Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:49 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Took Alaska to SEA last week and it was a pretty full flight. First time flying Alaska and it was quite nice. Any thoughts on if they might eventually expand from PIT? I doubt SFO would work, but how about a summer seasonal flight to PDX?


My hope is that the SEA route works out well. Excited to see what those LF's look like over the Winter and throughout 2019. I agree with you...PDX Seasonal would be my best guess. I don't see AS wanting to be aggressive and going up against UA at SFO. Best guess though...we don't see anything additional from them until 2020.
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:10 pm

I just noticed the September #'s are out. Why the -12.8% Drop in International? Did something end earlier this year?

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattachm ... lang=en-US
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:16 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
I just noticed the September #'s are out. Why the -12.8% Drop in International? Did something end earlier this year?

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattachm ... lang=en-US

The CDG flight ended much earlier than it did in previous years. It ended on Sept 3 rather than mid-October which was when it usually stopped operating. That’s likely the cause of that big decline there.
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:23 am

Runway28L wrote:
Clipper2Heavy wrote:
I just noticed the September #'s are out. Why the -12.8% Drop in International? Did something end earlier this year?

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/getattachm ... lang=en-US

The CDG flight ended much earlier than it did in previous years. It ended on Sept 3 rather than mid-October which was when it usually stopped operating. That’s likely the cause of that big decline there.


Thanks! That is what I figured...you saved me the legwork of going back and looking at schedules! The #'s make sense it was somewhere around 3500 passengers for Sept. Next year...by this time...with BA starting in April...the international #'s should look quite different...but that also depends on WW still being here :)
 
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:32 pm

Boutique Air flies the Swiss airplane Pilatus PC-12. Great new sight over our skies. Excellent airplane. The U.S. Air Force flies the PC-12.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:02 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
My hope is that the SEA route works out well. Excited to see what those LF's look like over the Winter and throughout 2019. I agree with you...PDX Seasonal would be my best guess.


I got the sense that many of the pax on the PIT-SEA flight booked from the SEA end which was cool to see, especially since we don’t seem to get that from the high profile European flights. This just unofficially based on a few conversations I overheard, the fair amount of Seahawks colors, and my seat neighbor, heading home to PDX.
 
Cush
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:40 pm

I am very worried about the future state of our international flights.... I can easily see Wow going under (or canceling most US destinations) soon, which would leave us with nothing at the moment. If Condor decides to drop us as well, then we are back in the same boat we were in before (1 flight)...

I have no problems with the subsidies given to obtain these routes, and if the route does fail, I hope it doesn't jeopardize them being allowed to continue doing that in the future.

My dream is Lufthansa nonstop to Frankfurt year round...

I wish more people would take advantage of the non-stop flights that we have. Pittsburgh isn't a city that can flex their muscles and maintain routes that are under performing. We are very much a use it or lose it city.

What do you guys see as being the next additions / cancellations?
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:14 pm

Cush wrote:
I am very worried about the future state of our international flights... I can easily see Wow going under (or canceling most US destinations) soon, which would leave us with nothing at the moment. If Condor decides to drop us as well, then we are back in the same boat we were in before (1 flight)...

I have no problems with the subsidies given to obtain these routes, and if the route does fail, I hope it doesn't jeopardize them being allowed to continue doing that in the future.

My dream is Lufthansa nonstop to Frankfurt year round...

I wish more people would take advantage of the non-stop flights that we have. Pittsburgh isn't a city that can flex their muscles and maintain routes that are underperforming. We are very much a use it or lose it city.

What do you guys see as being the next additions / cancellations?

I think BA will be fine. WW like you said will be a wild card. Condor should be fine now with less competition although it may be dropped for an opportunistic add in a city that WW dropped with little to no TATL like CLE/STL, but that is unlikely since they have a spare from AUS now.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:19 pm

stl07 wrote:
Cush wrote:
I am very worried about the future state of our international flights... I can easily see Wow going under (or canceling most US destinations) soon, which would leave us with nothing at the moment. If Condor decides to drop us as well, then we are back in the same boat we were in before (1 flight)...

I have no problems with the subsidies given to obtain these routes, and if the route does fail, I hope it doesn't jeopardize them being allowed to continue doing that in the future.

My dream is Lufthansa nonstop to Frankfurt year round...

I wish more people would take advantage of the non-stop flights that we have. Pittsburgh isn't a city that can flex their muscles and maintain routes that are underperforming. We are very much a use it or lose it city.

What do you guys see as being the next additions / cancellations?

I think BA will be fine. WW like you said will be a wild card. Condor should be fine now with less competition although it may be dropped for an opportunistic add in a city that WW dropped with little to no TATL like CLE/STL, but that is unlikely since they have a spare from AUS now.


WW is what it is...if it lasts...great. The Financial sitch...that is the concern. I have few worries about DE. BA I think will be a strong performer (being super optimistic). Even if we were to lose DE and WW...I don't see LH coming to PIT.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:52 pm

Cush wrote:
I am very worried about the future state of our international flights.... I can easily see Wow going under (or canceling most US destinations) soon, which would leave us with nothing at the moment. If Condor decides to drop us as well, then we are back in the same boat we were in before (1 flight)...

I have no problems with the subsidies given to obtain these routes, and if the route does fail, I hope it doesn't jeopardize them being allowed to continue doing that in the future.

My dream is Lufthansa nonstop to Frankfurt year round...

I wish more people would take advantage of the non-stop flights that we have. Pittsburgh isn't a city that can flex their muscles and maintain routes that are under performing. We are very much a use it or lose it city.

What do you guys see as being the next additions / cancellations?

I wouldn’t be too worried about PIT’s international flights. Pittsburgh is still vey lucky to have the transatlantic service it has. There are airports comparable to PIT that only have a single flight or even zero flights to Europe.

BA will be fine. There’s just so many aspects that should make the flight viable such as O&D traffic, connecting traffic, the JV with AA, and businesses in Pittsburgh. Regarding DE: 2019 will be the first year they will operate subsidy-free and they are still returning with a schedule comparable to last year outside of the very short-lived Wednesday flight. The fact that their subsidy is up and that they are still returning next year is very telling of what they think of the route’s performace.

So far, there is ZERO indication of WW cutting PIT, despite what many armchair CEO A.netters want to believe. If they hang in there, then obviously everything stays status quo. If they do somehow go under, then it’s not the end of the world.

Hypothetically, if WW were to somehow go bust, then there would at least be room for EI to DUB if they are supposedly still interested. While I do think an out-of-control game of musical chairs with transatlantic airlines is a terrible idea long-term, DUB would be a better fit than KEF due to the ties Pittsburgh has with Ireland.

LH at PIT makes very little sense outside of daily service. They just don’t have the right aircraft with the right configuration. The A333s are too premium heavy and the A343s have too many Economy Class seats. LH would only make sense if either they had B787s or if US somehow still existed today.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:50 pm

Cush wrote:
I am very worried about the future state of our international flights.... I can easily see Wow going under (or canceling most US destinations) soon, which would leave us with nothing at the moment. If Condor decides to drop us as well, then we are back in the same boat we were in before (1 flight)...


I understand your concern, but I’m not too worried. WW, assuming that it survives, seems to support the PIT flight. And with CLE being cancelled, that may bring some Ohioans back. It is also interesting that their only A320neo frequently makes the PIT-KEF run.

I think BA will be fine, certainly for the next two years, but it sounds like that flight has so much going for it that it should stick around no problem. (If CHS can get BA, we should be good)

DE, is the intriguing one. While it’s harder to fill planes when you’re non-alliance and only 2x weekly, I think they have demonstrated success in PIT. There are also a lot of companies with ties to Germany. For me personally, I see them as my best option to Europe. Their fares and service levels are a nice middle ground in between WW and BA. DL certainly didn’t help DE with their fare matching and daily schedule. With them gone, I think that will help DE. Not sure if BA would price match. Somehow I doubt it.
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:59 pm

Cush wrote:
I am very worried about the future state of our international flights.... I can easily see Wow going under (or canceling most US destinations) soon, which would leave us with nothing at the moment. If Condor decides to drop us as well, then we are back in the same boat we were in before (1 flight)...

I have no problems with the subsidies given to obtain these routes, and if the route does fail, I hope it doesn't jeopardize them being allowed to continue doing that in the future.

My dream is Lufthansa nonstop to Frankfurt year round...

I wish more people would take advantage of the non-stop flights that we have. Pittsburgh isn't a city that can flex their muscles and maintain routes that are under performing. We are very much a use it or lose it city.

What do you guys see as being the next additions / cancellations?


I think the major issue with Pitt International flights is ..... how badly do those airlines want to fly out of that airport? Pitt gives some of those airlines some REALLY nice incentives that other airports like Cleveland, St Louis, and other airports arent willing to shell out.

Hey, I could be wrong.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:27 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
I think the major issue with Pitt International flights is ..... how badly do those airlines want to fly out of that airport? Pitt gives some of those airlines some REALLY nice incentives that other airports like Cleveland, St Louis, and other airports arent willing to shell out.


I think you’re right. The airlines weren’t lining up at the door to fly out of PIT, it wasn’t necessarily on their radar...at first. Which is why the subsidies exist, to lessen the financial risk for the airlines. Is it a good idea? Only time will tell. As you said, without them, there are no flights. With them, PIT has a real chance to attract (and keep) these flights. Not to mention bring a whole host of intangible benefits to the city.
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:28 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
I think the major issue with Pitt International flights is ..... how badly do those airlines want to fly out of that airport? Pitt gives some of those airlines some REALLY nice incentives that other airports like Cleveland, St Louis, and other airports arent willing to shell out.


I think you’re right. The airlines weren’t lining up at the door to fly out of PIT, it wasn’t necessarily on their radar...at first. Which is why the subsidies exist, to lessen the financial risk for the airlines. Is it a good idea? Only time will tell. As you said, without them, there are no flights. With them, PIT has a real chance to attract (and keep) these flights. Not to mention bring a whole host of intangible benefits to the city.



yeah and if you think of it ....... lets say the incentives are 1 million to 2 million bucks a year for an airline. In the aviation world, that is not much money. I am sure that the City of Pittsburgh and the airport benefit more than the incentives worth that they pay each year. Its a good investment.
 
Cush
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:34 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

yeah and if you think of it ....... lets say the incentives are 1 million to 2 million bucks a year for an airline. In the aviation world, that is not much money. I am sure that the City of Pittsburgh and the airport benefit more than the incentives worth that they pay each year. Its a good investment.


It is a really good investment! Low risk and potential high reward. However, our crappy liberal minded newspapers (PG + Trib) love to make scandals so they can pickup a few additional readers.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:06 pm

The Trib is far from liberal. They are delusional. The publication has an issue with the ACAA. They hate it when tax money is used by government agencies and there is success. The P-G has been hijacked by a reicht-wing, spoiled rich heir. Delta flew for nine years with only the first year needing incentives. Incentives work if there is a market and good communication/cooperation amongst all parties involved. We have an international market. BA should be very successful, as long as their management doesn't chase the next shiny object. There will be bumps in the road, especially battling nearby hubs.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:49 pm

The PG is a complete laughing stock. It reached the point where I terminated my subscription back in July. They have been calling me every day since then advertising for a heavily discounted subscription. No thanks.

Seems like people are finally realizing how bad the PG has become, which is why they are now writing completely sensationalist articles to try and gain clicks and subs. I’m sure everyone has seen the aggressive ad campaign they have been running on television over the past few weeks.
 
JamesRenard
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:09 pm

Welp, F9's page says that PIT-SAN is now seasonal. Both it and PIT-MCO are stopping service on Jan 4th.

Conversely, DEN and PBI are available up until the end of the booking window (currently Apr 29th).
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:10 pm

It’s amazing how much cities will spend to attract international service.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Gsasala
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:03 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
Welp, F9's page says that PIT-SAN is now seasonal. Both it and PIT-MCO are stopping service on Jan 4th.

Conversely, DEN and PBI are available up until the end of the booking window (currently Apr 29th).

It doesn't seem like F9 is doing all that well at PIT compared to say CLE. Which is a shame because that are pretty good airline. They are one of the few Airlines that fly the A321 to PIT.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:10 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
Welp, F9's page says that PIT-SAN is now seasonal. Both it and PIT-MCO are stopping service on Jan 4th.

Conversely, DEN and PBI are available up until the end of the booking window (currently Apr 29th).


To the surprise of very few PIT observers. I would think that winter travel from PIT to SAN would be a better time period for F9, but then again, what do I know?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:56 am

Recent interview with WOW founder and CEO. Sort of explains midwest pullout. New US destination coming this month. Expanding service to some existing US cities.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 684201002/
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:57 pm

Gsasala wrote:
JamesRenard wrote:
Welp, F9's page says that PIT-SAN is now seasonal. Both it and PIT-MCO are stopping service on Jan 4th.

Conversely, DEN and PBI are available up until the end of the booking window (currently Apr 29th).

It doesn't seem like F9 is doing all that well at PIT compared to say CLE. Which is a shame because that are pretty good airline. They are one of the few Airlines that fly the A321 to PIT.


There's a surprise we all saw coming... I guess there goes my plan for a SAN weekend in Feb. Oh well. But agreed, it's too bad F9 doesn't fare better here. They at least seem open to longer distance routes and their prices are great. (I found SAN for $97 r/t, even with the fees, that's amazing) I snagged a $60 fare each way to LAS when it was operating. I still think they'd be great to NYC, PHL, or TTN.

Unfortunately it seems like a lot of the leisure traffic from PIT only travels to Florida or Myrtle Beach, despite F9 and G4's attempts.
 
User avatar
dabpit
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 10:19 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:21 pm

Don't forget that NK flies to MCO daily from PIT so F9 is losing traffic to NK on that route. As for SAN I'm not surprised it has been dropped to seasonal. I was hopeful that F9 would do well in PIT but things just don't seem to be working out. On the other hand NK seems to be doing well.
Carpe Diem
 
Cush
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:57 pm

dabpit wrote:
Don't forget that NK flies to MCO daily from PIT so F9 is losing traffic to NK on that route. As for SAN I'm not surprised it has been dropped to seasonal. I was hopeful that F9 would do well in PIT but things just don't seem to be working out. On the other hand NK seems to be doing well.


I agree. Spirit seems to be a lot more well known amongst people than Frontier in the PIT market. Just an example. My group of friends (non aviation fans), tend to fly 2-4 times per year for leisure/vacation. Out of our entire group, everyone has heard/flown Spirit, yet only 1 person had heard/flown on Frontier.

A number of other people I spoke with recently also responded with "Who is Frontier and where do they go"... So, I put the blame on poor Frontier performance from their lack of marketing and brand awareness.

Another thing (aside from the marketing) is that Spirit has been in the PIT market for a number of years (having begun flights from Latrobe before adding capacity at PIT). So, in short, MANY people took advantage of these cheap flights out of LBE long before you could just travel to PIT for.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:15 pm

How do you build brand recognition when you add and drop routes faster than people can learn about them?
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:24 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
How do you build brand recognition when you add and drop routes faster than people can learn about them?


And therein lies F9's main Problem. They do not have the mentality of Build it and they will come...more so...Build it and they better be there immediately or we are leaving.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1202
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:58 pm

Right, and even worse, if they don't fly the route every day, it's really hard to tell on booking engines that they even fly a route. Maybe I'm booking PIT-SAN but able to be flexible on my days of travel. On the standard booking engines like Orbitz,I would have no idea F9 even flies the route nonstop if I don't happen to pick the days they fly on. More reason that one would think F9s strategy requires some patience. I don't see them advertise much. . . .
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:55 pm

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
And therein lies F9's main Problem. They do not have the mentality of Build it and they will come...more so...Build it and they better be there immediately or we are leaving.


Very true, it's hard to grow awareness when your flight schedule changes so frequently. And I agree w Cush, people were aware of NK for years because they were in Latrobe and they made a big splash with their prices. F9 didn't have that. I too have found that a lot of people have never heard of F9. If F9 even had one really strong performer, they could build awareness around that flight, but that hasn't happened. Plus why we had a 321 instead of a 319 is still baffling. I hesitate to ask what the LF's were on their SAN flight.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:25 pm

One thing to note as well, DEN has been downgraded to the A320 on most days so far this past month. PBI was also originally loaded as an A320 but is now showing an A319 instead.

F9 has failed on nearly everything from PIT. They failed on MKE many years ago and they failed on ORD, ATL, and LAS more recently. I too agree that a severe lack of marketing along with their terrible schedules is what’s hurting them. I have yet to see a single ad here by F9 themselves or the ACAA. I don’t remeber the SAN flight being advertised at all before it launched. And so far for the PBI flights... again, zero advertising. I just don’t see that route surviving a full year to be quite honest, even though it really should.

NK on the other hand is getting a lot of advertising support from the ACAA. I keep hearing their low fares being advertised for flights to MYR, LAS, and LAX all the time. Building brand recognition through LBE and being daily to almost every destination they serve from PIT has given NK an advantage with budget travelers.
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:19 pm

Hypothesizing for a moment...what are the thoughts of a future AS SAN-PIT flight? My thoughts being, if the SEA flight does well and they want to increase their presence to PIT then SAN would be the best bet. It beats out PDX as I assume that is a small amount of PDEW. It beats SFO because I don't think AS wants to go up against UA.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:00 am

Did anyone really think F9 was gonna serve PIT-SAN year round with an A321? Lots of hating on F9 on here about this, yet I didn't read anything about WN, DL, AA, NK, or UA ever displaying any interest whatsoever in operating the route.
FLYi
 
Clipper2Heavy
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:20 am

flyPIT wrote:
Did anyone really think F9 was gonna serve PIT-SAN year round with an A321? Lots of hating on F9 on here about this, yet I didn't read anything about WN, DL, AA, NK, or UA ever displaying any interest whatsoever in operating the route.


Maybe...not so much hating on them as being frustrated. I for one am happy with the attempts they have made at PIT. I just think it was with a 'half-effort.' But that seems to be their corporate mantra. It will work in some places, but not everywhere I guess.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:25 am

Yeah, really not hating on F9, I’m glad they’re here and trying what they’re trying. I’m frustrated that it’s not more successful. Look at what they launched at CLE,TTN, heck even MDT has 3 destinations.

I guess for SAN, the question is, could it support daily flights? I’m still hoping for seasonal PDX, but I’m not holding my breath.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2772
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:06 am

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
Hypothesizing for a moment...what are the thoughts of a future AS SAN-PIT flight? My thoughts being, if the SEA flight does well and they want to increase their presence to PIT then SAN would be the best bet. It beats out PDX as I assume that is a small amount of PDEW. It beats SFO because I don't think AS wants to go up against UA.


I think that WN would probably add PIT-SAN nonstop service in response to AS adding PIT-SAN nonstop service since WN has been recently expanding at SAN in order to defend market share in the SAN market.
 
Cush
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:14 am

I am glad I got some folks to agree with me about the lack of marketing from Frontier on their flights. It's one thing if you are a legacy carrier offering the flight on a daily basis (lots of feeder traffic), but being a stand alone carrier like Frontier, your name should be out there all the time. Radio, television, print, etc....

I can tell you (because of ads) a majority of the destinations that Spirit flies to from pit, but Frontier, aside from Denver, I have no idea...

This is similar to a business I ran with some friends about 2-3 years ago. It was a mobile iPhone game and so fun/addicting to play with friends. People raved about the app, but, we sunk so much money into development, we had no marketing budget. We figured "word of mouth is free and will spread the word", but alas, word of mouth is a slow process, and once the money ran out, so did the business... That's what I see happening with Frontier. Good product. Great prices. But too dependent on people spreading the word about them or finding Frontier on their own.

I really hope Frontier can get their act together and promote their routes more!
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:22 am

Clipper2Heavy wrote:
Hypothesizing for a moment...what are the thoughts of a future AS SAN-PIT flight? My thoughts being, if the SEA flight does well and they want to increase their presence to PIT then SAN would be the best bet. It beats out PDX as I assume that is a small amount of PDEW. It beats SFO because I don't think AS wants to go up against UA.


jplatts wrote:
I think that WN would probably add PIT-SAN nonstop service in response to AS adding PIT-SAN nonstop service since WN has been recently expanding at SAN in order to defend market share in the SAN market.

SAN would be my first guess as to where AS could go other than SEA. WN is still probably be the best carrier to serve PIT-SAN. But given how complicit they've become at PIT which has been noted so many times, I just don't know if that would ever happen in the near future.

I would say either double daily SEA or a new destination (SAN) would be Alaska's next move. But it all depends on how SEA does in the winter and beyond. The flight is already alternating between the B738 and B739. Seems like they are starting to right-size capacity a bit.

PITexpress wrote:
I guess for SAN, the question is, could it support daily flights? I’m still hoping for seasonal PDX, but I’m not holding my breath.

I'dd add: What is the average amount of passengers that travel between Pittsburgh and San Diego on a daily basis? What about between Pittsburgh and Portland?

I think I remember it being shown on here a long time ago but I don't remember what the exact data was. IIRC PIT-SAN had numbers that could probably support daily service, but I think PIT-PDX was a bit too low for a nonstop.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4151
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:18 am

Runway28L wrote:
Clipper2Heavy wrote:
Hypothesizing for a moment...what are the thoughts of a future AS SAN-PIT flight? My thoughts being, if the SEA flight does well and they want to increase their presence to PIT then SAN would be the best bet. It beats out PDX as I assume that is a small amount of PDEW. It beats SFO because I don't think AS wants to go up against UA.


jplatts wrote:
I think that WN would probably add PIT-SAN nonstop service in response to AS adding PIT-SAN nonstop service since WN has been recently expanding at SAN in order to defend market share in the SAN market.

SAN would be my first guess as to where AS could go other than SEA. WN is still probably be the best carrier to serve PIT-SAN. But given how complicit they've become at PIT which has been noted so many times, I just don't know if that would ever happen in the near future.

I would say either double daily SEA or a new destination (SAN) would be Alaska's next move. But it all depends on how SEA does in the winter and beyond. The flight is already alternating between the B738 and B739. Seems like they are starting to right-size capacity a bit.

PITexpress wrote:
I guess for SAN, the question is, could it support daily flights? I’m still hoping for seasonal PDX, but I’m not holding my breath.

I'dd add: What is the average amount of passengers that travel between Pittsburgh and San Diego on a daily basis? What about between Pittsburgh and Portland?

I think I remember it being shown on here a long time ago but I don't remember what the exact data was. IIRC PIT-SAN had numbers that could probably support daily service, but I think PIT-PDX was a bit too low for a nonstop.


Based on Q2 2018, PIT-PDX is 67 PDEW. For comparison, PIT is way down the list for unserved markets from PDX:
MIA/FLL-PDX-160 PDEW
BNA-PDX-130 PDEW
MSY-PDX-115 PDEW
RDU-PDX-109 PDEW
TPA-PDX-103 PDEW
IND-PDX-99 PDEW
SAT-PDX-80 PDEW
CMH-PDX-70 PDEW

PIT-SAN is 123 PDEW based on Q2, and drops to 95 during winter, although these numbers will increase in Q3 due to F9's entrance. I wouldn't count on AS adding PIT-SAN, so WN is the best bet
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Gsasala
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:49 pm

I've noticed that AA has been doing a lot of upgauging at PIT. I've seen a lot more A321s, and A320s coming in from PHL and CLT. Hopefully this is AA starting to be more competitive in the PIT market now that BA is coming
 
steeler83
Posts: 7640
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:17 pm

Gsasala wrote:
I've noticed that AA has been doing a lot of upgauging at PIT. I've seen a lot more A321s, and A320s coming in from PHL and CLT. Hopefully this is AA starting to be more competitive in the PIT market now that BA is coming

Do these upgauged flights seem to be timed for that BA LHR departure?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:05 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Based on Q2 2018, PIT-PDX is 67 PDEW. For comparison, PIT is way down the list for unserved markets from PDX


I have some friends south of Portland in Eugene who told me they would gladly make the 2-hour drive to PDX for a nonstop flight to PIT. Only two people, yes, but I'm sure there are more.

steeler83 wrote:
Gsasala wrote:
I've noticed that AA has been doing a lot of upgauging at PIT. I've seen a lot more A321s, and A320s coming in from PHL and CLT. Hopefully this is AA starting to be more competitive in the PIT market now that BA is coming

Do these upgauged flights seem to be timed for that BA LHR departure?


Even if they were, the LHR-PIT flight gets in so late that there are no connections on the way back through PIT without an overnight.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:49 pm

All of those AA changes are temporary. In Januray, DFW reverts to all-A319 and PHL loses mainline entirely other than a single A319 RON. CLT stays mainly A319 with a mix of RJs.

ORD however is getting 4x daily B738s, the highest amount of mainline AA has ever flown on the route. Interesting how they will have more mainline to ORD this winter than UA will.

It’s typical for AA to bump up capacity a bit in the fall. DFW recieved a daily A321 last month and there is currently a Sunday-only A321 from PHL operating this month.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:06 pm

Regarding F9, it would be interesting to see if they have ben more aggressive with their marketing in other cities or is their approach the same everywhere.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2898
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:07 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
Regarding F9, it would be interesting to see if they have ben more aggressive with their marketing in other cities or is their approach the same everywhere.


I don’t think I have ever seen a F9 ad in STL. But thy don’t fly a ton out of STL. Daily DEN/MCO/LAS/CUN. Starting PBI/Punta Cana. If you didn’t do some research you wouldn’t know those new flights are coming though. Even the airport hardly mentions their additions.
 
User avatar
dabpit
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 10:19 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:19 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Did anyone really think F9 was gonna serve PIT-SAN year round with an A321? Lots of hating on F9 on here about this, yet I didn't read anything about WN, DL, AA, NK, or UA ever displaying any interest whatsoever in operating the route.

Not hating on F9, just frustrated at what appears to be lack of effort by them and ACAA on advertising the routes. It was over-ambitious of F9 to think a A321 would have worked on PIT-SAN, should have been an A319 or A320 at most.

NK offering daily flights and advertising the PIT routes has given them the advantage over F9.
Carpe Diem
 
steeler83
Posts: 7640
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:54 pm

PITExpress, yeah I keep forgetting that the LHR flight is not timed well for connections through PIT. I know the flight to LHR provided little in the way of ample connections especially to India. Man, it looks as though BA is either banking on PIT-LHR-PIT being mostly O&D or there just wasn't an available slot for much of anything else. Hopefully they can make it work. I guess it's too early to tell regarding bookings for the April start-up flights.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITexpress
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:50 pm

steeler83 wrote:
PITExpress, yeah I keep forgetting that the LHR flight is not timed well for connections through PIT. I know the flight to LHR provided little in the way of ample connections especially to India. Man, it looks as though BA is either banking on PIT-LHR-PIT being mostly O&D or there just wasn't an available slot for much of anything else. Hopefully they can make it work. I guess it's too early to tell regarding bookings for the April start-up flights.


Yeahhh, I think someone mentioned that the late arrival/departure times in PIT are due to a lack of better timed slots in LHR. Moving it up a few hours would be ideal. But unless the flight were to land in PIT at 5pm or so, there really aren't that many evening departures in general from PIT.

Did F9 or the ACAA advertise their flights at all here? Was it just not part of an 'incentive package' to F9? I definitely agree that they could benefit with some brand recognition here.
 
JamesRenard
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:14 am

I don't think this got mentioned already, but it looks like AA has cut PIT-CUN for 2019.

The flights were scheduled to start on Feb 16th, but now they're nowhere to be seen.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7640
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:20 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
I don't think this got mentioned already, but it looks like AA has cut PIT-CUN for 2019.

The flights were scheduled to start on Feb 16th, but now they're nowhere to be seen.

Gee, what a shocker. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that less than daily?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos