iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:47 pm

As per today’s OAG thread, curtains down for AA BOS - PIT. Both B6 and DL drove AA out of the route... I believe AA will stay on non hub routes to ROC, MDT, SYR unless they can make money.
 
PVD757
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:40 pm

Is PF seasonal in BOS or are they going seasonal/dropping service completely? The OAG thread shows CDG and STN ending after OCT. I know they have also had aircraft issues.
 
737900ER
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:00 pm

I don't see any resumptions of the PF flights loaded.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:03 pm

Out kayaking around Logan and saw today’s normal BA A380 was a 744. Looked at thebasource.com and couldn’t see anything there as to why. Anyone know what happened that it was subsititued out today?
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:36 am

 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:45 am

iyerhari wrote:

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW, the wait for that route has been so long. Cannot wait to see them here in BOS. Everyone says BOS is done, and yet it still finds ways to just keep on growing.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:03 am

NickolayAv wrote:
iyerhari wrote:

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW, the wait for that route has been so long. Cannot wait to see them here in BOS. Everyone says BOS is done, and yet it still finds ways to just keep on growing.


Here's one of the reasons why... fantastic timings for Terminal E, inbound arrives before all the DL European arrivals and the only departure is JAL. KE's 789's have 270 seats, so this totally plays into how CX started with 4x weekly. This is 102,000 additional seats into the market, just for 2019, But as others have said, this one is in the "about time" column..

ICN-BOS KE089 0930-1030 daily except Mo Th
BOS-ICN KE090 1330-1650+1 daily except Mo Th
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:05 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Out kayaking around Logan and saw today’s normal BA A380 was a 744. Looked at thebasource.com and couldn’t see anything there as to why. Anyone know what happened that it was subsititued out today?


I just noticed that on Flightradar24, you could try asking captain dave... https://twitter.com/DaveWallsworth
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:29 am

VS4ever wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
iyerhari wrote:

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW, the wait for that route has been so long. Cannot wait to see them here in BOS. Everyone says BOS is done, and yet it still finds ways to just keep on growing.


Here's one of the reasons why... fantastic timings for Terminal E, inbound arrives before all the DL European arrivals and the only departure is JAL. KE's 789's have 270 seats, so this totally plays into how CX started with 4x weekly. This is 102,000 additional seats into the market, just for 2019, But as others have said, this one is in the "about time" column..

ICN-BOS KE089 0930-1030 daily except Mo Th
BOS-ICN KE090 1330-1650+1 daily except Mo Th


Terminal E is dead at this time. Like you said the only real service happening is JAL's daily flight to Tokyo. So no worries about them arriving and departing during crunch time.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:33 am

I could see KE 89/90 going to a 77W for 2020, parroting EK and how they started with the 77L. Lots of blue planes at Logan :D
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:21 am

Apologies if this has been asked and answered countless times before, but I’ve never come across it: Why are Icelandair’s Boston flights timed so close together?
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:08 am

LONG POST (not as long as VS4ever)
---------------------------------------------------------
With the recent discussion of DL expanding BOS into a hub, DL moving into 2nd place at BOS, and VS4ever's thread of looking into different intl. markets from BOS, I thought it would be interesting to compare the intl. flight maps from BOS, separated by their alliance.
-A route in black means it is a future route
-GCMap doesn't let this computer post maps into a.net so I left the URLs, (sorry that they are so long)
SkyTeam:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-mex%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
15 routes (1 Asia, 5 Europe, 9 Carribean)

OneWorld:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cun%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
10 routes (3 Asia, 2 Europe, 1 S. America, 4 Carribean)

Star Alliance:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-yyz%2C ... =wls&DU=mi
14 routes (6 Europe (IST counts as Europe), 1 S. America, 2 Central America, 5 Canada)

