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adamblang
Posts: 1472
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:40 pm

fun2fly wrote:
So what happens when you sell 214 diamond seats and you only have 183 IPTE?

Anecdotally, ORD-LHR seems like a market where if United could fly a smaller plane or if they could fly two flights a day they would. But there is no smaller plane, they've got Heathrow slots to protect, and they've gotta compete with AA/BA's schedule. Each flight yesterday went out with 15-20 unsold seats (including seats that were filled by non-revs). I'm not sure selling 214 seats and only ending up with 183 is that big a problem – the flights don't seem like it sells out often and, if they do, I'd assign the small aircraft to the first flight and ask/pay/force the other passengers onto the next two flights that should have enough open seats to accommodate the affected passengers.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:39 pm

adamblang wrote:
Anecdotally, ORD-LHR seems like a market where if United could fly a smaller plane or if they could fly two flights a day they would. But there is no smaller plane, they've got Heathrow slots to protect, and they've gotta compete with AA/BA's schedule. Each flight yesterday went out with 15-20 unsold seats (including seats that were filled by non-revs). I'm not sure selling 214 seats and only ending up with 183 is that big a problem – the flights don't seem like it sells out often and, if they do, I'd assign the small aircraft to the first flight and ask/pay/force the other passengers onto the next two flights that should have enough open seats to accommodate the affected passengers.


Are you stating both AA and BA's flights went out completely full, no nonrevs were accomodiated? (I'm joking)

It actually use to be and still can be a big problem which is one of the reasons why UA roped off the 3 cabin 767's as early as they did to certain markets. Without the rope off an aircraft swap could result in 31 people without a seat. I believe now we only have 1 (3 cabin) frame left in the fleet this aircraft flies a route similar to this IAH-ORD-LHR-ORD-IAH, or ORD-LHR-ORD. To keep from having so many over sells during this entire process UA restricted the capacity on all ORD-LHR-ORD flights to the capacity of the 3 cabin aircraft which is 183, this is do to the fact a 3 cabin aircraft can still show up on any one of our 3 ORD-LHR-ORD flights. This current policy does bode well for nonrevs however it is temporary. Restricting the total number of sell-able seats to the 3 cabin capacity insures UA will never run into a problem where a 2 cabin 763 goes out of service and is replaced with a 3 cabin which would then result in 31 passenger being dis-serviced. In today's environment with the power of social media UA would suffer another black eye if we didn't institute the rope off policy followed by the restricting the sell-able seats to 183 v.s 214.
Looking at a seat map only tells you what you want to see it doesn't tell you the whole story.

Also on a little side note what some people may or may not know if you last minute upguage a flight to LHR you can't just sell the flight to capacity, you have to first be granted permission from the airport authority at LHR to sell any remaining seats. Take for example UA918 which is a 77E , if UA knows next week they intend to upguage the 77E to a 77W they can't sell any of those additional seats until they are granted approval to do so by LHR's airport authority. If you are not granted permission you are restricted to the capacity of the original equipment this also applies to the 76C v.s. 76N (those are UA's internal codes for 3 cabin v.s. 2 cabin).
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1746
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:42 am

jayunited wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Anecdotally, ORD-LHR seems like a market where if United could fly a smaller plane or if they could fly two flights a day they would. But there is no smaller plane, they've got Heathrow slots to protect, and they've gotta compete with AA/BA's schedule. Each flight yesterday went out with 15-20 unsold seats (including seats that were filled by non-revs). I'm not sure selling 214 seats and only ending up with 183 is that big a problem – the flights don't seem like it sells out often and, if they do, I'd assign the small aircraft to the first flight and ask/pay/force the other passengers onto the next two flights that should have enough open seats to accommodate the affected passengers.


Are you stating both AA and BA's flights went out completely full, no nonrevs were accomodiated? (I'm joking)

It actually use to be and still can be a big problem which is one of the reasons why UA roped off the 3 cabin 767's as early as they did to certain markets. Without the rope off an aircraft swap could result in 31 people without a seat. I believe now we only have 1 (3 cabin) frame left in the fleet this aircraft flies a route similar to this IAH-ORD-LHR-ORD-IAH, or ORD-LHR-ORD. To keep from having so many over sells during this entire process UA restricted the capacity on all ORD-LHR-ORD flights to the capacity of the 3 cabin aircraft which is 183, this is do to the fact a 3 cabin aircraft can still show up on any one of our 3 ORD-LHR-ORD flights. This current policy does bode well for nonrevs however it is temporary. Restricting the total number of sell-able seats to the 3 cabin capacity insures UA will never run into a problem where a 2 cabin 763 goes out of service and is replaced with a 3 cabin which would then result in 31 passenger being dis-serviced. In today's environment with the power of social media UA would suffer another black eye if we didn't institute the rope off policy followed by the restricting the sell-able seats to 183 v.s 214.
Looking at a seat map only tells you what you want to see it doesn't tell you the whole story.

