Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:52 am

Ok, time to publish the On-time Performance Data I pulled last month, but now including August Data.

Link to my report: https://drive.google.com/open?id=16xxqX ... 7HVKhjZSLL

Caveats

Like any tables from the DOT they have their limits, here's this tables:

1. Data only from Jan 2018, no previous comparatives at the regional carrier level available, although total carrier level is available for prior years i have ignored this for the purposes of the exercise.
2. Domestic, PR and USVI only, no international data available.
3. Carriers reporting: DL, UA, AA, WN, B6, NK, AS
4. Carriers reporting regional ops, DL, UA, AA
5. AS is combined with VX
6. As this is the BOS thread. only BOS routes are included. To do much more is beyond the power of my computing, 7 months alone provided me with 176,000 rows of data, to pull MA, I removed anything not related to BOS, although for B6, I do have the figures for ORH, which i have added to the file.
7. For this version, i have done a Month (Aug) , QTD (Jul/Aug), YTD (Jan to Aug).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How the report works:

New Information
This month, I have figured out how to pull which Tail for each airline has passed through BOS the most, it does not give me actual model data, but for future months i may look that up if I can. I have added the Tail number and the number of times it passed through. For a couple of airlines, the data is not 100% complete, so the largest number is a "blank", so I have gone with the next largest number to have a reference.


Section 1 -
a) Bidirectional data of number of flights, cancellations and diverts, showing a net completion # and % along with a rough average stage length, grand totals attempt to be weighted average, still working through that.
b) Average Elapsed Time is total flight time including air and ground, separated by air and ground underneath. Ground time is effectively a combination of Taxi Time out (departure) and Taxi Time in (arrival) at the relevant airports.
c) # of aircraft used: this is quite awesome information, although i wish it was just a little more detailed, basically this table has "tail reg" information, so i can actually count how many aircraft are used by each carrier. I can actually dive into how many on a particular route if needed, but i do not have aircraft types or load factors in these tables, so please do not ask if i do!. However what I DO have is which aircraft are used on which route on a given day and by flight number, and times if you are interested, please ask. I also have the detailed tables for each airline, but be warned they are big, so it's unlikely i can send them directly to you.

Section 2 -
IMPORTANT NOTE: This is OUTBOUND from BOS only information, so it's not the same as section 1.
# of flights, cancellations and diversions for a % completion factor, # of departures per day is based on the the gross number not the net and remember does NOT include international, so complaining that DL are at 115 for example and the data is wrong, is incorrect, because as noted, it's domestic only.. sorry.

Section 3
Also OUTBOUND only
This is On Time Performance, so net of cancellations, how many were delayed out of BOS, On-time as defined by DOT is leaving less than 15 minutes late, % OTP to see who is doing better than others. The departures per day shows how many flights are getting off the ground as opposed to section 2, which is how many are supposed to each day.

Section 4
I'm still getting to grips with this section, however basically a breakout of the key delay factors reported by this table i am working with. Carrier Delay is delays caused by non-aircraft carrier activities, Weather and ATC are obvious, then there is Inbound aircraft delay as well. ALSO OUTBOUND from BOS info.

Section 5
Breakdown of why flights are cancelled by category, whether by the carrier, Weather or ATC

Section 6
Breakdown of how long flights were delayed for and how many
-2 to 0 - on time
12 = 180+, no limit, others are blocked by 15 minute intervals.

Other Info
Highest and Lowest in each section, for those with multi-carriers, i have split those out on separate tabs for viewing along with ORH information for B6.


Commentary

Month - August
AS wins the outbound flights completed award (as a percentage) having only suffered 3 cancellations and 2 diversions and a 98.59% completion rate, the wooden spoon goes to AA that suffered 150 cancellations and 11 diversions for a 94.31% completion. DL's cancellations of 93 (more than B6), were pretty much all driven by YX and 9E, their regionals, which confirms that this is what they do potentially to keep their mainline numbers up. AA gave up 102 mainline as well.
B6 ran 145 departures on average per day, DL 97 and AA 91,

On-time performance is a lot different. WN winning this one with a 77.9% rating, roughly 3.5% above average for the data. NK brings up the rear with 68.24% along with B6 at 72.75% in 6th place.

Overall 53% of flights departed early and AA managed to get nearly 60% of theirs out in that category, followed by B6 with 55%. However once you get past that, everything flips with the on-time 0-15 minutes late category going to WN with 30% and AS/VX with 28%, AA and B6 drop to 18 and 17% respectively.
The late category shows DL, NK and UA having over 3.5% of their flights delayed over 3 hours. B6 is less, but wins on total due to the massively higher number of flights.
In terms of reasons why flights were late, NK got hammered with 61 minute ATC delays on average (when planes were late), DL suffered from inbound aircraft being 43 minutes late (WN was second with 52) and B6 drove the most carrier delays at an average of 25 minutes.
341 flights out of 13,335 recorded (domestic-outbound only) were delayed more than 3 hours. More surprisingly, 31 flights departed more than 15 minutes Early...

I'll pass on the QTD for this month, so will move on to YTD

YTD - August
UA wins the outbound flights completed award (as a percentage) with a 97.32% completion rate, the wooden spoon goes to AA that suffered 1,005 cancellations and 53 diversions for a 95.42% completion. 60% of DL's cancellations of 688 were driven by YX and 9E, their regionals, which confirms that this is what they do potentially to keep their mainline numbers up. AA gave up 792 mainline which is roughly 80% of their total.
B6 ran 137 departures per day, DL 88 and AA 85,

On-time performance is a lot different. AA wins YTD with a 81.97% rating, roughly 4.6% above average for the data. B6 brings up the rear with 70.74% which is 6% lower than 6th placed NK.

