FSDan
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:40 pm

CONTACREW wrote:
77W will start flying EWR-BOM-EWR effective Oct 27.


Interesting! I was expecting EWR-HKG due to the range...
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CONTACREW
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:58 pm

Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:33 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Any chance that IAH will get any 787 10s on TATL routes

Between their service introduction in a few months and their retirement ~20 years on? Absolutely.
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codc10
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:16 pm

cosyr wrote:
codc10 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

This list when combine with the other suggest UA perhaps will order 11 more 787-10s. We have 14 confirmed but now we are seeing nose numbers for an additional 11 more very interesting. I hope the initial reports on the seat map are wrong, I'm hoping there will be more Polaris seats than what has been reported.


There won’t be. A-Zone is larger on the 787-10 than any of the earlier variants, so UA elected to keep Polaris to a single section rather than add a smaller mini-cabin aft of 2L/R.

Do you have access to a seating chart for the 787-10? I have not seen anything yet, so if you can share, that would be great!


Ask and you shall receive!

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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:24 pm

So with this configuration would the 787-10s be better suited for routes like DUB, BCN, MAD and FCO?
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:26 pm

STT757 wrote:
So with this configuration would the 787-10s be better suited for routes like DUB, BCN, MAD and FCO?

Those and everything South America.
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:59 pm

adamblang wrote:
STT757 wrote:
So with this configuration would the 787-10s be better suited for routes like DUB, BCN, MAD and FCO?

Those and everything South America.


Hopefully by next Summer UA can swap out the domestic 777s on those routes with the 787-10, putting those 777s back on "domestic" routes. I would love to see a regularly scheduled wide body back on EWR-MCO, even if it's only 1-2x daily during the big school holidays ( Christmas, Easter, NJEA etc..). I remember when CO was running 9 daily A300s on EWR-MCO, more recently 10-11 daily 757-300s just before the merger.
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:07 pm

78J with 6430NM range, is only 600NM below the 772ER and 500-800NM better than the 763/764/772A. It probably will not be used to Asia. As for TATL, if the 764 can do EWR-ATH, then the 78J can do flights as long as EWR-TLV, which would cover all TATL flights from the USA, including SFO-FRA.
Moving the 772A to domestic plus HNL-GUM-NRT would go all Polaris on long haul international service, which should be a goal when all Polaris installations are complete.
With good range, it can handle most UA flights and with a higher Y component even be used on something like EWR-HNL or domestic, depending on seasonality, understanding this would use a high quality international aircraft on a domestic run.
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codc10
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:14 pm

44J is still a large cabin; bigger than anything currently flown by DL and short only of AA 77W... OTOH, UA has more J on its (forthcoming) 76L, 789, 772 and 77W, over 100 frames.
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:24 pm

From 37,000 feet on a UA 737-900! I just read a CNN.com article up right now about the A330-900neo. While it speaks mostly of Delta’s order, at the very bottom it says (paraphrasing) “United is also looking at ordering the A330-900neo”
It’s that fantasy or does it have some merit?
As I mentioned earlier the 763 with Polaris is beautiful but a tad tight: can’t help but wonder what the LONG TERM plan is. 788 or perhaps this?
The article shows images of TAPs new A330-900neo, but they are not the most satisfying of pictures, no images of J? But I certainly think think the nose and eyes of the A330 got cooler looking!
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:02 pm

VC10er wrote:
From 37,000 feet on a UA 737-900! I just read a CNN.com article up right now about the A330-900neo. While it speaks mostly of Delta’s order, at the very bottom it says (paraphrasing) “United is also looking at ordering the A330-900neo”
It’s that fantasy or does it have some merit?
As I mentioned earlier the 763 with Polaris is beautiful but a tad tight: can’t help but wonder what the LONG TERM plan is. 788 or perhaps this?
The article shows images of TAPs new A330-900neo, but they are not the most satisfying of pictures, no images of J? But I certainly think think the nose and eyes of the A330 got cooler looking!


I’m sure UA is looking at a lot of things, but the consensus is that they don’t want another fleet type and that the A339 is too much plane to replace the 767.
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:21 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
From 37,000 feet on a UA 737-900! I just read a CNN.com article up right now about the A330-900neo. While it speaks mostly of Delta’s order, at the very bottom it says (paraphrasing) “United is also looking at ordering the A330-900neo”
It’s that fantasy or does it have some merit?
As I mentioned earlier the 763 with Polaris is beautiful but a tad tight: can’t help but wonder what the LONG TERM plan is. 788 or perhaps this?


I’m sure UA is looking at a lot of things, but the consensus is that they don’t want another fleet type and that the A339 is too much plane to replace the 767.

Ditto. United would not be doing their due diligence if they failed to explore their options. The aircraft was in Chicago before flying to Atlanta; obviously it was in Chicago for United to have a look, so that would corroborate United's interest. That said, I would be absolutely floored if they actually placed an order. The only potential replacement would be for the B764, which is still a decade at least from needing replacement, or the B772, which will quite clearly be replaced by the B78J. I don't believe there is a gap in the fleet that needs to be filled by the A339.

VC10er wrote:
The article shows images of TAPs new A330-900neo, but they are not the most satisfying of pictures, no images of J?

It's still a test aircraft, so it's highly doubtful that it has any of TAP's eventual interior fitted. The airplane is still owned by Airbus, and it will be until the test program is completed, and the aircraft is delivered. It's very likely that the interior fittings are for Airbus marketing only. When the test program is finished, they'll remove the testing stations from inside, and probably gut most of the interior. TAP will receive a discount for buying a test aircraft, just as United will for one (or maybe two?) of its B78Js, but no airline would take delivery of a used cabin. If there's so much as a scratch on the seats or a bit of wear on the carpets, the airline is within its right to reject delivery.
 
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iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:17 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
TAP will receive a discount for buying a test aircraft, just as United will for one (or maybe two?) of its B78Js, but no airline would take delivery of a used cabin. If there's so much as a scratch on the seats or a bit of wear on the carpets, the airline is within its right to reject delivery.

Only one, N548ZC, which will become N14001 for UA. SQ gets the other two.
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:27 pm

VC10er wrote:
As I mentioned earlier the 763 with Polaris is beautiful but a tad tight: can’t help but wonder what the LONG TERM plan is. 788 or perhaps this?


