Runway28L
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:59 pm

So out of pure curiosity, I decided to do an analysis of PIT's entire domestic network and create a dataset out of it. This includes outbound loads for every destination served by US carriers from PIT for July 2018.

JULY 2018

Southwest Airlines
PIT-FLL: 94%
PIT-LAX: 94%
PIT-TPA: 94%
PIT-DEN: 93%
PIT-LAS: 93%
PIT-BNA: 93%
PIT-DAL: 91%
PIT-PHX: 91%
PIT-HOU: 90%
PIT-STL: 89%
PIT-RSW: 85%
PIT-MCO: 85%
PIT-ATL: 84%
PIT-MDW: 82%
PIT-BWI: 74%
PIT-MSY: 67%
PIT-CUN: N/A

American Airlines
PIT-MIA: 93% (YX 92% MQ 93%)
PIT-CLT: 89% (AA 85% MQ 86% OH 86% YX 97%)
PIT-PHX: 89%
PIT-DFW: 87%
PIT-BOS: 83%
PIT-ORD: 80% (AA 83% MQ 76%)
PIT-JFK: 76%
PIT-PHL: 73% (AA 68% YX 77%)
PIT-DCA: 72% (YX 71% OH 73% AX 71%)
PIT-RDU: 70%
PIT-LGA: 58% (MQ 60% YX 55%)
PIT-CUN: N/A

Delta Air Lines
PIT-SLC: 91%
PIT-ATL: 89%
PIT-MSP: 86% (DL 84% 9E 87% OO 86%)
PIT-DTW: 82% (DL 82% 9E 80% G7 85%)
PIT-BOS: 79% (9E 74% OO 83%)
PIT-MCO: 77%
PIT-LGA: 70% (9E 73% OO 64% EV 73%)
PIT-JFK: 68%
PIT-CUN: N/A
PIT-CDG: N/A

United Airlines
PIT-DEN: 95%
PIT-ORD: 88% (UA 85% YX 91%)
PIT-IAH: 88% (UA 80% YX 91% YV 93%)
PIT-SFO: 88%
PIT-IAD: 75% (UA 59% YV 91%)
PIT-EWR: 73% (UA 75% YX 71%)

JetBlue Airways
PIT-FLL: 85%
PIT-BOS: 77%

Allegiant Air
PIT-AUS: 95%
PIT-SFB: 95%
PIT-PIE: 93%
PIT-PGB: 92%
PIT-SRQ: 92%
PIT-CHS: 92%
PIT-MSY: 90%
PIT-VPS: 88%
PIT-JAX: 88%
PIT-MYR: 85%
PIT-SAV: 81%
PIT-CUN: N/A
PIT-PUJ: N/A

Spirit Airlines
PIT-MYR: 91%
PIT-DFW: 87%
PIT-LAX: 87%
PIT-FLL: 83%
PIT-MCO: 83%
PIT-LAS: 82%

Frontier Airlines
PIT-DEN: 93%

Southern Airways Express
PIT-LNS: 56%
PIT-BFD: 45%
PIT-AOO: 43%
PIT-DUJ: 35%
PIT-HGR: 33%
PIT-JST: 32%
PIT-MGW: 25%
PIT-FKL: 23%

Some initial thoughts:
1. To my amazement, WN appears to be killing it on PIT-LAX. I am still dumbfounded as to why they are going down to 1x weekly for the winter. I checked their loads between October 2017-March 2018 and they were typically in the high 70s to low 90s. Meanwhile, it seems pretty evident as to why WN is going 2x daily to BNA and 3x daily to DEN. I believe STL is on the cusp of going 2x daily for good too. TPA could also go 3x daily year-round I think. Overall, the majority of WN's network at PIT looks very strong.

2. PIT-DEN overall could really use a capacity bump, and we will be seeing that with UA and WN increasing for 2019.

3. DL appears to be rebounding on PIT-BOS in terms of loads. SLC also got off to a great start during its first month of operation. And BTW, DL will be going 5x daily to BOS in April rather than June as part of their big expansion at Logan today.

4. AA appears to be doing really well on PIT-MIA. They ran it 4x daily not too long ago. Maybe that could be a possibility again?

5. LGA (and NYC in general) is an absolute bloodbath. DL adding frequencies isn't going to help things. No surprise that AA has downgraded that route to mostly ERJs.

6. G4 as a whole looks to be doing really well. SRQ appears to be very popular as I expected. I'm surprised at how well AUS and MSY did. They are clearly beating out WN on the latter significantly.

7. NK is doing a nice job with holding their own. DFW rebounded, but I guess it was too late for them to hang onto it.

8. SFO did well on UA at 2x daily. Really encouraging to see.

9. More evidence as to how suppressed PHL has become on AA, as talked about upthread. The same appears to be true with DCA.

10. I don't know how UA brings back mainline to IAD again. Clearly seems like it's been a struggle. They may have been better off adding extra frequencies on CRJ7s or E175s.

Regarding the "N/A" for the intl flights, I could only search data up to April 2018. Kind of a bummer. I am really curious to see loads for YUL, CUN, and KEF/CDG/FRA. And obviously, some carriers were left out such as J1 who ceased ops and AS who hadn't started service yet.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:51 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Regarding the "N/A" for the intl flights, I could only search data up to April 2018. Kind of a bummer. I am really curious to see loads for YUL, CUN, and KEF/CDG/FRA. And obviously, some carriers were left out such as J1 who ceased ops and AS who hadn't started service yet.


May

G4 PIT-CUN-62.4%; CUN-PIT-63.8%
VB PIT-CUN-60.0%; CUN-PIT-59.4%
DL PIT-CUN-94.1%; CUN-PIT-92.4%
AA PIT-CUN-75.9%; CUN-PIT-86.9%
WN CUN-PIT-81.1%

DL PIT-CDG-75.7%; CDG-PIT-44.1%

DE PIT-FRA-70.6%; FRA-PIT-43.8%

WW PIT-KEF-87.6%; KEF-PIT-74.9%

G4 PIT-PUJ-82.2%; PUJ-PIT-76.9%

AC PIT-YUL-72.1%; YUL-PIT-43.7%

AC PIT-YYZ-73.0%; YYZ-PIT-62.2%
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:31 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
History would then repeat itself from years back when WN pulled out after US increased frequencies and dropped fares to the point it wasnt worth it for WN. WN is now mostly hub and spoke with very few spoke to spoke. Maybe DL would try it but would probably have the same end result.

Except back then US didn't reduce frequency... they had at least 10x daily mostly on mainline equipment, and WN still came in with 7x daily. If you wanna talk about history, I will point to the fact that PIT-PHL has had two airlines on it more often than not over the past 40 years, be it a legacy such as TWA, a start up such as Nations Air, or an established LCC (at the time) such as WN.

Furthermore, it was WN who lowered fares in the market, so they had the pricing power. They could have come in with a $400 fare instead of a $99 fare and it still would have been a bargain, as US was charging more either way.


Gsasala wrote:
The only way WN would be able to do the PIT to PHL flight is if they cut the flights to BWI. Since most people would just drive from Baltimore to Philadelphia.

I'm not sure what driving from BWI to PHL has to do with airline flights from PIT to either BWI or PHL.
FLYi
 
corkscrew
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:10 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Gsasala wrote:
The only way WN would be able to do the PIT to PHL flight is if they cut the flights to BWI. Since most people would just drive from Baltimore to Philadelphia.

I'm not sure what driving from BWI to PHL has to do with airline flights from PIT to either BWI or PHL.


I don't either frankly. Baltimore to Philadelphia is 132 miles. New York to Philadelphia is only 90ish. By the implied logic, adding service to Philadelphia would necessitate cuts to JFK or LGA.

Most people, unless given no other option, aren't going to fly somewhere only to drive a couple hours afterward.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:03 pm

"A startup air-service company next month will offer regular nonstop flights between Pittsburgh and New York.

Fly Louie will offer the flights on nine-seat twin-engine Beechcraft KingAir 350s or Pilatus PC-12s six days a week between Allegheny County Airport in West Mifflin and Westchester County Airport near White Plains, New York. It's not an airline: Fly Louie owns no planes nor employs pilots, but instead arranges the flights with established charter operators.

CEO and Founder Julia Takeda said Fly Louie will offer travelers competitive fares — introductory rates are $538 one way with regular fares $795 one way, with discounts for frequent travelers — but with the speed and convenience of private air travel. There won't be the expenses, delays and hassles of flying out of the bigger airports, either. Safety and full-service are hallmarks of Fly Louie.

Fly Louie's mission, said Takeda, is to combine the best of commercial travel to the best of charter aviation.

Fly Louie began in 2017 with seasonal flights between New York and Nantucket, a popular summer destination spot. Takeda, who had been part of the team that sold an ed-tech company, had been exploring the charter space and believed there was a strong business model. Takeda said the company broke even in 2017 and had completed a market analysis for Fly Louie's next route. That analysis led Takeda and COO Eytan Kurshan, a former route planner for JetBlue Airways, to Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh is the second route for Fly Louie. Takeda said 1,200 people a day fly between Pittsburgh and New York. In the past several months, Takeda has met with the Allegheny County Airport Authority as well as business leaders in the Pittsburgh region."

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2018/12/11/startup-to-offer-air-service-pittsburgh-new-york.html

Whatever, but I'm glad she's not charging $59 r/t
FLYi
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:46 am

flyPIT wrote:
"A startup air-service company next month will offer regular nonstop flights between Pittsburgh and New York.

Fly Louie will offer the flights on nine-seat twin-engine Beechcraft KingAir 350s or Pilatus PC-12s six days a week between Allegheny County Airport in West Mifflin and Westchester County Airport near White Plains, New York. It's not an airline: Fly Louie owns no planes nor employs pilots, but instead arranges the flights with established charter operators.

CEO and Founder Julia Takeda said Fly Louie will offer travelers competitive fares — introductory rates are $538 one way with regular fares $795 one way, with discounts for frequent travelers — but with the speed and convenience of private air travel. There won't be the expenses, delays and hassles of flying out of the bigger airports, either. Safety and full-service are hallmarks of Fly Louie.

Fly Louie's mission, said Takeda, is to combine the best of commercial travel to the best of charter aviation.

Fly Louie began in 2017 with seasonal flights between New York and Nantucket, a popular summer destination spot. Takeda, who had been part of the team that sold an ed-tech company, had been exploring the charter space and believed there was a strong business model. Takeda said the company broke even in 2017 and had completed a market analysis for Fly Louie's next route. That analysis led Takeda and COO Eytan Kurshan, a former route planner for JetBlue Airways, to Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh is the second route for Fly Louie. Takeda said 1,200 people a day fly between Pittsburgh and New York. In the past several months, Takeda has met with the Allegheny County Airport Authority as well as business leaders in the Pittsburgh region."

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2018/12/11/startup-to-offer-air-service-pittsburgh-new-york.html

Whatever, but I'm glad she's not charging $59 r/t


Really interesting concept, but doesn't the county airport need TSA or security then? I've always thought the county airport could sustain a flight or two for business travelers.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
Runway28L
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:36 am

DL is upgrading PIT-CUN to a B739 for the winter and spring. First two flights run on B738s before bumping up to the B739 on 1/5. Transitions back to the A320 on 4/6.

Service operates 12/22/18 - 8/10/19
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Runway28L wrote:
So out of pure curiosity, I decided to do an analysis of PIT's entire domestic network and create a dataset out of it. This includes outbound loads for every destination served by US carriers from PIT for July 2018.

JULY 2018

Southwest Airlines
PIT-FLL: 94%
PIT-LAX: 94%
PIT-TPA: 94%
PIT-DEN: 93%
PIT-LAS: 93%
PIT-BNA: 93%
PIT-DAL: 91%
PIT-PHX: 91%
PIT-HOU: 90%
PIT-STL: 89%
PIT-RSW: 85%
PIT-MCO: 85%
PIT-ATL: 84%
PIT-MDW: 82%
PIT-BWI: 74%
PIT-MSY: 67%
PIT-CUN: N/A

American Airlines
PIT-MIA: 93% (YX 92% MQ 93%)
PIT-CLT: 89% (AA 85% MQ 86% OH 86% YX 97%)
PIT-PHX: 89%
PIT-DFW: 87%
PIT-BOS: 83%
PIT-ORD: 80% (AA 83% MQ 76%)
PIT-JFK: 76%
PIT-PHL: 73% (AA 68% YX 77%)
PIT-DCA: 72% (YX 71% OH 73% AX 71%)
PIT-RDU: 70%
PIT-LGA: 58% (MQ 60% YX 55%)
PIT-CUN: N/A

Delta Air Lines
PIT-SLC: 91%
PIT-ATL: 89%
PIT-MSP: 86% (DL 84% 9E 87% OO 86%)
PIT-DTW: 82% (DL 82% 9E 80% G7 85%)
PIT-BOS: 79% (9E 74% OO 83%)
PIT-MCO: 77%
PIT-LGA: 70% (9E 73% OO 64% EV 73%)
PIT-JFK: 68%
PIT-CUN: N/A
PIT-CDG: N/A

United Airlines
PIT-DEN: 95%
PIT-ORD: 88% (UA 85% YX 91%)
PIT-IAH: 88% (UA 80% YX 91% YV 93%)
PIT-SFO: 88%
PIT-IAD: 75% (UA 59% YV 91%)
PIT-EWR: 73% (UA 75% YX 71%)

JetBlue Airways
PIT-FLL: 85%
PIT-BOS: 77%

Allegiant Air
PIT-AUS: 95%
PIT-SFB: 95%
PIT-PIE: 93%
PIT-PGB: 92%
PIT-SRQ: 92%
PIT-CHS: 92%
PIT-MSY: 90%
PIT-VPS: 88%
PIT-JAX: 88%
PIT-MYR: 85%
PIT-SAV: 81%
PIT-CUN: N/A
PIT-PUJ: N/A

Spirit Airlines
PIT-MYR: 91%
PIT-DFW: 87%
PIT-LAX: 87%
PIT-FLL: 83%
PIT-MCO: 83%
PIT-LAS: 82%

Frontier Airlines
PIT-DEN: 93%

Southern Airways Express
PIT-LNS: 56%
PIT-BFD: 45%
PIT-AOO: 43%
PIT-DUJ: 35%
PIT-HGR: 33%
PIT-JST: 32%
PIT-MGW: 25%
PIT-FKL: 23%

Some initial thoughts:
1. To my amazement, WN appears to be killing it on PIT-LAX. I am still dumbfounded as to why they are going down to 1x weekly for the winter. I checked their loads between October 2017-March 2018 and they were typically in the high 70s to low 90s. Meanwhile, it seems pretty evident as to why WN is going 2x daily to BNA and 3x daily to DEN. I believe STL is on the cusp of going 2x daily for good too. TPA could also go 3x daily year-round I think. Overall, the majority of WN's network at PIT looks very strong.

2. PIT-DEN overall could really use a capacity bump, and we will be seeing that with UA and WN increasing for 2019.

3. DL appears to be rebounding on PIT-BOS in terms of loads. SLC also got off to a great start during its first month of operation. And BTW, DL will be going 5x daily to BOS in April rather than June as part of their big expansion at Logan today.

4. AA appears to be doing really well on PIT-MIA. They ran it 4x daily not too long ago. Maybe that could be a possibility again?

5. LGA (and NYC in general) is an absolute bloodbath. DL adding frequencies isn't going to help things. No surprise that AA has downgraded that route to mostly ERJs.

6. G4 as a whole looks to be doing really well. SRQ appears to be very popular as I expected. I'm surprised at how well AUS and MSY did. They are clearly beating out WN on the latter significantly.

7. NK is doing a nice job with holding their own. DFW rebounded, but I guess it was too late for them to hang onto it.

8. SFO did well on UA at 2x daily. Really encouraging to see.

9. More evidence as to how suppressed PHL has become on AA, as talked about upthread. The same appears to be true with DCA.

10. I don't know how UA brings back mainline to IAD again. Clearly seems like it's been a struggle. They may have been better off adding extra frequencies on CRJ7s or E175s.

Regarding the "N/A" for the intl flights, I could only search data up to April 2018. Kind of a bummer. I am really curious to see loads for YUL, CUN, and KEF/CDG/FRA. And obviously, some carriers were left out such as J1 who ceased ops and AS who hadn't started service yet.

Hopefully we can see American bumping the ERJ145 off and adding in an ERJ175 from the MIA flight and see more A321s. I also hope to see A320s on SLC route
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:57 pm

I thought AA was already running E175s on PIT-MIA. This idea with Fly Louie seems rather intriguing. I, too, wonder how they're going to make HPN-AGC work. Since they're a private airline they probably can use airports without TSA.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:16 pm

Gsasala wrote:
Hopefully we can see American bumping the ERJ145 off and adding in an ERJ175 from the MIA flight and see more A321s. I also hope to see A320s on SLC route

AA tinkered with the 32B on DFW-PIT in September, although it was brief and I don't know if it'll ever return to be quite honest. CLT only gets the A321 on occasion to rotate frames out of MX. Seems like AA is content with running things at high frequency on A319s and RJs for the most part.

If SLC continues to do well, I can see an upgrade to an A320 or B738 happening for the summer season.

steeler83 wrote:
I thought AA was already running E175s on PIT-MIA. This idea with Fly Louie seems rather intriguing. I, too, wonder how they're going to make HPN-AGC work. Since they're a private airline they probably can use airports without TSA.

PIT-MIA is currently 1x daily E145 and 1x daily E175. The ERJ arrives at noon and the 175 is an RON. A third daily afternoon flight on a 175 is coming back next month.

I imagine AGC would try to run things similar to how BKL does with Ultimate. Does anyone have any info on how they would set up a security checkpoint if these flights do need TSA? I've heard before that running one would be challenging due to the setup of the main "terminal" building.
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:47 pm

Today I was on an AA flight from MCO to PIT via CLT and I happened to look at the "American way" magazine when I looked at the map it said PIT didn't have a admiral club. Does anyone know why?
 
USPIT10L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:53 pm

As posted upthread, it is being renovated at the moment and is therefore closed. There is an Admirals Club service center near B34 while the regular club is under construction.
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:47 am

Since the AGC flights are technically charter, they don't require TSA????
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:12 am

ConcourseZ wrote:
Since the AGC flights are technically charter, they don't require TSA????


Someone correct me if i am wrong, but if the flight is between two non-commercial airports (meaning no connections) and is below a certain passenger count, then they don't need TSA. I could be totally wrong here, but i think i read something like this in the past.
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PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:12 pm

Cush wrote:
ConcourseZ wrote:
Since the AGC flights are technically charter, they don't require TSA????


Someone correct me if i am wrong, but if the flight is between two non-commercial airports (meaning no connections) and is below a certain passenger count, then they don't need TSA. I could be totally wrong here, but i think i read something like this in the past.


I think you're right, I recall reading about the tiny airports in Alaska that don't need TSA because of how few passengers they have. Sort of similar to international travel, if they fly to ANC, they will go through TSA there prior to connecting to say, Alaska Air.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:02 pm

 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:47 pm

Looks like United refreshed their gates in the past month, unless I'm crazy? Nice deep blues on the end walls with a big logo mark in the center. Minor but effective. Makes the Southwest side of A look tired in comparison.
 
PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:19 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Looks like United refreshed their gates in the past month, unless I'm crazy? Nice deep blues on the end walls with a big logo mark in the center. Minor but effective. Makes the Southwest side of A look tired in comparison.


Would be nice. Walking down D last week, I noticed a bunch of gates were blocked off with some renovation work going on. Anyone know what's happening there?
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:49 pm

PITexpress wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Looks like United refreshed their gates in the past month, unless I'm crazy? Nice deep blues on the end walls with a big logo mark in the center. Minor but effective. Makes the Southwest side of A look tired in comparison.


Would be nice. Walking down D last week, I noticed a bunch of gates were blocked off with some renovation work going on. Anyone know what's happening there?

D81/83/85 are being converted into office space for the contractor building the new terminal.

Not very ideal for DL as they are now having to park some RONs at the intl gates some nights.
 
JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:43 pm

Allegiant resumed their seasonal PIT-SJU service today after it was suspended for the 2017/2018 winter season.

Flights G41420 and G41421 were operated by an A319.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:56 pm

AA dropping PIT-JFK on 4/2/19.

PIT-ORD going up to 7x daily in April (4x E175s, 3x B738s)
Last edited by Runway28L on Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:58 pm

From today's OAG thread, in April:
  • DFW-PIT AA drops from 5x to 4x daily, matching last year's service
  • ORD-PIT AA increases from 6x to 7x daily flights, two flights more than last year
  • JFK-PIT AA loses all service for the month, but returns to 1x daily in May

I'm not surprised one carrier is taking a break from JFK-PIT, that route has been bleeding passengers.

For the twelve months ending Sep 2016, there were 70,651 passengers. Sep 2017, that was down to 67,402. Sep 2018, it's down even further to 63,314.
A drop of over 10% in two years. Ouch.
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:46 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
From today's OAG thread, in April:
  • DFW-PIT AA drops from 5x to 4x daily, matching last year's service
  • ORD-PIT AA increases from 6x to 7x daily flights, two flights more than last year
  • JFK-PIT AA loses all service for the month, but returns to 1x daily in May

I'm not surprised one carrier is taking a break from JFK-PIT, that route has been bleeding passengers.

For the twelve months ending Sep 2016, there were 70,651 passengers. Sep 2017, that was down to 67,402. Sep 2018, it's down even further to 63,314.
A drop of over 10% in two years. Ouch.

Numbers on PIT-NYC don't look spectacular at all. AA is doing even worse on LGA.

Aug 2018
AA PIT-LGA: 62% (MQ 65% YX 59%)
AA LGA-PIT: 75.5% (MQ 75% YX 76%)
DL PIT-LGA: 68% (9E 67% OO 69%)
DL LGA-PIT: 64.5% (9E 67% OO 62%)

AA PIT-JFK: 77%
AA JFK-PIT: 70%
DL PIT-JFK: 61%
DL JFK-PIT: 73%

UA PIT-EWR: 74% (UA 79% YX 69%)
UA EWR-PIT: 82% (UA 81% YX 83% )

I cannot see how DL puts an A220 on PIT-LGA/JFK. Hard to believe DL is going to increase frequency to LGA this upcoming summer.

Midwestindy wrote:
The drop is probably 70% because of PIT-LHR, considering PIT-LHR starts immediately after PIT-JFK is dropped. I doubt PIT-JFK will come back after April, the reason the flight is still showing is most likely because AA hasn't edited their schedules after April yet.

AA's schedule indeed only goes out to April. May is just a placeholder schedule. It's also beyond 4 moths out which is typical of AA to not have updated yet.

Oddly enough, DFW-PIT is still showing 5x daily on AA.com, but the equipment has been updated. Was originally:
2x A319s
1x MD-80
1x E175

Now showing:
3x B738s
2x A319s
Last edited by Runway28L on Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:46 pm

JamesRenard wrote:
From today's OAG thread, in April:
  • DFW-PIT AA drops from 5x to 4x daily, matching last year's service
  • ORD-PIT AA increases from 6x to 7x daily flights, two flights more than last year
  • JFK-PIT AA loses all service for the month, but returns to 1x daily in May

I'm not surprised one carrier is taking a break from JFK-PIT, that route has been bleeding passengers.

For the twelve months ending Sep 2016, there were 70,651 passengers. Sep 2017, that was down to 67,402. Sep 2018, it's down even further to 63,314.
A drop of over 10% in two years. Ouch.


The drop is probably 70% because of PIT-LHR, considering PIT-LHR starts immediately after PIT-JFK is dropped. I doubt PIT-JFK will come back after April, the reason the flight is still showing is most likely because AA hasn't edited their schedules after April yet.
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Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:32 am

Runway28L wrote:
Numbers on PIT-NYC don't look spectacular at all. AA is doing even worse on LGA.


I have a question if anyone can shed some light on this for me. I thought there was high demand for flights to NYC, or atleast high ticket prices. Here is why...

Many times when I am pricing out flights to eastern europe destinations, the price from JFK to (Destination) is very cheap, but once you tag on the PIT segment (i.e. PIT-JFK-SVO) for example, the price can go up 2-3x the amount. Now, this isn't always the case, but many times it is. What i don't get is, i always figured the PIT-JFK flight for example was near full, and therefore only the higher class ticket is available, hence the higher price. Seeing these numbers im guessing that isn't the case.

So, my question is, since loads are so poor, why is the PIT tag on to a continuing JFK flight to Europe so much more expensive than just going JFK to destination? I know there is an extra flight segment in there, but how can a PIT-JFK flight be more expensive than say JFK to Moscow or JFK to FRA or JFK to anywhere else.
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:13 am

Is UDG41, a B763, the Patriots return flight?
 
Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:20 pm

Cargo ops continuing to ramp up. UPS running 3 flights in from SDF tonight (1 MD-11 and 2 B752s). PHL upgraded to an A306. An extra section from RIC (B752) just arrived and another one from CAE (A306) is scheduled for later today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1156
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1228
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1152
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1154
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X9756
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X9895

There was a rumor going around that UPS was looking into sending a 747 to PIT for the holidays but ramp space and deice are unable to handle one.
 
ncflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:31 pm

Cush, you pose a GREAT question. I've noticed through the years that pricing discussions don't go very far on airliners.net. I can't figure out why, as it's a ripe topic for discussion. Maybe it's too heavily based on anecdote.

I've tried to raise some pricing oddities, for instance one I notice generally is international flights have sometimes been considerably cheaper from PIT than CLE, and have been that way for years. I've driven to PIT to save 100's per person on flights to Latin American and Asia, and one time I did it and ran in to my neighbor from CLE on the parking shuttle back to the hotel where we both overnighted. . . . .he was doing just what I did. This has been true before, during, and after WOW at PIT. . . .

So I'll respond with the what is probably not terribly insightful to you. PIT has less competition than NY, NY has so many one stop or nonstop options to every city in Europe, including on discount carriers, whereas PIT or other inland cities are more limited. The airlines are hoping you don't notice the pricing quirk that you do, or even if you do, that you're not willing to take on the risk of buying a split ticket to JFK and then JFK beyond. As you know if you miss a connection with a split ticket, it is your responsibility, not the airlines.
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:35 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Cush, you pose a GREAT question. I've noticed through the years that pricing discussions don't go very far on airliners.net. I can't figure out why, as it's a ripe topic for discussion. Maybe it's too heavily based on anecdote.

I've tried to raise some pricing oddities, for instance one I notice generally is international flights have sometimes been considerably cheaper from PIT than CLE, and have been that way for years. I've driven to PIT to save 100's per person on flights to Latin American and Asia, and one time I did it and ran in to my neighbor from CLE on the parking shuttle back to the hotel where we both overnighted. . . . .he was doing just what I did. This has been true before, during, and after WOW at PIT. . . .

So I'll respond with the what is probably not terribly insightful to you. PIT has less competition than NY, NY has so many one stop or nonstop options to every city in Europe, including on discount carriers, whereas PIT or other inland cities are more limited. The airlines are hoping you don't notice the pricing quirk that you do, or even if you do, that you're not willing to take on the risk of buying a split ticket to JFK and then JFK beyond. As you know if you miss a connection with a split ticket, it is your responsibility, not the airlines.


Just one more thing I wanted to mention as well. Last year (i forget if it was summer or winter trip), but I booked my wife on a one way PIT-JFK flight on DL, then JFK-SVO-JFK-PIT on Aeroflot as a separate ticket. Doing it this way saved a few hundred bucks, even though the delta flight i booked as a one way ticket was the EXACT same one we would have taken if we paid more and did the entire itinerary from PIT to PIT. Weird right? My wife said the flight from PIT-JFK was not sold out, so again, i question why do AA/DL/UA raise the prices on us so much...

Another oddity was this recent trip. We booked the flight through Priceline, as the same flight on Aeroflot's website or Orbitz was 3x the price we paid. How is this possible? How can a travel consolidator have a price 3x lower than the carrier performing the flight?
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm

Trans-Atlantic loads for May 2018:
PIT-KEF 88%
PIT-CDG 76% (8 departures)
PIT-FRA 71% (3 departures)

KEF-PIT 75%
CDG-PIT 44% (7 departures)
FRA-PIT 44% (3 departures)

The first couple weeks of a resuming seasonal flight will be low, however there was not one pound of cargo carried on either DL or DE :/


Runway28L wrote:
Numbers on PIT-NYC don't look spectacular at all. AA is doing even worse on LGA.

Aug 2018
AA PIT-LGA: 62% (MQ 65% YX 59%)
AA LGA-PIT: 75.5% (MQ 75% YX 76%)
DL PIT-LGA: 68% (9E 67% OO 69%)
DL LGA-PIT: 64.5% (9E 67% OO 62%)

AA PIT-JFK: 77%
AA JFK-PIT: 70%
DL PIT-JFK: 61%
DL JFK-PIT: 73%

UA PIT-EWR: 74% (UA 79% YX 69%)
UA EWR-PIT: 82% (UA 81% YX 83% )

I cannot see how DL puts an A220 on PIT-LGA/JFK. Hard to believe DL is going to increase frequency to LGA this upcoming summer.

Those numbers are not all that bad when you consider the frequency and the pricing. Delta, for example operating PIT-LGA 7x daily and charging $900 r/t. I'm not at all surprised they continue to add flights in the market.
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Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:45 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Cargo ops continuing to ramp up. UPS running 3 flights in from SDF tonight (1 MD-11 and 2 B752s). PHL upgraded to an A306. An extra section from RIC (B752) just arrived and another one from CAE (A306) is scheduled for later today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1156
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1228
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1152
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X1154
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X9756
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/5X9895

There was a rumor going around that UPS was looking into sending a 747 to PIT for the holidays but ramp space and deice are unable to handle one.


The new gate built for QR is capable of handling a 747. QR has priority use of that gate however and their schedule conflicts with UPS's primary hub schedule. In order to use that gate UPS would have to work around the QR schedule. Probably not worth if for just the few flights involved.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:53 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Trans-Atlantic loads for May 2018:
PIT-KEF 88%
PIT-CDG 76% (8 departures)
PIT-FRA 71% (3 departures)

KEF-PIT 75%
CDG-PIT 44% (7 departures)
FRA-PIT 44% (3 departures)

The first couple weeks of a resuming seasonal flight will be low, however there was not one pound of cargo carried on either DL or DE :/



Ummmmm....Check out post number #1952 on this page :)
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Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:01 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Those numbers are not all that bad when you consider the frequency and the pricing. Delta, for example operating PIT-LGA 7x daily and charging $900 r/t. I'm not at all surprised they continue to add flights in the market.


PIT-LGA isn't getting an extra flight next summer, it has been 8x daily, it only loses a frequency for the Holidays and goes back 8x daily in January.
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:21 am

Midwestindy wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Those numbers are not all that bad when you consider the frequency and the pricing. Delta, for example operating PIT-LGA 7x daily and charging $900 r/t. I'm not at all surprised they continue to add flights in the market.


PIT-LGA isn't getting an extra flight next summer, it has been 8x daily, it only loses a frequency for the Holidays and goes back 8x daily in January.

8x daily is a fairly recent increase, and it wasn't long ago it was 6x daily.
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masseybrown
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:06 am

flyPIT wrote:
More on Fly Louie:


How about taking advantage of rivers? In this case one in Pittsburgh plus the Hudson, to run a seaplane from Pittsburgh to New York. The Quest Kodiak can be fitted with floats and offers the same capacity as Fly Louie - 2 pilots and 8 pax. A seaplane could fly literally from downtown to downtown in an hour and 45 minutes or so and save the hour getting to town from HPN. Pittsburgh is just about the perfect distance from NYC to make it work. Just a thought ... :smile:
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:18 pm

masseybrown wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
More on Fly Louie:


How about taking advantage of rivers? In this case one in Pittsburgh plus the Hudson, to run a seaplane from Pittsburgh to New York. The Quest Kodiak can be fitted with floats and offers the same capacity as Fly Louie - 2 pilots and 8 pax. A seaplane could fly literally from downtown to downtown in an hour and 45 minutes or so and save the hour getting to town from HPN. Pittsburgh is just about the perfect distance from NYC to make it work. Just a thought ... :smile:


It would only work under VFR conditions though, as there are no instrument approaches to either the Hudson or 3 rivers. Even then, to find enough space between Pittsburgh's many bridges it would be at least a mile taxi from downtown. I just don't think that would be a reliable option.
FLYi
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:58 pm

"Innovation Campus promises to attract global manufacturing to Pittsburgh"
https://archpaper.com/2018/12/innovation-campus-promises-global-manufacturing-pittsburgh/
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steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:20 pm

Hopefully Fly Louie will be a success. I like the change of pace with this airline picking AGC over PIT.
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Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:21 pm

I see that AA downgraded us to the MD-83 on the DFW flight, but upgraded us to an A320 on the PHX flight. Also United started it's twice daily flights to SFO. I've also noticed that UPS has been adding a lot of flights in and out of PIT for the holidays
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:48 pm

I didn't think the double daily SFO flights happened until spring. Great news. Are they both year round from here on out?
 
Jshank83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:55 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
I didn't think the double daily SFO flights happened until spring. Great news. Are they both year round from here on out?


It is double just for the holidays. Goes back to 1x on the 7th. March 30th back to 2x.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 pm

Gsasala wrote:
I see that AA downgraded us to the MD-83 on the DFW flight, but upgraded us to an A320 on the PHX flight. Also United started it's twice daily flights to SFO. I've also noticed that UPS has been adding a lot of flights in and out of PIT for the holidays


Pretty disappointing after a stretch where DFW-PIT was a mix of 738s and 319s.
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Runway28L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:17 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Gsasala wrote:
I see that AA downgraded us to the MD-83 on the DFW flight, but upgraded us to an A320 on the PHX flight. Also United started it's twice daily flights to SFO. I've also noticed that UPS has been adding a lot of flights in and out of PIT for the holidays


Pretty disappointing after a stretch where DFW-PIT was a mix of 738s and 319s.

Goes back to B738/A319 in April.

DFW-PIT Jan 19
3x A319

DFW-PIT Feb 19
3x A319

DFW-PIT Mar 19
2x A319
1x MD-80
1x E175

DFW-PIT Apr 19
3x B738
2x A319

Would've been nice if they kept the 32B that operated on the route in September.
 
CaptainMidnight
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:33 pm

The FlyLouie flight is interesting. The regular fare they quoted is about $400-$500 higher than taking a traditional flight from PIT. Would a ton less hassle flying out of AGC. Looks like HPN is about an hour drive to Manhattan. Many drive times from LGA and JFK to Manhattan are in the same boat. . Hmm, pay extra to save a few hours of time..
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:30 pm

CaptainMidnight wrote:
The FlyLouie flight is interesting. The regular fare they quoted is about $400-$500 higher than taking a traditional flight from PIT. Would a ton less hassle flying out of AGC. Looks like HPN is about an hour drive to Manhattan. Many drive times from LGA and JFK to Manhattan are in the same boat. . Hmm, pay extra to save a few hours of time..


AGC is pain to get to from much of the area. I think the hassles of getting to and from there pretty much offset any convenience of going through there.
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:01 pm

Flaps wrote:
AGC is pain to get to from much of the area. I think the hassles of getting to and from there pretty much offset any convenience of going through there.


I hate to say it, but Flaps is right.... The "clientele" that will pay $500-600 for this sort of flight live no where near AGC and would have easier access from PIT. The passengers they are targeting are from the wealthy southern suburbs, north hills, fox chapel, sewickley, etc.... None of those places are near AGC, but are located within 30-40 minutes of PIT down 79/376.
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Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:14 pm

Does anyone know why Delta keeps flying 757s to and from PIT from airports that aren't Delta hubs?
 
georgiabill
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:42 pm

I would gladly take another maddog flight.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:35 am

Gsasala wrote:
Does anyone know why Delta keeps flying 757s to and from PIT from airports that aren't Delta hubs?


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