Overall 56% of flights departed early and AA managed to get nearly 65% of theirs out in that category, followed by AS & DL with 59%. However once you get past that, everything flips with the on-time 0-15 minutes late category going to WN with 29% and UA with 22%, AA and NK drop to 17 and 18% respectively.
The late category shows NK having over 2.1% of their flights delayed over 3 hours. B6 is less, but wins on total (512) due to the massively higher number of flights.

In terms of reasons why flights were late, NK got hammered with 53 minute ATC delays on average (when planes were late), DL suffered from inbound aircraft being 44 minutes late (WN was second with 39 and AA not far behind with 31) and DL drove the most carrier delays at an average of 32 minutes.
1,401 flights out of 97,125 recorded (domestic-outbound only) were delayed more than 3 hours. More surprisingly, 235 flights departed more than 15 minutes Early...meaning some very happy people on those flights!

Anyway, plenty more data for you to look at in the file. Enjoy.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:20 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Ok, time to publish the On-time Performance Data I pulled last month, but now including August Data.

Link to my report: https://drive.google.com/open?id=16xxqX ... 7HVKhjZSLL

Caveats

Like any tables from the DOT they have their limits, here's this tables:

1. Data only from Jan 2018, no previous comparatives at the regional carrier level available, although total carrier level is available for prior years i have ignored this for the purposes of the exercise.
2. Domestic, PR and USVI only, no international data available.
3. Carriers reporting: DL, UA, AA, WN, B6, NK, AS
4. Carriers reporting regional ops, DL, UA, AA
5. AS is combined with VX
6. As this is the BOS thread. only BOS routes are included. To do much more is beyond the power of my computing, 7 months alone provided me with 176,000 rows of data, to pull MA, I removed anything not related to BOS, although for B6, I do have the figures for ORH, which i have added to the file.
7. For this version, i have done a Month (Aug) , QTD (Jul/Aug), YTD (Jan to Aug).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How the report works:

New Information
This month, I have figured out how to pull which Tail for each airline has passed through BOS the most, it does not give me actual model data, but for future months i may look that up if I can. I have added the Tail number and the number of times it passed through. For a couple of airlines, the data is not 100% complete, so the largest number is a "blank", so I have gone with the next largest number to have a reference.


Section 1 -
a) Bidirectional data of number of flights, cancellations and diverts, showing a net completion # and % along with a rough average stage length, grand totals attempt to be weighted average, still working through that.
b) Average Elapsed Time is total flight time including air and ground, separated by air and ground underneath. Ground time is effectively a combination of Taxi Time out (departure) and Taxi Time in (arrival) at the relevant airports.
c) # of aircraft used: this is quite awesome information, although i wish it was just a little more detailed, basically this table has "tail reg" information, so i can actually count how many aircraft are used by each carrier. I can actually dive into how many on a particular route if needed, but i do not have aircraft types or load factors in these tables, so please do not ask if i do!. However what I DO have is which aircraft are used on which route on a given day and by flight number, and times if you are interested, please ask. I also have the detailed tables for each airline, but be warned they are big, so it's unlikely i can send them directly to you.

Section 2 -
IMPORTANT NOTE: This is OUTBOUND from BOS only information, so it's not the same as section 1.
# of flights, cancellations and diversions for a % completion factor, # of departures per day is based on the the gross number not the net and remember does NOT include international, so complaining that DL are at 115 for example and the data is wrong, is incorrect, because as noted, it's domestic only.. sorry.

Section 3
Also OUTBOUND only
This is On Time Performance, so net of cancellations, how many were delayed out of BOS, On-time as defined by DOT is leaving less than 15 minutes late, % OTP to see who is doing better than others. The departures per day shows how many flights are getting off the ground as opposed to section 2, which is how many are supposed to each day.

Section 4
I'm still getting to grips with this section, however basically a breakout of the key delay factors reported by this table i am working with. Carrier Delay is delays caused by non-aircraft carrier activities, Weather and ATC are obvious, then there is Inbound aircraft delay as well. ALSO OUTBOUND from BOS info.

Section 5
Breakdown of why flights are cancelled by category, whether by the carrier, Weather or ATC

Section 6
Breakdown of how long flights were delayed for and how many
-2 to 0 - on time
12 = 180+, no limit, others are blocked by 15 minute intervals.

Other Info
Highest and Lowest in each section, for those with multi-carriers, i have split those out on separate tabs for viewing along with ORH information for B6.


Commentary

Month - August
AS wins the outbound flights completed award (as a percentage) having only suffered 3 cancellations and 2 diversions and a 98.59% completion rate, the wooden spoon goes to AA that suffered 150 cancellations and 11 diversions for a 94.31% completion. DL's cancellations of 93 (more than B6), were pretty much all driven by YX and 9E, their regionals, which confirms that this is what they do potentially to keep their mainline numbers up. AA gave up 102 mainline as well.
B6 ran 145 departures on average per day, DL 97 and AA 91,

On-time performance is a lot different. WN winning this one with a 77.9% rating, roughly 3.5% above average for the data. NK brings up the rear with 68.24% along with B6 at 72.75% in 6th place.

Overall 53% of flights departed early and AA managed to get nearly 60% of theirs out in that category, followed by B6 with 55%. However once you get past that, everything flips with the on-time 0-15 minutes late category going to WN with 30% and AS/VX with 28%, AA and B6 drop to 18 and 17% respectively.
The late category shows DL, NK and UA having over 3.5% of their flights delayed over 3 hours. B6 is less, but wins on total due to the massively higher number of flights.
In terms of reasons why flights were late, NK got hammered with 61 minute ATC delays on average (when planes were late), DL suffered from inbound aircraft being 43 minutes late (WN was second with 52) and B6 drove the most carrier delays at an average of 25 minutes.
341 flights out of 13,335 recorded (domestic-outbound only) were delayed more than 3 hours. More surprisingly, 31 flights departed more than 15 minutes Early...