Doing a bit of math
777 is 19' 3", two aisles at about 40" total leaves 191" or 47.75 per module (4 per row)
767 is 15' 6" two aisles at about 40" total leaves 146" or 48.7 per module (3 per row)
787 is 18', two aisles at about 40" total leaves 176" or 44 per modules (4 per row).

My guess on possibilities on the 767 seats as indications are the seat should be wider.
1.) middle module takes up more average width than two together
2.) 767 has wider angle on angled seats to get more rows per inch forward to back.

Likely the 787 will have narrower seats, it may depend on the angle of the angles seats - I think every Polaris seat is built for the individual aircraft type, so it's hard to estimate.
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:36 pm

This is a good article about Airbus' attempts to shop the A330neo to DL and UA. Airbus is hoping that the scalability of the aircraft would open it up to more orders.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ce-450013/

United, which is also evaluating replacement options for its 127 757s and 767s, is looking for something firmly in the middle of the market. It already operates 37 787s, including both the -8 and -9, and has ordered 45 Airbus A350-900s to replace some of its 777-200s.

"Our 767 and 757 replacement strategy… it will be a multi-faceted solution," said Gerry Laderman, acting chief financial officer and treasurer of the Chicago-based carrier, told FlightGlobal in a June interview.

A presentation by Laderman earlier in 2018 shows that it is considering an array of aircraft for this need, including the A330neo, 787 and Boeing's proposed New Mid-market Airplane (NMA) for the segment.
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:19 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
VC10er wrote:
As I mentioned earlier the 763 with Polaris is beautiful but a tad tight: can’t help but wonder what the LONG TERM plan is. 788 or perhaps this?


Doing a bit of math
777 is 19' 3", two aisles at about 40" total leaves 191" or 47.75 per module (4 per row)
767 is 15' 6" two aisles at about 40" total leaves 146" or 48.7 per module (3 per row)
787 is 18', two aisles at about 40" total leaves 176" or 44 per modules (4 per row).

My guess on possibilities on the 767 seats as indications are the seat should be wider.
1.) middle module takes up more average width than two together
2.) 767 has wider angle on angled seats to get more rows per inch forward to back.

Likely the 787 will have narrower seats, it may depend on the angle of the angles seats - I think every Polaris seat is built for the individual aircraft type, so it's hard to estimate.

Wow! I didn't realize the 787 was 15" narrower than the 777 when I was looking at that seating chart. I was surprised that they got the same 4 per row as the 777's. I sort of thought they would somehow do some alternating arrangement of 1-2-1 and 1-1-1 in every other row. If they tried to put these seats on an A330, they would really have to make some adjustments. As for the 787, I'm guessing they are eating up aisle space to the absolute minimum width possible.
 
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iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:19 am

"We’ve placed 17 of the 18 aircraft that are part of our first 777-300ER order into service thus far. Click here for answers to frequently asked questions about our new 777-300ER."
This sentence was in today’s UA employee news update. The phrasing ‘our first 777-300ER order’ is intriguing to say the least. I interpret it one of two ways ... which is it ? :scratchchin: :stirthepot:
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ord
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:52 am

What ever happened to the United 787-10 that was supposed to roll out on July 5? Are there any photos?
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:02 am

ord wrote:
What ever happened to the United 787-10 that was supposed to roll out on July 5? Are there any photos?


It did roll out on 5July. It’s one of 8 787s awaiting first flight in Charleston. Delivery not until Nov 1, so no doubt Boeing is in no rush.
 
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iahcsr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 am

UAinAUS wrote:
ord wrote:
What ever happened to the United 787-10 that was supposed to roll out on July 5? Are there any photos?


It did roll out on 5July. It’s one of 8 787s awaiting first flight in Charleston. Delivery not until Nov 1, so no doubt Boeing is in no rush.

Unfortunately don’t get as many photos from CHS as we do PAE
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:31 am

codc10 wrote:
I believe the newly-reconfigured 763s have Channel 9. I haven’t seen it active on any flight in what seems like years, though.


I just flew one of the newly configured 763’s and it does indeed have Channel 9. Had my wife onboard who was thrilled to listen to me on the radios. Wish more of my fellow pilots would step up with making Channe 9 available for all of our customers that really enjoy it.
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:30 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
78J with 6430NM range, is only 600NM below the 772ER and 500-800NM better than the 763/764/772A. It probably will not be used to Asia. As for TATL, if the 764 can do EWR-ATH, then the 78J can do flights as long as EWR-TLV, which would cover all TATL flights from the USA, including SFO-FRA.
Moving the 772A to domestic plus HNL-GUM-NRT would go all Polaris on long haul international service, which should be a goal when all Polaris installations are complete.
With good range, it can handle most UA flights and with a higher Y component even be used on something like EWR-HNL or domestic, depending on seasonality, understanding this would use a high quality international aircraft on a domestic run.


I agree with you this should prove to be a great aircraft for UA and as much as I would love to see a 78J on our long haul domestic routes like EWR-HNL, ORD-HNL, and IAH-HNL I think there is higher degree of probability that UA would move a 77E onto these routes. Although the 77Es don't have nearly as many seats as the 777HDs placing a Polaris 77Es on these routes once we have enough reconfigured would make UA more competitive especially with AA reentering the ORD-HNL market. Even though AA says it seasonal I think by 2020-2021 we could see AA reenter this market on a year around basis and UA will need an aircraft that with an onboard product that is better than the product on the HD 777s.


In other news on Flying Together UA made an interesting comment about the 77Ws they said we have placed 17 of 18 of our 77Ws into service the article goes on to say something about this being the first order. Which got me thinking what did they mean by first order? Is UA in talks with Boeing for more 77Ws? The rumors have been floating around for some time the wording in this article on Flying Together does nothing to clear things up.
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:31 pm

iahcsr wrote:
"We’ve placed 17 of the 18 aircraft that are part of our first 777-300ER order into service thus far. Click here for answers to frequently asked questions about our new 777-300ER."
This sentence was in today’s UA employee news update. The phrasing ‘our first 777-300ER order’ is intriguing to say the least. I interpret it one of two ways ... which is it ?


