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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:10 pm

93Sierra wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW5227/history/20180825/1735Z/KDEN/KDEN

Smoke related?

Yes, almost definitely smoke related.
 
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bigfoot0503
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:25 pm

jbpdx wrote:
bigfoot0503 wrote:
I came across this positive write-up on anna.aero. Some interesting factual information...PDX has witnessed a 45% increase in passengers since 2010. Also a nice recap of the 2018 routes that have been added.
PDX is an amazing facility and we have much to look forward to over the next several years in terms of growth and facility expansion/rehab.

http://www.anna.aero/2018/08/22/routes- ... 0-million/



There haven’t been any new nonstops to fill unserved routes from PDX in 2018 and so far none have been announced for 2019. All new flights this year have been extra runs on already served routes.

PDX will likely just miss the 20 million passenger mark in 2018. Growth has stalled at ~5% annually. The only thing likely to stimulate growth will be making some seasonal routes year round (BWI, PHL, IAD, LHR) and new nonstops to unserved cities: *Domestic, to the eastern U.S. (e.g. BNA, FLL/MIA, MSY); International, to somewhere in Asia (e.g. ICN, TPE or HKG) and Paris, probably via foreign carriers (KE, CI, CX, DI?) on newer aircraft.

Unfortunately, interest in expansion at PDX by many airlines—especially Southwest, Frontier and JetBlue—has been less than lukewarm. Domestically, it appears to be all up to Alaska.

The Port of Portland doesn’t seem to be getting much accomplished. At the least, they should be working with airports that are interested in establishing nonstops to Portland (e.g. BNA, MSY, CVG, TPA), even if it means initially waiving some passenger and landing fees.

*People don’t like having to make connections especially transcon in the winter, which significantly depresses demand.


I will say that I have had an exceptionally positive email exchange recently with David Zielke, Port of Portland Director of Air Service Development. Through his prior time at Delta he has a great relationship with the gentleman I also emailed at the Cincinnati International Airport. I have no doubt that Mr. Zielke is working hard to bring new service or enhanced service to Portland based on my emails with him. The synergies that he built in his career prior with Delta Air Lines are still viable. While he didn't get into specifics and nor did I really press him, I do get the sense that there is alot of momentum going forward and the eternal optimist in me believes that our travel options at PDX will still see some exciting service additions in the near future.
 
PDX757
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:15 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Yes, before PDX sees any new transcon destinations, Alaska needs to figure out how to make ATL, BWI and PHL work as year-round service.
With that being said, I have a sneaking suspicion that these routes could very well indeed work just fine in the winter months. I think what's keeping Alaska from expanding to year-round service as well as to new destinations is the fact that they "need to protect" their ever so important SEA hub from Delta encroaching on their local traffic. They need all the resources that they can get to be directed at SEA, even if that means pulling (or significantly limiting) service at their other focus cities, such as PDX. This means that Alaska is trying to combine PDX traffic with SEA traffic in an effort to limit Delta's growing operations at SEA, which explains why Alaska has tons of daily PDX-SEA flights.

It sucks for the PDX customers, because that means that we have to constantly make a one-stop connections at SEA, or just fly a different airline altogether; and I really don't want to have to connect in SEA if I'm flying in the opposite direction. It doesn't make any sense at all to connect at a hub north of PDX when your final destination is south or east of PDX, and you ultimately end up backtracking on your route.

SFO (and LAX to a much lesser degree) are both also getting their resources pulled and some of the A320s that operated on much of the routes that Alaska recently pulled from SFO and LAX have all been relocated to SEA. Like I said, Alaska is taking all of the ammunition (any extra planes) that they can get their hands on and they are using it in their ongoing effort to defend their SEA home turf and fight off Delta.

As for United cutting PDX-IAD in January through the first few weeks of March, I think that's also a funneling traffic issue as well. During the slow travel season, I'm assuming that United wants any passengers trying to get to Dulles from PDX (and vice versa) to connect via SFO or DEN. During the slow travel months, the number of people traveling (specifically through PDX in particular) significantly drops off, so there's not enough passengers to warrant a daily nonstop PDX-IAD flight within those months. The loads on PDX-IAD, when it is operating, have almost always been around 90%+ and before they suspended the route last year, I honestly thought that they were at one point, considering adding a second daily flight on that route. It's a shame that they cannot make it work.


I agree with your assessment of what AS is doing regarding SEA fortifications. It would seem DLs hub there is beginning to mature, not sure how much they’ve effected AS yields there, but both carriers seem to be coexisting well. AS is never in a million years going to defeat DL at SEA. Treating PDX as essentially being within the catchment area of SEA isn’t fair to AS loyalists in our region. Maybe DL has put a huge dent in SEA traffic and all the transcons now rely on PDX traffic to continue operating? IMO AS would do well to not neglect PDX where they are a significant and mostly uncontested presence. Putting all their eggs in the SEA basket is a huge commitment to a scrum with DL, no? At what point do they consider the battle to be over? DL isn’t going to retreat from SEA with their tail between their legs, so they have to adapt and grow SEA as appropriate without a reliance on PDX to prop up loads.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:39 am

Interesting. Edmonton YEG is getting a nonstop to Miami starting this December.
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU; +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
pdxswa
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:40 am

Fresh out of the paint hangar
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:02 am

Thanks for doing the OAG listing for Oregon. I caught one you missed, it's hard to see well in the G4 listings for some reason:

G4 LAX-MFR MAR 0>0.4[0.5] APR 0>0.3[0.4
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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SANFan
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:22 am

RWA380 wrote:
Thanks for doing the OAG listing for Oregon. I caught one you missed, it's hard to see well in the G4 listings for some reason:
G4 LAX-MFR MAR 0>0.4[0.5] APR 0>0.3[0.4

Hey there B. Hope all is well with you up there in beautiful Portland. I, as usual, always enjoy reading your posts on this, and other threads.

Do you have any info on the announced SAN-EUG service from G4? The service was to begin in mid-May and I have no idea if it did or not; there is no service on the route now, and the G4 route map does not show the market served at all, seasonally or not. I just don't know if it's a thing or not!

It's a full time job for me to just try to keep track of G4 and F9 routes from SAN at any given time.... (Personally, hardly worth the effort.)

Appreciate any info you might have on this issue.

Keep 'em flying!

bb
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:26 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Interesting. Edmonton YEG is getting a nonstop to Miami starting this December.

It's probably on Sunwing, a canadian LLC, and as we know from Frontier (though not at PDX), they just love using their dartboard...
Last edited by FA9295 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:27 pm

And Alaska just added SEA-CMH, so we know that a schedule update is imminent. Hopefully PDX will get something new as well.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:47 pm

FA9295 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
Interesting. Edmonton YEG is getting a nonstop to Miami starting this December.

It's probably on Sunwing, a canadian LLC, and as we know from Frontier (though not at PDX), they just love using their dartboard...



It’s Flair Airlines.

Edmonton is less than half the size of metro Portland and YEG has less than half the annual passenger count as PDX.

With the lack of interest by almost all airlines, it looks like Portland will have to start its own airline to fill some of these unserved routes...
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU; +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:53 pm

jbpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
Interesting. Edmonton YEG is getting a nonstop to Miami starting this December.

It's probably on Sunwing, a canadian LLC, and as we know from Frontier (though not at PDX), they just love using their dartboard...



It’s Flair Airlines.

Edmonton is less than half the size of metro Portland and YEG has less than half the annual passenger count as PDX.

With the lack of interest by almost all airlines, it looks like Portland will have to start its own airline to fill some of these unserved routes...

Ah, Flair would have been my second guess...

The market for Canada-Southern US/Mexico is a huge one. There are a bunch of flights from small Canadian cities to markets in Mexico.

On that note, I would seriously encourage anyone with access to the Port of Portland to think about pitching MIA service to AA... Although, I think PDX-PHL would have to be served year-round before we'd see PDX-MIA.
 
 
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:15 am

FA9295 wrote:
And Alaska just added SEA-CMH, so we know that a schedule update is imminent. Hopefully, PDX will get something new as well.


Do you still think AS is still interested in adding service to the Portland market after the loss of DTW, STL,BLI, PSC and SUN? I for one would love for AS to refocus some attention to PDX, but it appears the AS route planners feel that all of our future need can be fulfilled via Seattle......
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:21 am

lhpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
And Alaska just added SEA-CMH, so we know that a schedule update is imminent. Hopefully, PDX will get something new as well.


Do you still think AS is still interested in adding service to the Portland market after the loss of DTW, STL,BLI, PSC and SUN? I for one would love for AS to refocus some attention to PDX, but it appears the AS route planners feel that all of our future need can be fulfilled via Seattle......

Some people on here that have close ties to Alaska keep on saying that PDX-IND is set for 2019, but given how they've treated PDX as of late, I'm skeptical of that happening anytime soon...
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:22 am

duplicate post; ignore
 
WolfPDX
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:45 am

A ton of fun visitors this month at KPDX. Another one to add to the list is a E-2 in new markings.
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:17 pm



A nice visitor at PDX!
 
Chugach
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:49 pm

lhpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
And Alaska just added SEA-CMH, so we know that a schedule update is imminent. Hopefully, PDX will get something new as well.


Do you still think AS is still interested in adding service to the Portland market after the loss of DTW, STL,BLI, PSC and SUN? I for one would love for AS to refocus some attention to PDX, but it appears the AS route planners feel that all of our future need can be fulfilled via Seattle......


I think AS is still interested in PDX, but resources are finite. They can likely make more money sending those planes someplace warm in the winter instead of beefing up Detroit service.

I am trying to think of the last time AS started a new domestic mainline destination prior to the VX acquisition that didn’t start in SEA. I honestly think it was ANC-ORD back in 2000...someone correct me if I’m wrong. The reality of it is that SEA is their global (such as it may be) hub. It is what it is. The best way to get more flights at PDX is to use what is already here as much as possible.
 
Chugach
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:59 pm

jbpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
Interesting. Edmonton YEG is getting a nonstop to Miami starting this December.

It's probably on Sunwing, a canadian LLC, and as we know from Frontier (though not at PDX), they just love using their dartboard...



It’s Flair Airlines.

Edmonton is less than half the size of metro Portland and YEG has less than half the annual passenger count as PDX.

With the lack of interest by almost all airlines, it looks like Portland will have to start its own airline to fill some of these unserved routes...


Canadian markets are very different from American markets. It’s not a good comparison. Nobody is flying PDX-South Florida because, for whatever reason, AS, B6, and AA (the most likely candidates for such a service) don’t think the numbers pencil out. If/when PDX-South Florida happens, I’d hope for AA to do PDX-MIA only for the plethora of connection opportunities.

There are enough Canadians snowbirding in Florida that Tim Hortons has franchises there and Canadian newspapers will be flown in. Some Canadian LCC starting a sun flight from Edmonton is hardly worth complaining about.
 
jsta1981
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:24 pm

FA9295 wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
And Alaska just added SEA-CMH, so we know that a schedule update is imminent. Hopefully, PDX will get something new as well.


Do you still think AS is still interested in adding service to the Portland market after the loss of DTW, STL,BLI, PSC and SUN? I for one would love for AS to refocus some attention to PDX, but it appears the AS route planners feel that all of our future need can be fulfilled via Seattle......

Some people on here that have close ties to Alaska keep on saying that PDX-IND is set for 2019, but given how they've treated PDX as of late, I'm skeptical of that happening anytime soon...


You are very dramatic. You do realize how great PDX has it with Alaska Airlines....don't you? Where to start...ok here goes....within the past few years AS has done the following at PDX:
Extended Kona to year round,
Extended lihue,
Started service to Newark,
Started service to JFK,
Restarted service to Orlando,
Added abq,
Made Bozeman year round,
Added a second daily flight to Bozeman in the summer,
Added daily flight to Fresno,
Added flights to Tuscon,
Made Austin mainline,
Added flights and larger planes to LAX area,
Added flights to Dallas,
Added flights to Reno,
Kept Omaha around seasonally,
Added Milwaukee seasonally,
Added Baltimore seasonally,
Added Philadelphia seasonally,
Added a second daily flight to Boston seasonally,
Added flights and larger planes to the Bay area.....

Alaska airlines has shown tons of love to PDX. So they canceled Bellingham and Pasco...big deal...those flights were used for connections anyway, not o&d...makes more sense to route those passengers thru SeaTac anyway. They took advantage of sun valley subsidies, but the subsidies ran out...makes sense to end that route. They attempted Detroit but lost to Delta, makes sense to cut a flight that isn't profitable...that's how competition works, although I bet they could make it work seasonally. Southwest won the St. Louis battle.

There really isn't much left for AS to add to PDX. I'm sure Denver would work. Philadelphia could probably work year round, but it says something when neither AA or AS seem interested in doing so. Maybe Nashville or Indianapolis or New Orleans seasonally?
Those routes would be too long and thin in the winter to be profitable.
Of course AS is gonna route passengers thru Seattle, it's their largest hub, PDX isn't their second largest hub and PDX lacks the business traffic that Seattle generates.
PDX will continue to gain flights from AS....but sometimes it takes time to grow into what it already has.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:39 pm

jsta1981 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
lhpdx wrote:

Do you still think AS is still interested in adding service to the Portland market after the loss of DTW, STL,BLI, PSC and SUN? I for one would love for AS to refocus some attention to PDX, but it appears the AS route planners feel that all of our future need can be fulfilled via Seattle......

Some people on here that have close ties to Alaska keep on saying that PDX-IND is set for 2019, but given how they've treated PDX as of late, I'm skeptical of that happening anytime soon...


You are very dramatic. You do realize how great PDX has it with Alaska Airlines....don't you? Where to start...ok here goes....within the past few years AS has done the following at PDX:
Extended Kona to year round,
Extended lihue,
Started service to Newark,
Started service to JFK,
Restarted service to Orlando,
Added abq,
Made Bozeman year round,
Added a second daily flight to Bozeman in the summer,
Added daily flight to Fresno,
Added flights to Tuscon,
Made Austin mainline,
Added flights and larger planes to LAX area,
Added flights to Dallas,
Added flights to Reno,
Kept Omaha around seasonally,
Added Milwaukee seasonally,
Added Baltimore seasonally,
Added Philadelphia seasonally,
Added a second daily flight to Boston seasonally,
Added flights and larger planes to the Bay area.....

Alaska airlines has shown tons of love to PDX. So they canceled Bellingham and Pasco...big deal...those flights were used for connections anyway, not o&d...makes more sense to route those passengers thru SeaTac anyway. They took advantage of sun valley subsidies, but the subsidies ran out...makes sense to end that route. They attempted Detroit but lost to Delta, makes sense to cut a flight that isn't profitable...that's how competition works, although I bet they could make it work seasonally. Southwest won the St. Louis battle.

There really isn't much left for AS to add to PDX. I'm sure Denver would work. Philadelphia could probably work year round, but it says something when neither AA or AS seem interested in doing so. Maybe Nashville or Indianapolis or New Orleans seasonally?
Those routes would be too long and thin in the winter to be profitable.
Of course AS is gonna route passengers thru Seattle, it's their largest hub, PDX isn't their second largest hub and PDX lacks the business traffic that Seattle generates.
PDX will continue to gain flights from AS....but sometimes it takes time to grow into what it already has.

Nobody said anything about Bellingham and Pasco. I expected those routes to get canceled eventually for this very reason. The only thing that is being mentioned here is that Alaska is very obviously using PDX passengers to fight off Delta at SEA, and because of this, the growth has somewhat stalled here within the last 12 months (give or take)...
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:13 pm

ANA787 wrote:


2,041,448 passengers in July, that must be a record for any month. +4.9% compared with July 2017. +4.6% year to date over 2017. On track for just missing 20 million for 2018.
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU; +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
jsta1981
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:57 pm

jbpdx wrote:
ANA787 wrote:


2,041,448 passengers in July, that must be a record for any month. +4.9% compared with July 2017. +4.6% year to date over 2017. On track for just missing 20 million for 2018.


Good job PDX!! Great growth. Let's keep it up.
More growth will lead to more airlines and destinations for us travelers who utilize PDX.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:21 pm

Anyone who may doubt AS's commitment to Portland is just seeing the current climate. Fuel is skyrocketing, routes that were viable on paper 6-12 months ago, may not seem so viable now. Yes, absolutely AS is defending it's turf in Seattle & rightfully so, they have half of the market-share. I think as AS digests VX & the full range of cuts are realized & the airline has cross trained cabin crew on the mixed fleet, we can expect AS to slowly add growth to appropriate markets.

AS is going to have to get creative, because as others have mentioned, there are a finite number of destinations that are viable from Seattle & even fewer from Portland. It should be expected as there are lots of top 20 markets that AS needs to tap from their CA destinations, before they can reach any level of real competition, like SF/LA-PHX. The markets are already saturated & would require a big fleet commitment, to offer fiscally irresponsible fares, for a considerable time. AKA a bloodbath with WN, & AA, that's just one of many markets they need to serve.

So yes, I do feel CA will be getting the lions share of the foreseeable attention from the emerald tower, so that AS can try & execute their plans for a more dominant presence in the California markets. But AS will always be on top of their game in Seattle, the market-share has remained the same since DL started their build up & their growth has come mostly at other carriers expense. But it's always AS's to lose.

Hawaii is a priority & I speculate we'll see another few adds before WN lands in the Aloha state, maybe PDX-LIH can go year round. Again WN is starting in SAN, SJC, OAK & SMF, all AS markets.

Portland seems to do best when it's more O/D traffic to support the flight. I 100% agree places like BLI & PSC were only timed for Hawaii connecting banks, if I lived in a small place like PSC, I'd 100% prefer to transit PDX vs SEA, I avoid SEA if at all possible, but if you fly AS, a little SEA will befall you.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:40 pm

Looking at the July statistics, 50% of all flights at PDX are Alaska, Horizon and Alaska/SkyWest. As long as other airlines consider PDX basically being Alaska’s turf, they will be hesitant to add at PDX. If Alaska hesitates on their commitment to Portland, it puts the airport and passengers in a catch-22, which is where we are at.
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU; +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
jsta1981
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:48 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Anyone who may doubt AS's commitment to Portland is just seeing the current climate. Fuel is skyrocketing, routes that were viable on paper 6-12 months ago, may not seem so viable now. Yes, absolutely AS is defending it's turf in Seattle & rightfully so, they have half of the market-share. I think as AS digests VX & the full range of cuts are realized & the airline has cross trained cabin crew on the mixed fleet, we can expect AS to slowly add growth to appropriate markets.

AS is going to have to get creative, because as others have mentioned, there are a finite number of destinations that are viable from Seattle & even fewer from Portland. It should be expected as there are lots of top 20 markets that AS needs to tap from their CA destinations, before they can reach any level of real competition, like SF/LA-PHX. The markets are already saturated & would require a big fleet commitment, to offer fiscally irresponsible fares, for a considerable time. AKA a bloodbath with WN, & AA, that's just one of many markets they need to serve.

So yes, I do feel CA will be getting the lions share of the foreseeable attention from the emerald tower, so that AS can try & execute their plans for a more dominant presence in the California markets. But AS will always be on top of their game in Seattle, the market-share has remained the same since DL started their build up & their growth has come mostly at other carriers expense. But it's always AS's to lose.

Hawaii is a priority & I speculate we'll see another few adds before WN lands in the Aloha state, maybe PDX-LIH can go year round. Again WN is starting in SAN, SJC, OAK & SMF, all AS markets.

Portland seems to do best when it's more O/D traffic to support the flight. I 100% agree places like BLI & PSC were only timed for Hawaii connecting banks, if I lived in a small place like PSC, I'd 100% prefer to transit PDX vs SEA, I avoid SEA if at all possible, but if you fly AS, a little SEA will befall you.


Very accurate post. There are others on this forum who seem to have very unrealistic views of PDX.
 
metaldirtnskin
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:55 pm

Here's the EUG numbers for July, for anyone interested. Around 14% YTD growth over 2017, not too shabby.

It's interesting that AS continues to cede most of this growth to others. Soon they will only serve PDX and SEA... the latter of which DL also flies, and DL is making an ever larger dent.

https://www.eugene-or.gov/DocumentCente ... ity-Report
 
BA
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:57 pm

Keep in mind that AS' hands are tied now in SEA, not just in terms of defending its turf against DL, but with all the investments they have committed to in SEA. The North Satellite expansion is VERY expensive considering it's only adding 8 gates and is all being done for Alaska Airlines.

They owe the Port of Seattle a substantial amount of money for the cost of the large Alaska Lounge that's being put up on 3rd floor of the North Satellite extension.

To not focus very heavily on SEA would not be a good use of that investment they're making.

This doesn't mean PDX won't get its share of growth. Portland, just like Seattle, is booming and as it continues to grow economically, so will air traffic including on Alaska Airlines.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:36 am

jsta1981 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Anyone who may doubt AS's commitment to Portland is just seeing the current climate. Fuel is skyrocketing, routes that were viable on paper 6-12 months ago, may not seem so viable now. Yes, absolutely AS is defending it's turf in Seattle & rightfully so, they have half of the market-share. I think as AS digests VX & the full range of cuts are realized & the airline has cross trained cabin crew on the mixed fleet, we can expect AS to slowly add growth to appropriate markets.

AS is going to have to get creative, because as others have mentioned, there are a finite number of destinations that are viable from Seattle & even fewer from Portland. It should be expected as there are lots of top 20 markets that AS needs to tap from their CA destinations, before they can reach any level of real competition, like SF/LA-PHX. The markets are already saturated & would require a big fleet commitment, to offer fiscally irresponsible fares, for a considerable time. AKA a bloodbath with WN, & AA, that's just one of many markets they need to serve.

So yes, I do feel CA will be getting the lions share of the foreseeable attention from the emerald tower, so that AS can try & execute their plans for a more dominant presence in the California markets. But AS will always be on top of their game in Seattle, the market-share has remained the same since DL started their build up & their growth has come mostly at other carriers expense. But it's always AS's to lose.

Hawaii is a priority & I speculate we'll see another few adds before WN lands in the Aloha state, maybe PDX-LIH can go year round. Again WN is starting in SAN, SJC, OAK & SMF, all AS markets.

Portland seems to do best when it's more O/D traffic to support the flight. I 100% agree places like BLI & PSC were only timed for Hawaii connecting banks, if I lived in a small place like PSC, I'd 100% prefer to transit PDX vs SEA, I avoid SEA if at all possible, but if you fly AS, a little SEA will befall you.


Very accurate post. There are others on this forum who seem to have very unrealistic views of PDX.


Thank You, there are some that see the stagnant past year & feel that it's an indicator. With this carrier I have a little insight, with several friends who work in different capacities within the company. I have been privy to announcements before they happen, I have NEVER used that to get the jump on an official announcement, no matter how tempting, especially when others argue with you here on A.net.

I can 100% guarantee any naysayers, AS is committed to remaining 50% of the lift from PDX for the future, they are a much larger entity than they were a few years ago. It is natural that they put energy into tapping into that massive California market they just bought into. There is no failure yet, it's all strategic cuts & adds. AAG is not taking this acquisition lightly & they will be cautious in their next moves.

Many folks do not see that JFK was a big deal to AS when they bought VX, I think that part has been downplayed, AS is wanting to grow their presence there, but as many carriers they are constrained. In my personal opinion only, SAN-JFK is just a matter of time.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
Grandforks12
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:34 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:53 am

Slightly off topic but, I'm only asking because I see a lot of AS guys on here with great info, any possible word on any service from SEA to FAR? Lots of rumors over the last few years but, haven't seen anything set in stone yet.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:01 am

Grandforks12 wrote:
Slightly off topic but, I'm only asking because I see a lot of AS guys on here with great info, any possible word on any service from SEA to FAR? Lots of rumors over the last few years but, haven't seen anything set in stone yet.


I've not heard anything but rumor too, EA CO AS would be the best person to answer this, but that member is never going to release anything that is in the works. I don't see much of a market, but who knows for sure, except the route planners at AAG.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:24 am

RWA380 wrote:
Grandforks12 wrote:
Slightly off topic but, I'm only asking because I see a lot of AS guys on here with great info, any possible word on any service from SEA to FAR? Lots of rumors over the last few years but, haven't seen anything set in stone yet.


I've not heard anything but rumor too, EA CO AS would be the best person to answer this, but that member is never going to release anything that is in the works. I don't see much of a market, but who knows for sure, except the route planners at AAG.

I've heard that SEA-ELP/TUL/DSM/MSN are all in the works, but other than that, the SEA market is kind of at it's peak right now...
Last edited by FA9295 on Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:26 am

On a separate note, Southwest's schedule update is tomorrow. I don't think we'll see anything at PDX this time around, but who knows...

What I'd really love for them to do is to try EUG and MFR markets, but that's very unrealistic right now...
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:12 am

jsta1981 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Anyone who may doubt AS's commitment to Portland is just seeing the current climate. Fuel is skyrocketing, routes that were viable on paper 6-12 months ago, may not seem so viable now. Yes, absolutely AS is defending it's turf in Seattle & rightfully so, they have half of the market-share. I think as AS digests VX & the full range of cuts are realized & the airline has cross trained cabin crew on the mixed fleet, we can expect AS to slowly add growth to appropriate markets.

AS is going to have to get creative, because as others have mentioned, there are a finite number of destinations that are viable from Seattle & even fewer from Portland. It should be expected as there are lots of top 20 markets that AS needs to tap from their CA destinations, before they can reach any level of real competition, like SF/LA-PHX. The markets are already saturated & would require a big fleet commitment, to offer fiscally irresponsible fares, for a considerable time. AKA a bloodbath with WN, & AA, that's just one of many markets they need to serve.

So yes, I do feel CA will be getting the lions share of the foreseeable attention from the emerald tower, so that AS can try & execute their plans for a more dominant presence in the California markets. But AS will always be on top of their game in Seattle, the market-share has remained the same since DL started their build up & their growth has come mostly at other carriers expense. But it's always AS's to lose.

Hawaii is a priority & I speculate we'll see another few adds before WN lands in the Aloha state, maybe PDX-LIH can go year round. Again WN is starting in SAN, SJC, OAK & SMF, all AS markets.

Portland seems to do best when it's more O/D traffic to support the flight. I 100% agree places like BLI & PSC were only timed for Hawaii connecting banks, if I lived in a small place like PSC, I'd 100% prefer to transit PDX vs SEA, I avoid SEA if at all possible, but if you fly AS, a little SEA will befall you.


Very accurate post. There are others on this forum who seem to have very unrealistic views of PDX.

They're not unrealistic. They're opinions. We're all allowed to have our own opinions and voice them on this site, whether or not you agree with them. Nobody here is being overly dramatic, but more or less just analyzing Alaska's strategies (from PDX and SEA) and comparing them to one another.
 
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bigfoot0503
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:39 pm

FA9295 wrote:
jsta1981 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Anyone who may doubt AS's commitment to Portland is just seeing the current climate. Fuel is skyrocketing, routes that were viable on paper 6-12 months ago, may not seem so viable now. Yes, absolutely AS is defending it's turf in Seattle & rightfully so, they have half of the market-share. I think as AS digests VX & the full range of cuts are realized & the airline has cross trained cabin crew on the mixed fleet, we can expect AS to slowly add growth to appropriate markets.

AS is going to have to get creative, because as others have mentioned, there are a finite number of destinations that are viable from Seattle & even fewer from Portland. It should be expected as there are lots of top 20 markets that AS needs to tap from their CA destinations, before they can reach any level of real competition, like SF/LA-PHX. The markets are already saturated & would require a big fleet commitment, to offer fiscally irresponsible fares, for a considerable time. AKA a bloodbath with WN, & AA, that's just one of many markets they need to serve.

So yes, I do feel CA will be getting the lions share of the foreseeable attention from the emerald tower, so that AS can try & execute their plans for a more dominant presence in the California markets. But AS will always be on top of their game in Seattle, the market-share has remained the same since DL started their build up & their growth has come mostly at other carriers expense. But it's always AS's to lose.

Hawaii is a priority & I speculate we'll see another few adds before WN lands in the Aloha state, maybe PDX-LIH can go year round. Again WN is starting in SAN, SJC, OAK & SMF, all AS markets.

Portland seems to do best when it's more O/D traffic to support the flight. I 100% agree places like BLI & PSC were only timed for Hawaii connecting banks, if I lived in a small place like PSC, I'd 100% prefer to transit PDX vs SEA, I avoid SEA if at all possible, but if you fly AS, a little SEA will befall you.


Very accurate post. There are others on this forum who seem to have very unrealistic views of PDX.

They're not unrealistic. They're opinions. We're all allowed to have our own opinions and voice them on this site, whether or not you agree with them. Nobody here is being overly dramatic, but more or less just analyzing Alaska's strategies (from PDX and SEA) and comparing them to one another.


Very well stated! Thank you.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:13 pm

jsta1981 wrote:
Added daily flight to Fresno


Flights*

AS will be going to 2X per day FAT-PDX starting in November.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:23 pm

flyfresno wrote:
jsta1981 wrote:
Added daily flight to Fresno


Flights*

AS will be going to 2X per day FAT-PDX starting in November.


Nice add..Is that just a seasonal increase or year round?
 
pdxav8r
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:10 pm

Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?
 
BA
Posts: 10472
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:16 pm

pdxav8r wrote:
Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?


Spring 2020.

https://katu.com/news/local/pdx-preview ... n-20-years
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
lhpdx
Posts: 884
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:22 pm

pdxav8r wrote:
Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?



https://www.aci-na.org/sites/default/fi ... es-pdx.pdf
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:13 am

lhpdx wrote:
pdxav8r wrote:
Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?



https://www.aci-na.org/sites/default/fi ... es-pdx.pdf

Very interesting stats in that link. I've put the ones in bold that I think are the most interesting ones...

• 19 million annual passengers
4% international passengers
• 17 commercial carriers
• 64 domestic nonstop destinations
• 12 international nonstop destinations
• Alaska 38%, Southwest 18%, Delta 12%
66% leisure, 26% business
53% local, 47% non-local
85% O&D, 15% connecting
• 57% female, 43% male
• $93K average household income

* 4% doesn't seem like a lot for all of the flights that we have (NRT, MEX, GDL, AMS, LHR, KEF, FRA, YVR, YYC, YYZ). 4% of all PDX traffic is only allocated to those destinations...
* 66% leisure traffic just proves the lack of a business-oriented market that PDX is. Hopefully this will improve in the future, though.
* I'm assuming that local/non-local means people living within the Portland metropolitan area (53%) and 47% living further away.
* 85% is a ton of O&D traffic, which isn't surprising since we don't have a legacy carrier hub at PDX for international connections. Although, I've noticed that Alaska likes to tout PDX as a central connecting point to Alaska and Hawaii. Meaning, that flights such as OMA, PHL and MKE are timed to arrive at PDX in the morning hours in order for passengers to connect onward to Alaska and Hawaii...
 
midway7
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:24 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:44 am

pdxav8r wrote:
Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?


Hi everyone. I am new to this thread as we just moved to PDX this summer.

Can someone fill me in on the gate swap. I have flown SWA into PDX a few times this summer and really like where they are at on the C Concourse. Great spotting of all the Alaska planes and that great fish place (I feel bad I cannot remember the name) in the food court near C9 I believe. Nothing like great halibut and good spotting at 6 AM! PDX is awesome.

If someone could fill me in on this, I would like to keep up with what is going on.

Midway 7
 
jbpdx
Posts: 742
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:17 pm

FA9295 wrote:
* 66% leisure traffic just proves the lack of a business-oriented market that PDX is. Hopefully this will improve in the future.


Without more nonstops especially to key unserved cities east of the Mississippi it’s doubtful. Business travelers don’t like having to take 6-8 hour domestic trips with connections: board twice, deplane twice, and possibly miss a connection and be stranded in an airport because of bad weather or mechanical problems. (Hello Nashville, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Tampa, et al.)

For having such a high percentage of leisure travelers it’s odd that Frontier and Spirit have practically no presence at PDX.
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU; +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:38 pm

midway7 wrote:
pdxav8r wrote:
Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?


Hi everyone. I am new to this thread as we just moved to PDX this summer.

Can someone fill me in on the gate swap. I have flown SWA into PDX a few times this summer and really like where they are at on the C Concourse. Great spotting of all the Alaska planes and that great fish place (I feel bad I cannot remember the name) in the food court near C9 I believe. Nothing like great halibut and good spotting at 6 AM! PDX is awesome.

If someone could fill me in on this, I would like to keep up with what is going on.

Midway 7

Welcome to Portland!

I'm kind of confused with the airline swap as well. I think United is moving to concourse C, while Alaska/Horizon are both moving to concourse E.

Concourse A (where most Horizon flights are now) will eventually get demolished, and neighboring concourse B will be expanded. That, along with the expansion of concourse E should add quite a few more gates at PDX. I heard that Southwest could be moving to concourse E instead, but I think plans have changed since then.

The seafood place that you're referring to is probably "Mo's": https://www.flypdx.com/PDX/Shops-Dining#/id/62
 
AS737MAX
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:48 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:48 pm

I might be wrong, and I know the swap changed once in the time since it was announced, but isn't it WN to E and UA to C? A still gets torn down and B gets extended though.

FA9295 wrote:
midway7 wrote:
pdxav8r wrote:
Anyone have an update on when the E-concourse extension and gate swap is slated to be completed?


Hi everyone. I am new to this thread as we just moved to PDX this summer.

Can someone fill me in on the gate swap. I have flown SWA into PDX a few times this summer and really like where they are at on the C Concourse. Great spotting of all the Alaska planes and that great fish place (I feel bad I cannot remember the name) in the food court near C9 I believe. Nothing like great halibut and good spotting at 6 AM! PDX is awesome.

If someone could fill me in on this, I would like to keep up with what is going on.

Midway 7

Welcome to Portland!

I'm kind of confused with the airline swap as well. I think United is moving to concourse C, while Alaska/Horizon are both moving to concourse E.

Concourse A (where most Horizon flights are now) will eventually get demolished, and neighboring concourse B will be expanded. That, along with the expansion of concourse E should add quite a few more gates at PDX. I heard that Southwest could be moving to concourse E instead, but I think plans have changed since then.

The seafood place that you're referring to is probably "Mo's": https://www.flypdx.com/PDX/Shops-Dining#/id/62
 
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ramprat74
Posts: 1354
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:49 pm

United is staying in the E concourse, gates E1-E5. Southwest will have E6-E-11. Alaska and Horizon will be in the B and C concourses.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:50 pm

AS737MAX wrote:
I might be wrong, and I know the swap changed once in the time since it was announced, but isn't it WN to E and UA to C? A still gets torn down and B gets extended though.

FA9295 wrote:
midway7 wrote:

Hi everyone. I am new to this thread as we just moved to PDX this summer.

Can someone fill me in on the gate swap. I have flown SWA into PDX a few times this summer and really like where they are at on the C Concourse. Great spotting of all the Alaska planes and that great fish place (I feel bad I cannot remember the name) in the food court near C9 I believe. Nothing like great halibut and good spotting at 6 AM! PDX is awesome.

If someone could fill me in on this, I would like to keep up with what is going on.

Midway 7

Welcome to Portland!

I'm kind of confused with the airline swap as well. I think United is moving to concourse C, while Alaska/Horizon are both moving to concourse E.

Concourse A (where most Horizon flights are now) will eventually get demolished, and neighboring concourse B will be expanded. That, along with the expansion of concourse E should add quite a few more gates at PDX. I heard that Southwest could be moving to concourse E instead, but I think plans have changed since then.

The seafood place that you're referring to is probably "Mo's": https://www.flypdx.com/PDX/Shops-Dining#/id/62

That's what I thought at first, but some of the new gates at concourse E are going to be regional gates, which 737's could not fit in but dash-8 prop-jets could.
 
AS737MAX
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:48 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:59 pm

That makes sense. @ramprat74 Thanks. Will certainly make E a lot more lively than it ever has been.


FA9295 wrote:
AS737MAX wrote:
I might be wrong, and I know the swap changed once in the time since it was announced, but isn't it WN to E and UA to C? A still gets torn down and B gets extended though.

FA9295 wrote:
Welcome to Portland!

I'm kind of confused with the airline swap as well. I think United is moving to concourse C, while Alaska/Horizon are both moving to concourse E.

Concourse A (where most Horizon flights are now) will eventually get demolished, and neighboring concourse B will be expanded. That, along with the expansion of concourse E should add quite a few more gates at PDX. I heard that Southwest could be moving to concourse E instead, but I think plans have changed since then.

The seafood place that you're referring to is probably "Mo's": https://www.flypdx.com/PDX/Shops-Dining#/id/62

That's what I thought at first, but some of the new gates at concourse E are going to be regional gates, which 737's could not fit in but dash-8 prop-jets could.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:14 pm

lhpdx wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
jsta1981 wrote:
Added daily flight to Fresno


Flights*

AS will be going to 2X per day FAT-PDX starting in November.


Nice add..Is that just a seasonal increase or year round?


Right now, only goes through December, so we will see. Sort of strange that both PDX-FAT flights leave an hour apart. Seems like they should space them out a bit more...
 
Chugach
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:38 pm

jbpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
* 66% leisure traffic just proves the lack of a business-oriented market that PDX is. Hopefully this will improve in the future.


Without more nonstops especially to key unserved cities east of the Mississippi it’s doubtful. Business travelers don’t like having to take 6-8 hour domestic trips with connections: board twice, deplane twice, and possibly miss a connection and be stranded in an airport because of bad weather or mechanical problems. (Hello Nashville, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Tampa, et al.)

For having such a high percentage of leisure travelers it’s odd that Frontier and Spirit have practically no presence at PDX.


As a frequent business traveler (75K on Alaska, probably will also hit silver on UA this year), I can say this pretty much isn’t true. If you have to travel for business, you have to travel for business. Nonstops are fantastic and I use them whenever I can (the only reason I am close to status on UA is because I go to Houston a lot, and UA flies PDX-IAH nonstop), but if I have to go to Nashville or wherever else that isn’t served nonstop, I still have to go.

The reason PDX is so oriented toward leisure traffic is because Oregon is, for the most part, a small employer state and smaller employers don’t typically have a lot of business travel needs. All the hipsters that have shown up in Portland don’t do much for filling a premium cabin on an airplane. A huge reason Seattle has so much more service than Portland does, aside from the population disparity, is the makeup of employers compared to Portland. Seattle is dominated by larger employers (in large part because WA is much more business friendly than OR is, but that’s another discussion), and Portland isn’t. But Portland and Oregon are continuing to grow, and the air service levels are night and day compared to what they were a decade ago, which is a good thing (not just at PDX, but EUG, MFR, and RDM have all grown significantly, too)

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