Midwestindy wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

Ahhh. Ok makes sense. More reason the OAA is wasting their time. Why would downstate legislatures ever go for this? To put it in perspective I think the state spends about $15-$20mm on public transit.

My guess is because Indiana is bankrolling a flight to CDG and PIT has a magic money tree on property and OAA thinks they might be able to talk the new governor into the same thing for their airports to have the "prestige" of a TATL flight to keep up with the Joneses.

The woman I talked to yesterday had some FIRE. She'd fit in here quite well.

CMH needs to work on Domestic service bad, no service to SLC, SEA, SFO, and MCI are huge holes

SLC comes back next year: http://www.dispatch.com/business/201805 ... -next-year

DeltaRules wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

Ohio/Cincinnati has no control or say in the operations of CVG. Kentucky has full ownership of CVG and will not be included in the OAA.

Ahhh. Ok makes sense. More reason the OAA is wasting their time. Why would downstate legislatures ever go for this? To put it in perspective I think the state spends about $15-$20mm on public transit.

My guess is because Indiana is bankrolling a flight to CDG and PIT has a magic money tree on property and OAA thinks they might be able to talk the new governor into the same thing for their airports to have the "prestige" of a TATL flight to keep up with the Joneses.

The woman I talked to yesterday had some FIRE. She'd fit in here quite well.

CMH needs to work on Domestic service bad, no service to SLC, SEA, SFO, and MCI are huge holes

DeltaRules wrote:

The Ohio Aviation Association is going to push hard for a statewide air service incentive fund from both Ohio gubernatorial candidates because, as the person with whom I spoke from OAA today said, the state is "getting its clock cleaned" by service from places like PIT and IND. It would cover all major airports in Ohio except CVG (for obvious geographical reasons). With that in mind, here's more information:

OAA Public Policy Agenda: https://ohaa.memberclicks.net/assets/do ... ebsite.pdf
OAA candidate survey; Mike DeWine response: https://ohaa.memberclicks.net/assets/do ... DeWine.pdf

I'm not going to post Cordray's response, as it was very wet noodle and gave generic replies. (At least DeWine's camp "tried".) Whether any of this actually happens would remain to be seen.

Dfthu wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

What in the world would a Delta 757 or A321 be doing sitting on the East ramp at Wright-Patterson? I just drove by there and very clearly could see it in the distance. Judging by the height off the ground and length of the plane, it was one of the two.

It was for the Delta Dream flight, which I was on. Flight 9770. We took a A321 to the AFB and toured a C-17 and visited the Museum of the Air Force. I had to leave early because I had to get home back to MSP but the rest of the kids got to takeoff back to ATL.

Thanks for the response. You might have met a colleague of mine who works on base with the C-17 fleet and is also a flight instructor.

As another poster wrote, CVG is a Kentucky airport. But besides that, DAY can also be useful for folks who live near Sidney and Lima, they are quite far from both CVG and DTW, and DAY is an useful option for them. Also, several multiple carrier airports are good for passengers. It provides more competition. DAY was such a useful alternative for Cincinnati leisure passengers during the hub years.

flyguy89 wrote:

bigred10k wrote:

Ohio's long-term aviation planning has turned out to be terrible for the state. At one point, when each of our major cities had hubs (CVG - Delta, CMH - America West, CLE - Continental/United and DAY - Piedmont), the strategy seemed like it had worked. With consolidation, however, CVG effectively lost its hub to MSP and DTW. DAY and CMH lost to PIT, and CLE lost to ORD/IAD. But looking back now, in the context of airline consolidation, it would have been much wiser to have just three main airports in Ohio (combined CVG/DAY, combined CLE/CAK, and CMH).

With respect to DAY/CVG, a single airport had been proposed between Dayton and Cincinnati. Both cities were too proud to share an airport, so we ended up with two airports located far away from where most of recent the population growth has occurred in Southwest Ohio -- the north suburbs of Cincinnati/south suburbs of Dayton. Kasich's idea to have a combined airport was right in that sense, but his proposed location in Wilimington was awful.

I honestly don't know what you all are talking about. The current air infrastructure in Ohio works perfectly fine. CVG, CMH and CLE airports continue growing and, going hand-in-hand with market dynamics, airports like CAK, DAY and TOL now serve smaller, hyper-local O&D markets...what's not working there?

While certainly the connectivity having all the hubs provided was great, it can be argued they greatly distorted the Cincinnati and Cleveland markets by pushing local traffic to DAY and CAK respectively, which was not efficient.

Works fine? Its broken. Just look at all the posts on this thread as evidence of a major problem -- lack of decent domestic and international non-stops from Ohio's airports. CVG and CLE have one international flight a handful of days a week, and this is supposed to be OK? A few non-stops on Allegiant, Frontier, Delta, to mostly tourist destinations. Its not.

When businesses consider moving to Ohio or leaving, one constant factor that works against us is the lack of non-stop flights (one non-stop flight a day on Frontier leaving at 6:00AM just doesn't wok for business travelers). Chiquita cited this issue as a reason for leaving Cincinnati for North Carolina, NCR in Dayton moved to Atlanta for better airline flghts, etc. etc. Dayton retaining the Piedmont hub or Cincinnati retaining the Delta hub would have made a difference. So yes, looking back it was a big mistake building a separate airport for CVG and DAY as it is likely that a combined airport would have retained its hub status or at least had the O/D traffic to justify more domestic and international non-stops.

Edit: And that's just the beginning. Don't get me started on the lack of quick and effecient transportation options to the respective city centers. CVG requires a trip by cab over a broken and congested Brent-Spence bridge (someone here even proposed taking the FERRY across as being quicker!). At least DAY fixed the I-75 bottleneck. Build an airport between the two cities, with high-speed rail connecting the respective city centers. It would cost $$$$$$ but the next generation of those living here would thank us.

bigred10k wrote:

flyguy89 wrote:

bigred10k wrote:

Ohio's long-term aviation planning has turned out to be terrible for the state. At one point, when each of our major cities had hubs (CVG - Delta, CMH - America West, CLE - Continental/United and DAY - Piedmont), the strategy seemed like it had worked. With consolidation, however, CVG effectively lost its hub to MSP and DTW. DAY and CMH lost to PIT, and CLE lost to ORD/IAD. But looking back now, in the context of airline consolidation, it would have been much wiser to have just three main airports in Ohio (combined CVG/DAY, combined CLE/CAK, and CMH).

With respect to DAY/CVG, a single airport had been proposed between Dayton and Cincinnati. Both cities were too proud to share an airport, so we ended up with two airports located far away from where most of recent the population growth has occurred in Southwest Ohio -- the north suburbs of Cincinnati/south suburbs of Dayton. Kasich's idea to have a combined airport was right in that sense, but his proposed location in Wilimington was awful.