Unaffilliated:
-For this one I did not add B6's routes, it is all unaffilliated carriers except B6
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-dub%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
21 Routes (5 Asia, 1 Africa, 12 Europe, 3 Canada)
--------------------------------------------------------
The large flight map of unaffiliated carriers does not surprise me in the slightest. Interestingly, before recent international expansion in BOS, Star Alliance was probably the strongest international player, today IMO they are the weakest. Yes, *A has more intl routes than OW, but OW does have a much more spread out network due to *A being concentrated in Europe and Canada.
On another note, if DL intends to call BOS a hub, I would expect to see more intl. routes both on DL metal and other SkyTeam partners alike because they look pretty weak on the global scale. If DL/SkyTeam expand from BOS I'm interested where because Europe is pretty much maxed out on routes for now. Possibly S. America, or another Asia route? Those could be ways to strengthen their status in BOS.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:33 am

chrisnh wrote:
Apologies if this has been asked and answered countless times before, but I’ve never come across it: Why are Icelandair’s Boston flights timed so close together?


Maximizing the utilization of their connection bank at KEF is the primary reason, they only have certain aircraft, so to build capacity TATL, thats what they did. They run say 350 folks from Boston to connect to all their onward services when they arrive via he red eyes at around 5am or so.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:43 am

NickolayAv wrote:
LONG POST (not as long as VS4ever)
---------------------------------------------------------
With the recent discussion of DL expanding BOS into a hub, DL moving into 2nd place at BOS, and VS4ever's thread of looking into different intl. markets from BOS, I thought it would be interesting to compare the intl. flight maps from BOS, separated by their alliance.
-A route in black means it is a future route
-GCMap doesn't let this computer post maps into a.net so I left the URLs, (sorry that they are so long)
SkyTeam:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-mex%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
15 routes (1 Asia, 5 Europe, 9 Carribean)

OneWorld:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cun%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
10 routes (3 Asia, 2 Europe, 1 S. America, 4 Carribean)

Star Alliance:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-yyz%2C ... =wls&DU=mi
14 routes (6 Europe (IST counts as Europe), 1 S. America, 2 Central America, 5 Canada)

Unaffilliated:
-For this one I did not add B6's routes, it is all unaffilliated carriers except B6
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-dub%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
21 Routes (5 Asia, 1 Africa, 12 Europe, 3 Canada)
--------------------------------------------------------
The large flight map of unaffiliated carriers does not surprise me in the slightest. Interestingly, before recent international expansion in BOS, Star Alliance was probably the strongest international player, today IMO they are the weakest. Yes, *A has more intl routes than OW, but OW does have a much more spread out network due to *A being concentrated in Europe and Canada.
On another note, if DL intends to call BOS a hub, I would expect to see more intl. routes both on DL metal and other SkyTeam partners alike because they look pretty weak on the global scale. If DL/SkyTeam expand from BOS I'm interested where because Europe is pretty much maxed out on routes for now. Possibly S. America, or another Asia route? Those could be ways to strengthen their status in BOS.


Lol, and you know I edited the crap out of my posts before I posted them and they were still that long.
Interesting analysis. I do agree Europe is pretty much done at this point. ICN was the big one for Asia missing and if they find the aircraft I have to think CX could move to 10 or 11 weekly. South America is still largely untapped and the existing flights are doing fine. Particularly CM who increased their frequency not so long ago.
I don’t think we are going to see a whole lot more until the restack between A,B and C is complete and DL could bring more on line, E is set unless like KE you can find a nice quiet slot to work in.
I have a feeling PF are going to be one and done and that will open up a space in the key busy afternoon slot, or maybe that’s what allowed KL to dive in, who knows. But otherwise any major growth isn’t going to happen until E13 to E17 come online, but even then is the answer that TP and EI move back from C? And let’s also remember the fabled restart of the 2nd DXB flight if that ever happens.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:07 pm

C'mon Star Alliance, you're killing me! You are the only alliance without a non-stop to Asia from Boston :hissyfit:

chrisnh wrote:
Apologies if this has been asked and answered countless times before, but I’ve never come across it: Why are Icelandair’s Boston flights timed so close together?