I'll pass on the QTD for this month, so will move on to YTD

YTD - August
UA wins the outbound flights completed award (as a percentage) with a 97.32% completion rate, the wooden spoon goes to AA that suffered 1,005 cancellations and 53 diversions for a 95.42% completion. 60% of DL's cancellations of 688 were driven by YX and 9E, their regionals, which confirms that this is what they do potentially to keep their mainline numbers up. AA gave up 792 mainline which is roughly 80% of their total.
B6 ran 137 departures per day, DL 88 and AA 85,

On-time performance is a lot different. AA wins YTD with a 81.97% rating, roughly 4.6% above average for the data. B6 brings up the rear with 70.74% which is 6% lower than 6th placed NK.

Overall 56% of flights departed early and AA managed to get nearly 65% of theirs out in that category, followed by AS & DL with 59%. However once you get past that, everything flips with the on-time 0-15 minutes late category going to WN with 29% and UA with 22%, AA and NK drop to 17 and 18% respectively.
The late category shows NK having over 2.1% of their flights delayed over 3 hours. B6 is less, but wins on total (512) due to the massively higher number of flights.

In terms of reasons why flights were late, NK got hammered with 53 minute ATC delays on average (when planes were late), DL suffered from inbound aircraft being 44 minutes late (WN was second with 39 and AA not far behind with 31) and DL drove the most carrier delays at an average of 32 minutes.
1,401 flights out of 97,125 recorded (domestic-outbound only) were delayed more than 3 hours. More surprisingly, 235 flights departed more than 15 minutes Early...meaning some very happy people on those flights!

Anyway, plenty more data for you to look at in the file. Enjoy.


Enjoy I will! Thanks for all the data mining and analysis!
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
cloudboy
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:55 pm

VS4ever wrote:
July board meeting highlights
Slide 12 - scary stats for ORH-FLL particularly with average fares in some quarters hovering close to $100...

I've flown the route several times this fall and it usually goes out pretty full, if not completely full. Talking with people from the area, it sounds like Spirit are putting a dent in that route, and it seems there is a bit of competition from airlines flying from PVD.

clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL announced ORH-DTW several months ago but still no flights are loaded for sale. Did they scrap the plans?

https://www.telegram.com/news/20180828/ ... it-planned


They won't be starting flying until next fall, so I don't expect to hear much news until then.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 pm

cloudboy wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL announced ORH-DTW several months ago but still no flights are loaded for sale. Did they scrap the plans?

https://www.telegram.com/news/20180828/ ... it-planned


They won't be starting flying until next fall, so I don't expect to hear much news until then.


In the article I linked it says that DL is beginning flights in August, which is summer, not fall. Furthermore, this was announced this past August and the flights still aren't sale. Delta isn't going to wait until the flights start to begin selling tickets. Especially with ORH being a completely new market DL is going to have to advertise and market the services, which they haven't done yet, and why I questioned if it's happening.

Do you have further insight into the service. Did they announce a delay in starting the route?
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:47 pm

I don't think I can recall ANY route by ANY airline being announced this far in advance...even a marquee one (which this obviously isn't).
 
jsteeves3
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:24 am

Anyone wanna brainstorm the next DL routes from BOS? Could we see Asia service from them? Personally I don't think so with JFK not getting any but anything is possible. South America?
 
deltafan815
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:08 am

jsteeves3 wrote:
Anyone wanna brainstorm the next DL routes from BOS? Could we see Asia service from them? Personally I don't think so with JFK not getting any but anything is possible. South America?


1. San Diego I am kind of surprised they haven't started it...
2. Aruba Daily? I know its seasonal but just got upgraded to year round Saturday.
3. SJU (seasonal)
4. ANU (seasonal)
5. SXM (seasonal)
6. DFW on the A220

Maybe some second frequencies on Saturday Caribbean services: Cancun, Punta Cana, Maybe Turks and Caicos. Mainline on The NAS flight?

DL just has to see what routes B6 are doing really well on and if its an easy add like AUA was then hop on it!
 
B752OS
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:34 am

jsteeves3 wrote:
Anyone wanna brainstorm the next DL routes from BOS? Could we see Asia service from them? Personally I don't think so with JFK not getting any but anything is possible. South America?


KE is serving Boston to Asia for DL. They start ICN-BOS next year.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5040
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:39 am

chrisnh wrote:
I don't think I can recall ANY route by ANY airline being announced this far in advance...even a marquee one (which this obviously isn't).



Perhaps Delta doesn't really want to operate DTW-ORH and they figure by pushing it out as far as they can it will give them time to gracefully back out of serving ORH without upsetting Massport.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
NickolayAv
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:34 am

deltafan815 wrote:
jsteeves3 wrote:
Anyone wanna brainstorm the next DL routes from BOS? Could we see Asia service from them? Personally I don't think so with JFK not getting any but anything is possible. South America?


1. San Diego I am kind of surprised they haven't started it...
2. Aruba Daily? I know its seasonal but just got upgraded to year round Saturday.
3. SJU (seasonal)
4. ANU (seasonal)
5. SXM (seasonal)
6. DFW on the A220

Maybe some second frequencies on Saturday Caribbean services: Cancun, Punta Cana, Maybe Turks and Caicos. Mainline on The NAS flight?

DL just has to see what routes B6 are doing really well on and if its an easy add like AUA was then hop on it!

Unfortunately, DL is trying to mirror the routes of B6. I really hope DL thinks outside of the box and adds routes where there is a known sizable O/D demand that is not served by any other airline from BOS, unfortunately, for now, DL is not doing this. Routes in mind: SDF, SAT, MEM, STL (I know its flown by WN, however it would be interesting to break the monopoly), but unfortunately, DL is not thinking outside the box, and will probably continue to add destinations that B6 has seen success on. I do expect that we will see a few more TATL routes from DL from BOS if their domestic presence continues to grow.
Obviously, most of these are longshots, but potential ones would be:
New Destinations in Europe for BOS: ATH, PRG, BRU, TXL, MXP (Any updates on the rumors FGITD?)
Potential other routes it could become the second or third airline on: MAD, KEF, ZRH, MUC, FRA, FCO
Most of these will never happen, and any of these would require a ton of connecting pax, but then again if you asked me 10 years ago if BOS will have flights to HKG, NRT, DXB, etc or a growing DL hub. I probably would've laughed in your face, so who knows what the future of DL at BOS is.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5292
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:49 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
DL announced ORH-DTW several months ago but still no flights are loaded for sale. Did they scrap the plans?

https://www.telegram.com/news/20180828/ ... it-planned


They won't be starting flying until next fall, so I don't expect to hear much news until then.


In the article I linked it says that DL is beginning flights in August, which is summer, not fall. Furthermore, this was announced this past August and the flights still aren't sale. Delta isn't going to wait until the flights start to begin selling tickets. Especially with ORH being a completely new market DL is going to have to advertise and market the services, which they haven't done yet, and why I questioned if it's happening.

Do you have further insight into the service. Did they announce a delay in starting the route?


I don't think it is time to worry yet, no one is booking flights for next August yet. If it gets to late March and the flights still aren't for sale, then it might be time to be worried.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:10 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
deltafan815 wrote:
DL just has to see what routes B6 are doing really well on and if its an easy add like AUA was then hop on it!

Unfortunately, DL is trying to mirror the routes of B6. I really hope DL thinks outside of the box and adds routes where there is a known sizable O/D demand that is not served by any other airline from BOS, unfortunately, for now, DL is not doing this.

Are you kidding? BOS-LIS, BOS-EDI?
Domestically I also don't think DL is chasing B6. Way too often people make it sound like this is a zero-sum game. It just so happens that DL and B6 are arguably the only 2 Boston based airlines and if a market is ready to be served both will serve it. Or maybe one airline will start a route and stimulate the market enough to the point where there is room for another airline to come in and serve it. I've seen far more evidence that both of them are after AA's routes than they are after eachother's routes.

I don't see DL going to Asia from Boston. I suspect it would require an A350 and I just don't see them rotating an A350 thru BOS. It's a shame because it seems to me like BOS-HKG is primed for a second airline. I think seasonal BOS-FCO is a no-brainer on DL.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:26 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
cloudboy wrote:

They won't be starting flying until next fall, so I don't expect to hear much news until then.


In the article I linked it says that DL is beginning flights in August, which is summer, not fall. Furthermore, this was announced this past August and the flights still aren't sale. Delta isn't going to wait until the flights start to begin selling tickets. Especially with ORH being a completely new market DL is going to have to advertise and market the services, which they haven't done yet, and why I questioned if it's happening.

Do you have further insight into the service. Did they announce a delay in starting the route?

DL loaded CVG-AUS less than 4 months before it began. It could take into April 2019 for the flights to be loaded.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Re Delta, I’m most curious about what they do (if anything) in Chicago, DC and Dallas. From a hub standpoint, those are glaring business traveler omissions. On the other hand, they can’t be everything to everyone.

I think that TATL growth will be seasonal to the cities already mentioned.

I don’t see DL flying it’s own metal TPAC. ICN on KE is the strategy.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:47 pm

I recall the days when DL served DFW with L-1011s, 767s, and 757s. Now we're wondering whether they can make a go of it with ONE A220 :hyper:
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:13 pm

tlecam wrote:
Re Delta, I’m most curious about what they do (if anything) in Chicago, DC and Dallas. From a hub standpoint, those are glaring business traveler omissions. On the other hand, they can’t be everything to everyone.

I think that TATL growth will be seasonal to the cities already mentioned.

I don’t see DL flying it’s own metal TPAC. ICN on KE is the strategy.


Good call on Chicago and DC. I think Dallas is a little too far and not as much O&D as Chicago or DC. DL seems to like to run CR9's or E75's in markets like that, which they'd probably use to start ORD or DCA with. Theoretically, DL could use an E75 on BOS-DFW but if they went for it it'd be a perfect A220 route like 1-2x daily. ORD & DCA would have to be like 3-4x daily I would suspect.

Agreed, don't see DL flying it's own metal TPAC either when they don't from JFK even.
 
User avatar
N717TW
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:48 pm

VS4ever wrote:

Previous slides [Edited for emphasis]
Slide 7 - 120 daily departures increase over the next 3 years - B6 - 150 to 200 (50), DL 100 to 150 (50), WN (surprising) - 41 to 56 - meaning 11 turns a day on their 5 gates.. that's some going... and another surprise UA 44 to 51 (7)

July board meeting highlights
Slide 112 - confirmation that AA will have 18 gates post Terminal B completion thru slides 143 shows updates to all the concepts that are likely close to completion or done by now. Now I just have to fly AA to see them all.


