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airbazar
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:30 pm

jcarv wrote:
People talk about another CBP facility in Terminal A perhaps and like to blame Massport or the airlines. Why dont people address the root problem here which makes it impossible, the US CBP. They can’t even staff Terminal E, what makes anyone think they can staff 2 clearance stations in BOS. The government is in no rush it seems to add agents country wide and airport authorities are already subsidizing overtime to an extent. CBP staffing is the issue.

I've pointed that out a few times. I've never seen terminal E fully staffed. As a result I think airports are trying to address the shortage thru technology, by adding a lot of the automated kiosks.
As for CBP at terminal A, no idea where that would even fit. The only option that I see is underground, parallel to where the current passenger tunnel is. In that location it could even serve terminal B. But Boston and tunnels is not usually a good combination LOL
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:57 pm

It seems like SK's seasonal service of Boston is doing better, because in the Nordic aviation thread they stated that the route will go daily next summer, but will remain seasonal. Good for SK, hopefully the loads will reflect the increase.
On another note, with TSA pre-check expanding to so many intl. airlines is there any plan on creating a separate line for TSA pre-check in Terminal E?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
xorrygva
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:48 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
JetBlue and GVA IMO are like oil and water. Industries where Boston has an edge (pharma, tech, higher education...) and where JetBlue fits naturally are focused on German-speaking Switzerland (all the "Swissnex" stuff which has an office in Cambridge). Geneva is mostly "old finance"... the whole city and environment feels like stuck in 1980. I have a hard time making the connection between that environment with "cool" JetBlue flying a narrow-body TATL.

I could even see BOS-BSL on JetBlue a more natural fit than GVA. Basel has all the pharma industry (e.g. Novartis), it is more dynamic (part of German-speaking Switzerland) and has a catchment area that (in comparison with Zurich) reaches places like Baden-Württemberg (Stuttgart, Karlsruhe) or Strasbourg easier. Also with BSL being a low-cost hub, they could make some partnership with easyJet or other carrier there.


GVA region is less “old finance” than 10 years ago. The region has over 20k jobs in pharma, biotech and medtech. Growth in this region has constantly been above Swiss average growth rate over the last 10 years. Lausanne and Vaud region has attracted most start-up money over the last two years in Switzerland.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:40 pm

xorrygva wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
JetBlue and GVA IMO are like oil and water. Industries where Boston has an edge (pharma, tech, higher education...) and where JetBlue fits naturally are focused on German-speaking Switzerland (all the "Swissnex" stuff which has an office in Cambridge). Geneva is mostly "old finance"... the whole city and environment feels like stuck in 1980. I have a hard time making the connection between that environment with "cool" JetBlue flying a narrow-body TATL.

I could even see BOS-BSL on JetBlue a more natural fit than GVA. Basel has all the pharma industry (e.g. Novartis), it is more dynamic (part of German-speaking Switzerland) and has a catchment area that (in comparison with Zurich) reaches places like Baden-Württemberg (Stuttgart, Karlsruhe) or Strasbourg easier. Also with BSL being a low-cost hub, they could make some partnership with easyJet or other carrier there.


GVA region is less “old finance” than 10 years ago. The region has over 20k jobs in pharma, biotech and medtech. Growth in this region has constantly been above Swiss average growth rate over the last 10 years. Lausanne and Vaud region has attracted most start-up money over the last two years in Switzerland.


I used to be be pro GVA-BOS for all of your reasons but at the end of the day its not a megacity by any means but punches well above its weight concerning BOS. GVA airport does claim catchment of 6.1 million people 2 hours away from airport but that catchment stretches in to ZRH and LYS (who also has a YUL flight) catchments. LYS-BOS was 15 PDEW in 2011.

Unless they need it top tip the scales a mega-contract, B6 may be better off choosing DUS or BRU over GVA if they were to start with hypothetically 5 Transatlantic destinations and three probably being LON PAR DUB for sure.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:34 am

NickolayAv wrote:
It seems like SK's seasonal service of Boston is doing better, because in the Nordic aviation thread they stated that the route will go daily next summer, but will remain seasonal. Good for SK, hopefully the loads will reflect the increase.
On another note, with TSA pre-check expanding to so many intl. airlines is there any plan on creating a separate line for TSA pre-check in Terminal E?


It's nice to see it go daily for 4 and a half of it's almost 6 month run.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:47 am

airbazar wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Lucky's is a good alternative to Legal's, but is not quick.

Having been a frequent visitor to the real Lucky's Lounge (my office used to be right around the corner), I wasn't impressed with Lucky's at terminal A :) I don't fly out of A often tho. I'm a UA FF and my go-to place at B is Stephanie's.


We have probably been in the real Lucky's at the same time. It was (is) a regular watering hole. :)

I saw something interesting tonight - the LHR flight 58 was leaving out of gate A6. I wish I'd gotten a pic of a 767 at that gate. I am glad that I missed the crowding in the terminal.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:57 am

tlecam wrote:
airbazar wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Lucky's is a good alternative to Legal's, but is not quick.

Having been a frequent visitor to the real Lucky's Lounge (my office used to be right around the corner), I wasn't impressed with Lucky's at terminal A :) I don't fly out of A often tho. I'm a UA FF and my go-to place at B is Stephanie's.


We have probably been in the real Lucky's at the same time. It was (is) a regular watering hole. :)

I saw something interesting tonight - the LHR flight 58 was leaving out of gate A6. I wish I'd gotten a pic of a 767 at that gate. I am glad that I missed the crowding in the terminal.

I was there in the adjacent gate - actually gate A8 to be precise and saw the ticker say LHR. I believe the flight said coming in from CVG - maybe I am wrong but it was extremely busy.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:11 am

iyerhari wrote:
tlecam wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Having been a frequent visitor to the real Lucky's Lounge (my office used to be right around the corner), I wasn't impressed with Lucky's at terminal A :) I don't fly out of A often tho. I'm a UA FF and my go-to place at B is Stephanie's.


We have probably been in the real Lucky's at the same time. It was (is) a regular watering hole. :)

I saw something interesting tonight - the LHR flight 58 was leaving out of gate A6. I wish I'd gotten a pic of a 767 at that gate. I am glad that I missed the crowding in the terminal.