My guess is to fit into their European connecting hub at KEF.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:26 pm

Well waiting behind 160 others to get off this B6 non-mint 321 here in MCO. And hey, they even got us here early. Despite the inevitable delays later. At least they can get the early ones out on time.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:38 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Well waiting behind 160 others to get off this B6 non-mint 321 here in MCO. And hey, they even got us here early. Despite the inevitable delays later. At least they can get the early ones out on time.

just anecdotally looking at flightstats. They seem to be right around average (as in BOS average) for OTP in the summer time when they don't have as many flights (They were in the 160s in winter time and low to mid 150s right now). My guess is at least some portion of their on-time issue in BOS is due to gate constraints.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:47 pm

It may sound strange perhaps, but AS MileagePlan has now become stronger in BOS than any other FFP (as long as KE stays buddies with AS).
 
737900ER
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Presumably the new VS, KL, and KE flights will depart out of E rather than A, which would give DL's partners up to 9 flights departing from E (AMS, 2x LHR, MAN, ICN, MEX, 2x CDG, FCO) I wonder if DL has given any consideration to having a sterile bus from A to E to facilitate connections to those flights.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:04 pm

737900ER wrote:
Presumably the new VS, KL, and KE flights will depart out of E rather than A, which would give DL's partners up to 9 flights departing from E (AMS, 2x LHR, MAN, ICN, MEX, 2x CDG, FCO) I wonder if DL has given any consideration to having a sterile bus from A to E to facilitate connections to those flights.


It wouldn't be a bad idea. The walk from E to A isn't bad after clearing customs. But a sterile bus from A to E would be pretty helpful. Although I bet Delta won't do it until they get all of A back. I think that's when we are going to see some moves like that.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:16 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
737900ER wrote:
Presumably the new VS, KL, and KE flights will depart out of E rather than A, which would give DL's partners up to 9 flights departing from E (AMS, 2x LHR, MAN, ICN, MEX, 2x CDG, FCO) I wonder if DL has given any consideration to having a sterile bus from A to E to facilitate connections to those flights.


It wouldn't be a bad idea. The walk from E to A isn't bad after clearing customs. But a sterile bus from A to E would be pretty helpful. Although I bet Delta won't do it until they get all of A back. I think that's when we are going to see some moves like that.


Passengers will still have to clear security before being allowed airside into terminal A as they have had access to their checked luggage at terminal E. So one might as well walk from E to A via moving sidewalks through the parking garages.

Edit: Sorry.... saw you were talking A to E. That would work, but the reverse wouldn't.
Of course, the DL metal flights depart from A anyway.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:58 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
737900ER wrote:
Presumably the new VS, KL, and KE flights will depart out of E rather than A, which would give DL's partners up to 9 flights departing from E (AMS, 2x LHR, MAN, ICN, MEX, 2x CDG, FCO) I wonder if DL has given any consideration to having a sterile bus from A to E to facilitate connections to those flights.


It wouldn't be a bad idea. The walk from E to A isn't bad after clearing customs. But a sterile bus from A to E would be pretty helpful. Although I bet Delta won't do it until they get all of A back. I think that's when we are going to see some moves like that.


Passengers will still have to clear security before being allowed airside into terminal A as they have had access to their checked luggage at terminal E. So one might as well walk from E to A via moving sidewalks through the parking garages.

Edit: Sorry.... saw you were talking A to E. That would work, but the reverse wouldn't.
Of course, the DL metal flights depart from A anyway.


Ideally the "new terminal E" will have a direct connector to the security checkpoint, possibly a dedicate lane for connections, so that passengers arriving on an international flight can get right back into the sterile zone and walk (or take a bus) to whatever terminal they need to go. Technically that is possible today but you can only walk as far as terminal C.
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:17 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
LONG POST (not as long as VS4ever)
---------------------------------------------------------
With the recent discussion of DL expanding BOS into a hub, DL moving into 2nd place at BOS, and VS4ever's thread of looking into different intl. markets from BOS, I thought it would be interesting to compare the intl. flight maps from BOS, separated by their alliance.
-A route in black means it is a future route
-GCMap doesn't let this computer post maps into a.net so I left the URLs, (sorry that they are so long)
SkyTeam:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-mex%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
15 routes (1 Asia, 5 Europe, 9 Carribean)

OneWorld:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cun%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
10 routes (3 Asia, 2 Europe, 1 S. America, 4 Carribean)

Star Alliance:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-yyz%2C ... =wls&DU=mi
14 routes (6 Europe (IST counts as Europe), 1 S. America, 2 Central America, 5 Canada)

Unaffilliated:
-For this one I did not add B6's routes, it is all unaffilliated carriers except B6
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-dub%2C ... MP=r&DU=mi
21 Routes (5 Asia, 1 Africa, 12 Europe, 3 Canada)
--------------------------------------------------------
The large flight map of unaffiliated carriers does not surprise me in the slightest. Interestingly, before recent international expansion in BOS, Star Alliance was probably the strongest international player, today IMO they are the weakest. Yes, *A has more intl routes than OW, but OW does have a much more spread out network due to *A being concentrated in Europe and Canada.
On another note, if DL intends to call BOS a hub, I would expect to see more intl. routes both on DL metal and other SkyTeam partners alike because they look pretty weak on the global scale. If DL/SkyTeam expand from BOS I'm interested where because Europe is pretty much maxed out on routes for now. Possibly S. America, or another Asia route? Those could be ways to strengthen their status in BOS.


Forget about OneWorld vs. StarAlliance vs. Skyteam. The King of International is Alaska Mileageplan in Boston.
They have 8 international partners flying from BOS: BA, CX, EI, EK, FI, HU, KE, and LA.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:33 pm

See DL CEO thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400827&p=20614311#p20614311

There are three questions on BOS and it's quite indicative IMO that they have set their eyes to take on B6 and establishing a good international gateway. It will be really interesting to see DL added expansion at BOS starting next year in the run-up for taking over Terminal A.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:35 pm

iyerhari wrote:
See DL CEO thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400827&p=20614311#p20614311

There are three questions on BOS and it's quite indicative IMO that they have set their eyes to take on B6 and establishing a good international gateway. It will be really interesting to see DL added expansion at BOS starting next year in the run-up for taking over Terminal A.


It also shows you B6 is completely behind the curve with respect to international expansion.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
See DL CEO thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400827&p=20614311#p20614311

There are three questions on BOS and it's quite indicative IMO that they have set their eyes to take on B6 and establishing a good international gateway. It will be really interesting to see DL added expansion at BOS starting next year in the run-up for taking over Terminal A.


It also shows you B6 is completely behind the curve with respect to international expansion.

B6 did well in the market and thanks to retrenchment from AA and DL in early 2000s at BOS. EK and new international carriers partnerships also worked fine for them. They are now dealing with an aggressive DL and it is looking certain DL won't give it up easily. B6 has a ways to go for international expansion and even if they start, they are still at-least 1-2 year away (please clarify). That suffices DL IMO to start expansion - we already know DL will not have the # of gates vs. B6 but then B6 also needs some good destinations to be added to make full use of the gates,.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9562
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:57 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
See DL CEO thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400827&p=20614311#p20614311

There are three questions on BOS and it's quite indicative IMO that they have set their eyes to take on B6 and establishing a good international gateway. It will be really interesting to see DL added expansion at BOS starting next year in the run-up for taking over Terminal A.


It also shows you B6 is completely behind the curve with respect to international expansion.


DL and B6 have different strategies. DL clearly is intent on serving international markets with its own planes while B6 is happy letting its partners do the international flying. B6 partners at BOS are EI, AV, BA, CX, LY, EK, HU, IB, FI, JL, LA, LH, QR, S4, TP, TK and soon KE.
https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Granted that nearly half of those are just interline agreements but lets not underestimate their extensive code-share agreement with EI, FI, JL, QR, TP, EK and TK.
,
 
tphuang
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:01 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
See DL CEO thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400827&p=20614311#p20614311

There are three questions on BOS and it's quite indicative IMO that they have set their eyes to take on B6 and establishing a good international gateway. It will be really interesting to see DL added expansion at BOS starting next year in the run-up for taking over Terminal A.