All of this reduction by AA is not surprising and fully expected given how both AA and US independently drew down BOS post-9/11. Amazing to consider when you think of how dominant AA and US were at Logan. Plus if you consider the routes that AA's recent predecessors (AA+US+TW+HP) flew in 2001, I think there are 21 fewer nonstop destinations now. Almost as interesting as watching B6 go from 2 gates in the E/D neck to nearly all of C in the exact same time span.

How much longer until its literally just a spoke and there is no service to non-hubs (i.e. ROC/SYR/MDT are gone)?
Does AA drop the Shuttle and let LGA operate during peak times only and use those slots elsewhere?
 
User avatar
pitbosflyer
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:19 pm

N717TW wrote:
I think there are 21 fewer nonstop destinations now. Almost as interesting as watching B6 go from 2 gates in the E/D neck to nearly all of C in the exact same time span.


Its so easy to forget (myself included) how revolutionary B6 was when they first rolled onto the scene. The product was just so superior, especially compared to the large RJ / turbo prop network US and AA were running at the time. I remember thinking how live satellite TV on a plane was like living in the future haha.

N717TW wrote:
How much longer until its literally just a spoke and there is no service to non-hubs (i.e. ROC/SYR/MDT are gone)?
Does AA drop the Shuttle and let LGA operate during peak times only and use those slots elsewhere?


I think its only a matter of time before DL and B6 chase AA right out of the ROC/SYR/MDT routes. The Shuttle on the other hand I don't think is going anywhere. AA is too committed to New York and DC.
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:12 pm

Agreed. Despite AA shifting flights to PHL from JFK, they still have a large LGA operation. The shuttle to BOS is more about NYC than about BOS.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:13 pm

Agreed. Despite AA shifting flights to PHL from JFK, they still have a large LGA operation. The shuttle to BOS is more about NYC than about BOS.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:04 pm

I wonder if B6 could ever figure out a way to bring a Mint-like product into the NE corridor. I would think an all premium or heavy premium shuttle could do well on some or all BOS-LGA/JFK/EWR/PHL/BWI/DCA/IAD routes. Something along the lines of the old Midwest 717s but with the B6 IFE and other modern touches. Has anyone ever tried that? Is there even a market or am I crazy?
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1091
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:55 pm

BOS Oct-2018 numbers are out. As always BOS continues to grow and YTD has seen an uptick of 6.7%.

YTD total pax: 34,551,287
YTD international pax: 6,466,279
International pax as a % of total pax: 18.72%

To give a perspective where BOS may land in 2018:

Nov-2017 total pax: 2,953,509
Dec-2017 total pax: 2,927,790

Total of Nov and Dec 2017 total pax: 5,881,299
If I use a conservative growth rate of 5% which I believe is still low = 6,175,364
Possible ballpark 2018 total pax: 34,551,287 + 6,175,364 = 40,726,651 (I believe this will be higher but let's see) - I believe BOS will come lower than IAH this year but by a smaller percent compared to 2017. Let's see.

Anyways coming back to detailed snapshot for Oct-2018

Oct-18 Oct-17 Difference
Domestic Charter Passenger 2220 2102 5.61%
Domestic Commuter Passenger 219,023 190,495 14.98%
Domestic Jet Passenger 2,791,955 2,646,361 5.50%
Total Domestic Passengers 3,013,198 2,838,958 6.14%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 69,891 55,437 26.07%
Canada 92,541 92,329 0.23%
Central America 19,534 13,591 43.73%
Europe 365,649 332,085 10.11%
Middle East 48,441 43,082 12.44%
South America 11,556 2,084 454.51% Wow!
Trans-Pacific 44,227 42,873 3.16%
Total International passengers 651,839 581,481 12.10%

General Aviation 12,886 10,824 19.05%
Total Airport pax 3,677,923 3,431,263 7.19%

Wish you and your family a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING and wish everyone many more to come!

Enjoy!
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:01 am

That Middle East growth is more than I thought it would be. Who gets the credit...EK, El Al?
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:23 am

chrisnh wrote:
That Middle East growth is more than I thought it would be. Who gets the credit...EK, El Al?


I'm going to post some more in-depth numbers on the back of these totals that iyerhari gave us, unfortunately Massport won't give up the airline totals on a regular basis. But to put into context, that's about a 30 pax per flight year over year increase. The only airline that really has that kind of potential in the Mid-East is QR to be honest, the others are running too close to have that kind of uplift. Now it could be spread around a bit of course, but QR i suspect is probably the bulk of it, however you'll have to ask me the question again in April when the T-100's for October international appear to know for sure.

There is a lot going on behind these numbers.. more soon.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:53 am

VS4ever wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
That Middle East growth is more than I thought it would be. Who gets the credit...EK, El Al?


I'm going to post some more in-depth numbers on the back of these totals that iyerhari gave us, unfortunately Massport won't give up the airline totals on a regular basis. But to put into context, that's about a 30 pax per flight year over year increase. The only airline that really has that kind of potential in the Mid-East is QR to be honest, the others are running too close to have that kind of uplift. Now it could be spread around a bit of course, but QR i suspect is probably the bulk of it, however you'll have to ask me the question again in April when the T-100's for October international appear to know for sure.

There is a lot going on behind these numbers.. more soon.


I think all carriers will show gains YOY with the big assist from B6 (BOS-MSP had to give a boost to their feed for starters). Weren't there cuts made to other markets by ME3? MIA, FLL and MCO were trimmed to less than daily not sure if it was for October or not.

Also -Were the same amount of Mid-East flights flown YOY? Depending on how the days fall you may have extra flights YOY for the airlines who fly less than daily (TK for part of the month and LY).
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:28 am

adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
That Middle East growth is more than I thought it would be. Who gets the credit...EK, El Al?


I'm going to post some more in-depth numbers on the back of these totals that iyerhari gave us, unfortunately Massport won't give up the airline totals on a regular basis. But to put into context, that's about a 30 pax per flight year over year increase. The only airline that really has that kind of potential in the Mid-East is QR to be honest, the others are running too close to have that kind of uplift. Now it could be spread around a bit of course, but QR i suspect is probably the bulk of it, however you'll have to ask me the question again in April when the T-100's for October international appear to know for sure.

There is a lot going on behind these numbers.. more soon.


I think all carriers will show gains YOY with the big assist from B6 (BOS-MSP had to give a boost to their feed for starters). Weren't there cuts made to other markets by ME3? MIA, FLL and MCO were trimmed to less than daily not sure if it was for October or not.

Also -Were the same amount of Mid-East flights flown YOY? Depending on how the days fall you may have extra flights YOY for the airlines who fly less than daily (TK for part of the month and LY).


Noncuts in flights, actually the difference was 1, 210 in 2017 to 209 in 2018, it’s not much of a differential so the growth was all pax related, you might be right with the feed, but as I said, not sure EK has the space to make 30 more a flight, so it’s either shared out or someone else is picking up the slack
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:03 am

chrisnh wrote:
I recall the days when DL served DFW with L-1011s, 767s, and 757s. Now we're wondering whether they can make a go of it with ONE A220 :hyper:


Of course we all know the dynamics of the industry have changed fundamentally. On the same token, DL used to fly L-1011s to YUL and 767s to BDL. Not to mention the fact that they no longer have a significant hub operation at DFW to funnel passengers onward. But you're not wrong to chuckle at how drastic the changes over the past 20-30 years have been.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:59 am

Starting Dec 1 and lasting until late March we have the QR 77W, which will either be a wash or an uptick in capacity depending on the version of it they use here. And I’d be shocked if EK didn’t do SOMETHING in 2019 to at least put some substance behind their own chatter about upgrading existing service to U.S. cities.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
I wonder if B6 could ever figure out a way to bring a Mint-like product into the NE corridor. I would think an all premium or heavy premium shuttle could do well on some or all BOS-LGA/JFK/EWR/PHL/BWI/DCA/IAD routes. Something along the lines of the old Midwest 717s but with the B6 IFE and other modern touches. Has anyone ever tried that? Is there even a market or am I crazy?


I fly between BOS and LGA a lot and ORD and LGA a lot on DL’s shuttles. The flights are essentially all business travelers - my sense is that the number one most important thing is frequency and reliability, followed by Wifi. The complimentary alcohol is popular on the evening flights. The flights are so short, I’m not sure that people are looking for a premium or mint-lite product. But I could be wrong.

If there will ever be demand for an “Uber” like experience for air travel, these shuttles routes are where I think there’s a market for it.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
B752OS
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:42 pm

tlecam wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:
I wonder if B6 could ever figure out a way to bring a Mint-like product into the NE corridor. I would think an all premium or heavy premium shuttle could do well on some or all BOS-LGA/JFK/EWR/PHL/BWI/DCA/IAD routes. Something along the lines of the old Midwest 717s but with the B6 IFE and other modern touches. Has anyone ever tried that? Is there even a market or am I crazy?


I fly between BOS and LGA a lot and ORD and LGA a lot on DL’s shuttles. The flights are essentially all business travelers - my sense is that the number one most important thing is frequency and reliability, followed by Wifi. The complimentary alcohol is popular on the evening flights. The flights are so short, I’m not sure that people are looking for a premium or mint-lite product. But I could be wrong.

If there will ever be demand for an “Uber” like experience for air travel, these shuttles routes are where I think there’s a market for it.


Routes like that (heavy business travelers) are also some of the most popular flights for flight attendants to work, far more popular and liked than flights into MCO.


Has anyone gone through the new consolidated checkpoint in B and the expansion over there yet?
 
hinckley
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:43 pm

Happy Thanksgiving to the BOS crew. Hopefully we're all able to enjoy our families today.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:48 pm

hinckley wrote:
Happy Thanksgiving to the BOS crew. Hopefully we're all able to enjoy our families today.


Happy thanksgiving to you and everyone here as well, alas i know of at least one of our crew that is not with their family today and is in fact 1/2 way across the world. So I hope he enjoys his day out there, even though it's not with his US family.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:48 pm

Happy Thanksgiving.

As I have no family either, I'm enjoying a sunny, warm and relaxing break in Palm Springs by myself. :cool2:
 
jsteeves3
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:36 pm

SOMETHING TO NOTE: DL has added 763 service to SLC starting in April on a 3:45pm flight... interesting considering that it is an internationally configured plane.
 
Kno
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:44 pm

jsteeves3 wrote:
SOMETHING TO NOTE: DL has added 763 service to SLC starting in April on a 3:45pm flight... interesting considering that it is an internationally configured plane.


A one off or for an extended period of time? Surprising! must be for positioning? DLs domestic widebodys have been missed at BOS and I’d have thought if they were coming back it would have been to ATL or LAX or SFO.
 
User avatar
dvincent
Posts: 1590
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:39 am

What time of April? It's probably an April school vacation week special.
From the Mind of Minolta
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:20 am

Seems to go for several months. Based on timings, seems like a Europe rotation, no surprise. Also seems to allow time in SLC on a RON for any maintenance.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:12 pm

Starting this Saturday QR will upgrade to the 777-300ER, a change that will last right through the winter season before reverting back to the A359 in late March.

QR has three versions of the 77W: one holds 380, another 358, and the third has a capacity of 335. All three trump the A359, which has a capacity of 283. So the delta can be 97 seats, 75 seats, or 52 seats each trip. I don't believe the 380-seat version will be used, and SeatGuru shows the 358-seat variant for Boston.

It will be interesting to see how this change impacts their numbers. My hunch is that raw numbers will go up a small bit in keeping with their upward trajectory of late, with a corresponding decrease in LF due to the bigger plane.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:43 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Starting this Saturday QR will upgrade to the 777-300ER, a change that will last right through the winter season before reverting back to the A359 in late March.

QR has three versions of the 77W: one holds 380, another 358, and the third has a capacity of 335. All three trump the A359, which has a capacity of 283. So the delta can be 97 seats, 75 seats, or 52 seats each trip. I don't believe the 380-seat version will be used, and SeatGuru shows the 358-seat variant for Boston.

It will be interesting to see how this change impacts their numbers. My hunch is that raw numbers will go up a small bit in keeping with their upward trajectory of late, with a corresponding decrease in LF due to the bigger plane.


Sadly we won't know until around May/June next year to see if what you suggest pans out, plus QR are the worst at reporting their T-100 seat numbers, so we will have to work from QRsource website to figure out the right configuration that turned up. All that said, I agree with your assessment, overall numbers will be higher, but the LF may take a bit of a hammering as a result.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Pelly
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:59 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Starting this Saturday QR will upgrade to the 777-300ER, a change that will last right through the winter season before reverting back to the A359 in late March.

QR has three versions of the 77W: one holds 380, another 358, and the third has a capacity of 335. All three trump the A359, which has a capacity of 283. So the delta can be 97 seats, 75 seats, or 52 seats each trip. I don't believe the 380-seat version will be used, and SeatGuru shows the 358-seat variant for Boston.

It will be interesting to see how this change impacts their numbers. My hunch is that raw numbers will go up a small bit in keeping with their upward trajectory of late, with a corresponding decrease in LF due to the bigger plane.


The 335 and 380 seat versions no longer exist. QR has 354 seat 77W (Qsuites 42J), 358 seat 77W (old product 42J), and 412 seat 77W (24J comes with Qsuites or old product). Right now BOS is scheduled for the 358 seat version, expect the 354 seat version to substitute sometimes.
 
User avatar
N717TW
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:01 am

tlecam wrote:
Agreed. Despite AA shifting flights to PHL from JFK, they still have a large LGA operation. The shuttle to BOS is more about NYC than about BOS.


I agree that the Shuttle is more about NYC/LGA than BOS, I just wonder how much longer the useful life of the Shuttles are and how long DL and AA stay committed to them. I say this as someone who spends a lot of time running between NYC and BOS--most of it on planes despite my better judgment. The new Amtrak upgraded trains and rail improvements start rolling in the coming year and will be fully implemented by 2021. Even if it only shaves a few minutes off the trip time, they are adding a ton more capacity and will be every 30 minutes to DC and hourly to Boston. At some point DL gives up on hourly LGA-DCA flights. I just wonder if AA uses DL's cue and cuts BOS-LGA from hourly to semi-hourly. (I mean, not to be a jerk about it, but AA seems to use DL's lead as cover to make a lot of service changes.)

As an aside, DL giving up on DCA-LGA is probably good for BOS, as it gives slots DL can use to start BOS-DCA service. I know for a fact its on the DL list...they just don't have enough slots to be a legit player on the route.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:29 pm

N717TW wrote:
I agree that the Shuttle is more about NYC/LGA than BOS, I just wonder how much longer the useful life of the Shuttles are and how long DL and AA stay committed to them. I say this as someone who spends a lot of time running between NYC and BOS--most of it on planes despite my better judgment. The new Amtrak upgraded trains and rail improvements start rolling in the coming year and will be fully implemented by 2021. Even if it only shaves a few minutes off the trip time, they are adding a ton more capacity and will be every 30 minutes to DC and hourly to Boston. At some point DL gives up on hourly LGA-DCA flights. I just wonder if AA uses DL's cue and cuts BOS-LGA from hourly to semi-hourly. (I mean, not to be a jerk about it, but AA seems to use DL's lead as cover to make a lot of service changes.)

As an aside, DL giving up on DCA-LGA is probably good for BOS, as it gives slots DL can use to start BOS-DCA service. I know for a fact its on the DL list...they just don't have enough slots to be a legit player on the route.


The problem with the train is that a lot of people flying that route probably don't live in Boston proper. As painful as it can be to get to Logan during rush hour, getting to South Station and finding parking is even harder. So I believe that there will always be a parallel market for the shuttle.
What i wonder is what that market would be like if an airline started to put its code on the Amtrak trains. i think that would be a very interesting development.
 
B757rocket
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:53 pm

jsteeves3 wrote:
SOMETHING TO NOTE: DL has added 763 service to SLC starting in April on a 3:45pm flight... interesting considering that it is an internationally configured plane.


BOS-DUB on DL is being upgraded to a B767-300ER for spring and summer 2019. The aircraft rotation should be DUB-BOS-SLC, pre-cleared in DUB so Terminal A arrival, then on the return SLC-BOS-DUB.


https://news.delta.com/delta-continues- ... s-scotland
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:01 pm

B757rocket wrote:
jsteeves3 wrote:
SOMETHING TO NOTE: DL has added 763 service to SLC starting in April on a 3:45pm flight... interesting considering that it is an internationally configured plane.