I honestly don't know what you all are talking about. The current air infrastructure in Ohio works perfectly fine. CVG, CMH and CLE airports continue growing and, going hand-in-hand with market dynamics, airports like CAK, DAY and TOL now serve smaller, hyper-local O&D markets...what's not working there?

While certainly the connectivity having all the hubs provided was great, it can be argued they greatly distorted the Cincinnati and Cleveland markets by pushing local traffic to DAY and CAK respectively, which was not efficient.

Works fine? Its broken. Just look at all the posts on this thread as evidence of a major problem -- lack of decent domestic and international non-stops from Ohio's airports. CVG and CLE have one international flight a handful of days a week, and this is supposed to be OK? A few non-stops on Allegiant, Frontier, Delta, to mostly tourist destinations. Its not.

When businesses consider moving to Ohio or leaving, one constant factor that works against us is the lack of non-stop flights (one non-stop flight a day on Frontier leaving at 6:00AM just doesn't wok for business travelers). Chiquita cited this issue as a reason for leaving Cincinnati for North Carolina, NCR in Dayton moved to Atlanta for better airline flghts, etc. etc. Dayton retaining the Piedmont hub or Cincinnati retaining the Delta hub would have made a difference. So yes, looking back it was a big mistake building a separate airport for CVG and DAY as it is likely that a combined airport would have retained its hub status or at least had the O/D traffic to justify more domestic and international non-stops.

Edit: And that's just the beginning. Don't get me started on the lack of quick and effecient transportation options to the respective city centers. CVG requires a trip by cab over a broken and congested Brent-Spence bridge (someone here even proposed taking the FERRY across as being quicker!). At least DAY fixed the I-75 bottleneck. Build an airport between the two cities, with high-speed rail connecting the respective city centers. It would cost $$$$$$ but the next generation of those living here would thank us.

Wouldn’t CVG having DL to CDG and Wow to KEF count a having more than one international flight a few times per week?

bigred10k wrote:

Edit: And that's just the beginning. Don't get me started on the lack of quick and effecient transportation options to the respective city centers. CVG requires a trip by cab over a broken and congested Brent-Spence bridge (someone here even proposed taking the FERRY across as being quicker!). At least DAY fixed the I-75 bottleneck. Build an airport between the two cities, with high-speed rail connecting the respective city centers. It would cost $$$$$$ but the next generation of those living here would thank us.

I know this forum is not centered on CLE, but CLE has had quick and efficient transportation to the center of downtown since 1968, the first in North America.

http://www.riderta.com/airportservice

Ooops. We forgot to include the WOW non-stop to Iceland in our presentation for the Amazon HQ. Amazon please reconsider. We have a non-stop flight to Iceland a handful of days a week for $99. Business travelers if something goes wrong, you'll get there sooner or later. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 716968002/

bigred10k wrote:

flyguy89 wrote:

bigred10k wrote:

Ohio's long-term aviation planning has turned out to be terrible for the state. At one point, when each of our major cities had hubs (CVG - Delta, CMH - America West, CLE - Continental/United and DAY - Piedmont), the strategy seemed like it had worked. With consolidation, however, CVG effectively lost its hub to MSP and DTW. DAY and CMH lost to PIT, and CLE lost to ORD/IAD. But looking back now, in the context of airline consolidation, it would have been much wiser to have just three main airports in Ohio (combined CVG/DAY, combined CLE/CAK, and CMH).

With respect to DAY/CVG, a single airport had been proposed between Dayton and Cincinnati. Both cities were too proud to share an airport, so we ended up with two airports located far away from where most of recent the population growth has occurred in Southwest Ohio -- the north suburbs of Cincinnati/south suburbs of Dayton. Kasich's idea to have a combined airport was right in that sense, but his proposed location in Wilimington was awful.

I honestly don't know what you all are talking about. The current air infrastructure in Ohio works perfectly fine. CVG, CMH and CLE airports continue growing and, going hand-in-hand with market dynamics, airports like CAK, DAY and TOL now serve smaller, hyper-local O&D markets...what's not working there?

While certainly the connectivity having all the hubs provided was great, it can be argued they greatly distorted the Cincinnati and Cleveland markets by pushing local traffic to DAY and CAK respectively, which was not efficient.

Edit: And that's just the beginning. Don't get me started on the lack of quick and effecient transportation options to the respective city centers. CVG requires a trip by cab over a broken and congested Brent-Spence bridge (someone here even proposed taking the FERRY across as being quicker!). At least DAY fixed the I-75 bottleneck. Build an airport between the two cities, with high-speed rail connecting the respective city centers. It would cost $$$$$$ but the next generation of those living here would thank us.

If a bridge is that big of an issue, take 471 or 275. It takes me 20 min from the east side of Cincinnati to get to CVG. Downtown, even with traffic, shouldn't take more than 1/2 hour. If the location of CVG was that big of an issue, Ultimate would be growing much faster than they are. In fact, many business travelers actually prefer the location of CVG. UE just doesn't have the fleet to support ops at both airports, but they do plan on coming back at some point.

A new airport would be a complete waste of money, Kentucky has 0 incentive to lose the airport and none of the carriers at CVG would be on board for moving to the new airport. CVG has some of the lowest landing fees in the midwest, a new multi-billion dollar airport would have crazy fees. Plus, say good-bye to Amazon (and probably DHL) under that proposal, as split ops would raise fees at CVG. I also highly doubt Delta would support loosing the hundreds of millions they have invested at CVG, so say goodbye to the DL hub/focus city.

CVG is the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport. The catchment area of NKY + Lexington/Louisville is much larger than a Cincinnati/Dayton airport, which would still have significant leakage to Columbus/Indianapolis. Lexington/Louisville have no other alternatives and their airports are quite small. A significant chunk of their passengers are coming to CVG for low fares/direct flights.

bigred10k wrote:

Works fine? Its broken. Just look at all the posts on this thread as evidence of a major problem -- lack of decent domestic and international non-stops from Ohio's airports. CVG and CLE have one international flight a handful of days a week, and this is supposed to be OK? A few non-stops on Allegiant, Frontier, Delta, to mostly tourist destinations. Its not.

International? I think CVG has a little more than 1 international flight a few times a week. Currently CVG has nonstop service to Cancún, Cozumel, Freeport, Montego Bay, Paris, Punta Cana, Reykjavík, San José del Cabo, and Toronto. This totals 30 weekly flights on 5 carriers to 9 destinations, which I believe is the most of any non-hub midwest airport (or at least very close to the most).