I was there in the adjacent gate - actually gate A8 to be precise and saw the ticker say LHR. I believe the flight said coming in from CVG - maybe I am wrong but it was extremely busy.


Well we’ve all been close by as I arrived from AUS at A5 around 11am this morning and it was still a zoo then with a 320 goodness know how crazy it was with a 767 in there.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:09 am

Ha - I was at A9, on the shuttle to LGA. Which departed 7 minutes early, was a short flight and proceeded to sit on the taxiway at LGA for 35 minutes.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:14 am

Saw an SK A340 taking off tonight. Do they usually send the A343 here or was this a one-off?
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:31 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Saw an SK A340 taking off tonight. Do they usually send the A343 here or was this a one-off?

They bring it here occasionally, but usually the A333.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
hynithuchi
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:53 am

Unless they need it top tip the scales a mega-contract, B6 may be better off choosing DUS or BRU over GVA if they were to start with hypothetically 5 Transatlantic destinations and three probably being LON PAR DUB for sure.

Of course BRU and DUS are larger cities, but GVA is also ideally situated as a Swiss and European gateway, in particularly to the the French Alps. Who said that only ZRH could be used as a gateway ? As for comments on "old money ", " stuck in the 1980 ", well, I don't have any money and still live. The city has the same problems and constraints as other old European cities have, but claiming it doesn't move on shows lack knowledge of the city. Concerning using BSL as a hub with a lowcost carrier ( Easyjet ), GVA is a larger hub for them than BSL or ZRH are. Some of the comments seem to suggest that mainly bankers travel to GVA. I doubt that beside skiers, there are 16m bankers flying in and out ! GVA has a potential and a market of its own, now whether it is sufficient for a BOS service remains to be proved.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:17 am

adamh8297 wrote:
I used to be be pro GVA-BOS for all of your reasons but at the end of the day its not a megacity by any means but punches well above its weight concerning BOS. GVA airport does claim catchment of 6.1 million people 2 hours away from airport but that catchment stretches in to ZRH and LYS (who also has a YUL flight) catchments. LYS-BOS was 15 PDEW in 2011.

Unless they need it top tip the scales a mega-contract, B6 may be better off choosing DUS or BRU over GVA if they were to start with hypothetically 5 Transatlantic destinations and three probably being LON PAR DUB for sure.


For me really GVA does not fit with JetBlue :). I see GVA-BOS more of a legacy if anything.

As I said before Basel could be an interesting idea. Maybe not the "Top 5" but arguably when more destinations are added.

Having flown quite a few times to BSL, the airport is very used by people from Western France and SE Germany which is an area somehow not served from BOS (the closest airports being CDG, FRA and ZRH). The city is roughly the same size as Geneva, but the regional catchment area IMO is bigger than Geneva's which, as you mention, nearby "clashes" with LYS or ZRH (I doubt anyone from ZRH makes the way to GVA to take a plane!). I know Zurich Airport is not that far from BSL but bear in mind that once you enter Switzerland (for a French or German flyer) prices duplicate or triplicate (train to ZRH from the border would be easily 30 or 40 USD - despite being only one hour -), I imagine parking in ZRH is very expensive and you even need to pay that "vignette" to drive in Switzerland. The cool thing about BSL is that geographically is inside France and works as a French-Swiss airport, so you don't have those issues.

Also BSL from a tourism perspective for Americans could be interesting. It is not only a gateway for Switzerland and an interesting city by itself (it is the home of Herzog & de Meuron and other well-known international architects; so there are quite a few worth visiting contemporary things like the Vitra campus outside the city - that would appeal to a lot of "millennial" crowd in the BOS area) but also the gateway to Alsace which is one of the most picturesque regions in France and arguably the most famous Christmas markets in Europe (Colmar is 40' by regional train from St Louis - the airport's train station -). That would be interesting for an older crowd. And then it is in the border with Baden-Württemberg which in addition to being one of wealthiest regions in Germany (e.g. much wealthier per capita than NRW - DUS or CGN airports -) and having 11 million people has also its tourist attractions (notably the Black Forest). And as mentioned before, Basel is the undisputed capital of pharma in Switzerland (and those companies are quite close to BSL), with the HQ for Novartis, Roche and Syngenta among others.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:28 am

xorrygva wrote:
GVA region is less “old finance” than 10 years ago. The region has over 20k jobs in pharma, biotech and medtech. Growth in this region has constantly been above Swiss average growth rate over the last 10 years. Lausanne and Vaud region has attracted most start-up money over the last two years in Switzerland.


I understand most of that stuff is around Lausanne / Vaud which somehow has a more diversified economy than Geneva, so still my point is proven right :). Probably having the EPFL in Lausanne there has a lot to, as well as companies like Logitech or Nestlé based in the area. I know Lausanne reference airport is GVA... but still I don't see very well the connection with Boston (other than the EPFL itself). IMO Zurich and Basel have more natural links to the Boston area (from the pharma companies to the ETHZ) than the Suisse Romande.

As for the growth I am surprised. For instance if you check unemployment numbers, unemployment in Suisse Romande is and has been historically higher than in Deutschschweiz.

https://www.ge.ch/document/taux-chomage ... elecharger
 
hynithuchi
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:16 am

BSL will indeed be more competitive when they have a rail link, but for the moment you can forget it as a gateway. Do you really think anybody nowadays wants to travel to BSL by train, then take a public transport bus to the airport ? With hand baggage only, this may just be the last solution but with a family and 2 suitcases, it's not an option. And leaving your own car at an airport parking for 2 weeks will cost you more than the flight ! You made another interesting remark ( nothing to do with BOS ) as well, which I have read many times, even here in Switzerland: "I doubt anyone from ZRH makes the way to GVA to take a plane". Unfortunately you're probably right,for many Swiss Germans, Paris or Berlin are closer than GVA, but maybe you can tell me why a Suisse Romand should be expected to travel to ZRH other than he has no other option because of a lack of a direct flight ? Why can this not work the other way around too ? Sorry, I forgot, Zurich calls itself "Downtown Switzerland"..
 
pmartin
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:58 am

Zurich has a good link to Boston, and Basel is very close to Zurich (one hour by train).