BOS-DUB on DL is being upgraded to a B767-300ER for spring and summer 2019. The aircraft rotation should be DUB-BOS-SLC, pre-cleared in DUB so Terminal A arrival, then on the return SLC-BOS-DUB.


https://news.delta.com/delta-continues- ... s-scotland


That will be a nice add for folks on the SLC-BOS-SLC rotation. I figured when DL started BOS-DUB there was untapped market that EI couldn't cover even with it's double daily, because in summer those things were going out full pretty much every day and it was quite clear from the 17 numbers that DL expanded the market, they may have taken some from EI, but the numbers overall were way up, and clearly they are seeing an upward trend on those to move up to the 763ER. Just shows what can happen when you hit the right market at the right time.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:17 pm

The Standard Life Aberdeen crew will be happy about the direct to EDI, even if its only for part of the year.

I was suspicious that the upgauge to the 763ER was not much of a seat increase, but it is decent. They're flying a 76Z with 26/29/171. I did some looking at fares for the summer - after schools get out in June, Basic Economy is already starting from mid-700s depending upon which days you go. Business starts at 2700 and goes up from there. Spot checking a bunch of flights already show seats sold in Delta 1. I am surprised - it's such a short flight.

I used to fly through SLC all the time. Would have loved that on a 763. Haven't been there in 2-3 years; am curious to see how the construction is progressing. It was just starting the last time I was there.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
User avatar
N717TW
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
N717TW wrote:
I agree that the Shuttle is more about NYC/LGA than BOS, I just wonder how much longer the useful life of the Shuttles are and how long DL and AA stay committed to them. I say this as someone who spends a lot of time running between NYC and BOS--most of it on planes despite my better judgment. The new Amtrak upgraded trains and rail improvements start rolling in the coming year and will be fully implemented by 2021. Even if it only shaves a few minutes off the trip time, they are adding a ton more capacity and will be every 30 minutes to DC and hourly to Boston. At some point DL gives up on hourly LGA-DCA flights. I just wonder if AA uses DL's cue and cuts BOS-LGA from hourly to semi-hourly. (I mean, not to be a jerk about it, but AA seems to use DL's lead as cover to make a lot of service changes.)

As an aside, DL giving up on DCA-LGA is probably good for BOS, as it gives slots DL can use to start BOS-DCA service. I know for a fact its on the DL list...they just don't have enough slots to be a legit player on the route.


The problem with the train is that a lot of people flying that route probably don't live in Boston proper. As painful as it can be to get to Logan during rush hour, getting to South Station and finding parking is even harder. So I believe that there will always be a parallel market for the shuttle.
What i wonder is what that market would be like if an airline started to put its code on the Amtrak trains. i think that would be a very interesting development.


In reverse order:
- Amtrak and United do have a codeshare relationship and you can earn MileagePlus miles on the Acela to NYP. https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/mi ... mtrak.html
I have no idea how many people get UA miles on the Acela. I collect Amtrak points and have "Select Plus" status. I want to use it for a family vacation on the California Zephyr and Southwest chief (for anyone interested!) (and yes, I commute that much between BOS and NYC that I hold DL diamond status and Amtrak status....I know, sad).

- While parking at South Station is a pain and BackBay isn't great, you're forgetting Route 128 station (which I think is technically in Canton but I think of as being in Westwood). For anyone west of JP in Boston, this is probably easier and now that I've moved out of the Boston and to the western suburbs is my preferred station (I used to take the Acela back home, get off at BackBay and jump on the Orange line home to Charlestown). Given its location right off Route 128, anyone from Milton/Braintree (maybe Quincy) all the way up to Lexington can probably get to 128 station faster than Logan.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:12 am

The company I just joined has two facilities in Missoula, MT. My boss is located there, so I’ll be heading back and forth. I think BOS-SLC-MSO-SLC-BOS will be worth trying. Last month on my first trip, my return thru SLC included an A320 from Missoula connecting to a 739 to Boston. That one was 100% full and I got stuck in a middle seat :mad:
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:31 am

chrisnh wrote:
The company I just joined has two facilities in Missoula, MT. My boss is located there, so I’ll be heading back and forth. I think BOS-SLC-MSO-SLC-BOS will be worth trying. Last month on my first trip, my return thru SLC included an A320 from Missoula connecting to a 739 to Boston. That one was 100% full and I got stuck in a middle seat :mad:


I did BOS-MSO a handful of times a couple years back when I was using UA heavily. My normal route was BOS-DEN-MSO. It was usually a 739 BOS-DEN (occasionally a 738) and then either a CRJ2 or E170 DEN-MSO. If I'm not mistaken the DEN-MSO route has since been upgraded to E175s with occasional E170/CRJ2 subs. DEN isn't the worst place to connect in, assuming your gates are reasonably close to each other or you have an hour+ layover. I haven't been to SLC in probably 10 years or more but I'd imagine it's an easy connection.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:00 pm

I see DY BOS-FCO loaded in Amadeus. Looks like a 3/31 start.

4 weekly 1357 Mon/Wed with 4:30 pm arrival and 6:30pm departure and Fri/Sun with 9:00pm arrival and 11:00pm departure.

Another thread mentioned BOS-MAD but I do not see that one.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston aviation - 2018

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:28 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
I see DY BOS-FCO loaded in Amadeus. Looks like a 3/31 start.

4 weekly 1357 Mon/Wed with 4:30 pm arrival and 6:30pm departure and Fri/Sun with 9:00pm arrival and 11:00pm departure.

Another thread mentioned BOS-MAD but I do not see that one.


Can we say PF2? Lol, especially if MAD does get the go ahead. Interesting fact on that 9pm slot for 5,7 isn’t technically available, so I would not be surprised if it gets retimed to around 21.20 or so to make it fit, the 9pm slot is already over subscribed compared to gates needed but a number depart in that 20 minute period to clear the decks, otherwise someone is going to be sitting out on the apron for a while waiting for a gate.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos