IIRC they announced this years schedule in early September last year, and updated their website at the same time.

MSY wasn't officially announced as returning until October last year, so things are probably still in flux for DE. For one, I seriously doubt we'll be seeing DE flying to AUS next Summer now that LH has announced service, but it is still listed as returning next year. DE typically drops flying from non-Star Alliance hub markets when LH begins service there. No point in competing for the same pool of traffic headed to FRA. I do wonder if DE will announce a new market to replace AUS when the route is officially discontinued.

flyPIT wrote:

Unfortunately Condor's current schedule for next summer appears to look less and less like only a placeholder, and more set in stone as time goes on. The ACAA route map confirms the date Condor resumes next summer, which is only for a very short season like the first year.

I too feel that Condor is the most vulnerable, but also the most important to keep around. Their fares and service levels are a great mid-range between that of BA and WW. I've also noticed that fares, even 1-2 weeks out to FRA were in the same neighborhood as as they were 1-2 months out when I booked (~$800-$900 RT). I suspect that DL's up-gauging and fare matching didn't help DE. This past summer, I found DL (via CDG) to be the cheapest to FRA, followed by WW, and then DE.

I’ve always wondered about the passengers on the return legs from CDG, KEF,
FRA, etc. Are they Western PA natives returning home from their trip or how many are residents of the CDG, KEF, FRA areas are visiting PIT or connecting to another flight?

Runway28L wrote:

CaptainMidnight wrote:

I’ve always wondered about the passengers on the return legs from CDG, KEF,
FRA, etc. Are they Western PA natives returning home from their trip or how many are residents of the CDG, KEF, FRA areas are visiting PIT or connecting to another flight?

The majority of passengers that I’ve seen on the inbound flights from CDG and KEF were Pittsburgh-area residents. Although for the CDG flight, there were usually between 20-50 people in the non-US citizens line with another 10-20 going through the main line with visas or green cards.

KEF typically has less international passengers but it’s sometimes pretty close to the amount that CDG had. The flight also has a very high amount of traffic from Western PA.

That makes sense for the DL CDG flight figuring there were other DL fights to connect on..... Lol

According to the most recent OAG thread, WN is bumping ATL-PIT up from 2x to 3x daily in May next year. Google Flights is showing a start date of Apr 8th, however.

JamesRenard wrote:

According to the most recent OAG thread, WN is bumping ATL-PIT up from 2x to 3x daily in May next year. Google Flights is showing a start date of Apr 8th, however.

The previous WN schedule extension only reflected a partial April schedule in that subsequent OAG thread; same thing with the current extension, which skewed the June figures in this week's OAG thread.

Runway28L wrote:

The majority of passengers that I’ve seen on the inbound flights from CDG and KEF were Pittsburgh-area residents. Although for the CDG flight, there were usually between 20-50 people in the non-US citizens line...

My observations were similar, with the addition that a few people I sat near said they came from Ohio to get the non-stop flights.

I didn't get the sense that anyone was connecting, and the line to enter the secure area was non-existent.

Takeoffs don't often come over my house in Beaver Falls, let alone an A340 presumably containing African royalty. And yet this just happened....

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N3DCSDF

Friarboy wrote:

Takeoffs don't often come over my house in Beaver Falls, let alone an A340 presumably containing African royalty. And yet this just happened....

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N3DCSDF

I think this is a testing flight for new nonstop service from Pittsburgh to Swaziland. I heard there is huge demand from PIT. 3-5x weekly. =) haha. Just teasing.

But seriously, super cool find Friarboy. Thanks for sharing. Anyone have photos?

Interesting routing of that A340. SHO-JFK-MIA-PIT-SHO, per that link Friarboy posted. I am curious about that routing. I wonder what it was in regards to.

Last month the Dept. of Commerce released Gross Domestic Product by Metropolitan Area for 2017. Pittsburgh ranked very well compared to its peer cities:

STL $161 billion, ranked 22nd
PIT $147 billion, ranked 25th
IND $144 billion, ranked 27th
CLE $139 billion, ranked 28th
CVG $138 billion ranked 29th
CMH $136 billion, ranked 30th

But where Pittsburgh really shined was percentage growth in 2017:

PIT 3.7%, ranked 45
CLE 2.9%, ranked 84
IND 2.5%, ranked 116
CVG 2.4%, ranked 124
CMH 2.1% ranked 150
STL 0.5%, ranked 287

In fact, Pittsburgh is the only large metro in the entire Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Midwest to be entirely shaded dark blue on the map included in the link.

https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-metropolitan-area

So this trend bodes well for continued air service growth and I think these numbers will just get stronger for Pittsburgh as the energy industry bounces back. This, as well as things such as gaining our 9th Fortune 500 headquarters next year when GE Transportation merges with Wabtec and continued positive news in Pittsburgh's tech sector such as Facebook increasing their local presence 6 fold and adding hundreds of jobs should be good selling points going forward. I really think it's things like this and long term growth prospects that draw airlines like British Airways much more so than a moderate two year incentive.

It's astonishing how many people will be in that Facebook office. Never thought it would be up there with Google and Uber in scale.

flyPIT wrote:

Last month the Dept. of Commerce released Gross Domestic Product by Metropolitan Area for 2017. Pittsburgh ranked very well compared to its peer cities:

STL $161 billion, ranked 22nd
PIT $147 billion, ranked 25th
IND $144 billion, ranked 27th
CLE $139 billion, ranked 28th
CVG $138 billion ranked 29th
CMH $136 billion, ranked 30th

But where Pittsburgh really shined was percentage growth in 2017:

PIT 3.7%, ranked 45
CLE 2.9%, ranked 84
IND 2.5%, ranked 116
CVG 2.4%, ranked 124
CMH 2.1% ranked 150
STL 0.5%, ranked 287

In fact, Pittsburgh is the only large metro in the entire Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Midwest to be entirely shaded dark blue on the map included in the link.

https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gdp-metropolitan-area

So this trend bodes well for continued air service growth and I think these numbers will just get stronger for Pittsburgh as the energy industry bounces back. This, as well as things such as gaining our 9th Fortune 500 headquarters next year when GE Transportation merges with Wabtec and continued positive news in Pittsburgh's tech sector such as Facebook increasing their local presence 6 fold and adding hundreds of jobs should be good selling points going forward. I really think it's things like this and long term growth prospects that draw airlines like British Airways much more so than a moderate two year incentive.

I don't remember hearing about GE Transportation merging with Wabtec and having the headquarters in the Burgh. Where was this stated? If it's anything in the Business Times, that could be why I didn't know about it...

EDIT: Wait, yes I do remember hearing that. I guess I forgot or just didn't realize that meant moving the headquarters to Wilmerding. Pretty cool, especially considering they're moving the spun-off component of GE out of Chicago. Considering it looks like GE Transportation has plants in Erie (for now) and Grove City, I guess that would make logistical sense to move the HQ closer to those locations. Although I'm not sure where Wabtec has their facilities.

In any event, this excites me as well regarding future air travel options for Pittsburgh. I'm thinking and hoping British Airways will be a success and that WOW and Condor can hang around.

Wabtec is the surviving company and already headquartered in Pittsburgh (Wilmerding). No headquarters are being “moved” to Wilmerding.

flyPIT wrote:

Wabtec is the surviving company and already headquartered in Pittsburgh (Wilmerding). No headquarters are being “moved” to Wilmerding.

Are they shifting any of the Chicago employees to the existing office, though?

All I know is the merger will make Wabtec a F500 company.

Runway28L wrote:

So DE has updated FRA-MSY for 2019 and it will be returning at 2x weekly. Yet FRA-PIT is still showing 2x weekly starting 6/28/19. I think it's safe to say that will be the frequency we'll be stuck with for next summer.

A bit of a shame, but I can definitely see why. DL increasing capacity, being daily, and fare-matching all at once likely depressed yields and made the 3x weekly frequency perform under expectations. Things probably won't get better when BA enters with their 235-seat B788 (although BA will only have 2 more weekly flights and will not operate on Mondays, whereas DE however will).

Regarding DL price matching, that may be true but it was DE setting the fares so low.

DE also reduced AUS back to 2x weekly, before the LH/AUS announcement. Now with LH adding AUS it appears DE is pulling out altogether.

Of note BA does not serve LHR-CGN (home of Bayer, Lanxess, and Covestro - all having their N. America HQ in PIT) so that is a plus for DE. This, and newly found aircraft availability does provide some opportunity for DE.

I would really like to see Condor keep up with the heavier marketing they've been doing. I think they got a bit drowned out in the WW hype initially, but I've noticed that a lot of folks in my circles are finally aware of the good product Condor offers, and they're starting to use Condor instead. Hopefully that is more than an a personal anecdote and keeps happening.

Here's hoping they have a stronger year next year and it gives them some confidence.

flyPIT wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

So DE has updated FRA-MSY for 2019 and it will be returning at 2x weekly. Yet FRA-PIT is still showing 2x weekly starting 6/28/19. I think it's safe to say that will be the frequency we'll be stuck with for next summer.

A bit of a shame, but I can definitely see why. DL increasing capacity, being daily, and fare-matching all at once likely depressed yields and made the 3x weekly frequency perform under expectations. Things probably won't get better when BA enters with their 235-seat B788 (although BA will only have 2 more weekly flights and will not operate on Mondays, whereas DE however will).

Regarding DL price matching, that may be true but it was DE setting the fares so low.

DE also reduced AUS back to 2x weekly, before the LH/AUS announcement. Now with LH adding AUS it appears DE is pulling out altogether.

Of note BA does not serve LHR-CGN (home of Bayer, Lanxess, and Covestro - all having their N. America HQ in PIT) so that is a plus for DE. This, and newly found aircraft availability does provide some opportunity for DE.

Bayer's NA headquarters are in NJ according to their website.

Jshank83 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Runway28L wrote:

So DE has updated FRA-MSY for 2019 and it will be returning at 2x weekly. Yet FRA-PIT is still showing 2x weekly starting 6/28/19. I think it's safe to say that will be the frequency we'll be stuck with for next summer.

A bit of a shame, but I can definitely see why. DL increasing capacity, being daily, and fare-matching all at once likely depressed yields and made the 3x weekly frequency perform under expectations. Things probably won't get better when BA enters with their 235-seat B788 (although BA will only have 2 more weekly flights and will not operate on Mondays, whereas DE however will).

Regarding DL price matching, that may be true but it was DE setting the fares so low.

DE also reduced AUS back to 2x weekly, before the LH/AUS announcement. Now with LH adding AUS it appears DE is pulling out altogether.

Of note BA does not serve LHR-CGN (home of Bayer, Lanxess, and Covestro - all having their N. America HQ in PIT) so that is a plus for DE. This, and newly found aircraft availability does provide some opportunity for DE.

Bayer's NA headquarters are in NJ according to their website.

With the splits, the new Bayer, a drug company, will be headquartered in NJ, where their drug operations have been for years (and the competition). German law requires at least a two-year period for th company to remain as is (N.A. HQ in Pittsburgh) until the splits are successful. If the splits aren't successful, they are required to buy them back. The new companies are doing fine. NJ is healthcare central now. One of the reasons why GSK left Pittsburgh for NJ was GSK buying Novartis' OTC business. They want to consolidate into on location.......in expensive, congested, over-crowded NJ. It's actually an excuse for the employees to jump from one company to another. Way too much inbreeding in the healthcare sector. Sorry, went on a tangent.

AaronPGH wrote:

I would really like to see Condor keep up with the heavier marketing they've been doing. I think they got a bit drowned out in the WW hype initially, but I've noticed that a lot of folks in my circles are finally aware of the good product Condor offers, and they're starting to use Condor instead. Hopefully that is more than an a personal anecdote and keeps happening.

Here's hoping they have a stronger year next year and it gives them some confidence.

Condor (and WW) really need to up their ground handling game. I always fly (flew) DL to CDG when heading to Europe. I know three people who have flown the Condor flight and it was never fun. Two had many hour delays. The other had Condor lose their luggage (both pieces) for their entire two week honeymoon...and they only flew PIT-FRA with no connections! Luckily their luggage was waiting at the airport for them when they came back...I still don't know why they couldn't send the pieces to Europe.

Runway28L wrote:

But since Trego somehow keeps winning the contracts for all of the new airlines, I don’t see anything happening anytime soon.

I wonder if this is all about money in the end. Are they the cheapest? Related note, I looked out of the window of my AS flight and guess who the baggage handlers were? Trego. While we didn’t depart late, we did sit for 10 mins after boarding was completed. Though that could be for other reasons. Their quite a far cry from Alaska’s 20 minute baggage guarantee. I wonder if that applies in places like PIT, or just their hubs?

If nothing else, I wish DE would start earlier than 6/28. I’d like to support them, but it becomes more and more difficult with a shorter window.

Yes, they are the cheapest, but there are other things to consider. FWIW, not only does Trego underdeliver, they also overpromise. I heard they guaranteed all kinds of things to NK and the like to get those contracts. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see them getting the BA contract, too.

Runway28L wrote:

If nothing else, I wish DE would start earlier than 6/28. I’d like to support them, but it becomes more and more difficult with a shorter window.

I agree. I'd like to take advantage of Condor, but our travel needs to Europe tend to occur before 6/28 and after the service end for the season...

I don't get why they have such a small window of service. Surely those corporate clients need year round service to Germany and beyond?

I am disappointed in our landing BA and losing DL. While I can freely travel to anywhere in Europe and the UK, I have many friends with Schengen visas that enjoyed the flight to CDG, because they could hop off in Europe or spend a day or two in Paris before continuing onward. Since the UK isn't part of the Schengen agreement, that kinda ruins things for them from a stopping standpoint. I know they can transit without a problem, but it just sucks they can't visit the UK without a visa.

Cush wrote:

I am disappointed in our landing BA and losing DL.

BA is such a bigger gain for PIT than DL to CDG. Year round service, potential to add frequency and upgauge equipment, more prestigious airline, and most importantly it's to London.

Runway28L wrote:

One thing to consider with DE is that most of the cities comparable to PIT top out at 3x weekly. There aren’t any cities with frequencies higher than that.

-PHX was 2x weekly this year, will be going 3x weekly in 2019
-MSY returns as 2x weekly
-PIT was 3x weekly for a portion of 2018, but will be 2x weekly for all of 2019
-AUS appears to be going down to 2x weekly in 2019 (that’s if the want to challenge LH)

Even the bigger cities such as LAS, YYZ, and JFK are not even daily. Each are 5x weekly.

.......Daily or year-round service is obviously way out of the question......

AUS is gone, PHX is showing 1x weekly but BWI and PDX are strong at 4x weekly.

PIT would never be daily but I don't see why it couldn't be year-round or close to year-round just because some of these other cities aren't. PDX is a great example, IIRC it is seasonal but a very long one.

flyPIT wrote:

BA is such a bigger gain for PIT than DL to CDG. Year round service, potential to add frequency and upgauge equipment...

But couldn’t DL have made those changes too? Not that it was likely, but it was at least possible. I see the main benefit with LHR over CDG was that London is a bigger destination for PIT.

While 3x weekly on DE would be great, I’d be happy to see 2x weekly for a much longer season!

IND and RDU, specifically, have significant DL FF bases to work with. Although DL has grown significantly here, it is not a focus city for DL. Big reason why RDUCDG and INDCDG are year-round. DL doesn't even have a SkyClub here.

PITexpress wrote:

But couldn’t DL have made those changes too? Not that it was likely, but it was at least possible.

They could have gone year round, but didn't for 8 years after the post-subsidy period. Contrast that to BA who does not do seasonal N. America routes.

USPIT10L wrote:

IND and RDU, specifically, have significant DL FF bases to work with. Although DL has grown significantly here, it is not a focus city for DL. Big reason why RDUCDG and INDCDG are year-round. DL doesn't even have a SkyClub here.

IND isn't a focus city either; it's year round because it is under subsidy. Lets wait a couple years to see what happens there.

flyPIT wrote:

AUS is gone, PHX is showing 1x weekly but BWI and PDX are strong at 4x weekly.

PIT would never be daily but I don't see why it couldn't be year-round or close to year-round just because some of these other cities aren't. PDX is a great example, IIRC it is seasonal but a very long one.

......and..PDX is now starting in June as well albeit with a good 4x weekly showing. At least it is a host of cities and not just PIT seeing the DE cutbacks.

Condor extended PIT!!!

Late May to mid-Sept flights are now loaded. Still 2x weekly but I'll take it!

Does anyone know if Qatar cargo is going stay? I saw that for the first flew from liege to Pittsburgh then to Chicago this morning

Gsasala wrote:

Does anyone know if Qatar cargo is going stay? I saw that for the first flew from liege to Pittsburgh then to Chicago this morning

They are indeed staying.

USPIT10L wrote:

Big reason why RDUCDG and INDCDG are year-round. DL doesn't even have a SkyClub here.

Was there talk back after the Paris flight started of DL opening a SkyClub in PIT? I vaguely seem to recall that they were considering it but were put off the cost.

flyPIT wrote:

Condor extended PIT!!!

Late May to mid-Sept flights are now loaded. Still 2x weekly but I'll take it!

Awesome news, just as we were fretting over their seemingly short season.

DL was supposed to open a Crown Room in early 1993, just before gate D76, but shelved the idea due to excessive costs.

Gsasala wrote:

Does anyone know if Qatar cargo is going stay? I saw that for the first flew from liege to Pittsburgh then to Chicago this morning

As long as the airport is paying QR, they will keep operating.

Pittsburgh is featured in BA's High Life Magazine this month.

pgh234 wrote:

Condor (and WW) really need to up their ground handling game. I always fly (flew) DL to CDG when heading to Europe. I know three people who have flown the Condor flight and it was never fun. Two had many hour delays. The other had Condor lose their luggage (both pieces) for their entire two week honeymoon...and they only flew PIT-FRA with no connections! Luckily their luggage was waiting at the airport for them when they came back...I still don't know why they couldn't send the pieces to Europe.

Indeed. I made it real clear on my Condor feedback questionnaire last time I flew them, that the flight was great but the ground handling at the PIT end was worse then dire.

For a bit of good news, last night's WW flight had the belt running without too much delay; I didn't look at the clock but my sense was maybe 10-15 minutes? Maybe there wasn't anything on TV worth watching, so they decided to work instead? I'm afraid to hope that WW had a come-to-Jesus with T-D and got a result.

Runway28L wrote:

Not a whole lot to highlight in OAG, but UA will be going 3x daily on PIT-DEN starting next June.

UA’s second daily PIT-SFO flight will also return in June.

UA seems to be more invested in PIT compared to AA and DL (SLC add notwithstanding), between the third daily from DEN, the one-off to LAS and upgaguing EWR and IAD (and, IINM, IAH) to mainline. I was surprised to see the third daily DEN-PIT r/t, which appears to coincide with the retiming of the banks at DEN.

So looks like B6 is giving PIT-FLL the axe. I guess NK won that battle. But I hate it that they didn't even put a E190 on it before pulling the plug.

flyPIT wrote:

So looks like B6 is giving PIT-FLL the axe. I guess NK won that battle. But I hate it that they didn't even put a E190 on it before pulling the plug.

That is a blow. Overall bad day for a number of B6 cities.