I thought the the first 14 was the "first order"...
Also, UA doesn't seem to like announcing their fleet plans ahead of time. We already know the registrations of the first 25 B78Js (1001-1025), but UA still claims they only ordered 14!
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:40 pm

763:
N653UA entered MIA maint 2752/5Jul, exited 2762/13Jul
N674UA entered MIA maint 2761/13Jul

788:
N27901 entered FTW paint 2734/10Jul
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:03 am

jayunited wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
78J with 6430NM range, is only 600NM below the 772ER and 500-800NM better than the 763/764/772A. It probably will not be used to Asia. As for TATL, if the 764 can do EWR-ATH, then the 78J can do flights as long as EWR-TLV, which would cover all TATL flights from the USA, including SFO-FRA.
Moving the 772A to domestic plus HNL-GUM-NRT would go all Polaris on long haul international service, which should be a goal when all Polaris installations are complete.
With good range, it can handle most UA flights and with a higher Y component even be used on something like EWR-HNL or domestic, depending on seasonality, understanding this would use a high quality international aircraft on a domestic run.


I agree with you this should prove to be a great aircraft for UA and as much as I would love to see a 78J on our long haul domestic routes like EWR-HNL, ORD-HNL, and IAH-HNL I think there is higher degree of probability that UA would move a 77E onto these routes. Although the 77Es don't have nearly as many seats as the 777HDs placing a Polaris 77Es on these routes once we have enough reconfigured would make UA more competitive especially with AA reentering the ORD-HNL market. Even though AA says it seasonal I think by 2020-2021 we could see AA reenter this market on a year around basis and UA will need an aircraft that with an onboard product that is better than the product on the HD 777s.

Well CO used to fly 764's on those GUM, HNL, NRT routes, so maybe once UA starts retiring 763's, and the 77A's reach the end of their useful life, the 764's will still be at least 5-10 years younger, so they could return to the leisure heavy Pacific routes. CO's fleet with 20J instead of 35 made sense for HNL and GUM, and could also make sense for Spring Break FL routes.
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:38 am

cosyr wrote:
jayunited wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
78J with 6430NM range, is only 600NM below the 772ER and 500-800NM better than the 763/764/772A. It probably will not be used to Asia. As for TATL, if the 764 can do EWR-ATH, then the 78J can do flights as long as EWR-TLV, which would cover all TATL flights from the USA, including SFO-FRA.
Moving the 772A to domestic plus HNL-GUM-NRT would go all Polaris on long haul international service, which should be a goal when all Polaris installations are complete.
With good range, it can handle most UA flights and with a higher Y component even be used on something like EWR-HNL or domestic, depending on seasonality, understanding this would use a high quality international aircraft on a domestic run.


I agree with you this should prove to be a great aircraft for UA and as much as I would love to see a 78J on our long haul domestic routes like EWR-HNL, ORD-HNL, and IAH-HNL I think there is higher degree of probability that UA would move a 77E onto these routes. Although the 77Es don't have nearly as many seats as the 777HDs placing a Polaris 77Es on these routes once we have enough reconfigured would make UA more competitive especially with AA reentering the ORD-HNL market. Even though AA says it seasonal I think by 2020-2021 we could see AA reenter this market on a year around basis and UA will need an aircraft that with an onboard product that is better than the product on the HD 777s.

Well CO used to fly 764's on those GUM, HNL, NRT routes, so maybe once UA starts retiring 763's, and the 77A's reach the end of their useful life, the 764's will still be at least 5-10 years younger, so they could return to the leisure heavy Pacific routes. CO's fleet with 20J instead of 35 made sense for HNL and GUM, and could also make sense for Spring Break FL routes.


Question regarding the 77A/E fleets. My understanding is that cycles, not age generally define an aircraft’s useful life. While the oldest 772s have crossed the 20 year old mark I imagine many have lower cycles given the stage lengths they’ve flown over the years?

Regarding the 77A fleet specifically, UA has carved out a very unique niche for these aircraft that doesn’t seem easily replicated by current aircraft on offer. It seems unlikely UA would devote brand new aircraft to hub-hub/hub-leisure flying. Moving 77Es to those routes would be serious overkill given the large premium cabins. On that note, I’m not sure how UAs 77A would be uncompetitive against AA’s 788 on the ORD-HNL route aside from the new tech of the 787 itself from a consumer perspective?
Both configurations have an identical number of premium seats up front. The main difference would be in the economy cabin. The 788 has far fewer seats and is 3.3.3 vs 3.4.3 on the 77A.

From an internal perspective I wonder which aircraft is the better performer? While the 788 handedly beats the 77A in fuel efficiency it imagine it would be hard pressed to beat the 77A’s HD config in terms of CASM provided its full. The only other thing that comes to mind would be cargo. The 77As in HD config regularly encounter payload restrictions. Flying west bound exasturbates this to the point that UA restricts the ability to book that flight as a cargo customer.

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VC10er
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:55 am

How far ahead is UA now to Hawaii given their latest attempt to “capture” almost all the islands nonstop from so many destinations?
And, how easy would it be for AA or anyone else to replicate UA’s grasp on the market.
Could the 767 become “the” Hawaii monster?
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codc10
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:10 am

VC10er wrote:
How far ahead is UA now to Hawaii given their latest attempt to “capture” almost all the islands nonstop from so many destinations?
And, how easy would it be for AA or anyone else to replicate UA’s grasp on the market.
Could the 767 become “the” Hawaii monster?


UA is still largest in the market, but quite a bit of that capacity growth has already been walked back.

767 could make a comeback in Hawaii, but not any time soon, in any substantial number.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:31 am

Gosh, I’d love to be a fly on the wall in those meetings discussing aircraft choices and for where, how and which...for replacing and growth.

Curious, since the beginning of the year how many incremental ac have been added to revenue flying when the ex CX Airbuses and a few MAX’s arrived?
And how many by end of 2018?
In the news I read an article about UA’s recent great numbers in capacity jump, roughly 7.2 all totaled I believe. Couldn’t help but wonder how much of an impact newly added ac had on those numbers!?
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jayunited
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:16 pm

cosyr wrote:
I agree with you this should prove to be a great aircraft for UA and as much as I would love to see a 78J on our long haul domestic routes like EWR-HNL, ORD-HNL, and IAH-HNL I think there is higher degree of probability that UA would move a 77E onto these routes. Although the 77Es don't have nearly as many seats as the 777HDs placing a Polaris 77Es on these routes once we have enough reconfigured would make UA more competitive especially with AA reentering the ORD-HNL market. Even though AA says it seasonal I think by 2020-2021 we could see AA reenter this market on a year around basis and UA will need an aircraft that with an onboard product that is better than the product on the HD 777s.

Well CO used to fly 764's on those GUM, HNL, NRT routes, so maybe once UA starts retiring 763's, and the 77A's reach the end of their useful life, the 764's will still be at least 5-10 years younger, so they could return to the leisure heavy Pacific routes. CO's fleet with 20J instead of 35 made sense for HNL and GUM, and could also make sense for Spring Break FL routes.[/quote]


Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on the use of the 764 on GUM, HNL. and NRT routes. While sCO may have utilized this aircraft on these routes they did so because they didn't have enough 77E in their fleet. The amount of cargo UA is moving on these 777Hs especially on our HNL-GUM-HNL , HNL-NRT-HNL, and even though GUM-NRT-GUM is currently all 738s UA is moving 7,000 pounds of tuna on all three of our flights almost daily and we many days we are forced to leave other cargo behind. The problem UA faces with the 777HDs on our HNL-GUM-HNL route is weight restrictions caused by the increase in cargo, passengers and bags. Many days this flight has 500, 530, 600 bags and of those 500+ bags at least 200 or more are heavy, 50 or more are excessively heavy. There is no other flight in UA system that sees the total number of bags we are seeing on a daily basis on this route. There is an article that was just released on Flying Together warning nonrevs about this flight because many days many if not all the nonrevs are left behind although a few days ago the pilot order all the cargo to be removed because he wanted the nonrevs on and that caused all sorts of problem and is probably one of the reasons that article was written and clearly states we do not remove revenue cargo for nonrevs. To downguage this route back to a 764 would be a disservice to revenue passengers because there are less seats it would be a disservice to our cargo customers because the 764 can not accommodate the amount of cargo the 777 does. So while this was a route flown by sCO for years on a 764 UA has grown this route both in terms of revenue passengers and revenue cargo to be honest in my opinion neither the 764 or 777HD are the right aircraft because we still end up leaving cargo behind because when you have 600 bags you need 17-18 LD3 to accommodate all those bags I think the perfect aircraft for this route in particular is the 77W. The 77W has the right number of seats just like the 777HDs it can haul massive amounts of cargo and we would be able to accommodate norevs if there are seats available. Don't fault UA just because this route has out grown the 764 and in my opinion its now out grown the 777HD.
 
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:43 pm

codc10 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
How far ahead is UA now to Hawaii given their latest attempt to “capture” almost all the islands nonstop from so many destinations?
And, how easy would it be for AA or anyone else to replicate UA’s grasp on the market.
Could the 767 become “the” Hawaii monster?


UA is still largest in the market, but quite a bit of that capacity growth has already been walked back.

767 could make a comeback in Hawaii, but not any time soon, in any substantial number.


To clarify, UA is the largest carrier (by number of flights/available seats) in the US Mainland-Hawaii Market only, according to last year's figures. While UA offered the most flights and available seats, HA actually carried more passengers in this market segment (higher LF). As one might expect, HA leads the pack when looking at the total Hawaii Market, both domestic and international with UA in a distant second.

Last year UA announced a major expansion in the Hawaii Market to begin ~19Dec2017. For the Winter Holiday peak season UA really pulled out all the stops adding quite a few extra frequencies to the neighbor islands but most notably in the HNL market. If memory serves, SFO-HNL went up to 7 flights/day, 3 of which were operated by the 77A during peak. Perhaps the most surprising service addition was DEN-HNL going double daily during holiday peak, 1x 77A and 1x 752. Unfortunately, after the Winter Holiday peak, a lot of the capacity growth was walked back with slight increases during the spring break time period. There are a few extra segments and some up-gauges being run during the summer period which is typical but come September there are some pretty significant draw downs. Most notably, UA is down-gauging its only LAX-HNL WB flight to a 739ER, SFO-HNL goes from 3x 77A 6 days a week to 2x 77A 4 days a week and 1x 77A the other 3 days. The ORD-OGG WB flight which was supposed to be 5x weekly year-around is going back to the pre-expansion norm of Sat Only.
My understanding is that the 77As a being pulled from the aforementioned flights to cover TATL flying while the 77Es continue to be Polarized, taking advantage of the fact that September through early December is the slow season for Hawaii.

The only airline I see surpassing UA as the dominate carrier in the Mainland-Hawaii market is HA. As for AA, AS, DL or WN matching or surpassing UA's marketshare, I doubt it. For starters, every Hawaiian airport with the exception of ITO is maxed out of gate space with gate holds of up to 45 minutes after arrival becoming the daily norm in HNL.

Lastly, I'm afraid the 767's time in Hawaii is slowly coming to an end. AC is replacing the Rouge 763s with 7M8 equipment in a few months, AA has up-gauged their DFW flights to 77Es from the 763 and HA is slowly retiring theirs. DL is the largest operator of the 767 to Hawaii currently. All their Japan-Hawaii flights are 763s and several of their Mainland flights are operated by 763/4s. JL still sends a 763 or two to HNL daily from NRT and of course UA uses the 763 from IAD and the 764 from EWR.

I think the only chance of a 767 resurgence to/from Hawaii died when Boeing supposedly declined UA's request to re-open the 763 pax line. Even then, unless UA ordered 20-30 examples (assuming some would be used to replace older models) I doubt they would have shown up in a meaningful way to Hawaii.
Typing this up, its sad to think that little over a decade ago it wasn't uncommon to see 7-8 767s lined up at OGG's terminal, even more at HNL.

77H
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:57 pm

When did UA pull the 772A from GUM-NRT? It must be seasonal as 3 738s per day operating now through 10/27/18. 2 RTs per day 772As return on 10/28/18. I owuld guess the aircraft is flying TATL or Domestic flying this summer.
Is there a cargo demand GUM-NRT and how is it being moved today?
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airlineaddict
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:29 pm

jayunited wrote:

The problem UA faces with the 777HDs on our HNL-GUM-HNL route is weight restrictions caused by the increase in cargo, passengers and bags. Many days this flight has 500, 530, 600 bags and of those 500+ bags at least 200 or more are heavy, 50 or more are excessively heavy. There is no other flight in UA system that sees the total number of bags we are seeing on a daily basis on this route.


If UA converted a few 77Es to the HD configuration, would that solve the HNL-GUM-HNL issue?
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:44 pm

airlineaddict wrote:
jayunited wrote:

The problem UA faces with the 777HDs on our HNL-GUM-HNL route is weight restrictions caused by the increase in cargo, passengers and bags. Many days this flight has 500, 530, 600 bags and of those 500+ bags at least 200 or more are heavy, 50 or more are excessively heavy. There is no other flight in UA system that sees the total number of bags we are seeing on a daily basis on this route.


If UA converted a few 77Es to the HD configuration, would that solve the HNL-GUM-HNL issue?


It would essentially mean doubling up the flights on routes like this. I'm not sure the market would support it but its great to see how massive this lift is for the 77A on the route.
 
77H
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:57 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
When did UA pull the 772A from GUM-NRT? It must be seasonal as 3 738s per day operating now through 10/27/18. 2 RTs per day 772As return on 10/28/18. I owuld guess the aircraft is flying TATL or Domestic flying this summer.
Is there a cargo demand GUM-NRT and how is it being moved today?


I believe early March was when 77A pull down started. It was gradual, a few no-ops here and there before becoming all narrowbody. The downgauges were due to a drop in demand by Japanese tourists after the NK government threatened to bomb/nuke Guam.

Cargo demand outbound from GUM isn’t nearly as busy as demand inbound. Unfortunately the 738s on the route now are good for pax baggage and possibly a few 100kgs of mail. Not much else. All the cargo business that was routed on UA via NRT from CONUS that wasn’t lost to the likes of FX/5X is being interlined on one of UAs interline partners, namely JL. The higher yielding, high demand freight is being flown via HNL to GUM, though after mail and bags, there isn’t much weight or space left over.

77H
 
77H
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 pm

jayunited wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I agree with you this should prove to be a great aircraft for UA and as much as I would love to see a 78J on our long haul domestic routes like EWR-HNL, ORD-HNL, and IAH-HNL I think there is higher degree of probability that UA would move a 77E onto these routes. Although the 77Es don't have nearly as many seats as the 777HDs placing a Polaris 77Es on these routes once we have enough reconfigured would make UA more competitive especially with AA reentering the ORD-HNL market. Even though AA says it seasonal I think by 2020-2021 we could see AA reenter this market on a year around basis and UA will need an aircraft that with an onboard product that is better than the product on the HD 777s.

Well CO used to fly 764's on those GUM, HNL, NRT routes, so maybe once UA starts retiring 763's, and the 77A's reach the end of their useful life, the 764's will still be at least 5-10 years younger, so they could return to the leisure heavy Pacific routes. CO's fleet with 20J instead of 35 made sense for HNL and GUM, and could also make sense for Spring Break FL routes.



Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on the use of the 764 on GUM, HNL. and NRT routes. While sCO may have utilized this aircraft on these routes they did so because they didn't have enough 77E in their fleet. The amount of cargo UA is moving on these 777Hs especially on our HNL-GUM-HNL , HNL-NRT-HNL, and even though GUM-NRT-GUM is currently all 738s UA is moving 7,000 pounds of tuna on all three of our flights almost daily and we many days we are forced to leave other cargo behind. The problem UA faces with the 777HDs on our HNL-GUM-HNL route is weight restrictions caused by the increase in cargo, passengers and bags. Many days this flight has 500, 530, 600 bags and of those 500+ bags at least 200 or more are heavy, 50 or more are excessively heavy. There is no other flight in UA system that sees the total number of bags we are seeing on a daily basis on this route. There is an article that was just released on Flying Together warning nonrevs about this flight because many days many if not all the nonrevs are left behind although a few days ago the pilot order all the cargo to be removed because he wanted the nonrevs on and that caused all sorts of problem and is probably one of the reasons that article was written and clearly states we do not remove revenue cargo for nonrevs. To downguage this route back to a 764 would be a disservice to revenue passengers because there are less seats it would be a disservice to our cargo customers because the 764 can not accommodate the amount of cargo the 777 does. So while this was a route flown by sCO for years on a 764 UA has grown this route both in terms of revenue passengers and revenue cargo to be honest in my opinion neither the 764 or 777HD are the right aircraft because we still end up leaving cargo behind because when you have 600 bags you need 17-18 LD3 to accommodate all those bags I think the perfect aircraft for this route in particular is the 77W. The 77W has the right number of seats just like the 777HDs it can haul massive amounts of cargo and we would be able to accommodate norevs if there are seats available. Don't fault UA just because this route has out grown the 764 and in my opinion its now out grown the 777HD.[/quote]

I was completely unaware a pilot ordered cargo off-loaded. Was that out of HNL? I’m sure he/she is in some serious hot water. Beyond the thousands of dollars in revenue left sitting on the ramp a move like that could cost UA the mail contract worth millions.

That being said, I’m not sure I agree with you that the HD 77A is not the right aircraft for the HNL-GUM route. The 77E and 77Ws are FAR too premium heavy for that route. If the 77E/W were put on the route I’d wager 80% of the premium seats would be non-revs which represents a huge loss in potential revenue that could be made flying them on routes with premium demand.

As for cargo, the weight restrictions and limited space after accounting for passenger bags is oddly enough as much a blessing as a curse. Coupled with the fact that UA is the only US airline offering daily service to GUM the limited payload/space available on that flight allows UA to charge quite a premium. Rates in excess of $6/pound are not unheard of.

My understanding is that the GUM-HNL leg is not nearly as full down below as HNL-GUM and the struggles being experienced on that flight are in large part due to the downgauge of the NRT-GUM WBs that we’re carrying the majority of cargo into GUM. One they come back into the schedule things will normalize.

77H
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:17 pm

77H wrote:
I was completely unaware a pilot ordered cargo off-loaded. Was that out of HNL? I’m sure he/she is in some serious hot water. Beyond the thousands of dollars in revenue left sitting on the ramp a move like that could cost UA the mail contract worth millions.

That being said, I’m not sure I agree with you that the HD 77A is not the right aircraft for the HNL-GUM route. The 77E and 77Ws are FAR too premium heavy for that route. If the 77E/W were put on the route I’d wager 80% of the premium seats would be non-revs which represents a huge loss in potential revenue that could be made flying them on routes with premium demand.

As for cargo, the weight restrictions and limited space after accounting for passenger bags is oddly enough as much a blessing as a curse. Coupled with the fact that UA is the only US airline offering daily service to GUM the limited payload/space available on that flight allows UA to charge quite a premium. Rates in excess of $6/pound are not unheard of.

My understanding is that the GUM-HNL leg is not nearly as full down below as HNL-GUM and the struggles being experienced on that flight are in large part due to the downgauge of the NRT-GUM WBs that we’re carrying the majority of cargo into GUM. One they come back into the schedule things will normalize.

77H


Yes it is interesting when you get into reading these reports to make it clear no UA pilot has or would ever compromise safety to accommodate nonrevs. But this isn't the first time a pilot has ordered the removal of cargo because he/she wanted to accommodate the nonrevs and the only way to do this was holding off the cargo. You will be surprised at the number of people who know pilots and will call that pilot when they are being held off a flight for a weight restriction. Pilots will call dispatchers to have them come up with a different route, cut tanker fuel, ask or in some cases order people to have cargo held off the aircraft among other things. One of the things pilots love to do when they order the cargo remove is to tell people "this is my aircraft" so at that point you don't argue you just do what has been requested or ordered and let the FODM deal it with after the fact. All though I'm not 100% positive why UA put that article in Flying Together warning nonrevs about HNL-GUM weight restrictions it may have something to do with the removal of the revenue cargo to load nonrevs and that as you said cost UA a lot of money.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:09 pm

13 of the 19 772A units are older than all 772E units, but only by about 3 years. In service 1995/96, other 6 are 2000 build.

If the 772As were removed from the fleet, a 772ER configuration with 32 Polaris (remove BF behind Door 2 from new Polaris configuration) would seem to make sense for probably some less heavy premium markets. That would include EWR-DUB/BCN/MAD as well as domestic flying the 772A now serves and Hawaiian CASM could make sense. The removal of 18 BF would equal about 80 Y seats on the 772ER, giving something close to a 32BF/322Y configuration.
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hoya
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:20 pm

77H wrote:
codc10 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
How far ahead is UA now to Hawaii given their latest attempt to “capture” almost all the islands nonstop from so many destinations?
And, how easy would it be for AA or anyone else to replicate UA’s grasp on the market.
Could the 767 become “the” Hawaii monster?


UA is still largest in the market, but quite a bit of that capacity growth has already been walked back.

767 could make a comeback in Hawaii, but not any time soon, in any substantial number.


To clarify, UA is the largest carrier (by number of flights/available seats) in the US Mainland-Hawaii Market only, according to last year's figures. While UA offered the most flights and available seats, HA actually carried more passengers in this market segment (higher LF). As one might expect, HA leads the pack when looking at the total Hawaii Market, both domestic and international with UA in a distant second.

Last year UA announced a major expansion in the Hawaii Market to begin ~19Dec2017. For the Winter Holiday peak season UA really pulled out all the stops adding quite a few extra frequencies to the neighbor islands but most notably in the HNL market. If memory serves, SFO-HNL went up to 7 flights/day, 3 of which were operated by the 77A during peak. Perhaps the most surprising service addition was DEN-HNL going double daily during holiday peak, 1x 77A and 1x 752. Unfortunately, after the Winter Holiday peak, a lot of the capacity growth was walked back with slight increases during the spring break time period. There are a few extra segments and some up-gauges being run during the summer period which is typical but come September there are some pretty significant draw downs. Most notably, UA is down-gauging its only LAX-HNL WB flight to a 739ER, SFO-HNL goes from 3x 77A 6 days a week to 2x 77A 4 days a week and 1x 77A the other 3 days. The ORD-OGG WB flight which was supposed to be 5x weekly year-around is going back to the pre-expansion norm of Sat Only.
My understanding is that the 77As a being pulled from the aforementioned flights to cover TATL flying while the 77Es continue to be Polarized, taking advantage of the fact that September through early December is the slow season for Hawaii.

The only airline I see surpassing UA as the dominate carrier in the Mainland-Hawaii market is HA. As for AA, AS, DL or WN matching or surpassing UA's marketshare, I doubt it. For starters, every Hawaiian airport with the exception of ITO is maxed out of gate space with gate holds of up to 45 minutes after arrival becoming the daily norm in HNL.

Lastly, I'm afraid the 767's time in Hawaii is slowly coming to an end. AC is replacing the Rouge 763s with 7M8 equipment in a few months, AA has up-gauged their DFW flights to 77Es from the 763 and HA is slowly retiring theirs. DL is the largest operator of the 767 to Hawaii currently. All their Japan-Hawaii flights are 763s and several of their Mainland flights are operated by 763/4s. JL still sends a 763 or two to HNL daily from NRT and of course UA uses the 763 from IAD and the 764 from EWR.

I think the only chance of a 767 resurgence to/from Hawaii died when Boeing supposedly declined UA's request to re-open the 763 pax line. Even then, unless UA ordered 20-30 examples (assuming some would be used to replace older models) I doubt they would have shown up in a meaningful way to Hawaii.
Typing this up, its sad to think that little over a decade ago it wasn't uncommon to see 7-8 767s lined up at OGG's terminal, even more at HNL.

77H


A couple corrections/notes. SFO-HNL is 5x daily this summer, with 6x on Saturdays and Sundays; 3 of those trips are on 777s (one is 6x weekly). SFO-HNL will remain at 5x daily through the Fall, but with 2 of those flights on a 777 daily. Not sure where you see days where there's only 1 777 flight. Also, while ORD-OGG does go back to Sat-only for the fall, the route didn't operate in September last year, so there is some growth in that market, though that's only 4 or so new roundtrips. UA's big Hawaii growth was focused on getting all the DEN-Hawaii routes daily (LIH, OGG, KOA) year-round, and that remains.
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77H
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:02 pm

hoya wrote:
77H wrote:
codc10 wrote:

UA is still largest in the market, but quite a bit of that capacity growth has already been walked back.

767 could make a comeback in Hawaii, but not any time soon, in any substantial number.


To clarify, UA is the largest carrier (by number of flights/available seats) in the US Mainland-Hawaii Market only, according to last year's figures. While UA offered the most flights and available seats, HA actually carried more passengers in this market segment (higher LF). As one might expect, HA leads the pack when looking at the total Hawaii Market, both domestic and international with UA in a distant second.

Last year UA announced a major expansion in the Hawaii Market to begin ~19Dec2017. For the Winter Holiday peak season UA really pulled out all the stops adding quite a few extra frequencies to the neighbor islands but most notably in the HNL market. If memory serves, SFO-HNL went up to 7 flights/day, 3 of which were operated by the 77A during peak. Perhaps the most surprising service addition was DEN-HNL going double daily during holiday peak, 1x 77A and 1x 752. Unfortunately, after the Winter Holiday peak, a lot of the capacity growth was walked back with slight increases during the spring break time period. There are a few extra segments and some up-gauges being run during the summer period which is typical but come September there are some pretty significant draw downs. Most notably, UA is down-gauging its only LAX-HNL WB flight to a 739ER, SFO-HNL goes from 3x 77A 6 days a week to 2x 77A 4 days a week and 1x 77A the other 3 days. The ORD-OGG WB flight which was supposed to be 5x weekly year-around is going back to the pre-expansion norm of Sat Only.
My understanding is that the 77As a being pulled from the aforementioned flights to cover TATL flying while the 77Es continue to be Polarized, taking advantage of the fact that September through early December is the slow season for Hawaii.

The only airline I see surpassing UA as the dominate carrier in the Mainland-Hawaii market is HA. As for AA, AS, DL or WN matching or surpassing UA's marketshare, I doubt it. For starters, every Hawaiian airport with the exception of ITO is maxed out of gate space with gate holds of up to 45 minutes after arrival becoming the daily norm in HNL.

Lastly, I'm afraid the 767's time in Hawaii is slowly coming to an end. AC is replacing the Rouge 763s with 7M8 equipment in a few months, AA has up-gauged their DFW flights to 77Es from the 763 and HA is slowly retiring theirs. DL is the largest operator of the 767 to Hawaii currently. All their Japan-Hawaii flights are 763s and several of their Mainland flights are operated by 763/4s. JL still sends a 763 or two to HNL daily from NRT and of course UA uses the 763 from IAD and the 764 from EWR.

I think the only chance of a 767 resurgence to/from Hawaii died when Boeing supposedly declined UA's request to re-open the 763 pax line. Even then, unless UA ordered 20-30 examples (assuming some would be used to replace older models) I doubt they would have shown up in a meaningful way to Hawaii.
Typing this up, its sad to think that little over a decade ago it wasn't uncommon to see 7-8 767s lined up at OGG's terminal, even more at HNL.

77H


A couple corrections/notes. SFO-HNL is 5x daily this summer, with 6x on Saturdays and Sundays; 3 of those trips are on 777s (one is 6x weekly). SFO-HNL will remain at 5x daily through the Fall, but with 2 of those flights on a 777 daily. Not sure where you see days where there's only 1 777 flight. Also, while ORD-OGG does go back to Sat-only for the fall, the route didn't operate in September last year, so there is some growth in that market, though that's only 4 or so new roundtrips. UA's big Hawaii growth was focused on getting all the DEN-Hawaii routes daily (LIH, OGG, KOA) year-round, and that remains.


Currently UA1175 from SFO operates as a 77A except D2. Every other day 1175/300/1509 are 77As. In September 1509 switches from a 77A to a 739. If I remember correctly, the number of days 1175 operates as a 77A decreases. On those days I believe 300 is the only WB flight. I’ll have to look at fleet plan to confirm.

As for ORD-OGG, it was only increased 5x weekly in December’17 as part of that expansion but was announced as 5x weekly year-around.

As I explained, it’s likely the reduction in 77A flying in the HI market is likely a result of UA using them to cover 77E routes during the polarization process.

77H
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:00 pm

Thought: it “seems” like creating the HD 772’s with the old UA international business class bed seat was a good idea. (when I first heard of it I was really surprised that those backwards/forwards seats would find new life in this era) however I’ve been on them and they aren’t bad.
While UA is combing the world for A319/20’s and 767’s couldn’t they also find used 772A’s to add to the fleet of 19?
- more F bed seats on domestic hub to hub (good thing)
- 772 cargo capacity (good thing)
- Polaris refit stand ins (if the got them fast enough)
- Great charter ac I’d assume (I bet they could fill ‘em up to Ireland etc, paint them in a Guinness black & tan!)

Perhaps all the backwards/forwards seats that were salvaged are used up? Because they are old seats do they have maintenance issues? (The didn’t manufacture new ones, did they?) Therefore another seat type would be required- but inconsistency is the last thing UA needs. On that note: I was pleasantly surprised to see what great condition those old seats were in. The 3 times I’ve been on the HD777 in F 3 (while I HATE the lack of storage), it is actually a VERY comfortable bed seat and nice looking IMHO. The silver shells match the new silver color palate (all the need is a bit of purple, hehe)

Basically what I’m saying is I actually like the HD777 for certain missions (though NOT for full Polaris fare to Europe) but hub-to-hub or Hawaii, etc, I think they are great. (Does Delta or AA have a similarly configured HD aircraft too for similar use?)
Wouldn’t used 772s be fairly easy to find?

Last: Can someone help me by explaining a “nonrev?” I think I know what a nonrev pax is, but not entirely sure. Award fliers are not considered “nonrevs” correct? Are nonrevs employees or “family of” only using a perk- or does a FA living in Miami need to “nonrev” to get to work a flight out of another city? Never knew how they pull that off...I knew a UA FA who lived in Salt Lake City, but would fly to EWR or IAH to fly GRU/EZE. Seems awfully risky that they would sometimes miss the flight they had to work?
Apologies for my skitzo post!
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george77300
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:31 pm

VC10er wrote:
Thought: it “seems” like creating the HD 772’s with the old UA international business class bed seat was a good idea. (when I first heard of it I was really surprised that those backwards/forwards seats would find new life in this era) however I’ve been on them and they aren’t bad.
While UA is combing the world for A319/20’s and 767’s couldn’t they also find used 772A’s to add to the fleet of 19?
- more F bed seats on domestic hub to hub (good thing)
- 772 cargo capacity (good thing)
- Polaris refit stand ins (if the got them fast enough)
- Great charter ac I’d assume (I bet they could fill ‘em up to Ireland etc, paint them in a Guinness black & tan!)