It also shows you B6 is completely behind the curve with respect to international expansion.

B6 did well in the market and thanks to retrenchment from AA and DL in early 2000s at BOS. EK and new international carriers partnerships also worked fine for them. They are now dealing with an aggressive DL and it is looking certain DL won't give it up easily. B6 has a ways to go for international expansion and even if they start, they are still at-least 1-2 year away (please clarify). That suffices DL IMO to start expansion - we already know DL will not have the # of gates vs. B6 but then B6 also needs some good destinations to be added to make full use of the gates,.


I think what he says is also the key problem with so pro-actively calling themselves the international airline of BOS. He admitted that narrowbody works to Europe out of BOS, which is not really hurdle for B6. DL has 2 years until A321LR arrive. Let's see what they can build up with JFK right down the road and about to loose slot constraints. It's going to look great for consumers, but not for airlines if those TCON fares out of BOS are also replicated in the TATL market. For example on BOS-SEA, the economy seats all through September are selling for low $100s and $400-$500 J fares are widely open on B6/DL. I see the same with BOS-LAX on B6/DL in Sep/Oct (a lot $114 y and $550 j fares). And BOS-SFO ( a lot $138 y and $550 j fares).

great time to be flying out of Boston while this is happening.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:20 pm

airbazar wrote:
DL and B6 have different strategies. DL clearly is intent on serving international markets with its own planes while B6 is happy letting its partners do the international flying. B6 partners at BOS are EI, AV, BA, CX, LY, EK, HU, IB, FI, JL, LA, LH, QR, S4, TP, TK and soon KE.
https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Granted that nearly half of those are just interline agreements but lets not underestimate their extensive code-share agreement with EI, FI, JL, QR, TP, EK and TK.
,

How does B6 make money with an interline agreement with JL, or QR? I can make a reservation to DXB or DUB from www.jetblue.com. I did not check every single airline partnership with B6. I however cannot add NRT or DOH but if I go to www.aa.com I can find these destinations offered nonstop from BOS using codeshare/interline agreements.

Coming back to B6 - my understanding is that if you were to travel from say PIT to BOM on B6/EK then it would be something like PIT-BOS-DXB-BOM or something like that - B6 makes money on the segment from PIT-BOS and EK the remainder. Is this as simple as I am stating?
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:23 pm

DL has a huge problem in regards to Intl expansion out of BOS and that is lack of gates and lack of CBP in their terminal. Even when they take over all of terminal A, DL will still have fewer gates than B6 and when they use a widebody they have to block gates at an already limited terminal. B6 has both of those in abundance for the mere fact that their terminal is now connected to terminal E and with terminal E's expansion it will only get better. I think people are getting over-excited about this KE addition.
 
Kno
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:56 pm

airbazar wrote:
DL has a huge problem in regards to Intl expansion out of BOS and that is lack of gates and lack of CBP in their terminal. Even when they take over all of terminal A, DL will still have fewer gates than B6 and when they use a widebody they have to block gates at an already limited terminal. B6 has both of those in abundance for the mere fact that their terminal is now connected to terminal E and with terminal E's expansion it will only get better. I think people are getting over-excited about this KE addition.


When they get the extra 5 gates they'll get one widebody gate back that doesn't block others and 4 narrowbody gates that fit up to 757s. id say that should add the flexibility to add a few widebody flights at peak times and still expand domestically a significant amount if they choose to.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:43 pm

Intermingled in that article were Bastian's comments on the Boeing NMA, and how they need that plane as a replacement for the 757s and the 767s.

I wonder how a plane that size would fit into Terminal A gates. I'd guess that the wings will be longer than the 767.