Also on a little side note what some people may or may not know if you last minute upguage a flight to LHR you can't just sell the flight to capacity, you have to first be granted permission from the airport authority at LHR to sell any remaining seats. Take for example UA918 which is a 77E , if UA knows next week they intend to upguage the 77E to a 77W they can't sell any of those additional seats until they are granted approval to do so by LHR's airport authority. If you are not granted permission you are restricted to the capacity of the original equipment this also applies to the 76C v.s. 76N (those are UA's internal codes for 3 cabin v.s. 2 cabin).


Phenomenal insight. Thanks for this information. The latter fact on LHR extra seats further puts operations at LHR at a financial disadvantage if you can't sell a few extra seats to help offset the operating costs. I guess it would be better to transfer that a/c to another TATL route that night that you could sell the seats into.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2069
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:34 am

jayunited wrote:
To keep from having so many over sells during this entire process UA restricted the capacity on all ORD-LHR-ORD flights to the capacity of the 3 cabin aircraft which is 183, this is do to the fact a 3 cabin aircraft can still show up on any one of our 3 ORD-LHR-ORD flights. This current policy does bode well for nonrevs however it is temporary.


On the other hand, UA (revenue) Y passengers have a much greater chance of having an empty seat next to them, especially in the 3-across center section. That would make for a rather favorable experience on board.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:21 am

fun2fly wrote:
Phenomenal insight. Thanks for this information. The latter fact on LHR extra seats further puts operations at LHR at a financial disadvantage if you can't sell a few extra seats to help offset the operating costs. I guess it would be better to transfer that a/c to another TATL route that night that you could sell the seats into.


I had no idea until I started working at Willis Tower the amount of control the British government has over LHR.

Right now UA's ORD-LHR-ORD routes are authorized up to the capacity of UA's 76C's (or 3 cabin aircraft), regardless to what the seat map shows on United.com or on the app our internal computers still show all three flights operating as 76C's even though we only have one 3 cabin 763 left in the fleet. Once this final 76C leave for HKG for reconfiguration UA will need update the total passenger capacity for these 3 slots with whoever is in charge at LHR and officially apply for a permanent upguage to the 76N which accommodates a total of 214 passengers. Once approval is received UA can then sell all 214 seats however until then UA has to apply for approval for each of the 3 flights if we want to load more than 183 passengers on UA958, UA931, UA938.

Lets say for example UA wanted to permanently upguage UA931 from a 763 to a 77W, although UA has the slot, LHR may come back and say we can't accommodate 366 passengers arriving at 8:30am however we can accommodate the additional passengers on UA958 which is scheduled to arrive at 5:55am. Just because you have a slot at LHR doesn't necessarily mean you can fly any aircraft you want whenever you want. Once your application is approved if you send an aircraft that has a higher seating capacity than what is on file you must first receive approval from LHR to sell those additional seats. As far as I know there is no other airport in Europe that exerts this type of control.
 
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Amwest2United
Posts: 294
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:05 am

jayunited wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Phenomenal insight. Thanks for this information. The latter fact on LHR extra seats further puts operations at LHR at a financial disadvantage if you can't sell a few extra seats to help offset the operating costs. I guess it would be better to transfer that a/c to another TATL route that night that you could sell the seats into.


I had no idea until I started working at Willis Tower the amount of control the British government has over LHR.

Right now UA's ORD-LHR-ORD routes are authorized up to the capacity of UA's 76C's (or 3 cabin aircraft), regardless to what the seat map shows on United.com or on the app our internal computers still show all three flights operating as 76C's even though we only have one 3 cabin 763 left in the fleet. Once this final 76C leave for HKG for reconfiguration UA will need update the total passenger capacity for these 3 slots with whoever is in charge at LHR and officially apply for a permanent upguage to the 76N which accommodates a total of 214 passengers. Once approval is received UA can then sell all 214 seats however until then UA has to apply for approval for each of the 3 flights if we want to load more than 183 passengers on UA958, UA931, UA938.

Lets say for example UA wanted to permanently upguage UA931 from a 763 to a 77W, although UA has the slot, LHR may come back and say we can't accommodate 366 passengers arriving at 8:30am however we can accommodate the additional passengers on UA958 which is scheduled to arrive at 5:55am. Just because you have a slot at LHR doesn't necessarily mean you can fly any aircraft you want whenever you want. Once your application is approved if you send an aircraft that has a higher seating capacity than what is on file you must first receive approval from LHR to sell those additional seats. As far as I know there is no other airport in Europe that exerts this type of control.


Great information, I was about to type the same thing, it is not just LHR, same issue with many cities in Europe, when they were using a 777-300 as a spare in ORD, many times, they were not allowed to fill the aircraft, even with Non-Revenue, they still had to respect the original aircraft seating configuration. Now, sometimes the different cities would allow them to operate full, but not that often. The return from Europe never seemed to be an issue with going full.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:49 am

Amwest2United wrote:
jayunited wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Phenomenal insight. Thanks for this information. The latter fact on LHR extra seats further puts operations at LHR at a financial disadvantage if you can't sell a few extra seats to help offset the operating costs. I guess it would be better to transfer that a/c to another TATL route that night that you could sell the seats into.


I had no idea until I started working at Willis Tower the amount of control the British government has over LHR.

Right now UA's ORD-LHR-ORD routes are authorized up to the capacity of UA's 76C's (or 3 cabin aircraft), regardless to what the seat map shows on United.com or on the app our internal computers still show all three flights operating as 76C's even though we only have one 3 cabin 763 left in the fleet. Once this final 76C leave for HKG for reconfiguration UA will need update the total passenger capacity for these 3 slots with whoever is in charge at LHR and officially apply for a permanent upguage to the 76N which accommodates a total of 214 passengers. Once approval is received UA can then sell all 214 seats however until then UA has to apply for approval for each of the 3 flights if we want to load more than 183 passengers on UA958, UA931, UA938.

Lets say for example UA wanted to permanently upguage UA931 from a 763 to a 77W, although UA has the slot, LHR may come back and say we can't accommodate 366 passengers arriving at 8:30am however we can accommodate the additional passengers on UA958 which is scheduled to arrive at 5:55am. Just because you have a slot at LHR doesn't necessarily mean you can fly any aircraft you want whenever you want. Once your application is approved if you send an aircraft that has a higher seating capacity than what is on file you must first receive approval from LHR to sell those additional seats. As far as I know there is no other airport in Europe that exerts this type of control.


Great information, I was about to type the same thing, it is not just LHR, same issue with many cities in Europe, when they were using a 777-300 as a spare in ORD, many times, they were not allowed to fill the aircraft, even with Non-Revenue, they still had to respect the original aircraft seating configuration. Now, sometimes the different cities would allow them to operate full, but not that often. The return from Europe never seemed to be an issue with going full.


Exactly coming out of LHR to the U.S. you are free to sell out the entire aircraft no approval needed from government entities here in the U.S.
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:21 pm

Anyone have an update on when the 3 E135s will finally exit the fleet?
 
77H
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:26 pm

xxcr wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
763
N647UA is currently showing ‘taxing to runway’ for UA2799 HKGHNL... appears N641UA will take its place.



UA could make money with these flights. Why do they leave HKG empty? is it to avoid any headaches that may come up with MX?


The post-maintainence ferry out of HKG don’t carrry passengers but are often full of cargo. While the revenue generated doesn’t make money per se, it certainly lessens the financial impact of flying an empty WB across the Pacific.

77H
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:41 pm

I’m about to get on a 767 to Geneva from EWR. The old BF seats I’m sure. Really wondering where those true Polaris 767’s are flying? It seems like most premium heavy TATL are 764’s?
Do true Polaris 767’s ever fly from IAD?
 
splitterz
Posts: 205
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:25 pm

VC10er wrote:
I’m about to get on a 767 to Geneva from EWR. The old BF seats I’m sure. Really wondering where those true Polaris 767’s are flying? It seems like most premium heavy TATL are 764’s?
Do true Polaris 767’s ever fly from IAD?


Yes, IAD does along with ORD, EWR, and IAH. They fly pretty much wherever a 763 flies for UA.
 
United1
Posts: 4294
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:32 pm

VC10er wrote:
I’m about to get on a 767 to Geneva from EWR. The old BF seats I’m sure. Really wondering where those true Polaris 767’s are flying? It seems like most premium heavy TATL are 764’s?
Do true Polaris 767’s ever fly from IAD?


They rotate around the system...I was on one from AMS-ORD last week. As they have the same capacity as the Diamond seat ones UA doesn't restrict them to any particular route.
 
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CALTECH
Posts: 3535
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:46 pm

iahcsr wrote:
xxcr wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
These craft arrive and depart HKG not passenger ready. All service items (galley equipment, medical emergency items, safety cards,etc) everything not part of structure, are removed, replaced in HNL.
Given this particular flight is now delayed 18 hours...so far... for Mx doesn’t help either.


i'm assuming the plane leaves HNL as a revenue flight then? or is it still a ferry flight?

Still a ferry. Keep in mind it’s fairly normal for aircraft coming out of such heavy maintenance work to have a number of lingering gremlins to sort out. Given there is absolutely no guarantee the aircraft will be ready by a specific day and time It best not to complicate matters by adding passengers into the mix. Freight and cargo now might be a different matter... that I don’t know about.


All maintenance gripes usually are addressed with a test hop out of the Chinese bases to which the aircraft returns.
A ETOPS Verification Flight must be performed before performing a revenue ETOPS flight to the mainland, i.e. HNL-SFO, HNL-LAX. Verification flights can be conducted on any non-revenue flight, a maintenance test flight, a non-ETOPS revenue flight, ETOPS verification flights may be conducted during the first sixty minutes of an ETOPS revenue flight, but the APU needs cold soaking for 2 hours before a APU start is attempted for ETOPS.

mcg wrote:
adamblang wrote:
A thread over on FlyerTalk says these United aircraft have channel 9 in the seatback entertainment:

sUA 777-200ERs
sCO 777-200ERs
sUA 777-300ERs
sUA 777-200As
sUA 767-300ERs
sCO 767-400ERs
sUA 757-200


The last four times I've asked the FA's to ask the pilots to turn on Ch. 9, the FA's have gone away to ask and then reported back to me that the pilots said 'no'.


You can blame your fellow passengers for that. Posting misinformed information on social media and possible DOT Complaint inquiries have ruined it for everyone........
Not worth the hassle.......
 
CapitalAvGeek
Posts: 120
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:59 am

VC10er wrote:
I’m about to get on a 767 to Geneva from EWR. The old BF seats I’m sure. Really wondering where those true Polaris 767’s are flying? It seems like most premium heavy TATL are 764’s?
Do true Polaris 767’s ever fly from IAD?

I was wondering myself if any destinations saw the Polaris 763's significantly more than others, so I calculated the data below. It shows the number of times a route has seen a Polaris 763 in the past 75 days and the percentage of times it appeared. The data should have minimal to no error, but I cannot guarantee it is a 100% correct. It makes it a little hard to compare when some routes only see the 763 for shorter than 75 days, but those routes are noted below and accounted for in the percentages. Over the course of the past 75 days, on average there is a 32% chance of a certain route being flown on a Polaris 767. Of coarse the percentage was lower in the beginning of the summer and is now higher, but this is just the average. I did not include ORD-IAH, IAH-ORD, ORD-LHR and LHR-ORD because previous posters have said these routes are often flown on the few first class 763s left. The routes that stick out to me with few Polaris flown 767s are EWR-FCO, ORD-AMS, ORD-CDG, CDG-ORD and IAD-GRU. On the other-hand, IAH-GRU, IAD-MAD, MAD-IAD all see the Polaris 767 abnormally high. EWR-FCO, ORD-CDG, CDG-CDG are all being flown on a 763 in August and September only and IAD-MAD and MAD-IAD only being flown on a 763 in July, so it might just be that the sample size is still too small. Both GRU routes listed previously are slightly below or above normal in seeing a Polaris 763, but I think it has something to do with aircraft often being routed IAD-GRU-IAH or IAH-GRU-IAD. Overall, it seems fairly random which routes get a Polaris 763.

IAD-AMS 27 36.0%
AMS-IAD 22 29.3%
IAD-GVA 25 33.3%
GVA-IAD 24 32.0%
IAD-BCN 28 37.3%
BCN-IAD 27 36.0%
IAD-FCO 26 34.7%
FCO-IAD 23 30.7%
IAD-MAD 13 43.3% (July only)
MAD-IAD 12 40.0% (July only)
IAD-GRU 18 24.0%
GRU-IAD 28 37.3%
IAD-HNL 18 27.7% (non-daily in September)
HNL-IAD 18 27.7% (non-daily in September)
IAD-IAH 17 37.8% (August and September only)
IAH-IAD 15 33.3% (August and September only)
EWR-AMS 6 40.0% (September only)
AMS-EWR 5 33.3% (September only)
EWR-LIS 20 33.3% (July and August only)
LIS-EWR 21 35.0% (July and August only)
EWR-MUC 25 33.3%
MUC-EWR 21 28.0%
EWR-GVA 21 28.0%
GVA-EWR 24 32.0%
EWR-LHR 19 31.7%
LHR-EWR 19 31.7% (July and August only)
EWR-VCE 26 34.7% (July and August only)
VCE-EWR 26 34.7%
EWR-FCO 9 20.0% (August and September only)
FCO-EWR 13 28.9% (August and September only)
EWR-IAH 29 38.7%
IAH-EWR 26 34.7%
IAH-GIG 28 37.3%
GIG-IAH 28 37.3%
IAH-GRU 30 40.0%
GRU-IAH 21 28.0%
IAH-LIM 25 33.3%
LIM-IAH 25 33.3%
IAH-MUC 23 30.7%
MUC-IAH 27 36.0%
IAH-SCL 23 30.7%
SCL-IAH 24 32.0%
ORD-AMS 17 22.7%
AMS-ORD 19 25.3%
ORD-BRU 4 26.7% (September only)
BRU-ORD 4 26.7% (September only)
ORD-CDG 10 22.2% (August and September only)
CDG-ORD 10 22.2% (August and September only)
ORD-FCO 22 29.3%
FCO-ORD 20 26.7%
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:24 am

Whoops - found your note about excluding ORD. While I think the route has been proportionately under filled with Polaris birds, there have been some assigned.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 733
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:01 am

splitterz wrote:
VC10er wrote:
I’m about to get on a 767 to Geneva from EWR. The old BF seats I’m sure. Really wondering where those true Polaris 767’s are flying? It seems like most premium heavy TATL are 764’s?
Do true Polaris 767’s ever fly from IAD?


Yes, IAD does along with ORD, EWR, and IAH. They fly pretty much wherever a 763 flies for UA.



Pretty much,

I was returning from South America and was mulling connecting via LIM, which I noticed had the “real” Polaris seats on the 763 LIM-IAH. So they are popping up all over.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4325
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:33 am

Just landed and got to my hotel. Funny how easily spoiled people can get. I was bummed not getting a true Polaris 763 to GVA, but frankly it was almost perfect. The guy next to me NEVER reclined to a bed seat the whole way, we were in row 1, I was in 1F, so getting up and going to the lav twice was easy and I didn’t bother him. The bed is very comfortable and I slept like the dead in blissful harmony with the engines. The SECOND the pilot winds down I wake up as if a loud alarm clock went off. It’s bizarre how the engine vibration lulls me to sleep- better than at home.
The new (glass-like) plastic glasses UA are using before push back are REALLY NICE! No thin blue plastic disposal cups.
Service was splendid.
The 763, as usual, was packed full.
No wonder they are making money these days. My Polaris (BF) ticket was $8,800!!!
I got to the airport very early to enjoy the Polaris Lounge at EWR. It is crazy beautiful (IMHO), the food was spectacular, the single rest rooms are beautiful and the “quiet room” was great. (Although I don’t find the non-adjustable lounge chair comfortable. It should go more flat.
The thing that really stuck out was the view out of the enormous windows, many 767s/772s, it could really be time to update that livery- the Polaris Lounge and the old CO tail simply don’t go together, (IMHO)
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3372
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:33 pm

772:
N775UA (Domestic/Hawaii unit) entered HKG 2782/18Sep for maint

​​​​​​​Expect N791UA to exit soon based on entry date for Polaris.  Typhoon could have delayed work.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2231
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:05 pm

VC10er wrote:
...The thing that really stuck out was the view out of the enormous windows, many 767s/772s, it could really be time to update that livery- the Polaris Lounge and the old CO tail simply don’t go together, (IMHO)


Still pining for the tulip or something else? For the record, I think a new brand and paint scheme is in order, too. Or at the very least, an update to the current (CO original) one.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4325
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:51 am

FlyHossD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
...The thing that really stuck out was the view out of the enormous windows, many 767s/772s, it could really be time to update that livery- the Polaris Lounge and the old CO tail simply don’t go together, (IMHO)


Still pining for the tulip or something else? For the record, I think a new brand and paint scheme is in order, too. Or at the very least, an update to the current (CO original) one.


Sadly I think bringing back the tulip would be a mistake at this point- and THAT is coming from a HUGE tulip fan. They killed the tulip dead. Sometimes you can pound on the chest and give mouth to mouth and bring someone dead back, but it’s been gone too long and it would now signal the wrong thing to the world at large (IMHO) backwards, not forwards. Although I’m all for a 787-10 with Saul Bass tulip livery as a retro plane- maybe another in Saul Bass meatball Continental to keep things “even”

But I think there is a beautiful update waiting in the wings if 2 things happen: 1: A fabulous designer does it, 2: United management approves it! And it’s actually point #2 that scares me!

I do have a super BOLD idea that would rock the planet!

Once Polaris is nearly fully done, change United into PanAm! Have Oscar and his train buddies broker a deal to get the name and logo back from the current owner- and bring the most loved airline in the USA (and the world) back! Not another start up, just “PanAm is back with a huge modern fleet and route system” just switch the current globe for the timeless PanAm globe! Lol
(In my dreams!)
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1673
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:58 pm

VC10er wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
...The thing that really stuck out was the view out of the enormous windows, many 767s/772s, it could really be time to update that livery- the Polaris Lounge and the old CO tail simply don’t go together, (IMHO)


Still pining for the tulip or something else? For the record, I think a new brand and paint scheme is in order, too. Or at the very least, an update to the current (CO original) one.


Sadly I think bringing back the tulip would be a mistake at this point- and THAT is coming from a HUGE tulip fan. They killed the tulip dead. Sometimes you can pound on the chest and give mouth to mouth and bring someone dead back, but it’s been gone too long and it would now signal the wrong thing to the world at large (IMHO) backwards, not forwards. Although I’m all for a 787-10 with Saul Bass tulip livery as a retro plane- maybe another in Saul Bass meatball Continental to keep things “even”

But I think there is a beautiful update waiting in the wings if 2 things happen: 1: A fabulous designer does it, 2: United management approves it! And it’s actually point #2 that scares me!

I agree. Though I think there's still life in the globe logo, if paired with an updated livery, but if it's not going to be the globe for continuity, it should be something entirely new without the us vs them baggage that comes with it. Your point number 2 scares me particularly since Scott Kirby came from American, in my opinion, the world's ugliest livery. And all the complaining of the entire airline staff couldn't make them change their minds about it.
 
The777Man
Posts: 6151
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:15 pm

I'm all for a Globe logo but a full globe like World Airways had or a more modern version of TW's twin globe. I don't like the belly of the aircraft grey but just paint in same colors as the tail and it will great!

The777Man
 
tpaewr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:58 pm

VC10er wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
...The thing that really stuck out was the view out of the enormous windows, many 767s/772s, it could really be time to update that livery- the Polaris Lounge and the old CO tail simply don’t go together, (IMHO)




I do have a super BOLD idea that would rock the planet!

Once Polaris is nearly fully done, change United into PanAm! Have Oscar and his train buddies broker a deal to get the name and logo back from the current owner- and bring the most loved airline in the USA (and the world) back! Not another start up, just “PanAm is back with a huge modern fleet and route system” just switch the current globe for the timeless PanAm globe! Lol
(In my dreams!)




I will agree; I love the PA idea, it is the only option that is neutral (to both sides), classic and iconic. I am sure it will never happen, but it is cool idea.

The biggest arguement against it is Pan Am even deader than the Tulip. The nostalgia is lost on millennials see the Globe logo and think “United” having never known all the airline geek past that is endlessly relived here.
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:20 am

39M
N37507 B1 20Sep RNTMWHBFI Don’t believe it’s been painted yet.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:02 am

iahcsr wrote:
39M
N37507 B1 20Sep RNTMWHBFI Don’t believe it’s been painted yet.


One per month in Oct/Nov/Dec?

Any news on #18 77W delivery in Q4?

Any delays on the 78J due to the hurricane?
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:30 pm

fun2fly wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
39M
N37507 B1 20Sep RNTMWHBFI Don’t believe it’s been painted yet.


One per month in Oct/Nov/Dec?

Any news on #18 77W delivery in Q4?

Any delays on the 78J due to the hurricane?

1) The spacing between them looks about right for that, yes. 2) The list I look at all says ‘unknown customer’ and I don’t know which line# it is, but have to be getting close. 3) N14001 is not scheduled delivery until early November. N17002, on FAL, not till early December so should not be any delays on these two at least.
 
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KVH68
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:21 am

77W

N2135U is having Premium Economy seats installed at SFO
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:53 pm

772:
N76021 was sked to exit HKG maint 180/24Sep , but aircraft went tech and cancelled
N77022 entered HKG 179/22Sep for maint and couldn't pick up for N76021.
Cancellation of flight 180 is the chance UA takes for doing a scheduled flight tradeout out of maint vs. cross ferries.

789:
N27959 entered XMN 2748/15Sep

UAX update reported that includes a boatload of crappy CRJ200s added to the fleet.
E45X:
N14174 is now flying CommutAir for UAX (30th in Fleet)

CR2:
ExpressJet CR2 flying for UAX begins in October, this fleet is just starting to begin preparation. Understand the below ExpressJet aircraft will be based in ORD.
N854AS has left Skywest (UAX), in preparation for transfer to ExpressJet
N877AS has left Skywest (AA) in prep for transfer to ExpressJet
N884AS has left Skywest (UAX) in prep for transfer to ExpressJet
N903EV has left Skywest (UAX) in prep for transfer to ExpressJet
N905EV has left Skywest (UAX) in prep for transfer to ExpressJet
N909EV has left Skywest (AA) in prep for transfer to ExpressJet

More CRJ2:
N435SW (2001 build) has joined the UAX fleet with Skywest (glove livery)
N464SW (2003 build) has joined UAX fleet with Skywest (Globe livery)
N492SW (1997 build) has joined UAX fleet with Skywest (Globe livery)
N465SW (2003 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N466SW (2003 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N494CA (2003 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N652BR (2000 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N709BR (2003 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N863AS (2001 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N866AS (2001 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N874AS (2001 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N876AS (2001 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
N879AS (2002 build) now in floater fleet UA/DL/AA/AS (Skywest livery)
 
iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:57 am

763
N590HA is currently enroute HNLMCI.. presumably to be de-HA-ed as the first step in becoming N665UA. Also presume she will join the other two at GYR until UA is ready to begin induction. Third presumption being they are #2,3,4 in line after N660UA, the last 3 class 76, gets to HKG.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:40 am

iahcsr wrote:
presumably to be de-HA-ed as the first step in becoming N665UA

perhaps just a typo but i believe it is to become N685UA
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3372
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:49 am

772:
N76021 exited HKG 2820/25Sep, after delaying and cancelling 180/24Sep as it wasn't ready
N77022 entered HKG 179/22Sep

789:
​​​​​​​N27959 entered XMN 2748/15Sep
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:46 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
iahcsr wrote:
presumably to be de-HA-ed as the first step in becoming N665UA

perhaps just a typo but i believe it is to become N685UA

You are correct... me and my big thumbs :tongue2: :crazy:
 
splitterz
Posts: 205
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:47 am

A quick shout out to iahcsr, calpsafltskeds, CALTECH, and many others for their on going support of this thread. We all appreciate it.
 
Max Q
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:10 am

VC10er wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
...The thing that really stuck out was the view out of the enormous windows, many 767s/772s, it could really be time to update that livery- the Polaris Lounge and the old CO tail simply don’t go together, (IMHO)


Still pining for the tulip or something else? For the record, I think a new brand and paint scheme is in order, too. Or at the very least, an update to the current (CO original) one.


Sadly I think bringing back the tulip would be a mistake at this point- and THAT is coming from a HUGE tulip fan. They killed the tulip dead. Sometimes you can pound on the chest and give mouth to mouth and bring someone dead back, but it’s been gone too long and it would now signal the wrong thing to the world at large (IMHO) backwards, not forwards. Although I’m all for a 787-10 with Saul Bass tulip livery as a retro plane- maybe another in Saul Bass meatball Continental to keep things “even”

But I think there is a beautiful update waiting in the wings if 2 things happen: 1: A fabulous designer does it, 2: United management approves it! And it’s actually point #2 that scares me!

I do have a super BOLD idea that would rock the planet!

Once Polaris is nearly fully done, change United into PanAm! Have Oscar and his train buddies broker a deal to get the name and logo back from the current owner- and bring the most loved airline in the USA (and the world) back! Not another start up, just “PanAm is back with a huge modern fleet and route system” just switch the current globe for the timeless PanAm globe! Lol
(In my dreams!)




That’s a terrible idea



Renaming a successful, recognized , global powerhouse after one of the airline industries epic failures ?


What about just looking at airlines that
have tried it ?
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1472
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:09 pm

splitterz wrote:
A quick shout out to iahcsr, calpsafltskeds, CALTECH, and many others for their on going support of this thread. We all appreciate it.

Second that. Knowing what's going on in the fleet and the airline makes my job a lot easier.
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:01 pm

adamblang wrote:
splitterz wrote:
A quick shout out to iahcsr, calpsafltskeds, CALTECH, and many others for their on going support of this thread. We all appreciate it.

Second that. Knowing what's going on in the fleet and the airline makes my job a lot easier.

Thank you for including me in that list... but the others deserve much more credit for their contributions. :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:
 
redrooster3
Posts: 395
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:02 am

The "Low Density" 767s (76L) will be placed on ORD/EWR-LHR and EWR-GVA/ZRH routes is what I can see when they get converted. I don't think IAD will see them either.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:21 am

No IAD-LHR means only 11 of 17 76L units would be needed. Add one for a spare (plus there's a lot of time in LHR and EWR already) and what does UA do with another 5 units. Another spare maybe? 4 or 5 floating the system would be an oversale issue waiting to happen. I think IAD-LHR (4 units with more ground time at LHR and IAD) will happen as well. I would think IAD would be the last to get 76L service during conversion.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4325
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:31 am

Max Q wrote:
VC10er wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:

Still pining for the tulip or something else? For the record, I think a new brand and paint scheme is in order, too. Or at the very least, an update to the current (CO original) one.


Sadly I think bringing back the tulip would be a mistake at this point- and THAT is coming from a HUGE tulip fan. They killed the tulip dead. Sometimes you can pound on the chest and give mouth to mouth and bring someone dead back, but it’s been gone too long and it would now signal the wrong thing to the world at large (IMHO) backwards, not forwards. Although I’m all for a 787-10 with Saul Bass tulip livery as a retro plane- maybe another in Saul Bass meatball Continental to keep things “even”

But I think there is a beautiful update waiting in the wings if 2 things happen: 1: A fabulous designer does it, 2: United management approves it! And it’s actually point #2 that scares me!

I do have a super BOLD idea that would rock the planet!

Once Polaris is nearly fully done, change United into PanAm! Have Oscar and his train buddies broker a deal to get the name and logo back from the current owner- and bring the most loved airline in the USA (and the world) back! Not another start up, just “PanAm is back with a huge modern fleet and route system” just switch the current globe for the timeless PanAm globe! Lol
(In my dreams!)




That’s a terrible idea



Renaming a successful, recognized , global powerhouse after one of the airline industries epic failures ?


What about just looking at airlines that
have tried it ?


Ummm....joke!?

(Also every airline that did try it had no fleet to speak of and no alliances to help feed it. They were all Hail Mary’s with a nice logo)
 
VC10er
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:50 pm

xxcr wrote:
Is there a list that shows which plane has the new domestic first class seat?


I love that new Domestic First seat! My rule of thumb is that all Airbus A319/20’s and 73G’s have them.

I know the 757-300 is supposed to get them but I don’t know if that has started yet.

The 737-800/900 do not have them and I have no clue if they will ever get the new Domestic F seat. Some of the 737-800/900 have a “decent” seat. I was on a virtually new 739 with the better version of the older seat yesterday on a 4.5 hour flight. It was comfortable enough. There are some that have a dreadful F seat.

It would be nice if all narrow bodies were consistent, seats, bulkheads and carpet etc. The ex-CZ A319 is really beautiful in comparison- but I’m also sure that refitting all those 737-8/900’s would cost a absolute fortune!
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:16 pm

VC10er wrote:
xxcr wrote:
Is there a list that shows which plane has the new domestic first class seat?


I love that new Domestic First seat! My rule of thumb is that all Airbus A319/20’s and 73G’s have them.

I know the 757-300 is supposed to get them but I don’t know if that has started yet.

The 737-800/900 do not have them and I have no clue if they will ever get the new Domestic F seat. Some of the 737-800/900 have a “decent” seat. I was on a virtually new 739 with the better version of the older seat yesterday on a 4.5 hour flight. It was comfortable enough. There are some that have a dreadful F seat.

It would be nice if all narrow bodies were consistent, seats, bulkheads and carpet etc. The ex-CZ A319 is really beautiful in comparison- but I’m also sure that refitting all those 737-8/900’s would cost a absolute fortune!



I've experience the new domestic F seats once on the A320, Loved it.

i know the A319/320 are done.

73G is done
738-Started the retrofit
739-NA. the new ones are still being delivered with the old seats, but they are new which is good.
753- they started the retrofit
 
codc10
Posts: 3251
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:27 pm

xxcr wrote:
739-NA. the new ones are still being delivered with the old seats, but they are new which is good.


739ER deliveries are finished. All new 737s coming are MAX9/10 which have the new seats. You are correct, however, that more recent 738/9 were delivered with the older generation F seats.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:51 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
The "Low Density" 767s (76L) will be placed on ORD/EWR-LHR and EWR-GVA/ZRH routes is what I can see when they get converted. I don't think IAD will see them either.


I know what UA is going for and the customer they are chasing when they finally reconfigure and place the low density 76Ls on ORD/EWR-LHR. I think the low density configuration is perfect for the winter season because demand in our premium cabin remains strong year around. However during the busy summer season I hope at least one frequency from ORD will be upguaged and perhaps two frequencies from EWR. There is so much tourist traffic during the summer season I'm not sure if these low density 76Ls have enough capacity into a slot restricted airport, unless UA is not concerned about capacity but instead trying to increase yield.

As far as IAD from what I've heard (rumor mill) IAD's 3x flights to LHR will stay the same for now with a 752, 77E, and a 788. In my personal opinion I think at some point IAD will see this aircraft on a fairly regular basis for IAD-GVA/ZRH. I also think the early morning IAD-LHR flight will be upguaged to the 76L once UA has reconfigured enough frames.
 
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FlightLevel360
Posts: 406
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:13 am

VC10er wrote:
xxcr wrote:
Is there a list that shows which plane has the new domestic first class seat?


I love that new Domestic First seat! My rule of thumb is that all Airbus A319/20’s and 73G’s have them.

I know the 757-300 is supposed to get them but I don’t know if that has started yet.

The 737-800/900 do not have them and I have no clue if they will ever get the new Domestic F seat. Some of the 737-800/900 have a “decent” seat. I was on a virtually new 739 with the better version of the older seat yesterday on a 4.5 hour flight. It was comfortable enough. There are some that have a dreadful F seat.

It would be nice if all narrow bodies were consistent, seats, bulkheads and carpet etc. The ex-CZ A319 is really beautiful in comparison- but I’m also sure that refitting all those 737-8/900’s would cost a absolute fortune!


Retrofitted 757-300 does indeed have the new F seat

I have heard once the DirecTV contract expires UA will remove the screens from the 738/739 fleet and retrofit the seats
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1288
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:35 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
xxcr wrote:
Is there a list that shows which plane has the new domestic first class seat?


I love that new Domestic First seat! My rule of thumb is that all Airbus A319/20’s and 73G’s have them.

I know the 757-300 is supposed to get them but I don’t know if that has started yet.

The 737-800/900 do not have them and I have no clue if they will ever get the new Domestic F seat. Some of the 737-800/900 have a “decent” seat. I was on a virtually new 739 with the better version of the older seat yesterday on a 4.5 hour flight. It was comfortable enough. There are some that have a dreadful F seat.

It would be nice if all narrow bodies were consistent, seats, bulkheads and carpet etc. The ex-CZ A319 is really beautiful in comparison- but I’m also sure that refitting all those 737-8/900’s would cost a absolute fortune!


Retrofitted 757-300 does indeed have the new F seat

I have heard once the DirecTV contract expires UA will remove the screens from the 738/739 fleet and retrofit the seats


When does that contract end?
 
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FlightLevel360
Posts: 406
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:09 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
VC10er wrote:

I love that new Domestic First seat! My rule of thumb is that all Airbus A319/20’s and 73G’s have them.

I know the 757-300 is supposed to get them but I don’t know if that has started yet.

The 737-800/900 do not have them and I have no clue if they will ever get the new Domestic F seat. Some of the 737-800/900 have a “decent” seat. I was on a virtually new 739 with the better version of the older seat yesterday on a 4.5 hour flight. It was comfortable enough. There are some that have a dreadful F seat.

It would be nice if all narrow bodies were consistent, seats, bulkheads and carpet etc. The ex-CZ A319 is really beautiful in comparison- but I’m also sure that refitting all those 737-8/900’s would cost a absolute fortune!


Retrofitted 757-300 does indeed have the new F seat

I have heard once the DirecTV contract expires UA will remove the screens from the 738/739 fleet and retrofit the seats


When does that contract end?


Taking a blind guess but I would say around 2022
 
jetero
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:13 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:

Retrofitted 757-300 does indeed have the new F seat

I have heard once the DirecTV contract expires UA will remove the screens from the 738/739 fleet and retrofit the seats


When does that contract end?


Taking a blind guess but I would say around 2022


There are new 73G seats with the TV, no?
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1673
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:59 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:

Retrofitted 757-300 does indeed have the new F seat

I have heard once the DirecTV contract expires UA will remove the screens from the 738/739 fleet and retrofit the seats


When does that contract end?


Taking a blind guess but I would say around 2022

Is the whole airline on one contract, or is it plane by plane, when they were installed?
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3372
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:03 pm

I believe the CTV contract includes all non-international aircraft on the sCO mainline fleet that were added by a certain date.
ATA build 753s aren't included
Copa build 73Gs aren't included
Previous Air Mike 73G/738 units that are now domestic aren't included
New build 738 and 739 units delivered starting in 2013 aren't included.
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1472
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:08 pm

cosyr wrote:
Is the whole airline on one contract, or is it plane by plane, when they were installed?

I don't know that I've ever seen anything publicly published that indicates they're all up on the same day or whether each aircraft has its own clock. That's an interesting question.

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