Perhaps all the backwards/forwards seats that were salvaged are used up? Because they are old seats do they have maintenance issues? (The didn’t manufacture new ones, did they?) Therefore another seat type would be required- but inconsistency is the last thing UA needs. On that note: I was pleasantly surprised to see what great condition those old seats were in. The 3 times I’ve been on the HD777 in F 3 (while I HATE the lack of storage), it is actually a VERY comfortable bed seat and nice looking IMHO. The silver shells match the new silver color palate (all the need is a bit of purple, hehe)

Basically what I’m saying is I actually like the HD777 for certain missions (though NOT for full Polaris fare to Europe) but hub-to-hub or Hawaii, etc, I think they are great. (Does Delta or AA have a similarly configured HD aircraft too for similar use?)
Wouldn’t used 772s be fairly easy to find?

Last: Can someone help me by explaining a “nonrev?” I think I know what a nonrev pax is, but not entirely sure. Award fliers are not considered “nonrevs” correct? Are nonrevs employees or “family of” only using a perk- or does a FA living in Miami need to “nonrev” to get to work a flight out of another city? Never knew how they pull that off...I knew a UA FA who lived in Salt Lake City, but would fly to EWR or IAH to fly GRU/EZE. Seems awfully risky that they would sometimes miss the flight they had to work?
Apologies for my skitzo post!


I can’t answer most but non revs are not award tickets. It’s when usually crew/family of travel for free on what’s usually a standby ticket. So if the plane has a empty seat they can fly and if not they can’t. Completely no revenue for airline. I assume this is the case for United as well.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388

B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788

AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8

BA EI EK EY FR GT H3 IG JQ KX PG PW QF QR SQ TG TP UA U2 VK VS WS WY ZB 8P
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:18 pm

After the 772HD conversion was complete, there are/were 34 sUA 772s getting Polaris, which would provide enough seats for about 40 sets of seats for HD version aircraft. Most 772A units produced are split between Active, Stored and Scrapped. The vast majority were produced before 2003. UAs are 1995/96 plus 6 built in 2000.
UA would want the same engines and low cycles. Many of these aircraft have been running in shorter haul operations and could be in worn condition. There are many stored and some are a few years younger than the oldest UA aircraft, but maybe they wouldn't be up to par.
Nonrevs are almost always employees, retirees and family of employees. They mostly travel on their airlines, but can get free or reduced travel on other carriers depending on agreements. Nonrevs also include crew that could be on positive space travel to position for trips they will work.
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1989worstyear
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:42 pm

I know I've asked this several times before - but when is the first quarter-century A320 supposed to leave the fleet?

Other threads have given unclear answers, but they all seem to indicate "well after 2025". Should we expect the first ones to leave around 2030 or so? The design hasn't changed since November of 1988 but is still the most efficient NB out there due to generational ineptitude - so why should they bother until they cycle out?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:11 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
I know I've asked this several times before - but when is the first quarter-century A320 supposed to leave the fleet?

Other threads have given unclear answers, but they all seem to indicate "well after 2025". Should we expect the first ones to leave around 2030 or so? The design hasn't changed since November of 1988 but is still the most efficient NB out there due to generational ineptitude - so why should they bother until they cycle out?


Wow. These are the most uncomfortable aircraft in United's fleet, and they are thinking of keeping them for THAT long?! Also I believe the 737NG is slightly more efficient (though uses some older technology) as it is more aerodynamic.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:18 am

Are we still on track for a big fleet announcement tomorrow?
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george77300
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:55 am

intotheair wrote:
Are we still on track for a big fleet announcement tomorrow?


Possibly. They did just announce a tiny top up 4 x B789
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fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:58 am

george77300 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Are we still on track for a big fleet announcement tomorrow?


Possibly. They did just announce a tiny top up 4 x B789


Since this was done a bit ago and listed on the Boeing website, do you think this are related to the rumored 4x 77W order and they just converted it to 789's? Seems odd for this to come out now, especially with the expectation that there will be 10+ more 78J's.

Also interesting to note the 25 E175's being added. How many mainline need to be added to allow that?
 
george77300
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Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:31 pm

fun2fly wrote:
george77300 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Are we still on track for a big fleet announcement tomorrow?


Possibly. They did just announce a tiny top up 4 x B789


Since this was done a bit ago and listed on the Boeing website, do you think this are related to the rumored 4x 77W order and they just converted it to 789's? Seems odd for this to come out now, especially with the expectation that there will be 10+ more 78J's.

Also interesting to note the 25 E175's being added. How many mainline need to be added to allow that?


Not sure but being operated as 70 seaters not 76 has been confirmed for a reason to do with that.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388

B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788

AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8

BA EI EK EY FR GT H3 IG JQ KX PG PW QF QR SQ TG TP UA U2 VK VS WS WY ZB 8P
 
airlineaddict
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Re: United Fleet Upgrade Status - 2018

Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:33 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
airlineaddict wrote:
jayunited wrote:

The problem UA faces with the 777HDs on our HNL-GUM-HNL route is weight restrictions caused by the increase in cargo, passengers and bags. Many days this flight has 500, 530, 600 bags and of those 500+ bags at least 200 or more are heavy, 50 or more are excessively heavy. There is no other flight in UA system that sees the total number of bags we are seeing on a daily basis on this route.


If UA converted a few 77Es to the HD configuration, would that solve the HNL-GUM-HNL issue?


It would essentially mean doubling up the flights on routes like this. I'm not sure the market would support it but its great to see how massive this lift is for the 77A on the route.


Sorry, I should have been more specific. What are the MTOW differences between the 77A and the 77E? It feels like a 77W would be overkill on HNL-GUM.

(Assuming there’s meaningful difference in pax/cargo capability) Aside from HNL-GUM, are there other routes that could use a 77E-HD vs a 77A-HD?

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