I wonder if at some point, Delta will work with Massport to create a solution for transfers between A and E.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:55 pm

for the NMA I imagine the issue for Terminal A would be the wingspan as opposed to length. Think 767 with a 787 wing. Not a major impact, only the 757 flights being upgauged.

While DUB is likely a loser for DL, I would expect DL to block any TATL opportunity for B6 to do with the 321, at least for major markets. (my guess is that's partly why they did it). The only real vacancy now is something in the DUS/FRA area. I'm thinking this is partly why B6 is in no rush, because it will be a bloodbath,.when (or if) the day comes.
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:28 pm

tphuang wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

It also shows you B6 is completely behind the curve with respect to international expansion.

B6 did well in the market and thanks to retrenchment from AA and DL in early 2000s at BOS. EK and new international carriers partnerships also worked fine for them. They are now dealing with an aggressive DL and it is looking certain DL won't give it up easily. B6 has a ways to go for international expansion and even if they start, they are still at-least 1-2 year away (please clarify). That suffices DL IMO to start expansion - we already know DL will not have the # of gates vs. B6 but then B6 also needs some good destinations to be added to make full use of the gates,.


I think what he says is also the key problem with so pro-actively calling themselves the international airline of BOS. He admitted that narrowbody works to Europe out of BOS, which is not really hurdle for B6. DL has 2 years until A321LR arrive. Let's see what they can build up with JFK right down the road and about to loose slot constraints. It's going to look great for consumers, but not for airlines if those TCON fares out of BOS are also replicated in the TATL market. For example on BOS-SEA, the economy seats all through September are selling for low $100s and $400-$500 J fares are widely open on B6/DL. I see the same with BOS-LAX on B6/DL in Sep/Oct (a lot $114 y and $550 j fares). And BOS-SFO ( a lot $138 y and $550 j fares).

great time to be flying out of Boston while this is happening.


I agree with this - in some ways, it reminds me of the TCON battles out of NYC a few years back, when everyone was in a rush to deploy their international product and the widebody capacity increase dropped prices. I'm not sure they ever recovered. I flew JFK-SFO not too long ago in business for about 1200 bucks, purchased just a few days before.

Prices are low because there is a battle for marketshare (B6/DL) on top of the int'l expansion. As we see in this thread, the added capacity is stimulating demand - population numbers going through Logan are growing rapidly. But at some point capacity will need to moderate so prices can catch up.

Does anyone have a good analogy for DL and B6 co-existing at BOS on a long term basis? JFK comes to mind but it's a completely different, substantially larger market.

Seattle, I guess with DL and AS. Denver with UA and WN? Different dynamics - a lot more connecting traffic.
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RobertS975
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:30 pm

tlecam wrote:
Intermingled in that article were Bastian's comments on the Boeing NMA, and how they need that plane as a replacement for the 757s and the 767s.

I wonder how a plane that size would fit into Terminal A gates. I'd guess that the wings will be longer than the 767.

I wonder if at some point, Delta will work with Massport to create a solution for transfers between A and E.


The transfer between A to E is being overly emphasized IMO. It is the same distance as transferring between terminal F and D at ATL. The answer is to figure a way for A to E transfers not to have to go through security again in terminal E. That will most easily be done with an airside "jitney" like they do at JFK. Otherwise you have to do some expensive engineering and construction.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:47 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
The transfer between A to E is being overly emphasized IMO. It is the same distance as transferring between terminal F and D at ATL. The answer is to figure a way for A to E transfers not to have to go through security again in terminal E. That will most easily be done with an airside "jitney" like they do at JFK. Otherwise you have to do some expensive engineering and construction.


For some reason, people lament on transfer between terminals mostly A/B to E :) I am saying hearsay as I have never had to connect at BOS except on one occasion commuting from my client site. Most folks I have been on the flight have had challenges with A satellite side to travel to E as it's a quite a good trek vs. commuting from the main terminal. Most times, the flight also had delays and they were pressed on times.

Once Massport is able to build a sterile connector from A to E similar to what exists between C to E maybe that may make it easier. But I agree with you - these are expensive projects and may take quite a longtime considering everything else that is going on at Logan.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:34 pm

iyerhari wrote:
airbazar wrote:
How does B6 make money with an interline agreement with JL, or QR? I can make a reservation to DXB or DUB from http://www.jetblue.com. I did not check every single airline partnership with B6. I however cannot add NRT or DOH but if I go to http://www.aa.com I can find these destinations offered nonstop from BOS using codeshare/interline agreements.

Coming back to B6 - my understanding is that if you were to travel from say PIT to BOM on B6/EK then it would be something like PIT-BOS-DXB-BOM or something like that - B6 makes money on the segment from PIT-BOS and EK the remainder. Is this as simple as I am stating?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlining Read the part on participating airlines though a two way codeshare ala B6/EK may be more complicated.

A good way to look at B6 partners is the following:

Two way codesharing: FI, EK and others - usualy these partners also offer reciprocal frequent flyer benefits (i.e earn True Blue on EK flight)
One way codesharing: QR, EI, JL and others. No frequent flier benefits.
Interlining only: CI, CA, S4 and others.

Some of these interlines are hard to pull up to. I always see CI/B6 interlines searching for SE Asia flights but never CA - have to go to CA's website.
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RobertS975
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:31 am

There doesn't ever need to be a sterile connector for international arrivals... they go through Customs with their checked luggage and then need to be re-cleared for any connecting flight. Same as JFK, ATL and everywhere else. It would be useful for domestic arrivals to be able to get to airside terminal E without having to clear security again at E.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:33 am

How many flights could a hypothetical DL hub do with all 22 gates in A?
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:50 am

RobertS975 wrote:
There doesn't ever need to be a sterile connector for international arrivals... they go through Customs with their checked luggage and then need to be re-cleared for any connecting flight. Same as JFK, ATL and everywhere else. It would be useful for domestic arrivals to be able to get to airside terminal E without having to clear security again at E.

My point was a dedicated checkpoint for connections. At IAH for example, there is one. You come out of the baggage claim area, drop off your bag and immediately go through a security screening that only connecting passengers use to get back into the sterile area. At LHR it's the same thing, the security screening for passengers is done at the bus gate instead of having passengers have to go through the main terminal checkpoint. The reason being is that a peak times it can take a long time to clear security at the main terminal and passengers can miss their connection.
iyerhari wrote:
How does B6 make money with an interline agreement with JL, or QR?

The same way every airline makes money with interline and code-share flights. By getting a share of the revenue. From an airline revenue perspective there's no difference between interlining and code-sharing. It also allows passengers that "self-connect" to check their bags all the way thru to the destination making self-connecting a lot more attractive. That's even more profitable than selling an interline ticket on the same itinerary. My co-works who are base in RDU do that al the time on their business trips to India. They buy a r/t on B6 to BOS, and then a separate ticket on BA from BOS to India via LHR. They do it this way because the more direct RDU-LHR-India itinerary is nearly twice as expensive and my company doesn't make huge profits by letting its employees blow money away, unnecessarily on travel :)
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:39 am

ADrum23 wrote:
How many flights could a hypothetical DL hub do with all 22 gates in A?


Well if they went all domestic quick turnaround, a la WN, they could do 220 (10 turns per gate) or maybe 232 (11 per gate), but here's some of the issues preventing that.
1. They won't get control of all 22 gates in A, because they have a sub-lease of A1 to WS, so that knocks at least 10 off that number, so we are down to 210.
2. A13-A17 see the international evening departure bank with A15 (if memory serves) blocked at times. So those would knock at least 3 turns off of each gate so let's call that another 15 gone, so now 195.
3. DL are no WN in terms of turn times, they are doing more like 8 per day across the non international banks, so right now that would knock another 2 from all the other gates, so that's another 32 gone (16x2), so now we are down to more like 163
4. DL's stated aim was to get to at least 150 at BOS, but as shown above, they could supposedly push to 160, but that would make the peak times super tight in there, as there really isn't a lot of room for all those movements.

Now could i be wrong on some of these assumptions, sure. But I bet i'm not too far off when all said and done.
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iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:41 am

Massport lures KE with $1m incentives- details finally available-

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/20 ... story.html
 
jworks158
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:13 pm

Terminal E will be quite interesting tonight with both LH422, and LH424 Arriving within 5 minutes of each other, especially with LH420 running only 2hrs behind LH422/424.

Which means that there is a slight possibility of seeing all three LH birds on the ground at the same time in BOS!
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clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:41 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Terminal E will be quite interesting tonight with both LH422, and LH424 Arriving within 5 minutes of each other, especially with LH420 running only 2hrs behind LH422/424.

Which means that there is a slight possibility of seeing all three LH birds on the ground at the same time in BOS!


Wonder how they'll accommodate two LH planes on the ground at the same time, let alone possibly three. Assume two will have to go to remote stands as LH only has 1 gate they typically use at a time, right?

Whatever they do it's gonna be a busy evening at the LH lounge.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:48 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Terminal E will be quite interesting tonight with both LH422, and LH424 Arriving within 5 minutes of each other, especially with LH420 running only 2hrs behind LH422/424.

Which means that there is a slight possibility of seeing all three LH birds on the ground at the same time in BOS!


Wonder how they'll accommodate two LH planes on the ground at the same time, let alone possibly three. Assume two will have to go to remote stands as LH only has 1 gate they typically use at a time, right?

Whatever they do it's gonna be a busy evening at the LH lounge.


Does BOS Logan ever do remote stands? I know aircraft are cleaned, serviced and even catered at remote stands, but I haven't seen actual boarding at remote stands short of Red Sox team charters.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:21 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Wonder how they'll accommodate two LH planes on the ground at the same time, let alone possibly three. Assume two will have to go to remote stands as LH only has 1 gate they typically use at a time, right?

All gates at terminal E are common use gates. No airline owns a dedicated gate there so the aircraft will go to whatever gates they are assigned. However it is true that Massport assigns LH, EK, BA to gates 10,11,12 whenever possible for the simple fact that those airlines' lounges are off of those gates, But when there's more than one frame on the ground, it gets assigned to a different gate.
 
johhn14
Posts: 59
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:30 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
Terminal E will be quite interesting tonight with both LH422, and LH424 Arriving within 5 minutes of each other, especially with LH420 running only 2hrs behind LH422/424.

Which means that there is a slight possibility of seeing all three LH birds on the ground at the same time in BOS!


Wonder how they'll accommodate two LH planes on the ground at the same time, let alone possibly three. Assume two will have to go to remote stands as LH only has 1 gate they typically use at a time, right?

Whatever they do it's gonna be a busy evening at the LH lounge.


Does BOS Logan ever do remote stands? I know aircraft are cleaned, serviced and even catered at remote stands, but I haven't seen actual boarding at remote stands short of Red Sox team charters.

This was routine last summer, not sure if it remains the case.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:21 pm

RobertS975 wrote:

Does BOS Logan ever do remote stands? I know aircraft are cleaned, serviced and even catered at remote stands, but I haven't seen actual boarding at remote stands short of Red Sox team charters.



It is possible, using a somewhat hidden by E8 that leads to a bus parking zone between gates 7/8.

Generally massport avoids busing widebodies, as it's only possible to load 1 or 2 buses at a time. Then once you factor in wheelchairs etc etc, it turns into a whole headache. Plus fueling by tanker isn't ideal.

Tonight however they will be using 2 gates. E9/10, with probable holds for a lot of flights
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:18 pm

I'm in suspense for the Western European data from VS4Ever :smile:
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:56 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I'm in suspense for the Western European data from VS4Ever :smile:


Sorry dude, currently on business in MCO world, but I will get it done before I go to AUS next week :)
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