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stl07
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:12 am

ncflyer wrote:
I thought PIT paid $1.5mm? Maybe I’m getting LHR confused with CDG…

LHR was 3 million for 2 years meaning 1.5 mil per year
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zackary747
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:03 am

flightsimer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Not as familiar with PA but am with Ohio. The three Cs are huge competitors with each other and divide the states attention. Furthermore Cinci county is red, Cleveland county blue, and Columbus purplish to blue. The state govt is very red, no blue state office holders, both legislativd houses are veto proof red— CLE is especially hurt with this dynamic, the state is not aligned politically. Rural interests have gotten so much more powerful lately, partly due to gerrymandering. State support for public transit, cities, and local education have been totally hammered since the Great Recession, with absolutely no interest from state politicians to restore with a better economy, meaning locAl taxes are going up in the cities The one thing OH spends a lot of money on is widening highways— which subsidizes sprawl outside of the three Cs and has been a huge factor in Cleveland’s population decline. I can’t see Ohio doing heavy lifting for CLE it’s been one dagger after the other. I’ve lived in “one big city” states of MA and IL and the dynamic is night and day to Ohio. From afar what’s happening in IND and MSP is most impressive, the states seem so aligned.


My question though is how is PIT offering $9 million dollars for CDG not outrageous, but IND offering $5 million dollars is outrageous?

There is a difference between offering and paying. PIT offered 9 million for two years service via revenue guarantees. They did not pay 9 million as the second year, Delta was making money on the flight itself. I believe the total cost was estimated to be around 5 million.


I hope you realize IND set the incentives up to where Delta has to FILL THE AIRCRAFT to get the money. Empty aircraft = no money.

The fact is Indy is more responsible with incentive money than Pittsburgh will ever be....
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AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 am

Lol these subsidies are such a touchy subject on here. Was a pretty peaceful message board until the Great Second Tier City TATL Subsidy Wars began. Now the knives are fully out.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:10 am

I would be caution against any conclusion about PIT-DUB
 
ckpaeg
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:11 am

Caution about what? The viability? The subsidy? The announcement of the route???
 
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flymco753
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:11 am

There's going to be a mid-size city beef if PIT or IND gets DUB over the other over subsidies. Starring PIT, IND, CLE, CMH and BNA. It won't be pretty but it's going to spark important conversation.
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DeltaRules
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:00 pm

flymco753 wrote:
There's going to be a mid-size city beef if PIT or IND gets DUB over the other over subsidies. Starring PIT, IND, CLE, CMH and BNA. It won't be pretty but it's going to spark important conversation.


There's already a mid-size city beef (or, maybe, envy is the term). I've been watching PIT throw money at everybody for years and get to the point where they got so ambitious that they forced the original player (DL) out because they flew too close to the Sun with 4 TATL flights, only to (apparently) do it again weeks later with EI. Meanwhile, my airport (CMH) was confirmed to have been passed over by both FI and WW (though DL is very much still in play), is only just now waking up to the idea of incentives, and has seen every mid-sized city in the region get Iceland/mainland Europe in the last couple years except itself.
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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm

zackary747 wrote:

I hope you realize IND set the incentives up to where Delta has to FILL THE AIRCRAFT to get the money. Empty aircraft = no money.

The fact is Indy is more responsible with incentive money than Pittsburgh will ever be....


What does any of that mean? What does 'Fill' mean? Are you saying they have LF commitments? I won't address the IND is more responsible...not sure what you mean by that.
 
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zackary747
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:40 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

I hope you realize IND set the incentives up to where Delta has to FILL THE AIRCRAFT to get the money. Empty aircraft = no money.

The fact is Indy is more responsible with incentive money than Pittsburgh will ever be....


What does any of that mean? What does 'Fill' mean? Are you saying they have LF commitments? I won't address the IND is more responsible...not sure what you mean by that.


In order for delta to earn all 5 million dollars the seats onboard the aircraft have to be filled. The less seats they fill, the less money they receive.

Pittsburgh has been extremely wasteful with subsides. That TPAC flight subsidy would of never been approved here in Indy. It was extremely hard years ago for IND to get incentive money for the SFO flight. Once that flight proved successful then it was slightly easier to get flights that way. IND was smart in the way they set up the incentives for the Paris flight, and it shows deltas faith in the Indy market. It’s no secret that Pittsburgh has spent more than they had to on flights. The China Eastern thing was the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Absolute waste of money. The rest I personally have no problem with.