The question is: is there enough substance to justify a flight between BOS and GVA, I think yes, under certain conditions. Jet Blue has mentioned that they were looking for destination that would appreciate its "premium product", GVA is one. Now, will it happen, may be, may be not.

A couple of points on the science and biotech cluster around Lake Geneva, just to put some facts on the table. Yes Basel, is way bigger. In fact, it is the number cluster in Europe by far (CH pharma production is $46bn p.a., 50% more than Germany and Italy, both at $30bn, and the UK at $22bn), and Basel is at the centre of it. If they can get a route to Boston great. Crossair tried Newark a couple years ago (link to the New Jersey pharma cluser, it did not last. Too close to ZRH.

But the Lake Geneva area is a significant science / biotech / medtech centre itself in Europe. Geneva is home to the Campus Biotech, a joint initiative between University of Geneva, EPFL, on the site of the former Serono HQ (https://www.campusbiotech.ch/en). It is home of the Human Brain Project, a European wide Brain research project, Wyss Center for Bio and Neuro Engineering (another Wyss Center is well, in Boston). It is home to the CERN, the largest science lab in the world. EPFL, University of Geneva and Lausanne excel in life science and medicine (Lausanne host a Ludwig Cancer Research Center). And as mentioned earlier, is the main cluster is Switzerland for life science start-ups (in amount raise, GE/VD represented 60% of the cumulative fund raise in life science by Vaud, Geneva, Zurich, Zug and Basel combined, according to the Swiss VCA). Geneva is home to the Medixci life science venture fund, a spin-off of Index Ventures, Europe's premier VC fund. It is the HQ of the World Health Organisation, the Global Fund for AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, GAVI, etc. And so on and so forth. So sorry to disagree, but the region has world class research and academic infrastructure, and a link to Boston is therefore not crazy. Not just "old finance" and "ski" as some would put it.

As for unemployment, please, let's not it mix it with job creation and GDP growth, see p. 25 https://www.gva.ch/en/Portaldata/1/Reso ... hy-GVA.pdf

Anyway, may be GVA will never have a link to Boston, and Basel will. Good for them.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:00 am

I agree with you the "last step" to BSL (that city bus from Basel SBB; or the other bus if you are coming from St Louis in France) is as "Unswiss" as you can think, specially compared to that perfectly timed SBB train to GVA or ZRH. But being a "tri-national" airport certainly makes Basel more attractive to capture French and German customers. When I have flown to BSL, you can hear more French than German in some flights (in fact easyJet makes all the announcements in Frenchs and German) Also somehow Basel is underrated at an international level. As mentioned, Basel has about the same population as Geneva (unless you count Lausanne as "metro Geneva" despite Geneva to Lausanne is not much closer than Basel to Zurich) and I would argue than from a tourism point of view, Basel is more interesting than Geneva. Maybe not for Saudis or rich Nigerians looking for a summer retreat, but for the Boston crowd, Basel and the surrounding areas will offer more interesting things to do.

That people in GVA can easily connect via ZRH, CDG, FRA, LHR, AMS, MAD, JFK, IAD... it is not like there are lack of options. Also many people forget that when discussing legacies, if you are doing (for instance) Geneva-ZRH (train) and ZRH-BOS (non-stop) you are likely paying a "premium" for the direct flight (even if your point of origin isn't Zurich); probably something like GVA-CDG-BOS, GVA-LHR-BOS, etc. works cheaper and quicker since there are other options and carriers are competing with each other.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:53 pm

VS4ever wrote:
jworks158 wrote:
It is official PF has decide to go seasonal in BOS
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 000000taAi


Actually I had a fear they would abandon completely. So this is a pleasant surprise.


Luckily most of their trouble was their own fault. Delivery delays for planes, etc. I think with some marketing behind this route next summer they will have no issues whatsoever.
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:47 pm

Massport has released some further information on the upcoming terminal b to terminal c connector. Slide 3 will show the new layout and added gates. Pier A in terminal B is getting two new gates and the space where the connector is itself is getting an additional gate. It’s an interesting numbering scheme by Massport, I wonder if they will make an adjustment come 2021 when the project is supposed to hit substantial completion.

This project area and Pier A in terminal B covers 17 gates and it looks like there is enough space to fit at every gate any Boeing 737 family plane or any Airbus A300 family plane.

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... iefing.pdf
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:08 pm

B752OS wrote:
Massport has released some further information on the upcoming terminal b to terminal c connector. Slide 3 will show the new layout and added gates. Pier A in terminal B is getting two new gates and the space where the connector is itself is getting an additional gate. It’s an interesting numbering scheme by Massport, I wonder if they will make an adjustment come 2021 when the project is supposed to hit substantial completion.

This project area and Pier A in terminal B covers 17 gates and it looks like there is enough space to fit at every gate any Boeing 737 family plane or any Airbus A300 family plane.

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... iefing.pdf

Does the plan include connecting the AS and SY gates to the rest of Terminal C?
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:56 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Massport has released some further information on the upcoming terminal b to terminal c connector. Slide 3 will show the new layout and added gates. Pier A in terminal B is getting two new gates and the space where the connector is itself is getting an additional gate. It’s an interesting numbering scheme by Massport, I wonder if they will make an adjustment come 2021 when the project is supposed to hit substantial completion.

This project area and Pier A in terminal B covers 17 gates and it looks like there is enough space to fit at every gate any Boeing 737 family plane or any Airbus A300 family plane.

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... iefing.pdf

Does the plan include connecting the AS and SY gates to the rest of Terminal C?


Look at the plans. The gates AS and SY currently occupy will be opened up to the rest of Terminal C and have a direct post security connection to Terminal B. Those passengers will not go through the main Terminal C security checkpoint instead of the current small one that handles those gates. I could be wrong, but I am not sure once all of the projects are done that AS and SY will occupy those gates. I believe they are moving over to Pier A in Terminal B.
 
AviationAddict
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:11 pm

IMO it seems like the new gate, B43 should really be C43. It is on the B side of the GSE alleyway separating B and C but, from an actual structural point of view, it looks like it is attached to terminal C.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:19 am

B752OS wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Massport has released some further information on the upcoming terminal b to terminal c connector. Slide 3 will show the new layout and added gates. Pier A in terminal B is getting two new gates and the space where the connector is itself is getting an additional gate. It’s an interesting numbering scheme by Massport, I wonder if they will make an adjustment come 2021 when the project is supposed to hit substantial completion.

