pdxswa
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:50 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 5:53 am

Gonna be interesting seeing the HA 763 here at PDX for awhile. Here is HA's newest Neo "Kalo" arriving from OGG. There are still only 3 in the fleet .....
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 5:31 pm

WN is ending PDX-SFO (not surprising at all, to say the very least). PDX-SMF and PDX-SJC both get an extra frequency. Other than that, I think that's it for this month's WN update.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 5:53 pm

Disregard this post.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 5:55 pm

“The carrier will now offer eight weekday roundtrips between San Jose and Portland, an increase of two flights each weekday.”

Meanwhile, who’s going to replace the second daily PDX-LGB that JetBlue cut?
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 5:58 pm

Google flights is being very buggy right now. Shows 2x PDX-BWI nonstop on Spirit, when in fact, they both have layovers at LAS

https://www.google.com/flights/?f=0#sea ... o;s=0;so=t


Not sure if this means that they have yet to split these flights to non-stop, or if it's just a buggy error.

Return flight shows 1x, which means that this is likely an error: https://www.google.com/flights/?f=0#sea ... o;s=0;so=t

Dang it, Google. Got my hopes up. :hissyfit:
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 6:11 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Google flights is being very buggy right now. Shows 2x PDX-BWI nonstop on Spirit, when in fact, they both have layovers at LAS

https://www.google.com/flights/?f=0#sea ... o;s=0;so=t


Not sure if this means that they have yet to split these flights to non-stop, or if it's just a buggy error.


One nonstop year round would be nice, instead of AS and WN running it for 12 whole weeks in the summer simultaneously. Portland to DC remains drastically underserved.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 6:37 pm

I just tweeted at Spirit. We'll see if anything comes of it. ;)

https://twitter.com/fa9295/status/1002256176292159494
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 9:49 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I just tweeted at Spirit. We'll see if anything comes of it. ;)

https://twitter.com/fa9295/status/1002256176292159494

...and I got nothing out of that. figures. :?
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 10:31 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I just tweeted at Spirit. We'll see if anything comes of it. ;)

https://twitter.com/fa9295/status/1002256176292159494

It's actually best to E - mail them if you want to contact a company.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 10:41 pm

dc10lover wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I just tweeted at Spirit. We'll see if anything comes of it. ;)

https://twitter.com/fa9295/status/1002256176292159494

It's actually best to E - mail them if you want to contact a company.


It’s screwed up on Skyscanner too. Shows nonstop but 8.5-hour duration.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5218
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 11:27 pm

FA9295 wrote:
WN is ending PDX-SFO (not surprising at all, to say the very least). PDX-SMF and PDX-SJC both get an extra frequency. Other than that, I think that's it for this month's WN update.

If it matters, PDX-SAN also got an additional flight - 3x daily r/t for Nov and Dec.

bb
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu May 31, 2018 11:47 pm

 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:49 am

This is absolutely baffling me. Made a separate thread on it myself, FWIW: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1395493
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:05 pm

Frontier's PDX-AUS flight (F9 flight 1290) was delayed for 12.5 hours:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N20 ... /KPDX/KAUS
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:10 pm

Also some news about the NK situation, the 2nd daily LAS flight (which is in the link that I posted above) is now gone, but the BWI flights still remain there, so maybe there's still hope for a PDX-BWI announcement at some point... :smile:
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:07 pm

After WN added mid-sized airport city pair SMF-MSY instead of PDX-BNA, I would rule out WN for the route. Looks like it will be up to Alaska. BNA is actively seeking the route especially for business passengers.

Looks like AA has dropped seasonal SLC-MIA. It’s not in their schedule or on their route map.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:26 pm

Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
pdx
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:10 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:56 am

FA9295 wrote:
Also some news about the NK situation, the 2nd daily LAS flight (which is in the link that I posted above) is now gone, but the BWI flights still remain there, so maybe there's still hope for a PDX-BWI announcement at some point... :smile:


NK's website shows 2 nonstops to LAS, 1 nonstop to ORD...and that's it. Their route map draws a line to DTW which needs
to be removed. I looked at 11JUL. Maybe these flights aren't daily? In the thread about EI's USA expansion it sounds like PDX
didn't submit an RFI...

Aer Lingus has launched a Request for Information for Commercial Support for Transatlantic Network Development (RFI).