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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:49 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Clipper2Heavy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

I hope you realize IND set the incentives up to where Delta has to FILL THE AIRCRAFT to get the money. Empty aircraft = no money.

The fact is Indy is more responsible with incentive money than Pittsburgh will ever be....


What does any of that mean? What does 'Fill' mean? Are you saying they have LF commitments? I won't address the IND is more responsible...not sure what you mean by that.


In order for delta to earn all 5 million dollars the seats onboard the aircraft have to be filled. The less seats they fill, the less money they receive.

Pittsburgh has been extremely wasteful with subsides. That TPAC flight subsidy would of never been approved here in Indy. It was extremely hard years ago for IND to get incentive money for the SFO flight. Once that flight proved successful then it was slightly easier to get flights that way. IND was smart in the way they set up the incentives for the Paris flight, and it shows deltas faith in the Indy market. It’s no secret that Pittsburgh has spent more than they had to on flights. The China Eastern thing was the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Absolute waste of money. The rest I personally have no problem with.


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Again...'Fill' is a very misleading choice of word considering the below article and quote for Delta to have to have an LF of slightly north of 50% to be able to earn the ENTIRE incentive...

"Based on the 211 seats and assuming a seasonally fluctuating schedule of three to seven flights a week, IBJ calculations show Delta would have to fill about 58 percent of available seats in year one and about 52 percent in year two to earn the full incentive amount" https://www.ibj.com/articles/68571-term ... ndy-market

"
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:50 pm

flymco753 wrote:
There's going to be a mid-size city beef if PIT or IND gets DUB over the other over subsidies. Starring PIT, IND, CLE, CMH and BNA. It won't be pretty but it's going to spark important conversation.


I don't think IND is in the running for a flight to DUB, there has never been any indication from anyone involved in these things that IND was trying to get service to DUB or that IND was being considered by EI.
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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:14 pm

WW beginning their sales push to Europe via KEF to LGW, FRA and BRU.

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/newsroom/n ... ares-to-eu
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:04 pm

Hey guys new to the chat, this might be a random question but what are the building looking things where the dog ears form on concourses A & B?
 
SDFguy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:21 pm

zackary747 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The fact is Indy is more responsible with incentive money than Pittsburgh will ever be....


LOL, what on earth is this even supposed to mean? We get it, you like your city. Let's cut the nonsense.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:31 pm

SDFguy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:


LOL, what on earth is this even supposed to mean? We get it, you like your city. Let's cut the nonsense.


LOL This has nothing to do with me 'liking' my city. I am just stating my opinion (my city has nothing to do with this opinion). Ok, let's take Indy out of the equation. Pittsburgh spent around 900k for those two charter flights with China Eastern. Extremely wasteful and it did not have the impact that stated it was going to be. Find another medium sized market that would fork out 900k in subsides for 2 charter flights to Shanghai. It wouldn't happen. It's no secret that Pittsburgh has been trigger happy with subsides. That money should be spent with more caution. I am also not the first person on here to talk about the wasteful spending. Now, I wish to not start an argument on here so I will not reply to any further comments. Good day.
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Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:40 pm

zackary747 wrote:
SDFguy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:


LOL, what on earth is this even supposed to mean? We get it, you like your city. Let's cut the nonsense.


LOL This has nothing to do with me 'liking' my city. I am just stating my opinion (my city has nothing to do with this opinion). Ok, let's take Indy out of the equation. Pittsburgh spent around 900k for those two charter flights with China Eastern. Extremely wasteful and it did not have the impact that stated it was going to be. Find another medium sized market that would fork out 900k in subsides for 2 charter flights to Shanghai. It wouldn't happen. It's no secret that Pittsburgh has been trigger happy with subsides. That money should be spent with more caution. I am also not the first person on here to talk about the wasteful spending. Now, I wish to not start an argument on here so I will not reply to any further comments. Good day.

It's more than 2 flights it's 3 years of flights. Next year I believe we get 5 flights to and from China. Also the flight was sold out so there has to be a demand.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:27 pm

zackary747 wrote:
SDFguy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:


LOL, what on earth is this even supposed to mean? We get it, you like your city. Let's cut the nonsense.


LOL This has nothing to do with me 'liking' my city. I am just stating my opinion (my city has nothing to do with this opinion). Ok, let's take Indy out of the equation. Pittsburgh spent around 900k for those two charter flights with China Eastern. Extremely wasteful and it did not have the impact that stated it was going to be. Find another medium sized market that would fork out 900k in subsides for 2 charter flights to Shanghai. It wouldn't happen. It's no secret that Pittsburgh has been trigger happy with subsides. That money should be spent with more caution. I am also not the first person on here to talk about the wasteful spending. Now, I wish to not start an argument on here so I will not reply to any further comments. Good day.


No need for you to respond, unless you feel like it. It's an open forum....One persons 'wasteful spending' is another's 'creative out of the box thinking.' It is what it is. Incentives are just as much an art as they are a science. I am of the opinion that the ACAA has done a lot to get an Airport and community back to service levels we haven't seen in almost a decade. If incentive money had to be spent...so be it. If you are going to speak in such certainties..."It wouldn't happen' relative to other cities and similar incentives...I'd caution you on that statement. Incentives are getting very popular right now...and you could very well see an airport like IND pay for a TPAC of some sort.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:45 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Pittsburgh spent around 900k for those two charter flights with China Eastern. Extremely wasteful and it did not have the impact that stated it was going to be.
I'm not sure how one can make that assertion since the stated impact was for it to be successful enough for it to lead to a higher number of charters next year, and if those are successful then more after that, etc., until a scheduled service can start in 5-7 years. So it's a few years too early to be stating that subsidy was wasteful and did not have the desired impact. As of now every seat was full from the China end so lets see what happens next year. Furthermore, a large chunk of that subsidy came from regional travel bureaus. My point being the PVG charter was very unique and it's not an apples to apples comparison with typical subsidies for scheduled int'l service.
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:16 pm

This is my take on the whole thing. This right here is the most frustrating thing about not only some A.net users, but also local Pittsburghers and especially PG readers. Some are claiming the new service here is an absolute waste of money... yet they all begged for more nonstop service and lower fares all over the news 5-10 years ago! It seems like some all of a sudden want to go back to sqaure one and shell out $400 to fly on an awful CRJ/ERJ through PHL, JFK, or ORD to get to wherever they’re going and deal with the mess that those facilities become god forbid lighting hits the ground. I had to do that for so many years having to go through PHL and DCA to fly into MHT visiting family until fares dramatically improved on PIT-BOS thanks to more service being added. That’s just one example.

It’s really embarrassing. Seems as though people in Pittsburgh like to complain about almost eveything. Shoutout to the frequent PG poster that likes to acknowledge us as “airport apologists”. LOL :roll:

I think what the ACAA has done is pretty resonable for the most part. Yeah, the J1 operation and MU charters ended up being ridiculous IMO, and there are some things about the new terminal plan that I question. Other than that, I have zero issues with what the ACAA has done. That money they are using could’ve been applied to yet another useless program and we’d be stuck with service levels equivalent to 2012. As many of those idiot PG readers that exist, there are a lot of peolpe that are very happy that they can now travel more often or deal with less hassle getting someplace. That has been addressed very well IMO and the airport should continue to do that.
Last edited by Runway28L on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DeltaRules
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:20 pm

Since it was discussed upthread, apparently, the destinations for EI's announcement tomorrow are YUL and MSP. PHL goes A330 so that YUL can shift to the 757.
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zackary747
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:22 pm

Runway28L wrote:
This is my take on the whole thing. This right here is the most frustrating thing about not only some A.net users, but also local Pittsburghers and especially PG readers. Some are claiming the new service here is an absolute waste of money... yet they all begged for more nonstop service and lower fares all over the news 5-10 years ago! It seems like a lot of people want to go back to sqaure one and shell out $400 to fly on an awful CRJ/ERJ through PHL, JFK, or ORD to get to wherever they’re going and deal with the mess that those facilities become god forbid lighting hits the ground. I had to do that for so many years having to go through PHL and DCA to fly into MHT visiting family until fares dramatically improved on PIT-BOS thanks to more service being added. That’s just one example.

