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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3674
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:46 am

717atOGG wrote:
Noticed in the DTW thread that in September and October, one of the DL SEA-DTW flights is switching from a 753 to a 763ER on alternating days of the week with DTW-SFO. Kind of cool to get a domestic widebody on this route, since I know DL has used them on ATL and JFK, but never on DTW until now, to my knowledge.


DL has run 763s on MSP/DTW-SEA periodically since the SEA hub build-up. No regular schedule so far as I've seen, but they do come around. One of our resident DL-knowers might be able to provide more specific information than I can.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:11 pm

FA9295 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Over the last four to five years of traveling through SEA, I am truly amazed at the volume of traffic that goes through that airport today. Queues can be quite a pain sometimes, but it's just cool to see such a crowded airport. It's kind of fun to watch!

I agree. SEA is definitely one of the fastest growing airports in the country, if not in the entire world! With two major airlines going up to bat (AS & DL), it'll be interesting to see what the future holds. However, SEA is running out of gate space; and even with the current expansion of some of the terminal(s), it'll be interesting to see what happens from then onward...

Unfortunately for me, I have to drive 3 hours north in order to get to Sea/Tac, and given that PDX doesn't have very many international/long-haul options and not nearly the amount of short-haul flights, it's always good to know that SEA is always another option for me, albeit it being a longer drive, or just a hop-skip connection from PDX. :D


Another limiting factor in the lack of gate space at SEA is all of the construction going on at the A, B, N and S concourses. The construction is blocking out one or two gates here and there. I'm sure that's causing headaches in terms of gate space. I've seen B6 having to hold for a quite a while because they only have 1 or 2 gates at the B concourse.

With NK reducing service at SEA to just a few flights to LAS, I wonder if they will lose D7 due to low gate utilization and push them back to A or B concourse.

Lastly, the addition to the N concourse is coming along. It appears it will add quite a bit of capacity for AS there.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:26 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Noticed in the DTW thread that in September and October, one of the DL SEA-DTW flights is switching from a 753 to a 763ER on alternating days of the week with DTW-SFO. Kind of cool to get a domestic widebody on this route, since I know DL has used them on ATL and JFK, but never on DTW until now, to my knowledge.


DL has run 763s on MSP/DTW-SEA periodically since the SEA hub build-up. No regular schedule so far as I've seen, but they do come around. One of our resident DL-knowers might be able to provide more specific information than I can.

Ah, then I stand corrected. Thanks for that info, I had no idea that they were used to MSP and DTW.
wedgetail737 wrote:
Another limiting factor in the lack of gate space at SEA is all of the construction going on at the A, B, N and S concourses. The construction is blocking out one or two gates here and there. I'm sure that's causing headaches in terms of gate space. I've seen B6 having to hold for a quite a while because they only have 1 or 2 gates at the B concourse.

With NK reducing service at SEA to just a few flights to LAS, I wonder if they will lose D7 due to low gate utilization and push them back to A or B concourse.

Lastly, the addition to the N concourse is coming along. It appears it will add quite a bit of capacity for AS there.

I hadn't thought that about NK yet, but it certainly seems like a possibility. Also makes me wonder about F9 and SY, who both have low frequencies this winter. In December, F9 only has 2 daily flights and SY has 1-2 flights to MSP, plus some days with no flights at all. When the D gate hardstand terminal is finished, that might be a good place for them; a ULCC terminal of sorts. The only disadvantage is that it'd be pretty sucky having to deplane from there in the winter, but then again that's already happening here so it wouldn't be anything new.

As for AS (no pun intended) and NorthSTAR, I've been pondering what they'll do with the new gates once they open. Since AS has slowed their growth since the merger and their SEA route network is basically complete, I doubt they'd be able to fill 6 new gates, even after moving out of their gates in A. At first, I thought that they could move out of D (IIRC they only have 4 or 5 gates left there now), then move some of the smaller domestic airlines (e.g. NK, F9, SY, B6) over there, but then that gives DL more room over in A and B, which I doubt they'd want. Then again, I have no idea how much say the airlines have in this and if they even have any veto power when it comes to other airlines' gates. Gee, I'd love to be a fly on the wall wherever the Port of Seattle decides gate assignments.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:54 pm

SEA LFs, May 2018 domestic and Feb. 2018 international:

Domestic stats:
AS: 86.07 (didn't average in QX since they do Canada routes too)
AA: 81.15
DL: 86.61
F9: 73.48
HA: 90.71
B6: 70.25
WN: 79.91
NK: 66.08
SY: 77.43
UA: 88.65

Int'l stats:
AS: 91.24
DL: 83.61
AM: 69.20
AC: 84.58
NH: 75.03
OZ: 89.46
BA: 79.45
Y4: 76.42
DE: 86.87
EK: 90.42
BR: 83.84
HU: 86.52
FI: 78.48
KE: 75.07
LH: 72.25
DY: 57.12
VS: 58.27
MF: 70.83
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5334
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:58 am

717atOGG wrote:
SEA LFs, May 2018 domestic and Feb. 2018 international:

Domestic stats:
AS: 86.07 (didn't average in QX since they do Canada routes too)
AA: 81.15
DL: 86.61
F9: 73.48
HA: 90.71
B6: 70.25
WN: 79.91
NK: 66.08
SY: 77.43
UA: 88.65

Int'l stats:
AS: 91.24
DL: 83.61
AM: 69.20
AC: 84.58
NH: 75.03
OZ: 89.46
BA: 79.45
Y4: 76.42
DE: 86.87
EK: 90.42
BR: 83.84
HU: 86.52
FI: 78.48
KE: 75.07
LH: 72.25
DY: 57.12
VS: 58.27
MF: 70.83



Wow! No wonder F9, NK and SY are cutting back SEA substantially.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:30 am

OAG updates week of 8/19.

AA DFW-SEA DEC 9>7[7]
AA JFK-SEA DEC 1.5>1.0[1.0]
AS FLL-SEA JAN 1.2>1.6[1.1] FEB 1.0>1.9[1.0] MAR 1.0>2[1.3] APR 1.0>2[1.4] Nice increase. Much better schedule than DL, who only does a daily flight around Christmastime.
AS MCI-SEA JAN 1.2>1.9[1.2] FEB 1.0>1.9[1.0] MAR 1.0>1.8[1.5] APR 1.0>1.9[1.7] MAY 1.0>1.9[1.8] Probably compensating for WN going seasonal on SEA-MCI.
AS MSY-SEA FEB 1.0>1.7[1.0] MAR 1.0>2[1.0] APR 1.0>2[1.0] MAY 1.0>2[1.0] Again, nice to have AS go twice daily, and better than DL who is Sat-only and is only running the route in March for 2019 IIRC.
AS PSP-SEA JAN 3>4[2] FEB 3>5[4] MAR 1.8>6[4] APR 1.3>5[4] MAY 1.3>4[3] Wow, AS is really on a roll with these winter sun markets! I wonder if we'll see DL follow suit with frequency increases on a few of these routes.
AS PVR-SEA MAY 1.0>0.1[0.2]
AS SEA-SJD MAR 1.3>2[1.2] APR 1.0>1.5[1.1] MAY 1.0>0.2[0.2]
AS SEA-SUN DEC 1.3>0.7[1.3]
AS SEA-TUS JAN 1.2>2[1.0] FEB 1.0>2[1.0] MAR 1.0>2[1.1] APR 1.0>2[1.1] MAY 1.0>2[1.0]
DL AMS-SEA APR 2>1.4[1.9]
DL BOS-SEA FEB 1.3>1.0[1.0]
DL PSC-SEA MAR 4>3[3]
DL SEA-SMF MAR 5>4[4]
NK LAS-SEA FEB 1.4>3[2] MAR 0>3[2] APR 0>3[2] This is from their schedule extension. Gotta be a misfile, since I highly doubt that they didn't serve LAS-SEA in March and April.
UA DEN-PSC JAN 3>2[2]
UA EWR-SEA JAN 3>2[3] Looks like their lieflat 752 is back on this route for the winter.
UA IAD-SEA JAN 3>2[2.0]
UA IAH-SEA JAN 6>4[4] FEB 6>5[4]
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:53 pm

G4 is starting BLI-TUS on 11/15, 2x weekly. This route sort of came out of left field, but I think it could do well during winter, similar to BLI-PSP.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
tespai
Posts: 22
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:42 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
SEA LFs, May 2018 domestic and Feb. 2018 international:

Domestic stats:
AS: 86.07 (didn't average in QX since they do Canada routes too)
AA: 81.15
DL: 86.61
F9: 73.48
HA: 90.71
B6: 70.25
WN: 79.91
NK: 66.08
SY: 77.43
UA: 88.65

Int'l stats:
AS: 91.24
DL: 83.61
AM: 69.20
AC: 84.58
NH: 75.03
OZ: 89.46
BA: 79.45
Y4: 76.42
DE: 86.87
EK: 90.42
BR: 83.84
HU: 86.52
FI: 78.48
KE: 75.07
LH: 72.25
DY: 57.12
VS: 58.27
MF: 70.83



Wow! No wonder F9, NK and SY are cutting back SEA substantially.

NK - yes, but I believe F9 and SY are actually both slightly up yoy this winter.
Seattle.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:38 am

Just thought I'd mention this here, there's going to be temporary nonstop SEA-MSN service on Delta from August 26th to August 30th: https://www.google.com/flights#flt=SEA. ... USD.114340

I'm presuming that it's for a scheduled business conference...

Update: Event link: https://ugm.epic.com/
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:04 am

So AS is announcing some new routes in the next few weeks...any predictions for WA? AS doesn't have very many 737s left to be delivered so I think that most adds would be on E175 equipment.

My personal wish list/logical predictions are another California flight for GEG and SEA-DSM/TUL/MRY. Flights to Ohio are also a possibility IMO but I have no idea which city they'd choose.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:10 am

717atOGG wrote:
So AS is announcing some new routes in the next few weeks...any predictions for WA? AS doesn't have very many 737s left to be delivered so I think that most adds would be on E175 equipment.

My personal wish list/logical predictions are another California flight for GEG and SEA-DSM/TUL/MRY. Flights to Ohio are also a possibility IMO but I have no idea which city they'd choose.


I would take that Twitter comment with a grain of salt. She was appeasing someone who was complaining that AS just dropped MEX. It wasn't an official comment or anything.

What's left from SEA that AS could add that would be viable? Not a lot.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:42 am

717atOGG wrote:
So AS is announcing some new routes in the next few weeks...any predictions for WA? AS doesn't have very many 737s left to be delivered so I think that most adds would be on E175 equipment.

My personal wish list/logical predictions are another California flight for GEG and SEA-DSM/TUL/MRY. Flights to Ohio are also a possibility IMO but I have no idea which city they'd choose.


While SEA has less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to CLE on F9, the lack of daily nonstop service to CLE out of SEA on a non-ULCC is a huge hole. There is enough demand for either AS to start service out of CLE or for DL to add SEA-CLE nonstop service.

CMH is one of the top domestic destinations traveled to out of SEA that isn't currently served nonstop from SEA. There was a post on airliners.net by brooklynchris13 that said that DL is planning on adding SEA-CMH nonstop service (which can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382407&start=1150#p20542685), but DL hasn't yet officially announced SEA-CMH nonstop service.

In addition to CLE and CMH, AS could also add SEA-CVG nonstop service in order to better compete against DL in the SEA market. CVG used to have 3 daily nonstops from SEA on DL 10 years ago, but DL now only has 1 daily nonstop to CVG from SEA. CVG is currently the only DL hub or focus city that isn't currently served by AS, and both DL and AS also already have nonstop service from SEA to DL's LAX, SLC, MSP, DTW, JFK, and ATL hubs and DL's BOS and RDU focus cities.
 
crescent
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:07 am

What is the latest on when PAE service will begin?
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:43 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
So AS is announcing some new routes in the next few weeks...any predictions for WA? AS doesn't have very many 737s left to be delivered so I think that most adds would be on E175 equipment.

My personal wish list/logical predictions are another California flight for GEG and SEA-DSM/TUL/MRY. Flights to Ohio are also a possibility IMO but I have no idea which city they'd choose.


I would take that Twitter comment with a grain of salt. She was appeasing someone who was complaining that AS just dropped MEX. It wasn't an official comment or anything.

What's left from SEA that AS could add that would be viable? Not a lot.

Eh, I respectfully disagree about the comment. The way the agent worded it suggests that they are seriously planning to announce new routes IMO. Not to mention the facts that AS hasn't made a major route announcement for quite a while, and S19 route announcement prime time is coming up soon. I do agree with you however about the amount of viable adds out of SEA left, and I don't believe that this round of adds will be SEA-centric, or even include very much for WA. I still think that we at least have the chance to get a couple of new routes though.
crescent wrote:
What is the latest on when PAE service will begin?

I actually have no idea. When the environmental review was announced, they said anytime from late 2018 to 2019, so a pretty wide time range. If anyone else knows more about this, I'd be really interested to hear about it.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
iamlucky13
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:25 pm

crescent wrote:
What is the latest on when PAE service will begin?


The timeline is currently unclear because the FAA has decided that since the planned number of flights now exceeds what was considered under the previously approved environmental assessment, a supplemental assessment is needed.

That could be anywhere from a 6-18 month process. Hypothetically it could conclude that no increase can be allowed beyond what the existing assessment covers, meaning cancellation of some of the current flight plans. I think that is highly unlikely.

The latest update is that the FAA expects to release a draft of the supplemental assessment within a month or two. That will be followed by a comment period, and probably a lawsuit by the city of Mukilteo. If all goes smoothly, service might start before the end of the year. If not, who knows.

Here's the latest significant update I've seen:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/faa- ... september/

There was a minor construction update a week or so ago:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/firs ... -terminal/
 
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qf789
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:09 am

Qantas said last week that SEA is down as Plan B. Plan A is for ORD however if the AA/QF venture does not go ahead it will be to SEA instead

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-plans-n ... ource=hero
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BA
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:08 pm

qf789 wrote:
Qantas said last week that SEA is down as Plan B. Plan A is for ORD however if the AA/QF venture does not go ahead it will be to SEA instead

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-plans-n ... ource=hero


Any idea why it would be from BNE instead of SYD?
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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qf789
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:20 pm

BA wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas said last week that SEA is down as Plan B. Plan A is for ORD however if the AA/QF venture does not go ahead it will be to SEA instead

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-plans-n ... ource=hero


Any idea why it would be from BNE instead of SYD?


As the 789 bases are currently BNE & MEL though in theory SEA could be operated from SYD as well. Currently by the end of the year 4 789's will be based in MEL and another 4 in BNE. Its unclear where the next 6 will be based, its pausible they could add SYD as a base as well but nothing has been announced as of yet.
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717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:31 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
crescent wrote:
What is the latest on when PAE service will begin?


The timeline is currently unclear because the FAA has decided that since the planned number of flights now exceeds what was considered under the previously approved environmental assessment, a supplemental assessment is needed.

That could be anywhere from a 6-18 month process. Hypothetically it could conclude that no increase can be allowed beyond what the existing assessment covers, meaning cancellation of some of the current flight plans. I think that is highly unlikely.

The latest update is that the FAA expects to release a draft of the supplemental assessment within a month or two. That will be followed by a comment period, and probably a lawsuit by the city of Mukilteo. If all goes smoothly, service might start before the end of the year. If not, who knows.

Here's the latest significant update I've seen:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/faa- ... september/

There was a minor construction update a week or so ago:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/firs ... -terminal/

Thanks for the update. I went to the Museum of Flight Restoration Center at PAE yesterday, then drove up a little bit from there and stumbled across the terminal under construction and got a picture of it for anyone who's wondering how it's going so far.
Image
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:39 pm

OAG updates week of 8/26:

AA MIA-SEA JAN 2>1.2[1.2] FEB 1.5>1.0[1.0]
AS ABQ-SEA JAN 2>1.2[1.1] FEB 2>1.0[1.0]
AS ATL-SEA JAN 1.7>1.2[1.2] FEB 1.7>1.0[1.0]
AS AUS-SEA JAN 2>1.6[1.7] FEB 2>1.5[1.7] MAR 2>1.5[1.7] APR 2>1.5[1.7] MAY 2>1.5[1.8]
AS EWR-SEA JAN 3>2[2] FEB 3>2[3]
AS JFK-SEA JAN 2>3[1.0] FEB 2>3[1.0]
AS MCO-SEA JAN 1.2>2[1.5] FEB 1.0>2[2.0] MAR 1.0>1.3[2]
AS SEA-TPA FEB 1.0>1.3[1.0]
AS SEA-YLW JAN 1.0>1.4[1.4] FEB 1.0>1.5[1.4]
AS SEA-YYC JAN 1.4>1.0[1.0] FEB 1.5>1.0[1.0]
DL CVG-SEA FEB 0.3>0[0]
G4 BLI-LAS FEB 0.7>2[2] MAY 0>1.1[2]
G4 BLI-OAK FEB 0.1>0.4[0.4] MAR 0>0.5[0.6] MAY 0>0.2[0.5]
G4 BLI-PSP FEB 0.3>0.7[0.6] MAR 0>0.9[0.8] APR 0>0.7[0.5] MAY 0>0.3[0.4]
G4 BLI-TUS DEC 0>0.3[0] JAN 0>0.3[0] FEB 0>0.3[0] MAR 0>0.3[0] APR 0>0.3[0]
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:57 pm

Yesterday Alaska's summer schedule ended and with that a lot of equipment changes and aircraft swaps occurred at SEA. I checked FR24 today to note some aircraft changes. Here's a summary of the route swaps that I noticed, and keep in mind that by no means is this a complete list. By the way, I just use A320 to refer to the entire family since there's little rhyme or reason to when the A319 or A21N show up

-JFK, IAD, DEN, SJC, and PDX lose A320 service
-BUR and SNA get the A320 now
-SFO, LAX, and SAN have a lot more A320 flights now, becoming a 3:1 Airbus-Boeing ratio for SFO and 1:1 for LAX and SAN now approximately
-AUS goes all-A320
-SLC (a resumption IIRC) and LAX see E175 service now. The latter is only a single daily flight, so it probably exists only to better connect the fleet between California and the PNW.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
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FA9295
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:20 pm

Alaska adds SEA-CMH from March 1, 2019: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1402645
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:23 pm

FA9295 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279809/delta-expands-a350-900xwb-tokyo-service-from-march-2019/

Delta will have the A359 on SEA-NRT from March 1, 2019 to March 31, 2019.

I just checked Google Flights and DL's website, and they both show the A359 on SEA-NRT until the end of the schedule now. I know that this is a year out and everything can change but they might have found a spare A350 to operate it....or perhaps it's a placeholder for a future upgrade to the A339?
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
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ER757
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:56 pm

717atOGG wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279809/delta-expands-a350-900xwb-tokyo-service-from-march-2019/

Delta will have the A359 on SEA-NRT from March 1, 2019 to March 31, 2019.

I just checked Google Flights and DL's website, and they both show the A359 on SEA-NRT until the end of the schedule now. I know that this is a year out and everything can change but they might have found a spare A350 to operate it....or perhaps it's a placeholder for a future upgrade to the A339?

Actually only 6 months out, but point taken, things can definitely change in that amount of time. I remember when AF first announced their return to SEA the announcement said it would be with the 787.
On an A350-related note, I live fairly close to KSEA and have seen, and more importantly heard OZ's A359 departing on a few occasions. I must say it is the coolest sounding engine since the DC-10! Even beats the RR buzzsaws on the NH 787
 
BA
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:18 pm

Some recent pictures of the Paine Field terminal with the glass jet bridges being installed:
https://www.painefield.com/218/Commerci ... rvice-FAQs
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:42 am

I'm wondering, just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the most popular European destinations for the FI SEA-KEF flight are? Over in the DTW thread I read an interesting post about where the checked bags from their WW flight were heading. That got me thinking about FI and its success here, and what destinations are primarily fueling that. I know that the chances of someone being able to answer this are slim, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask anyways.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
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7BOEING7
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:26 am

717atOGG wrote:
I'm wondering, just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the most popular European destinations for the FI SEA-KEF flight are? Over in the DTW thread I read an interesting post about where the checked bags from their WW flight were heading. That got me thinking about FI and its success here, and what destinations are primarily fueling that. I know that the chances of someone being able to answer this are slim, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask anyways.


Two 757’s leave her in the late afternoon to connect with a 767 to CDG, so Paris is one answer.
 
BA
Posts: 10516
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:22 pm

Here's an article on the Concourse D hardstand holdroom with six gates. It'll open in October which will bring up the total number of bus gates at Sea-Tac to 10.

https://news.theregistryps.com/hoks-con ... c-airport/
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
717atOGG
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:21 pm

OAG updates week of 9/2:

AS ALW-SEA JAN 3>2[3] FEB 3>2[3]
AS AUS-SEA FEB 1.5>1.9[1.7] MAR 1.5>2[1.7] APR 1.5>2[1.7] MAY 1.5>2[1.8]
AS BIL-SEA FEB 2>1.6[1.9]
AS BOI-GEG JAN 2>1.9[2] FEB 2>1.7[2]
*AS CMH-SEA MAR 0>0.8[0] APR 0>1.0[0] MAY 0>1.0[0] JUN 0>1.0[0]
AS DFW-SEA JAN 3>2[2]
AS FAT-SEA JAN 3>2[2]
AS FCA-SEA JAN 2>3[3] FEB 2>3[3]
AS GTF-SEA JAN 1.6>1.1[1.0] FEB 1.6>1.0[1.0]
AS IAH-SEA JAN 2>1.2[1.2] FEB 2>1.5[1.0]
AS LAS-SEA JAN 8>9[7] FEB 8>9[7]
AS LAX-SEA JAN 15>13[12]
AS MFR-SEA JAN 4>3[3] FEB 4>3[3]
AS ONT-SEA JAN 3>2[2] FEB 3>2[2]
AS PDX-SEA JAN 25>23[24] FEB 26>23[23]
AS PHX-SEA JAN 5>7[5] FEB 7>8[6]
AS RDM-SEA FEB 5>6[5]
AS SAN-SEA JAN 7>9[7] FEB 7>9[6]
AS SEA-SFO JAN 13>15[10] FEB 13>15[9] SEA-SFO has more daily flights than LAX now on AS. Interesting.
*AS SEA-SJC JAN 7>10[7] FEB 7>11[7] MAR 7>8[7] This route has got to be a bloodbath, with almost 20 daily flights between AS, DL, and WN.
AS SEA-SMF JAN 6>5[5] FEB 6>5[5]
AS SEA-SNA FEB 8>9[8]
AS SEA-STS JAN 1.8>1.0[1.0] FEB 2>1.0[1.0]
AS SEA-YEG JAN 1.9>1.5[3] FEB 2>1.4[2]
AS SEA-YKM JAN 3>4[4] FEB 3>4[3]
AS SEA-YVR JAN 6>5[5] FEB 6>5[4]
DL SEA-YEG MAR 0.7>0.9[1.7]
WN DEN-SEA MAR 0.5>2[4] APR 0>2[4] MAY 0>2[4] JUN 0>2[5] Wow, only 2x daily. I would have thought they could support a higher frequency than that.
WN MDW-SEA MAR 0.3>1.8[2] APR 0>1.9[3] MAY 0>1.9[3] JUN 0>1.8[4]
WN SEA-SMF MAR 0.7>4[4] APR 0>4[5] MAY 0>4[5] JUN 0>4[5]
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:32 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
I'm wondering, just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the most popular European destinations for the FI SEA-KEF flight are? Over in the DTW thread I read an interesting post about where the checked bags from their WW flight were heading. That got me thinking about FI and its success here, and what destinations are primarily fueling that. I know that the chances of someone being able to answer this are slim, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask anyways.


Two 757’s leave her in the late afternoon to connect with a 767 to CDG, so Paris is one answer.


The other part of it is that FI has a codeshare agreement with AS. I'm sure AS connects a lot of people to FI. They also provide the quickest connection to Scandinavia.
 
BA
Posts: 10516
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:11 pm

I read on the POS commission site that the full complete renovation of the South Satellite is being postponed and will not be done for another 10-15 years. As a result, the port is trying to plan some interim renovations, mainly consisting of upgrading the HVAC system.

I know the port was exploring launching an extensive renovation/rebuild like what's being done for the North Satellite, after the IAF is complete in 2020.

The South Satellite, while not particularly nice, is in much better shape than the North Satellite, so I can understand postponing a complete rebuild. Not to mention a rebuild after the IAF completion will likely be quite disruptive to international flight operations.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5056
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:15 pm

Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5056
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:33 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989


I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5056
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:51 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989


I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.

I think they are going mainline as they could use the public RNAV approaches for free for alternates.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6343
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:55 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989


I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.


I thought Whitehorse was an alternate for JNU. I know that AS has diverted into there.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:04 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989


I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.

I think they are going mainline as they could use the public RNAV approaches for free for alternates.

Great! For S17, KTN and SIT had average loads in the mid-80s (and they do significantly better in July and August than in June). Another user from a thread that mentioned these routes said that SIT performs slightly better than KTN because the SIT flight RONs there, so hopefully KTN can become a RON too if this change happens.

Oh, and while we're on the note of DL Alaska flights, FAI is going back to E175 during winter. I don't know why though since IIRC they had to weight-restrict that flight on occasion even in summer and the flight does pretty well year-round, so I thought they could make a daily A319 work during the off-season.
Last edited by 717atOGG on Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:08 pm

717atOGG wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:

I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.

I think they are going mainline as they could use the public RNAV approaches for free for alternates.

Great! For S17, KTN and SIT had average loads in the mid-80s (and they do significantly better in July and August than in June). Another user from a thread that mentioned these routes said that SIT performs slightly better than KTN because the SIT flight RONs there, so hopefully KTN can become a RON too if this change happens, and maybe JNU can go year-round sometime soon as well.


That was me on the KTN RON comment.

Don’t look for DL to be year-round in JNU again. It was an operational disaster when they tried to send Skywest in there in the winter, and the winter loads don’t really justify a 737 for Delta. It also doesn’t help that DL’s VP in charge of SEA basically threw Juneau under the bus when they went back to seasonal by saying that nobody in JNU was flying DL in the winter. Despite the fact that, you know, the CR7 they provided couldn’t land or take off routinely.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:11 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Delta flying practice approaches into SIT and KTN today with a 737. Upgauges next summer?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9989


I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.


I thought Whitehorse was an alternate for JNU. I know that AS has diverted into there.


I don’t think AS has landed at YXY on a diversion in many years. Usually AS heads to SIT, or whatever the next milk run stop is (PSG or YAK) when they can’t get into JNU.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:15 pm

Chugach wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I think they are going mainline as they could use the public RNAV approaches for free for alternates.

Great! For S17, KTN and SIT had average loads in the mid-80s (and they do significantly better in July and August than in June). Another user from a thread that mentioned these routes said that SIT performs slightly better than KTN because the SIT flight RONs there, so hopefully KTN can become a RON too if this change happens, and maybe JNU can go year-round sometime soon as well.


That was me on the KTN RON comment.

Don’t look for DL to be year-round in JNU again. It was an operational disaster when they tried to send Skywest in there in the winter, and the winter loads don’t really justify a 737 for Delta. It also doesn’t help that DL’s VP in charge of SEA basically threw Juneau under the bus when they went back to seasonal by saying that nobody in JNU was flying DL in the winter. Despite the fact that, you know, the CR7 they provided couldn’t land or take off routinely.

Duly noted, I said that then checked BTS Transtats only to see that their loads were horrid when they tried that in W15/16, so I edited that part out. To be fair though, they do very well in peak summer (96.53% in July 2017) so it wouldn't hurt to maybe add a 2nd daily flight during that time.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:18 pm

717atOGG wrote:
Chugach wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Great! For S17, KTN and SIT had average loads in the mid-80s (and they do significantly better in July and August than in June). Another user from a thread that mentioned these routes said that SIT performs slightly better than KTN because the SIT flight RONs there, so hopefully KTN can become a RON too if this change happens, and maybe JNU can go year-round sometime soon as well.


That was me on the KTN RON comment.

Don’t look for DL to be year-round in JNU again. It was an operational disaster when they tried to send Skywest in there in the winter, and the winter loads don’t really justify a 737 for Delta. It also doesn’t help that DL’s VP in charge of SEA basically threw Juneau under the bus when they went back to seasonal by saying that nobody in JNU was flying DL in the winter. Despite the fact that, you know, the CR7 they provided couldn’t land or take off routinely.

Duly noted, I said that then checked BTS Transtats only to see that their loads were horrid when they tried that in W15/16, so I edited that part out. To be fair though, they do very well in peak summer (96.53% in July 2017) so it wouldn't hurt to maybe add a 2nd daily flight during that time.


That, or send the 757 in there again. Although, I don’t recall if DL got the 757 certified for its JAWS approach into JNU, or if it was just the 738.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6343
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Chugach wrote:

I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.


I thought Whitehorse was an alternate for JNU. I know that AS has diverted into there.


I don’t think AS has landed at YXY on a diversion in many years. Usually AS heads to SIT, or whatever the next milk run stop is (PSG or YAK) when they can’t get into JNU.


You're right. Time flies rapidly. I remembered reading about such an event "recently". I looked it up. It was 2010. AS had an FMC failure going to JNU so they went over to YXY.
 
QXAS
Posts: 366
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:26 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:14 pm

Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Chugach wrote:

I just saw that and was going to post the same thing. My guess is either they’re upgrading to mainline, or planning on using SIT/KTN as a diversion in case JNU is socked in...historically DL tends to go back to SEA if they can’t land in JNU.


I thought Whitehorse was an alternate for JNU. I know that AS has diverted into there.


I don’t think AS has landed at YXY on a diversion in many years. Usually AS heads to SIT, or whatever the next milk run stop is (PSG or YAK) when they can’t get into JNU.
How often can they not get into Juneau? The approach they have up there has tiny minimums.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:16 pm

QXAS wrote:
Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I thought Whitehorse was an alternate for JNU. I know that AS has diverted into there.


I don’t think AS has landed at YXY on a diversion in many years. Usually AS heads to SIT, or whatever the next milk run stop is (PSG or YAK) when they can’t get into JNU.
How often can they not get into Juneau? The approach they have up there has tiny minimums.


The stats are out there, but it has improved significantly since AS (and then DL) invested in proprietary approach software for JNU. There are still times when AS can’t get in during winter, but it is much more reliable than it used to be.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:18 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I thought Whitehorse was an alternate for JNU. I know that AS has diverted into there.


I don’t think AS has landed at YXY on a diversion in many years. Usually AS heads to SIT, or whatever the next milk run stop is (PSG or YAK) when they can’t get into JNU.


You're right. Time flies rapidly. I remembered reading about such an event "recently". I looked it up. It was 2010. AS had an FMC failure going to JNU so they went over to YXY.


DL has landed there a couple of times on the MSP-ANC run, too.

I’d love AS to give YXY a shot sometime, but that’s for a different thread.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5056
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:12 pm

I can’t imagine they’d pay for said proprietary approaches into sit and KTN without planning on using them.

I wonder if AS will be happy to cede a portion of these markets. With their freighter op separate now they may want to scale back their passenger ops.

It seems like they have a freighter in the air almost all the time in SE AK these days.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:47 pm

Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Chugach wrote:

I don’t think AS has landed at YXY on a diversion in many years. Usually AS heads to SIT, or whatever the next milk run stop is (PSG or YAK) when they can’t get into JNU.


You're right. Time flies rapidly. I remembered reading about such an event "recently". I looked it up. It was 2010. AS had an FMC failure going to JNU so they went over to YXY.


DL has landed there a couple of times on the MSP-ANC run, too.

I’d love AS to give YXY a shot sometime, but that’s for a different thread.


As much as I would like to see YXY work for AS, I don't there's enough demand, even for an E-175. AS couldn't make Kamloops and another (the city I can't remember) work. If AS opens a new city in Canada, it could be YYZ or Regina. But that's just my 2 cents.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5056
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:11 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

You're right. Time flies rapidly. I remembered reading about such an event "recently". I looked it up. It was 2010. AS had an FMC failure going to JNU so they went over to YXY.


DL has landed there a couple of times on the MSP-ANC run, too.

I’d love AS to give YXY a shot sometime, but that’s for a different thread.


As much as I would like to see YXY work for AS, I don't there's enough demand, even for an E-175. AS couldn't make Kamloops and another (the city I can't remember) work. If AS opens a new city in Canada, it could be YYZ or Regina. But that's just my 2 cents.
YXY is already served by right sized PC12s from JNU. However air north makes FAI Dawson’s City work on a 737 so there is some market to neither canada
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6343
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:15 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Chugach wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

You're right. Time flies rapidly. I remembered reading about such an event "recently". I looked it up. It was 2010. AS had an FMC failure going to JNU so they went over to YXY.


DL has landed there a couple of times on the MSP-ANC run, too.

I’d love AS to give YXY a shot sometime, but that’s for a different thread.


As much as I would like to see YXY work for AS, I don't there's enough demand, even for an E-175. AS couldn't make Kamloops and another (the city I can't remember) work. If AS opens a new city in Canada, it could be YYZ or Regina. But that's just my 2 cents.


It was Prince George. It flew for like one month on a Q400 and was discontinued. That's probably the shortest that AS ever served a destination.

Kamloops was Winter seasonal and lasted for a few seasons.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:49 am

32andBelow wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Chugach wrote:

DL has landed there a couple of times on the MSP-ANC run, too.

I’d love AS to give YXY a shot sometime, but that’s for a different thread.


As much as I would like to see YXY work for AS, I don't there's enough demand, even for an E-175. AS couldn't make Kamloops and another (the city I can't remember) work. If AS opens a new city in Canada, it could be YYZ or Regina. But that's just my 2 cents.
YXY is already served by right sized PC12s from JNU. However air north makes FAI Dawson’s City work on a 737 so there is some market to neither canada


The Air North charters are for Holland America tourists only. I don’t think anyone else can get on them.
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