Airliners.net

Jshank83 wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

Bluegrass60 wrote:

BNA-BUR could never...ever be supported by O&D between those cities....there is not that much entertainment industry traffic. This route feeds into WN connections at BNA

This flight will have plenty of O&D. Wouldn’t surprise me if SNA is added.

Issue with SNA is southwest has been losing seats there. So they have been cutting routes. Not adding them. I don’t even think MDW is year round anymore there.

I figured. I did see many SNA bags during my time working at BNA. Not saying that’s reliable, but considering there’s a lot of California transplants, this is a route I could see working if slot issues are resolved. My wishlist for WN is SMF, IND, PDX, LIT, PBI, BDL, and maybe DSM. One I could see coming out of left field is GRR.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

BNA-BUR could never...ever be supported by O&D between those cities....there is not that much entertainment industry traffic. This route feeds into WN connections at BNA

You can’t just look at previous numbers for the route because a lot of people who would have flown it just flew BNA-LAX because they would rather have a longer drive but avoid the connection. The LA region is huge, I see this addition as basically being an added LAX flight (just like they added LAS and SAN flights in this extension) but giving fliers another option in the region. Plus yes, their entertainment industry corporate fliers probably wanted another regional option.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

in re BNA-ATL......why would anyone O&D from ATL connect anywhere??? The only way the route stays for WN is if WN decides to really downsize ATL.

LF for winter months will be worse

DL will win the battle for BNA....and when they do....some of that extra lift (757) down gauges

The BNA-ATL WN loads are weaker than the SDF-ATL loads when WN served that route with 3 flights/day....DL won that battle as well.

If you think WN losses on BNA-ATL are high, you should see some of Delta's routes in Seattle and Boston. At the end of the day, WN can take complete bath on this route for a couple of years until it works out or DL gets sick of taking losses on it with all connection traffic and back down. BNA is clearly an important station for them given how other stations around are getting downsized. The path to getting a fortress station is not always easy. As long as DL still controls strong presence in BNA, WN won't be able to get there. This is a long term play.

By the way, I was dummy booking to check prices and I don’t know if it’s because of a new flight sale or something but BNA-BUR is insanely cheap compared to BNA-LAX on the days I checked - like almost half the price. The yields may be terrible but if those prices hold they’ll have no problem filling planes.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

BNA-BUR could never...ever be supported by O&D between those cities....there is not that much entertainment industry traffic. This route feeds into WN connections at BNA

Re: this and other posts of yours. It just bugs the hell out of you that BNA is the fastest growing airport in the U.S. right now doesn't it? (At least per a report from earlier this year embedded somewhere in this thread). Why do you continue to force the O$D vs. cnx traffic issue? The point is, traffic is going up monthly Y.O.Y. Once the build out is complete, there will be a new plan in place because WN is going to continue to grow, and other carriers, international included, are going to add and upgrade aircraft type.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

BNA-BUR could never...ever be supported by O&D between those cities....there is not that much entertainment industry traffic. This route feeds into WN connections at BNA

That is 100% false. 100%

Dude, STFU. You haven’t a single clue about the business nature of Nashville. When you can support an LAX flight without guarantees we’ll talk.

Was curious if anything odd was going on at BNA today around 13:00. I was going north on Briley, stopped at the Vultee Blvd. traffic light. Was what I assume was a CR9 on final, maybe over Elm Hill Pike coming into 20L. By the time I got past the light, the flight was pulling up at a fairly steep rate. I decided not having a wreck was the better option than rubber necking. Did seem odd though.

EvanWSFO wrote:

Was curious if anything odd was going on at BNA today around 13:00. I was going north on Briley, stopped at the Vultee Blvd. traffic light. Was what I assume was a CR9 on final, maybe over Elm Hill Pike coming into 20L. By the time I got past the light, the flight was pulling up at a fairly steep rate. I decided not having a wreck was the better option than rubber necking. Did seem odd though.

I haven’t heard anything.

Lexy wrote:

EvanWSFO wrote:

Was curious if anything odd was going on at BNA today around 13:00. I was going north on Briley, stopped at the Vultee Blvd. traffic light. Was what I assume was a CR9 on final, maybe over Elm Hill Pike coming into 20L. By the time I got past the light, the flight was pulling up at a fairly steep rate. I decided not having a wreck was the better option than rubber necking. Did seem odd though.

I haven’t heard anything.

Thanks.

I think there’s a possibility BNA hits 16 million pax this year.

southwest1675 wrote:

So I was thinking. The new proposed IAB going between C and B will have 6 gates. I was thinking that Nashville will never need 6 international gates. My bet is that AA will move in there and share 2-3 gates with international carriers when they need them. BA and JAL are OneWorld so I could see this kinda working out. WN could take the rest of C, turn the current Admirals Club and offices into a crew domicile. Just speculation but maybe that’s why the MNAA hasn’t proposed the idea of expanding B or A yet. Besides NK, a German and Mexican carrier, I see nobody else adding BNA service. Another proposal I think they could look at, is to convert the current IAB into more regular gates on the A Concourse.

I know a lot of people scoff at the idea of JL into BNA, but I think it's quite possible. Condor and Icelandair as well. Volaris possible, though I'd like to see WN add to Mexico or Caribbean service. NK will happen when the gates are there.

All you cheerleaders for BNA find it difficult to understand economics. BNA is successful. You will never understand why. Am sure that WN will just keep expanding. DL will establish a focus city operation at BNA. UA will create a SE hub at BNA. JAL will fly nonstop to TTY. Quantas will fly to Sydney. BNA will displace ATL. Awesome. LOL

Bluegrass60 wrote:

All you cheerleaders for BNA find it difficult to understand economics. BNA is successful. You will never understand why. Am sure that WN will just keep expanding. DL will establish a focus city operation at BNA. UA will create a SE hub at BNA. JAL will fly nonstop to TTY. Quantas will fly to Sydney. BNA will displace ATL. Awesome. LOL

Literally no one has ever said anything about being larger than ATL.

It’s already been shown to you that it’s mathematically not possible that the growth is from connecting passengers and then you disregarded a quote from the airports president giving O&D numbers.

Cheerleaders....if any of you truly believe BNA has grown 60% with passenger volume due only to growth in O&D....and is able to support nonstops to all the destinations with frequencies that BNA now enjoys....I guess pot has been legalized in TN or wherever you live. BNA O&D is likely @10-11M passengers....the balance for BNA is connecting traffic....primarily thru the WN Focus. All the bachelorette and bachelor parties in the US do not make up the difference! Jeez....there is nothing wrong with that....it is good for BNA and justifies the BNA Vision. There is a limit to the growth however unless WN changes its business model and/or downsizes ATL. As long as WN is the big dog at BNA.....DL, AA and UA will stay status quo with incremental changes they deem make sense. The ULCCs attract a different market....but....they impact WN and the rest of the BNA carriers at the margins. Added international flights are likely over time. BNA has alot going for it!

Bluegrass60 wrote:

Cheerleaders....if any of you truly believe BNA has grown 60% with passenger volume due only to growth in O&D....and is able to support nonstops to all the destinations with frequencies that BNA now enjoys....I guess pot has been legalized in TN or wherever you live. BNA O&D is likely @10-11M passengers....the balance for BNA is connecting traffic....primarily thru the WN Focus. All the bachelorette and bachelor parties in the US do not make up the difference! Jeez....there is nothing wrong with that....it is good for BNA and justifies the BNA Vision. There is a limit to the growth however unless WN changes its business model and/or downsizes ATL. As long as WN is the big dog at BNA.....DL, AA and UA will stay status quo with incremental changes they deem make sense. The ULCCs attract a different market....but....they impact WN and the rest of the BNA carriers at the margins. Added international flights are likely over time. BNA has alot going for it!

So more than 50% of WN’s numbers are connecting? WN carried like 7.5 million pax last year (if I’m not mistaken, I didn’t look it up), and the airport did like 14.5 million. So to get down to say 10.5 million more than half of their numbers would need to be connecting.

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

tys777 wrote:

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

I'm a Nashville native moved to Minnesota Northwoods, if true a two hour drive to DLH for a direct flight is gonna be awesome!

tys777 wrote:

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

Article states it's a charter. There are probably 100 cities that would get service before DLH. Not a knock, but it doesn't make sense to be a scheduled flight.

In this morning's OAG update by enrila, SY shows to be doubling MSP (If I'm reading it correctly, that's often hard to read).. I'm curious if they are making any money at BNA.

EvanWSFO wrote:

tys777 wrote:

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

Article states it's a charter. There are probably 100 cities that would get service before DLH. Not a knock, but it doesn't make sense to be a scheduled flight.

I’m not sure it’s functionally much different from some of what G4 is doing. It’s bringing tourists in from a small market, probably at limited frequency. My guess - just based on geography - is that SY is better equipped to sell package holidays in and around Duluth than G4 is.

EvanWSFO wrote:

tys777 wrote:

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

Article states it's a charter. There are probably 100 cities that would get service before DLH. Not a knock, but it doesn't make sense to be a scheduled flight.

In this morning's OAG update by enrila, SY shows to be doubling MSP (If I'm reading it correctly, that's often hard to read).. I'm curious if they are making any money at BNA.

It's laughable whether a charter or not.

DakotaFlyer wrote:

tys777 wrote:

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

I'm a Nashville native moved to Minnesota Northwoods, if true a two hour drive to DLH for a direct flight is gonna be awesome!

For sure! As someone living in Duluth with family in TN, and having done my undergrad down there, I'd use this service.

With Sun Country’s schedule, you can never tell if it’s a charter or not.

southwest1675 wrote:

With Sun Country’s schedule, you can never tell if it’s a charter or not.

Yep. If I read enrila's list correctly, looks like TPA is going away for awhile at the end of January.

tys777 wrote:

SY to.....DLH?


https://tinyurl.com/y9y5ftq6

Looks like a one off charter.

https://www.fox21online.com/2018/11/18/ ... n-radar-2/

Will be interested to find out who is underwriting this. Is this SY trying something different? A local tour operator?

It reads like they are going to offer this as an inclusive (air & hotel) package from Duluth to Nashville. Maybe Nashville as a destination is at the point of offering these types of packages. I think they would be targeting areas with strong country music fans looking for a getaway over an extended weekend. They could time it so they arrive at BNA early Thursday afternoon and depart BNA around noon on sunday. People have driven to Nashville from nearby states for a long time, so maybe we are at the point that people will now fly for the same thing. A similar strategy could also explain the SYR-BNA on G4. They definitely need to extend into the first week or so of June to catch the CMA traffic as well.

If this catches on, Thursday’s and Sunday’s at BNA could get interesting. I could see several small to mid-sized places potentially supporting a twice weekly bundled package during peak seasons. Places like DSM, TOL, TUL, OMA, LIT, GRR, JAN all come to my mind.

HeyHey wrote:

It reads like they are going to offer this as an inclusive (air & hotel) package from Duluth to Nashville. Maybe Nashville as a destination is at the point of offering these types of packages. I think they would be targeting areas with strong country music fans looking for a getaway over an extended weekend. They could time it so they arrive at BNA early Thursday afternoon and depart BNA around noon on sunday. People have driven to Nashville from nearby states for a long time, so maybe we are at the point that people will now fly for the same thing. A similar strategy could also explain the SYR-BNA on G4. They definitely need to extend into the first week or so of June to catch the CMA traffic as well.

If this catches on, Thursday’s and Sunday’s at BNA could get interesting. I could see several small to mid-sized places potentially supporting a twice weekly bundled package during peak seasons. Places like DSM, TOL, TUL, OMA, LIT, GRR, JAN all come to my mind.

If going after country music fans, seems like they would have added this during the CMA Fest in June. I'm a bit skeptical SY can make BNA work when flying 2x a week. G4 and F9 have a jump on them. Sooner or later, gate space simply isn't going to be there until BNA Vision is built out, even for the less than daily flights.

With the discussion about O&D vs. transfer and the disagreement between the various responding parties on this forum, I made a public records request from BNA myself and got the following response:

I am responding to your inquiry into O&D passenger %’s for the past 12 months here at BNA.

Happy to help.

For the 12 month period ending October 2018 our split was as follows*:
· 87.8% O&D
· 12.2% Transfer

(*as reported from directly from the airlines)

tphuang wrote:

Bluegrass60 wrote:

in re BNA-ATL......why would anyone O&D from ATL connect anywhere??? The only way the route stays for WN is if WN decides to really downsize ATL.

LF for winter months will be worse

DL will win the battle for BNA....and when they do....some of that extra lift (757) down gauges

The BNA-ATL WN loads are weaker than the SDF-ATL loads when WN served that route with 3 flights/day....DL won that battle as well.

If you think WN losses on BNA-ATL are high, you should see some of Delta's routes in Seattle and Boston. At the end of the day, WN can take complete bath on this route for a couple of years until it works out or DL gets sick of taking losses on it with all connection traffic and back down. BNA is clearly an important station for them given how other stations around are getting downsized. The path to getting a fortress station is not always easy. As long as DL still controls strong presence in BNA, WN won't be able to get there. This is a long term play.

First of all, DL will not be the first to back down from this route. This is their key route out of a market in which they have a reasonably strong point of sale. I hate the "Southwest will win every war it wages" mentality, because it's simply not true. Look at it's move on Philly against USAir and against Alaska in Seattle...and even, coincidentally, its downsizing in ATL. Look, we know WN is not using the BNA-ATL route for connections. It's a businessperson route. And Delta has a massive connection advantage. It's hub in ATL has 10x as many daily flights as WN's hublet in Nashville. If anyone will draw back on this route first, it will be WN.

maps4ltd wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Bluegrass60 wrote:

in re BNA-ATL......why would anyone O&D from ATL connect anywhere??? The only way the route stays for WN is if WN decides to really downsize ATL.

LF for winter months will be worse

DL will win the battle for BNA....and when they do....some of that extra lift (757) down gauges

The BNA-ATL WN loads are weaker than the SDF-ATL loads when WN served that route with 3 flights/day....DL won that battle as well.

If you think WN losses on BNA-ATL are high, you should see some of Delta's routes in Seattle and Boston. At the end of the day, WN can take complete bath on this route for a couple of years until it works out or DL gets sick of taking losses on it with all connection traffic and back down. BNA is clearly an important station for them given how other stations around are getting downsized. The path to getting a fortress station is not always easy. As long as DL still controls strong presence in BNA, WN won't be able to get there. This is a long term play.

First of all, DL will not be the first to back down from this route. This is their key route out of a market in which they have a reasonably strong point of sale. I hate the "Southwest will win every war it wages" mentality, because it's simply not true. Look at it's move on Philly against USAir and against Alaska in Seattle...and even, coincidentally, its downsizing in ATL. Look, we know WN is not using the BNA-ATL route for connections. It's a businessperson route. And Delta has a massive connection advantage. It's hub in ATL has 10x as many daily flights as WN's hublet in Nashville. If anyone will draw back on this route first, it will be WN.

I think you might be misunderstanding my point here. I'm not saying DL will significantly reduce this route, but rather I don't think Southwest will back down unless it thinks BNA-ATL is not important to its BNA station or it has given up on its goal of growing BNA to like a southeast version of BWI. It's clear that DL has very strong point of sale in BNA. That's why they are trying to drive WN off this route. But over time, if it sees that WN is not quitting here, it might right size some of the flights from 757s to 737s. After all, DL does care about the bottom line and all that connection traffic isn't exactly high yielding stuff.

https://www.thedailytimes.com/business/ ... 3359a.html
"Nashville's mayor may privatize the operations of city-owned Nashville International Airport to generate funding for mass transit in middle Tennessee"

Midwestindy wrote:

https://www.thedailytimes.com/business/tennessee-city-looks-to-privatize-airport/article_a6c4b15a-1727-5937-8bfd-671e2b63359a.html
"Nashville's mayor may privatize the operations of city-owned Nashville International Airport to generate funding for mass transit in middle Tennessee"

It’s from June of last year. It didn’t go any further than a meeting with a company that runs airports, then of course Barry resigned and transit was trounced in the polls.

pdt2f wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

https://www.thedailytimes.com/business/tennessee-city-looks-to-privatize-airport/article_a6c4b15a-1727-5937-8bfd-671e2b63359a.html
"Nashville's mayor may privatize the operations of city-owned Nashville International Airport to generate funding for mass transit in middle Tennessee"

It’s from June of last year. It didn’t go any further than a meeting with a company that runs airports, then of course Barry resigned and transit was trounced in the polls.

Nashville is falling further behind with mass transit. Until they get Rutherford, Sumne, Robertson and maybe (unlikely) Williamson counties on board with a regional plan, it's not gonna happen before the late 20's at best.

tphuang wrote:

maps4ltd wrote:

tphuang wrote:

it might right size some of the flights from 757s to 737s. After all, DL does care about the bottom line and all that connection traffic isn't exactly high yielding stuff.

Yeah you are right there is a new flight number on one of the ATL-BNA-ATL rotations started yesterday DL 1594 ATL-BNA-ATL is a 737-900ER which was not previously on the route. Anyone know if this took over one of the MD-88 rotations or one of the 757-200

gsg013 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

maps4ltd wrote:

Yeah you are right there is a new flight number on one of the ATL-BNA-ATL rotations started yesterday DL 1594 ATL-BNA-ATL is a 737-900ER which was not previously on the route. Anyone know if this took over one of the MD-88 rotations or one of the 757-200

I've been seeing fewer 757's for the winter. M88's are coming back. Might be the first 739 for the route, not sure.

Doing a dummy booking in January,, I see two 757's and eight M88;s.

Is F9’s TTN route cut or not? I thought it was ending but I saw today on Enrilia’s OAG thread that it’s back up to a few times per week in May 2019.

pdt2f wrote:

Is F9’s TTN route cut or not? I thought it was ending but I saw today on Enrilia’s OAG thread that it’s back up to a few times per week in May 2019.

Looks like it's bookable until early January, the goes away for a couple months. Very Schizophrenic scheduling.

Anyone have passenger numbers for November???

Wasn’t able to find anything online....I would imagine we’re still barreling towards 16M for 2018 given all the ‘arrive early we’re expecting abnormally large departures’ warning from BNA twitter

dafunk10 wrote:

Anyone have passenger numbers for November???

Wasn’t able to find anything online....I would imagine we’re still barreling towards 16M for 2018 given all the ‘arrive early we’re expecting abnormally large departures’ warning from BNA twitter

They’re typically released late the following month. So look for them maybe around Christmas, or a little after.

As 2018 comes to a close, any predictions for 2019 air service at BNA? I think WN adding 2-3 new cities is a no brainier. I think PDX will come next year as well. If we had space, Spirit would be adding Nashville.

southwest1675 wrote:

As 2018 comes to a close, any predictions for 2019 air service at BNA? I think WN adding 2-3 new cities is a no brainier. I think PDX will come next year as well. If we had space, Spirit would be adding Nashville.

I heard a rumor (stress the rumor) from a legitimate source that would be close to such things as this, that Icelandair is close to announcing service to KEF starting next spring/summer. This would not be atypical for Icelandair as they announced KCI in January for service that began in May...so stay tuned.

southwest1675 wrote:

As 2018 comes to a close, any predictions for 2019 air service at BNA? I think WN adding 2-3 new cities is a no brainier. I think PDX will come next year as well. If we had space, Spirit would be adding Nashville.

Agreed. WN adding IND, PDX, RIC, and maybe another Florida destination seem like reasonable expectations. I would like to see NK enter BNA, but like you mention gate space is an obvious hinderance. I would love to see some more Canadian routes. Perhaps Vancouver, Edmonton, and/or Montreal. Westjet throwing a couple more seasonal routes our way would be well appreciated.

pdt2f wrote:

southwest1675 wrote:

As 2018 comes to a close, any predictions for 2019 air service at BNA? I think WN adding 2-3 new cities is a no brainier. I think PDX will come next year as well. If we had space, Spirit would be adding Nashville.

Agreed. WN adding IND, PDX, RIC, and maybe another Florida destination seem like reasonable expectations. I would like to see NK enter BNA, but like you mention gate space is an obvious hinderance. I would love to see some more Canadian routes. Perhaps Vancouver, Edmonton, and/or Montreal. Westjet throwing a couple more seasonal routes our way would be well appreciated.

Given AC's recent Montreal transborder expansion, AC to YUL is probably the most realistic item on the Canada wish list. YVR is a long way away, and YYC pretty well covers anything that YEG would (the two are only about 250 km apart).

southwest1675 wrote:

As 2018 comes to a close, any predictions for 2019 air service at BNA? I think WN adding 2-3 new cities is a no brainier. I think PDX will come next year as well. If we had space, Spirit would be adding Nashville.

Sooner or later PDX will have to happen or a bunch of angry local avgeeks will storm the castle. NK just announced IND this morning. Just not sure where they would put them here. I think FI starting next summer with a few WN adds would be a good wish list.

Is gate space really the thing preventing NK from entering BNA? They (BNA) have more gates than AUS and IND at the moment.

Regardless, NK in BNA is simply a matter of when

Fargo wrote:

Is gate space really the thing preventing NK from entering BNA? They (BNA) have more gates than AUS and IND at the moment.

Regardless, NK in BNA is simply a matter of when

It’s not just gate space, there isn’t room to set up a ticket counter for NK. Not even an inch.

Lexy wrote:

Bluegrass60 wrote:

BNA-BUR could never...ever be supported by O&D between those cities....there is not that much entertainment industry traffic. This route feeds into WN connections at BNA

That is 100% false. 100%

Dude, STFU. You haven’t a single clue about the business nature of Nashville. When you can support an LAX flight without guarantees we’ll talk.

"I don't know why I waste my time responding to this....you are absolutely clueless if you think BNA can support all the flights it has with just it's O&D. I am quite familiar with the businesses in Nashville. Healthcare, Business & Financial Services, Logistics, Automotive, Consumer Merchandising, Music/Entertainment and Tourism.....so me thinks it is you who should just STFU about things you don't have a clue about."

southwest1675 wrote:

Fargo wrote:

Is gate space really the thing preventing NK from entering BNA? They (BNA) have more gates than AUS and IND at the moment.

Regardless, NK in BNA is simply a matter of when

It’s not just gate space, there isn’t room to set up a ticket counter for NK. Not even an inch.

This ^ Contour got kicked out of their normal counter area and is now right inside the door of departures across from DL. They basically plopped part of a counter on the floor near the door.

southwest1675 wrote:

Fargo wrote:

Is gate space really the thing preventing NK from entering BNA? They (BNA) have more gates than AUS and IND at the moment.

Regardless, NK in BNA is simply a matter of when

It’s not just gate space, there isn’t room to set up a ticket counter for NK. Not even an inch.

Maybe setup a Rosepepper Cantina taco truck in the lobby and work out of there. At least you'll have your food for the flight.

Bluegrass60 wrote:

Lexy wrote:

Bluegrass60 wrote:

BNA-BUR could never...ever be supported by O&D between those cities....there is not that much entertainment industry traffic. This route feeds into WN connections at BNA

That is 100% false. 100%

Dude, STFU. You haven’t a single clue about the business nature of Nashville. When you can support an LAX flight without guarantees we’ll talk.

"I don't know why I waste my time responding to this....you are absolutely clueless if you think BNA can support all the flights it has with just it's O&D. I am quite familiar with the businesses in Nashville. Healthcare, Business & Financial Services, Logistics, Automotive, Consumer Merchandising, Music/Entertainment and Tourism.....so me thinks it is you who should just STFU about things you don't have a clue about."

Your obsession about this is really irrational. It's not hard to tell who the Nashville residents are on this site, especially the knowledgeable ones many of whom may work for an airline. I haven't seen anything untrue or doctored statistics in all of these posts. Hell, as a consumer and traveller, I can tell your posts are just not reality as much as you wish they were.

Throwing and tagging bags is not exactly network planning for an airline. I have never suggested untrue or doctored statistics. There are people on this board who think Nashville O&D actually can support all of the flights it currently receives with 12.6% transfer traffic (as reported by BNA public relations) I think the transfer traffic is more than published. End of story. Believe what you want.