It’s really embarrassing. Seems as though people in Pittsburgh like to complain about almost eveything. Shoutout to the frequent PG poster that likes to acknowledge us as “airport apologists”. LOL :roll:

I think what the ACAA has done is pretty resonable for the most part. Yeah, the J1 operation and MU charters ended up being ridiculous IMO, and there are some things about the new terminal plan that I question. Other than that, I have zero issues with what the ACAA has done. That money they are using could’ve been applied to yet another useless program and we’d be stuck with service levels equivalent to 2012. As many of those idiot PG readers that exist, there are a lot of peolpe that are very happy that they can now travel more often or deal with less hassle getting someplace. That has been addressed very well IMO and the airport should continue to do that.


I completely agree with you. For some reason people on here are trying to make it out that I am anti-subsidy. I am not that person. I am actually very pro subsidy. I just think subsidies have to be used properly and responsibility. Yes, for the most part PIT hasn't wasted money with the exception of a couple incidents. I am not referring to all PIT subsidies but just a select few. I am also for airports spending more on TPAC flights but it has to be used for business travel on a non-charter basis.
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DeltaRules
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:33 pm

Runway28L wrote:
This is my take on the whole thing. This right here is the most frustrating thing about not only some A.net users, but also local Pittsburghers and especially PG readers. Some are claiming the new service here is an absolute waste of money... yet they all begged for more nonstop service and lower fares all over the news 5-10 years ago! It seems like some all of a sudden want to go back to sqaure one and shell out $400 to fly on an awful CRJ/ERJ through PHL, JFK, or ORD to get to wherever they’re going and deal with the mess that those facilities become god forbid lighting hits the ground. I had to do that for so many years having to go through PHL and DCA to fly into MHT visiting family until fares dramatically improved on PIT-BOS thanks to more service being added. That’s just one example.

It’s really embarrassing. Seems as though people in Pittsburgh like to complain about almost eveything. Shoutout to the frequent PG poster that likes to acknowledge us as “airport apologists”. LOL :roll:

I think what the ACAA has done is pretty resonable for the most part. Yeah, the J1 operation and MU charters ended up being ridiculous IMO, and there are some things about the new terminal plan that I question. Other than that, I have zero issues with what the ACAA has done. That money they are using could’ve been applied to yet another useless program and we’d be stuck with service levels equivalent to 2012. As many of those idiot PG readers that exist, there are a lot of peolpe that are very happy that they can now travel more often or deal with less hassle getting someplace. That has been addressed very well IMO and the airport should continue to do that.


As an outsider, I think ACAA's done a great job given they have a lot of service they probably otherwise wouldn't have, with the misses being J1, the China charters (which seem like a massive longshot for scheduled service), and you could argue BA because it cost them service they might have otherwise kept with DL bowing out almost immediately (though, in the end, that one could wind up a wash to a net win for the locals as long as DE and/or WW don't bail). I'd be really curious to learn if Cassotis thought PIT could handle four TATL carriers side-by-side or they went into paying BA knowing the risk of losing DL service which had stood on its own for years.

I think PIT-SEA will be a measuring stick for how CMH-SEA might do for AS since Columbus finally opened the pocketbook, even though it sounds like CRAA, et al. paid a bit less for SEA than ACAA did.
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pitbosflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:37 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Lol these subsidies are such a touchy subject on here. Was a pretty peaceful message board until the Great Second Tier City TATL Subsidy Wars began. Now the knives are fully out.


Amen
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:39 pm

DeltaRules wrote:

As an outsider, I think ACAA's done a great job given they have a lot of service they probably otherwise wouldn't have, with the misses being J1, the China charters (which seem like a massive longshot for scheduled service), and you could argue BA because it cost them service they might have otherwise kept with DL bowing out almost immediately (though, in the end, that one could wind up a wash to a net win for the locals as long as DE and/or WW don't bail). I'd be really curious to learn if Cassotis thought PIT could handle four TATL carriers side-by-side or they went into paying BA knowing the risk of losing DL service which had stood on its own for years.

I think PIT-SEA will be a measuring stick for how CMH-SEA might do for AS since Columbus finally opened the pocketbook, even though it sounds like CRAA, et al. paid a bit less for SEA than ACAA did.


They could have signed BA because they knew DL was leaving anyway. Just speculation of course, but maybe DL was out the door either way so they got BA to fill the void.
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:

They could have signed BA because they knew DL was leaving anyway. Just speculation of course, but maybe DL was out the door either way so they got BA to fill the void.


Your speculation is almost as exact quote from Cassotis:

"Delta remains an incredibly important partner,” Cassotis said. “Whether to continue the Paris route is something they’ve been considering for several years. That made it even more important that our passengers have additional options on British Airways, WOW and Condor, two of which are year-round.”

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/newsroom/b ... rket-heats
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:51 pm

PIT chased BA because London is the #1 O&D market by miles, and if we're going to have anything, that's going to be the easiest to hang on to for the foreseeable future. I can't imagine there being any other reason.
 
Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:29 pm

The Great A.NET Caper of 2018 will surely go down as the EI DUB new route announcement of 2018! The Thread stating it would be MSP and YUL has been deleted and I can find nothing on Aer Lingus website or anywhere...the mystery continues
 
Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:50 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Shoutout to the frequent PG poster that likes to acknowledge us as “airport apologists”. LOL :roll:


I have to thank you for this...I never really read the PG Comments section...just always read the articles and left it at that. I just revisited some...and the 'airport apologists' moniker....oh man, I needed a really good laugh!!! Thanks for that!!! I think we need that on a T-Shirt!!!!
 
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:50 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
No need for you to respond, unless you feel like it. It's an open forum....One persons 'wasteful spending' is another's 'creative out of the box thinking.' It is what it is. Incentives are just as much an art as they are a science. I am of the opinion that the ACAA has done a lot to get an Airport and community back to service levels we haven't seen in almost a decade. If incentive money had to be spent...so be it. If you are going to speak in such certainties..."It wouldn't happen' relative to other cities and similar incentives...I'd caution you on that statement. Incentives are getting very popular right now...and you could very well see an airport like IND pay for a TPAC of some sort.


IND is likely going to pay for TPAC service. It was stated earlier this year in Indiana that a deal for Asia service was expected by the end of this year. And now the state has a plan to fund $20 million in incentives for various routes...Asia included. So officials have been negotiating and now they have the money to back the route.
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Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:36 am

This may seem like a random question but does anyone know what the building looking things are on concourses A and B before the dog ears
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:13 am

Gsasala wrote:
This may seem like a random question but does anyone know what the building looking things are on concourses A and B before the dog ears

Those are abandoned airline lounges. US Airways used to have 3 lounges at PIT during the hub, including those two on top of A and B.
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PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:30 am

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
The Great A.NET Caper of 2018 will surely go down as the EI DUB new route announcement of 2018! The Thread stating it would be MSP and YUL has been deleted and I can find nothing on Aer Lingus website or anywhere...the mystery continues


Quite the eventful day on the forums. The endless discussion on subsidies and the mystery of where the EI flights are going to go. I hope we find this out soon.

Apparently there’s an Uber glitch that’s giving riders in other cities only one destination; the Pittsburgh Airport. Even riders in New York. Hmm. Long ride
https://twitter.com/annettebiebszz/stat ... 02529?s=21
 
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IrishTexan
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:51 am

Seems that the source linked in my previous post has now edited his predicted route info with PIT now replaced by BWI and MSP.
IrishTexan wrote:
EI to announce PIT on 9/12/18?
From http://www.travelextra.ie/travel-extra- ... er-9-2018/
Is the cold war between Aer Lingus and Dublin airport warming up since the new passenger transfer facilities were opened? Apparently so. Simon McAllister, from research company EY (confusingly, the call sign of Etihad) will present a report, the Economic Impact of Development of Dublin Airport as a hub, on Wednesday at a lunchtime event where Aer Lingus announce their two latest trans-Atlantic routes. Stephen Kavanagh will announce the services to Pittsburgh and Montreal, bringing to 22 the number of trans-Atlantic destinations served directly from Dublin, 15 of them by Aer Lingus. Travel Extra remembers when there were just three, and they were via a compulsory Shannon stopover.


Link to Travel Extra newly edited article now without PIT.
http://www.travelextra.ie/minneapolis-s ... k-in-2019/

Will EI will actually announce something tomorrow?
 
JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:15 am

flyPIT wrote:
Stolen from the Irish thread (thanks to IrishTexan):

"Simon McAllister, from research company EY (confusingly, the call sign of Etihad) will present a report, the Economic Impact of Development of Dublin Airport as a hub, on Wednesday at a lunchtime event where Aer Lingus announce their two latest trans-Atlantic routes. Stephen Kavanagh will announce the services to Pittsburgh and Montreal,"
http://www.travelextra.ie/travel-extra-sunday-supplement-september-9-2018/

Keeping my fingers crossed for some good news on Wednesday.

I just had a look at that article again. It's been changed - Pittsburgh's been taken out in favour of BWI and Minneapolis. :(

Edit: Shoot, beaten to it. Should've been paying attention to this thread.
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:49 am

So much for that PG article saying we were getting a flight to Dublin... http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1809100145
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:13 am

Cush wrote:
So much for that PG article saying we were getting a flight to Dublin... http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1809100145


To be fair, the article wasn’t wrong. Two separate reputable Irish media outlets did state Pittsburgh and Montreal would be announced.....
FLYi
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:59 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Cush wrote:
So much for that PG article saying we were getting a flight to Dublin... http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1809100145


To be fair, the article wasn’t wrong. Two separate reputable Irish media outlets did state Pittsburgh and Montreal would be announced.....

That, and that article's headline did read, "Flight to Dublin on the horizon-questionmark." The article basically asked the question whether there was a real possibility or not, rather than flat out confirm that EI was definitely going to announce this.

I love the fact that PIT has all of these transatlantic flights, but PIT's market right now is rather finite. FRA and LHR I think are the top European destinations for PIT travelers. I see KEF as a niche market for PIT that seems to be working. My 2cents on the whole TATL thing with PIT. :)
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kavok
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:01 pm

Maybe the EI PIT-DUB flight was planned, in an effort (combined with BA) to get DL out of the PIT-TATL market. Once IAG saw that DL was going to leave without a fight, the strategy of also adding EI PIT-DUB was moot. Just speculation...
 
Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:46 pm

Finally the July #'s have been released.

Solid July, up 6.6% compared to July '17 - 917,229
The year is remaining strong as well with 9.2% growth when compared to FY17 - 5,526,985
 
PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:48 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
I'd be really curious to learn if Cassotis thought PIT could handle four TATL carriers side-by-side or they went into paying BA knowing the risk of losing DL service which had stood on its own for years.


I agree, what isn't said was if the ACAA was expecting all four flights to co-exist. It sounds like there were some expectations that DL might pull PIT-CDG regardless of BA.

kavok wrote:
Maybe the EI PIT-DUB flight was planned, in an effort (combined with BA) to get DL out of the PIT-TATL market. Once IAG saw that DL was going to leave without a fight, the strategy of also adding EI PIT-DUB was moot. Just speculation...


Interesting theory, I'm guessing we will never know all the behind the scenes motivations and maneuvering. Did IAG actually want to get DL of of the PIT-CDG route? (IMHO the airlines never seem to be that competitive over a PIT route) But by that logic, would they not want to see WW gone as it offers the lowest fares?

What I'm really curious about is how close PIT was to getting the DUB flight. Why did so many rumors link EI to PIT? Is PIT still in the running in the next several years, maybe after the PIT-LHR flight has had a chance to start? What conversations might have taken place between EI and the ACAA?

I wonder if anyone on Cassotis's staff follows this thread...
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:03 pm

kavok wrote:
Maybe the EI PIT-DUB flight was planned, in an effort (combined with BA) to get DL out of the PIT-TATL market. Once IAG saw that DL was going to leave without a fight, the strategy of also adding EI PIT-DUB was moot. Just speculation...

That's a pretty fair speculation.

Still, it is neat to see three different airlines serving three different transatlantic markets from PIT. It would have been nice to see DL keep their seasonal flying going, but as I said earlier there are limits as to how large the transatlantic market is out of PIT. Even when US had their hub, their CDG flight was the weakest of the three. I think we'll see BA, Condor, and WOW have the transatlantic market well covered. Not to mention, I think EI would have ultimately cannibalized BA at LHR...
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:17 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Did IAG actually want to get DL of of the PIT-CDG route? (IMHO the airlines never seem to be that competitive over a PIT route) But by that logic, would they not want to see WW gone as it offers the lowest fares?

There is no way BA would have known DL was going to cut PIT-CDG when they announced PIT-LHR. I have to think they knew they were coming in to PIT as the 4th airline to Europe. I'd be surprised now if they don't up capacity a bit, at least in the summer.


PITexpress wrote:
What I'm really curious about is how close PIT was to getting the DUB flight. Why did so many rumors link EI to PIT? Is PIT still in the running in the next several years, maybe after the PIT-LHR flight has had a chance to start? What conversations might have taken place between EI and the ACAA?

I wonder if anyone on Cassotis's staff follows this thread...

I'd have to think extremely close considering the press it got. EI is getting a bunch of A321LRs and a couple A330s as well which could free up other aircraft so I think it will happen. Now's a good time for Condor to finalize a good schedule for next year; I hope what they are currently showing is not finalized.

Yes, Cassotis and staff follow this thread; she even responded in the P-G to some of us not being happy with the suggestion of closing 10R/28L.
FLYi
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:15 pm

What I'm thinking happened was the A321LRs are being delayed in shipment so instead of flying a B757 which wouldn't be close to full so they decided that MSP would have more people. I'm thinking they will add the service one they get their planes.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:29 pm

No reason to get bent out of shape for EI not selecting PIT. In fact, it is probably what is best for business short-term. Yields would've likely stumbled even further and the chances of the existing TATL carriers reacting negatively were a bit too high IMO.

On the flip side, EI's first four A321LRs will be delivered next year and another four will be delivered in 2020. Eventually they are going to have to decide on where to send them. If PIT is supposedly still high on EI's interests, then it is a possibility for a future date.
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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:42 pm

Runway28L wrote:
No reason to get bent out of shape for EI not selecting PIT. In fact, it is probably what is best for business short-term. Yields would've likely stumbled even further and the chances of the existing TATL carriers reacting negatively were a bit too high IMO.


Agreed. I think we are best served by allowing DE, WW and soon BA to mature their routes. As far as connectivity TATL....We're covered.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:47 pm

Lets look at the June 2018 statistics. Int'l was up a nice 25%. Unlike the prior year Condor operated for the entire month and started 3x weekly. Delta operated with a 763 which has about 70 more seats. So for June it was nice to see the market absorb that added capacity with a nice 25% increase in int'l passengers over 2017, which was already a huge increase over 2016.

Now if we look at the July 2018 numbers just released, int'l is only a paltry 2.4% increase. What happened and why the huge drop in growth rate from June? All that added capacity did nothing for July. Having watched the loads on DL's CDG flight I can say July sucked going outbound even though it did good inbound. IND sucked as bad if not more and CVG and RDU only looked marginally better. Regardless I'm sure July did not impress those who it matters to and might explain why the ACAA was so late in releasing the data. To add if we look at the frequency EI is adding at MSP - year round 7x weekly in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter - it just would have been too much. I was hoping for seasonal 4x weekly to start.

I'm still super excited for BA, they are not an easy airline to get and capacity to Europe will still be higher next year.
FLYi
 
Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:03 pm

flyPIT wrote:
What happened and why the huge drop in growth rate from June? All that added capacity did nothing for July. Having watched the loads on DL's CDG flight I can say July sucked going outbound even though it did good inbound.


Out of curiosity...do you have any figures on what the O&D for CDG/Paris was vs what the onward connections were relative the PIT-CDG flight?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:16 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
What happened and why the huge drop in growth rate from June? All that added capacity did nothing for July. Having watched the loads on DL's CDG flight I can say July sucked going outbound even though it did good inbound.


Out of curiosity...do you have any figures on what the O&D for CDG/Paris was vs what the onward connections were relative the PIT-CDG flight?

No, it will be several months before int'l LF's are released and when it is I'm not sure that there is a way to determine how much of it was O&D.
FLYi
 
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:34 pm

Looks like UA is extending mainline service on PIT-IAD once again. Found at least one mainline flight that now goes all the way out until February.

Found a few UA mainline flights to IAH in October and November. Not sure if that's new or not.

Lowest economy fare for PIT-SFO nonstop in November I found was $516. Ouch.
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Clipper2Heavy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:03 pm

Thinking about the US3 and further domestic growth...I don't see a clear Path for PIT.

AA - With the BA JV and LHR...maybe some additional P2P???
DL - Possible west coast connections?
UA - They have targets for Domestic growth but not sure what more they would do out of PIT.

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