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bevan7
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Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:36 pm

I noticed this photo on the front page.


Does anybody know if these are planes being parked for the holidays or are they preparing to be scrapped?
 
cpr05
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:36 pm

Scrapped. They are all 737 classic series aircraft. Southwest removed them all for service when they received their first 737 MAX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
tomaheath
Posts: 640
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:02 pm

How long did they have the winglets installed? Couldn’t of been too long.
 
audidudi
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:07 pm

There are even four that got repainted! They must have been in bad shape to have needed that, and then get retired! And sixteen in this photo alone have winglets!
 
tomaheath
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:09 pm

I thought all the 300s got winglets?
 
zanl188
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:17 pm

Some of Southwest's retired 733s have gone on to other operators, these may as well.
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:30 pm

tomaheath wrote:
How long did they have the winglets installed? Couldn’t of been too long.

WN first start installing winglets on the 733 in 2007, so some had them for a while.
 
Runway28L
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:22 pm

Arizona One :crying:
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:42 pm

Worth remembering, folks, that WN retired all their 737 Classics regardless of condition in order to introduce the 737 MAX while still having only one pilot group, as the FAA will not permit a pilot to be simultaneously current on the Classic, NG, and MAX.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:48 pm

Curious, what is the FAA reasoning behind this, information overload?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
USAOZ
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:51 pm

Wow. Any life left in these birds ?

Would they be a good starting fleet for a startup outside of usa?
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9307
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:00 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Curious, what is the FAA reasoning behind this, information overload?


There was no training program authored to instruct pilots on the differences between the 737 Classics and the 737 MAX. No certification program = no certified pilots.

Demand for Classic-to-MAX training would have been extremely limited. Southwest had already decided they would retire the Classics in 2017 due to the fuel tank inerting requirement which became mandatory in December 2017. Rather than operate mixed pilot pools, they just proceeded to retire the Classics a few months early.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
USAOZ
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:08 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Curious, what is the FAA reasoning behind this, information overload?


There was no training program authored to instruct pilots on the differences between the 737 Classics and the 737 MAX. No certification program = no certified pilots.

Demand for Classic-to-MAX training would have been extremely limited. Southwest had already decided they would retire the Classics in 2017 due to the fuel tank inerting requirement which became mandatory in December 2017. Rather than operate mixed pilot pools, they just proceeded to retire the Classics a few months early.
what's the fuel tank issue ?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:21 pm

cpr05 wrote:
Scrapped. They are all 737 classic series aircraft. Southwest removed them all for service when they received their first 737 MAX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I expect that some will be sold, especially the 600 series (i.e., N650SW, which is currently parked at TUS but for onward sale to Nigeria's Max Air, which is adding narrow-body capacity) that WN received new; WN had some 737-300s newer than their oldest 737-700s (Southwest has line #1 of the 737 NG series). The 300 series (i.e., N352SW, the original Lone Star One, which was 26 years old when parked) or any planes acquired from the merger with Morris Air, are only good for part-out.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:46 pm

USAOZ wrote:
what's the fuel tank issue ?


https://info.aersale.com/why-overspend- ... gI_L_D_BwE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inerting_system

Today, you will learn the word, "ullage".
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:54 pm

audidudi wrote:
There are even four that got repainted! They must have been in bad shape to have needed that, and then get retired! And sixteen in this photo alone have winglets!


Looks like all of the birds in the photo have winglets.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:22 pm

That’s a shame that the FAA wouldn’t allow triple cross trained crews. Had Boeing known this maybe they would have upgraded the MAX flight deck into the 20th century. What a piece of junk when it comes to flight deck technology.

Boeing have used Southwests requirement for commonality as an excuse to do basically nothing in terms of flight deck advancements. A spinning trim wheel still?!? What a joke.

And I’m a Boeing fan.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:49 pm

Their noisy, whiny flaps will be missed!

Was there a similar issue regarding pilots being current on the DC9-MD80-717 for Delta after they acquired the 717s? Or I’m guessing the DC9 and MD80 were close enough or nearly identical.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
That’s a shame that the FAA wouldn’t allow triple cross trained crews. Had Boeing known this maybe they would have upgraded the MAX flight deck into the 20th century. What a piece of junk when it comes to flight deck technology.

Boeing have used Southwests requirement for commonality as an excuse to do basically nothing in terms of flight deck advancements. A spinning trim wheel still?!? What a joke.


The FAA didn't prohibit cross-training. Boeing elected not to develop a training program for Classic and MAX operation because customers weren't demand for one. The FAA can't certify something that doesn't exist. Boeing won't develop something customers don't want. Customers won't ask for something they don't need.

And replacing the 737NG flight deck arrangement with the 787-style four widescreen displays counts as basically nothing?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
AviationAddict
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:07 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
Their noisy, whiny flaps will be missed!

Was there a similar issue regarding pilots being current on the DC9-MD80-717 for Delta after they acquired the 717s? Or I’m guessing the DC9 and MD80 were close enough or nearly identical.


I could be wrong but weren't the DC-9s already gone by the time the 717s started rolling in? If not there wasn't much of a crossover.
 
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Polot
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Their noisy, whiny flaps will be missed!

Was there a similar issue regarding pilots being current on the DC9-MD80-717 for Delta after they acquired the 717s? Or I’m guessing the DC9 and MD80 were close enough or nearly identical.


I could be wrong but weren't the DC-9s already gone by the time the 717s started rolling in? If not there wasn't much of a crossover.

IIRC the 717 pilots at DL are a separate group from the MD88/MD90 (which use a common group).
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:33 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
That’s a shame that the FAA wouldn’t allow triple cross trained crews. Had Boeing known this maybe they would have upgraded the MAX flight deck into the 20th century. What a piece of junk when it comes to flight deck technology.

Boeing have used Southwests requirement for commonality as an excuse to do basically nothing in terms of flight deck advancements. A spinning trim wheel still?!? What a joke.


The FAA didn't prohibit cross-training. Boeing elected not to develop a training program for Classic and MAX operation because customers weren't demand for one. The FAA can't certify something that doesn't exist. Boeing won't develop something customers don't want. Customers won't ask for something they don't need.

And replacing the 737NG flight deck arrangement with the 787-style four widescreen displays counts as basically nothing?


The big displays? Who cares. It’s cheaper is all. I hate the saying but it’s lipstick on a pig. It’s systems lack of an EICAS makes it no different than before. They put the bare minimum into this and that’s a massive shame.

Don’t get me wrong I’m the biggest pro Boeing guy out there but this MAX is a half assed reply to a better product. And their actions against BBD are as two faced as it gets. They’ve become the big fat bully that’s now become the playground suck crying “unfair” to anyone who will listen.

It will be a great plane for airlines but anyone flying them up front is totally underwhelmed.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
727200
Posts: 633
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:59 am

Uh, the guys up front learn on 152s and 172s. They may complain because it doesn't have a few extra bells and whistles, but I have not seen any of them sending their paychecks back because its an issue.
 
kabq737
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:06 am

Polot wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Their noisy, whiny flaps will be missed!

Was there a similar issue regarding pilots being current on the DC9-MD80-717 for Delta after they acquired the 717s? Or I’m guessing the DC9 and MD80 were close enough or nearly identical.


I could be wrong but weren't the DC-9s already gone by the time the 717s started rolling in? If not there wasn't much of a crossover.

IIRC the 717 pilots at DL are a separate group from the MD88/MD90 (which use a common group).

Yes the 717 is a separate pilot group from the MD88/MD90.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
kaitak744
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:47 am

Basically, in the U.S., no carrier can operate an aircraft without the fuel tank innerting system past 2017. Southwest (and Alaska) chose to not do a retrofit on the classics. Same reason why United and Delta chose to retire the 747s before the end of 2017.

These aircraft may have life left, but no-one in the U.S. will operate them. (I don't believe the FAA ruling on the fuel tank retrofit would apply in other countries)
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:57 am

I also understand that the addition of winglets caused a bending moment change in the wing of classic 737s which lead to spar cracking. Any truth to that??
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
Planesmart
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:04 am

kaitak744 wrote:
Basically, in the U.S., no carrier can operate an aircraft without the fuel tank innerting system past 2017. Southwest (and Alaska) chose to not do a retrofit on the classics. Same reason why United and Delta chose to retire the 747s before the end of 2017.

These aircraft may have life left, but no-one in the U.S. will operate them. (I don't believe the FAA ruling on the fuel tank retrofit would apply in other countries)

These aircraft may have a life remaining for internal flights within third world countries, where self-insuring.

But as far as reputable financiers, leasors and insurers are concerned, they have probably flown their last commercial flight, unless modified.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:28 am

ACCS300 wrote:
audidudi wrote:
There are even four that got repainted! They must have been in bad shape to have needed that, and then get retired! And sixteen in this photo alone have winglets!


Looks like all of the birds in the photo have winglets.


The 90 or so 733s that survived WN's first wave of retirements received winglets.

AviationAddict wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Their noisy, whiny flaps will be missed!

Was there a similar issue regarding pilots being current on the DC9-MD80-717 for Delta after they acquired the 717s? Or I’m guessing the DC9 and MD80 were close enough or nearly identical.


I could be wrong but weren't the DC-9s already gone by the time the 717s started rolling in? If not there wasn't much of a crossover.


As I recall, there was about a year between the first 717s arriving and the last D95s retiring.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:48 am

tomaheath wrote:
How long did they have the winglets installed? Couldn’t of been too long.



73G's from southwest have had winglets for a long time. The put them on all of the ones the were operating long term. Only reason the fleet was retired was because FAA would not let Boeing create a common pilot rating for the -Classic, Next Gen & Max. Either classic & NG or NG & Max. with so few -300's left having a second set of crew just for them was not worth the cost.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:53 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
cpr05 wrote:
Scrapped. They are all 737 classic series aircraft. Southwest removed them all for service when they received their first 737 MAX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I expect that some will be sold, especially the 600 series (i.e., N650SW, which is currently parked at TUS but for onward sale to Nigeria's Max Air, which is adding narrow-body capacity) that WN received new; WN had some 737-300s newer than their oldest 737-700s (Southwest has line #1 of the 737 NG series). The 300 series (i.e., N352SW, the original Lone Star One, which was 26 years old when parked) or any planes acquired from the merger with Morris Air, are only good for part-out.


Southwest operated -500 & -700 classics. They never ordered or operated -600's as the only -500's they had were fairly new when the -600 came out ad seat mile cost ment -700 was better for them due to slim seat mile cost difference. Same reason others did not order the -600.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:57 am

AviationAddict wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Their noisy, whiny flaps will be missed!

Was there a similar issue regarding pilots being current on the DC9-MD80-717 for Delta after they acquired the 717s? Or I’m guessing the DC9 and MD80 were close enough or nearly identical.


I could be wrong but weren't the DC-9s already gone by the time the 717s started rolling in? If not there wasn't much of a crossover.


I think they got a few before the DC-9's were gone. But the DC-9 had to go at end of year due to noise limits. So even if they needed them they had to use other fleet times temporarily. Not sure though.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:01 am

Planesmart wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Basically, in the U.S., no carrier can operate an aircraft without the fuel tank innerting system past 2017. Southwest (and Alaska) chose to not do a retrofit on the classics. Same reason why United and Delta chose to retire the 747s before the end of 2017.

These aircraft may have life left, but no-one in the U.S. will operate them. (I don't believe the FAA ruling on the fuel tank retrofit would apply in other countries)

These aircraft may have a life remaining for internal flights within third world countries, where self-insuring.

But as far as reputable financiers, leasors and insurers are concerned, they have probably flown their last commercial flight, unless modified.


There was a note in a article I saw that some were being sold and the operator was going to install the fuel system before delivery.
 
N757ST
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:27 am

rbavfan wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
cpr05 wrote:
Scrapped. They are all 737 classic series aircraft. Southwest removed them all for service when they received their first 737 MAX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I expect that some will be sold, especially the 600 series (i.e., N650SW, which is currently parked at TUS but for onward sale to Nigeria's Max Air, which is adding narrow-body capacity) that WN received new; WN had some 737-300s newer than their oldest 737-700s (Southwest has line #1 of the 737 NG series). The 300 series (i.e., N352SW, the original Lone Star One, which was 26 years old when parked) or any planes acquired from the merger with Morris Air, are only good for part-out.


Southwest operated -500 & -700 classics. They never ordered or operated -600's as the only -500's they had were fairly new when the -600 came out ad seat mile cost ment -700 was better for them due to slim seat mile cost difference. Same reason others did not order the -600.


He meant tail numbers. Airlines often group tail numbers together by certain characteristics. For example at Jetblue a 500xx tail is generally an original CRT A320 (with some exceptions) a 600xx tail is an A320 enhanced, a 700xx had recaro seats, almost 800xx are wingletted, and 900xx+ are a321s.
 
SWApilotfarmer
Posts: 26
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:28 am

rbavfan wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
cpr05 wrote:
Scrapped. They are all 737 classic series aircraft. Southwest removed them all for service when they received their first 737 MAX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I expect that some will be sold, especially the 600 series (i.e., N650SW, which is currently parked at TUS but for onward sale to Nigeria's Max Air, which is adding narrow-body capacity) that WN received new; WN had some 737-300s newer than their oldest 737-700s (Southwest has line #1 of the 737 NG series). The 300 series (i.e., N352SW, the original Lone Star One, which was 26 years old when parked) or any planes acquired from the merger with Morris Air, are only good for part-out.


Southwest operated -500 & -700 classics. They never ordered or operated -600's as the only -500's they had were fairly new when the -600 came out ad seat mile cost ment -700 was better for them due to slim seat mile cost difference. Same reason others did not order the -600.



When he said 600 series he is talking about the tail numbers. All of our 300’s were either N3**** or N6****.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:39 am

rbavfan wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Basically, in the U.S., no carrier can operate an aircraft without the fuel tank innerting system past 2017. Southwest (and Alaska) chose to not do a retrofit on the classics. Same reason why United and Delta chose to retire the 747s before the end of 2017.

These aircraft may have life left, but no-one in the U.S. will operate them. (I don't believe the FAA ruling on the fuel tank retrofit would apply in other countries)

These aircraft may have a life remaining for internal flights within third world countries, where self-insuring.

But as far as reputable financiers, leasors and insurers are concerned, they have probably flown their last commercial flight, unless modified.


There was a note in a article I saw that some were being sold and the operator was going to install the fuel system before delivery.


Max Air purchased 3 of them and the retrofit has to happen.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4454
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:56 am

A question; one of my friends saw a 737 in the Southwest livery at Naples, Italy a few days ago. Does anyone know the identity of that aircraft? (no idea where it was going to)
First to fly the 787-9
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:37 pm

zkojq wrote:
A question; one of my friends saw a 737 in the Southwest livery at Naples, Italy a few days ago. Does anyone know the identity of that aircraft? (no idea where it was going to)


Could be former N650SW headed to Nigeria. Likely ferry is TUS-BGR-KEF-(somewhere in the UK)-NAP-LOS-KAN
 
737max8
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:09 pm

Remember some of these are leases and won't be going anywhere. You could probably take this same photo in a couple years.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
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zkojq
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Re: Southwest Planes parked or scrapping?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:27 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
A question; one of my friends saw a 737 in the Southwest livery at Naples, Italy a few days ago. Does anyone know the identity of that aircraft? (no idea where it was going to)


Could be former N650SW headed to Nigeria. Likely ferry is TUS-BGR-KEF-(somewhere in the UK)-NAP-LOS-KAN



Thank you!
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