This project area and Pier A in terminal B covers 17 gates and it looks like there is enough space to fit at every gate any Boeing 737 family plane or any Airbus A300 family plane.

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... iefing.pdf

Does the plan include connecting the AS and SY gates to the rest of Terminal C?


Look at the plans. The gates AS and SY currently occupy will be opened up to the rest of Terminal C and have a direct post security connection to Terminal B. Those passengers will not go through the main Terminal C security checkpoint instead of the current small one that handles those gates. I could be wrong, but I am not sure once all of the projects are done that AS and SY will occupy those gates. I believe they are moving over to Pier A in Terminal B.


They are definitely moving back to B, B6 will be granted to 29 gates in C (including the new one being built by C21 and C43) and a 30th gate which is E1 is prioritized now for their use.
Page 125 of the attached shows the plans presented at the Jan board meeting (things can obviously change)
http://massport.com/media/2704/01182018 ... ermark.pdf
But AS/VX will be moving from C41 & C42 to B35 & B36 in Pier A as you suggest. SY will actually be moving to Pier B, although even on those plans it has not been stated which gate they will likely use.

I think there was an error on that chart in the capital projects deck. That gate has been planned to be C43, to skip 5 gate numbers from B38 to B43 does not make a lot of sense, that said, I could see a renumbering happen when the 2 new gates for WN are built, rather than have B32A and B35A I can see a renumbering, with B38 becoming B40 and the other following in line.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:54 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
It seems like SK's seasonal service of Boston is doing better, because in the Nordic aviation thread they stated that the route will go daily next summer, but will remain seasonal. Good for SK, hopefully the loads will reflect the increase.
On another note, with TSA pre-check expanding to so many intl. airlines is there any plan on creating a separate line for TSA pre-check in Terminal E?


The SK flight resumes 3/31/18 at 4 weekly (x236) and then goes daily on 5/5/18.

The T-100 loads were putrid in February 2018 for BOS-CPH = 25%!!!!!! Sometimes frequency cuts can hurt you more. I thought it would have been neat to slide in 3x ARN with 4x CPH since they do something similar with MIA but daily CPH is better than 4 weekly for travelling options.

Their schedule is not the best either (5:30 pm departure from BOS). I prefer 7:30pm and later for Transatlantic.

EDIT: It also appears that SK's new North America strategy involves MIA = Winter BOS = Summer.

You will need to translate the link.
https://finalcall.travel/no/sas-sommerl ... ami-ruten/

I would at least go for an interline agreement with B6 if I were SK.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:02 pm

adamh8297 wrote:

Here's my thoughts on the "nexts"

Next domestic destination: BZN - B6 will launch it summer seasonal now that they opened a station there.
Next international destination: ARN 3x weekly summer by SK to complement the CPH route.
Next international carrier: Air Italy but it may be Summer 2020. I think its just going to be KL and KE for 2019.


Looks like I am wrong on the 3rd guess also along with the second: The OAG thread has UP (Bahamasair) starting (maybe resuming???) BOS-NAS in May 2019. I couldn't see anything in Amadeus or ITA. Its either weekly or bi-weekly.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:26 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

Here's my thoughts on the "nexts"

Next domestic destination: BZN - B6 will launch it summer seasonal now that they opened a station there.
Next international destination: ARN 3x weekly summer by SK to complement the CPH route.
Next international carrier: Air Italy but it may be Summer 2020. I think its just going to be KL and KE for 2019.


Looks like I am wrong on the 3rd guess also along with the second: The OAG thread has UP (Bahamasair) starting (maybe resuming???) BOS-NAS in May 2019. I couldn't see anything in Amadeus or ITA. Its either weekly or bi-weekly.

Well, I was wrong. I was expecting a longer wait until the next intl. carrier arrives. It's going to be nice to see their livery at BOS, I would also assume that they will do it on the 737-500 which is a rare sight at BOS. I wish the airline luck putting up a fight against B6 and DL though.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:34 pm

Delta increasing frequencies on the PIT route, now that AA is bowing out. Up to 4 daily frequencies next May.

The Bahamasair route is interesting. I wonder what the trigger is?
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:40 pm

Does anyone know which airlines have pilot and FA bases in BOS?

B6, obviously.

Last I knew, I don’t think that DL had a pilot base in BOS, but that they did have a FA base.
I believe that AA had pilot and FA bases courtesy of US Air, but I have no idea what remains. My last flight from BOS-MIA, a 757/767 pilot was flying from BOS to Miami to go to work because her 757/767 base had closed in BOS.
I have no idea whether UA has any sort of base in BOS.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
aaflyer777
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:57 pm

tlecam wrote:
Does anyone know which airlines have pilot and FA bases in BOS?

B6, obviously.

Last I knew, I don’t think that DL had a pilot base in BOS, but that they did have a FA base.
I believe that AA had pilot and FA bases courtesy of US Air, but I have no idea what remains. My last flight from BOS-MIA, a 757/767 pilot was flying from BOS to Miami to go to work because her 757/767 base had closed in BOS.
I have no idea whether UA has any sort of base in BOS.


US air closed their BOS crew base in 2009 so AA didn't inherit a BOS base from them but I think LAA had a 737 base in BOS which is still operating. Last I heard it was a small very senior base but I heard rumors they were considering opening the base to new bids. I think UA has an FA base in BOS, wouldn't be surprised to see DL or one of the DL connection carriers open a pilot base in BOS in the next few years.
 
AviationAddict
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:34 pm

I’m surprised AA has a 737 base at BOS considering they’ve only been flying that type to BOS for what, 7-8 years now? Especially considering how much AA has pulled back in recent years. When I worked at Logan back in 2007 AA was all MD80 & 757 (plus 767 & 777 for the CDG & LHR routes). Did the 737 base replace an MD80 base?
Last edited by AviationAddict on Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:46 pm

AA has a small base partly inherited from legacy LUS. When LUS officially closed their base, some long standing FAs still managed to stay there. One of the FA who typically is there on the BOS-DCA segment told me AA plans to again start the base although not to the scale of their hubs.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:45 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I'm in suspense for the Western European data from VS4Ever :smile:


Sorry dude, currently on business in MCO world, but I will get it done before I go to AUS next week :)


Yes?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:36 am

Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I'm in suspense for the Western European data from VS4Ever :smile:


Sorry dude, currently on business in MCO world, but I will get it done before I go to AUS next week :)


Yes?


As the Cylons say in Battlestar Galatica - "By your Command"... here you go, the final installment of the international series of analysis. Thanks for putting up with the long posts and for the positive feedback... Until next year!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part 6c – Western Europe

The final regional part of the analysis includes the remaining regular routes going to France, Germany, Switzerland & Holland

Overall
----------
The Western European market continues to be centered around FRA, MUC, CDG, ZRH and AMS, while it did get rattled a bit when EW turned up with CGN and AB with DUS, those routes are now closed, so we are back to the way we were. The LH group basically control FRA, MUC and ZRH through LH and LX respectively, AMS is a DL stronghold, although KL is joining in 2019 as part of the DL/KL/AF JV. CDG during the period reported was AA/DL and AF. AA is now off the route and DY/PF have joined in, so that market will be seriously congested.

The market itself has been up and down given the issues with CGN and DUS, but when all said and done grew by 8.2% in terms of seats from 1.29m to 1.4m and 9.2% in terms of pax from 1.06 to 1.16m, resulting in a minor kick from 81.8% to 82.5% loads. Although the 2017 numbers were supported by 77k seats from AB, which will not repeat in 18.

What I will say is that these numbers alone do not tell the whole story and you will see why.

Equipment:
----------------
Start with the easy one. AA, using the B752 on their CDG run, DL on the AMS and CDG routes were pretty much 333’s all the way now having moved up from 764’s, next comes LX with their 332’s and about 1/4 usage of 343’s. AF, now we start seeing the fleet shifts going on, they phased out their 744’s in 2016, with the 772 and 773 picking up the slack and a mixture that further includes the 332. Then our friends at LH who have thrown pretty much every long haul type they have with one Whale (see what I did there) of an exception. Yep the 388 never showed, even though Massports own comments suggested they were supposed to be #3 for the type to show up after EK and BA. Most of the legwork now is done by the 364 seater 748, 293 seater 359 and 218 seater 332.

BOS-AMS (DL)
------------------
Putting the route to the side for a minute, if you stop to see the size of DL’s operation at AMS, it really is quite impressive as you walk through the terminal. DL Tails everywhere, from BOS, DTW, ATL, and many more. But back to BOS, there’s a reason why KL are coming in 2019 and it’s been building since 2014. DL have grown seats by 14% using a combo of 2x daily’s and bigger aircraft (last big push was from a combo of 764’s and 333’s to full time 333’s. As a result DL’s average seat count grew from 276 back in 2014 up to 292 in 2017. And from 297K to 338K in total. Pax counts have grown too at a very close approximation to capacity growth 13.7% to be exact, which when you throw 34,000 extra seats in a market is pretty good going and thus loads have been maintained at 84% on 285K pax. Summer loads have been a respectable 86.3% in 2017 and that was maintained through Dec. only Jan to March seem to suffer with Feb the worst at less than 70%. So chalk this one up to a growth model, 2018 will be interesting, as DL do not have anything bigger available to throw at the route, so I am guessing we are going to see a further uptick in loads and thus capacity %’s and going 17-18 weekly when KL arrives is only going to boost this route further. I know I am going to love trying to catch one of those gorgeous blue tails at BOS, trust me seeing them at AMS is impressive enough..

BOS-CDG (DL/AF/AA)
------------------
You know sometimes, you think you know a route, and then sometimes, you suddenly see what’s going on and your mind gets blown. CDG is that route. What a freaking mess this one is.

AA
----
So first up on the Wheel of Fortune (all rights reserved by TV) is AA, now their version of the route is dead, having given up when DY and PF announced they were wading into the route. AA kind of threw everything at this one. Extending the season for one by a couple of months, but it was surviving on the front of the house and I think AA were looking for an excuse to get rid. Now between 14 and 17 AA actually doubled the number of seats on the route from 24K to 48K and surprisingly the pax followed suit from 18 to 38k, so you think well 133 avg pax and 78% loads would have been enough to see this through, but I think 2016 killed this one when loads on average for the whole year dropped below 60% and 100 pax per flight on a 752. And remember this is a summer seasonal route. Winter is not an excuse… tragic.

DL/AF
---
The thing you have to always remember is the JV with AF, so it’s all neutral over time, but you’ll see what has happened here in a few moments, This is the clearest case of metal neutral shenanigans that you will ever see, it took them a couple of years to align it but it’s there. So back in 2014. AF ran 295k seats on this route with 236k pax enjoying their world for a roughly 80% load. Nothing wrong with that. DL for their part ran 78k seats and 67K pax for a pretty impressive 86% load. Let’s also bear in mind in 2014, DL was only seasonal, they went year round in 2016 and that on average DL was running 184 seats vs AF’s 331.
By 2017 the world was a bit different, DL had moved their seat count up by 40k (remember that number) to 128k and 210 seats per flight for a 64% increase. Their pax count moved up from 67K to 105k (although that latter number was lower than 2016 by 5k) for a 55% increase to a decent 81% load and lest not forget we are year round by this point.
AF on the other hand went in reverse from 295k to…..yes you guessed it 255K a reduction of (wait for it!) 40k….seat count average dropped from 331 to 290 as a result of using smaller aircraft once the 744’s went away. Over the 14-17 period pax count dropped from 236k to 222k (6.1%), however 16-17 it went up by 8.1% from 205k to 222k, more than covering DL’s drop, but interestingly back to 14-17 average pax count went down from 265 to 252. So seats counts switch, more pax overall and everyone’s a winner. Got to love those JV’s…

So who knows what’s going to happen in 18, I’m still getting my head around the AF/DL thing..


BOS-FRA (LH)
----------------------------
Despite owning EW, nobody I think was happier than LH when AB and EW stopped their DUS and CGN routes respectively. This is definitely an old shoe route, it’s always going to be there when you need it. However LH have been pruning frequency and flights in 2017, the flight count reduced by 3.1%, which is a total of around 15 flights each way. But interestingly there was a 15% reduction in seats, with an increase of around 140 flights with the 364 seat 748, but a decrease of net 170 flights from the 744 with 371 seats to the 332 with 216. Probably in response to the AB DUS capacity. Overall it seemed to work, as pax counts only dropped by 4.8% from 16-17 to 259K and 264 pax per flight for a 82.4% load for the year as a whole, however that count was the lowest in 4 years as 2015 peaked with 284 per flight, however with the potentially lower running costs of the 332, it could be argued that yields might have been a little better, however it’s just a theory.
Summer season was an ok 86%, but was a whole lot better than the horrible year that was 2016, where they managed a dire 73.4% with a terrible 59% in May and it wasn’t much better for the whole year. So the capacity change made sense based on that and seemed to stem the tide. 2018 should be better in theory now AB are gone.

BOS-MUC (LH)
-----------------
LH #2 route with MUC is another old shoe route, it’s been going for a long time now and in general performs a little worse than FRA overall. Flights have increased slightly from 14-17 by 3.6% and the seat counts have moved up by 9% from 187K to 205K during the same period and in fact the pax haven’t quite followed in the same numbers, but it’s been close, moved up by 11K from 152K to 163K, up to 229 per flight and 7.3% growth, as a result average loads have moved down from 81.1% to 79.9%, so not bad, but not exactly earth shattering either. Summer seasonal for 2017 of 84.5% isn’t crazy, but again not terrible either.
The capacity growth here has been from switching equipment primarily with the 293 seat A359 taking over the majority of the duties from the 332 and 346’s, while we often say folks rarely care what aircraft they fly on, there is some empirical evidence that suggests folks do like flying on the newer types…
Nothing really going to change here, so I expect 18 to mirror 17, with maybe an uplift due to the loss of DUS, but not much.

BOS-ZRH (LX)
-----------------
Last but not least comes ZRH, run by Swiss (aka LH group). 14 and 15 were the standard year round 1x daily, but in 16 and 17 LX ran a seasonal 2x daily and as it turns out, it’s kind of worked. Seats have grown from 168K in 2014 to 214K in 2017, however 2017 is a reduction of 9.5% over 2016 and that’s ok, because their loads increased by an average of 5% as a result, 14 managed 83.9% for the year, 17, 80.9%, but on a much larger number of flights. Pax counts went up from 141K in 2014 to 173K in 2017, which dropped the average pax per flight from 197 to 188, but again losing 9 on 200+ more flights is not that bad overall. Summer seasonal for 2017 was 84.9%, which again like MUC and FRA was respectable without being incredible, but this is after adding the 2nd flight in… so you can’t really complain, clearly there was enough of a market lift there to do that.

The Western European market has seen some growth over time, but you can see the power of the airlines on these routes, EW died very quickly, AB couldn’t handle it either, so after 2 years of fun, we are back to status quo, although with DY and PF entering the CDG market at the expense of AA, 2018 will be even more fragmented. ZRH going double daily in summer will help the growth, but until other airlines come into this, this is what we will get.


Data Source: BTS T-100 International Segment Report (All Carriers)
Data File used for information located here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... Vp3SE8zaUE
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:10 am

VS4ever wrote:
As the Cylons say in Battlestar Galatica - "By your Command"... here you go, the final installment of the international series of analysis. Thanks for putting up with the long posts and for the positive feedback... Until next year!

BOS-FRA (LH)
----------------------------
Despite owning EW, nobody I think was happier than LH when AB and EW stopped their DUS and CGN routes respectively. This is definitely an old shoe route, it’s always going to be there when you need it. However LH have been pruning frequency and flights in 2017, the flight count reduced by 3.1%, which is a total of around 15 flights each way. But interestingly there was a 15% reduction in seats, with an increase of around 140 flights with the 364 seat 748, but a decrease of net 170 flights from the 744 with 371 seats to the 332 with 216. Probably in response to the AB DUS capacity. Overall it seemed to work, as pax counts only dropped by 4.8% from 16-17 to 259K and 264 pax per flight for a 82.4% load for the year as a whole, however that count was the lowest in 4 years as 2015 peaked with 284 per flight, however with the potentially lower running costs of the 332, it could be argued that yields might have been a little better, however it’s just a theory.
Summer season was an ok 86%, but was a whole lot better than the horrible year that was 2016, where they managed a dire 73.4% with a terrible 59% in May and it wasn’t much better for the whole year. So the capacity change made sense based on that and seemed to stem the tide. 2018 should be better in theory now AB are gone.

BOS-MUC (LH)
-----------------
LH #2 route with MUC is another old shoe route, it’s been going for a long time now and in general performs a little worse than FRA overall. Flights have increased slightly from 14-17 by 3.6% and the seat counts have moved up by 9% from 187K to 205K during the same period and in fact the pax haven’t quite followed in the same numbers, but it’s been close, moved up by 11K from 152K to 163K, up to 229 per flight and 7.3% growth, as a result average loads have moved down from 81.1% to 79.9%, so not bad, but not exactly earth shattering either. Summer seasonal for 2017 of 84.5% isn’t crazy, but again not terrible either.
The capacity growth here has been from switching equipment primarily with the 293 seat A359 taking over the majority of the duties from the 332 and 346’s, while we often say folks rarely care what aircraft they fly on, there is some empirical evidence that suggests folks do like flying on the newer types…
Nothing really going to change here, so I expect 18 to mirror 17, with maybe an uplift due to the loss of DUS, but not much.

Huge thank you for this series VS4ever. I can't imagine how much work this has taken, it was great to read.
Just a quick correction, I believe LH hasn't had the A332 since '06, I think they are only on the A333s nowadays.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:18 am

Maybe the “AF/DL thing” is simply related to ditching the A744 gas guzzler? As a result, they had to move seats around to keep the same lift. Meaning, DL got more while AF got less.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:02 am

NickolayAv wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
As the Cylons say in Battlestar Galatica - "By your Command"... here you go, the final installment of the international series of analysis. Thanks for putting up with the long posts and for the positive feedback... Until next year!

BOS-FRA (LH)
----------------------------
Despite owning EW, nobody I think was happier than LH when AB and EW stopped their DUS and CGN routes respectively. This is definitely an old shoe route, it’s always going to be there when you need it. However LH have been pruning frequency and flights in 2017, the flight count reduced by 3.1%, which is a total of around 15 flights each way. But interestingly there was a 15% reduction in seats, with an increase of around 140 flights with the 364 seat 748, but a decrease of net 170 flights from the 744 with 371 seats to the 332 with 216. Probably in response to the AB DUS capacity. Overall it seemed to work, as pax counts only dropped by 4.8% from 16-17 to 259K and 264 pax per flight for a 82.4% load for the year as a whole, however that count was the lowest in 4 years as 2015 peaked with 284 per flight, however with the potentially lower running costs of the 332, it could be argued that yields might have been a little better, however it’s just a theory.
Summer season was an ok 86%, but was a whole lot better than the horrible year that was 2016, where they managed a dire 73.4% with a terrible 59% in May and it wasn’t much better for the whole year. So the capacity change made sense based on that and seemed to stem the tide. 2018 should be better in theory now AB are gone.

BOS-MUC (LH)
-----------------
LH #2 route with MUC is another old shoe route, it’s been going for a long time now and in general performs a little worse than FRA overall. Flights have increased slightly from 14-17 by 3.6% and the seat counts have moved up by 9% from 187K to 205K during the same period and in fact the pax haven’t quite followed in the same numbers, but it’s been close, moved up by 11K from 152K to 163K, up to 229 per flight and 7.3% growth, as a result average loads have moved down from 81.1% to 79.9%, so not bad, but not exactly earth shattering either. Summer seasonal for 2017 of 84.5% isn’t crazy, but again not terrible either.
The capacity growth here has been from switching equipment primarily with the 293 seat A359 taking over the majority of the duties from the 332 and 346’s, while we often say folks rarely care what aircraft they fly on, there is some empirical evidence that suggests folks do like flying on the newer types…
Nothing really going to change here, so I expect 18 to mirror 17, with maybe an uplift due to the loss of DUS, but not much.

Huge thank you for this series VS4ever. I can't imagine how much work this has taken, it was great to read.
Just a quick correction, I believe LH hasn't had the A332 since '06, I think they are only on the A333s nowadays.



Thanks for the supportive words, it is appreciated. To your LH comment, understood, hence why i always state, the information is only as good as provided into the T-100's, a lot of it is good, some of it, not so and you are going to get situations like this sadly, let's all remember the EI 332's on everything and QR have been sending 773's to BOS since day 1... I try and clean it up, but nuances between 332's and 333's will oft get missed i am afraid.

I hope to do more regular updates soon, but we will see how life goes in general over the next few months. Sadly i have some personal matters to attend to that are taking a big chunk of my time that i would devote to keeping things updated. Fingers Crossed.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tjerome
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:28 am

VS4ever wrote:
B752OS wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Does the plan include connecting the AS and SY gates to the rest of Terminal C?


Look at the plans. The gates AS and SY currently occupy will be opened up to the rest of Terminal C and have a direct post security connection to Terminal B. Those passengers will not go through the main Terminal C security checkpoint instead of the current small one that handles those gates. I could be wrong, but I am not sure once all of the projects are done that AS and SY will occupy those gates. I believe they are moving over to Pier A in Terminal B.


They are definitely moving back to B, B6 will be granted to 29 gates in C (including the new one being built by C21 and C43) and a 30th gate which is E1 is prioritized now for their use.
Page 125 of the attached shows the plans presented at the Jan board meeting (things can obviously change)
http://massport.com/media/2704/01182018 ... ermark.pdf
But AS/VX will be moving from C41 & C42 to B35 & B36 in Pier A as you suggest. SY will actually be moving to Pier B, although even on those plans it has not been stated which gate they will likely use.

I think there was an error on that chart in the capital projects deck. That gate has been planned to be C43, to skip 5 gate numbers from B38 to B43 does not make a lot of sense, that said, I could see a renumbering happen when the 2 new gates for WN are built, rather than have B32A and B35A I can see a renumbering, with B38 becoming B40 and the other following in line.


I really do hope that they re-number all of B and C considering all of the changes that have been/will be made there. Might as well do it all in one event and would be great to see the AA pier by Terminal A to be ordered around the pier rather than the evens on the Terminal A side and the odds by taxiway Echo.

iyerhari wrote:
AA has a small base partly inherited from legacy LUS. When LUS officially closed their base, some long standing FAs still managed to stay there. One of the FA who typically is there on the BOS-DCA segment told me AA plans to again start the base although not to the scale of their hubs.


AA has new hire FAs based in BOS, not sure about pilots but it seems like they have some based there (or just a lot that live in the area if not based there). DL has a FA base with over 700 based there, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a 320 pilot base sometime in the future since its the most common fleet flown in.
 
alexdelzotto1
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:13 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
hynithuchi wrote:
If UA can operate profitably to EWR and IAD, AC to YUL, I think there should be a case for a GVA-BOS flight.


Neither Boston as a hub nor Boston as a market and city are in the same league as New York dba Newark, DC or Montreal.


While I agree with you about New York/Newark, what are you basing Montreal on that you claim it's in a different league than BOS? Population? Number of international airlines that fly there/serve it?

*In 2017 YUL served 18 million passengers. That same year BOS served more than double that with 38.4 million passengers

*In 2017 YUL served 3.7 million international passengers. That same year BOS served just shy of 5 million international passenger (4.97 million to be exact)

*BOS has 35 international airlines that operate there. YUL has 26.

*BOS combined statistical area has 8.1 million people. YUL has 4.1 million

Aside from the fact that perhaps YUL and GVA are Francophone cities, I don't see what would make BOS such an "out of YUL's league" city.


I'm not sure exactly where you got your numbers from, but last I checked in 2017, YUL served 11.2 million international passengers.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:30 am

Just wondering about the UP service to Boston. Is there a chance that the OAG thread was a misfile? There have not been any announcements and on the OAG thread it only appeared for one month, not for a few in a row like they usually do for new routes.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:36 am

Hainan bringing one of their new A350s to Boston, on the Beijing route.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:59 am

chrisnh wrote:
Hainan bringing one of their new A350s to Boston, on the Beijing route.

