going hand-in-hand with market dynamics, airports like CAK, DAY and TOL now serve smaller, hyper-local O&D markets...what's not working there?

While certainly the connectivity having all the hubs provided was great, it can be argued they greatly distorted the Cincinnati and Cleveland markets by pushing local traffic to DAY and CAK respectively, which was not efficient.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:26 pm

Interesting interview with the CVG CEO, http://www.rcnky.com/articles/2018/07/2 ... th-airport. Here are some of the highlights:

- She still expects the airport to hit 9 million passengers for 2018

- The airport is currently working to restore nonstop service to PDX

- GE Aviation will be building a manufacturing facility at the airport (The common use cargo-facility will be torn down in 2018/2019, I wonder if this is where this is going...)

- WOW's average LF out of CVG has been 99%, no word on why it is seasonal

- Amazon environmental approvals are in the final stages and construction is set to begin "soon"

- Initial master plan reports and community input meetings are around the corner
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:33 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Interesting interview with the CVG CEO, http://www.rcnky.com/articles/2018/07/2 ... th-airport. Here are some of the highlights:

- She still expects the airport to hit 9 million passengers for 2018

- The airport is currently working to restore nonstop service to PDX

- GE Aviation will be building a manufacturing facility at the airport (The common use cargo-facility will be torn down in 2018/2019, I wonder if this is where this is going...)

- WOW's average LF out of CVG has been 99%, no word on why it is seasonal

- Amazon environmental approvals are in the final stages and construction is set to begin "soon"

- Initial master plan reports and community input meetings are around the corner


Didn't DL just go seasonal on SEA (cutting Jan/Feb)?
cvgComair wrote:
Delta is now saying CVG-XNA was cut due to expectations of rising fuel costs. Per XNA airport, they are trying to get Delta to resume service next year at a 2-3x/wk frequency.

Also I thought CVG-XNA was set to resume in March or April? So it was cut permanently
flyinryan99 wrote:
Total Airport - 9,429 Passengers On; 9,687 Passengers Off (36.5% over June 2017)

Was than an increase or decrease, sorry?
UA really needs to look into TOL. I know they just pulled out of a similiar AA dominat market in CMI, but TOL seems like a good opportunity for 3x daily CR2 to ORD. (Or as a long-shot once MIA/PBI/RSW/SRQ are added to IAD, IAD-TOL)
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cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:42 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Didn't DL just go seasonal on SEA (cutting Jan/Feb)?

Yes, it is suspended for the last 3 weeks of January and first 2 weeks of February. Not sure how they cannot make this route daily year-round, especially with the connecting options on both ends.

SumChristianus wrote:
Also I thought CVG-XNA was set to resume in March or April? So it was cut permanently

The resumption next year was removed from the schedule, but the responses from XNA make me think that might still be the plan. Only response I have gotten from DL is the generic "we constantly re-evaluate all our markets".
Last edited by cvgComair on Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:44 pm

ncflyer wrote:
This is a long winded way of saying — good luck OAA you will need it. Good luck picking favorites between the three Cs. It’s brutal.
Good news! They only need to pick between two!
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
ncflyer
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:49 pm

?? I don’t get it cledaybuck—- picking between two?? Because CVG is in Kentucky?
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:54 pm

ncflyer wrote:
?? I don’t get it cledaybuck—- picking between two?? Because CVG is in Kentucky?

Ohio/Cincinnati has no control or say in the operations of CVG. Kentucky has full ownership of CVG and will not be included in the OAA.
 
flyguy89
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:13 pm

cvgComair wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
Didn't DL just go seasonal on SEA (cutting Jan/Feb)?

Yes, it is suspended for the last 3 weeks of January and first 2 weeks of February. Not sure how they cannot make this route daily year-round, especially with the connecting options on both ends.

SEA is just not a strong market from CVG. For whatever reason, the ties between the two cities just aren't that strong. Same with PHX if you look at the capacity on CVG-PHX compared to peer markets.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:29 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
Didn't DL just go seasonal on SEA (cutting Jan/Feb)?

Yes, it is suspended for the last 3 weeks of January and first 2 weeks of February. Not sure how they cannot make this route daily year-round, especially with the connecting options on both ends.

SEA is just not a strong market from CVG. For whatever reason, the ties between the two cities just aren't that strong. Same with PHX if you look at the capacity on CVG-PHX compared to peer markets.


SEA-CVG is a huge route for Costco, Amazon, and P&G.
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flyinryan99
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:50 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
flyinryan99 wrote:
Total Airport - 9,429 Passengers On; 9,687 Passengers Off (36.5% over June 2017)

Was than an increase or decrease, sorry?
UA really needs to look into TOL. I know they just pulled out of a similiar AA dominat market in CMI, but TOL seems like a good opportunity for 3x daily CR2 to ORD. (Or as a long-shot once MIA/PBI/RSW/SRQ are added to IAD, IAD-TOL)


Increase. I agree with you that at least a couple of daily flights to ORD by UA should work. I don't get the hate/reluctance to fly into TOL. Their position in the NW Ohio and SE Michigan region isn't as large as it once was but I would think they could start to build that back with TOL. I don't know if UA will ever return to TOL. It would be nice to add roughly 75,000 pax per year back to TOL via another carrier.
 
ncflyer
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:53 pm

Ahhh. Ok makes sense. More reason the OAA is wasting their time. Why would downstate legislatures ever go for this? To put it in perspective I think the state spends about $15-$20mm on public transit.

cvgComair wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
?? I don’t get it cledaybuck—- picking between two?? Because CVG is in Kentucky?

Ohio/Cincinnati has no control or say in the operations of CVG. Kentucky has full ownership of CVG and will not be included in the OAA.
 
cvgComair
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:44 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Yes, it is suspended for the last 3 weeks of January and first 2 weeks of February. Not sure how they cannot make this route daily year-round, especially with the connecting options on both ends.

SEA is just not a strong market from CVG. For whatever reason, the ties between the two cities just aren't that strong. Same with PHX if you look at the capacity on CVG-PHX compared to peer markets.

I have a feeling it has more to do with competition on the route rather than a lack of demand. Two years ago I few CVG-SEA-HKG RT cheaper than the price of CVG-SEA RT booked on its own.

Midwestindy wrote:
SEA-CVG is a huge route for Costco, Amazon, and P&G.

Yep, I would not be surprised if a big chunk of passengers on the flight are business. It is just too expensive for leisure travelers most of the year. Flights to LAS/LAX/SFO/PHX/DEN can routinely be found for $100-200 RT, SEA runs about $300-800 depending on the time of year.
 
flyguy89
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:17 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Yes, it is suspended for the last 3 weeks of January and first 2 weeks of February. Not sure how they cannot make this route daily year-round, especially with the connecting options on both ends.

SEA is just not a strong market from CVG. For whatever reason, the ties between the two cities just aren't that strong. Same with PHX if you look at the capacity on CVG-PHX compared to peer markets.


SEA-CVG is a huge route for Costco, Amazon, and P&G.

That may be, but it's certainly not driving volume if you look at the PDEWs for CVG-SEA compared with IND-SEA or CLE-SEA.
 
WWads
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:30 pm

The GE facility at CVG is good news for the CDG flight.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The rest of Ohio - 2018

Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:44 am

ncflyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
?? I don’t get it cledaybuck—- picking between two?? Because CVG is in Kentucky?

Ohio/Cincinnati has no control or say in the operations of CVG. Kentucky has full ownership of CVG and will not be included in the OAA.


Ahhh. Ok makes sense. More reason the OAA is wasting their time. Why would downstate legislatures ever go for this? To put it in perspective I think the state spends about $15-$20mm on public transit.


My guess is because Indiana is bankrolling a flight to CDG and PIT has a magic money tree on property and OAA thinks they might be able to talk the new governor into the same thing for their airports to have the "prestige" of a TATL flight to keep up with the Joneses.

The woman I talked to yesterday had some FIRE. She'd fit in here quite well. ;)
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