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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:22 am

flyoregon wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
Why is Portland losing so many flights?


Because the PoP is more concerned about selling property and building pointless box warehouses to sit empty than to generate economic driving options for business travel. Portland is a great city, I’ve been here all of my life, but for business, it’s not that great. This place is so anti growth it’s insane.

I hate to use the "close in proximity to Seattle" argument, but I guess Alaska and Delta both figure that taking a prop-jet up to Seattle is not too far out of the way for us Portlanders. That strategy is obviously working very well for both of them. There's a reason that Alaska has several dozen Q400s and E75s flying PDX-SEA. But if I'm traveling anywhere south of Portland, connecting in Seattle is very counterintuitive for us, and we only just end up back-tracking as a result.

As for Southwest, it seems like they're only interested in PDX as a gateway to California. If Alaska significantly increased their frequencies on routes like PDX-OAK, SMF, LAX, SJC and SAN, then they would pretty much just pull out of PDX entirely.

Losing PDX-MEX really sucks, as this was the one route that the PoP was actually pushing for (to my knowledge). I would have figured that the PoP would set in a financial incentive for them to keep flying the route, but they don't seem to be interested in negotiating with the airlines at all. They should make a pitch to Volaris to add the route. Their PDX-GDL flight has clearly been doing very well.
 
flyoregon
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:28 am

FA9295 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
Why is Portland losing so many flights?


Because the PoP is more concerned about selling property and building pointless box warehouses to sit empty than to generate economic driving options for business travel. Portland is a great city, I’ve been here all of my life, but for business, it’s not that great. This place is so anti growth it’s insane.

I hate to use the "close in proximity to Seattle" argument, but I guess Alaska and Delta both figure that taking a prop-jet up to Seattle is not too far out of the way for us Portlanders. That strategy is obviously working very well for both of them. There's a reason that Alaska has several dozen Q400s and E75s flying PDX-SEA. But if I'm traveling anywhere south of Portland, connecting in Seattle is very counterintuitive for us, and we only just end up back-tracking as a result.

As for Southwest, it seems like they're only interested in PDX as a gateway to California. If Alaska significantly increased their frequencies on routes like PDX-OAK, SMF, LAX, SJC and SAN, then they would pretty much just pull out of PDX entirely.

Losing PDX-MEX really sucks, as this was the one route that the PoP was actually pushing for (to my knowledge). I would have figured that the PoP would set in a financial incentive for them to keep flying the route, but they don't seem to be interested in negotiating with the airlines at all. They should make a pitch to Volaris to add the route. Their PDX-GDL flight has clearly been doing very well.


what’s the point of having the air service development department at the Port? For the last 12 months they have SunCountry as the pat on their back?? I mean, it’s cool, but it’s not totally monumental. For the year, they seem to have lost more than they’ve gained.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:38 pm

OAG 11/18/2018:

*AS PAE-PDX FEB 0>1.3[0] MAR 0>4[0] APR 0>4[0] MAY 0>4[0] JUN 0>4[0] JUL 0>4[0] AUG 0>4[0]
NK LAS-PDX MAY 0.1>3[2] JUN 0>3[2] JUL 0>3[2] AUG 0>3[2]
SY LAS-PDX MAY 0>0.6[0]
SY MSP-PDX MAY 0>0.7[0.9]
SY PDX-SFO MAY 0>0.3[0]
WN BWI-PDX JUN 0>0.2[0.8] JUL 0>0.3[1.0]
WN DEN-PDX JUN 1.2>5[4] JUL 0>5[4] AUG 0>0.8[4]
WN LAS-PDX JUN 1.1>4[4] AUG 0>0.7[4]
WN LAX-PDX JUN 0.6>2[1.8] JUL 0>2[1.9] AUG 0>0.4[3]
WN MDW-PDX JUN 0.4>2[3] JUL 0>2[3] AUG 0>0.4[3]
WN OAK-PDX JUN 1.5>6[6] AUG 0>0.9[6]
WN PDX-PHX JUN 0.8>4[4] AUG 0>0.6[3]
WN PDX-SAN JUN 0.6>3[3] AUG 0>0.4[3]
WN PDX-SJC JUN 1.4>6[5] JUL 0>6[5] AUG 0>0.9[5]
WN PDX-SMF JUN 1.2>5[5] AUG 0>0.7[5]

G4 EUG-LAS MAY 0.1>0.4[0.4] JUL 0>0.5[0.4]

G4 LAS-MFR MAY 0.1>0.4[0.3] JUN 0>0.4[0.3] AUG 0>0.2[0.3]
G4 LAX-MFR JUN 0>0.5[0.4] AUG 0>0.3[0.4]
UA MFR-SFO APR 5>4[4] JUN 4>3[5] JUL 4>3[5] AUG 4>3[5]
- This MFR-SFO reduction (along with a bunch of other UA changes this week) appears to be a misfile, per discussion at the OAG thread

- Also, NK loaded their summer schedule, and PDX-ORD is not on there, so that route was likely cut. FWIW, SEA-ORD also appears to be cut as well.
- What's the point of WN flying PDX-BWI at all now? Their schedule is a complete joke now.
 
BlatantEcho
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:00 pm

Just did a pdx-ams, nce-ams-pdx route. (Still on the plane waiting to de-board).
I tell you, this year round daily service is just a lifesaver.

Yes, I’d love to have year round to LHR too... but on days like today... I count my blessings we’ve got what we got.
 
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bigfoot0503
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:32 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
Just did a pdx-ams, nce-ams-pdx route. (Still on the plane waiting to de-board).
I tell you, this year round daily service is just a lifesaver.

Yes, I’d love to have year round to LHR too... but on days like today... I count my blessings we’ve got what we got.


BlatantEcho...I will second your sentiments as well! I am doing another marathon Asia trip next month and I am so thankful that Delta has maintained our PDX-Asia link...doesn't bother me a bit to fly into/thru Tokyo Narita.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:55 am

bigfoot0503 wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
Just did a pdx-ams, nce-ams-pdx route. (Still on the plane waiting to de-board).
I tell you, this year round daily service is just a lifesaver.

Yes, I’d love to have year round to LHR too... but on days like today... I count my blessings we’ve got what we got.


BlatantEcho...I will second your sentiments as well! I am doing another marathon Asia trip next month and I am so thankful that Delta has maintained our PDX-Asia link...doesn't bother me a bit to fly into/thru Tokyo Narita.

I completely agree. Considering that PDX isn't a major connecting hub for Delta, I think PDX's long-haul network is excellent, and I think we're quite lucky to have the flights that we do have. With AMS using the A333 through October, and LHR going daily next summer season, I have high hopes for what the future brings us.

ICN and CDG would be great adds as well, but as of right now, NRT and AMS serve as sufficient gateways for PDX travelers to Asia and Europe. If Delta's daily PDX-LHR schedule is successful next summer, then perhaps we may see it go year-round in the future, or at least the seasonal schedule being significantly extended throughout the year.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:12 am

Now I wish we had the same momentum going for inter-North America flights. MCO was a great add. Just used the flight around a month ago, and the plane was packed full in both directions. Sun Country's expansion at PDX has also been great (although I'm not too confident that their MCO flight will be resuming next year--I would love to be proven wrong there).

However, losing MEX, FAI, reductions in YYC, YVR, and AS ending STL and DTW, suspension in UA's IAD flight, as well as seasonal downgrades on several AS routes, and as of recently, Southwest isn't resuming most of it's seasonal PDX routes next year (ABQ, AUS and HOU were all recently axed) and downgrade of Southwest's BWI flight to just operating on Saturdays and Sundays in only June and July, NK dropping LAX, DFW, SAN, DTW, and now apparently ORD as well, F9 dropping PHX, ORD, STL and I'm not too sure if AUS and CLE are resuming next year either. The just list goes on and on.

Some might argue that I'm overshadowing the recent AS adds, such as extra flights to FAT, BUR, BOS, ORD and of course, PAE (there may be some other flights that I'm forgetting here), as well as more frequencies in Volaris' GDL flights--but with that being said, the overall trend still doesn't look too great right now for inner-North America routes, and overall, we've definitely been losing more then we've been gaining as a whole.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:10 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Now I wish we had the same momentum going for inter-North America flights. MCO was a great add. Just used the flight around a month ago, and the plane was packed full in both directions. Sun Country's expansion at PDX has also been great (although I'm not too confident that their MCO flight will be resuming next year--I would love to be proven wrong there).

However, losing MEX, FAI, reductions in YYC, YVR, and AS ending STL and DTW, suspension in UA's IAD flight, as well as seasonal downgrades on several AS routes, and as of recently, Southwest isn't resuming most of it's seasonal PDX routes next year (ABQ, AUS and HOU were all recently axed) and downgrade of Southwest's BWI flight to just operating on Saturdays and Sundays in only June and July, NK dropping LAX, DFW, SAN, DTW, and now apparently ORD as well, F9 dropping PHX, ORD, STL and I'm not too sure if AUS and CLE are resuming next year either. The just list goes on and on.

Some might argue that I'm overshadowing the recent AS adds, such as extra flights to FAT, BUR, BOS, ORD and of course, PAE (there may be some other flights that I'm forgetting here), as well as more frequencies in Volaris' GDL flights--but with that being said, the overall trend still doesn't look too great right now for inner-North America routes, and overall, we've definitely been losing more then we've been gaining as a whole.


I really wonder why all this is happening. I'm relocating to PDX next year and news like this has me worried.
 
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bigfoot0503
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:40 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Now I wish we had the same momentum going for inter-North America flights. MCO was a great add. Just used the flight around a month ago, and the plane was packed full in both directions. Sun Country's expansion at PDX has also been great (although I'm not too confident that their MCO flight will be resuming next year--I would love to be proven wrong there).

However, losing MEX, FAI, reductions in YYC, YVR, and AS ending STL and DTW, suspension in UA's IAD flight, as well as seasonal downgrades on several AS routes, and as of recently, Southwest isn't resuming most of it's seasonal PDX routes next year (ABQ, AUS and HOU were all recently axed) and downgrade of Southwest's BWI flight to just operating on Saturdays and Sundays in only June and July, NK dropping LAX, DFW, SAN, DTW, and now apparently ORD as well, F9 dropping PHX, ORD, STL and I'm not too sure if AUS and CLE are resuming next year either. The just list goes on and on.

Some might argue that I'm overshadowing the recent AS adds, such as extra flights to FAT, BUR, BOS, ORD and of course, PAE (there may be some other flights that I'm forgetting here), as well as more frequencies in Volaris' GDL flights--but with that being said, the overall trend still doesn't look too great right now for inner-North America routes, and overall, we've definitely been losing more then we've been gaining as a whole.


With regard to the cancellation of PDX-MEX and the exit of Aeromexico. This move was clearly based on the fact that Aeromexico is struggling financially. Just read recently that they are now looking at employee layoffs as well. This exit by them was also on the heels of their crash at Durango, Mexico in July 2018. They were clearly already struggling to be viable on numerous routes. It eases the pain to know that PDX was not the only North American city that Aeromexico is withdrawing service from; among the cities losing Mexico City service are also Boston and Washington Dulles. San Jose, CA is losing Guadalajara flights and Los Angeles is losing a Monterrey, Mexico flight.

I wouldn't be too concerned with some of the losses that PDX has experienced. Overall we still have a highly viable air market here in Portland. Certainly with the huge investment in facility upgrades and additions currently underway or soon to start there is every indication that growth in the future will be based on airlines and airport tenants who are committed to PDX and the passengers that use the facilities.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:29 pm

bigfoot0503 wrote:
It eases the pain to know that PDX was not the only North American city that Aeromexico is withdrawing service from; among the cities losing Mexico City service are also Boston and Washington Dulles. San Jose, CA is losing Guadalajara flights and Los Angeles is losing a Monterrey, Mexico flight.

True, but BOS and IAD already have other MEX flights, whereas Aeromexico's flight PDX-MEX flight was the only flight to Mexico City from Portland. Granted, Boston and Washington D.C. are much larger markets than Portland in general, but still...

I'm hoping that Volaris will consider starting PDX-MEX, however, given their central focus at GDL, I highly doubt that we'll see it from them anytime soon...
 
bobsmith99
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:58 pm

I get that SEA is building up rapidly and has seen impressive new gains the past few years. However, if Delta and Alaska's long term play is to pull back at Portland and funnel passengers through SEA, it will open an opportunity for someone like American to build up a greater presence. PDX is a proven market that has shown it can support its own flights and traveling through SEA less than ideal- perhaps their facilities will improve with the money they are spending on it. Granted I'm a sample size of one, but in 17 years of living in PDX, I have flown through SEA maybe 3 times and driven up to fly out of Seattle 2 times.
 
jsta1981
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:04 pm

Aloha717200 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Now I wish we had the same momentum going for inter-North America flights. MCO was a great add. Just used the flight around a month ago, and the plane was packed full in both directions. Sun Country's expansion at PDX has also been great (although I'm not too confident that their MCO flight will be resuming next year--I would love to be proven wrong there).

However, losing MEX, FAI, reductions in YYC, YVR, and AS ending STL and DTW, suspension in UA's IAD flight, as well as seasonal downgrades on several AS routes, and as of recently, Southwest isn't resuming most of it's seasonal PDX routes next year (ABQ, AUS and HOU were all recently axed) and downgrade of Southwest's BWI flight to just operating on Saturdays and Sundays in only June and July, NK dropping LAX, DFW, SAN, DTW, and now apparently ORD as well, F9 dropping PHX, ORD, STL and I'm not too sure if AUS and CLE are resuming next year either. The just list goes on and on.

Some might argue that I'm overshadowing the recent AS adds, such as extra flights to FAT, BUR, BOS, ORD and of course, PAE (there may be some other flights that I'm forgetting here), as well as more frequencies in Volaris' GDL flights--but with that being said, the overall trend still doesn't look too great right now for inner-North America routes, and overall, we've definitely been losing more then we've been gaining as a whole.


I really wonder why all this is happening. I'm relocating to PDX next year and news like this has me worried.



lol....nothing to see here. No need to be worried or dramatic. PDX lost a few long hanging fruit type routes.....summer seasonal, and ULCC flights. No big deal. ULCC's struggle in PDX. No nonstop destinations lost....other than Mexico City (which I'll admit does hurt a little bit as I've used that flight to vacation in Mexico a few times in the past year, and my staff have used it to travel to Panama City). Airlines are constantly cutting routes that aren't profitable or right sizing routes, like what AS is doing with MCI and Omaha. The fact that ULCC's don't succeed here and that Southwest is right-sizing is a testament to how strong AS is here in PDX. Overall, growth is very positive here at PDX. AS is as strong as ever. AS continues to grow year over year here at PDX. AS continues to fly us Portlanders to destinations we want to fly to, while also providing us with easy an connection in Seattle to other destinations that PDX just doesn't have the market to support. The lack of new nonstop destinations in the past year or 2 for PDX is also a testament to how much AS has grown here. They've paired PDX with almost every airport they can do profitably from PDX. They even went up against Delta to try Detroit. Not really any cities left for AS to try at this moment from PDX until the local business climate improves and we get more population growth.
The fact that ULCC's don't succeed here and that Southwest is right-sizing is a testament to how strong AS is here in PDX.
Good luck on your move to the Portland area. I hope you love it. I sure do. Please excuse our homeless problem and extremely liberal policies.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:24 pm

bobsmith99 wrote:
I get that SEA is building up rapidly and has seen impressive new gains the past few years. However, if Delta and Alaska's long term play is to pull back at Portland and funnel passengers through SEA, it will open an opportunity for someone like American to build up a greater presence. PDX is a proven market that has shown it can support its own flights and traveling through SEA less than ideal- perhaps their facilities will improve with the money they are spending on it. Granted I'm a sample size of one, but in 17 years of living in PDX, I have flown through SEA maybe 3 times and driven up to fly out of Seattle 2 times.

American is never going to do that. They can't even fly to PHL year-round, let alone MIA + JFK at all.
Last edited by FA9295 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:28 pm

jsta1981 wrote:
Aloha717200 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Now I wish we had the same momentum going for inter-North America flights. MCO was a great add. Just used the flight around a month ago, and the plane was packed full in both directions. Sun Country's expansion at PDX has also been great (although I'm not too confident that their MCO flight will be resuming next year--I would love to be proven wrong there).

However, losing MEX, FAI, reductions in YYC, YVR, and AS ending STL and DTW, suspension in UA's IAD flight, as well as seasonal downgrades on several AS routes, and as of recently, Southwest isn't resuming most of it's seasonal PDX routes next year (ABQ, AUS and HOU were all recently axed) and downgrade of Southwest's BWI flight to just operating on Saturdays and Sundays in only June and July, NK dropping LAX, DFW, SAN, DTW, and now apparently ORD as well, F9 dropping PHX, ORD, STL and I'm not too sure if AUS and CLE are resuming next year either. The just list goes on and on.

Some might argue that I'm overshadowing the recent AS adds, such as extra flights to FAT, BUR, BOS, ORD and of course, PAE (there may be some other flights that I'm forgetting here), as well as more frequencies in Volaris' GDL flights--but with that being said, the overall trend still doesn't look too great right now for inner-North America routes, and overall, we've definitely been losing more then we've been gaining as a whole.


I really wonder why all this is happening. I'm relocating to PDX next year and news like this has me worried.


The lack of new nonstop destinations in the past year or 2 for PDX is also a testament to how much AS has grown here.

this sentence doesn't even make any sense... :roll:

Not saying that AS hasn't grown at PDX; they certainly have--but the late trend appears to be cutting thinner routes and adding more frequencies to existing routes. If that makes the airline more money, in the long run, then so be it.
 
lhpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 pm

I noticed today there are three Amazon cargo flights headed to PDX..........
 
bobsmith99
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:37 pm

FA9295 wrote:
bobsmith99 wrote:
I get that SEA is building up rapidly and has seen impressive new gains the past few years. However, if Delta and Alaska's long term play is to pull back at Portland and funnel passengers through SEA, it will open an opportunity for someone like American to build up a greater presence. PDX is a proven market that has shown it can support its own flights and traveling through SEA less than ideal- perhaps their facilities will improve with the money they are spending on it. Granted I'm a sample size of one, but in 17 years of living in PDX, I have flown through SEA maybe 3 times and driven up to fly out of Seattle 2 times.

American is never going to do that. They can't even fly to PHL year-round, let alone MIA + JFK at all.



I agree under the current situation no way. I was implying if the grand plan was to funnel more passengers through Seattle which implies more cuts to nonstop service from PDX it would open an opportunity. Obviously American would not expand now.
 
pnwpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:23 pm

It looks like SEA is experiencing fog delays. We are getting some of their diversions at PDX and likely more to come.
Next Flight:
PDX-SEA-PHX-LAX-PDX on DL
 
AS737MAX
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:02 pm

pnwpdx wrote:
It looks like SEA is experiencing fog delays. We are getting some of their diversions at PDX and likely more to come.


Was just about to post about it here. Lots of smaller jets, but we did get DL128 from PEK: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL128
 
pdxav8r
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:45 pm

Nice picture history of PDX from O-live today. Definitely worth a look. Can't believe that I can remember some of the old terminal. https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/life-an ... how-p.html.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:56 pm

pdxav8r wrote:
Nice picture history of PDX from O-live today. Definitely worth a look. Can't believe that I can remember some of the old terminal. https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/life-an ... how-p.html.


Thanks for that share, Wow the milk run routes are awesome. I remember in the 60's & 70's they had several runs that had multiple stops in Oregon.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
pdxav8r
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:54 am

RWA380 wrote:
pdxav8r wrote:
Nice picture history of PDX from O-live today. Definitely worth a look. Can't believe that I can remember some of the old terminal. https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/life-an ... how-p.html.


Thanks for that share, Wow the milk run routes are awesome. I remember in the 60's & 70's they had several runs that had multiple stops in Oregon.


Yeah, I especially remember the Hughes Airwest timetables that show 'four-stop', 'five-stop' thru-plane service, up and down the coast. That would have been fun to do those milk run routes.
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:22 am

Always nice to see another 777 at PDX, and in rare beautiful fall weather in the Pacific Northwest.
 
jetboy319
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:34 am

I don't know about the rest of you, but one of the reasons I've refrained from posting here is that there is so much unnecessary negative drama surrounding what's happening at PDX. Perhaps it's because I may be a bit older than some, but overall, PDX is a much more robust airport than it was even a mere 10 years ago. Sure, Alaska has cut some flights/routes. But they have also added as well. They dominate PDX as an extremely profitable hub, and won't be going anywhere. I moved here in the early 2000s, and I can honestly say that PDX offers a more diverse selection of nonstop routes then when I first moved here 18 years ago. It get's so old hearing the complaints/comparisons about SEA versus PDX. It's been done countless times, so no need to rehash it again and again. I've seen comments about how some airlines should just end their service outright because there are those who are disenfranchised with the offerings. Others think Alaska is giving up on PDX when they trim routes while at the same time bolstering routes where they are successful. Honestly, it gets very tiring. I used to love coming here to read the opinions of others, but now, I'll take note of specific posters, and not even bother reading comments anymore as I know it will just be a negative opinion, based on personal feelings instead of facts. I'm all for the exchange of thoughts, ideas and opinions, but lately, it has become unreasoned and unrealistic expectations resulting in ultra negative opinions by a select few who fail to recognize all of the successes of PDX. Sure, it could be better. It could ALWAYS be better. At every airport, nationwide. But the doom and gloom comments about PDX need to stop. PDX is doing exceptionally well. So let's appreciate and support our airport for what it offers as opposed to what it doesn't, and look forward with optimism. Perhaps then, those of us who have bowed out of the conversation, will feel compelled to come back.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:48 pm

jetboy319 wrote:
I don't know about the rest of you, but one of the reasons I've refrained from posting here is that there is so much unnecessary negative drama surrounding what's happening at PDX. Perhaps it's because I may be a bit older than some, but overall, PDX is a much more robust airport than it was even a mere 10 years ago. Sure, Alaska has cut some flights/routes. But they have also added as well. They dominate PDX as an extremely profitable hub, and won't be going anywhere. I moved here in the early 2000s, and I can honestly say that PDX offers a more diverse selection of nonstop routes then when I first moved here 18 years ago. It get's so old hearing the complaints/comparisons about SEA versus PDX. It's been done countless times, so no need to rehash it again and again. I've seen comments about how some airlines should just end their service outright because there are those who are disenfranchised with the offerings. Others think Alaska is giving up on PDX when they trim routes while at the same time bolstering routes where they are successful. Honestly, it gets very tiring. I used to love coming here to read the opinions of others, but now, I'll take note of specific posters, and not even bother reading comments anymore as I know it will just be a negative opinion, based on personal feelings instead of facts. I'm all for the exchange of thoughts, ideas and opinions, but lately, it has become unreasoned and unrealistic expectations resulting in ultra negative opinions by a select few who fail to recognize all of the successes of PDX. Sure, it could be better. It could ALWAYS be better. At every airport, nationwide. But the doom and gloom comments about PDX need to stop. PDX is doing exceptionally well. So let's appreciate and support our airport for what it offers as opposed to what it doesn't, and look forward with optimism. Perhaps then, those of us who have bowed out of the conversation, will feel compelled to come back.

Sigh... by saying this, you're only going to ensue more drama. In fact, it's ridiculous comments like this that make the quality of this site go downhill. The only people who are stating "negative drama" is you. The fact that you're interpreting the comments as being "negative", are completely false. The Seattle vs. Portland comparisons are made, not in order to show the weakness at PDX, but instead to analyze and to understand the strategies of the airlines in the Pacific Northwest. Nobody is putting a negative connotation surrounding PDX. It's a great airport, that has seen lots of growth throughout the years--and for it's size, it has done very well. However, there have been more cuts than adds as of recently. That is a FACT, not an OPINION. And even if the posts are "negative", as you say, they're still opinions at the end of the day. You don't have to agree with their opinion, but you can respect what they think and why they think it, and you can explain to them why you think they're wrong instead of making unproductive posts like this that go nowhere and only create more drama. By stating only the positives that have happen at the airport, you end up failing to realize what's truly happening at the airport, and why airlines are providing what routes that they are from PDX. It's almost as if you're wanting to censor/suppress any "negative" opinion surrounding PDX, which is wholly unexceptionable.

Oh and guess what, I take note of certain posters too. Welcome to my ignored users list.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:25 pm

I really don't want to have to use other poster's usernames directly, but otherwise it probably won't get through to their heads, so I feel like I have no choice here.

I'm getting very tired of having to defend myself (and many others here as well) against other users, who have been persistently making ridiculous comments at the thread and belittling other user's comments. If you disagree with my assessment, then that's totally fine, but whenever someone posts something like this, it just gets on my nerves. But jetboy319's recent comment and jsta1981's response there pretty much show exactly what I'm getting at here. They're trying to push the agenda that more drama is created when negative comments regarding PDX are posted (which is totally not true), yet they're doing the same exact thing, just with the opposing argument that I would have. You two are the only ones who are creating the drama, so please stop it right now. If you disagree with someone's post, then just tell them why in a constructive manner, instead of accusing the other poster of being "overly dramatic".

I get it. The SEA vs PDX comparisons get old--and I definitely agree with that sentiment, but you have to realize that this is done not to put any sort of negative connotation on PDX's service, but to analyze what's going on at the airport and why it's happening. Seattle is right next to Portland, so regardless of what type of service (and how much of it) both of these airports get, they're going to be compared to each other because they're the Pacific Northwest's two largest airports.

It's come to the point where I might just leave the site entirely--because I'm not willing to deal with this kind of crap anymore.
 
msycajun
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:19 pm

I hope you all don't mind me injecting myself into this conversation, but I follow PDX a bit as it as been one of our priority routes for a while now, and I'm sure high on the list for many other midsized airports.

To me SEA comparisons are not fair because of the AS/DL battle. That being said PDX growth to me is lagging behind other midsized markets across the country. Sure there's a lot more service than 10 years ago, but pretty much every medium and large airport in the country can say the same thing. PDX is growing, but at a much slower rate than SMF, SJC, BNA, MSY, and many other airports that aren't mega hubs.

I think it's fair to say that PDX won't have the level of service of SFO or SEA in the near term, but could also being doing a lot better in terms of route development. I think if PDX could work to get routes like MSY, BNA, and similarly sized markets, that could help provide feed to many of AS's regional routes and international partners. It also looks to me like there could be a lot of room for ULCC stimulation and longer, thinner, less than daily markets. I don't know what needs to be done to make that happen, but there's probably room for improvement.
 
lhpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:57 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I really don't want to have to use other poster's usernames directly, but otherwise it probably won't get through to their heads, so I feel like I have no choice here.

I'm getting very tired of having to defend myself (and many others here as well) against other users, who have been persistently making ridiculous comments at the thread and belittling other user's comments. If you disagree with my assessment, then that's totally fine, but whenever someone posts something like this, it just gets on my nerves. But jetboy319's recent comment and jsta1981's response there pretty much show exactly what I'm getting at here. They're trying to push the agenda that more drama is created when negative comments regarding PDX are posted (which is totally not true), yet they're doing the same exact thing, just with the opposing argument that I would have. You two are the only ones who are creating the drama, so please stop it right now. If you disagree with someone's post, then just tell them why in a constructive manner, instead of accusing the other poster of being "overly dramatic".

I get it. The SEA vs PDX comparisons get old--and I definitely agree with that sentiment, but you have to realize that this is done not to put any sort of negative connotation on PDX's service, but to analyze what's going on at the airport and why it's happening. Seattle is right next to Portland, so regardless of what type of service (and how much of it) both of these airports get, they're going to be compared to each other because they're the Pacific Northwest's two largest airports.

It's come to the point where I might just leave the site entirely--because I'm not willing to deal with this kind of crap anymore.



FA9295 I find your posting quite informative and I truly hope you don't leave...........................
 
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m0ssy
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:12 pm

lhpdx wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I really don't want to have to use other poster's usernames directly, but otherwise it probably won't get through to their heads, so I feel like I have no choice here.

I'm getting very tired of having to defend myself (and many others here as well) against other users, who have been persistently making ridiculous comments at the thread and belittling other user's comments. If you disagree with my assessment, then that's totally fine, but whenever someone posts something like this, it just gets on my nerves. But jetboy319's recent comment and jsta1981's response there pretty much show exactly what I'm getting at here. They're trying to push the agenda that more drama is created when negative comments regarding PDX are posted (which is totally not true), yet they're doing the same exact thing, just with the opposing argument that I would have. You two are the only ones who are creating the drama, so please stop it right now. If you disagree with someone's post, then just tell them why in a constructive manner, instead of accusing the other poster of being "overly dramatic".

I get it. The SEA vs PDX comparisons get old--and I definitely agree with that sentiment, but you have to realize that this is done not to put any sort of negative connotation on PDX's service, but to analyze what's going on at the airport and why it's happening. Seattle is right next to Portland, so regardless of what type of service (and how much of it) both of these airports get, they're going to be compared to each other because they're the Pacific Northwest's two largest airports.

It's come to the point where I might just leave the site entirely--because I'm not willing to deal with this kind of crap anymore.



FA9295 I find your posting quite informative and I truly hope you don't leave...........................


Seconded. FA9295 I enjoy your posts/input.
Follow me on Instagram! @eug_spotter :airplane:
 
flyoregon
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:34 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I really don't want to have to use other poster's usernames directly, but otherwise it probably won't get through to their heads, so I feel like I have no choice here.

I'm getting very tired of having to defend myself (and many others here as well) against other users, who have been persistently making ridiculous comments at the thread and belittling other user's comments. If you disagree with my assessment, then that's totally fine, but whenever someone posts something like this, it just gets on my nerves. But jetboy319's recent comment and jsta1981's response there pretty much show exactly what I'm getting at here. They're trying to push the agenda that more drama is created when negative comments regarding PDX are posted (which is totally not true), yet they're doing the same exact thing, just with the opposing argument that I would have. You two are the only ones who are creating the drama, so please stop it right now. If you disagree with someone's post, then just tell them why in a constructive manner, instead of accusing the other poster of being "overly dramatic".

I get it. The SEA vs PDX comparisons get old--and I definitely agree with that sentiment, but you have to realize that this is done not to put any sort of negative connotation on PDX's service, but to analyze what's going on at the airport and why it's happening. Seattle is right next to Portland, so regardless of what type of service (and how much of it) both of these airports get, they're going to be compared to each other because they're the Pacific Northwest's two largest airports.

It's come to the point where I might just leave the site entirely--because I'm not willing to deal with this kind of crap anymore.


You're good in my book.
 
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qf789
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:53 am

Please stay in topic. A reminder to all that everyone is entitled in expressing their own personal view which must be respected. Please keep the name calling and flamebait out of the discussion
Forum Moderator
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:01 am

msycajun wrote:
I hope you all don't mind me injecting myself into this conversation, but I follow PDX a bit as it as been one of our priority routes for a while now, and I'm sure high on the list for many other midsized airports.

To me SEA comparisons are not fair because of the AS/DL battle. That being said PDX growth to me is lagging behind other midsized markets across the country. Sure there's a lot more service than 10 years ago, but pretty much every medium and large airport in the country can say the same thing. PDX is growing, but at a much slower rate than SMF, SJC, BNA, MSY, and many other airports that aren't mega hubs.

I think it's fair to say that PDX won't have the level of service of SFO or SEA in the near term, but could also being doing a lot better in terms of route development. I think if PDX could work to get routes like MSY, BNA, and similarly sized markets, that could help provide feed to many of AS's regional routes and international partners. It also looks to me like there could be a lot of room for ULCC stimulation and longer, thinner, less than daily markets. I don't know what needs to be done to make that happen, but there's probably room for improvement.

That's pretty much my view of it all in a nutshell. NK, F9 and WN have all tried a good number of routes from PDX, and a very large number of them have since been pulled. Now it's SY's turn, so we'll have to see how they do. The issue with AS starting longer and thinner routes to smaller markets from PDX is that it'll drastically take away their feed from SEA. As I mentioned earlier, there's a good reason why AS flies so many Q400s and E175s between PDX and SEA every day... (yes, I mentioned Seattle in this thread--now here come the hate comments... :roll: )
 
BA
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:51 am

FA9295 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, there's a good reason why AS flies so many Q400s and E175s between PDX and SEA every day... (yes, I mentioned Seattle in this thread--now here come the hate comments... :roll: )


The feed goes both ways. There are many Seattle-based AS flyers that fly to PDX to make connections onto other AS flights as well.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
lhpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:55 am

BA wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, there's a good reason why AS flies so many Q400s and E175s between PDX and SEA every day... (yes, I mentioned Seattle in this thread--now here come the hate comments... :roll: )


The feed goes both ways. There are many Seattle-based AS flyers that fly to PDX to make connections onto other AS flights as well.


I had no idea AS Seattle passenger transferred via PDX.....Thanks for the info BA!!
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:51 am

PDX Portland International Airport

September 2018
(% compared to 2017)
Total passengers 1,641,939 +3.9%
Domestic 1,563,127 +3.7%
International 78,812 +7.6%

2018 year-to-date
(% compared to 2017)
Total passengers 15,013,211 +4.3%
Domestic 14,337,455 +4.0%
International 675,756 +13.4%


Cathay Pacific Cargo
(tons % compared to 2017)
September 2018 +19.1%
Year-to-date +38.1%



https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Sept2018webstat.pdf
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
lhpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:59 am

Thanks, Jbpdx for the information!!
 
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rosecityspotter
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:11 am

jbpdx wrote:
PDX Portland International Airport

September 2018
(% compared to 2017)
Total passengers 1,641,939 +3.9%
Domestic 1,563,127 +3.7%
International 78,812 +7.6%

2018 year-to-date
(% compared to 2017)
Total passengers 15,013,211 +4.3%
Domestic 14,337,455 +4.0%
International 675,756 +13.4%


Cathay Pacific Cargo
(tons % compared to 2017)
September 2018 +19.1%
Year-to-date +38.1%



https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Sept2018webstat.pdf


Glad to see Cathay’s numbers doing well. Hopefully they’ll be around a lot longer than we had Asiana for. It was unfortunate to see them have to pull their service from PDX. Seems like Cathay has really figured out what works.
 
midway7
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:51 pm

I do not understand the SW thing at all. I relocated to PDX in August and have been commuting to MCI and DAL since. The early morning RON flights are packed. Most flights during the day seem to do fairly well, even in the off season time in late September and October.

SW has become a terrific option for us business travelers in the midwest. Places like STL, MCI, and DAL have nonstop options to most desired destinations. They have brought MDW up to approx 25M passengers a year. I am a business traveler and it is the best option out there, with the free itinerary changes and no bag charges. Not too mention, they really strive to do things right.

I know there is a great allegiance to Alaska up here, and I absolutely respect this. However, I would think the Portland community, business and pleasure travelers alike, would embrace some of the differentiation that makes SW a great option. Just do not understand why they are not able to build up their presence here in PDX. Especially in an environment where more people have to fly. In the midwest, they are able to compete with ground transportation options.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:15 pm

midway7 wrote:
I do not understand the SW thing at all. I relocated to PDX in August and have been commuting to MCI and DAL since. The early morning RON flights are packed. Most flights during the day seem to do fairly well, even in the off season time in late September and October.


Looks like Southwest is ending PDX-MCI in April. And Alaska is suspending PDX-MCI in January. So for most of April and May there will be no nonstops between Portland and Kansas City.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:20 am

FA9295 wrote:
That's pretty much my view of it all in a nutshell. NK, F9 and WN have all tried a good number of routes from PDX, and a very large number of them have since been pulled. Now it's SY's turn, so we'll have to see how they do. The issue with AS starting longer and thinner routes to smaller markets from PDX is that it'll drastically take away their feed from SEA. As I mentioned earlier, there's a good reason why AS flies so many Q400s and E175s between PDX and SEA every day... (yes, I mentioned Seattle in this thread--now here come the hate comments... :roll: )


That was basically why I was concerned. Not trying to be "dramatic" as one poster put it, but when relocating one of the primary things one wants to see is stable and increasing job opportunities. While AS appears to be growing, the other carriers seem to be shrinking, when what you'd want to see is general growth across the board where possible, especially if you're looking to not put all of your career eggs into one basket.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:27 pm

Big boost in seats PDX-Hawaii:
Alaska is running PDX-LIH and PDX-KOA daily, was 3x/ or 4x/week last year; 2x/day PDX-OGG; PDX-HNL 1x/day.
Hawaiian is using A332 PDX-HNL frequently (again) and A321 PDX-OGG.
Sun Country runs PDX-HNL 4x/week.
Delta does its holiday PDX-HNL from 20 Dec-5 Jan.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
lhpdx
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:50 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Big boost in seats PDX-Hawaii:
Alaska is running PDX-LIH and PDX-KOA daily, was 3x/ or 4x/week last year; 2x/day PDX-OGG; PDX-HNL 1x/day.
Hawaiian is using A332 PDX-HNL frequently (again) and A321 PDX-OGG.
Sun Country runs PDX-HNL 4x/week.
Delta does its holiday PDX-HNL from 20 Dec-5 Jan.


Finally some positive news out of PDX!!
 
bobsmith99
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:54 pm

Aloha717200 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
That's pretty much my view of it all in a nutshell. NK, F9 and WN have all tried a good number of routes from PDX, and a very large number of them have since been pulled. Now it's SY's turn, so we'll have to see how they do. The issue with AS starting longer and thinner routes to smaller markets from PDX is that it'll drastically take away their feed from SEA. As I mentioned earlier, there's a good reason why AS flies so many Q400s and E175s between PDX and SEA every day... (yes, I mentioned Seattle in this thread--now here come the hate comments... :roll: )


That was basically why I was concerned. Not trying to be "dramatic" as one poster put it, but when relocating one of the primary things one wants to see is stable and increasing job opportunities. While AS appears to be growing, the other carriers seem to be shrinking, when what you'd want to see is general growth across the board where possible, especially if you're looking to not put all of your career eggs into one basket.


I understand your concern but I wouldn't worry about it. The Portland economy is growing and is much more diverse than it ever has been. Passenger count at PDX continues to grow and it will be another record year. Over $1B of expansion/renovation planned. F9, NK are unreliable at best in terms of their long term commitments anywhere. I'm a native midwesterner and most similarly sized cities in that area would bend over backwards for the type of current service Portland has (STL, MKE, CLE, CVG, IND, MCI, etc). The future is bright.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:17 am

pdxav8r wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
pdxav8r wrote:
Nice picture history of PDX from O-live today. Definitely worth a look. Can't believe that I can remember some of the old terminal. https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/life-an ... how-p.html.


Thanks for that share, Wow the milk run routes are awesome. I remember in the 60's & 70's they had several runs that had multiple stops in Oregon.


Yeah, I especially remember the Hughes Airwest timetables that show 'four-stop', 'five-stop' thru-plane service, up and down the coast. That would have been fun to do those milk run routes.


The one that remained even after RC merger, was SEA-PDX-RDM-LMT-RDD-SFO, mostly flown on the DC-9-10, IIRC they also ran a D9S.

http://www.departedflights.com/RC121582.html
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
ooslc
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:09 am

Only thing from the OAG this week was this:

UA MFR-SFO JUN 3>4[5] JUL 3>4[5] AUG 3>4[5]
    Ironically, I don't work for OO anymore, and I'm not in SLC anymore. PDX based, aviation enthusiast, non-aviation worker.
 
babcock
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:25 am

jbpdx wrote:
midway7 wrote:
I do not understand the SW thing at all. I relocated to PDX in August and have been commuting to MCI and DAL since. The early morning RON flights are packed. Most flights during the day seem to do fairly well, even in the off season time in late September and October.


Looks like Southwest is ending PDX-MCI in April. And Alaska is suspending PDX-MCI in January. So for most of April and May there will be no nonstops between Portland and Kansas City.


Could the MCI cuts be related to the horrible airport circumstance in Kansas City? I've flown through there numerous times as part of a connection. I would say a large chunk of the traffic is connecting to other flights. But without any question MCI is the absolute worst airport in the country with a lack of space and amenities behind security. Perhaps SWA finally came to the conclusion that steering people though Denver and Midway makes for a better customer experience.
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:18 am

Anyone know what's going on with B6 1206 PDX-JFK?

It's been doing loops northwest of the airport for quite awhile now shortly after takeoff, maintaining 6,100 ft.:
https://www.flightradar24.com/JBU1206/1eaf1f03
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU ... /KPDX/KJFK
 
AS737MAX
Posts: 495
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:40 am

FA9295 wrote:
Anyone know what's going on with B6 1206 PDX-JFK?

It's been doing loops northwest of the airport for quite awhile now shortly after takeoff, maintaining 6,100 ft.:
https://www.flightradar24.com/JBU1206/1eaf1f03
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU ... /KPDX/KJFK


Just downloaded liveatc real quick, and I think I caught PDX Tower mention to another a/c that the B6 pilots thought they had blown tires on takeoff, ops checked, didn’t think so.

Edit: 10:55pm Appears it’s landed back at PDX
Last edited by AS737MAX on Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:51 am

AS737MAX wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Anyone know what's going on with B6 1206 PDX-JFK?

It's been doing loops northwest of the airport for quite awhile now shortly after takeoff, maintaining 6,100 ft.:
https://www.flightradar24.com/JBU1206/1eaf1f03
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU ... /KPDX/KJFK


Just downloaded liveatc real quick, and I think I caught PDX Tower mention to another a/c that the B6 pilots had blown tires on takeoff, ops checked, didn’t think so.

Looks like they're diverting back to PDX right now.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:01 am

hearing now (from liveATC) that there was debris found on one of the runways; likely from the blown tire--and they're temporarily closing down the runway.

...and now inbound flights are being diverted to EUG.
 
WolfPDX
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:09 am

Listening in. Jetblue reported that they heard a thud/thump on when they took off and were retracting the landing gear. They then reported the were not able to pressurize and requested a ability to hold and do checks. Port did a quick check of the departing runway but sounded like they found fine tire rubber on the runway and requested to close the north runway 10L/28R to clean it up. On 1206 landing they found some debris on the runway. (bird and some carbon fiber) 1206 also had some damage to number 2 engine and flaps reported on the ground when they were taxing to gate.

Edit: corrected some info.

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