Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
guyanam wrote:Brickell305 wrote:[I suspect when people say this, they usually mean they'd like to see a LI/BW w/o political interference w/o considering the financial impact of privatization. Few will recognize that the govt's are the only entity in the Caribbean both willing and able to withstand the potentially significant losses that these airlines generate. There may be some private entities that have the ability to sustain losses for prolonged periods but they are definitely not doing that willingly. The biggest problem that the region faces is that structurally, the ability to generate respectable profits runs almost completely counter to delivering the kind of service that people want. You could make profits as a small, niche carrier flying tiny turboprops to a handful of islands in one section of the region but that's not what the public at large generally wants from a regional carrier. They want one with the ability to fly them the length and breadth of the region with convenient frequencies which is a recipe for losses as there simply isn't sufficient traffic throughout the region to do that profitably consistently.
I think that various governments have non commercial reasons to maintain these carriers. For instance one might query whether POS needs its own airline as it is a viable market so that AA, B6, WS, and AC can and will increase service if BW were to be shut down. However BW does generate indirect benefits for T&T with a sizeable and reasonably well paid employee base and maintaining the levels of aviation related skills that the country has had over the 70+ years that it has had an airline based there.
KX clearly provides a development role for GCM, building new routes that show potential and ensuring competition on other routes seen as strategic to the Cayman Islands. They receive government subsidies as the Cayman gov't deems necessary. When Ivan wiped out GCM and carriers were reluctant to return it was KX which provided valuable connections to the outside world to prevent the collapse of its offshore finance and tourism sectors.
LI is clearly a utility. All one needs to do is to sit down all day at BGI and see the planes taking off to other parts of the Eastern Caribbean to see that it actually functions like the "Greyhound of the Eastern Caribbean". Travel within this region is often lumpy. Many times flights take off with as few as 20 passengers, but if there is a carnival, cricket or a music festival, or Easter then people are literally fighting for seats, so its hard for this to be purely commercial. At times it maybe something as simple as someone hosting a big "fete" and people arriving from neighboring islands to attend, or some big religious event, or a youth camp, etc. Eastern Caribbean people are way more socially integrated than they are aware of. Traffic isn't always predictably seasonal yet people expect easy transportation around the region.
LI has already eliminated most of its least profitable routes. Irma/Maria has led to reduced service on the northern end of its routes where some might argue that traffic was declining and that its planes were too large. Carriers like Winair, Inter Caribbean, VI Airlink and Air Sunshine are filling the gap for travel within the northeast Caribbean leaving LI to connect some islands to its destinations further south where populations are larger, meaning a better use of its ATR planes.
I bet that UP has similar challenges on its intra Bahamas routes.
The best that one can demand is that the airlines are run as efficiently as possible with minimum irrational gov't interference. And that some arrangement be made to offer direct subsidies on "social routes" an obvious example being the TAB bridge where fares are lower than would otherwise be the case. And that competent management be put in place.
GUYAIR707 wrote:[
LI 521 on Monday BGI-OGL had 36 pax.
guyanam wrote:GUYAIR707 wrote:[
LI 521 on Monday BGI-OGL had 36 pax.
Meaning 32 empty seats. But if some church has a revival convention on Monday the flight might be over booked.
And this could be in BGI or one of the islands further down the line. Even though Jan/Feb together with Sept/Oct are the worst months for intra Caribbean travel, that is aside from the pre Lenten Carnival islands.
gunnerman wrote:I couldn't help thinking of the 66-seat ATR 72s which Executive Airlines dba American Eagle operated from SJU, the longest route being to POS - 608 miles compared with LI's 463 miles from BGI to OGL. Executive's ATRs must have been on the limit.
guyanam wrote:I guess BW is seeing how much business they are doing on their POS SVD route that originates in JFK. Running a 1X nonstop keeps B6 out as this isn't a route that will generate year round volume so competing head to head isn't going to happen. This because the main island of SVG isn't leisure oriented and the smaller islands which are will continued to accessed out of BGI, which offers vastly more connected opportunities than SVD ever will.
guyanam wrote:gunnerman wrote:I couldn't help thinking of the 66-seat ATR 72s which Executive Airlines dba American Eagle operated from SJU, the longest route being to POS - 608 miles compared with LI's 463 miles from BGI to OGL. Executive's ATRs must have been on the limit.
I think that OGL might be a runway length problem.
dominicl316 wrote:I know this is a long shot, but could B6 do well on a SJU-SVD with their E190? Considering the connecting opportunities out of SJU, any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?
dominicl316 wrote:I know this is a long shot, but could B6 do well on a SJU-SVD with their E190? Considering the connecting opportunities out of SJU, any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?
dominicl316 wrote:I know this is a long shot, but could B6 do well on a SJU-SVD with their E190? Considering the connecting opportunities out of SJU, any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?
dominicl316 wrote:I know this is a long shot, but could B6 do well on a SJU-SVD with their E190? Considering the connecting opportunities out of SJU, any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?
gunnerman wrote:dominicl316 wrote:I know this is a long shot, but could B6 do well on a SJU-SVD with their E190? Considering the connecting opportunities out of SJU, any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?
St. Vincent and the Grenadines had only 56,000 stay over visitors in 2017. The country does not have the number of hotel rooms to attract many more visitors and flights.
gunnerman wrote:guyanam wrote:gunnerman wrote:I couldn't help thinking of the 66-seat ATR 72s which Executive Airlines dba American Eagle operated from SJU, the longest route being to POS - 608 miles compared with LI's 463 miles from BGI to OGL. Executive's ATRs must have been on the limit.
I think that OGL might be a runway length problem.
A fully-laden ATR 72 needs a runway length more than OGL's 4,200 feet. However, I believe that LI's load factors result in MTOW being reached infrequently enough to justify the switch from GEO.
Brickell305 wrote:guyanam wrote:GUYAIR707 wrote:[
LI 521 on Monday BGI-OGL had 36 pax.
Meaning 32 empty seats. But if some church has a revival convention on Monday the flight might be over booked.
And this could be in BGI or one of the islands further down the line. Even though Jan/Feb together with Sept/Oct are the worst months for intra Caribbean travel, that is aside from the pre Lenten Carnival islands.
I think LI’s 72’s are weight restricted out of OGL so they can’t seat a full 68 pax on that flight. Can’t remember what the maximum is on those flights though.
gunnerman wrote:The question is: how much support will AA want to be persuaded to launch this route?
gunnerman wrote:The PTY-BGI flights start on 17 July 2018 on Tuesdays and Fridays.
gunnerman wrote:The PTY-BGI flights start on 17 July 2018 on Tuesdays and Fridays.
baje427 wrote:I noticed BGI is not yet available for booking on Copa's website I am definitely interested in the type of pricing for this route.
Air transportation charges: Panama (PTY), Panama - Bridgetown (BGI), Barbados, Bridgetown (BGI), Barbados - Panama (PTY), Panama
1 ADULT 12+. Tuesday, July 17 2018, 09:30 AM - Tuesday, July 24 2018, 03:00 PM. USD 319.00
Fuel Surcharges USD 35.00
Taxes (Approximate) USD 111.50
TOTAL: USD 465.50
trintocan wrote:Hello all, it seems as though 2018 is full of action as far as Caribbean aviation is concerned. Once again the POS - TAB airbridge is a problem - but this is a complex issue and requires its own post. I have noticed on Flight Radar 24 that, as mentioned in the old thread, AA now use the 737-MAX8 to POS. My thoughts are, is this not an upgrade of equipment? While the plane offers 10 fewer seats than the A321 previously used it does have the WiFi capability - and this is the future of in flight entertainment. By offering this to POS AA is likely trying to see whether this innovation is competitive in a tried and trusted market with a strong business element. I can see BGI getting this in time too. With 2 daily flights to POS the reduction in seats is perhaps less of an issue than the introduction of this product while maintaining the service frequency which is another key selling point.
Trintocan.
Brickell305 wrote:
As someone who has flown the 7M8 on POS-MIA, I can tell you it is the furthest thing from an upgrade imaginable. The only seats with decent pitch are the exits and the front row of economy. There is no bulkhead between business/main cabin. The WiFi didn't work the entire trip and the lav is a sardine can. The only benefit was the "new plane smell".
jmdc861 wrote:AA will be downgrading the MIA-BGI route to the Max 8 as well I must say the A321 was a vast improvement over the 757 with the IFE the inflight wifi does not work much after the Bahamas.It also works out to around 2500 seats less in a year this coupled with the basic economy I can see a lot of Bajans shifting to B6.
The problem with B6 to South Florida (Fort Lauderdale) is that they leave BGI at 630am. 430am Check-in ?! Give me a break!
beeweel15 wrote:jmdc861 wrote:AA will be downgrading the MIA-BGI route to the Max 8 as well I must say the A321 was a vast improvement over the 757 with the IFE the inflight wifi does not work much after the Bahamas.It also works out to around 2500 seats less in a year this coupled with the basic economy I can see a lot of Bajans shifting to B6.
The problem with B6 to South Florida (Fort Lauderdale) is that they leave BGI at 630am. 430am Check-in ?! Give me a break!
Thats a great time. Get into FLL before noon is great especially for connections. What will be better as someone mentioned a turn around is a 11pm or mid night departure to BGI arriving at 0430am departing at 0630am back to FLL that give passengers especially traders to get a full day shopping then leave FLL by mid night.
Kilgen wrote:baje427 wrote:I noticed BGI is not yet available for booking on Copa's website I am definitely interested in the type of pricing for this route.
I think they just made them available.Air transportation charges: Panama (PTY), Panama - Bridgetown (BGI), Barbados, Bridgetown (BGI), Barbados - Panama (PTY), Panama
1 ADULT 12+. Tuesday, July 17 2018, 09:30 AM - Tuesday, July 24 2018, 03:00 PM. USD 319.00
Fuel Surcharges USD 35.00
Taxes (Approximate) USD 111.50
TOTAL: USD 465.50
beeweel15 wrote:jmdc861 wrote:AA will be downgrading the MIA-BGI route to the Max 8 as well I must say the A321 was a vast improvement over the 757 with the IFE the inflight wifi does not work much after the Bahamas.It also works out to around 2500 seats less in a year this coupled with the basic economy I can see a lot of Bajans shifting to B6.
The problem with B6 to South Florida (Fort Lauderdale) is that they leave BGI at 630am. 430am Check-in ?! Give me a break!
Thats a great time. Get into FLL before noon is great especially for connections. What will be better as someone mentioned a turn around is a 11pm or mid night departure to BGI arriving at 0430am departing at 0630am back to FLL that give passengers especially traders to get a full day shopping then leave FLL by mid night.
303dk wrote:LIAT is announcing their return to STT this week. Must have figured out the customs/TSA issues
303dk wrote:xdlx wrote:The only way Seaborne could resemble the shadow of Executive.... is to go beyond 12-16 frames and create a feedstock into SJU.
They also would need international to international visa-free connections. The airport has room to build it, but I don’t see it happening.
xdlx wrote:303dk wrote:xdlx wrote:The only way Seaborne could resemble the shadow of Executive.... is to go beyond 12-16 frames and create a feedstock into SJU.
They also would need international to international visa-free connections. The airport has room to build it, but I don’t see it happening.
SJU could recuperate some of long lost luster if they RE-build the terminal like a mini DXB with an extensive DUTY FREE SHOPPING AREA / VISA FREE CONNECTION HALL
however under current US gov administration that will not happen.
303dk wrote:[url][/url]303dk wrote:LIAT is announcing their return to STT this week. Must have figured out the customs/TSA issues
Details: ANU-STT. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Flights start in June and they got landing fees waived for a year. I assume times won’t be near to when TSA and customs close.