I you are talking TATL, behind Pittsburgh, CVG has the most weekly flights to Europe of any midwest non-hub city, I'd say that is pretty good. Plus, we have gotten our flights for essentially free, PIT uses its endless money tree.
PIT: 14 (18 next year)
CVG: 12
CLE: 9
IND: 7
BNA: 5
STL: 5
MCI: 0
CMH: 0
LEX: 0
SDF: 0
CAK: 0
MKE: 0

I also think we will get another TATL route within the next few years, either Condor to FRA or DL to LHR/AMS. That would far outpace any city in the midwest...

bigred10k wrote:

When businesses consider moving to Ohio or leaving, one constant factor that works against us is the lack of non-stop flights (one non-stop flight a day on Frontier leaving at 6:00AM just doesn't wok for business travelers). Chiquita cited this issue as a reason for leaving Cincinnati for North Carolina, NCR in Dayton moved to Atlanta for better airline flghts, etc. etc. Dayton retaining the Piedmont hub or Cincinnati retaining the Delta hub would have made a difference. So yes, looking back it was a big mistake building a separate airport for CVG and DAY as it is likely that a combined airport would have retained its hub status or at least had the O/D traffic to justify more domestic and international non-stops.

Again, Cincinnati + Northern Kentucky have more population and less leakage than Cincinnati/Dayton.

CLEguy wrote:

bigred10k wrote:

I know this forum is not centered on CLE, but CLE has had quick and efficient transportation to the center of downtown since 1968, the first in North America.

http://www.riderta.com/airportservice

I don’t live in CLE anymore , but man I miss riding the train into the city for things , especially sporting events , so cheap and convenient!

Big upguages in the DL schedule update today:
CVG-BWI extended to daily from now until end of the schedule
CVG-DCA/SFO goes daily effective February 24
CVG-ORD goes daily effective April 28
CVG-DFW/IAH/AUS/RDU/CLT/PHL/EWR/MKE/MCI/STL/YYZ goes daily effective June 2
CVG-SEA/PHX goes daily effective June 9

CVG-BWI increases to 3x/day everyday except Sat (previously went down to 2x/day in the winter)
CVG-RSW retains a B738 into the summer (was B712 last year)
CVG-ORD returns to 1-CR9, 1-CR7, 2-CRJ (was 4-CRJ) effective May 1st and retains during the summer
CVG-MSP retains 2x/day mainline into the summer (was spring only last year)

All-in-all, every DL route is scheduled to be daily except CUN/BNA by June 9. Pretty impressive if this sticks!

bigred10k wrote:

flyguy89 wrote:

bigred10k wrote:

Ohio's long-term aviation planning has turned out to be terrible for the state. At one point, when each of our major cities had hubs (CVG - Delta, CMH - America West, CLE - Continental/United and DAY - Piedmont), the strategy seemed like it had worked. With consolidation, however, CVG effectively lost its hub to MSP and DTW. DAY and CMH lost to PIT, and CLE lost to ORD/IAD. But looking back now, in the context of airline consolidation, it would have been much wiser to have just three main airports in Ohio (combined CVG/DAY, combined CLE/CAK, and CMH).

With respect to DAY/CVG, a single airport had been proposed between Dayton and Cincinnati. Both cities were too proud to share an airport, so we ended up with two airports located far away from where most of recent the population growth has occurred in Southwest Ohio -- the north suburbs of Cincinnati/south suburbs of Dayton. Kasich's idea to have a combined airport was right in that sense, but his proposed location in Wilimington was awful.

I honestly don't know what you all are talking about. The current air infrastructure in Ohio works perfectly fine. CVG, CMH and CLE airports continue growing and, going hand-in-hand with market dynamics, airports like CAK, DAY and TOL now serve smaller, hyper-local O&D markets...what's not working there?

While certainly the connectivity having all the hubs provided was great, it can be argued they greatly distorted the Cincinnati and Cleveland markets by pushing local traffic to DAY and CAK respectively, which was not efficient.

Works fine? Its broken. Just look at all the posts on this thread as evidence of a major problem -- lack of decent domestic and international non-stops from Ohio's airports. CVG and CLE have one international flight a handful of days a week, and this is supposed to be OK? A few non-stops on Allegiant, Frontier, Delta, to mostly tourist destinations. Its not.

Ohio has all of the domestic and international flights the various markets can support. What exactly are you expecting? Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland are all mid-size cities, and if you look at similar markets, even the "hot" ones like RDU and AUS, the air service profiles are all similar. And I'm even completely ignoring the cargo aspect, among which Cincinnati and Columbus are pretty heavy hitters.

bigred10k wrote:

When businesses consider moving to Ohio or leaving, one constant factor that works against us is the lack of non-stop flights (one non-stop flight a day on Frontier leaving at 6:00AM just doesn't wok for business travelers). Chiquita cited this issue as a reason for leaving Cincinnati for North Carolina, NCR in Dayton moved to Atlanta for better airline flghts, etc. etc. Dayton retaining the Piedmont hub or Cincinnati retaining the Delta hub would have made a difference.

If you want to ignore the larger, underlying issues that affect where companies want to locate be my guest...but Austin and Raleigh both also lack prestigious hubs yet continue to thrive.

bigred10k wrote:

So yes, looking back it was a big mistake building a separate airport for CVG and DAY as it is likely that a combined airport would have retained its hub status or at least had the O/D traffic to justify more domestic and international non-stops.

Dream on. An airport between Dayton and Cincinnati might make sense once the metro areas actually merge, but otherwise it wouldn't really move the needle as for all the passengers it might gain from being more central, it also looses people to other area airports on the populous northern and southern areas.

cvgComair wrote:

Big upguages in the DL schedule update today:
CVG-BWI extended to daily from now until end of the schedule
CVG-DCA/SFO goes daily effective February 24
CVG-ORD goes daily effective April 28
CVG-DFW/IAH/AUS/RDU/CLT/PHL/EWR/MKE/MCI/STL/YYZ goes daily effective June 2
CVG-SEA/PHX goes daily effective June 9

CVG-BWI increases to 3x/day everyday except Sat (previously went down to 2x/day in the winter)
CVG-RSW retains a B738 into the summer (was B712 last year)
CVG-ORD returns to 1-CR9, 1-CR7, 2-CRJ (was 4-CRJ) effective May 1st and retains during the summer
CVG-MSP retains 2x/day mainline into the summer (was spring only last year)

All-in-all, every DL route is scheduled to be daily except CUN/BNA by June 9. Pretty impressive if this sticks!

Nice, thanks for the summary.

The comments from OH people who are mad that the airport is in KY are always entertaining.

bigred10k wrote:

flyguy89 wrote:

I honestly don't know what you all are talking about. The current air infrastructure in Ohio works perfectly fine. CVG, CMH and CLE airports continue growing and, going hand-in-hand with market dynamics, airports like CAK, DAY and TOL now serve smaller, hyper-local O&D markets...what's not working there?

While certainly the connectivity having all the hubs provided was great, it can be argued they greatly distorted the Cincinnati and Cleveland markets by pushing local traffic to DAY and CAK respectively, which was not efficient.

Works fine? Its broken. Just look at all the posts on this thread as evidence of a major problem -- lack of decent domestic and international non-stops from Ohio's airports. CVG and CLE have one international flight a handful of days a week, and this is supposed to be OK? A few non-stops on Allegiant, Frontier, Delta, to mostly tourist destinations. Its not.

When businesses consider moving to Ohio or leaving, one constant factor that works against us is the lack of non-stop flights (one non-stop flight a day on Frontier leaving at 6:00AM just doesn't wok for business travelers). Chiquita cited this issue as a reason for leaving Cincinnati for North Carolina, NCR in Dayton moved to Atlanta for better airline flghts, etc. etc. Dayton retaining the Piedmont hub or Cincinnati retaining the Delta hub would have made a difference. So yes, looking back it was a big mistake building a separate airport for CVG and DAY as it is likely that a combined airport would have retained its hub status or at least had the O/D traffic to justify more domestic and international non-stops.

There are actually destinations such as BDL, MKE, PVD, SJU, and KEF that are served nonstop from CVG but that aren't served nonstop from IND, SDF, CMH, or DAY. DAL, HOU, and OAK are also currently the only destinations that are served nonstop from IND or CMH that aren't served nonstop from CVG, but CVG does have nonstop service to DFW, IAH, and SFO on at least 2 airlines. There are also a few destinations such as BOS, MCI, BNA, STL, and DCA that are served nonstop from CVG on DL, that aren't served nonstop out of CVG on any LCC's, and that are served nonstop from IND or CMH on WN.

There are also some connecting opportunities that exist in the CMH market but not in the CVG market with WN serving STL and DAL nonstop from CMH but not from CVG. WN also has nonstop service out of STL to some destinations such as SMF, OKC, TUL, ICT, OMA, DSM, LIT, PNS, and ECP that aren't served nonstop from any of the Ohio airports.

I agree that the lack of nonstop flights out of CVG is a factor that works against businesses that are considering relocating to the Cincinnati tri-state region. WN adding nonstop service to additional destinations such as STL, DAL, HOU, LAS, MCO, and TPA out of CVG would provide several benefits, including the following:

• Additional connecting opportunities in the Cincinnati market
• Improved competition on flights out of CVG
• Ability to attract more businesses who are considering relocating to the Cincinnati tri-state region
• Ability to further grow WN's customer base in the CVG market

CVG PIT CLE AND IND all have new Transatlantic service while CMH officials twittle their thumbs and we fall further behind. There are opportunities availible and our city and aviation officials do nothing.

I’m know I may be in the minority among CVG flyers but whereas I always root for more service, i think the route network is pretty good. With multiple frequencies to US3 hubs we’re one stop from many destinations. With the CDG flight we’re one stop to much of Europe. Do we have 4x to LA anymore on Delta? No. But we’re not a hub any longer. Get over it. We still have good service levels for a market our size that also competes with 3-4 surrounding airports due to their proximity. And the airport being in KY adds maybe 10 minutes as opposed to if LUK had been the main airport. I don’t know anyone that wouldn’t drive 10 minutes for better service and/prices. CVG is a good situation for the market now except for corporate clients that truly don’t care that they are paying hub captive fares for hub level frequencies.

papatango wrote:

CVG PIT CLE AND IND all have new Transatlantic service while CMH officials twittle their thumbs and we fall further behind. There are opportunities availible and our city and aviation officials do nothing.

Not exactly true. Not every city has 5 or 9 million dollars to throw at DL and 3 million to throw at BA. It's a great achievement for the cities that got the service, but not a set back for the ones that didn't. They too will get service eventually. They just won't have the trophy of being the first.

flyingfromcvg wrote:

I’m know I may be in the minority among CVG flyers but whereas I always root for more service, i think the route network is pretty good. With multiple frequencies to US3 hubs we’re one stop from many destinations. With the CDG flight we’re one stop to much of Europe. Do we have 4x to LA anymore on Delta? No. But we’re not a hub any longer. Get over it. We still have good service levels for a market our size that also competes with 3-4 surrounding airports due to their proximity. And the airport being in KY adds maybe 10 minutes as opposed to if LUK had been the main airport. I don’t know anyone that wouldn’t drive 10 minutes for better service and/prices. CVG is a good situation for the market now except for corporate clients that truly don’t care that they are paying hub captive fares for hub level frequencies.

I'm going out on a limb by saying that CVG is the best-served market of this size in the country. There are at least half a dozen airports that have larger metro areas but don't have this level of legacy carrier service.

I'd like to see a few markets restored (MSY, RIC, PDX, CHS), but I think we've got it pretty good.

stl07 wrote:

papatango wrote:

CVG PIT CLE AND IND all have new Transatlantic service while CMH officials twittle their thumbs and we fall further behind. There are opportunities availible and our city and aviation officials do nothing.

Not exactly true. Not every city has 5 or 9 million dollars to throw at DL and 3 million to throw at BA. It's a great achievement for the cities that got the service, but not a set back for the ones that didn't. They too will get service eventually. They just won't have the trophy of being the first.

I agree. I'd be much more disappointed/disturbed if nobody was even considering CMH and/or if CRAA was content to ride with what they had. The Icelandic carriers did visit but both said no, but there's now documented evidence that DL (the US3 most likely to add P2P TATL, backed up by a decent presence here already) is willing to dance.

I have to wonder if Columbus being less of a "household name" dented them in the eyes of WW and FI. I sort of wonder if one of the two would've come to CMH instead if they knew the other was also going to start CLE.

Is F9 planning on bringing back DFW-CVG nonstop service in 2019 after its discontinuation on November 13, 2018, or is F9 going to be permanently discontinuing DFW-CVG nonstop service after November 13th of this year?

CVG could easily support nonstop service to DAL on WN if F9 drops DFW-CVG nonstop service. While the fares are likely to be higher on WN DAL-CVG nonstop service if F9 drops DFW-CVG nonstop service, WN adding DAL-CVG nonstop service would allow WN to further expand its customer base in the Cincinnati market, would limit any fare hikes on AA and DL that would result on the DFW-CVG nonstop route if F9 drops DFW-CVG nonstop service, and would keep fares down on AA, DL, and UA nonstops to DFW, AUS, and IAH out of CVG. WN would also be able to connect passengers to additional Texas markets from CVG if WN added DAL-CVG nonstop service.

jplatts wrote:

Is F9 planning on bringing back DFW-CVG nonstop service in 2019 after its discontinuation on November 13, 2018, or is F9 going to be permanently discontinuing DFW-CVG nonstop service after November 13th of this year?

It is a seasonal route, so yes, it should be coming back.

cvgComair wrote:

Big upguages in the DL schedule update today:
CVG-BWI extended to daily from now until end of the schedule
CVG-DCA/SFO goes daily effective February 24
CVG-ORD goes daily effective April 28
CVG-DFW/IAH/AUS/RDU/CLT/PHL/EWR/MKE/MCI/STL/YYZ goes daily effective June 2
CVG-SEA/PHX goes daily effective June 9

CVG-BWI increases to 3x/day everyday except Sat (previously went down to 2x/day in the winter)
CVG-RSW retains a B738 into the summer (was B712 last year)
CVG-ORD returns to 1-CR9, 1-CR7, 2-CRJ (was 4-CRJ) effective May 1st and retains during the summer
CVG-MSP retains 2x/day mainline into the summer (was spring only last year)

All-in-all, every DL route is scheduled to be daily except CUN/BNA by June 9. Pretty impressive if this sticks!

With PHX, how does going down to 5x weekly in March and the back to daily in June make any sense?

cledaybuck wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

Big upguages in the DL schedule update today:
CVG-BWI extended to daily from now until end of the schedule
CVG-DCA/SFO goes daily effective February 24
CVG-ORD goes daily effective April 28
CVG-DFW/IAH/AUS/RDU/CLT/PHL/EWR/MKE/MCI/STL/YYZ goes daily effective June 2
CVG-SEA/PHX goes daily effective June 9

CVG-BWI increases to 3x/day everyday except Sat (previously went down to 2x/day in the winter)
CVG-RSW retains a B738 into the summer (was B712 last year)
CVG-ORD returns to 1-CR9, 1-CR7, 2-CRJ (was 4-CRJ) effective May 1st and retains during the summer
CVG-MSP retains 2x/day mainline into the summer (was spring only last year)

All-in-all, every DL route is scheduled to be daily except CUN/BNA by June 9. Pretty impressive if this sticks!

With PHX, how does going down to 5x weekly in March and the back to daily in June make any sense?

Every single route is listed as daily in June. This is because DL hasn’t actually published their schedule for June yet. For example, CLE-BDL is daily, IND-RDU is even listed as 2x daily on Saturdays.

So, the last weeks of DLs schedule are not indications of whether routes are going daily.

Midwestindy wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

Big upguages in the DL schedule update today:
CVG-BWI extended to daily from now until end of the schedule
CVG-DCA/SFO goes daily effective February 24
CVG-ORD goes daily effective April 28
CVG-DFW/IAH/AUS/RDU/CLT/PHL/EWR/MKE/MCI/STL/YYZ goes daily effective June 2
CVG-SEA/PHX goes daily effective June 9

CVG-BWI increases to 3x/day everyday except Sat (previously went down to 2x/day in the winter)
CVG-RSW retains a B738 into the summer (was B712 last year)
CVG-ORD returns to 1-CR9, 1-CR7, 2-CRJ (was 4-CRJ) effective May 1st and retains during the summer
CVG-MSP retains 2x/day mainline into the summer (was spring only last year)

All-in-all, every DL route is scheduled to be daily except CUN/BNA by June 9. Pretty impressive if this sticks!

With PHX, how does going down to 5x weekly in March and the back to daily in June make any sense?

Every single route is listed as daily in June. This is because DL hasn’t actually published their schedule for June yet. For example, CLE-BDL is daily, IND-RDU is even listed as 2x daily on Saturdays.

So, the last weeks of DLs schedule are not indications of whether routes are going daily.

It depends. The routes going daily June 2 may or may not actually stick. They did the same thing in January and May. Those times CVG-AUS/DFW/IAH/ORD/BWI/RDU stuck, but the rest were reduced. I expect a few more to stick this summer, but certainly not all of them will stay.

As for PHX, DL is mirroring the routes frequencies to SEA for some reason. SEA always resumes to daily that week, so PHX appears to as well. My guess is that they will adjust PHX to daily for the spring in about a month, then will trim the summer schedule as bookings warrant.

Why does DL currently only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG, when DL currently has 3 daily nonstops to JFK from IND, 3 daily nonstops to JFK from CMH, and 5 daily nonstops to JFK from ORD? It seems unusual for DL to only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG with CVG being a DL focus city, with CVG being a former DL hub, and with the CVG market being similar in size to the CMH and IND markets. However, I can understand ORD having more nonstop service to JFK on DL than CVG does with ORD being located in a much bigger metropolitan area.

Will DL increase CVG-JFK to 2 or 3 daily nonstops? CVG can probably support at least 3 daily nonstops to JFK on DL if both CMH and IND have that many nonstops to JFK on DL.

jplatts wrote:

Why does DL currently only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG, when DL currently has 3 daily nonstops to JFK from IND, 3 daily nonstops to JFK from CMH, and 5 daily nonstops to JFK from ORD? It seems unusual for DL to only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG with CVG being a DL focus city, with CVG being a former DL hub, and with the CVG market being similar in size to the CMH and IND markets. However, I can understand ORD having more nonstop service to JFK on DL than CVG does with ORD being located in a much bigger metropolitan area.

Will DL increase CVG-JFK to 2 or 3 daily nonstops? CVG can probably support at least 3 daily nonstops to JFK on DL if both CMH and IND have that many nonstops to JFK on DL.

Aren't they probably routing most of the transatlantic pax through CDG, instead of JFK? Wonder if the IND-JFK service will be drawn back?

rockyracoon wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Why does DL currently only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG, when DL currently has 3 daily nonstops to JFK from IND, 3 daily nonstops to JFK from CMH, and 5 daily nonstops to JFK from ORD? It seems unusual for DL to only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG with CVG being a DL focus city, with CVG being a former DL hub, and with the CVG market being similar in size to the CMH and IND markets. However, I can understand ORD having more nonstop service to JFK on DL than CVG does with ORD being located in a much bigger metropolitan area.

Will DL increase CVG-JFK to 2 or 3 daily nonstops? CVG can probably support at least 3 daily nonstops to JFK on DL if both CMH and IND have that many nonstops to JFK on DL.

Aren't they probably routing most of the transatlantic pax through CDG, instead of JFK? Wonder if the IND-JFK service will be drawn back?

The DL IND-JFK increases came after IND-CDG was announced. DL is trying to increase 1-stop intl routings from IND and RDU

jplatts wrote:

Why does DL currently only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG, when DL currently has 3 daily nonstops to JFK from IND, 3 daily nonstops to JFK from CMH, and 5 daily nonstops to JFK from ORD? It seems unusual for DL to only have 1 daily nonstop to JFK from CVG with CVG being a DL focus city, with CVG being a former DL hub, and with the CVG market being similar in size to the CMH and IND markets. However, I can understand ORD having more nonstop service to JFK on DL than CVG does with ORD being located in a much bigger metropolitan area.

Will DL increase CVG-JFK to 2 or 3 daily nonstops? CVG can probably support at least 3 daily nonstops to JFK on DL if both CMH and IND have that many nonstops to JFK on DL.

My guess is DL doesn't add flights because they don't need to in order to remain competitive in NYC. JFK is slot controlled and there are many markets less competitive than CVG to NYC that are probably better uses of the slots. Cincy has a lot of service to NYC, with DL/AA/UA/F9/G4/UE all serving the market:
LGA: DL-6x, F9-1x, AA-2x
EWR: UA-6x, DL-3x, G4-1x
JFK: DL-1x, AA-1x
MMU: UE-1x

If someone like B6 were to come in, DL would probably have 3-4x/day on the route. However, given the low fares and the slots at JFK, it is very unlikely B6 would ever start the route (and DL knows that).

CVG will be releasing parts of the 2050 master plan next week. Key highlights:
- Planning for 19.2 million passengers by 2050
- Planning for 6.7 million tons of cargo by 2050 (would make CVG the largest cargo airport in the world by far today, expected to be ~3rd/4th taking into account growth of other airports)
- Amazon full-buildout scheduled for 2025-2027
- Reconfigurations of passenger terminals, both Concourse A/B need significant overhaul by 2030

This is a very ambitious plan, rivaling the lofty goals of the 2025 master plan.

The cargo number seems big, but it definitely is not unreasonable. Amazon has 1200 acres and could handle hundreds of cargo 767/777/747 at a time if they wanted to. I really cannot wait to see the renderings of the facility, it is going to have to be massive to support that amount of cargo.

IMO, the 19.2 million passengers seems excessive, but who knows. I really doubt we could get back to that number without a hub to support it. A lot can change in 30 years though.

Here is a quick overview: https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/exclu ... ing-growth

cvgComair wrote:

- Planning for 6.7 million tons of cargo by 2050 (would make CVG the largest cargo airport in the world by far)

No doubt cargo at CVG will see huge growth but it seems you are comparing CVG in 2050 to cargo airports today.

The HKGs, PVGs and ICNs of the world won't be sitting still between now and 2050. HKG is already at 5 million tons and growing at 9% annually.

flyPIT wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

- Planning for 6.7 million tons of cargo by 2050 (would make CVG the largest cargo airport in the world by far)

No doubt cargo at CVG will see huge growth but it seems you are comparing CVG in 2050 to cargo airports today.

The HKGs, PVGs and ICNs of the world won't be sitting still between now and 2050. HKG is already at 5 million tons and growing at 9% annually.

Sorry, I didn't copy from my tweet that of course HKG/MEM/etc would be growing as well. The latest I heard is that CVG is expected to come in right behind HKG/MEM.

cvgComair wrote:

CVG will be releasing parts of the 2050 master plan next week. Key highlights:
- Planning for 19.2 million passengers by 2050
- Planning for 6.7 million tons of cargo by 2050 (would make CVG the largest cargo airport in the world by far today, expected to be ~3rd/4th taking into account growth of other airports)
- Amazon full-buildout scheduled for 2025-2027
- Reconfigurations of passenger terminals, both Concourse A/B need significant overhaul by 2030

This is a very ambitious plan, rivaling the lofty goals of the 2025 master plan.

The cargo number seems big, but it definitely is not unreasonable. Amazon has 1200 acres and could handle hundreds of cargo 767/777/747 at a time if they wanted to. I really cannot wait to see the renderings of the facility, it is going to have to be massive to support that amount of cargo.

IMO, the 19.2 million passengers seems excessive, but who knows. I really doubt we could get back to that number without a hub to support it. A lot can change in 30 years though.

Here is a quick overview: https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/exclu ... ing-growth

About time they are releasing info on this!

It is sad that CVG won't reach it's pre-dehubbing record of 22 million pax before 2050, but I guess it is what it is. They could always be wrong (I tend to think most master plans as of late are being more conservative than they could be due to lessons learned from the volatility of the industry of yesteryear).

Since passenger-wise, CVG will be an O&D airport going forward, I think a complete demolition and reconstruction of the terminal complex should be in order. Take advantage of the massive $$$$ Amazon and DHL is/will be bringing in and think big. The current layout was designed for a connecting hub, it is not as efficient as an O&D airport. After reviewing the layout, I say do a design similar to IND and the new MSY, but with more gates (around 50-55). Put 4 widebody capable gates in the middle of the new terminal and move customs accordingly. Focus on a lot of natural light and have more local restaurants and shops in the new terminal.

Cargo-wise, it will be exciting to see what Amazon does. Are they still planning on building the section in the rectangle between 18R/36L and 18C/36C?

bigred10k wrote:

Edit: And that's just the beginning. Don't get me started on the lack of quick and effecient transportation options to the respective city centers. CVG requires a trip by cab over a broken and congested Brent-Spence bridge (someone here even proposed taking the FERRY across as being quicker!). At least DAY fixed the I-75 bottleneck. Build an airport between the two cities, with high-speed rail connecting the respective city centers. It would cost $$$$$$ but the next generation of those living here would thank us.

KY 212 could be extended to a new bridge across the Ohio River that would connect to Ebenezer Road in Delhi Township on the Ohio side. A new bridge across the Ohio River connecting KY 212 on the Kentucky side to Ebenezer Road on the Ohio side would improve access to CVG Airport from western Hamilton County by providing an alternative to the Brent Spence Bridge (the bridge connecting I-71 and I-75 to Kentucky from Ohio), the Anderson Ferry, and the Carroll Lee Cropper Bridge (the bridge connecting Indiana and Kentucky on the western end of the I-275 loop).

While connecting Ebenezer Road in Delhi Township to KY 212 in Northern Kentucky would improve access to CVG Airport from western Hamilton County, extending Ebenezer Road to KY 212 across a new bridge would dump additional traffic in people's backyards, but Ebenezer Road in Delhi Township and Green Township would likely remain as a regular suburban street with a 35 mph speed limit if it ever is extended to a bridge connecting to KY 212 on the Kentucky side.

Looks like a Atlas 744 from BWI and a UAL 764 from ORD will be arriving in CAK for the Hall of Fame game in a few hrs!

Good Morning Robert1010,

Yesterday early evening I was having dinner outside near Berlin Center, Ohio about 25 miles E/NE of CAK. I saw a low flying 4 engine jetliner flying SE to NW. I could have sworn it looked like an A340 but I stupidly didn't take a photo or look for wing tip details. It's bugging me not knowing what it was for sure.... It was almost like watching the Twilight Zone as it was flying very slow and going in and out of the lower cloud cover. Could it have been a special flight to CAK for the HOF?

Sincerely,

Karl

lucasatakros

Looks like that was most likely the Atlas 747 arriving - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI ... /KBWI/KCAK

CMH's average fares are trending downward thanks, in part, to ULCCs: http://www.dispatch.com/business/201808 ... eaded-down

It's noteworthy that G4's fares don't count toward CMH's total because of the split operation at LCK.

Gonna be quite a bit of AA mainline metal on the ground in the mornings in November as, in addition to CLT getting a 319, CMH-LAX goes double-daily:

AA 2079 6:25am A319
AA 2102 4:25pm A319

DL has done this in the past, but I can't remember AA doing it. It starts early in the month (at least 11/5), so it's not just a Thanksgiving add, either.

Sorry, I know I am going to activate a certain user , but I figured that it is worth the discussion. WN will be launching CVG-DEN tomorrow and WN officials commented today that they plan to expand more in CVG based on customer demand. Given that the next schedule extension is during spring break and Frontier/Allegiant are pulling way back due to fleet constraints, this could be a perfect opportunity for WN to come in and capture some market share. With the reductions, I think LAS and Florida would be prime places for them to add from CVG.

DeltaRules wrote:

Gonna be quite a bit of AA mainline metal on the ground in the mornings in November as, in addition to CLT getting a 319, CMH-LAX goes double-daily:

AA 2079 6:25am A319
AA 2102 4:25pm A319

DL has done this in the past, but I can't remember AA doing it. It starts early in the month (at least 11/5), so it's not just a Thanksgiving add, either.

I wonder if it will go 2x daily year-round like IND-LAX

I could easily post this article on the Cleveland forum, the Pittsburgh forum, or the Indy forum, as all three are very relevant. I thought it was really excellent and balanced article from the weekend in the Cleveland Plain Dealer debating whether airline incentives are worthwhile, sparked by what's been discussed here-- the OAA's drive to get OH to create a statewide fund (which is a VERY heavy lift considering how much has been cut from local government and public transportation assistance over the last decade). Some of the reader comments are silly but others are quite interesting too.

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index. ... t_new.html

The route announcements have slowed down recently at CVG (Rightfully so as we are almost passed the peak summer travel season). What airline or route could we see be announced next at CVG?

cvgComair wrote:

Sorry, I know I am going to activate a certain user , but I figured that it is worth the discussion. WN will be launching CVG-DEN tomorrow and WN officials commented today that they plan to expand more in CVG based on customer demand. Given that the next schedule extension is during spring break and Frontier/Allegiant are pulling way back due to fleet constraints, this could be a perfect opportunity for WN to come in and capture some market share. With the reductions, I think LAS and Florida would be prime places for them to add from CVG.

I would think PHX would be a prime contender, especially since they flew it last spring.

Cvgspotter15 wrote:

The route announcements have slowed down recently at CVG (Rightfully so as we are almost passed the peak summer travel season). What airline or route could we see be announced next at CVG?

AS could start service out of CVG with nonstop service to its main SEA hub from CVG. Cincinnati is only one of four markets in the U.S. with nonstop service out of SEA (along with Charlotte, Colorado Springs, and Jackson Hole) that isn't currently served by AS. AS and DL both already also have nonstop service to SEA from other Midwestern markets that are similar in size to CVG such as IND and MCI.

Cvgspotter15 wrote:

The route announcements have slowed down recently at CVG (Rightfully so as we are almost passed the peak summer travel season). What airline or route could we see be announced next at CVG?

G4/F9 are pulling back at the moment, so we will not be seeing much more growth from them.

DL will probably not be announcing new routes until early 2019.

Personally, I hope WN/NK/SY are paying attention because this is going to the best opportunity in years to make moves.

My bet is WN with their schedule extension on Aug 30.

cvgComair wrote:

Cvgspotter15 wrote:

The route announcements have slowed down recently at CVG (Rightfully so as we are almost passed the peak summer travel season). What airline or route could we see be announced next at CVG?

G4/F9 are pulling back at the moment, so we will not be seeing much more growth from them.

DL will probably not be announcing new routes until early 2019.

Personally, I hope WN/NK/SY are paying attention because this is going to the best opportunity in years to make moves.

My bet is WN with their schedule extension on Aug 30.

I bet WN jumps on CVG-LAS next, and adds a morning frequency to CVG-DEN.

I'd also bet DL starts (or restarts) CVG-MSY next year.

cvgComair wrote:

Cvgspotter15 wrote:

The route announcements have slowed down recently at CVG (Rightfully so as we are almost passed the peak summer travel season). What airline or route could we see be announced next at CVG?

G4/F9 are pulling back at the moment, so we will not be seeing much more growth from them.

DL will probably not be announcing new routes until early 2019.

Personally, I hope WN/NK/SY are paying attention because this is going to the best opportunity in years to make moves.

My bet is WN with their schedule extension on Aug 30.

I've played this game before with CMH, so I'll take a stab at it, though I'm less familiar with CVG/Cincinnati overall:
Existing:
-AA- Seems to have all the bases covered between mainline and Eagle. LAX might be too crowded. Maybe some upgauges?
-AC- Probably nothing unless they buy a YUL flight.
-G4- Retreating, as cvgComair said.
-DL- Maybe an add or two, but I get the feeling there may not be much there.
-F9- See G4.
-WN- LAS? STL? Do they take a stab at Florida?
-UA- See AA.
-WW- Nowhere/nothing to add.

Potential new players:
-AS- SEA? They don't serve Ohio at all right now. I doubt they try SFO if they're pulling IND-SFO, especially with UA and DL competition.
-B6- BOS would be the obvious choice with no competition.
-NK- Would a CMH-like startup be swatted down by the other two ULCCs with focus cities at the same airport? Columbus had nowhere near the ULCC competition as CVG does when NK came to town, though.
-SY- Whatever they're doing? It sounds like they're still adding Florida and to the West Coast.

Thought I would do an enilria-style YOY capacity change for G4 at CVG (I will do F9 later):

CHANGES ONLY - G4 CVG-XXX MONTH '17/'18>'18/'19
G4 CVG-AUS OCT 0.3>0.4 NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.4>0.3
G4 CVG-BWI SEPT 0.3>0.0 OCT 0.3>0.0 NOV 0.3>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.0 JAN 0.3>0.0 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-CHS SEPT 0.0>0.3 OCT 0.0>0.3 NOV 0.0>0.3 DEC 0.0>0.3 JAN 0.0>0.3 FEB 0.0>0.3
G4 CVG-DEN JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-EWR SEPT 0.7>0.4 OCT 0.7>0.5 NOV 0.7>0.4 DEC 0.7>0.4 JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3
G4 CVG-FLL SEPT 0.5>0.6 OCT 0.9>1.0 DEC 0.9>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.1>0.7
G4 CVG-JAX OCT 0.3>0.5 NOV 0.3>0.4
G4 CVG-LAS OCT 0.6>0.5 NOV 0.7>0.6 DEC 0.7>0.5 JAN 0.6>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3
G4 CVG-LAX SEPT 0.0>0.6 OCT 0.0>0.5 NOV 0.3>0.6
G4 CVG-MSY OCT 0.5>0.4 NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.4>0.3
G4 CVG-MYR OCT 0.3>0.4
G4 CVG-PGD SEPT 0.7>0.8 NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.9 FEB 1.1>1.0
G4 CVG-PIE NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.2>0.9
G4 CVG-PVD NOV 0.1>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.0 JAN 0.3>0.0 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-RDU NOV 0.2>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.0 JAN 0.3>0.0 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-SAV SEPT 0.3>0.4 OCT 0.3>0.5 DEC 0.0>0.3 JAN 0.0>0.3
G4 CVG-SFB NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.9
G4 CVG-SRQ SEPT 0.0>0.3 OCT 0.0>0.3 NOV 0.0>0.3 DEC 0.0>0.3 JAN 0.0>0.3 FEB 0.0>0.3
G4 CVG-VPS SEPT 0.4>0.6 OCT 0.4>0.7 NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.4>0.3

ALL MONTHS - G4 CVG-XXX MONTH '17/'18>'18/'19
G4 CVG-AUS SEPT 0.3>0.3 OCT 0.3>0.4 NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.4 JAN 0.3>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3
G4 CVG-AZA SEPT 0.3>0.3 OCT 0.3>0.3 NOV 0.3>0.3 DEC 0.3>0.3 JAN 0.3>0.3 FEB 0.3>0.3
G4 CVG-BWI SEPT 0.3>0.0 OCT 0.3>0.0 NOV 0.3>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.0 JAN 0.3>0.0 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-CHS SEPT 0.0>0.3 OCT 0.0>0.3 NOV 0.0>0.3 DEC 0.0>0.3 JAN 0.0>0.3 FEB 0.0>0.3
G4 CVG-DEN SEPT 0.3>0.3 OCT 0.3>0.3 NOV 0.3>0.3 DEC 0.3>0.3 JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-EWR SEPT 0.7>0.4 OCT 0.7>0.5 NOV 0.7>0.4 DEC 0.7>0.4 JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3
G4 CVG-FLL SEPT 0.5>0.6 OCT 0.9>1.0 NOV 0.9>0.9 DEC 0.9>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.1>0.7
G4 CVG-JAX SEPT 0.3>0.3 OCT 0.3>0.5 NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.3 JAN 0.3>0.3 FEB 0.3>0.3
G4 CVG-LAS SEPT 0.6>0.6 OCT 0.6>0.5 NOV 0.7>0.6 DEC 0.7>0.5 JAN 0.6>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3
G4 CVG-LAX SEPT 0.0>0.6 OCT 0.0>0.5 NOV 0.3>0.6 DEC 0.6>0.6 JAN 0.5>0.5 FEB 0.6>0.6
G4 CVG-MSY SEPT 0.3>0.3 OCT 0.5>0.4 NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.3>0.4 JAN 0.3>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3
G4 CVG-MYR SEPT 0.3>0.3 OCT 0.3>0.4 NOV 0.0>0.0 DEC 0.0>0.0 JAN 0.0>0.0 FEB 0.0>0.0
G4 CVG-PGD SEPT 0.7>0.8 OCT 1.1>1.1 NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.9 FEB 1.1>1.0
G4 CVG-PIE SEPT 0.7>0.7 OCT 1.1>1.1 NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.2>0.9
G4 CVG-PVD SEPT 0.0>0.0 OCT 0.0>0.0 NOV 0.1>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.0 JAN 0.3>0.0 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-RDU SEPT 0.0>0.0 OCT 0.0>0.0 NOV 0.2>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.0 JAN 0.3>0.0 FEB 0.3>0.0
G4 CVG-SAV SEPT 0.3>0.4 OCT 0.3>0.5 NOV 0.3>0.3 DEC 0.0>0.3 JAN 0.0>0.3 FEB 0.3>0.3
G4 CVG-SFB SEPT 0.9>0.9 OCT 1.1>1.1 NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.8 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.9
G4 CVG-SRQ SEPT 0.0>0.3 OCT 0.0>0.3 NOV 0.0>0.3 DEC 0.0>0.3 JAN 0.0>0.3 FEB 0.0>0.3
G4 CVG-VPS SEPT 0.4>0.6 OCT 0.4>0.7 NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.4 JAN 0.3>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3

'18/'19 change vs '18/'17:
SEPT +15.9%
OCT +16.5%
NOV -2.4%
DEC -10.5%
JAN -20.5%
FEB -25.3%

Interestingly, G4 has reloaded a bunch of frequencies for SEP/OCT/early NOV, which were recently both a YOY decrease. This gives me hope that G4 could restore some frequencies for NOV/DEC/JAN/FEB.

Is PVD-CVG being discontinued or is it just seasonal?

uconn99 wrote:

Is PVD-CVG being discontinued or is it just seasonal?

I think CVG-RDU/PVD/BWI are being cut and will be reevaluated after the fleet shortage is resolved. All three of these routes faced quite a bit of completion and could not handle the upgrade to A320s over A319s. All three routes were in the 40-60% range this past winter. I think RDU/PVD have the best chance of returning in 2019 summer, but we will have to wait and see.

was RDU and BWI previously seasonal? I've head PVD-CVG has been above 90% all summer long. These routes are also a function of the aircraft bases and probably makes sense to dedicate those resources to Florida Nov-April and run flights like those May-Oct.