When? I thought HU doesn't have their A350s yet.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:18 am

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

Neither Boston as a hub nor Boston as a market and city are in the same league as New York dba Newark, DC or Montreal.


While I agree with you about New York/Newark, what are you basing Montreal on that you claim it's in a different league than BOS? Population? Number of international airlines that fly there/serve it?

*In 2017 YUL served 18 million passengers. That same year BOS served more than double that with 38.4 million passengers

*In 2017 YUL served 3.7 million international passengers. That same year BOS served just shy of 5 million international passenger (4.97 million to be exact)

*BOS has 35 international airlines that operate there. YUL has 26.

*BOS combined statistical area has 8.1 million people. YUL has 4.1 million

Aside from the fact that perhaps YUL and GVA are Francophone cities, I don't see what would make BOS such an "out of YUL's league" city.


I'm not sure exactly where you got your numbers from, but last I checked in 2017, YUL served 11.2 million international passengers.


From Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3% ... al_Airport. But I see I quoted their YTD numbers for 2018. 2017 International (not transborder*) was 7.1 million

*I excluded transborder because the reason I was quoting just international was because it was related to a BOS-GVA discussion.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:44 am

NickolayAv wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Hainan bringing one of their new A350s to Boston, on the Beijing route.

When? I thought HU doesn't have their A350s yet.


Is it a one-off? When? The A350 production list shows they got one close to ready that was leased from JJ/LA.
https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbpr ... ction-list
They have 4 in the queue.


NickolayAv wrote:
Just wondering about the UP service to Boston. Is there a chance that the OAG thread was a misfile? There have not been any announcements and on the OAG thread it only appeared for one month, not for a few in a row like they usually do for new routes.


enilria tends to go only 9 months out on the weekly OAG update. For example, only May was listed for BOS-CPH going daily but its bookable through July 2019.

It still could be a misfile or something else. I think the route is a head scratcher since NAS is well served from BOS unless they are trying to get people to the other islands... but why not have an interline with B6 or DL?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:47 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 1050161002
Primera Air adding BOS-BRU. Closing a long seen gap in Europe. Wish them luck, hopefully better than BHX.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:55 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1050161002
Primera Air adding BOS-BRU. Closing a long seen gap in Europe. Wish them luck, hopefully better than BHX.


Not who i thought would start the route, but great all the same, can't see it for sale yet, so can't see the timings... but another feather in the cap if it stays (unlike BHX)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
georgiabill
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Butts in seat does not always equal profits. But I remember flying on SN'S DC-10"S back in the 80'S. Good loads 80 to 90% loads factors(estimating). That being said after the demise of SN another airline tried the route with MD-11'S. (sorry forget the name of said carrier) service did not last very long. That being said I wish them well and will most likely book them to fly to BRU from BOS as BRU is a very interesting city for me.
That being said does anyone think RAM would consider adding CMN-BOS-CMN to connect to their network?
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:32 pm

georgiabill wrote:
That being said does anyone think RAM would consider adding CMN-BOS-CMN to connect to their network?

Honestly, I think it's only a matter of time until that route gets announced.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:16 pm

VS4ever wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1050161002
Primera Air adding BOS-BRU. Closing a long seen gap in Europe. Wish them luck, hopefully better than BHX.


Not who i thought would start the route, but great all the same, can't see it for sale yet, so can't see the timings...


From the main thread:

BRU-BOS begins June 2nd
PF3521 BRU 1920 BOS 2135 7M9 2356
PF3522 BOS 2305 BRU 1200 7M9 2356
@DadCelo
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:18 am

gatibosgru wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1050161002
Primera Air adding BOS-BRU. Closing a long seen gap in Europe. Wish them luck, hopefully better than BHX.


Not who i thought would start the route, but great all the same, can't see it for sale yet, so can't see the timings...


From the main thread:

BRU-BOS begins June 2nd
PF3521 BRU 1920 BOS 2135 7M9 2356
PF3522 BOS 2305 BRU 1200 7M9 2356


A little late to get into BRU generally, but not sure the market they are primarily going for really cares about an early morning arrival, still the slot works nicely as it's after the main crush, assuming not big delays behind it. Clearly despite the failure of BHX (which i think is for a number of different reasons), they feel strong enough about STN and CDG to also add BRU into the mix from BOS. Who'd have said that PF end up flying more routes TATL than DY, EI, LH, VS out of BOS, add another and they'll be tied with DL (LHR, AMS, CDG, DUB), the big question is whether they are making money on it. and curious on this one they are using the MAX not the 321...
Still BRU was one we had talked about for a while, and now we have it and amazingly with all the shifts that have recently taken place apart from 20.30 to 21.30 there are gaps in the schedule for Terminal E as far as I can tell. Right now that single time slot is still a mess and with B6 guaranteed E1 as part of their deal with Massport for their MEX flight, somebody is playing musical chairs without a chair. Always fun at BOS... but I am happy to see them keep pulling these flights in. 2019 is going to be another record, I think. Now if only EK could get off their a$$ and restore the 2nd flight, the numbers would be through the roof again.. however i am not holding my breath, if i did, I would be very blue.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10251
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:10 pm

VS4ever wrote:
BRU-BOS begins June 2nd
PF3521 BRU 1920 BOS 2135 7M9 2356
PF3522 BOS 2305 BRU 1200 7M9 2356

A little late to get into BRU generally, but not sure the market they are primarily going for really cares about an early morning arrival, still the slot works nicely as it's after the main crush, assuming not big delays behind it.

This is nearly perfect for leisure traffic. Most hotels won't let you check-in before 3pm. Would be nicer if the BRU-BOS leg departed a couple of hours earlier but beggers can't be choosers :)

NickolayAv wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
That being said does anyone think RAM would consider adding CMN-BOS-CMN to connect to their network?

Honestly, I think it's only a matter of time until that route gets announced.

Really? Never thought this would even be a market worth discussing. The majority of tourism is to Marrakesh not CMN but I can't imagine that is a big number from BOS to begin with. And from what I hear connecting at CMN is nothing short of a gamble. TP already serves CMN/RAK/FEZ from LIS but unfortunately only the JFK flight offers good connections in both direction. If TP were to add a morning departure from BOS which I hope they'll do with the A321LR, LIS would immediately become the most attractive hub for Morocco and even lots of Africa.

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