I thought our "International Air Service Committee" was actively pursuing new routes? They didn't even attend
Routes Europe conference this year......but of course SEA did. No wonder our int'l service sucks!
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:23 am

pdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Also some news about the NK situation, the 2nd daily LAS flight (which is in the link that I posted above) is now gone, but the BWI flights still remain there, so maybe there's still hope for a PDX-BWI announcement at some point... :smile:


NK's website shows 2 nonstops to LAS, 1 nonstop to ORD...and that's it. Their route map draws a line to DTW which needs
to be removed. I looked at 11JUL. Maybe these flights aren't daily? In the thread about EI's USA expansion it sounds like PDX
didn't submit an RFI...

Aer Lingus has launched a Request for Information for Commercial Support for Transatlantic Network Development (RFI).

I thought our "International Air Service Committee" was actively pursuing new routes? They didn't even attend
Routes Europe conference this year......but of course SEA did. No wonder our int'l service sucks!

I think our only two adds this year were PDX-MCO on Sun Country and PDX-AUS on Frontier, both of which are already served by Alaska, and are also both only 3x weekly summer seasonal.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:36 am

^^^
Flying home LHR-PDX in a couple hours.
Probably going to be back here next month for a few days too.

We need this route to be year round for sure.
If Seattle can support double daily on BA alone, and 4 carriers flying SEA-LHR in summer, we gotta be able to have year round service by now....
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:45 am

BlatantEcho wrote:
^^^
Flying home LHR-PDX in a couple hours.
Probably going to be back here next month for a few days too.

We need this route to be year round for sure.
If Seattle can support double daily on BA alone, and 4 carriers flying SEA-LHR in summer, we gotta be able to have year round service by now....

What's keeping Portland from having the level of service that SEA does, is the lack of any sort of business market at PDX. There are literally dozens of companies headquartered in the Seattle metropolitan area (lots of them are in the fortune 500) with international ties to numerous countries all around the world. Portland has Nike, and that's pretty much it. Airlines (such as Delta) choose to increase their schedule for the summer season, particularly at PDX, because that's when the travel/tourism season is at it's peak. In the winter, the passenger numbers significantly drop off to and from PDX, but what keeps SEA's numbers from dropping off in the winter months, is the international business/corporate connections from all around the world, which PDX unfortunately doesn't really have at all.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:17 am

^^^
I’m very well aware of the rational behind it.
My simple point was, 4 flights daily SEA-LHR vs. 1x flight, 4 times a week in the summer, is a VAST difference.

As an owner of a medium sized business that imports products from 7 countries, I’m traveling around the world regularly.
So, yes, I understand how it works with service levels matching demand/premium fares.

My point has remained: so many Portland people are very happy to connect in SEA, which really hurts us.

If there was a campaign by the PoP to stimatize this, while also encouraging Asia & European service... we might be able to get to 1x daily for basic European cities.
 
User avatar
PDXPOL
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:47 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:21 am

FA9295 wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
^^^
Flying home LHR-PDX in a couple hours.
Probably going to be back here next month for a few days too.

We need this route to be year round for sure.
If Seattle can support double daily on BA alone, and 4 carriers flying SEA-LHR in summer, we gotta be able to have year round service by now....

What's keeping Portland from having the level of service that SEA does, is the lack of any sort of business market at PDX. There are literally dozens of companies headquartered in the Seattle metropolitan area (lots of them are in the fortune 500) with international ties to numerous countries all around the world. Portland has Nike, and that's pretty much it. Airlines (such as Delta) choose to increase their schedule for the summer season, particularly at PDX, because that's when the travel/tourism season is at it's peak. In the winter, the passenger numbers significantly drop off to and from PDX, but what keeps SEA's numbers from dropping off in the winter months, is the international business/corporate connections from all around the world, which PDX unfortunately doesn't really have at all.



I hear that several times, but clearly not all that accurate. The State of Washington has 7 fortune 500 companies, not very many in the total. Yes Oregon has less with 3, but even combining the 2 States, is a very small piece of the pie. There is much more than just Nike, there is Adidas US headquarters, there is Daimler US headquarters, plus many more international companies in Oregon. People talk Intel, but that really has no effect on PDX traffic. Intel runs their own airline out of Hillsboro to California. If you want to say there are many Fortune 500 companies with offices in Seattle, there is the same for Oregon and PDX. The fact is both Delta and Alaska funnel as many people they can to Seattle or Los Angeles and with that, PDX will be left out on major expansion from the nationals. I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:54 am

The LHR boarding area was mostly hipsters and retired folks. Not a lot of suits or professional looking people. So, gotta be all leisure.

Maybe Portland will attract some big global tech companies that stimulate more business seat purchases ex/pdx

Anyway, 10hrs back to pdx. I’ll appreciste and keep utilizing the European non stops we have!
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:02 pm

PDXPOL wrote:
I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.

I definitely agree with you on this part. Probably Hainan to Beijing and/or Shanghai, as well as Cathay to Hong Kong if they want to utilize codeshare opportunities with Alaska. Maybe also ANA and/or JAL to NRT if Delta eventually decides to pull out of that market.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:21 pm

PDXPOL wrote:
The fact is both Delta and Alaska funnel as many people they can to Seattle or Los Angeles and with that, PDX will be left out on major expansion from the nationals. I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.


Some of the intl airlines at SEA even admit they depend on Portland pax to fill their planes. One (Thomas Cook?) recently said a big chunk of their traffic to SEA was Portland bound.

As long as the airlines can continue getting away with pushing Portland pax into having to connect, they will, even domestically. To SEA it adds ~2 hours travel time each way. Those 25+ PDX-SEA flights a day each way aren’t carrying many O&D passengers. If you include time to/from/at airports, it’s quicker to drive or take Amtrak.

And the importance of Fortune 500 companies HQ argument is getting old.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
User avatar
bigfoot0503
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:15 pm

There was a recent article in the Seattle Times, which clearly stated that Alaska Airlines in their efforts to maintain the allocated number of SEA gates and keep passenger counts high...that they are purposefully routing more flights through SEA than PDX. (Possibly aimed at staving any growth from DL...residual growth at PDX by AS is very likely impacted however)

So while Alaska may say that flights such as the BLI to PDX flight have been marginal with 70% plus LF's for several years...strange then that they added a second BLI-PDX flight recently.
It seems that as passengers at PDX we are dealing with the hometown airline (Alaska) that may not show as much focus and growth as we have become accustomed to in years past. It would be fairly easy for Alaska to lose market share in Portland and another carrier such as Southwest, Delta or United who have all seen market share fluctuations to gain ground or witness moderate advances. Additionally, I'm not altogether certain that the Port of Portland is advocating in the correct manner for passengers at PDX. It's great to have a wonderful facility that offers amazing dining options, craft beer, local shopping with no sales tax, etc...but what about focusing on synergies between various markets. Nashville is dying for a non-stop to PDX and it's certainly warranted. Or as Blatant Echo has pointed out on several occasions...how about a year-round non-stop to London? If it's not Delta, then let's court British Airways. And lastly the long talked about additional flight to Asia...one that I myself have personally advocated for and experienced the woes of not having other than the Delta PDX-NRT flight, which I will amend my schedule to take any day rather than having to connect thru Seattle or elsewhere. I am also staunchly a PDX loyalist...I believe we will only see new service if we utilize that which we presently have.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:04 am

bigfoot0503 wrote:
There was a recent article in the Seattle Times, which clearly stated that Alaska Airlines in their efforts to maintain the allocated number of SEA gates and keep passenger counts high...that they are purposefully routing more flights through SEA than PDX. (Possibly aimed at staving any growth from DL...residual growth at PDX by AS is very likely impacted however)

So while Alaska may say that flights such as the BLI to PDX flight have been marginal with 70% plus LF's for several years...strange then that they added a second BLI-PDX flight recently.
It seems that as passengers at PDX we are dealing with the hometown airline (Alaska) that may not show as much focus and growth as we have become accustomed to in years past. It would be fairly easy for Alaska to lose market share in Portland and another carrier such as Southwest, Delta or United who have all seen market share fluctuations to gain ground or witness moderate advances. Additionally, I'm not altogether certain that the Port of Portland is advocating in the correct manner for passengers at PDX. It's great to have a wonderful facility that offers amazing dining options, craft beer, local shopping with no sales tax, etc...but what about focusing on synergies between various markets. Nashville is dying for a non-stop to PDX and it's certainly warranted. Or as Blatant Echo has pointed out on several occasions...how about a year-round non-stop to London? If it's not Delta, then let's court British Airways. And lastly the long talked about additional flight to Asia...one that I myself have personally advocated for and experienced the woes of not having other than the Delta PDX-NRT flight, which I will amend my schedule to take any day rather than having to connect thru Seattle or elsewhere. I am also staunchly a PDX loyalist...I believe we will only see new service if we utilize that which we presently have.

:checkmark: Exactly. PDX also needs a flight to CDG as well as a year-round LHR flight. I know that quite a few airports across the country, such as TPA, FLL, MSY, RDU, BNA, SAT, IND, and SBP have all advocated for PDX flights at some point in time.
Last edited by FA9295 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:15 am

I think this could eventually go one of three ways, in the long-term future: (#1 being the most likely; #3 being the least likely).

1). Alaska will eventually start to increase it's PDX traffic in order to level out (or relieve, depending on how you want to look at it) their mainstream flow of traffic through SEA. There's more than enough gates left for Alaska to utilize at PDX. The passenger demand is clearly there. And there's very little competition to have to deal with, since no other airline has a major hub at PDX (unlike at SEA, where Delta is currently in the process of raising a major west-coast hub there).

2). If Alaska continues to pull back at PDX, I think Southwest would be the most likely airline to step up it's operations at PDX. If this were to happen, I could see them eventually making some of their seasonal destinations, such as AUS, ABQ, and BWI year-round and eventually expanding their PDX network to include a very large number of transcontinental routes along with continuing to take a stab at Alaska's PDX-SoCal network as well. Re-adding SNA (and SFO if Alaska significantly pulls back the frequencies on that route, which is probably not likely since SFO is now a hub for them), as well as starting LGB service.

3). Since Alaska won over the deal to buy Virgin ahead of JetBlue, it may be possible in the long-term future that JetBlue might consider starting a focus city at PDX. JetBlue's presence in the Pacific Northwest is very slim (obviously because of Alaska's current presence here). I think it would take a lot for this to happen, they would need to first make BOS year-round (for crying out loud) as well as eventually adding MINT on both JFK and BOS. But if Alaska wants to "attack" Alaska (if you will) in any sort of way, I think PDX would be a great target for them, since it is Alaska's smallest hub.
 
jetboy319
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:41 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:54 am

FA9295 wrote:
since it is Alaska's smallest hub.


Except that PDX is actually their second largest hub, at least according to AS.

Hub / 2017 Avg. Daily Departures (including VX)
Seattle / 294
Portland / 129
San Francisco Bay Area* / 124
Los Angeles Area** / 112
Anchorage / 46
San Diego / 38

*San Francisco Bay Area includes SFO, SJC & OAK
**Los Angeles Area includes LAX, BUR, SNA & ONT
 
msycajun
Posts: 1101
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:40 am

FA9295 wrote:
bigfoot0503 wrote:
There was a recent article in the Seattle Times, which clearly stated that Alaska Airlines in their efforts to maintain the allocated number of SEA gates and keep passenger counts high...that they are purposefully routing more flights through SEA than PDX. (Possibly aimed at staving any growth from DL...residual growth at PDX by AS is very likely impacted however)
.

:checkmark: Exactly. PDX also needs a flight to CDG as well as a year-round LHR flight. I know that quite a few airports across the country, such as TPA, FLL, MSY, RDU, BNA, SAT, IND, and SBP have all advocated for PDX flights at some point in time.


As an outsider, I'd agree and PDX has been at the top of my list for MSY for a while now. Surprising that this winter we'll have a daily SMF, (on WN) which is a much smaller market. Does make me wonder if PDX is not offering enough incentive for new routes, although I know AS is tight on planes and crews.

The current AS flights from SEA/SFO to MSY are timed for O&D with morning eastbound departures and arriving back late in the evening, such that a lot of the smaller markets AS serves are not available as a connection. An evening PDX-MSY (or even a red-eye) that heads back first thing in the morning would open up a lot more connections and complement the other flights. Seems like if PDX could get a few of those domestic markets added, that would help grow some of the smaller markets and international flights that depend more on connections.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:46 am

Maybe Frontier Airlines can pick up Portland - Nashville?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
jsta1981
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:23 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:29 am

jbpdx wrote:
PDXPOL wrote:
The fact is both Delta and Alaska funnel as many people they can to Seattle or Los Angeles and with that, PDX will be left out on major expansion from the nationals. I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.


Some of the intl airlines at SEA even admit they depend on Portland pax to fill their planes. One (Thomas Cook?) recently said a big chunk of their traffic to SEA was Portland bound.

As long as the airlines can continue getting away with pushing Portland pax into having to connect, they will, even domestically. To SEA it adds ~2 hours travel time each way. Those 25+ PDX-SEA flights a day each way aren’t carrying many O&D passengers. If you include time to/from/at airports, it’s quicker to drive or take Amtrak.

And the importance of Fortune 500 companies HQ argument is getting old.



The # of large corporations/headquarters in an area absolutely is important when it comes to airlines deciding where to fly. Just look at Cincinnati....which is otherwise a rather depressed area, but happens to maintain a large delta presence. Delta maintains a large presence in Cincinnati, not because Cincinnati is a hotbed for tourism, but because it is home to the corporate headquarters of Macy's, Proctor & Gamble, General Electric, and Kroger.
Airlines make their money off of business travelers. Tourists and the little Gregorys visiting grandma help fill the back of the plane, but business travelers pay for the premium seats.
The # of large corporations/headquarters (not to mention the fact that the Seattle CSA is 4.5 million vs Portland which is 3 million) absolutely plays a role in why Seattle has many more domestic & international nonstop destinations than Portland. Large corporate headquarters also provide wealth. Just consider the following numbers:

Portland's largest employers: Intel (non headquarters...mostly line staff) 20000 employees, Nike headquarters 8500 employees, adidas US headquarters 1600 employees, OHSU 14000 employees, Precision Castparts headquarters 2000 employees, daimler trucks 800 employees. Portland is also home to some great, but small tech companies. Great stuff for Portland.

Now consider Seattle's numbers: boeing 70000 employees, amazon headquarters 40000 employees, microsoft headquarters 40000 employees, University of Washington 35000 employees, joint base lewis-mccord 50000 employees, nordstrom headquarters 6000 employees, starbucks headquarters 7000 employees, expedia headquarters 5000 employees, providence health care systems 20000 employees, costco headquarters 8000 employees, weyerhauser headquarters 10000 employees, nintendo headquarters 1000 employees.

As I've just shown.....yes the # of large corporations/headquarters an area has absolutely determines when and where airlines decide to fly.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:20 am

jsta1981 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
PDXPOL wrote:
The fact is both Delta and Alaska funnel as many people they can to Seattle or Los Angeles and with that, PDX will be left out on major expansion from the nationals. I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.


Some of the intl airlines at SEA even admit they depend on Portland pax to fill their planes. One (Thomas Cook?) recently said a big chunk of their traffic to SEA was Portland bound.

As long as the airlines can continue getting away with pushing Portland pax into having to connect, they will, even domestically. To SEA it adds ~2 hours travel time each way. Those 25+ PDX-SEA flights a day each way aren’t carrying many O&D passengers. If you include time to/from/at airports, it’s quicker to drive or take Amtrak.

And the importance of Fortune 500 companies HQ argument is getting old.



The # of large corporations/headquarters in an area absolutely is important when it comes to airlines deciding where to fly. Just look at Cincinnati....which is otherwise a rather depressed area, but happens to maintain a large delta presence. Delta maintains a large presence in Cincinnati, not because Cincinnati is a hotbed for tourism, but because it is home to the corporate headquarters of Macy's, Proctor & Gamble, General Electric, and Kroger.
Airlines make their money off of business travelers. Tourists and the little Gregorys visiting grandma help fill the back of the plane, but business travelers pay for the premium seats.
The # of large corporations/headquarters (not to mention the fact that the Seattle CSA is 4.5 million vs Portland which is 3 million) absolutely plays a role in why Seattle has many more domestic & international nonstop destinations than Portland. Large corporate headquarters also provide wealth. Just consider the following numbers:

Portland's largest employers: Intel (non headquarters...mostly line staff) 20000 employees, Nike headquarters 8500 employees, adidas US headquarters 1600 employees, OHSU 14000 employees, Precision Castparts headquarters 2000 employees, daimler trucks 800 employees. Portland is also home to some great, but small tech companies. Great stuff for Portland.

Now consider Seattle's numbers: boeing 70000 employees, amazon headquarters 40000 employees, microsoft headquarters 40000 employees, University of Washington 35000 employees, joint base lewis-mccord 50000 employees, nordstrom headquarters 6000 employees, starbucks headquarters 7000 employees, expedia headquarters 5000 employees, providence health care systems 20000 employees, costco headquarters 8000 employees, weyerhauser headquarters 10000 employees, nintendo headquarters 1000 employees.

As I've just shown.....yes the # of large corporations/headquarters an area has absolutely determines when and where airlines decide to fly.

Agreed. However, that's just one out of many factors that determine whether or not a particular route may or may not be profitable for a given airline.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:22 am

dc10lover wrote:
Maybe Frontier Airlines can pick up Portland - Nashville?

I doubt it. The only regular flights that F9 flies to BNA are DEN and MCO. They would need to have a much larger presence their first. It would probably look like the ususal summer seasonal 4x weekly to SEA and 3x weekly to PDX, just like they have with both AUS and CLE. Alaska and/or Southwest would (hopefully) be able to maintain the service year-round.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 737
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:31 pm

Everyone has great thoughts here and I agree that the Port probably isn’t pushing for international service as they should. Portland can support year round to Europe and Asia to more than just AMS and NRT. The port needs to get on it.

Consider writing or attempting to get a meeting with Curtis Robinhold, other Port leadership or David Zielke, Director of Air Service Development. Phone numbers are at https://www2.portofportland.com/Inside/ContactUs.

About 5 years ago, I requested a meeting with the Ports COO and was given that opportunity. Make a case and bring up your valid points. You have nothing to lose.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:50 pm

OAG for Oregon: 6/3/2018:

AS PDX-KOA AUG 0.3>0.0

DL ATL-PDX SEP 3>4

WN LAX-PDX OCT 1.8>3
WN PDX-SAN OCT 1.2>1.9
WN PDX-SFO NOV 3>0.2
WN PDX-SJC OCT 4>6 NOV 4>7 DEC 4>6

Nothing for EUG/MFR/RDM
 
lhpdx
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:18 am

More details on the PDX Next-TCORE and construction schedule:

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/1-CAC ... 0FINAL.pdf
 
User avatar
rosecityspotter
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:28 am

lhpdx wrote:
More details on the PDX Next-TCORE and construction schedule:

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/1-CAC ... 0FINAL.pdf


I can't wait to see what the new concourse E extension looks like. Gonna be great from what it looks like.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:46 am

I'm glad to see that the two jetways lost on CC-D and CC-C will be added to the new CC-B extension....
 
pdx
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:10 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:56 am

lhpdx wrote:
More details on the PDX Next-TCORE and construction schedule:

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/1-CAC ... 0FINAL.pdf


These maps are horrible! Nobody could figure out what they're doing with the ticket lobby and Clock Tower Plaza by
looking at these. What's the "western expansion" they talk about? Are they going to tear down the concourse connector,
expand out and then rebuild it? How many gates will concourse B have? Thanks for linking it. Too bad it's such a bad
presentation.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:24 pm

pdx wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
More details on the PDX Next-TCORE and construction schedule:

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/1-CAC ... 0FINAL.pdf


These maps are horrible! Nobody could figure out what they're doing with the ticket lobby and Clock Tower Plaza by
looking at these. What's the "western expansion" they talk about? Are they going to tear down the concourse connector,
expand out and then rebuild it? How many gates will concourse B have? Thanks for linking it. Too bad it's such a bad
presentation.

Yeah, the presentation is somewhat vague, but you have to remember that the majority of the fine details are probably still in the works. We'll probably know a lot more within the next few months or so. Most of the construction won't even start until 2020 (not including the Concourse E expansion, which is currently underway).
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:54 pm

Portland - Bozeman, Montana is now year round service.

https://bozemanairport.com/article-313
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:43 am

dc10lover wrote:
Portland - Bozeman, Montana is now year round service.

https://bozemanairport.com/article-313

That's great news! It looks like it's going to be permanently on the E175 too!
 
jbpdx
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:44 pm

Why does Frontier bother staying at PDX? They only operate one year-round daily destination (DEN) and two seasonal 3-day/wk (AUS, CLE). Their connections are pretty much horrible.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
pnwpdx
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:34 pm

jbpdx wrote:
PDXPOL wrote:
The fact is both Delta and Alaska funnel as many people they can to Seattle or Los Angeles and with that, PDX will be left out on major expansion from the nationals. I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.


Some of the intl airlines at SEA even admit they depend on Portland pax to fill their planes. One (Thomas Cook?) recently said a big chunk of their traffic to SEA was Portland bound.

As long as the airlines can continue getting away with pushing Portland pax into having to connect, they will, even domestically. To SEA it adds ~2 hours travel time each way. Those 25+ PDX-SEA flights a day each way aren’t carrying many O&D passengers. If you include time to/from/at airports, it’s quicker to drive or take Amtrak.

And the importance of Fortune 500 companies HQ argument is getting old.


With that said....I just booked a flight to Europe this fall. The cheapest flight was going to take me to Seattle and utilizing their AF SEA-CDG flight, but for three more dollars, I chose the PDX-AMS non stop to my end destination and with only one stop, instead of two.

#SupportPDXInternationalNonstops :)
Next Flight:
PDX-SEA-PHX-LAX-PDX on DL
 
bobsmith99
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:02 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:00 am

jsta1981 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
PDXPOL wrote:
The fact is both Delta and Alaska funnel as many people they can to Seattle or Los Angeles and with that, PDX will be left out on major expansion from the nationals. I believe the next major international flight will be from a foreign carrier.


Some of the intl airlines at SEA even admit they depend on Portland pax to fill their planes. One (Thomas Cook?) recently said a big chunk of their traffic to SEA was Portland bound.

As long as the airlines can continue getting away with pushing Portland pax into having to connect, they will, even domestically. To SEA it adds ~2 hours travel time each way. Those 25+ PDX-SEA flights a day each way aren’t carrying many O&D passengers. If you include time to/from/at airports, it’s quicker to drive or take Amtrak.

And the importance of Fortune 500 companies HQ argument is getting old.



The # of large corporations/headquarters in an area absolutely is important when it comes to airlines deciding where to fly. Just look at Cincinnati....which is otherwise a rather depressed area, but happens to maintain a large delta presence. Delta maintains a large presence in Cincinnati, not because Cincinnati is a hotbed for tourism, but because it is home to the corporate headquarters of Macy's, Proctor & Gamble, General Electric, and Kroger.
Airlines make their money off of business travelers. Tourists and the little Gregorys visiting grandma help fill the back of the plane, but business travelers pay for the premium seats.
The # of large corporations/headquarters (not to mention the fact that the Seattle CSA is 4.5 million vs Portland which is 3 million) absolutely plays a role in why Seattle has many more domestic & international nonstop destinations than Portland. Large corporate headquarters also provide wealth. Just consider the following numbers:

Portland's largest employers: Intel (non headquarters...mostly line staff) 20000 employees, Nike headquarters 8500 employees, adidas US headquarters 1600 employees, OHSU 14000 employees, Precision Castparts headquarters 2000 employees, daimler trucks 800 employees. Portland is also home to some great, but small tech companies. Great stuff for Portland.

Now consider Seattle's numbers: boeing 70000 employees, amazon headquarters 40000 employees, microsoft headquarters 40000 employees, University of Washington 35000 employees, joint base lewis-mccord 50000 employees, nordstrom headquarters 6000 employees, starbucks headquarters 7000 employees, expedia headquarters 5000 employees, providence health care systems 20000 employees, costco headquarters 8000 employees, weyerhauser headquarters 10000 employees, nintendo headquarters 1000 employees.

As I've just shown.....yes the # of large corporations/headquarters an area has absolutely determines when and where airlines decide to fly.



Actually, your argument falls apart when you consider cities like Omaha is home to 5 Fortune 500 companies, Toledo home to 4 Fortune 500 companies and cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati have seen a massive decline in service. Fortune 500 HQ are important to a degree, but the new economy (driven largely by tech) is increasingly becoming more of a determining factor. Portland has seen significant growth in this sector.
 
jsta1981
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:23 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:42 am

bobsmith99 wrote:
jsta1981 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

Some of the intl airlines at SEA even admit they depend on Portland pax to fill their planes. One (Thomas Cook?) recently said a big chunk of their traffic to SEA was Portland bound.

As long as the airlines can continue getting away with pushing Portland pax into having to connect, they will, even domestically. To SEA it adds ~2 hours travel time each way. Those 25+ PDX-SEA flights a day each way aren’t carrying many O&D passengers. If you include time to/from/at airports, it’s quicker to drive or take Amtrak.

And the importance of Fortune 500 companies HQ argument is getting old.



The # of large corporations/headquarters in an area absolutely is important when it comes to airlines deciding where to fly. Just look at Cincinnati....which is otherwise a rather depressed area, but happens to maintain a large delta presence. Delta maintains a large presence in Cincinnati, not because Cincinnati is a hotbed for tourism, but because it is home to the corporate headquarters of Macy's, Proctor & Gamble, General Electric, and Kroger.
Airlines make their money off of business travelers. Tourists and the little Gregorys visiting grandma help fill the back of the plane, but business travelers pay for the premium seats.
The # of large corporations/headquarters (not to mention the fact that the Seattle CSA is 4.5 million vs Portland which is 3 million) absolutely plays a role in why Seattle has many more domestic & international nonstop destinations than Portland. Large corporate headquarters also provide wealth. Just consider the following numbers:

Portland's largest employers: Intel (non headquarters...mostly line staff) 20000 employees, Nike headquarters 8500 employees, adidas US headquarters 1600 employees, OHSU 14000 employees, Precision Castparts headquarters 2000 employees, daimler trucks 800 employees. Portland is also home to some great, but small tech companies. Great stuff for Portland.

Now consider Seattle's numbers: boeing 70000 employees, amazon headquarters 40000 employees, microsoft headquarters 40000 employees, University of Washington 35000 employees, joint base lewis-mccord 50000 employees, nordstrom headquarters 6000 employees, starbucks headquarters 7000 employees, expedia headquarters 5000 employees, providence health care systems 20000 employees, costco headquarters 8000 employees, weyerhauser headquarters 10000 employees, nintendo headquarters 1000 employees.

As I've just shown.....yes the # of large corporations/headquarters an area has absolutely determines when and where airlines decide to fly.



Actually, your argument falls apart when you consider cities like Omaha is home to 5 Fortune 500 companies, Toledo home to 4 Fortune 500 companies and cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati have seen a massive decline in service. Fortune 500 HQ are important to a degree, but the new economy (driven largely by tech) is increasingly becoming more of a determining factor. Portland has seen significant growth in this sector.


My argument doesn't fall apart at all. Other than Omaha, each of the cities you mentioned are in varying levels of depression. Their populations are declining, their manufacturing jobs leaving for abroad, and zero tourism factor (who wants to sign up to visit Cincinnati or St. Louis?). The only reason Delta maintains such a large presence in Cincinnati is because of the large corporate headquarters based there. The only reason Toledo still has an airport is because of the large corporate headquarters based there (otherwise dtw makes a great option 50 miles up the highway). A big factor in Omaha not having more flights is that it's a relatively small metro area...I believe less than a million, it's large corporations focus much of their business here in the USA, and there's hardly any tourism factor to Omaha other than the little league world series.

PDX is none of those. It's a growing city, with a very seasonal tourism factor, and an economy that's trying to grow but is somewhat stagnant right now. It's an Outpost for large tech companies, but not a strong tech city. It feels like Portland's tech industry should be growing more, but seems to struggle when compared to Seattle or the bay area. For whatever reason Portland struggles growing large tech companies. Portland's bread and butter is the apparel industry (Nike, Adidas, under armour, Columbia etc....)and is the reason it maintains year round non stop service to Amsterdam and Tokyo.

As a PDX resident im hoping Portland continues to grow and maybe become a global city. I love seeing all the new construction and cranes that come with it (minus all the new homeless encampments being constructed). I hope PDX can bring us a baseball team. I feel like PDX compares much more favorably to other growing midsize cities such as Nashville, and austin, not Toledo or Cincinnati. PDX sees similar airlines and non stop destinations as both Nashville and Austin.
Also...Portland is a great place to do a staycation with all the food and drink options and the coast and mountains just 90 minutes away. But if a portlander does choose to travel further away...it has the nation's best airport with a great airline (Alaska) providing many nonstop destinations.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:52 am

jbpdx wrote:
Why does Frontier bother staying at PDX? They only operate one year-round daily destination (DEN) and two seasonal 3-day/wk (AUS, CLE). Their connections are pretty much horrible.

Right...?! I don't get it at all. Who the hell would want to take a PDX-DEN flight that leaves around 1:00 AM and arrives at DEN at 4:30 AM. It's totally beyond me. Three of their four departures out of PDX are red-eye flights (1 DEN, 1 AUS, 1 CLE), and their remaining flight to DEN is almost a red-eye, leaving PDX at 7:30 PM and arriving at DEN at 11:10 PM (which isn't even daily, BTW)...
 
jsta1981
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:23 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am

FA9295 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
Why does Frontier bother staying at PDX? They only operate one year-round daily destination (DEN) and two seasonal 3-day/wk (AUS, CLE). Their connections are pretty much horrible.

Right...?! I don't get it at all. Who the hell would want to take a PDX-DEN flight that leaves around 1:00 AM and arrives at DEN at 4:30 AM. It's totally beyond me. Three of their four departures out of PDX are red-eye flights (1 DEN, 1 AUS, 1 CLE), and their remaining flight to DEN is almost a red-eye, leaving PDX at 7:30 PM and arriving at DEN at 11:10 PM (which isn't even daily, BTW)...


You should use Alaska airlines flight to Austin next time you go to Austin instead of using frontiers flight. I always fly to Austin on Alaska and I fly my employees to Austin on Alaska. It is timed much better than frontiers flight. Frontiers flight is definitely more for the cost conscious flyer....which evidently there must be some of those here in PDX.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos